Go to expressvpn.com/lazerzz and find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free! Ultimately, I don't hate this game, I actually really do appreciate lots of it, and in a general consumer sense I'd say I had a good time with it, it concluded well and was maybe they best they could've done under the circumstances... But that's my totally uncritical take, if a "take" is all you're looking for. If you're looking for a real deep dive into what this game did and didn't do on a very critical level then join me for this video. (Timestamps in the description).
Do a 2 hour video for the 2018 game to because u can find alot of things wrong with that one as well in story and combat even more than ragnarok if u want to criticize a sequel do one for the first game
@@lewispooper3138 losing goty to elden ring does not make other games trash elden ring is one of the greatest games ever made thats the kind of game u want to lose to I don’t think any game ever would of beat elden ring for goty
The part at the start that states "it's getting harder to critique each year because people make franchises their entire personality" is painfully true and can be seen in these very comments.
@@Rakka5 if you’re spending 2 hours trying to pick at such tiny straws so specifically in order to explain why a game isn’t as good as people say…. Chances are, the game is as good as everyone says. Lol.
@@Gungrave123 just a Xbot coping lol. Why aren’t you playing Redfall right now man??? Heard that game is fantastic!🤭 and I have a lot of faith in Starfield. Those guys at Bethesda know what they’re doing. Lol
Yeah, the chat comments are hilarious. You gotta love the people that pop in just to spout some vague platitudes about criticism to invalidate other people's opinions.
Because light hearted Marvel writing and humor is beloved by the mainstream audience, that the GoW reboot clearly wants to cater to. It was already present in the first game, but they turned it up a notch in Ragnarok.
Wheres ur review of ragnarok bro? Like a real review. A review like this one. I unsubbed from jon ford bc he shills for ragnarok like no other. Glad u dont shill like he does.
@God Incarnate seriously tho bro. That man boot licks to infinity and beyond. 😂 he turned off his comments on his part 1 playthrough bc ppl were exposing that his reaction was fake. He literally quoted thor telling kratos "i say when were done" 😬😬😬 it was some of the most cringe shit ever! 😂😂 i got 2nd hand embarrassment from watching.
Oh look at u. This isn't your comment section so u cant hide my comment this time. You took CookingKratos video then created generic, regurgitated, bad faith arguments to make your video look original. Example: "odin throws his raven but not to distract freya" "listen to how odin says NO when mugin dies" WHAT!?!? 🤦🤦🤦 maaaaaan *GeeeeeeeeeTFOH!* You know thats KAP! KAP! The least u could have done was give cooking kratos credit. You Kapn ass youtuber
My biggest issue is the Norse Pantheon being such a downgrade of antagonist compared to the Greek Gods. Took only two games for Kratos to deal with this mid pantheon of gods, but the action choreography was smooth though. The fight with Zeus was way more grand compared to the Odin fight
Bc this story is about relationships between ppl in families. It`s very character based so they had to bring the number of characters compared to the original trilogy
@@SSJKDotsSanctum Exactly. People justifying the lame ass action sequences in a franchise literally known for its grand spectacle and scale with reasons like "but it's character driven and there's growth". Every piece of modern fiction is so obsessed with this idea of faux growth. Every character needs a sob backstory to feel "relatable". Well no. I'm playing a game of Gods. I'll expect something bold in writing and world-shaking in presentation. Ragnarok failed massively on both accounts. Gow 3 was a bigger ragnarok than Ragnarok ever was.
@@lordiblees Honestly as fun as the mechanics of GoW 3 were it was far less imaginative with its characters. Its Greek Pantheon were basically predictable caricatures of those gods, especially in 3, they were cardboard cutouts for the most part. That was okay for that game, but the greek gods were only memorable for the mechanics of their fights, not as actual characters. I don't think Ragnarok was perfect by any means, but I'd take its more creative and fleshed out approach to characters over the caricatures in the first trilogy, they wouldn't have worked well in these new games at all. If it had been 3 games rather than 2 there likely would have been more spectacle but Ragnarok was unquestionably full of some crazy big action set pieces. I'm glad they strived something new, and moving to a new thing always means something is gained and lost.
@@richardanderson8107 I respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. I don't think the characters in Greek trilogy had remarkably good writing. But each game had a central theme which the narrative was built around. In the new GoW, so many plotlines were abandoned and many things existed without serving a larger narrative purpose. Fenrir, Surtr, the Mask, Freyr, and most importantly Jormungandr who was wasted so bad. If you take out these elements out of the game (and many more I'm forgetting), the story we're given would still be there. That's because there's no causal relationship tying everything together into a neat cohesive whole. They're just there to be there. I didn't mean that characters should've been made superficial. I'm all for nuance and depth and frankly, Ragnarok tries hard to do that but fails because it's a game that crumbles under its own weight. In the original trilogy, you at least had a payoff. It may have been shallow but it wasn't directionless. I'd personally take straightforward storytelling over the directionless and narratively vapid mess that is Ragnarok.
This bro. Fucking this. I get so pissed just thinking about the disappointment again... Gow 2018 managed to deliver greatness with very little from the mythology, they made their universe which was small, much bigger, grander and richer. Ragnarok had it all from the mythology and delivered jackshit...
@@aristonaragao3171 What would be even worse is if we actually did get the Atreus game that people speculate about. They cut GoW short cuz they didn't want to spend 15 years on a trilogy, but if they make an Atreus game, they will have spent 15 years on it anyways 💀.
No not really, if it was split up people would feel blueballed as hell. There is no good place to end this game besides the ending that was given. Waiting for ragnarok for a third game would feel like we were all lied to. Its not rushed at all the game gives you so many times to chill and explore, this game is so long. I think lazzerz is pushing his own expectations for the narrative. Now the franchise has a lot of potential for the next entry and if we have to wait a long time for that I don't see the issue. The god of war series is at a good stop point.
I personally liked gow2018 better in my opinion. It just seemed so much bigger and the story was excellent. Ragnarok was good but not as good as the one before it.
GoW was designed as part 1 of a trilogy. A lot changed before Ragnarok went into production so part 1 feels way more fleshed out. I still like part 2 though
This was a great watch. While I disagree with some points, I think this video conceptually really hits the nail on the head. While playing this game it felt off and rushed despite it taking me 40~ hours to 100%. It was at war with itself and you described a lot of why it felt that way and articulated the points great.
I believe the actual “Ragnarok” event should’ve been its own game and they should’ve just called this one “GOW fimbulwinter”. IMO, that gives them to opportunity to really flesh out the building blocks.
It makes so much sense that it was meant to be a trilogy. I played God of War Ragnarok right after I finished God of War (2018) and also felt like there was too much going on compared to how streamlined the first game was. While Ragnarok had some really great moments, it sad to think that we missed out on what could have been a masterpiece of a trilogy. Anyway, really great analysis, definitely looking forward to watching more of your critique videos!
I would't say "streamlined", but rather "condensed", and not always in a good way. It's the most visible when it comes to Atreus's arc. His development is rushed to the point that even the "normies" who don't really analyze their media could feel it, with him going power-crazy once he learns he's a god, gets hit by the backlash of his own hubris, and then learns from his mistakes in the span of a few in-universe hours. You can practically see the seams where all the connecting tissue between these character beats were ripped out, leading to a terribly paced and unrealistic arc, especially in comparison to the slow burn of the first half of the game. Last I've heard, it was one of those "development hell" situations, where the issue became visible too late in the dev cycle, and they couldn't fix it, but knowing why there's dog poop on the soles of your feet doesn't make it any less stinky.
I hate how when you kill Heimdall, the game threats it like "you are a monster, young kratos is back, the killer of gods" but is so stupid, heimdall attacks first, threats atreus and rejects with violence kratos mercy, they HAD to kill him, just like Baldur
That’s one of the biggest problems with this game in my opinion, and it all starts with the Norns. Particularly when they say “He kills gods but now he’s sad about it”. That’s a slap in the face of GoW 2018, it’s basically saying that his character in that game is meaningless because he just kills gods anyway. They try to make him killing Heimdall a big deal so that when he spares Thor the audience goes “Oh look Kratos is a changed man” when he does nothing out of character there. In 2018 he fights when provoked and always tries to resolve conflict peacefully at first, killing only when necessary. When Baldur shows up at his house he tells him to go away, Magni and Modi attack him and Atreus and show no interest in talking or stopping the fight until they’re dead, at the end he even tries to talk to Baldur again, telling him to not kill Freya but that proves to be useless, leaving him no choice but to kill him.
Truly, I was so disappointed with it. The first game is so well written and paced. It left so many possibilities for the second game and none of them were ever conceived. It’s a shame that one half of the series is so perfectly accomplished and the other is just a failed monstrosity of a game that couldn’t accomplish or build upon what the made the first game so good. I was genuinely pissed when the credits rolled in Midgard with the score playing in the background. I could only think of how the score doesn’t deserve to be played with this game, it deserves better. Walking down the hill after it ended with the beautiful music playing in the back was one of the most disappointing moments of my entire life, every aspect of this game was amazing except for the direction and writing.
@@tigeroyer7789i don’t have an issue with the story it may not be so good but I don’t think is that bad either my biggest upset are the god fights I was hoping for a bad ass heimdall fight a spectacular Thor fight a glorious Odin fight and a legendary ragnarok war but no instead we got lazy boring ugly design boss battles this game had the potential to be the best in the series why barlog why you left us😭
The game is a 10/10 for me, the problem is not the entire game It's the ending. We're talking about the goddamn Ragnarok, so obviously everything before was used to build up hype for the coming of it. The problem is that they made everything in the game so good, that they probably ran out of budget for the ending. Just think about how good the first fight against Thor was, and compare it to the second... As y'all already said, the writing is terrible, the bossfights are the most disappointing thing on the face of the planet, the atmosphere of the Ragnarok was non existent.
@@samuelesquivel6202It means he's a troll because as diverse as this earth is, and as good of a game tlou2 was, no real person would hold that opinion.
It was so shit. I never thought they would actually shit on the past of Kratos like that. The biggest point of who Kratos is as a person was used as a passing conversation.
Yeah is funny because Kratos tells about how he kinda kills all his family but Freya is more "sad" because she emmm is a woman? I Lost my brother, i fight my Monster mother and kill my daughter and wife Yeah but i Loss more ! Literally
I got so bored while playing it and so didn't enjoy the gameplay that I couldn't finish it and it wasn't based on difficulty I just genuinely did not enjoy the game play, it felt off and the bosses I fought we're pretty lame to me ive liked the gow franchises for a long time I remember playing all the them and the fourth was pretty nice to me also but this one was not it I didn't like a lot of parts of the story because of how boring they were and the good ones didn't outweigh the bad ones enough for me to want to keep playing it. I genuinely felt like it was a waste of time and money and its the first time this has happened to me with a gow game and just like this dude said I gave it a try, I wanted to like it really bad because I've loved gow ever since I was young but I just couldn't find any enjoyment from this one and I'm glad some I'm not the only one that feels this way and as for the ones who DID enjoy it well good for them at least to then it won't have ruined their gow experience like it did for me
@@dylan6996Exactly I waited 4 years to see the fucking Ragnarok, the war across the realms.... And then I obtain a 20 min segment with lazy boss design.
Cuz they should of made it a trilogy. They crammed too much into too short a game. They either needed to make it a trilogy or make ragnarok twice as long.
@@dylan6996 It's because they crammed too much into the game and made it too short. They should of made it longer or made it a trilogy. Also Sony Santa Monica consulted Sweet Baby Inc. So the game couldn't be super mean with words and had to have proper representation to the real world because we all know this game takes place in the real world and we gotta jam real world politics into it.
Ragnarok felt... Anti-clamactic. Before I felt it was because the "war" itself was so small and short, but your video made these feelings make more sense: The story had no room to breathe, so I was rushed all the way until the end only to realize... That was it? I was being trained to expect story beat after story beat being _beaten_ into my head with no subtlety, even within the optional side content, that finally hitting the end left it feeling empty.
I already know I'm not going to agree with this lmao But James always explains his takes well so I will watch in its entirety and comment for the algorithm. Get that RUclips money!
i just finished the game and my biggest problem is how wrong it feels to explore compared to 2018. having to put aside the prophecized death of Kratos to go free a big chained up river monster thing or atreus asking to go explore RIGHT BEFORE YOU MEET THE RAGNAROK TROOPS? i literally didnt do any side quests while playing the main story because i felt like it would completely ruin the immersion. it makes so much more sense exploring after the end of the game, but then you cant do it with the actual person you want to do the exploration with (Atreus) and youre stuck with a Freya whos friendship didnt even feel earned
I agree with a lot of points in this video, but one thing I don’t see too many people bring up is how miserable actually traversing the world is. People usually complain about the slow transitions where you need to crawl under or through something, and those ARE awful, but there’s also the incredibly slow and restrictive climbing and super narrow paths. With how twisty and maze-like the levels can be, especially in Vanaheim and the Applecore, these issues are only exasperated. Slowly clambering your way around the environment feels so much worse when you realize you accidentally went the wrong way and need to backtrack through it all again. To be fair, GOW 2018 had many of these issues too, but it was made less painful there due to much better pacing and less obtuse design.
@@frogglen6350 ive beaten every single one. even with the worst areas like blighttown they still somehow are less of a pain to navigate. but thanks for the input lil dude
Also, another issue with your video I wanted to add was that you really mixup what subtext and disclosure is. Kratos openly discussing his trauma and past with Freya is a direct result of what he feels he owes her. She saved atreus from an incurable illness and so, in his new role as a guardian figure, he feels he can disclose his past. Its a huge mark of his progress as a person and should not go understated.
I feel like james perspective on writing is too much informed from what you learn in creative writing in english. It’s like he just learnt about “show don’t tell” and is now just applying that rule everywhere while massively ignoring context
I had issues with the direction they went with Odin and Thor and the overall final act of the game. But Yeah I felt the stuff between Kratos/Atreus and Kratos/Freya were top notch. These dialogues in vanaheim do take you back specially if you played the old games a long time ago, but not in a cheap, nostalgia-bait way, they do feel earned for the reasons you mentioned.
My favorite part of Kratos' journey was not the end, but the part where Atreus yells at him "you never wanted to do this with me" and Kratos said "and yet I'm still here". Is deeper than they may have meant
@@wingsoffreedom3589 i loved elden ring but i do think its a little too big and a little too long. how much value you get out of it will probably depend on how experienced you are with fromsoft games or if you arent, how open minded you are to a game that doesn’t hold your hand and wants you to learn how to overcome its obstacles on your own
@@wingsoffreedom3589 Well Elden Ring is a whole different beast, i think it's perfect but not for everyone, hell i will don't even recommend it to my friends.
The point you made about side quests at 27:30 and throughout Part 5 are points I highly disagree with, the side quests in Ragnarök also add to the story, there’s even a line of dialogue in Aelfihiem where Mimir points out that Kratos is doing all of these side activities as a way to spend more time with Atreus while he can (before his prophesied death). Kratos as well as the player know that this can’t last forever, Kratos and Atreus will be separated somehow, so Kratos wants to spend time with Atreus doing what he enjoys, helping others and exploring realms, which is exactly what the side content is. You as a player are rewarded with both loot, but also seeing the relationship these three have grown to have, while it still lasts.
@@Wanteyt yeah that’s what happened, I wrote the comment when I was only a half hour in, then edited it to mention Part 5. While he does bring up that line of dialogue he kinda just dismisses it as an “excuse” which isn’t something I get at all. The game gives you the motivation to do side stuff right there, Kratos wants to spend the limited time he (thinks) he has left by adventuring through the realms and helping people, the things Atreus loves doing most. I think that’s plenty good reason to do the side stuff, and I can’t think of any better story explanation
@@e-scope I think a problem for me with that line is it is directly told to us instead of making that conclusion on our own through a subtle line of it. Just like he said in the video subtly will always be better. There was no need for it to be said directly, and there was no better writing reason for them to explain it away. Instead of making it a character point that kratos is trying to do more good, which would fit in more with his character for the rest of the game, they just say he wants to spend more time with Atreus. Which he might, but it was a missed opportunity to show some character growth, it wasn’t subtle, and it was shoe horned in.
Ye I agree I think that it also contributes to the world building greatly, if anything I feel like they should’ve added more side quests and expanded on some other quests aswell such as fayes one
........... He's an idiot. Prophecy is just a highly accurate guess based on if the major players of that prophecy keep to their natures without altering them. Often their toxic natures. Freya couldn't overcome her overprotectiveness. Baldur couldn't overcome his madness and hatred. Odin couldn't overcome his paranoia. Kratos overcame his more monstrous behaviors. Atreus overcame his recklessness. Angboda made herself important to events. Freya ultimately overcame her vindictiveness. Kratos, atreus, angerboda, and freya overcoming their toxic natures allowed them to shift the direction of the prophecy. They could not prevent asgard's death, cause odin's inability to overcome himself is what ensured its destruction.
As I was playing Vanaheim, I actually got really invested with the dialogue between Freya and Kratos. As a player, we likely feel how Atreus feels about her as he desperately wants to set things right. He even goes alone to visit her, knowing well that it puts him into danger. Kratos knows she's important to him. Then we get to the Vanaheim section. Kratos and Freya must work together and tensions are very high at first. Freya is still full of emotion and could snap at any moment. Kratos, knowing what's going on with her and owing a great debt to her for saving his son, starts to explain his past to her. As a player, we of course know all this, but Freya was genuinely surprised by some of things he says. As I ventured further into Vanaheim, tension was lessening as both characters are opening up. I thought it was well done. It wouldn't make sense if she decided to kill Kratos as suggested in this video. Atreus' reaction (or lack thereof) to her being at Sindri's house was very disappointing though. Just acknowledged in a throwaway line while in Asgard.
Why? Atreus is clearly a selfish, rude, arrogant little shit, always fighting others at every turn. He doesn't care about her, especially when his own interests are forming. He sought her out only to have an ally and to "rebel" against kratos. If atreus slowed down, thought things out and communicated about what he knew he may wake up. Or better yet, atreus may ask how Freya was.
