I grew up in a Pakistani Muslim household, mostly in the US, and was absolutely shocked how mainstream this is in parts of the US. There is so much here about control of women that I never experienced and that maybe others would assume based off my background. It is amazing how similar it seems to the taliban. I’m sure these groups would never want to be associated with the taliban but honestly, it really does seem like it. What struck me was the baby making factory comment and the assault on her wedding night. Just absolutely shocking and horrific. I am proud of this woman for getting out and finding her voice. I cannot imagine how brave and strong willed she must be to have survived and escaped.
@rohinaiqbal7109 I'm guessing here, but something tells me these folks will swear up and down that they are the best kind of Americans, because of their faith. And that the Taliban is simply anti-American because of THEIR faith.
Yes. There's enormous denial about institutionalized male violence and control in the USA and a lot of finger pointing at the other Abrahamic Religions like they're somehow worse. Fundamentalism is the same everywhere.
I’m a Christian and I approve this message. I think ALL organizations should be taxed. Look at Kaiser Permanente HMO hospital systems: it’s a 501(c)(3) and their CEO MAKES OVER $5 million/year!
Thanks for this. As a European I'm truly shocked and disgusted about the size/power this movement has in the US. In some parts it really reminds me of the Nazis or the Taliban and their Sharia law. Sure, groups like this exist in Europe as well...but here they actually are fringe. I'm so sorry for all the people growing up in fundamentalism and hope many find a way out before it ends badly for them.
The US allows for a lot of insulation even if things are in plain sight or in public as you have observed. The superstructure that allows for the hyperindividualism here enables, what you consider, fringe groups to sustain themselves. The Mormons, jehova witnesses, 9 tribes, qanon, the Turpin family, etc. People can live unnoticed and isolated in both their own property with everything they need or even out in public where cities are too big but not necessarily populated.
About the wedding night, who can tell a young girl that it is gonna hurt but it will be romantic? Romantic doesn't hurt, pain is NOT romantic, neither is rape! That woman is so brave, I feel sorry for her but I commend her for her courage!
Tia, You are changing the entire world by living out loud as powerfully as possible. Thank You thank You thank You!!!! Plz know your suffering is not in vain and your skills and abilities are serving to help inspire others and heal. I am so proud of You for escaping and rescuing your children. 💪🏼❤️🦋
I grew up in the Catholic Church and my parents were ver traditional. My mum stayed home and was a wonderful caring mum, my Dad worked and was a distant selfish father who also had a heavy hand. I saw from an early age how girls and bouts were treated differently. How my mum was treated differently. I couldn’t put language to it but I felt like I had to scream and play up to show people I was more then a girl. That I was a person. As an adult I left religion. I never married. Had 2 kids out of wedlock. Support myself and only answer to myself. My life has been much happier by not being married and choosing to stay single.
Sounds like you weren’t having children by men you were even interested in. Very toxic. Feel free to reject tradition but leave children out of your ego trip.
Most religions I think keep women in the subordinate position. My grandmothers were not allowed to use birth control, they had umpteen kids each and could not afford them, lived in poverty. The Catholic church is responsible and of course there is misogyny, women have no authority in the church, yet they are the majority of its supporters. You are born into it, so very difficult to leave, the controlling introjects take root in your subconscious.
I bought Tia Leving's book today on Amazon. The Well-Trained Wife. I thought this interview was really good and it made me want to read her experience. We are seeing so much abuse of females in today's USA that I have become alarmed. I had expected to see legislation to repeal women's right to vote, but Tia explained that. The trend of not allowing women health care has just stunned me.
I think they were talking about the tearing of the hymen, which is painful for many, but by no means all women when it happens. Remember that most young women in that cult experience s3x for the first time in their wedding night, so most of them will probably have an intact hymen (although that's not a given, even with virgins, which is another reason why premarital "virginity examinations" are very problematic). They probably wouldn't mention SA in all its forms in the orientation, since they want them to look forward to their wedding.
I was raised Christian and this was never a goal for people's children. My own father, who would be over 100 years old now if he was still alive, told me to always have skills to be able to support yourself. He said you can marry the best man in the world but people get sick, people die. Always be able to support yourself. My mother encouraged education. It always made her sad that she had to quit high school to help support her family. Don't ever allow a church to run your family! Our minister was there if people requested counseling, but they never pushed themselves on families. And spouses who were abused weren't told to stay with their abuser.