I don't think the freya's moment was done well. She keeps saying "shut up, man" and then it seems like they're a team, but she's only in it for odin, but then in the end she says they're family Like, whaaaaaaat. There's isn't even a development on that, it's just thrown on the story
*GIVE ME MY 2 HOURS BACK!* Like seriously, what a waste of air/space of a video. Most of it is crying about the story because… it isn’t what you wanted and tried to create a narrative… around twisting facts shown from dev interviews to them wield the information incorrectly and manipulate the given information. And then there is the gameplay section. Not only does it defy logic in a stupid way. Games are mostly supposed to let newcomers get into speed, so the Fimbulwinter explanation is 120% welcome here! If that is really an issue I guess gaming in general must be bad for the guy and it will continue that way in the future. For example I’m expecting a semi-reset for FF7 Resequel Part 2, I won’t start with 3 Gutten accessories for constant limit breaks at the start of fights. Or going back to GOW R, it’s coherent, you don’t have to play most of the game to unlock the blades, yet gameplay isn’t 1:1 to 2018. In 2018 and mastery of the combat you’ll quickly notice that bare hands was a complete skill tree which mostly focused on posture damage which made it necessary for optimal play. Ragnarok almost completely deleted this style of optimal play yet I noticed a lot more necessity for parrying in GOWR to build up that posture. And OF COURSE! GOW R was lead by the Combat Designer of the Original GOW, so of course gameplay has massively improved for Ragnarok by giving a higher emphasis on aggression and nonstop action! Not to mention this goes beyond gameplay. Kratos in GOW R is a lot more faithful to the old games! From call backs in dialogue to his struggles/PTSD in the story! And to take a page from this review, 2018 wasn’t by any means a complete victory and there was a lot of trouble in paradise while developing it. But instead of manipulating that information I’ll just applaud how the end product was universally beloved and how the director of 2018 was smart enough to leave behind plans of how the story was supposed to go, essentially making 2018 and 2022 2 United and coherent stories unlike many other modern franchises *cough* SW and MCY *cough* . So if somehow you read this and are not far into the video please take this advice! 1, go use your time whatever else. 2, go read the actual Norse mythology to understand nods and reinterpretation made by the game to elevate the experience! 3, Go play the old games of GOW, available on PS Premium if you lack access to PS2/3. If you have done all of the above then I guess you’re free to watch this video… or explore more option on step 1… or use this video as a Podcast while doing step 1 cause you’re not missing anything with the “c word” IRL sketches. Take care internet stranger. Hope you found this helpful. Of course I couldn’t pick apart every aspect of a 2 hour video, but I insist. You won’t gain almost any new info/perspective from this video if you already followed the information released post launch or seen the reviews of critics, both positive and negative, shortly after release.
To end this on a positive note about the game. I personally completely applaud this game for taken so much attention to the endgame. Playing both from a mostly Freya and mostly Atreus companionship, it’s crazy how they managed to pull something so ambitious while also making it feel so natural IMO! And also the journey to 100% was super fun and respectful compared to other games. Hogwarts Legacy is destroying my souls with 100% items. But GOWR made me enjoy full completion, from the classic Super Bosses times 2. And the journey to the crater was simply wonderful. Very hard to get stuck on yet with every turn of a corner I found something new worth exploring, like the Dragon Boss Bogaloo, more collectibles, Kratos on Mortal Kombat dialogue and the Deers of the 4 seasons. Brought me back to some of my favorite areas in gaming like DS3’s Nameless King area “Earthen peak”.
His review isn't perfect but the majority of what he says makes sense, Ragnarok's overall story was poor but all the cutscenes are pretty good so it's easy to get fooled into thinking the story was well done. I feel like Ragnarok's story was more interesting than 2018's but it has way more flaws.
@@Epictook “easy to get fooled” isn’t the correct answer. If you turn off your brain, then it’s easy to say “most of what he says makes sense” in any form of video game essay video, not just this video. But to provide yet another example. Just tell me how many times did he scream “WHAT” at every dialogue when interacting with the Norns. In general, making this sorts of videos you can make any story either seem really good or really bad. No video game story is either completely flawed or flawless when you have a narrative and use a “magnified glass” to look at every story section… specially when the person looking is blind. Or for reference look at other reviewers and look at how they spin the narrative. At some points you have to ask how much these videogame essays delude the story to something it isn’t. Or perhaps the insulting ways they present it. This dude going off ramblings like quick “you actually have the right opinion if you’re with me” or a quick “this doesn’t make sense” joke when showing raw footage of the story. When they do this once or twice in the video it can be comedic. But when they do this all the time in the video in comes off as back handed and childish. And because videos aren’t a 2 way conversation it’s super easy for the viewer to just turn of their brain and nod at every “Criticism”. This dude is no better than the likes of Synthetic Man on the way the insert themselves and their reality instead of reviewing a game by their merits alone. In this case, remember that the title was originally different and was even more clickbait on why the game is bad. Yet the current title is still clickbait yet it’s more “less sincere” clickbait. And with this… I want to conclude this essay, holy hell my original comment was all we should expect a reader to read and then some. If anyone read all my comments, thanks for doing so and I admire your attention span.
@@Epictook “easy to get fooled” isn’t the correct answer. If you turn off your brain, then it’s easy to say “most of what he says makes sense” in any form of video game essay video, not just this video. But to provide yet another example. Just tell me how many times did he scream “WHAT” at every dialogue when interacting with the Norns. In general, making this sorts of videos you can make any story either seem really good or really bad. No video game story is either completely flawed or flawless when you have a narrative and use a “magnified glass” to look at every story section… specially when the person looking is blind. Or for reference look at other reviewers and look at how they spin the narrative. At some points you have to ask how much these videogame essays delude the story to something it isn’t. Or perhaps the insulting ways they present it. This dude going off ramblings like quick “you actually have the right opinion if you’re with me” or a quick “this doesn’t make sense” joke when showing raw footage of the story. When they do this once or twice in the video it can be comedic. But when they do this all the time in the video in comes off as back handed and childish. And because videos aren’t a 2 way conversation it’s super easy for the viewer to just turn of their brain and nod at every “Criticism”. This dude is no better than the likes of Synthetic Man on the way the insert themselves and their reality instead of reviewing a game by their merits alone. In this case, remember that the title was originally different and was even more clickbait on why the game is bad. Yet the current title is still clickbait yet it’s more “less sincere” clickbait. And with this… I want to conclude this essay, holy hell my original comment was all we should expect a reader to read and then some. If anyone read all my comments, thanks for doing so and I admire your attention span.
@@Epictook short version. Please, use your critical thinking when watching videogame essays. It’s easy as a viewer to just mindlessly consume. Just watch like the first 10 minutes of any section like gameplay while asking questions and you’ll realize how wrong this is!
Okay at this point I'm post sponsor segment. I can't help but notice that you've become incredibly bitter over the course of the video. Most of your criticism comes across as you have a narrative you want to push, so you're only considering how to frame the events in the game in the most negative light. Atreus sweeping "why Freya is at the house" under the rug can make sense in a multitude of ways. The most straightforward one being that he doesn't want to imagine what Kratos and Freya might have been doing. Other reason might be that he doesn't think the reason why is nearly as important as the fact that she IS at the house and IS helping them/Kratos is to him. You're really hating on Brok for some reason, you say he has no empathy, but that's clearly not true. Even in the first game he asks about his brother, initially in round-about ways. Afterwards he becomes more direct, asking if he's eating well at least. In addition he has some of the wittiest remarks in the game, add to that his witty insults and you've got an endearing character. Don't know why you are so dismissive of him. On to the Champion bit, they clearly do imply who the actual Champion is. It's Kratos, the character is depicted with the Draupnir spear, not arrows. Atreus mistook them as arrows, probably because he wanted to be the champion of the Jotnarr. Kratos doesn't want to be the champion, but he becomes it anyway. Not just of the Jotnarr, but of all the realms. You go on and on about the champion bit, claiming they should constantly reinforce it. It really isn't all that important in the grand narrative of the story. It's just a title. It's the actions that Kratos takes that matter. It's what makes him the champion of the Jotnarr and what drives the plot and story forward. I assume this is what you mean by focus, considering the amount of time you spent criticising this minor part of the story. If this is the amount of focus you demand of the story, then I can only say I'm glad they are not as focused as you want them to be, in the way that you want them to be. The Mimir bit, it's about what the character feels about a wrong they committed in the past, and telling that to someone they not only trust, but value and admire. He's telling Kratos this because he regrets it and because he doesn't want Kratos to think lesser of him. He wants Kratos to understand he is no longer that wilful youthful idiot. You contrast that with a 2018 clip saying that you can never be free from your chains and that is what Kratos implies. Except it isn't, Kratos clearly "implies" - if you can really even call it that, as it is quite a direct statement - that he is no longer bound by the chains Athena used on him. In other words he is free, he might still be a "monster", but one no longer bound by his monstrous past. He has freed himself from his chains and is now actively working to become a better person and father. It's kinda ironic that you harp on and on, but completely misinterpret the actual subtext. The Freya bit, this could have been better. It could have also been worse. What we got was actually pretty damn good. The irony for me is that the story beat you came up with was what I expected them to do. But instead they went the redemption route, showing that even Freya can change her nature. Which is in theme with the rest of the story. You are right though. The acting is phenomenal. Freya and Kratos gradually start trusting one another more and more. It's clear from their dialogue and their tone, especially on Freya's side. It's not nearly as abrupt as you make it out to be. And now you're full on contradicting your earlier point. Saying the game never overtly says what you want it to say, it only implies. (1:28:36) Meaning that if the game is blatant it's bad, but if they're subtle (a thing you claim is always better, it isn't btw) it's also bad. At this point it's clear you've really soured on the game for some reason, but it has become less and less clear throughout this video. You never seem to address the problems you have with the game in more than a very shallow framing. It seems to be mostly empty, vapid arguments one after the other. Atreus has become awkward. Yes he has, it's part of growing up. He's trying to find himself, find who he is, how he is and is trying to fit in. His attempts at humour might fall flat, but did you expect him interacting with Mimir on a daily basis for years to have zero effect on his character? Freya says Dwarven magic makes no sense, because the Dwarven magic system is completely alien to her. It doesn't map onto her Vanir magic in any way shape or form. It isn't her trying to be funny. Angrboda being a socially awkward recluse makes complete sense, she literally is. She doesn't have anyone to interact with other than the animals around her. And animals aren't exactly know for their stellar conversational skills. The Odin "mob boss" statement is fairly accurate, that seems to be exactly what they were going for. It also makes sense with his interactions with Thor and the rest of his family. He sees them all as tools. But he's distinctly different from what we normally get from such characters. He's far more of a narcissist. He doesn't care about his family other than their capacity as tools. (we get that right at the beginning of the game). You will not get "Look how they massacred my boy" out of him. He is a subversion of the standard trope, but I don't know why you think they're trying to be funny with him. They're trying to show he will and can manipulate everyone around him to get what he wants, as that is the only thing he cares about. He's only funny and witty to the extend that it furthers his goal. Once you've been around a group of people long enough it's completely normal to quip back and forth. I'd at least expect you to understand bants mate.
I realized about a week after I played the game that for most of it I was just going along with it because it was the new GOW and I needed to play it. I wasn't really interested in where the story was going most of the time and was only really hooked in at the first and last 3 hours. It's disappointing because I don't think the core game play systems are bad by anymeans, it's just that the characters felt like they were in a filler episode of TV 80 percent of the time. This game didn't leave me with any strong feelings, not love, not hate, not admiration, nothing.
I felt exactly the same thing, you described it better than I could. Like I really just went along with it after the first 2 hours because it was the new GoW game and I had to play it because I was so excited for it and waited so much time. Also combined with all the hype and unanswered questions the 2018 gave me. Plus I totally agree with the second part of your comment, the small number of characters on 2018 all felt carefully written, designed and meaningful, while in Ragnarok it was like watching a TV show with an overflow of poor quality characters coming on the scene with no clear set target.
I agree man ironwood almost broke me lol if it wasn't for the side quests and the strong ending i would've hated this game. I pretty much hated every Atreus mission
@@36090pburkeironwood was paced badly but Tht doesn’t mean Atreus sections were bad lol, the combat for Atreus was surprisingly really good, the narrative was also strong meeting Heimdall and how Odin was able to manipulate him
Because it's rushed, shallow and formulaic to the point of IP hijacking to make money by appealing to the lowest common denominator of gamer and children.
About an hour in, and honestly the beginning was really great and hit all the notes of why ragnarok has its issues but then we got to the part about fate and messaging and im sitting here like… “did we play the same game?” It was obvious to me in the beginning that the messaging was “Fate and prophecy doesn’t exist, the choices you make and who you are as a person decides what the future is” The norns could not predict everything. Even in the scene with them they say things like “kratos holds the urge to groan… he fails”. And when they were told that he killed bauldr to protect Freya, they didn’t see that coming either, just dismissed it as “so what he feels guilty about it now so should we give him a crown?”. Also, the inclusion of the final mural where faye had rewrote kratos ending gives supporting evidence tha Faye is actively trying to change Krato’s path, hence the dream sequences. And the conclusion of that section. “You can do that apparently, its just that simple.” Is it though? We just watched the characters go through exactly line by line of the prophecy up until the very very very last 10minutes of the game… After 30hours in 2018 and 45hours in this game. Was it actually that simple to rewrite fate? We see them try multiple times. Avoiding Bauldrs death, avoiding killing Heindall, avoiding Ragnarok… it all fails… time and time and time again. It wasn’t until they finally made a decision to change who they are at the core. That the ending changed ever so slightly (odin instead of Kratos in Artreus’s arms) but I wouldn’t call changing your core personality an easy feat. Sidenote, not all the internal shrines were “the real truth about the characters” they were just more in depth explanations with more details about the events that happen and might happen. Only Groa’s painting I believe have a different ending because Groa had to lie to Odin. The shrines are available to all Jotnars, that includes Angrboda and all the other Giants who have escaped the realms that may one day want to know what really happened. Not just “its just for Artreus/Loki” The character plot of Kratos not doing anything is valid, but you also have to remember his core belief: “HE DOESN’T WANT HIS SON TO GO TO WAR”. Thats why he does nothing and is reactive. He is doing the bare minimum without losing his son because his son has already snuck out without his knowledge. Even early in the game Mimir advises him that “hey if you don’t stop holding youre son back, youre gonna lose him”. He is terrified of losing his family again. While there are a lot of points this critique makes are very valid. I feel like you are so obsessed with the “this should’ve been two game, not one” concept that you are almost finding extra reasons from what is happening behind the scenes at the studio that you forgot to actually sit and listen to the story being told. Was it crammed? Yes, but the story is definitely not as disastrous and broken as you claimed it to be Edit: wow, maybe the reason why its so critical is because not a full play-through was done. Comment about Freyr’s “just being accepted that they like him there” well there was a whole entire story arc in Alfheim with Mimir and Freya that told why he is revered there. Guess that was missed
"No,you're wrong, the point is that prophecy and fate aren't real! Also, you're wrong because changing fate, which doesn't exist, was really, really hard!" Thanks for proving that the game was contradictory on this point.
The game had a perfect start and had a very dark and apocalyptic atmosphere during the fight with Thor but after that the game didnt feel like the end of the world as the tittle of the game suggested.
God of war needs a directors cut! I would pay 100$ for it to be as it planned to be. Don’t change the gamplay. Change the story and add some important stuff.. It probably never happen, though… one can only wonder how awesome it could be
This always happens when an industry reaches a point of stagnation , consumers overvalue products. The beauty of mathematics proves this happens with stocks but i didn't think i would see thr same exact phenomenon in the industry i love
watching this painfully mediocre game get almost unilateral praise was painful. If a mid 6/10 experience garners such responses, why would anyone in the industry strive to do better?
1:25:30 Under no circumstance would Kratos ever kill Freya. He would easily let himself be killed than unnecessarily kill, especially reflecting on his past. Replacing Freyas death for heimdalla death is unnecessary and out of character.
Also, the last exchange between freya and krate was actually pretty damn good and bad nuance that this guy completely ignored. The final similarity that being kratos himself being denied the choice between life and death which is what kickstarted this franchise, freya even seems to understands kratos similar experience with her via a smile which just adds so much to that scene IMO. I agree that the talks before had no nuance or subtlety but their last talk(aside from the freya “IM ANGRY” speech) was great.
Exactly. Like that time he lets those hungry people kill him in GOW 2018 instead of mercilessly tearing them in half. Kratos is a good boy now, not a warrior at all and it's not like he has someone he needs to stay alive to take care of. God, it's so easy to manipulate you people.
Really interesting video. An intriguing title since I played through the whole game once at launch and haven't touched it since. Having thoroughly enjoyed it I was surprised to find myself nodding in agreement with a lot of the criticisms laid out and, while I still consider it a good experience for me, it was surprising just how many flaws I'd either missed entirely or overlooked. Regardless of your intention not necessarily being to convince anyone of anything, really thought provoking analysis for me and an excellent piece of work 👍
yep thats what makes it fascinating how the game impacts people differently also i think the affect and replaiability the game has will change what people think in the future, and also what the next game will be.
I havent played this game yet so I cant speak for this one but I do find if you just blow through a game one time and then move on as long as the game was decently good youll have a pretty good outlook on it but say you really enjoy it and play through it multiple times your opinions will change throughout those most likely. I absolutely loved Jedi Survivor, first playthrough I was in love with the whole thing,at the end of doing 4 playthroughs there are alot of flaws that I didnt see the first time,nothing that massively changed how I felt about the game but I feel I could see it clearly after that.
Holy shit your fans really need to become their own people. 99 percent of all of the comments in here and your other videos are variations of " I felt the same way" " you are so well articulated" "x minutes in and I agree with you" not only that but calling the game a disaster is simply disingenuous. I didn't like elden ring but the game isn't a disaster by any means.
I hated what they did to the norse pantheon, as a kid i was a huge mythology nerd so i loved the stories of the norse gods that i read in some edas. Odin? He is the villain, he has no honor, he is a scheming, squallid wimp who is humilliated all the time and meets a pathetic death. Thor? Depressed alcoholic, very similar to marvel's Thor. Týr, god of war? "Nah dude, let's just turn him into a pacifist who practices tai-chi to relax lol". Jörmmund and Fenrir? They're not world-ending threats, they're good guys and serve no purpose other than eye candy. Baldur, god of light? Annoying one dimmentional asshole meant to be unlikable so the player won't feel bad when it's time to kill him off, (same for Heimdall) Freya is his soccer mom now. Ragnarök? Never actually happens... The other godesses do nothing but give exposition and whyne. No accents or idioms either, everyone speaks like a modern day californian. It's like they hated the Norse myths and just wanted to humuiliate it's legends and icons.
The story just feel far too different compared with the first- tone, dialogue, the prevalent American culture and accents, underwhelming and plain boss battle apart from Thor, garm and nidhogg. little to no improvement in gameplay, combat mechanics removed and shield system unrefined and messy. They had it right the first time. Weak Odin. My biggest one is. Lack of friggin scale just to be turned into an MCU emotional dialogue fest. I could they couldn't be bothered designing a game with epic scale but would rather just talk alot and walk alot. A disappointment overall
My main issue with GOW is that the Norse Gods just don't come across as gods compared with the Greek ones but at most demi-gods, even Freya and Odin who display the highest levels of power don't seem like gods but more like sorcerers.
They weren’t supposed to be portrayed that way. They also can’t anyways because god of war 4 and 5 are more slowed pace. The charcters don’t have to be destroying everything every time they walk to prove there powerful.
I knew something was wrong with this game when I realised that whole Joutunheim part that brought the story to a screeching stop took me longer to get through than the big finale both games were leading up to. I'm sorry but I didn't give a shit about Angrboda and her stupid grandma in the GoW Disney edition section. If they really wanted to condense 3 games into 2 I don't understand at all why this particular part took up such a huge amount of time when it really could have been about 15 minutes long. Also doesn't help that Angrboda herself is a dumbass character that tells Atreus he can't tell Kratos about Jotunheim but then randomly appears all jovially when Thor and one of Odin's ravens are literally meters away while Atreus is out on a mission with them but that's a rant for another day. Anyway, game is okay, not a masterpiece at all.
calling gowr a disaster is flat out wrong. an analysis critique means you are actively trying to find a flaw in what you are criticizing and analyzing. overall good video and while i do agree that there are things in the game that arent as good as other parts of the game (specifically ironwood) but its easy to find a flaw in any game as there will never be a game that is completely perfect. it definitely is a good game and i think your expectations were kinda skewed after gow2018. its obvious gowr was going to be more of gow2018 due to it being a sequel with not many or any major changes. exploration, combat, the way the story is made, all of it was always going to be similar. i dont know what you were expecting with gowr but i dont think calling any game that was contending for goty a disaster is any good way to for people to see your point. It was kinda a hard watch due to the title of the vide cause im already going in with the impression that you will have unrealistic expectaions that are extremely nitpicky and that detracts from what your trying to say
@@skane260 i agree the story wasnt all that. Not an amazing story but most certainly a passable story but last time i checked a game is not just its story.
Oh, so you were going in with false expectations? You shouldn't do that. And you seem to entirely misunderstand his point; yes, he wanted it all to be very similar, that was precisely his expectation, but it wasn't.
@@BWMagus going into a video with expectations is quite literally the point of a title. To get people to click and to tell those who are thinking about clicking, roughly what the video is about. And how is gowr not similar to gow2018? The novelty of 2018 wore off cause it’s a sequel with the same game mechanics and story telling but with subtle changes. The formula from 2018 to gowr hasn’t changed. I don’t think gowr was vastly different from gow2018
Joseph Anderson will either be very angry or very impressed that you managed to beat him to the chase! I’m glad at least you were both on the same page with how you felt’
For real, I am also really looking forward for Joseph's review, although he mentioned in a stream playing Ragnarok months ago that if he didn't finish it in a few days, he just wouldn't make a review on it. Not entirely sure if he meant it seriously or sarcastically.
For this to actually work well as a duology, 2018 needed to do more set up. 2018 is such a small, tight story that has very little to do with ragnarok. This forces ragnarok to bloat itself to fill the role of part 2 and 3 of the story
Hard agree on this. 2018 was a much more personal journey that felt like it was there to set the ball rolling for the larger plot and introduce us to the setting and characters. This is exactly the approach you would take at the start of a trilogy. Ragnorock was definitely meant to be spread over two games but cramming them into a single game make it feel so much more rushed and less developed. The fact that Freya went on a multi year revenge quest trying to kill Kratos only to then immediately forgive him is insane. That arc could have taken up a whole game on it's own.
There was plenty of setup in 2018, half of the game was setup. The setup doesn't work when the next game literally makes it a point to dismiss and retcon all of it. Ragnarok could never work as a sequel because it objectively is not a sequel to the game that came before it. It's an unfaithful reboot of a faithful reboot.
One HUGE issue with the game that cannot be explained away or justified in any way, is the extremely lackluster final act. HOW DID THEY SCREW UP THE TITULAR EVENT SO BADLY? I was giving the game a significant amount of benefit of the doubt up until Ragnarok. It was at that point that any goodwill I had towards the narrative dissipated, and it became obvious to me that development of the game must have been a mess in a lot of ways. If I was a project manager or a producer responsible for this game, it would be a no-brainer to me that Ragnarok itself MUST be the one part of the game that is knocked out of the park above all else. Instead, it's easily the most disappointing part of the experience, and actually makes the rest of the game worse. It makes the universe feel incredibly small, considering we only see 2 Norse gods during Ragnarok, who were already major parts of the plot, which makes it feel like the Norse pantheon was basically just like 8 people with an army of einherjar. There's some throwaway lines about "lesser aesir," and some of the other members of the pantheon are described in stories told be Mimir, but it really doesn't justify making it so that barely any of the Norse pantheon has screen time. If we compare the amount of gods shown in the Norse games to the original trilogy, it's not even comparable. The Norse games absolutely should have been a trilogy, they should have actually made an effort to represent the entirety of the Norse mythos, and they damn well should have made the event of Ragnarok something more than 45ish minutes of weak spectacle. As it stands, we get to the end of Ragnarok and all I could think was "That's it?" They were more interested in telling a personal story about Kratos and Boy than actually giving us an interesting story about an outsider finding his way into Norse mythology. Atreus being Loki was a horrible decision that deprived us of running up against what most people would consider the most interesting Norse deity, thereby even further shortening the already short list of Aesir we see. At least I had plenty of fun with the combat, but I really don't have any desire to do another playthrough and suffer through the disappointing plot again. The focus of the series used to be bringing mythos to life and using it as a fun vessel for spectacle and gameplay. The focus has now shifted to an intimate "Father, son" story that the devs will sacrifice everything else for the sake of, which is pretty disappointing, and even that intimate plot feels rushed because they were so insistent they tell this story in 2 games.
@@frogglen6350 I would be a lot happier if we even just laid eyes upon more of the Aesir pantheon, or more of the Vanir. The world of the two most recent games feels really small because of how few Aesir are represented. Even if you didn't fight a huge number of the Greek gods, the fact that a fairly sizable amount of the Greek pantheon were at least shown to exist in the original trilogy went a long way to make it feel like we were actually in the Greek Mythos. And, the only gods fought in these games are the boring sons of Thor fight, Baldur, Odin, Heimdall, and Thor. That's very comparable to the number of fights you're listing for the older games. Barely seeing any of the Vanir/Aesir is simply a huge missed opportunity, whether or not they were going to be actual boss fights, if only to bring to setting the setting to life in a more complete way. As for Atreus, I'm not sure how much his existence was really necessary altogether, but I can say with certainty that he did not HAVE to be Loki for him to be a fully developed character. It would definitely have been possible to write the son of Kratos as a complete character without making him Loki, and that would have been preferable, so we could have more interesting characters in the antagonist corner. Loki could have been something of a wild card that was a pain for Kratos, the Vanir, and the Aesir, much like would be expected based on how he is characterized in myth. They could have even still made the plot that both Kratos and the Aesir are hoping to avoid Ragnarok, but the actual god Loki, not Atreus, is hell bent on making it happen.
I’ll finish this video later, but after finishing the Ironwood section (and even just the Atreus sections in general), I will never complain about playing as Miles or Mary Jane in Spider-Man again. At least those got to the point quickly.
it makes so much sense that this was at first intended to be a trillogy (the norse trillogy we could have called it) if they had split the first half into "GOW: Fimbulvetur" and focused on Thor as the rival to Kratos , with Atreus & Kratos spliting, THEN would have made "GOW: Ragnarök" propper with Atreus & Odin being the main conflict , then father & son reconcile! i enjoyed it in the end but it feels so compressed . Great feature length critique man, Kudos
The reception of this game just truly shocks me. The entire planet claims that it's a timeless masterpiece, a flawless sequel, the 2022 GOTY, the best Sony game and so on, yet everywhere I look, the player base agrees on lots of issues. We hated the Ironwood chapter, the minibosses were overused, recycled and disappointing, the pacing is off, and these are just the top examples. So if that many of us found these problems serious, why are people still having this 10/10 discussion online? I just don't get it. It's a solid game but people are so blinded by hype it physically hurts sometimes.
I feel like the presentation and performances are a huge reason why. All of those things are on par with the 2018 game, and it makes people believe that the narrative quality is on par with that game too.
That makes a lot of sense actually. It's also important to note that Sony heavily relies on an entirely new player base since the eclipse of the PS4 era, with all the remakes/remasters and soft reboots. Therefore, lots of people who are entirely new to videogames will be presented with these titles as introduction to the medium, and they might rate it way higher than experienced players who saw some aspects executed better in other titles. (No shade on new gamers tho)
@@kopottrobot It's fresh in people's mind. Overall the game is executed well, with very few issues mechanically with some high points. But give it a year or more and people will leave their honeymoon phase and look more indepth.
@@yellowcard8100My Original rating for Ragnarok was 8/10 it's a good game but not a masterpiece as 2018 was but with valhalla dlc I think it becomes a solid 9/10.
@@AaronBiswasYeah, my rating is around a 9-9.5/10. Aside from the other characters spoiling the puzzles, Kratos not going after Atreus after he barged through the door to run away which is probably my only issue with the writing, some questions remaining unanswered like the mask, the pacing towards the end being a bit rushed, and the Berserker fights not being as enjoyable as the Valkyrie fights in the 2018, it’s still pretty great, just a kinda flawed masterpiece. It’s not as good as Red Dead 2 or Nier Automata, but I love it.
these "critique" youtubers are getting out of hand.. litterally taking small issues with any game and blow it out of propotion... and im talking all games not just ragnarok. hungry for views and will stretch the fuck out of it. Elden Ring loved by almost everybody, some youtuber : "Elden Ring is a flawed missed opportunity" Red Dead 2 Loved by almost everybody scores high on anyone's list. some youtuber "ultimately RDR2 is not a good game" and this is not defending devs or publishers its just a tired formula at this point. do better.
I played GoW 2018 first then Ragnarok when it came out last year. In February of this year I went back to the classic trilogy and instantly fell in love with them, the music, the gameplay, the energy and the low key story are all amazing, honestly they blew the new stuff out of the water imo and I played the new stuff first. So no “nostalgia” or “bias”. I’m surprised the new games are as highly rated as they are, there good don’t get me wrong, but not Game of the Year or 10/10 Timeless masterpiece good.
agreed 100%. I mean I understand if people love the new GoW games. They're good games tbh, especially 2018. What I don't get are the 10/10 reviews from every mainstream review website and GoTY awards. That's a massive exaggeration.
Been a fan since the original and I enjoy the new game far more overall despite the number of unnecessary modern gaming trends they decided to add. Overall the combat and the storytelling is better even if things don't get quite so crazy in terms of scale and the music is just as good. It just feels like the series grew up with it's audience.
@@VicViper1984 disagreed tbh, the old has far better more complex combat, better camera to compliment the combat, and far better art setpieces and scenery.
@@flamingmanure that's rich. I understand having a personal preference, but what you're stating about the gameplay is just objectively false. The core combat of the original trilogy was not more complex than the new titles. Hell the blades of chaos behave almost identically between the two styles of gameplay with the only major difference being that in the og games moves like rampage of the furies were so spamable that it removed any real skill requirements, blocking, parries and dodges were far clunkier and less functional, and quick time events were a much larger focus because at the time they were not a largely unwelcome mechanic. The new games took the core gameplay of the og games, improved the basic functionality of a lot of the mechanics, streamlined ranged and melee combat so well that they can be alternated between freely and effectively and created weapon functions to perfectly complement that system, added effective quick swap features so that swapping weapons to switch up combos was possible and easy to accomplish and more. There is absolutely nothing about the OG games that was functionally more deep or complex regarding the combat, and the only thing the OG games had that the new ones don't, is a dedicated jump button. Prefer the stylistic differences in the original games all you want, just don't act like there is some objective quality to the originals that the new games lack, because that's just downright delusional.
For as much as I did still enjoy the game the first time around, I did finish with a feeling that something was off and it's good to see you put it into perspective. Hell Gow has been my favorite series since childhood and I bought a ps5 just for this, but at the end there was a feeling of what could've been. For something as catalytic as ragnarok, maybe I was expecting more, something like Gow 3. Not necessarily that violent Kratos and tone, but still. It's a long game yet it really does feel off, rushed, despite the polished mechanics (other than the ui downgrade). For as much was setup in 2018 and this norse world, it didn't feel like we got to experience all of it, and now the saga is over? It's hard to see where they're going next but hopefully they don't commit this same mistake again.
My Gripe is how Asgard looks, Odins "Palace" is a freaking Cabin it was literally a summer camp lmao like we went from Olympus to a Summer camp? cmon Santa Monica you can do better than that.... Its not like im expecting a super fancy Palace but man this was just lazy and no effort.
Personally I liked the game. I think it mainly comes down to different interpretations of the game itself and it themes. Like Kratos telling Freya about his past was to me just him finally finding closure between the ending of 2018 and the start of Ragnarok and being open with other people. Like Freya saved Atrues so he trusts her implicitly. To me it makes sense.
It also perfectly allows Kratos to convince Freya that killing him will bring her no peace just like him in Olympus, allowing her to forgive him without it coming off as unrealistic or rushed.
@@chase1630 For real, I found LazerzZ take on that to be insanely baffling. On one hand, he thinks making Freya too stupid to understand the implications of those actions/messages that Kratos told/showed her and "subverting our expectations" and still attacking us is better than her being smart enough to actually listen to him and put aside her hatred to focus on their common goal, Odin. Then, he immediately praises the writing in her side quest when she understands that the pain would never go away by destroying the artifacts. I'm sorry, WHAT?!? Like how do you go from that line of thought to the other and not see the issues/contradictions with that leap?
I liked the idea of kratos opening more, that concept is good for this sequel, but it was executed poorly. I agree with the others that it felt out of character and I believe it should have been in a well crafted cutscene and not in a walking transition.
I personally wouldn't call it a disaster but I 100% agree that this game was no where near as good as it should have been IMO. Even now nearly 5 months later I'm still trying to understand why i don't love this game like I expected myself to like GOW 2018
This video was so refreshing. I was so disappointed with this game, but even more disappointed when everybody else was praising it as a flawless masterpiece on par with the 2018 game. 2018 was so good, and Ragnarok left a lot to be desired. Thank you for making this video. I feel validated.
@@LazerzZand the part about the characters becoming completely Marvel-ized, turning into quippy characters out of the MCU, I was so happy you brought that up. It was such a let down for me and I couldn’t get anybody else that played the game to recognize that as much as I did. It was like that feeling of “I must scream but I have no mouth.”
I love the game but your points were spot on. Especially on the Aesir gods and how the 2018 Aesir wouldn't fit in. As soon as I saw Odin I said "Hmm....Really?" Then he and all of the other Aesir spoke. Most annoying of them all being Thrud. Why do they talk like that?! Does Odin run a small struggling personal injury law office on the side? Is Thrud having popularity issues at The All Father of Asgard High School?! "Uhh, Midgard boys are so weird." Really? That's level of effort you put into writing the Aesir dialogue and banter?
@@chapman2001 laughably disagree, odin is written like a american mafioso hack and talks like one too, his accent and demeanor is laughable and thor is just a dumb thug with daddy issues.
@@chapman2001 lmao, you cant be serious. they dont live up to the hype at all, their relation makes little sense and their actions lack any direction or logic.
1:32:15 This part is explained in multiple side quests. Freyr once teleported into alfiem into their magic water or whatever and everyone thought he was the chosen one among for the elves. Thats why both sides of elves love freyr. But yeah reducing something as important and as big a plot point as uniting two warring factions to a few lines of dialogue is really dumb.
Is it really a big plot point? It really serves no purpose other than a neat trivia of Freyr was liked among elves. The game has a lot of tidbits of lore sprung inbetween quests and sidequests. To me that only makes the world richer.
@@gurhhjde2937 But you know that could've happend off-screen right? Not everything needs a 10-hour story. For example in the crater area you learn about the fight between Faye and Thor which is why Thor, in the beginning of the game said "this looks familiar". For me personally I think the only portion of the game that felt rushed was the actual ragnarok battle. For what's hyped as a sort of apocalypse it could've been more (maybe). I think the side quests in GoW Ragnarok have much more story built into them than the first game.
@@cynicalmemester1694Yes, I hate when people say that you cannot get 100% of the story/details without playing 100% of the game. Glad someone noticed.
Halfway through this and you already convinced me. I loved God of War 2018, but Ragnorak just felt off.....and I couldn't figure it out till now. The game was just all over the place and the ending wasn't satisfying. I was hoping for a possible redemption for Thor, Odin and was curious about that rift Odin was trying to open. I loved Thor and Odin....bummer that they were killed off.
This is one of the games where you have all the hype playing it for the first time but once you beat it the first time, the second run doesn't really have it anymore, that's exactly what happen to me in the first one too, I beat that game once and no matter how much I try to play it again for the new game plus, it's just wasn't there anymore, my heart feels empty playing it the second time, like I said this game is a beat it once kind of game..
Omg same, I tried replaying it and fully saw all its faults. Doesn't feel like a God of war game at all. I gave up at the atreus and agaboda sections. So boring, these aren't games, they're cringe movies smh
I feel like it relied on fan service and elements of surprise a lot. When you play it again it's completely gone. Whereas GOW 2018 never did this, or barely, which is why it still has replayability. Not only this, but Ragnarok felt like a grind, why would I feel the need to go and explore all the realms again, find every chest and loot, and do every side quest? It's not rewarding at all
the title is hyperbolic but he does makes some really good points in the video. i too walked away from Ragnarok feeling a bit cheated and so it's nice to see someone express in words the issues i had with the game and introduce me to things i missed that they don't like about the game
I honestly feel like both aspects are true. The game is a masterpiece and also a mess. I felt many of the things he talks about (especially during my second playthrough), but it's still such a great game that it likely lands at a 9/10 for me. It's very similar to Uncharted 4 in that sense.
@@alex_srsc No it's not a masterpiece. Nothing about it is and I can't stand that you people use that word so lightly with clearly not understanding what it means. Gow 2, 3, and 2018 were masterpieces this couldn't be further from it.
I had a lotnof fun with GoW ragnarok and it's free DLC. I respect the effort you put into the video and into your arguments. But I do still disagree. I still loved your video, well done dude.