@MS-sr6mj It actually was the norm where I lived. I knew a couple girls in school who went to some sort of Pentacostal church who were made to wear long dresses and hair, couldn't go to parties, etc. I didn't realize until I was older that they were probably raised in a very fundamentalist way. My friends were mostly Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic and Baptist. We all lived typical teenage lives. We wore "regular" clothes, makeup, were allowed to do things like go to dances and movies. We were encouraged to get a good education. Maybe certain areas of the country are more fundamentalist, I don't know.
@@MS-sr6mjIt’s not as rare as you think. I’ve been a churchgoer for 80 years, and that’s always been my experience in at least four different congregations I attended as I moved. In all,from my youngest memories, women and children had a voice. Mind you, I’m in Canada, where we do have fundamentalists, too, but not like the U.S.
I grew up evangelical and later converted to Islam. The parallels between a Trad wife and a Muslim woman's lifestyle are very similar. Different sides of the same coin.
@@aisnow5788 For the most part ALL religions have truth...in gradients...I found Eastern Orthodox truths about life, spirituality in terms of illuminating the dark places of my soul and sense of well being and spirituality. I needed a lot of healing and I found that in the Orthodox Church. The church is likened to a hospital and our sins (not judged moralistically) but as a place where we need healing and insight. For that reason, I chose Orthodoxy. To heal from my life.
Her daughter gave her a gift even though her life was so very short. Because of that precious life this woman was able to begin the process of escaping. Somehow looking at it that way is as beautiful as it is tragic. I am a mom, I have never suffered such a loss as that. Without that loss she would not have escaped and her children would have been subsumed by the cult.
What a strong woman. To overcome the lifestyle (religion, violence, patriarchy) that you grew up with is so hard. And religious lifestyle has this extra "fear of god" factor which makes it even harder.
I was raised in the Mormon church, and while some of these methods are foreign to me, the BITE model absolutely applies to Mormonism and Evangelical Christians.
I grew up as a Mormon as well but never believed the spiritual doctrine. Essentially I was agnostic as a child. It was crazy back in the 90s when no one I knew left the church, but I did at 18. A black sheep. I thought I left everything behind but I ended up marrying an abusive non-Mormon man. After deconstructing my entire life, I realized that the patriarchy I grew up in (family and sole community) definitely had a hold of me despite no longer being Mormon. It was ingrained in me that my husband must be smarter than me, be the one i should spend all my energy, time, and love on, basically that they get to choose their life but I’m just a support. My own needs and desires had been suppressed since a toddler essentially, so I carried that forward until my 40s unconsciously. Definitely cult-like.
Yes! Maintain a spiritual relationship with God and abandon man's patriarchal religions (all of them) that serve only men. Every religion on earth has a litany of rules for women, yet very few, if any, for men.
You may have lost "everything"...but GAINED your freedom. I get it; I'm a DV survivor who raised my son as a solo single mother across the country from both my abusive ex & highly dysfunctional family. We lived in poverty, but we were free
I’m so happy that you got out alive. I pray (because these folks have distorted God’s word) you are made whole and emerge as a role model for people around you.
They've been slowly accruing that power. They've never lost an iota of it. They've been quietly putting themselves in positions so that when the time comes they can disband the federal government. The only thing that can stop them is that they didn't breed fast enough. There's not enough of them to convincingly steal elections. That is why they are so desperate. They know they're on the precipice of losing everything. Their only hope is to win in November. The stakes have never been higher. If they lose they've lost for good. They won't be able to make this a white Christian nation. They're dying off.
I don’t agree they have power to subject women to this bc this is a free society that is saturated with opportunity. You don’t even have to respect or listen to your parents/family once you reach the age of 18 so women and girls can navigate society quite comfortably so long as we take advantage of our rights and opportunities.
Oh my Lord! This lady is describing my father and my family of origin, plus when she talks about being trained to "people-please" I fully identified with her! This is a very valuable interview. It should ne shown in national TV..
I don’t understand how any intelligent woman would ever submit to this lifestyle, but I am very happy that the guest was able to break free of her chains.
I am a gay man. I dated a controlling very wealth architect in the 1990's. Oh, the promises made, a new Audi, a home on the beach...all I had to do was OBEY. Yeah, no! Girls, trust me. The cost of being a "TRAD WIFE" is way too high! The perks are a gilded cage.
34:19 Ateood's book on abuse is mostly based on the abuse black women suffered in the US during slavery. Christian fundamentalism was also a source as well as the speaker shared. I just wanted to include that background so that people have a full context for her research.
Evangelicalism really messed me up. Similar issues to this gal. After leaving the church I was lost for many years since I didn't know how to function in a secular society.
I was raised in an Evangelical church as well. I had heard of Bill Gothard but my family didn't really practice that philosophy. 3 girls in my family. My dad and mom both have Masters degrees and wanted us to be educated even if we did end up being stay at home moms. Myself and my sisters all graduated college and remained in Christianity but only agree with submission in the sense that as Christians we are to submit to one another and our husbands, only when those people are making a request that is unselfish and within God's will. Submission is always our choice is what we were taught.
I feel for all these women that are put through these horrible things. This is one of them thousands of reasons I despise religion. This needs to be illegal.
WOW! I just realize why my in laws treated me the way they did. My husband is Southern Baptist and I was Catholic. My in laws tried to teach me to submit, not to my husband so much but to them. We had to go to their house to do yard work, house work, pressuring us to go to their church 3 times a week. Including handing over our paychecks to them. Wanting to take over our finances and put us on a budget. I didn't need friends, new clothes, a trip to the beauty salon, or a car. Everything I needed was in the bible, including managing my diabetes. My mother in law would gleefully tell me that I would die soon, so why go to the doctor? It would be a waste. I had my daughter and Robbie ( mother in law ) was going to teach her to be a good Christian woman. Because she and her husband was counting on me to die soon. Yes, she told me that. That woke me up . Took me awhile but my husband and I cut that toxic family out of our lives, my husband is cordial but my children and I have not talked to them . When Robbie had cancer she wasted no time to see the doctor. I thought everthing that she needed was in the bible, including her cure for the cancer. Listening to you Tia, everything is falling into place and making sense now.
19:19 WOW 😳 So... children are "weapons" and are born with a specific role, purpose and a "job" to do? They're not even seen as their own individual people...
29:28 so basically anything can can ensure you are mental, emotionally, PHYSICALLY, and socially healthy. They literally want you to deter from visiting a doctor.
@LizStewart1442 I thought Mrs. Yates had an awful bout of post parturm depression. And her doctors TOLD the Mr. Yates that she was a danger to their children, but he didn't listen.
I'm a new subscriber, this was very deep and I'm glad I've subscribed. Great interviewer. Tia, you're a survivor, you're brave. As a man, I apologize and I feel so sorry that women have to live in a world where they're looked down and treated as less. We must do better. I'm so sorry.
Thank you for this interview. All of my love and support for Tia! Though I was not raised in such a strict religion, her story is never the less extremely relatable and blood-chilling. I am grateful for her courage to tell it!
It attracts abusive men. The religion is just what gets used for justification of the abusive and controlling system. The traits that draw men to these religious sects are universal selfish and insecure human traits
that is simultaneously interesting and horrifying. i'm well-past three score and ten. you begin to realize that much of what we think we know is really conditioning. and most of that conditioning is not even consciously done; it is almost automatic. the fish doesn't notice the water; the humans don't notice the air (till they start choking on it.) of course it's not much consolation that this ridiculous arrangement is misery for the males, too. i'm very glad you and your family escaped, and i'm happy that 'no filter' is calling attention to this destructive craziness.
This is why every woman should memorize the wife of a noble man in Proverbs 31. She’s large and in charge and doesn’t need her husband which allows her to just love her husband.
Unfortunately Proverbs 30 *edit: Proverbs 31:30* (when isolated) can be used to isolate and subjugate women, when a church interprets and teaches it's followers that a woman's access to god is through her father or husband.
@@SaltySerial wives and husbands are to submit to each other but people who twist scripture try to teach that a woman’s place is in the home taking care of her husband and children but not working in the home. Proverbs 31 clearly shows that she is to work from home and if you’ve ever known a farmer’s wife you see that she does exactly that. I cringe when people say that financial decisions should only be made by the husband. What if he doesn’t know how to manage money well? My parents were quite compatible with money even though they disagreed on the topic but she was a saver and he was an investor so they did well together financially even though they fought about it. My mom worked at home and didn’t work outside the home until the youngest was a teenager.