The thing that baffles me the most with this game is that its gets praised for Asgardians not looking like the "typical modernised" MCU Marver characters. But they talk, act and characterised as such. lol
The gameplay is amazing the game is the most fun game ever but the story felt disappointing thor being a drunken depressed fool who was abused by odin goes against everything mimir said about him in the previous game odin in the kratos scenes was cool and menacing but overall I feel his boss fight was one of the biggest disappointments in gaming. The Atreus missions also brought this game from a 9.5 to an 8.5 such a letdown compared to 2018 imo
When the release date of the game was announced i counted the days to finally being able to play it. While playing i enjoyed everything about it. Often i spend minutes just standing on specific locations and enjoying the beauty of the surroundings. (For example the view right after climbing the wall with atreus). That was something i did not do with 2018. The fighting system and the possibilities to change your settings and controls got improved. I got myself the platinum trophy. I totally get the point in the video that the story might feel rushed, but for me that was not that much of an issue. The whole ragnarok event in the game actually felt a bit anticlimatic for me. Like "that's it"? But other than that i thoroughly enjoyed it and i absolutely can't wait for ng+ to finally launch so i can play it again and try gmgow difficulty for the first time.
I'm just gonna say it... This games direction was amateurish. The director of this game never directed a game before and it shows. It's all over the place and it was trying way to hard to be a movie instead of a game. It felt like going from place to place just to load the next cutscene. No interesting gameplay mechanics, no cool fight sequence that require more thought than simply pressing the hit and dodge buttons and the "puzzles" were an insult to our intelligence. But yeah the worst part was definitely the writing. All the gods acting like 2020's americans and of the 3 gods that are killed in this game Kratos kills only one and it is in a cutscene. Extremely disapointing.
I enjoyed 2018 way more. I couldn’t even bring myself to finish Ragnarok. Edit: I think it comes down to that I had a clear goal in 2018. I didn’t feel any purpose in Ragnarok. It just felt like I was jumping around between realms for the hell of it.
@@wyattcheramie004 the lack of direction was never a problem for me. If anything that’s what I like about ragnarok’s story. It’s about 2 people trying to protect the ones they love while looking for their place in a world dictated by prophecy and fate.
The only thing I really couldn’t stand about this game was the war. All game long we hear kratos refusing to take his son to war and by the time it happens it’s like a 15 min segment with scripted events. Imagine if when Thor vs the snake (not even gonna attempt to spell his name) came crashing down and opening up diffrent paths for you traverse to Odin. It felt so rushed when they had an endless possibly with it but they went the most boring and safest route imo. They could have made it so much better,forced us to witness the death around us have kratos take charge and push the front line while we move over to Loki and have him do something complete different on a diffrent part of the battle then they come together towards a second or third stage of the Odin fight showing kratos that his son truly is strong enough to go on his own. I really liked this game I played it 5-6 times but everytime I get to what was lead of the whole story it was a huge letdown.
Everything about the Ragnarok war was rushed. The event "Ragnarok" needed to happen throughout a whole game, so you could really feel it's significance in the grand scheme of things. Not only the last 30 min of a 26 hours long game.
This game was terrible in my eyes because you can tell it was rushed and to many characters didn't get time to shine nor was this game any close to fulfilling the prophecy of 2018 GOW with Kratos dying. Thor usage was an absolute joke. After waiting 4yrs he was a walking simulator looking for a mask instead of being the threat that he is in Norse mythology. Helheim was a complete joke as well. Hraesvelgr as the leader of hell WTF!. 🤯Don't even get me started on the Norns. As a mythology buff and a huge fan of the GOW franchise in general this the worse GOW story ever in my opinion. It's like they really didn't care anymore and ran out of idea's. 👀 This video explained everything that I feel about this game and it pisses me off on how many people don't even care about the game they just don't want you talking about Sony's precious studio's. It's pathetic in my opinion. Thank you for this video and continue to speak up on this you do and don't like. All those people that have a problem with it can go F*** off.
AAA gaming industry feels more and more like the music industry: people think more about the lyrics than they actually care about the music itself. In the same way, the "storyh" in modern games is more important than the game design and the gameplay itself. Finally, someone is starting to address how wrong this feels, especially if we have to WATCH the game for the first 5 hours before actually starting to play it
I would argue most, if not all games on this channel are bad or mediocre at best. Even FF7 remake is shit compared to original. But just like with music, turns out people like eating shit if its nicely packed, that's that.
Of course, gaming because mainstream so a lot of people who used to hate games and made fun of gamers got consoles, they still hate gaming but they want to be part of the trend so what they can get out of a game? Story and dialogue. Now, the story and dialogue cannot be more than what they are used to in Marvel, Fast and Furious, Transformers movies so anything that resembles those things they will love it. Notice how all Sony games are the same or very similar? Because that makes the most money. Sony Marvelizing their games but I don’t think it’s good in the long run. However the fans will defend this til death.
Late reply but I agree, I like to compare it to Star Wars in that Force Awakens (Gow 2018) was good and had a lot of potential for the future and then they released TLJ (Ragnarok) and threw all that setup out the window and didnt know what the fuck they really wanted. Its like a whole other studio took over or something.
So I have to say I very much disagree you on this game... but as someone who has LOTS of problems with plenty of beloved games from the past decade I REALLY get it. Stay safe out there. These waters are treacherous.
@@TheMilkMan905 most of how he feels about the narrative. In the video he describes how the plot is an overly condensed mess, whereas to me it was just fine. Excellent even. I liked the pacing, it felt stressful and emotionally complex in the way any story about facing the apocalypse should. I liked the character development and the writing, as well as the plot progression and the use of themes in the game. Lots of stuff he wasn't too keen on. There's probably also quite a few small things I could nitpick and defend, but that would require rewatching the whole video. Let's just say that I totally loved this game, WAY more than the previous one, and that in spite of my differing opinion I respect everything Lazerzz has to say about it. He was super articulate and well argued the whole way through.
This video perfectly encapsulates some of my problems with this game. Your remark of the first 2 hours being really good was the biggest relief for me to see someone else having had the same experience. It felt like THE sequel we’ve been waiting for but all of that has to slowly take a backseat for more world building and introduction of extra characters because 2 games had to be squished into one. Great video.
And now you're on to claiming the game style is only because of the previous game. Why should they change the entire type and genre of the game? It makes far more sense to keep the general game mechanics the same. They added onto what they established in 2018. No one would expect the game to be completely different, in fact everyone would be completely up in arms about the sudden drastic change for no discernible reason. I'm 80% through your video and honestly your attempt at pre-criticising your critics seems to apply, except it applies to you, not your critics or would-be critics. Normally I would say this video has been a swing and a miss, but it's more so you willfully blind-folding yourself and trying to hit a pinata with a stick. You've just about hit everything, except for the bloody pinata. As someone who deeply values and appreciates good well structured criticism (especially long form that gets in to the nitty gritty), this has been a giant letdown. It doesn't instill me with a sense of wanting to hear more of your criticisms. Quite the opposite in fact. You've soured me on your channel as much as you've seem to have soured on GoW: Ragnarok. But who knows, maybe in the future I'll give it another shot, after I've got this bad taste out of my mouth.
@@GlivGluvhe wants more people to see the video so they can hear a good and logical argument. There is objective value in being able to criticize art and understand why it is good or bad. You're not helping anyone by blowing Sony's c*ck no matter what they produce.
The poor pacing and lack of logic with the characters in Ragnarok was an insult to 2018, the writers really couldnt be bothered anymore and just wrote a marvel conclusion.. even the thor fights were "meh" in comparison to the baldur fights
I can’t believe I watched the whole video. Didn’t think I was gonna make it through. And interestingly I am watching this video right after I finished watching the 2018 video you made and that’s what made this video even more interesting cause I know how much you loved the first one. I hated this one too so much and was waiting to see what you thought of it I literally went to the channel looking for the video. 😂😂😂 and to my surprise you said just what I felt playing the game out loud. Thank you so much.
Love to hear it! So glad the video resonated with you, I’m glad you enjoyed it. This video was super cathartic to make after seeing pretty much nothing but praise all over the internet, I felt like I was going completely insane 😂
When I played it, something that actually made me get angry was the fact that it took around 15 hours before I found my first heavy runic attack for the axe. I explored everywhere I went pretty thoroughly and I was genuinely pissed off at how much less runic attacks there were in general and that they're nowhere near as good or fun to use as in 2018. I also didn't like the story missions that were pretty much just padding. You mention the searching for norns where you find the completely empty caves which is just a waste of time. They couldn't have even put an item in there? or anything? Another time I got a little annoyed was during the first Atreus mission where you find freya. After all that effort, as you walk back to the yggdrasil gateway, Atreus says something like "well I guess that was a waste of time" yeah no shit, so why was it in the game?!! Overall, I still enjoyed the game a lot, but it did have some problems and I do agree with most of your points.
I will say, I feel like there are some parts in here where the point is missed. Although you made some points, there are some areas of depth that are lacking. 1. Atreus is a child. It makes perfect sense for him to have gone to Asgard to see Odin because he thought he had all the answers. His character is one that tends to get ahead of himself (also shown when he released Garm) and this is another example of that. He was fixated on his goal to find out who he was supposed to be, this was a part of that. 2. Prophecy works in juxtaposition with 2018. Where in that game they went on their journey only to find out it was prophesied at the end, here they know what the end entails and have to decide how far they want to go down this path. This hold weight, as there are several pieces of dialogue around inevitability, and is used in a nice way to tie back to Greek mythology about people trying to subvert their destiny only for it to come true anyway. 3. You implied a couple times that Kratos does not feel that close to Mimir. That is simply not true, as in the journal he writes that he has not considered many people a brother but he does Mimir. 4. It makes sense for kratos to open up to Freya. He never saw her as an enemy which is why he never tried to kill her. You mentioned that he only saved her from Baldur so his son would not see it but what’s not entirely true. She saved his son’s life, he did not want her killed. 5. Freyr has a light and dark elf, a traveller, and a dwarf in his camp. “They United because they really like me” works because it’s implied he has that gift. This is told not only through this, but also through what Freya says of the leader he could have been had he chosen to. 6. Kratos absolutely wants to help people. He writes favorably about people in journals when he can and there are a few missions where characters to do expect him to take up the task but he does because he feels it’s important (particularly when helping the spirit father find his son). 7. The All-Stars tournament reference is an Easter egg. It’s just… an Easter egg 8. About the combat.. yes he is brutally killing things. You included a clip in this very video where Athena says “you will always be a monster” and he says “I know but I will be your mister no longer.” It’s also incredibly apparent that Kratos will do whatever it takes to get the job done/protect who he loves. There are so points I agree with in this video, like how it needed to be 3 games to tell a full story and how some parts were left unanswered. I almost do agree with the tedium of the crater as I found myself running around aimlessly (although I find it interesting that you didn’t mention the hidden parts only accessible by boat, since you liked that in 2018). I think it’s obvious from my essay that I liked this game lol, but I also analyzed it and these are just some of the things I found differently
I honestly agree with a very strong majority of these points. Atreus is supposed to be like that because he’s not mature. He only becomes that way when the game ends.
So the reason the norse got cut short is because cory is lazy/bored with the IP and didn't want to continue for three games. Good god... get a different proffession lol
@@Megasuperq Nothing. The part thats wrong is he set this up, hyped us up and then crammed everything into one game and basically rushed the ending. He should've stepped aside and let someone else take over the Idea while he took up another project in the company; I pray they let this franchise rest. I dont want him helming shit and I sure as hell could care less about his future endeevors. You dont start something you dont "Want" or "intend" to finish or finish properly. Regardless of circumstances.
I enjoyed the video cause I felt the disjointed parts of the game while playing but I enjoy the game aswell, I enjoy watching Kratos develop into a better person
Why would you compare his bond to Brock and syndry to his bond with his son and his wife. Honestly in this video it seems to me like you're upset that they just didn't make three games and you're pulling out whatever you can to slander this game. I like your content but this video is a reach and just not good
My God! I wished MIMIR would STFU for one second! Brother this, BROTHER THAT! Won't let me solve a puzzle, won't let me observe the game in peace. Won't even let me watch a cutscene without his input! I can't turn the banter off in the options, because these characters won't STFU!
I feel the problem with mimir is the reason why every character talks too much. If they cut on that fat and left him being the travel companion he is it would feel better but I didn’t hate him. The game keeps it too saturated with dialogue with other characters to make me hate the one with the best dialogue
God i feel vindicated by this video, i thought 2018 was the second best game of all tome after rdr2, while i thought ragnoroks gameplay was a huge improvement, every other part was a downgrade
@@frogglen6350 true that they added more boss fights but i dont think that makes the game better, the valkyries were enough for me i just wanted one bigger boss in heilheim that wouldve been similiar to one of the older games. Ragnorok rushed everything story related for side content and i think everything is worse for jt, tho obviously it has some great side boss fights, the hidden ones are also a cool improvement. Not one story boss imo holds up to the initial baldur fight kr magni and modi
''It's getting harder to critique each year because people make franchises their entire personality'' Holy shit man, you just summarized my entire thoughts on the entire problem with gaming. People make it ''theirs''. And this allows companies to get away with pumping out literal trash because they acquire these cult followings that will defend it to the death. And no franchise encapsulates this better than GOW, and Kratos fanboys in general. You literally cannot criticize a single thing about ''their'' product.
Cuz nobody who makes a critique is doing it properly. Lazarzz is one of the few who actually does it right. Also if you just search up you can find tons of videos about how ppl didn't like the game & having ppl commenting about how they agree with that.
A great game needs critique. No game is perfect. I love Ragnarok, but we can always strive to be better. Critique is a step in that direction. I hope he tears it down, so the next game in the series can have some discussion for the developers to look at and see how they can improve.
Go to expressvpn.com/lazerzz and find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free!
Ultimately, I don't hate this game, I actually really do appreciate lots of it, and in a general consumer sense I'd say I had a good time with it, it concluded well and was maybe they best they could've done under the circumstances... But that's my totally uncritical take, if a "take" is all you're looking for. If you're looking for a real deep dive into what this game did and didn't do on a very critical level then join me for this video. (Timestamps in the description).
😔😔
Do a 2 hour video for the 2018 game to because u can find alot of things wrong with that one as well in story and combat even more than ragnarok if u want to criticize a sequel do one for the first game
God of bore is inferior to elden ring
@@frogglen6350 it has a 96
You should’ve seen the Sony fanboys sending death threats to elden chads when that trash lost goty to elden goat 😂
@@lewispooper3138 losing goty to elden ring does not make other games trash elden ring is one of the greatest games ever made thats the kind of game u want to lose to I don’t think any game ever would of beat elden ring for goty
The part at the start that states "it's getting harder to critique each year because people make franchises their entire personality" is painfully true and can be seen in these very comments.
@@frogglen6350 I'd bet a large sum of money that you didn't even watch the video
@@Rakka5 if you’re spending 2 hours trying to pick at such tiny straws so specifically in order to explain why a game isn’t as good as people say…. Chances are, the game is as good as everyone says. Lol.
@@DonovanGG__ The game is shit tho. What now, Snoycel?
@@Gungrave123 just a Xbot coping lol. Why aren’t you playing Redfall right now man??? Heard that game is fantastic!🤭 and I have a lot of faith in Starfield. Those guys at Bethesda know what they’re doing. Lol
Yeah, the chat comments are hilarious. You gotta love the people that pop in just to spout some vague platitudes about criticism to invalidate other people's opinions.
My main issue with the game is that Kratos never really is in any "danger" from the prophecy that has been announced since 2018.
Wouldn't it have been kinda cool if Kratos tried to break out of Wiking hell?
@@WannabeShady90isn’t helheim exactly that in that game
@@believer1056 I don't know. I've only played the first game so far.
@@WannabeShady90 ok don’t spoil yourself, I can’t enjoy ragnarok cuz I got spoiled before I’ve even played 😭
@@believer1056 you can still enjoy it
Let me just say dude. Straight up, first things first. WHY DOES IT FEEL SO MUCH LIKE A MARVEL MOVIE HOLY S
Hahaha the more time that passes the more I wonder this 😭
Because light hearted Marvel writing and humor is beloved by the mainstream audience, that the GoW reboot clearly wants to cater to.
It was already present in the first game, but they turned it up a notch in Ragnarok.
Atreus is basically Tom Holland spider man in this game and it’s cringe
Sweet baby Inc.
Activists.
This is the best God of War Ragnarok critique I've seen. You explained why I was disapointed with the game so much better than I ever could
Oh well if it isn't the *KAPN ASS RUclipsR* 🤣 so... stole any smaller content creators videos this weekend?
Wheres ur review of ragnarok bro? Like a real review. A review like this one. I unsubbed from jon ford bc he shills for ragnarok like no other. Glad u dont shill like he does.
@@jackhauf Then after he was called out (by his own subs i might add) he changes the thumbnail. What a 🤡🤡🤡 reddit called him Kapn ass youtuber. 🤷🏻🤣🤣🤣
@God Incarnate seriously tho bro. That man boot licks to infinity and beyond. 😂 he turned off his comments on his part 1 playthrough bc ppl were exposing that his reaction was fake. He literally quoted thor telling kratos "i say when were done" 😬😬😬 it was some of the most cringe shit ever! 😂😂 i got 2nd hand embarrassment from watching.
Oh look at u. This isn't your comment section so u cant hide my comment this time. You took CookingKratos video then created generic, regurgitated, bad faith arguments to make your video look original. Example: "odin throws his raven but not to distract freya" "listen to how odin says NO when mugin dies" WHAT!?!? 🤦🤦🤦 maaaaaan *GeeeeeeeeeTFOH!* You know thats KAP! KAP! The least u could have done was give cooking kratos credit. You Kapn ass youtuber
My biggest issue is the Norse Pantheon being such a downgrade of antagonist compared to the Greek Gods. Took only two games for Kratos to deal with this mid pantheon of gods, but the action choreography was smooth though. The fight with Zeus was way more grand compared to the Odin fight
Bc this story is about relationships between ppl in families. It`s very character based so they had to bring the number of characters compared to the original trilogy
@E.G.I.L. 3D That is not a good reason to give us some antagonists that are weaker than the previous trilogy antagonists.
@@SSJKDotsSanctum Exactly. People justifying the lame ass action sequences in a franchise literally known for its grand spectacle and scale with reasons like "but it's character driven and there's growth". Every piece of modern fiction is so obsessed with this idea of faux growth. Every character needs a sob backstory to feel "relatable". Well no. I'm playing a game of Gods. I'll expect something bold in writing and world-shaking in presentation. Ragnarok failed massively on both accounts. Gow 3 was a bigger ragnarok than Ragnarok ever was.
@@lordiblees Honestly as fun as the mechanics of GoW 3 were it was far less imaginative with its characters. Its Greek Pantheon were basically predictable caricatures of those gods, especially in 3, they were cardboard cutouts for the most part. That was okay for that game, but the greek gods were only memorable for the mechanics of their fights, not as actual characters.