I was in this same sect until I was 6. I remember alllll of the things she talks about. It was so wild....girls as young as 4 and 5 were sexualized. Thank God my dad had the wisdom to get us out.
I have nothing against true Christianity or even being a traditional wife. Her situation is a domestic abuse issue with a bad man hiding behind religion to try to get away with it. Oppression in the home is not supposed to be the life of a Christian. Her husband dropped the ball, and even a network of people got carried away and went too far with power and control and even started making doctrines of men above God's word in scripture. People get proud focusing on works and less on God's grace. Behind every cult leader is pride, a thirst for power, greed, and usually hidden sexual sins. What she experienced is not what true Christianity is supposed to look like. There are many wolves among the flock.
Bless you. I am upset by listening here and the response is to lump all Christians in this category. Please people. Read the scriptures for yourselves. See what is behind this “wolf in sheep’s clothing” and what is going on with children and marriage outside the church-such devastation!By the way, I made a decision to get married because I wanted marriage. Do not do that. Marry someone you know very, very well, w/o sexual intimacy, which clouds your judgement. Also. Listen to people you trust. My ex was so different than what I thought he was. He found others and God gave me what my friends call a “Hallmark movie” relationship.
What frightens me is the preponderance of such backward thinking in 2024, and the fact that when certain issues come up, then these women are encouraged to vote! These cults have a frightening effect on politics.
Parenting in these groups is all based on intergenerational undercare. The literal developmental damage that goes on here hits the genes in epigenetics….shit that needs to be turned on doesn’t happen. Normal skills for being human get diverted because energy is focused on containing the chaos of unreliability in parenting. Little babies learn they are not safe, a functional need for healthy development of our species. In fact, moral capacity and emotional regulation doesn’t happen either. It turns into domination and survival. It is mind blowing the literal intergenerational hell these teachers and parents are creating. 😭😭
Maybe I'm naive, but here's my opinion. Before getting married, a couple has to talk about the important issues like: children (yes or no), work (is the woman willing to stay at home or not / and don't strangle me; it's often a money issue), money (spending on what / how much). When and only when they agree on all of these subjects, it's a good start into marriage. When they don't agree, they should part. Don't think you'll change your spouse a f t e r getting married.
Those things are already determined prior to marriage. Why do you think they’re trained from a young age to be quiet and control the females? Everyone follows the process and know their roles in preparation to recreate this structure.
I was never in a cult but I did experience abuse in my first marriage. My second marriage was a bit better, but my husband had a hard time keeping a job. I was never taught that I could do better by myself. I was always encouraged to find a husband. Fast forward 30 years later, I have been on my own and working. Now retired but still pick up work part time to supplement my retirement.
I saw an interview with Tia last night and now found Mia's interview. I'm fascinated as an Aussie, I have a brother (and his family ) in Canada, who seems to be in a religious cult. I wan't to understand him and how to relate to him, as we were brought up in a non religious family. I've just downloaded Tia's book - Well trained wife...from audible.
This is why I don't do mega churches! They seem anti religious to me. Once you invest your churches money in becoming MEGA... you have lost sight of the purpose. I want no part of it. I live less than 2 blocks from the biggest mega church in our country and probably 80 percent of my neighbors are members. Let me be the first to say this neighborhood is weird... the ppl are not kind of friendly we are a year later treated as outsiders.
Leaving Eden podcast. One of the co-hosts grew up in the IFB, independent fundamental baptist church. The podcast talks about her family leaving along with episodes on other cults.
I was listening and when she said her husband wasnt into sex, that to me is a big red flag, that he may be gay and fighting those feelings he took it out on her, she was the cause of his misery.... But he could just be a TWDC
More often men who hate physical contact, maybe including sex, and also have abusive tendencies were a victim of abuse themselves. Their history of course does not make their behaviour acceptable. People who are that angry that they are gay historically take out their frustrations on their own gender, not the opposite sex.
The horrors this woman experienced doesn't seem as much like a trad wife as it does an abusive religious cult, which is what the IBLP is. The trad wife label to me is just a modernized version of the 50's Suzy Homemaker and one which a the woman would have the freedom to made that choice. IBLP takes every bit of choice away from women; it is so, so destructive. So glad she was able to break free and go on to build a better life for herself and her children.
Trad wife lifestyle is inherently abusive because you are at the mercy of a man who can control the finances and control you as a result (including pressuring you into sex for money). Any woman "choosing" that sh t is as brainwashed as the cult ladies
Exactly. Tradwife is a lifestyle women CHOOSE based on an idealized version of the ‘50s housewife. This is FORCED on these girls through brainwashing. Huge difference.
@@jessiemedinaofficial Of course abuse happened, and probably quite a bit - it always has, unfortunately. Women were given the right to vote in 1920 and California gave women the right to open a bank account, regardless of marital status, in 1862. Other states soon followed. However, credit accounts were not possible until the 1970's.
Art is forbidden! Art is creativity, imagination, individuality & personal joy. Well education is forbidden too - literature, history, critical thinking. Then there is the homeschooling & isolation - prevents you from interconnecting with any possibility of encountering another point of view which would raise doubt and questions.
When you say "it's mainstream", does that mean that there are whole states of people living like this? How many people are in this cult or a similar one, what percentage of the population does it concern? Or does it mean that ideas of this cult have seeped into the culture and values of "more mainstream" churches? I'd like to know how many Americans live in an alternate universe's early 19th century. For how many people would project 2025 basically mean no change at all or a welcome validation of their lifestyle?
If you take a look at history and see what kind of ppl migrated to the US, you will understand. The first waves were that kind of ppl that we call extremists nowadays. Like Taliban and IS.
I had an aquaintance who was a huuuuge fan of the Duggar series and back then i had no idea what it truly was about. But no way she could have watched that and not know how fucked up it was. She called herself a feminist.
Very disappointed that I didn't find the link to part two. Correction, I did find the link but there was nothing to click on when I went there. Even subscribed but that didn't work either. I sent you an email about this but from the auto-reply I got, I'll never hear back from you. Such a disappointment as I really wanted to hear the rest of her story.🤔
Horrific, isn't it? Hillsong is enormous too. I heard that Australia has the third largest evangelical population in the world, after the US and Canada. Scary.
The fact that we need underground railroads for anything is absolutely ridiculous, I cried a few times already and I'm not even though the video. I can't stand what everything is coming to. It's so bad, and it's getting worse.
Totally, this sounds like “The Hand Maid’s Tale” or the last season of “Fargo”. The only big difference is that her story was not fiction but all REAL... happening in some weird random places within U.S. Outraging.
I live in Oregon. We actually are the least churched state and have few evangelical churches and especially none that you subscribe. It is hard for me to imagine and seems like a real nightmare. It's bad enough that they have their own world but it is not okay they want to push their agenda on the rest of us.
Nobody in Christianity is pushing their agenda on anyone, except for cults and extremist political groups like Christian Nationalism. Ordinary Christianity does say you must preach the Gospel to people. But in a democracy, anyone can express their point of view to others. This woman was in a cult. Bill Gothard and the other hard-core fundamentalist theologians who built on his work are running cults. IBLP is a cult. Even some of the Dugger kids are coming out and saying this.
I object your lumping “Traditional Wife” along with the word “ Cult”. There are Traditional Wives today who freely CHOOSE this role, as well-formed adults, NOT indoctrinated/threatened, and are v/happy and fulfilled in it. Theirs is not a cult, and it’s a disservice to paint all women in broad brush strokes, those exposed to/harmed by these adverse words/behaviors. I’m very sorry that this woman/any woman grows up with disordered notions, and now need to re-program themselves will be praying for them.
Don't forget to read 5:21, and 5:25-28. Men have to submit too. I recommend the Jubilee Bible. It flat out says in verse 21 that both need to submit to each other equally.
Please. She married the wrong man, foolishly, after only 4 weeks. I grew up the same as her and was in FL the same time she was. No one, and I mean NO ONE, would encourage that. She needs to put the blame where it is due. On her own foolishness, and in her parents for encouraging it. Our denomination (not ibpl, but similar) never would have pushed or condoned this behavior. They would have told her to wait at least a year.