I don't think Ragnarok was perfect by any means, but I'd take its more creative and fleshed out approach to characters over the caricatures in the first trilogy, they wouldn't have worked well in these new games at all. If it had been 3 games rather than 2 there likely would have been more spectacle but Ragnarok was unquestionably full of some crazy big action set pieces. I'm glad they strived something new, and moving to a new thing always means something is gained and lost.
@@richardanderson8107 I respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. I don't think the characters in Greek trilogy had remarkably good writing. But each game had a central theme which the narrative was built around. In the new GoW, so many plotlines were abandoned and many things existed without serving a larger narrative purpose. Fenrir, Surtr, the Mask, Freyr, and most importantly Jormungandr who was wasted so bad.
If you take out these elements out of the game (and many more I'm forgetting), the story we're given would still be there. That's because there's no causal relationship tying everything together into a neat cohesive whole. They're just there to be there.
I didn't mean that characters should've been made superficial. I'm all for nuance and depth and frankly, Ragnarok tries hard to do that but fails because it's a game that crumbles under its own weight.
In the original trilogy, you at least had a payoff. It may have been shallow but it wasn't directionless. I'd personally take straightforward storytelling over the directionless and narratively vapid mess that is Ragnarok.
Watching this is painful, because it makes me think of how amazing a well-executed trilogy would have been.
This bro. Fucking this. I get so pissed just thinking about the disappointment again...
Gow 2018 managed to deliver greatness with very little from the mythology, they made their universe which was small, much bigger, grander and richer.
Ragnarok had it all from the mythology and delivered jackshit...
@@aristonaragao3171 What would be even worse is if we actually did get the Atreus game that people speculate about. They cut GoW short cuz they didn't want to spend 15 years on a trilogy, but if they make an Atreus game, they will have spent 15 years on it anyways 💀.
@@molsen7549Bro, you are spot on.
No not really, if it was split up people would feel blueballed as hell. There is no good place to end this game besides the ending that was given. Waiting for ragnarok for a third game would feel like we were all lied to. Its not rushed at all the game gives you so many times to chill and explore, this game is so long. I think lazzerz is pushing his own expectations for the narrative. Now the franchise has a lot of potential for the next entry and if we have to wait a long time for that I don't see the issue. The god of war series is at a good stop point.
@@aristonaragao3171 explain how it delivered jack shit
This will be a good comments section
Agreed.
These are all fair criticisms
@@anthonyworstell3768 😏😏
@@anthonyworstell3768 😏
😭😏😭
I personally liked gow2018 better in my opinion. It just seemed so much bigger and the story was excellent. Ragnarok was good but not as good as the one before it.
Facts
GoW was designed as part 1 of a trilogy. A lot changed before Ragnarok went into production so part 1 feels way more fleshed out. I still like part 2 though
Both of them are garbage and should be disposed, as should you.
Sweet baby inc
This was a great watch. While I disagree with some points, I think this video conceptually really hits the nail on the head. While playing this game it felt off and rushed despite it taking me 40~ hours to 100%. It was at war with itself and you described a lot of why it felt that way and articulated the points great.
Thank you! I really appreciate it, I loved working on this video a lot, still very proud of the product.
Geez what have I been doing lol I’m 59 hours in and only just now got the tyr reveal
@@zzodysseuszz enjoy the ride imo
I believe the actual “Ragnarok” event should’ve been its own game and they should’ve just called this one “GOW fimbulwinter”. IMO, that gives them to opportunity to really flesh out the building blocks.
Ironwood was like pulling teeth to get through and shouldn’t have been glossed over so quickly
It makes so much sense that it was meant to be a trilogy. I played God of War Ragnarok right after I finished God of War (2018) and also felt like there was too much going on compared to how streamlined the first game was. While Ragnarok had some really great moments, it sad to think that we missed out on what could have been a masterpiece of a trilogy. Anyway, really great analysis, definitely looking forward to watching more of your critique videos!
The first one was mid too
I would't say "streamlined", but rather "condensed", and not always in a good way. It's the most visible when it comes to Atreus's arc. His development is rushed to the point that even the "normies" who don't really analyze their media could feel it, with him going power-crazy once he learns he's a god, gets hit by the backlash of his own hubris, and then learns from his mistakes in the span of a few in-universe hours. You can practically see the seams where all the connecting tissue between these character beats were ripped out, leading to a terribly paced and unrealistic arc, especially in comparison to the slow burn of the first half of the game. Last I've heard, it was one of those "development hell" situations, where the issue became visible too late in the dev cycle, and they couldn't fix it, but knowing why there's dog poop on the soles of your feet doesn't make it any less stinky.
@@Horvath_Gabor definitely wasn’t condensed
@@carancole5974damn a nigga can't enjoy shit huh 😅
No it doesn’t
I hate how when you kill Heimdall, the game threats it like "you are a monster, young kratos is back, the killer of gods" but is so stupid, heimdall attacks first, threats atreus and rejects with violence kratos mercy, they HAD to kill him, just like Baldur
That’s one of the biggest problems with this game in my opinion, and it all starts with the Norns. Particularly when they say “He kills gods but now he’s sad about it”. That’s a slap in the face of GoW 2018, it’s basically saying that his character in that game is meaningless because he just kills gods anyway.
They try to make him killing Heimdall a big deal so that when he spares Thor the audience goes “Oh look Kratos is a changed man” when he does nothing out of character there.
In 2018 he fights when provoked and always tries to resolve conflict peacefully at first, killing only when necessary. When Baldur shows up at his house he tells him to go away, Magni and Modi attack him and Atreus and show no interest in talking or stopping the fight until they’re dead, at the end he even tries to talk to Baldur again, telling him to not kill Freya but that proves to be useless, leaving him no choice but to kill him.
It's a shame this game gets worse the more you think about it. Imagine if it was a fully fleshed trilogy.
Truly, I was so disappointed with it. The first game is so well written and paced. It left so many possibilities for the second game and none of them were ever conceived. It’s a shame that one half of the series is so perfectly accomplished and the other is just a failed monstrosity of a game that couldn’t accomplish or build upon what the made the first game so good. I was genuinely pissed when the credits rolled in Midgard with the score playing in the background. I could only think of how the score doesn’t deserve to be played with this game, it deserves better. Walking down the hill after it ended with the beautiful music playing in the back was one of the most disappointing moments of my entire life, every aspect of this game was amazing except for the direction and writing.
@@tigeroyer7789i don’t have an issue with the story it may not be so good but I don’t think is that bad either my biggest upset are the god fights I was hoping for a bad ass heimdall fight a spectacular Thor fight a glorious Odin fight and a legendary ragnarok war but no instead we got lazy boring ugly design boss battles this game had the potential to be the best in the series why barlog why you left us😭
It honestly could have worked as a duology, Ragnarok should've been 40 or 50 hours for the base game.
The game is a 10/10 for me, the problem is not the entire game
It's the ending.
We're talking about the goddamn Ragnarok, so obviously everything before was used to build up hype for the coming of it.
The problem is that they made everything in the game so good, that they probably ran out of budget for the ending. Just think about how good the first fight against Thor was, and compare it to the second...
As y'all already said, the writing is terrible, the bossfights are the most disappointing thing on the face of the planet, the atmosphere of the Ragnarok was non existent.
Ragnarok should've had the villains as Heimdall and Thor and the third game should've been just Odin as the villain.
I knew he didn't like it but calling it a disaster was unexpected 💀 I will enjoy this video
I know right, I wonder whats his thoughts about tlou2🤷♂️
@@samuelesquivel6202 tlou2 clears Ragnarok tho
@@brianhardy3759 what u mean with clears?
@@samuelesquivel6202 who knows, maybe you should watch his video about it
@@samuelesquivel6202It means he's a troll because as diverse as this earth is, and as good of a game tlou2 was, no real person would hold that opinion.
The Freya and Kratos conversation in the first vanaheim visit where they just try to out trauma dump the other is unintentionally so funny
Half expected them to hook up after they finished trauma dumping on each other for the entire mission
It was so shit. I never thought they would actually shit on the past of Kratos like that. The biggest point of who Kratos is as a person was used as a passing conversation.
@@gurnoorsekhon6402Everything that involves the past in this game is so under the covers, I hate it.
"be grateful you have a home to remember fondly, i killed my own family bitch"
Yeah is funny because Kratos tells about how he kinda kills all his family but Freya is more "sad" because she emmm is a woman?
I Lost my brother, i fight my Monster mother and kill my daughter and wife
Yeah but i Loss more !
Literally
After finishing the game for the first time, I just felt empty. I’d been waiting for this game for 4 years and it just didn’t sit right with me.
I got so bored while playing it and so didn't enjoy the gameplay that I couldn't finish it and it wasn't based on difficulty I just genuinely did not enjoy the game play, it felt off and the bosses I fought we're pretty lame to me ive liked the gow franchises for a long time I remember playing all the them and the fourth was pretty nice to me also but this one was not it I didn't like a lot of parts of the story because of how boring they were and the good ones didn't outweigh the bad ones enough for me to want to keep playing it. I genuinely felt like it was a waste of time and money and its the first time this has happened to me with a gow game and just like this dude said I gave it a try, I wanted to like it really bad because I've loved gow ever since I was young but I just couldn't find any enjoyment from this one and I'm glad some I'm not the only one that feels this way and as for the ones who DID enjoy it well good for them at least to then it won't have ruined their gow experience like it did for me
@@dylan6996Exactly I waited 4 years to see the fucking Ragnarok, the war across the realms.... And then I obtain a 20 min segment with lazy boss design.
Huh, same thing with SHadow of the Erdtree yet everyone is coping and saying " that's how you're supposed to feel " 😂
Cuz they should of made it a trilogy. They crammed too much into too short a game. They either needed to make it a trilogy or make ragnarok twice as long.
@@dylan6996 It's because they crammed too much into the game and made it too short. They should of made it longer or made it a trilogy. Also Sony Santa Monica consulted Sweet Baby Inc. So the game couldn't be super mean with words and had to have proper representation to the real world because we all know this game takes place in the real world and we gotta jam real world politics into it.
Ragnarok felt... Anti-clamactic. Before I felt it was because the "war" itself was so small and short, but your video made these feelings make more sense:
The story had no room to breathe, so I was rushed all the way until the end only to realize... That was it? I was being trained to expect story beat after story beat being _beaten_ into my head with no subtlety, even within the optional side content, that finally hitting the end left it feeling empty.
I already know I'm not going to agree with this lmao
But James always explains his takes well so I will watch in its entirety and comment for the algorithm. Get that RUclips money!
That RUclips money is the only real reason he's doing this, after all.
i just finished the game and my biggest problem is how wrong it feels to explore compared to 2018. having to put aside the prophecized death of Kratos to go free a big chained up river monster thing or atreus asking to go explore RIGHT BEFORE YOU MEET THE RAGNAROK TROOPS? i literally didnt do any side quests while playing the main story because i felt like it would completely ruin the immersion. it makes so much more sense exploring after the end of the game, but then you cant do it with the actual person you want to do the exploration with (Atreus) and youre stuck with a Freya whos friendship didnt even feel earned
fax
Freya: "Hey Kratos, want a glass of water?"
Kratos: "Water...I crossed over water before I KILLED MY OWN FAMILY!!!"
Lel
I agree with a lot of points in this video, but one thing I don’t see too many people bring up is how miserable actually traversing the world is. People usually complain about the slow transitions where you need to crawl under or through something, and those ARE awful, but there’s also the incredibly slow and restrictive climbing and super narrow paths. With how twisty and maze-like the levels can be, especially in Vanaheim and the Applecore, these issues are only exasperated. Slowly clambering your way around the environment feels so much worse when you realize you accidentally went the wrong way and need to backtrack through it all again.
To be fair, GOW 2018 had many of these issues too, but it was made less painful there due to much better pacing and less obtuse design.
100%ing vanaheim made me want to bash my skull in
@@frogglen6350 ive beaten every single one. even with the worst areas like blighttown they still somehow are less of a pain to navigate. but thanks for the input lil dude
@@nomorepartiezz That's just goofy. If you find vanaheim to be a bigger problem than blightown you have personal issues with the game
@@nomorepartiezz i think you just don’t like god of war then 💀💀
gowr had better traversal tho..
Also, another issue with your video I wanted to add was that you really mixup what subtext and disclosure is. Kratos openly discussing his trauma and past with Freya is a direct result of what he feels he owes her. She saved atreus from an incurable illness and so, in his new role as a guardian figure, he feels he can disclose his past. Its a huge mark of his progress as a person and should not go understated.
I feel like james perspective on writing is too much informed from what you learn in creative writing in english. It’s like he just learnt about “show don’t tell” and is now just applying that rule everywhere while massively ignoring context
@LEAQWA "Show don't tell is an amazing technique, but at some point, the actors need to speak." -my creative writing/theater teacher.
@@leaqwa4812 Thank you. Couldn’t agree more. Its unfortunate really.
I had issues with the direction they went with Odin and Thor and the overall final act of the game. But Yeah I felt the stuff between Kratos/Atreus and Kratos/Freya were top notch. These dialogues in vanaheim do take you back specially if you played the old games a long time ago, but not in a cheap, nostalgia-bait way, they do feel earned for the reasons you mentioned.
Its not fitting to Kratos’s character. Him openly discussing that he killed his family, it just wouldn’t happen.
My favorite part of Kratos' journey was not the end, but the part where Atreus yells at him "you never wanted to do this with me" and Kratos said "and yet I'm still here".
Is deeper than they may have meant
meaning the audience wants Kratos to stay but devs want to remove him but cant
@@beastmasterbg I guess you can't see things from an in-universe standpoint. Oh, well.
I felt like I was going crazy that this game was no way near as good as everyone kept telling me.
that's how I felt w elden ring
@@Thonato420 I've literally just started that game I hope it's not a waste of time.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 i loved elden ring but i do think its a little too big and a little too long.
how much value you get out of it will probably depend on how experienced you are with fromsoft games or if you arent, how open minded you are to a game that doesn’t hold your hand and wants you to learn how to overcome its obstacles on your own
@@wingsoffreedom3589 Well Elden Ring is a whole different beast, i think it's perfect but not for everyone, hell i will don't even recommend it to my friends.
@@nomorepartiezz it's my first soulsbourne type game ever I just got out of the tunnel into the open world and I have no idea what to do from here.
The point you made about side quests at 27:30 and throughout Part 5 are points I highly disagree with, the side quests in Ragnarök also add to the story, there’s even a line of dialogue in Aelfihiem where Mimir points out that Kratos is doing all of these side activities as a way to spend more time with Atreus while he can (before his prophesied death). Kratos as well as the player know that this can’t last forever, Kratos and Atreus will be separated somehow, so Kratos wants to spend time with Atreus doing what he enjoys, helping others and exploring realms, which is exactly what the side content is. You as a player are rewarded with both loot, but also seeing the relationship these three have grown to have, while it still lasts.
Guess you didn’t watch the whole video, he brings up that specific line of dialogue
@Tigeroyer he probably Commeted when he heard it. Leave bro alone
@@Wanteyt yeah that’s what happened, I wrote the comment when I was only a half hour in, then edited it to mention Part 5. While he does bring up that line of dialogue he kinda just dismisses it as an “excuse” which isn’t something I get at all. The game gives you the motivation to do side stuff right there, Kratos wants to spend the limited time he (thinks) he has left by adventuring through the realms and helping people, the things Atreus loves doing most. I think that’s plenty good reason to do the side stuff, and I can’t think of any better story explanation
@@e-scope I think a problem for me with that line is it is directly told to us instead of making that conclusion on our own through a subtle line of it. Just like he said in the video subtly will always be better. There was no need for it to be said directly, and there was no better writing reason for them to explain it away. Instead of making it a character point that kratos is trying to do more good, which would fit in more with his character for the rest of the game, they just say he wants to spend more time with Atreus.
Which he might, but it was a missed opportunity to show some character growth, it wasn’t subtle, and it was shoe horned in.
Ye I agree I think that it also contributes to the world building greatly, if anything I feel like they should’ve added more side quests and expanded on some other quests aswell such as fayes one
Listening to James talk about Ragnarok's handling of prophecy like he's a half insane scientist is an actual privilege
........... He's an idiot. Prophecy is just a highly accurate guess based on if the major players of that prophecy keep to their natures without altering them. Often their toxic natures.
Freya couldn't overcome her overprotectiveness.
Baldur couldn't overcome his madness and hatred.
Odin couldn't overcome his paranoia.
Kratos overcame his more monstrous behaviors. Atreus overcame his recklessness. Angboda made herself important to events.
Freya ultimately overcame her vindictiveness.
Kratos, atreus, angerboda, and freya overcoming their toxic natures allowed them to shift the direction of the prophecy. They could not prevent asgard's death, cause odin's inability to overcome himself is what ensured its destruction.
As I was playing Vanaheim, I actually got really invested with the dialogue between Freya and Kratos. As a player, we likely feel how Atreus feels about her as he desperately wants to set things right. He even goes alone to visit her, knowing well that it puts him into danger. Kratos knows she's important to him.
Then we get to the Vanaheim section. Kratos and Freya must work together and tensions are very high at first. Freya is still full of emotion and could snap at any moment. Kratos, knowing what's going on with her and owing a great debt to her for saving his son, starts to explain his past to her. As a player, we of course know all this, but Freya was genuinely surprised by some of things he says. As I ventured further into Vanaheim, tension was lessening as both characters are opening up. I thought it was well done. It wouldn't make sense if she decided to kill Kratos as suggested in this video.
Atreus' reaction (or lack thereof) to her being at Sindri's house was very disappointing though. Just acknowledged in a throwaway line while in Asgard.
Why? Atreus is clearly a selfish, rude, arrogant little shit, always fighting others at every turn.
He doesn't care about her, especially when his own interests are forming.
He sought her out only to have an ally and to "rebel" against kratos.
If atreus slowed down, thought things out and communicated about what he knew he may wake up.
Or better yet, atreus may ask how Freya was.
ok
I don't think the freya's moment was done well. She keeps saying "shut up, man" and then it seems like they're a team, but she's only in it for odin, but then in the end she says they're family
Like, whaaaaaaat. There's isn't even a development on that, it's just thrown on the story
All tied up in an hour. How convenient for the plot.
I'm finding this game really really boring. Same thing over and over. I'm only enjoying it when I'm in my wee canoe
*GIVE ME MY 2 HOURS BACK!*
Like seriously, what a waste of air/space of a video.