@brandy4530 Corporate punishment is illegal in the United States. That includes violating a child's body by performing violent acts for the purpose of inflicting pain.
@@alexiswinter6948 coroporal punishment at home is legal in all US States and in school it's legal in 17 states. You can google that. That's why one christian cult left my country and moved to the US because they are allowed again to spank even babies and toddlers and keep their children out of school. Here their kids were brought to school by police and put in foster care as soon as they showed any signs or told of being spanked.
I grew up in a Pakistani Muslim household, mostly in the US, and was absolutely shocked how mainstream this is in parts of the US. There is so much here about control of women that I never experienced and that maybe others would assume based off my background. It is amazing how similar it seems to the taliban. I’m sure these groups would never want to be associated with the taliban but honestly, it really does seem like it. What struck me was the baby making factory comment and the assault on her wedding night. Just absolutely shocking and horrific.
I am proud of this woman for getting out and finding her voice. I cannot imagine how brave and strong willed she must be to have survived and escaped.
Beautifully stated. They will swear on their lives that they are the opposite of the Taliban when in fact the only difference is religion.
@rohinaiqbal7109 I'm guessing here, but something tells me these folks will swear up and down that they are the best kind of Americans, because of their faith. And that the Taliban is simply anti-American because of THEIR faith.
Yes. There's enormous denial about institutionalized male violence and control in the USA and a lot of finger pointing at the other Abrahamic Religions like they're somehow worse. Fundamentalism is the same everywhere.
😂
@@YOpeluk Why is that funny?
No religious organizations should be tax exempt and they definitely shouldn’t be allowed to influence politics
Religion shouldn't exist, full stop
THIS!👏
I’m a Christian and I approve this message. I think ALL organizations should be taxed.
Look at Kaiser Permanente HMO hospital systems: it’s a 501(c)(3) and their CEO MAKES OVER $5 million/year!
THISSS
@@KiKiQuiQuiKiKi How did that even happen?
Thanks for this. As a European I'm truly shocked and disgusted about the size/power this movement has in the US. In some parts it really reminds me of the Nazis or the Taliban and their Sharia law. Sure, groups like this exist in Europe as well...but here they actually are fringe. I'm so sorry for all the people growing up in fundamentalism and hope many find a way out before it ends badly for them.
The US allows for a lot of insulation even if things are in plain sight or in public as you have observed. The superstructure that allows for the hyperindividualism here enables, what you consider, fringe groups to sustain themselves. The Mormons, jehova witnesses, 9 tribes, qanon, the Turpin family, etc. People can live unnoticed and isolated in both their own property with everything they need or even out in public where cities are too big but not necessarily populated.
We have a dark joke here, we call these types of people "y'all qaeda"
Well done.@@brittlebricks10
Thank you I have thought this for years!
Sadly there are expressions of this in some of the "newer" churches funded by us organisations this side of the pond.
About the wedding night, who can tell a young girl that it is gonna hurt but it will be romantic? Romantic doesn't hurt, pain is NOT romantic, neither is rape! That woman is so brave, I feel sorry for her but I commend her for her courage!
Well sometimes pain is romantic but enthusiastic consent and being free to refuse is the important element
Tia, You are changing the entire world by living out loud as powerfully as possible. Thank You thank You thank You!!!! Plz know your suffering is not in vain and your skills and abilities are serving to help inspire others and heal. I am so proud of You for escaping and rescuing your children. 💪🏼❤️🦋
I grew up in the Catholic Church and my parents were ver traditional. My mum stayed home and was a wonderful caring mum, my Dad worked and was a distant selfish father who also had a heavy hand. I saw from an early age how girls and bouts were treated differently. How my mum was treated differently. I couldn’t put language to it but I felt like I had to scream and play up to show people I was more then a girl. That I was a person. As an adult I left religion. I never married. Had 2 kids out of wedlock. Support myself and only answer to myself. My life has been much happier by not being married and choosing to stay single.
You didn’t have “2 kids out of wedlock” you HAD 2 KIDS independently. Well done!
Sounds like you weren’t having children by men you were even interested in. Very toxic. Feel free to reject tradition but leave children out of your ego trip.