Most of it is crying about the story because… it isn’t what you wanted and tried to create a narrative… around twisting facts shown from dev interviews to them wield the information incorrectly and manipulate the given information.
And then there is the gameplay section. Not only does it defy logic in a stupid way. Games are mostly supposed to let newcomers get into speed, so the Fimbulwinter explanation is 120% welcome here! If that is really an issue I guess gaming in general must be bad for the guy and it will continue that way in the future.
For example I’m expecting a semi-reset for FF7 Resequel Part 2, I won’t start with 3 Gutten accessories for constant limit breaks at the start of fights.
Or going back to GOW R, it’s coherent, you don’t have to play most of the game to unlock the blades, yet gameplay isn’t 1:1 to 2018. In 2018 and mastery of the combat you’ll quickly notice that bare hands was a complete skill tree which mostly focused on posture damage which made it necessary for optimal play. Ragnarok almost completely deleted this style of optimal play yet I noticed a lot more necessity for parrying in GOWR to build up that posture.
And OF COURSE! GOW R was lead by the Combat Designer of the Original GOW, so of course gameplay has massively improved for Ragnarok by giving a higher emphasis on aggression and nonstop action!
Not to mention this goes beyond gameplay. Kratos in GOW R is a lot more faithful to the old games! From call backs in dialogue to his struggles/PTSD in the story!
And to take a page from this review, 2018 wasn’t by any means a complete victory and there was a lot of trouble in paradise while developing it. But instead of manipulating that information I’ll just applaud how the end product was universally beloved and how the director of 2018 was smart enough to leave behind plans of how the story was supposed to go, essentially making 2018 and 2022 2 United and coherent stories unlike many other modern franchises *cough* SW and MCY *cough* .
So if somehow you read this and are not far into the video please take this advice!
1, go use your time whatever else. 2, go read the actual Norse mythology to understand nods and reinterpretation made by the game to elevate the experience! 3, Go play the old games of GOW, available on PS Premium if you lack access to PS2/3.
If you have done all of the above then I guess you’re free to watch this video… or explore more option on step 1… or use this video as a Podcast while doing step 1 cause you’re not missing anything with the “c word” IRL sketches.
Take care internet stranger. Hope you found this helpful.
Of course I couldn’t pick apart every aspect of a 2 hour video, but I insist. You won’t gain almost any new info/perspective from this video if you already followed the information released post launch or seen the reviews of critics, both positive and negative, shortly after release.
To end this on a positive note about the game.
I personally completely applaud this game for taken so much attention to the endgame. Playing both from a mostly Freya and mostly Atreus companionship, it’s crazy how they managed to pull something so ambitious while also making it feel so natural IMO!
And also the journey to 100% was super fun and respectful compared to other games.
Hogwarts Legacy is destroying my souls with 100% items. But GOWR made me enjoy full completion, from the classic Super Bosses times 2. And the journey to the crater was simply wonderful. Very hard to get stuck on yet with every turn of a corner I found something new worth exploring, like the Dragon Boss Bogaloo, more collectibles, Kratos on Mortal Kombat dialogue and the Deers of the 4 seasons.
Brought me back to some of my favorite areas in gaming like DS3’s Nameless King area “Earthen peak”.
His review isn't perfect but the majority of what he says makes sense, Ragnarok's overall story was poor but all the cutscenes are pretty good so it's easy to get fooled into thinking the story was well done. I feel like Ragnarok's story was more interesting than 2018's but it has way more flaws.
@@Epictook “easy to get fooled” isn’t the correct answer.
If you turn off your brain, then it’s easy to say “most of what he says makes sense” in any form of video game essay video, not just this video.
But to provide yet another example. Just tell me how many times did he scream “WHAT” at every dialogue when interacting with the Norns.
In general, making this sorts of videos you can make any story either seem really good or really bad. No video game story is either completely flawed or flawless when you have a narrative and use a “magnified glass” to look at every story section… specially when the person looking is blind.
Or for reference look at other reviewers and look at how they spin the narrative. At some points you have to ask how much these videogame essays delude the story to something it isn’t.
Or perhaps the insulting ways they present it. This dude going off ramblings like quick “you actually have the right opinion if you’re with me” or a quick “this doesn’t make sense” joke when showing raw footage of the story.
When they do this once or twice in the video it can be comedic. But when they do this all the time in the video in comes off as back handed and childish.
And because videos aren’t a 2 way conversation it’s super easy for the viewer to just turn of their brain and nod at every “Criticism”.
This dude is no better than the likes of Synthetic Man on the way the insert themselves and their reality instead of reviewing a game by their merits alone.
In this case, remember that the title was originally different and was even more clickbait on why the game is bad.
Yet the current title is still clickbait yet it’s more “less sincere” clickbait.
And with this… I want to conclude this essay, holy hell my original comment was all we should expect a reader to read and then some.
If anyone read all my comments, thanks for doing so and I admire your attention span.
@@Epictook “easy to get fooled” isn’t the correct answer.
If you turn off your brain, then it’s easy to say “most of what he says makes sense” in any form of video game essay video, not just this video.
But to provide yet another example. Just tell me how many times did he scream “WHAT” at every dialogue when interacting with the Norns.
In general, making this sorts of videos you can make any story either seem really good or really bad. No video game story is either completely flawed or flawless when you have a narrative and use a “magnified glass” to look at every story section… specially when the person looking is blind.
Or for reference look at other reviewers and look at how they spin the narrative. At some points you have to ask how much these videogame essays delude the story to something it isn’t.
Or perhaps the insulting ways they present it. This dude going off ramblings like quick “you actually have the right opinion if you’re with me” or a quick “this doesn’t make sense” joke when showing raw footage of the story.
When they do this once or twice in the video it can be comedic. But when they do this all the time in the video in comes off as back handed and childish.
And because videos aren’t a 2 way conversation it’s super easy for the viewer to just turn of their brain and nod at every “Criticism”.
This dude is no better than the likes of Synthetic Man on the way the insert themselves and their reality instead of reviewing a game by their merits alone.
In this case, remember that the title was originally different and was even more clickbait on why the game is bad.
Yet the current title is still clickbait yet it’s more “less sincere” clickbait.
And with this… I want to conclude this essay, holy hell my original comment was all we should expect a reader to read and then some.
If anyone read all my comments, thanks for doing so and I admire your attention span.
@@Epictook short version.
Please, use your critical thinking when watching videogame essays. It’s easy as a viewer to just mindlessly consume.
Just watch like the first 10 minutes of any section like gameplay while asking questions and you’ll realize how wrong this is!
Okay at this point I'm post sponsor segment. I can't help but notice that you've become incredibly bitter over the course of the video. Most of your criticism comes across as you have a narrative you want to push, so you're only considering how to frame the events in the game in the most negative light.
Atreus sweeping "why Freya is at the house" under the rug can make sense in a multitude of ways. The most straightforward one being that he doesn't want to imagine what Kratos and Freya might have been doing. Other reason might be that he doesn't think the reason why is nearly as important as the fact that she IS at the house and IS helping them/Kratos is to him.
You're really hating on Brok for some reason, you say he has no empathy, but that's clearly not true. Even in the first game he asks about his brother, initially in round-about ways. Afterwards he becomes more direct, asking if he's eating well at least. In addition he has some of the wittiest remarks in the game, add to that his witty insults and you've got an endearing character. Don't know why you are so dismissive of him.
On to the Champion bit, they clearly do imply who the actual Champion is. It's Kratos, the character is depicted with the Draupnir spear, not arrows. Atreus mistook them as arrows, probably because he wanted to be the champion of the Jotnarr. Kratos doesn't want to be the champion, but he becomes it anyway. Not just of the Jotnarr, but of all the realms.
You go on and on about the champion bit, claiming they should constantly reinforce it. It really isn't all that important in the grand narrative of the story. It's just a title. It's the actions that Kratos takes that matter. It's what makes him the champion of the Jotnarr and what drives the plot and story forward. I assume this is what you mean by focus, considering the amount of time you spent criticising this minor part of the story. If this is the amount of focus you demand of the story, then I can only say I'm glad they are not as focused as you want them to be, in the way that you want them to be.
The Mimir bit, it's about what the character feels about a wrong they committed in the past, and telling that to someone they not only trust, but value and admire. He's telling Kratos this because he regrets it and because he doesn't want Kratos to think lesser of him. He wants Kratos to understand he is no longer that wilful youthful idiot. You contrast that with a 2018 clip saying that you can never be free from your chains and that is what Kratos implies. Except it isn't, Kratos clearly "implies" - if you can really even call it that, as it is quite a direct statement - that he is no longer bound by the chains Athena used on him. In other words he is free, he might still be a "monster", but one no longer bound by his monstrous past. He has freed himself from his chains and is now actively working to become a better person and father. It's kinda ironic that you harp on and on, but completely misinterpret the actual subtext.
The Freya bit, this could have been better. It could have also been worse. What we got was actually pretty damn good. The irony for me is that the story beat you came up with was what I expected them to do. But instead they went the redemption route, showing that even Freya can change her nature. Which is in theme with the rest of the story. You are right though. The acting is phenomenal. Freya and Kratos gradually start trusting one another more and more. It's clear from their dialogue and their tone, especially on Freya's side. It's not nearly as abrupt as you make it out to be.
And now you're full on contradicting your earlier point. Saying the game never overtly says what you want it to say, it only implies. (1:28:36)
Meaning that if the game is blatant it's bad, but if they're subtle (a thing you claim is always better, it isn't btw) it's also bad. At this point it's clear you've really soured on the game for some reason, but it has become less and less clear throughout this video. You never seem to address the problems you have with the game in more than a very shallow framing. It seems to be mostly empty, vapid arguments one after the other.
Atreus has become awkward. Yes he has, it's part of growing up. He's trying to find himself, find who he is, how he is and is trying to fit in. His attempts at humour might fall flat, but did you expect him interacting with Mimir on a daily basis for years to have zero effect on his character?
Freya says Dwarven magic makes no sense, because the Dwarven magic system is completely alien to her. It doesn't map onto her Vanir magic in any way shape or form. It isn't her trying to be funny.
Angrboda being a socially awkward recluse makes complete sense, she literally is. She doesn't have anyone to interact with other than the animals around her. And animals aren't exactly know for their stellar conversational skills.
The Odin "mob boss" statement is fairly accurate, that seems to be exactly what they were going for. It also makes sense with his interactions with Thor and the rest of his family. He sees them all as tools. But he's distinctly different from what we normally get from such characters. He's far more of a narcissist. He doesn't care about his family other than their capacity as tools. (we get that right at the beginning of the game). You will not get "Look how they massacred my boy" out of him. He is a subversion of the standard trope, but I don't know why you think they're trying to be funny with him. They're trying to show he will and can manipulate everyone around him to get what he wants, as that is the only thing he cares about. He's only funny and witty to the extend that it furthers his goal.
Once you've been around a group of people long enough it's completely normal to quip back and forth. I'd at least expect you to understand bants mate.
This comment should be the most voted one. Excellent points.
I realized about a week after I played the game that for most of it I was just going along with it because it was the new GOW and I needed to play it. I wasn't really interested in where the story was going most of the time and was only really hooked in at the first and last 3 hours. It's disappointing because I don't think the core game play systems are bad by anymeans, it's just that the characters felt like they were in a filler episode of TV 80 percent of the time. This game didn't leave me with any strong feelings, not love, not hate, not admiration, nothing.
I felt exactly the same thing, you described it better than I could.
Like I really just went along with it after the first 2 hours because it was the new GoW game and I had to play it because I was so excited for it and waited so much time. Also combined with all the hype and unanswered questions the 2018 gave me.
Plus I totally agree with the second part of your comment, the small number of characters on 2018 all felt carefully written, designed and meaningful, while in Ragnarok it was like watching a TV show with an overflow of poor quality characters coming on the scene with no clear set target.
The characters are some of the best in gaming
I agree man ironwood almost broke me lol if it wasn't for the side quests and the strong ending i would've hated this game. I pretty much hated every Atreus mission
@@36090pburkeironwood was paced badly but Tht doesn’t mean Atreus sections were bad lol, the combat for Atreus was surprisingly really good, the narrative was also strong meeting Heimdall and how Odin was able to manipulate him
Because it's rushed, shallow and formulaic to the point of IP hijacking to make money by appealing to the lowest common denominator of gamer and children.
About an hour in, and honestly the beginning was really great and hit all the notes of why ragnarok has its issues but then we got to the part about fate and messaging and im sitting here like… “did we play the same game?” It was obvious to me in the beginning that the messaging was “Fate and prophecy doesn’t exist, the choices you make and who you are as a person decides what the future is” The norns could not predict everything. Even in the scene with them they say things like “kratos holds the urge to groan… he fails”. And when they were told that he killed bauldr to protect Freya, they didn’t see that coming either, just dismissed it as “so what he feels guilty about it now so should we give him a crown?”.
Also, the inclusion of the final mural where faye had rewrote kratos ending gives supporting evidence tha Faye is actively trying to change Krato’s path, hence the dream sequences.
And the conclusion of that section. “You can do that apparently, its just that simple.” Is it though? We just watched the characters go through exactly line by line of the prophecy up until the very very very last 10minutes of the game… After 30hours in 2018 and 45hours in this game. Was it actually that simple to rewrite fate? We see them try multiple times. Avoiding Bauldrs death, avoiding killing Heindall, avoiding Ragnarok… it all fails… time and time and time again. It wasn’t until they finally made a decision to change who they are at the core. That the ending changed ever so slightly (odin instead of Kratos in Artreus’s arms) but I wouldn’t call changing your core personality an easy feat.
Sidenote, not all the internal shrines were “the real truth about the characters” they were just more in depth explanations with more details about the events that happen and might happen. Only Groa’s painting I believe have a different ending because Groa had to lie to Odin. The shrines are available to all Jotnars, that includes Angrboda and all the other Giants who have escaped the realms that may one day want to know what really happened. Not just “its just for Artreus/Loki”
The character plot of Kratos not doing anything is valid, but you also have to remember his core belief: “HE DOESN’T WANT HIS SON TO GO TO WAR”. Thats why he does nothing and is reactive. He is doing the bare minimum without losing his son because his son has already snuck out without his knowledge. Even early in the game Mimir advises him that “hey if you don’t stop holding youre son back, youre gonna lose him”. He is terrified of losing his family again.
While there are a lot of points this critique makes are very valid. I feel like you are so obsessed with the “this should’ve been two game, not one” concept that you are almost finding extra reasons from what is happening behind the scenes at the studio that you forgot to actually sit and listen to the story being told. Was it crammed? Yes, but the story is definitely not as disastrous and broken as you claimed it to be
Edit: wow, maybe the reason why its so critical is because not a full play-through was done. Comment about Freyr’s “just being accepted that they like him there” well there was a whole entire story arc in Alfheim with Mimir and Freya that told why he is revered there. Guess that was missed
"No,you're wrong, the point is that prophecy and fate aren't real! Also, you're wrong because changing fate, which doesn't exist, was really, really hard!" Thanks for proving that the game was contradictory on this point.
The game had a perfect start and had a very dark and apocalyptic atmosphere during the fight with Thor but after that the game didnt feel like the end of the world as the tittle of the game suggested.
God of war needs a directors cut!
I would pay 100$ for it to be as it planned to be.
Don’t change the gamplay. Change the story and add some important stuff..
It probably never happen, though… one can only wonder how awesome it could be
This always happens when an industry reaches a point of stagnation , consumers overvalue products. The beauty of mathematics proves this happens with stocks but i didn't think i would see thr same exact phenomenon in the industry i love
watching this painfully mediocre game get almost unilateral praise was painful. If a mid 6/10 experience garners such responses, why would anyone in the industry strive to do better?
1:25:30 Under no circumstance would Kratos ever kill Freya. He would easily let himself be killed than unnecessarily kill, especially reflecting on his past. Replacing Freyas death for heimdalla death is unnecessary and out of character.
Also, the last exchange between freya and krate was actually pretty damn good and bad nuance that this guy completely ignored. The final similarity that being kratos himself being denied the choice between life and death which is what kickstarted this franchise, freya even seems to understands kratos similar experience with her via a smile which just adds so much to that scene IMO. I agree that the talks before had no nuance or subtlety but their last talk(aside from the freya “IM ANGRY” speech) was great.
Exactly. Like that time he lets those hungry people kill him in GOW 2018 instead of mercilessly tearing them in half. Kratos is a good boy now, not a warrior at all and it's not like he has someone he needs to stay alive to take care of. God, it's so easy to manipulate you people.
Really interesting video. An intriguing title since I played through the whole game once at launch and haven't touched it since. Having thoroughly enjoyed it I was surprised to find myself nodding in agreement with a lot of the criticisms laid out and, while I still consider it a good experience for me, it was surprising just how many flaws I'd either missed entirely or overlooked. Regardless of your intention not necessarily being to convince anyone of anything, really thought provoking analysis for me and an excellent piece of work 👍
yep thats what makes it fascinating how the game impacts people differently
also i think the affect and replaiability the game has will change what people think in the future, and also what the next game will be.
Glad to see someone can enjoy the game but still see the points in the arguments Said without feeling attacked. Good on you
I’m in the same boat, loved the game, finished. But haven’t played it since. Weird considering I still got a lot to finish post game
You perfectly summed up how this video effected me and how I geel about the game overall
I havent played this game yet so I cant speak for this one but I do find if you just blow through a game one time and then move on as long as the game was decently good youll have a pretty good outlook on it but say you really enjoy it and play through it multiple times your opinions will change throughout those most likely. I absolutely loved Jedi Survivor, first playthrough I was in love with the whole thing,at the end of doing 4 playthroughs there are alot of flaws that I didnt see the first time,nothing that massively changed how I felt about the game but I feel I could see it clearly after that.
Holy shit your fans really need to become their own people. 99 percent of all of the comments in here and your other videos are variations of " I felt the same way" " you are so well articulated" "x minutes in and I agree with you" not only that but calling the game a disaster is simply disingenuous. I didn't like elden ring but the game isn't a disaster by any means.
"no sex"
I hated what they did to the norse pantheon, as a kid i was a huge mythology nerd so i loved the stories of the norse gods that i read in some edas.
Odin? He is the villain, he has no honor, he is a scheming, squallid wimp who is humilliated all the time and meets a pathetic death.
Thor? Depressed alcoholic, very similar to marvel's Thor.
Týr, god of war? "Nah dude, let's just turn him into a pacifist who practices tai-chi to relax lol".
Jörmmund and Fenrir? They're not world-ending threats, they're good guys and serve no purpose other than eye candy.
Baldur, god of light? Annoying one dimmentional asshole meant to be unlikable so the player won't feel bad when it's time to kill him off, (same for Heimdall) Freya is his soccer mom now.
Ragnarök? Never actually happens... The other godesses do nothing but give exposition and whyne.
No accents or idioms either, everyone speaks like a modern day californian.
It's like they hated the Norse myths and just wanted to humuiliate it's legends and icons.
This
Maybe Santa Monica should be cancelled for cultural appropriation? 😂😅
The story just feel far too different compared with the first- tone, dialogue, the prevalent American culture and accents, underwhelming and plain boss battle apart from Thor, garm and nidhogg. little to no improvement in gameplay, combat mechanics removed and shield system unrefined and messy. They had it right the first time. Weak Odin. My biggest one is. Lack of friggin scale just to be turned into an MCU emotional dialogue fest. I could they couldn't be bothered designing a game with epic scale but would rather just talk alot and walk alot. A disappointment overall
My main issue with GOW is that the Norse Gods just don't come across as gods compared with the Greek ones but at most demi-gods, even Freya and Odin who display the highest levels of power don't seem like gods but more like sorcerers.
yup just random hobos.
They weren’t supposed to be portrayed that way. They also can’t anyways because god of war 4 and 5 are more slowed pace. The charcters don’t have to be destroying everything every time they walk to prove there powerful.
@@drvictorvondooooom103almost like people don't like interpretations of mythos.
@@belodrin3550 what I’m sayin
I knew something was wrong with this game when I realised that whole Joutunheim part that brought the story to a screeching stop took me longer to get through than the big finale both games were leading up to.
I'm sorry but I didn't give a shit about Angrboda and her stupid grandma in the GoW Disney edition section. If they really wanted to condense 3 games into 2 I don't understand at all why this particular part took up such a huge amount of time when it really could have been about 15 minutes long.
Also doesn't help that Angrboda herself is a dumbass character that tells Atreus he can't tell Kratos about Jotunheim but then randomly appears all jovially when Thor and one of Odin's ravens are literally meters away while Atreus is out on a mission with them but that's a rant for another day.
Anyway, game is okay, not a masterpiece at all.
calling gowr a disaster is flat out wrong. an analysis critique means you are actively trying to find a flaw in what you are criticizing and analyzing. overall good video and while i do agree that there are things in the game that arent as good as other parts of the game (specifically ironwood) but its easy to find a flaw in any game as there will never be a game that is completely perfect. it definitely is a good game and i think your expectations were kinda skewed after gow2018. its obvious gowr was going to be more of gow2018 due to it being a sequel with not many or any major changes. exploration, combat, the way the story is made, all of it was always going to be similar. i dont know what you were expecting with gowr but i dont think calling any game that was contending for goty a disaster is any good way to for people to see your point. It was kinda a hard watch due to the title of the vide cause im already going in with the impression that you will have unrealistic expectaions that are extremely nitpicky and that detracts from what your trying to say
There was nothing nitpicky about what he said the story was terrible
@@skane260 i agree the story wasnt all that. Not an amazing story but most certainly a passable story but last time i checked a game is not just its story.
Oh, so you were going in with false expectations? You shouldn't do that. And you seem to entirely misunderstand his point; yes, he wanted it all to be very similar, that was precisely his expectation, but it wasn't.
@@BWMagus going into a video with expectations is quite literally the point of a title. To get people to click and to tell those who are thinking about clicking, roughly what the video is about. And how is gowr not similar to gow2018? The novelty of 2018 wore off cause it’s a sequel with the same game mechanics and story telling but with subtle changes. The formula from 2018 to gowr hasn’t changed. I don’t think gowr was vastly different from gow2018
Joseph Anderson will either be very angry or very impressed that you managed to beat him to the chase! I’m glad at least you were both on the same page with how you felt’
For real, I am also really looking forward for Joseph's review, although he mentioned in a stream playing Ragnarok months ago that if he didn't finish it in a few days, he just wouldn't make a review on it. Not entirely sure if he meant it seriously or sarcastically.
For this to actually work well as a duology, 2018 needed to do more set up. 2018 is such a small, tight story that has very little to do with ragnarok. This forces ragnarok to bloat itself to fill the role of part 2 and 3 of the story
Hard agree on this. 2018 was a much more personal journey that felt like it was there to set the ball rolling for the larger plot and introduce us to the setting and characters. This is exactly the approach you would take at the start of a trilogy. Ragnorock was definitely meant to be spread over two games but cramming them into a single game make it feel so much more rushed and less developed. The fact that Freya went on a multi year revenge quest trying to kill Kratos only to then immediately forgive him is insane. That arc could have taken up a whole game on it's own.
There was plenty of setup in 2018, half of the game was setup. The setup doesn't work when the next game literally makes it a point to dismiss and retcon all of it. Ragnarok could never work as a sequel because it objectively is not a sequel to the game that came before it. It's an unfaithful reboot of a faithful reboot.
One HUGE issue with the game that cannot be explained away or justified in any way, is the extremely lackluster final act. HOW DID THEY SCREW UP THE TITULAR EVENT SO BADLY? I was giving the game a significant amount of benefit of the doubt up until Ragnarok. It was at that point that any goodwill I had towards the narrative dissipated, and it became obvious to me that development of the game must have been a mess in a lot of ways. If I was a project manager or a producer responsible for this game, it would be a no-brainer to me that Ragnarok itself MUST be the one part of the game that is knocked out of the park above all else. Instead, it's easily the most disappointing part of the experience, and actually makes the rest of the game worse. It makes the universe feel incredibly small, considering we only see 2 Norse gods during Ragnarok, who were already major parts of the plot, which makes it feel like the Norse pantheon was basically just like 8 people with an army of einherjar. There's some throwaway lines about "lesser aesir," and some of the other members of the pantheon are described in stories told be Mimir, but it really doesn't justify making it so that barely any of the Norse pantheon has screen time.
If we compare the amount of gods shown in the Norse games to the original trilogy, it's not even comparable. The Norse games absolutely should have been a trilogy, they should have actually made an effort to represent the entirety of the Norse mythos, and they damn well should have made the event of Ragnarok something more than 45ish minutes of weak spectacle. As it stands, we get to the end of Ragnarok and all I could think was "That's it?" They were more interested in telling a personal story about Kratos and Boy than actually giving us an interesting story about an outsider finding his way into Norse mythology. Atreus being Loki was a horrible decision that deprived us of running up against what most people would consider the most interesting Norse deity, thereby even further shortening the already short list of Aesir we see. At least I had plenty of fun with the combat, but I really don't have any desire to do another playthrough and suffer through the disappointing plot again. The focus of the series used to be bringing mythos to life and using it as a fun vessel for spectacle and gameplay. The focus has now shifted to an intimate "Father, son" story that the devs will sacrifice everything else for the sake of, which is pretty disappointing, and even that intimate plot feels rushed because they were so insistent they tell this story in 2 games.
@@frogglen6350 I would be a lot happier if we even just laid eyes upon more of the Aesir pantheon, or more of the Vanir. The world of the two most recent games feels really small because of how few Aesir are represented. Even if you didn't fight a huge number of the Greek gods, the fact that a fairly sizable amount of the Greek pantheon were at least shown to exist in the original trilogy went a long way to make it feel like we were actually in the Greek Mythos. And, the only gods fought in these games are the boring sons of Thor fight, Baldur, Odin, Heimdall, and Thor. That's very comparable to the number of fights you're listing for the older games. Barely seeing any of the Vanir/Aesir is simply a huge missed opportunity, whether or not they were going to be actual boss fights, if only to bring to setting the setting to life in a more complete way.
As for Atreus, I'm not sure how much his existence was really necessary altogether, but I can say with certainty that he did not HAVE to be Loki for him to be a fully developed character. It would definitely have been possible to write the son of Kratos as a complete character without making him Loki, and that would have been preferable, so we could have more interesting characters in the antagonist corner. Loki could have been something of a wild card that was a pain for Kratos, the Vanir, and the Aesir, much like would be expected based on how he is characterized in myth. They could have even still made the plot that both Kratos and the Aesir are hoping to avoid Ragnarok, but the actual god Loki, not Atreus, is hell bent on making it happen.
I’ll finish this video later, but after finishing the Ironwood section (and even just the Atreus sections in general), I will never complain about playing as Miles or Mary Jane in Spider-Man again. At least those got to the point quickly.
I really hate how those Atreus sections drag on and on. Most boring parts of the game to me.
Notice not a single one of these fanboys can explain why this game is good, or counter any of the arguments made against it.
Their only argument is “BUT IT MADE LOTS OF MONEY!”
it makes so much sense that this was at first intended to be a trillogy (the norse trillogy we could have called it)
if they had split the first half into "GOW: Fimbulvetur" and focused on Thor as the rival to Kratos , with Atreus & Kratos spliting,
THEN would have made "GOW: Ragnarök" propper with Atreus & Odin being the main conflict , then father & son reconcile!
i enjoyed it in the end but it feels so compressed . Great feature length critique man, Kudos
Imagine how disappointing a game called God of War Fimbulwinter would be
The reception of this game just truly shocks me. The entire planet claims that it's a timeless masterpiece, a flawless sequel, the 2022 GOTY, the best Sony game and so on, yet everywhere I look, the player base agrees on lots of issues. We hated the Ironwood chapter, the minibosses were overused, recycled and disappointing, the pacing is off, and these are just the top examples. So if that many of us found these problems serious, why are people still having this 10/10 discussion online? I just don't get it. It's a solid game but people are so blinded by hype it physically hurts sometimes.
I feel like the presentation and performances are a huge reason why. All of those things are on par with the 2018 game, and it makes people believe that the narrative quality is on par with that game too.
That makes a lot of sense actually. It's also important to note that Sony heavily relies on an entirely new player base since the eclipse of the PS4 era, with all the remakes/remasters and soft reboots. Therefore, lots of people who are entirely new to videogames will be presented with these titles as introduction to the medium, and they might rate it way higher than experienced players who saw some aspects executed better in other titles. (No shade on new gamers tho)
@@kopottrobot It's fresh in people's mind. Overall the game is executed well, with very few issues mechanically with some high points. But give it a year or more and people will leave their honeymoon phase and look more indepth.
@@yellowcard8100My Original rating for Ragnarok was 8/10 it's a good game but not a masterpiece as 2018 was but with valhalla dlc I think it becomes a solid 9/10.
@@AaronBiswasYeah, my rating is around a 9-9.5/10. Aside from the other characters spoiling the puzzles, Kratos not going after Atreus after he barged through the door to run away which is probably my only issue with the writing, some questions remaining unanswered like the mask, the pacing towards the end being a bit rushed, and the Berserker fights not being as enjoyable as the Valkyrie fights in the 2018, it’s still pretty great, just a kinda flawed masterpiece. It’s not as good as Red Dead 2 or Nier Automata, but I love it.
What I absolutely didn‘t like about this game is the dialogue and this unnecessary MCU humor
it's chekov's armory wall but he's excomunicadoed
these "critique" youtubers are getting out of hand.. litterally taking small issues with any game and blow it out of propotion... and im talking all games not just ragnarok. hungry for views and will stretch the fuck out of it. Elden Ring loved by almost everybody, some youtuber : "Elden Ring is a flawed missed opportunity" Red Dead 2 Loved by almost everybody scores high on anyone's list. some youtuber "ultimately RDR2 is not a good game" and this is not defending devs or publishers its just a tired formula at this point. do better.
Yeah for sure, like new saints row was a disaster this game was like a 8.5 at the lowest
And I've put 2000 hours in rdr2 haha got 100% in it too did the hunting quests and picking flowers
This guy is a professional nitpicker dud literally hating an easter egg about PlayStation all-stars
I played GoW 2018 first then Ragnarok when it came out last year. In February of this year I went back to the classic trilogy and instantly fell in love with them, the music, the gameplay, the energy and the low key story are all amazing, honestly they blew the new stuff out of the water imo and I played the new stuff first. So no “nostalgia” or “bias”. I’m surprised the new games are as highly rated as they are, there good don’t get me wrong, but not Game of the Year or 10/10 Timeless masterpiece good.
agreed 100%. I mean I understand if people love the new GoW games. They're good games tbh, especially 2018. What I don't get are the 10/10 reviews from every mainstream review website and GoTY awards. That's a massive exaggeration.
Been a fan since the original and I enjoy the new game far more overall despite the number of unnecessary modern gaming trends they decided to add. Overall the combat and the storytelling is better even if things don't get quite so crazy in terms of scale and the music is just as good. It just feels like the series grew up with it's audience.
@@VicViper1984 disagreed tbh, the old has far better more complex combat, better camera to compliment the combat, and far better art setpieces and scenery.
@@flamingmanure that's rich. I understand having a personal preference, but what you're stating about the gameplay is just objectively false. The core combat of the original trilogy was not more complex than the new titles. Hell the blades of chaos behave almost identically between the two styles of gameplay with the only major difference being that in the og games moves like rampage of the furies were so spamable that it removed any real skill requirements, blocking, parries and dodges were far clunkier and less functional, and quick time events were a much larger focus because at the time they were not a largely unwelcome mechanic.
The new games took the core gameplay of the og games, improved the basic functionality of a lot of the mechanics, streamlined ranged and melee combat so well that they can be alternated between freely and effectively and created weapon functions to perfectly complement that system, added effective quick swap features so that swapping weapons to switch up combos was possible and easy to accomplish and more. There is absolutely nothing about the OG games that was functionally more deep or complex regarding the combat, and the only thing the OG games had that the new ones don't, is a dedicated jump button.
Prefer the stylistic differences in the original games all you want, just don't act like there is some objective quality to the originals that the new games lack, because that's just downright delusional.
@@frogglen6350 God of War 2018 and Ragnarok woudnt even be a thing if the original trilogy is not great
what are you smoking?
For as much as I did still enjoy the game the first time around, I did finish with a feeling that something was off and it's good to see you put it into perspective. Hell Gow has been my favorite series since childhood and I bought a ps5 just for this, but at the end there was a feeling of what could've been. For something as catalytic as ragnarok, maybe I was expecting more, something like Gow 3. Not necessarily that violent Kratos and tone, but still. It's a long game yet it really does feel off, rushed, despite the polished mechanics (other than the ui downgrade). For as much was setup in 2018 and this norse world, it didn't feel like we got to experience all of it, and now the saga is over? It's hard to see where they're going next but hopefully they don't commit this same mistake again.
My Gripe is how Asgard looks, Odins "Palace" is a freaking Cabin it was literally a summer camp lmao like we went from Olympus to a Summer camp? cmon Santa Monica you can do better than that.... Its not like im expecting a super fancy Palace but man this was just lazy and no effort.
Personally I liked the game. I think it mainly comes down to different interpretations of the game itself and it themes. Like Kratos telling Freya about his past was to me just him finally finding closure between the ending of 2018 and the start of Ragnarok and being open with other people. Like Freya saved Atrues so he trusts her implicitly. To me it makes sense.
It also perfectly allows Kratos to convince Freya that killing him will bring her no peace just like him in Olympus, allowing her to forgive him without it coming off as unrealistic or rushed.
@@chase1630 For real, I found LazerzZ take on that to be insanely baffling. On one hand, he thinks making Freya too stupid to understand the implications of those actions/messages that Kratos told/showed her and "subverting our expectations" and still attacking us is better than her being smart enough to actually listen to him and put aside her hatred to focus on their common goal, Odin. Then, he immediately praises the writing in her side quest when she understands that the pain would never go away by destroying the artifacts. I'm sorry, WHAT?!? Like how do you go from that line of thought to the other and not see the issues/contradictions with that leap?
I liked the idea of kratos opening more, that concept is good for this sequel, but it was executed poorly. I agree with the others that it felt out of character and I believe it should have been in a well crafted cutscene and not in a walking transition.
Game is trash
@@sands201 at least you have something in common with the game then
I personally wouldn't call it a disaster but I 100% agree that this game was no where near as good as it should have been IMO. Even now nearly 5 months later I'm still trying to understand why i don't love this game like I expected myself to like GOW 2018
This video was so refreshing. I was so disappointed with this game, but even more disappointed when everybody else was praising it as a flawless masterpiece on par with the 2018 game. 2018 was so good, and Ragnarok left a lot to be desired. Thank you for making this video. I feel validated.
Love to hear it, glad I could speak toward how you felt 🙏🏻
@@LazerzZand the part about the characters becoming completely Marvel-ized, turning into quippy characters out of the MCU, I was so happy you brought that up. It was such a let down for me and I couldn’t get anybody else that played the game to recognize that as much as I did. It was like that feeling of “I must scream but I have no mouth.”
I love the game but your points were spot on. Especially on the Aesir gods and how the 2018 Aesir wouldn't fit in. As soon as I saw Odin I said "Hmm....Really?" Then he and all of the other Aesir spoke. Most annoying of them all being Thrud. Why do they talk like that?! Does Odin run a small struggling personal injury law office on the side? Is Thrud having popularity issues at The All Father of Asgard High School?! "Uhh, Midgard boys are so weird." Really? That's level of effort you put into writing the Aesir dialogue and banter?
Odin is perfectly set up in the last game and so is thor
@@chapman2001 Yes, and then they didn't follow through.
@@chapman2001 laughably disagree, odin is written like a american mafioso hack and talks like one too, his accent and demeanor is laughable and thor is just a dumb thug with daddy issues.
@@BWMagus yes they did lol they went above and beyond
@@chapman2001 lmao, you cant be serious. they dont live up to the hype at all, their relation makes little sense and their actions lack any direction or logic.
1:32:15 This part is explained in multiple side quests. Freyr once teleported into alfiem into their magic water or whatever and everyone thought he was the chosen one among for the elves. Thats why both sides of elves love freyr. But yeah reducing something as important and as big a plot point as uniting two warring factions to a few lines of dialogue is really dumb.
Is it really a big plot point? It really serves no purpose other than a neat trivia of Freyr was liked among elves. The game has a lot of tidbits of lore sprung inbetween quests and sidequests. To me that only makes the world richer.
@@TheSilverwolf97yes it is bcuz freyr then goes back to alfhiem and unites and recruits the elves for ragnarok
It doesn't matter how a plot point is conveyed, as long it's conveyed.
@@gurhhjde2937 But you know that could've happend off-screen right? Not everything needs a 10-hour story.
For example in the crater area you learn about the fight between Faye and Thor which is why Thor, in the beginning of the game said "this looks familiar".
For me personally I think the only portion of the game that felt rushed was the actual ragnarok battle. For what's hyped as a sort of apocalypse it could've been more (maybe).
I think the side quests in GoW Ragnarok have much more story built into them than the first game.