@@eveningstar1independently? So she reproduced on her own
@@eveningstar1 well said
Most religions I think keep women in the subordinate position. My grandmothers were not allowed to use birth control, they had umpteen kids each and could not afford them, lived in poverty. The Catholic church is responsible and of course there is misogyny, women have no authority in the church, yet they are the majority of its supporters. You are born into it, so very difficult to leave, the controlling introjects take root in your subconscious.
I bought Tia Leving's book today on Amazon. The Well-Trained Wife. I thought this interview was really good and it made me want to read her experience. We are seeing so much abuse of females in today's USA that I have become alarmed. I had expected to see legislation to repeal women's right to vote, but Tia explained that. The trend of not allowing women health care has just stunned me.
I think they were talking about the tearing of the hymen, which is painful for many, but by no means all women when it happens. Remember that most young women in that cult experience s3x for the first time in their wedding night, so most of them will probably have an intact hymen (although that's not a given, even with virgins, which is another reason why premarital "virginity examinations" are very problematic).
They probably wouldn't mention SA in all its forms in the orientation, since they want them to look forward to their wedding.
I was raised Christian and this was never a goal for people's children. My own father, who would be over 100 years old now if he was still alive, told me to always have skills to be able to support yourself. He said you can marry the best man in the world but people get sick, people die. Always be able to support yourself.
My mother encouraged education. It always made her sad that she had to quit high school to help support her family.
Don't ever allow a church to run your family!
Our minister was there if people requested counseling, but they never pushed themselves on families. And spouses who were abused weren't told to stay with their abuser.
That is very rare.
@MS-sr6mj It actually was the norm where I lived. I knew a couple girls in school who went to some sort of Pentacostal church who were made to wear long dresses and hair, couldn't go to parties, etc. I didn't realize until I was older that they were probably raised in a very fundamentalist way.
My friends were mostly Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic and Baptist. We all lived typical teenage lives. We wore "regular" clothes, makeup, were allowed to do things like go to dances and movies. We were encouraged to get a good education. Maybe certain areas of the country are more fundamentalist, I don't know.
@@MS-sr6mjIt depends on where you live, maybe? I think in Germany in Christian circle it is the norm.
Same here. Not every Christian denomination is the same.
@@MS-sr6mjIt’s not as rare as you think. I’ve been a churchgoer for 80 years, and that’s always been my experience in at least four different congregations I attended as I moved. In all,from my youngest memories, women and children had a voice. Mind you, I’m in Canada, where we do have fundamentalists, too, but not like the U.S.
I grew up evangelical and later converted to Islam. The parallels between a Trad wife and a Muslim woman's lifestyle are very similar. Different sides of the same coin.
Are you out now?
@@2degucitas Yes, I found a healing and blessed home in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
@@RoselandTrucking I'm happy for you.
@user-cv2tr9qd1f what makes EO better than any other religion?
@@aisnow5788 For the most part ALL religions have truth...in gradients...I found Eastern Orthodox truths about life, spirituality in terms of illuminating the dark places of my soul and sense of well being and spirituality.
I needed a lot of healing and I found that in the Orthodox Church. The church is likened to a hospital and our sins (not judged moralistically) but as a place where we need healing and insight. For that reason, I chose Orthodoxy. To heal from my life.
Her daughter gave her a gift even though her life was so very short. Because of that precious life this woman was able to begin the process of escaping. Somehow looking at it that way is as beautiful as it is tragic. I am a mom, I have never suffered such a loss as that. Without that loss she would not have escaped and her children would have been subsumed by the cult.
What a strong woman. To overcome the lifestyle (religion, violence, patriarchy) that you grew up with is so hard. And religious lifestyle has this extra "fear of god" factor which makes it even harder.
I was raised in the Mormon church, and while some of these methods are foreign to me, the BITE model absolutely applies to Mormonism and Evangelical Christians.
I grew up as a Mormon as well but never believed the spiritual doctrine. Essentially I was agnostic as a child. It was crazy back in the 90s when no one I knew left the church, but I did at 18. A black sheep. I thought I left everything behind but I ended up marrying an abusive non-Mormon man. After deconstructing my entire life, I realized that the patriarchy I grew up in (family and sole community) definitely had a hold of me despite no longer being Mormon. It was ingrained in me that my husband must be smarter than me, be the one i should spend all my energy, time, and love on, basically that they get to choose their life but I’m just a support. My own needs and desires had been suppressed since a toddler essentially, so I carried that forward until my 40s unconsciously. Definitely cult-like.