@@cynicalmemester1694Yes, I hate when people say that you cannot get 100% of the story/details without playing 100% of the game. Glad someone noticed.
Halfway through this and you already convinced me. I loved God of War 2018, but Ragnorak just felt off.....and I couldn't figure it out till now. The game was just all over the place and the ending wasn't satisfying. I was hoping for a possible redemption for Thor, Odin and was curious about that rift Odin was trying to open. I loved Thor and Odin....bummer that they were killed off.
This is one of the games where you have all the hype playing it for the first time but once you beat it the first time, the second run doesn't really have it anymore, that's exactly what happen to me in the first one too, I beat that game once and no matter how much I try to play it again for the new game plus, it's just wasn't there anymore, my heart feels empty playing it the second time, like I said this game is a beat it once kind of game..
Omg same, I tried replaying it and fully saw all its faults. Doesn't feel like a God of war game at all. I gave up at the atreus and agaboda sections. So boring, these aren't games, they're cringe movies smh
I feel like it relied on fan service and elements of surprise a lot. When you play it again it's completely gone. Whereas GOW 2018 never did this, or barely, which is why it still has replayability.
Not only this, but Ragnarok felt like a grind, why would I feel the need to go and explore all the realms again, find every chest and loot, and do every side quest? It's not rewarding at all
Atreus sections ruined the replayability. And the third act sucked.
the title is hyperbolic but he does makes some really good points in the video. i too walked away from Ragnarok feeling a bit cheated and so it's nice to see someone express in words the issues i had with the game and introduce me to things i missed that they don't like about the game
I honestly feel like both aspects are true. The game is a masterpiece and also a mess. I felt many of the things he talks about (especially during my second playthrough), but it's still such a great game that it likely lands at a 9/10 for me. It's very similar to Uncharted 4 in that sense.
@@alex_srsc No it's not a masterpiece. Nothing about it is and I can't stand that you people use that word so lightly with clearly not understanding what it means. Gow 2, 3, and 2018 were masterpieces this couldn't be further from it.
@@Kometheus subjective. Not everybody plays for the story only
@@Kometheus Gow 1 ??
@@Kometheus false. Gow 2, 3, 2018 aren't masterpieces. It's all subjective.
Maybe Redfall is though. Hard to argue against it
I had a lotnof fun with GoW ragnarok and it's free DLC. I respect the effort you put into the video and into your arguments. But I do still disagree. I still loved your video, well done dude.
The thing that baffles me the most with this game is that its gets praised for Asgardians not looking like the "typical modernised" MCU Marver characters.
But they talk, act and characterised as such. lol
The gameplay is amazing the game is the most fun game ever but the story felt disappointing thor being a drunken depressed fool who was abused by odin goes against everything mimir said about him in the previous game odin in the kratos scenes was cool and menacing but overall I feel his boss fight was one of the biggest disappointments in gaming. The Atreus missions also brought this game from a 9.5 to an 8.5 such a letdown compared to 2018 imo
Agree and somehow ppl say Thor was one of the best characters in this game lol, some clowns will defend this game no matter what
@@simpleclout5546 pretty much almost every somewhat divisive game have defenders, so I ain't surprised
Would have been a better ending if kartos said, "Its God Of War time" then that ine song form transformers plays and it fades ti credits
real
The true ending
When the release date of the game was announced i counted the days to finally being able to play it. While playing i enjoyed everything about it. Often i spend minutes just standing on specific locations and enjoying the beauty of the surroundings. (For example the view right after climbing the wall with atreus). That was something i did not do with 2018. The fighting system and the possibilities to change your settings and controls got improved. I got myself the platinum trophy. I totally get the point in the video that the story might feel rushed, but for me that was not that much of an issue. The whole ragnarok event in the game actually felt a bit anticlimatic for me. Like "that's it"?
But other than that i thoroughly enjoyed it and i absolutely can't wait for ng+ to finally launch so i can play it again and try gmgow difficulty for the first time.
Yesss, someone finally thinks this game is not good
Holy shit, based department?
I'm just gonna say it... This games direction was amateurish. The director of this game never directed a game before and it shows. It's all over the place and it was trying way to hard to be a movie instead of a game. It felt like going from place to place just to load the next cutscene. No interesting gameplay mechanics, no cool fight sequence that require more thought than simply pressing the hit and dodge buttons and the "puzzles" were an insult to our intelligence. But yeah the worst part was definitely the writing. All the gods acting like 2020's americans and of the 3 gods that are killed in this game Kratos kills only one and it is in a cutscene. Extremely disapointing.
I enjoyed 2018 way more. I couldn’t even bring myself to finish Ragnarok.
Edit: I think it comes down to that I had a clear goal in 2018. I didn’t feel any purpose in Ragnarok. It just felt like I was jumping around between realms for the hell of it.
@@frogglen6350 Go cope somewhere else. You already posted 14 other comments on this vid. I can’t believe this is how people spend their time.
@@frogglen6350 like bro really can’t take an opinion.
@@wyattcheramie004 fr lol
@@wyattcheramie004 the lack of direction was never a problem for me. If anything that’s what I like about ragnarok’s story. It’s about 2 people trying to protect the ones they love while looking for their place in a world dictated by prophecy and fate.
@@wyattcheramie004criticizes you, and you tell him to cope. Great argument. Really mature.
The only thing I really couldn’t stand about this game was the war. All game long we hear kratos refusing to take his son to war and by the time it happens it’s like a 15 min segment with scripted events. Imagine if when Thor vs the snake (not even gonna attempt to spell his name) came crashing down and opening up diffrent paths for you traverse to Odin. It felt so rushed when they had an endless possibly with it but they went the most boring and safest route imo. They could have made it so much better,forced us to witness the death around us have kratos take charge and push the front line while we move over to Loki and have him do something complete different on a diffrent part of the battle then they come together towards a second or third stage of the Odin fight showing kratos that his son truly is strong enough to go on his own. I really liked this game I played it 5-6 times but everytime I get to what was lead of the whole story it was a huge letdown.
Everything about the Ragnarok war was rushed. The event "Ragnarok" needed to happen throughout a whole game, so you could really feel it's significance in the grand scheme of things. Not only the last 30 min of a 26 hours long game.
This game was terrible in my eyes because you can tell it was rushed and to many characters didn't get time to shine nor was this game any close to fulfilling the prophecy of 2018 GOW with Kratos dying. Thor usage was an absolute joke. After waiting 4yrs he was a walking simulator looking for a mask instead of being the threat that he is in Norse mythology. Helheim was a complete joke as well. Hraesvelgr as the leader of hell WTF!. 🤯Don't even get me started on the Norns. As a mythology buff and a huge fan of the GOW franchise in general this the worse GOW story ever in my opinion. It's like they really didn't care anymore and ran out of idea's. 👀 This video explained everything that I feel about this game and it pisses me off on how many people don't even care about the game they just don't want you talking about Sony's precious studio's. It's pathetic in my opinion. Thank you for this video and continue to speak up on this you do and don't like. All those people that have a problem with it can go F*** off.
I've never played this game but i'm gonna call you stupid and a fool for not loving it because another youtuber said they liked it
AAA gaming industry feels more and more like the music industry: people think more about the lyrics than they actually care about the music itself. In the same way, the "storyh" in modern games is more important than the game design and the gameplay itself. Finally, someone is starting to address how wrong this feels, especially if we have to WATCH the game for the first 5 hours before actually starting to play it
I would argue most, if not all games on this channel are bad or mediocre at best. Even FF7 remake is shit compared to original. But just like with music, turns out people like eating shit if its nicely packed, that's that.
Of course, gaming because mainstream so a lot of people who used to hate games and made fun of gamers got consoles, they still hate gaming but they want to be part of the trend so what they can get out of a game? Story and dialogue. Now, the story and dialogue cannot be more than what they are used to in Marvel, Fast and Furious, Transformers movies so anything that resembles those things they will love it. Notice how all Sony games are the same or very similar? Because that makes the most money. Sony Marvelizing their games but I don’t think it’s good in the long run. However the fans will defend this til death.
No it's the opposite here though. Gameplay was fucking amazing but the story was shite
@@rsmith8113 so true
@@_.LZ._ The gameplay of Ragnarok was a massive downgrade from 2018 though.
Just play them back to back and it’s painfully obvious how much better the first one is on a direction level.
Late reply but I agree, I like to compare it to Star Wars in that Force Awakens (Gow 2018) was good and had a lot of potential for the future and then they released TLJ (Ragnarok) and threw all that setup out the window and didnt know what the fuck they really wanted. Its like a whole other studio took over or something.
So I have to say I very much disagree you on this game... but as someone who has LOTS of problems with plenty of beloved games from the past decade I REALLY get it. Stay safe out there. These waters are treacherous.
What do you disagree with
@@TheMilkMan905 most of how he feels about the narrative. In the video he describes how the plot is an overly condensed mess, whereas to me it was just fine. Excellent even. I liked the pacing, it felt stressful and emotionally complex in the way any story about facing the apocalypse should.
I liked the character development and the writing, as well as the plot progression and the use of themes in the game. Lots of stuff he wasn't too keen on.
There's probably also quite a few small things I could nitpick and defend, but that would require rewatching the whole video.
Let's just say that I totally loved this game, WAY more than the previous one, and that in spite of my differing opinion I respect everything Lazerzz has to say about it. He was super articulate and well argued the whole way through.
This video perfectly encapsulates some of my problems with this game. Your remark of the first 2 hours being really good was the biggest relief for me to see someone else having had the same experience. It felt like THE sequel we’ve been waiting for but all of that has to slowly take a backseat for more world building and introduction of extra characters because 2 games had to be squished into one. Great video.
They didn’t have to be squished into one tho? They wrapped everything up in this game 😂😂😂
Honestly love Ragnarok to death with its lessons and story, but also love your content, very interesting to say the least
And now you're on to claiming the game style is only because of the previous game.
Why should they change the entire type and genre of the game? It makes far more sense to keep the general game mechanics the same. They added onto what they established in 2018.
No one would expect the game to be completely different, in fact everyone would be completely up in arms about the sudden drastic change for no discernible reason.
I'm 80% through your video and honestly your attempt at pre-criticising your critics seems to apply, except it applies to you, not your critics or would-be critics.
Normally I would say this video has been a swing and a miss, but it's more so you willfully blind-folding yourself and trying to hit a pinata with a stick. You've just about hit everything, except for the bloody pinata.
As someone who deeply values and appreciates good well structured criticism (especially long form that gets in to the nitty gritty), this has been a giant letdown. It doesn't instill me with a sense of wanting to hear more of your criticisms. Quite the opposite in fact. You've soured me on your channel as much as you've seem to have soured on GoW: Ragnarok. But who knows, maybe in the future I'll give it another shot, after I've got this bad taste out of my mouth.
Started off defensively as if youd offend fans. But really your complaint is that there wasnt MORE god of war. This is something we can all agree on!
God I wish more people see this, Especially The Writing segment. You expressed the problems with the tone and narrative masterfully. Well done!
You want more people to watch this so they can change their opinion even though they enjoyed it? LOL
@@GlivGluvhe wants more people to see the video so they can hear a good and logical argument. There is objective value in being able to criticize art and understand why it is good or bad. You're not helping anyone by blowing Sony's c*ck no matter what they produce.
@@GlivGluvNo, it seems like he just wants people to watch it, to better understand the complaints about this game.
lol
This game is phenomenal and the work put in was remarkable on all fronts, this review is shit
The poor pacing and lack of logic with the characters in Ragnarok was an insult to 2018, the writers really couldnt be bothered anymore and just wrote a marvel conclusion.. even the thor fights were "meh" in comparison to the baldur fights
I can’t believe I watched the whole video. Didn’t think I was gonna make it through. And interestingly I am watching this video right after I finished watching the 2018 video you made and that’s what made this video even more interesting cause I know how much you loved the first one. I hated this one too so much and was waiting to see what you thought of it I literally went to the channel looking for the video. 😂😂😂 and to my surprise you said just what I felt playing the game out loud. Thank you so much.
Love to hear it! So glad the video resonated with you, I’m glad you enjoyed it. This video was super cathartic to make after seeing pretty much nothing but praise all over the internet, I felt like I was going completely insane 😂
this game is so 50/50 for me 2018 is so much better
Who the fuck ever said that a protagonist should be proactive? You can, of course, have a reactive protagonist and have it be great.
When I played it, something that actually made me get angry was the fact that it took around 15 hours before I found my first heavy runic attack for the axe. I explored everywhere I went pretty thoroughly and I was genuinely pissed off at how much less runic attacks there were in general and that they're nowhere near as good or fun to use as in 2018. I also didn't like the story missions that were pretty much just padding. You mention the searching for norns where you find the completely empty caves which is just a waste of time. They couldn't have even put an item in there? or anything? Another time I got a little annoyed was during the first Atreus mission where you find freya. After all that effort, as you walk back to the yggdrasil gateway, Atreus says something like "well I guess that was a waste of time" yeah no shit, so why was it in the game?!! Overall, I still enjoyed the game a lot, but it did have some problems and I do agree with most of your points.
I will say, I feel like there are some parts in here where the point is missed. Although you made some points, there are some areas of depth that are lacking.
1. Atreus is a child. It makes perfect sense for him to have gone to Asgard to see Odin because he thought he had all the answers. His character is one that tends to get ahead of himself (also shown when he released Garm) and this is another example of that. He was fixated on his goal to find out who he was supposed to be, this was a part of that.
2. Prophecy works in juxtaposition with 2018. Where in that game they went on their journey only to find out it was prophesied at the end, here they know what the end entails and have to decide how far they want to go down this path. This hold weight, as there are several pieces of dialogue around inevitability, and is used in a nice way to tie back to Greek mythology about people trying to subvert their destiny only for it to come true anyway.
3. You implied a couple times that Kratos does not feel that close to Mimir. That is simply not true, as in the journal he writes that he has not considered many people a brother but he does Mimir.
4. It makes sense for kratos to open up to Freya. He never saw her as an enemy which is why he never tried to kill her. You mentioned that he only saved her from Baldur so his son would not see it but what’s not entirely true. She saved his son’s life, he did not want her killed.
5. Freyr has a light and dark elf, a traveller, and a dwarf in his camp. “They United because they really like me” works because it’s implied he has that gift. This is told not only through this, but also through what Freya says of the leader he could have been had he chosen to.
6. Kratos absolutely wants to help people. He writes favorably about people in journals when he can and there are a few missions where characters to do expect him to take up the task but he does because he feels it’s important (particularly when helping the spirit father find his son).
7. The All-Stars tournament reference is an Easter egg. It’s just… an Easter egg
8. About the combat.. yes he is brutally killing things. You included a clip in this very video where Athena says “you will always be a monster” and he says “I know but I will be your mister no longer.” It’s also incredibly apparent that Kratos will do whatever it takes to get the job done/protect who he loves.
There are so points I agree with in this video, like how it needed to be 3 games to tell a full story and how some parts were left unanswered. I almost do agree with the tedium of the crater as I found myself running around aimlessly (although I find it interesting that you didn’t mention the hidden parts only accessible by boat, since you liked that in 2018). I think it’s obvious from my essay that I liked this game lol, but I also analyzed it and these are just some of the things I found differently
Summed up most of my thoughts throughout the video. It’s not like I don’t agree with him just some things need to be reappraised in context
I honestly agree with a very strong majority of these points. Atreus is supposed to be like that because he’s not mature. He only becomes that way when the game ends.
@@CrestORazors He is a teen not a retard
So the reason the norse got cut short is because cory is lazy/bored with the IP and didn't want to continue for three games. Good god... get a different proffession lol
@@Megasuperq Nothing. The part thats wrong is he set this up, hyped us up and then crammed everything into one game and basically rushed the ending.
He should've stepped aside and let someone else take over the Idea while he took up another project in the company; I pray they let this franchise rest. I dont want him helming shit and I sure as hell could care less about his future endeevors.
You dont start something you dont "Want" or "intend" to finish or finish properly. Regardless of circumstances.
I enjoyed the video cause I felt the disjointed parts of the game while playing but I enjoy the game aswell, I enjoy watching Kratos develop into a better person
Why would you compare his bond to Brock and syndry to his bond with his son and his wife. Honestly in this video it seems to me like you're upset that they just didn't make three games and you're pulling out whatever you can to slander this game. I like your content but this video is a reach and just not good
Ragnarok ruined Mimir. He’s extremely annoying in this game, when in GoW2018 he was the most likable character!
My God! I wished MIMIR would STFU for one second! Brother this, BROTHER THAT! Won't let me solve a puzzle, won't let me observe the game in peace. Won't even let me watch a cutscene without his input! I can't turn the banter off in the options, because these characters won't STFU!
Yep in 2018 he actually provided some interesting lore and some funny banter, now he just spouts off anything and everything every 5 seconds.
What are yall talking about??? This is the SAME EXACT Mimir from the previous game, except you have him at the start of the game.
I feel the problem with mimir is the reason why every character talks too much. If they cut on that fat and left him being the travel companion he is it would feel better but I didn’t hate him. The game keeps it too saturated with dialogue with other characters to make me hate the one with the best dialogue
I liked the game idk. I didn’t push off side missions though so I got a full story that didn’t feel super rushed.
God i feel vindicated by this video, i thought 2018 was the second best game of all tome after rdr2, while i thought ragnoroks gameplay was a huge improvement, every other part was a downgrade
@@frogglen6350 true that they added more boss fights but i dont think that makes the game better, the valkyries were enough for me i just wanted one bigger boss in heilheim that wouldve been similiar to one of the older games. Ragnorok rushed everything story related for side content and i think everything is worse for jt, tho obviously it has some great side boss fights, the hidden ones are also a cool improvement. Not one story boss imo holds up to the initial baldur fight kr magni and modi
''It's getting harder to critique each year because people make franchises their entire personality'' Holy shit man, you just summarized my entire thoughts on the entire problem with gaming. People make it ''theirs''. And this allows companies to get away with pumping out literal trash because they acquire these cult followings that will defend it to the death. And no franchise encapsulates this better than GOW, and Kratos fanboys in general. You literally cannot criticize a single thing about ''their'' product.
Cuz nobody who makes a critique is doing it properly. Lazarzz is one of the few who actually does it right. Also if you just search up you can find tons of videos about how ppl didn't like the game & having ppl commenting about how they agree with that.
A great game needs critique. No game is perfect. I love Ragnarok, but we can always strive to be better. Critique is a step in that direction.
I hope he tears it down, so the next game in the series can have some discussion for the developers to look at and see how they can improve.
I came into this game really wanting to enjoy it but it just frustrated me. From the shit wasted gameplay to the disappointing story.