Applauding your clarity, bravery and honesty. I'm sure your story will comfort and aid someone who needs it.
This lady's life was my worst nightmare. That's probably why I ran from religion as soon as I became an adult.
I ran as a child. Can't fathom how any church would claim me. Laughable.
Yes! Maintain a spiritual relationship with God and abandon man's patriarchal religions (all of them) that serve only men. Every religion on earth has a litany of rules for women, yet very few, if any, for men.
In Judaism the men of have a daily prayer thanking God for not being a woman.
All praise to Tia for realizing she had to remove her children and herself from this toxic situation. That really took guts!
I'm worried for the girls (and boys) getting caught up in these unhealthy, divisive religious organizations.
"Cult without walls" is how I would describe the mormon religion I grew up in as well.
I left my husband. I lost EVERYTHING, left with my daughter.
Well done. Your daughter should be so grateful
You may have lost "everything"...but GAINED your freedom. I get it; I'm a DV survivor who raised my son as a solo single mother across the country from both my abusive ex & highly dysfunctional family. We lived in poverty, but we were free
If you left with your daughter, then you left with everything.
I’m so happy that you got out alive. I pray (because these folks have distorted God’s word) you are made whole and emerge as a role model for people around you.
That is your most precious gift in the whole world. I’m glad that you got out with your daughter.
Those mega churches are all giant cults
What an amazing woman that she can deprogrammed herself . Respect
The 1980's Moral Majority held these beliefs and plans. Now they have power again.
They've been slowly accruing that power. They've never lost an iota of it. They've been quietly putting themselves in positions so that when the time comes they can disband the federal government. The only thing that can stop them is that they didn't breed fast enough. There's not enough of them to convincingly steal elections. That is why they are so desperate. They know they're on the precipice of losing everything. Their only hope is to win in November. The stakes have never been higher. If they lose they've lost for good. They won't be able to make this a white Christian nation. They're dying off.
They played the long game
@@karenholmes6565 They musn't win either.
I don’t agree they have power to subject women to this bc this is a free society that is saturated with opportunity. You don’t even have to respect or listen to your parents/family once you reach the age of 18 so women and girls can navigate society quite comfortably so long as we take advantage of our rights and opportunities.
@@v.j447I think most people have had just about enough of the Evangelical movement and their plans for an Authoritarian Theocracy.
You are a remarkable woman. Thank you for sharing this part of America that so many of us don't know about.
Oh my Lord! This lady is describing my father and my family of origin, plus when she talks about being trained to "people-please" I fully identified with her! This is a very valuable interview. It should ne shown in national TV..
I don’t understand how any intelligent woman would ever submit to this lifestyle, but I am very happy that the guest was able to break free of her chains.
Brainwashed from birth is how. 😢.
Because they are most often indoctrinated into this from birth. This is how they submit into this lifestyle.
Brainwashing, fear.
They are ll intelligent women wh a groomed on how to behave and are kept in the dark about what true love and respect is.
The Quiverful movement indoctrinated people just like any cult.
I am a gay man. I dated a controlling very wealth architect in the 1990's. Oh, the promises made, a new Audi, a home on the beach...all I had to do was OBEY. Yeah, no! Girls, trust me. The cost of being a "TRAD WIFE" is way too high! The perks are a gilded cage.
34:19 Ateood's book on abuse is mostly based on the abuse black women suffered in the US during slavery. Christian fundamentalism was also a source as well as the speaker shared. I just wanted to include that background so that people have a full context for her research.
Evangelicalism really messed me up. Similar issues to this gal. After leaving the church I was lost for many years since I didn't know how to function in a secular society.
I was raised in an Evangelical church as well. I had heard of Bill Gothard but my family didn't really practice that philosophy. 3 girls in my family. My dad and mom both have Masters degrees and wanted us to be educated even if we did end up being stay at home moms. Myself and my sisters all graduated college and remained in Christianity but only agree with submission in the sense that as Christians we are to submit to one another and our husbands, only when those people are making a request that is unselfish and within God's will. Submission is always our choice is what we were taught.
I feel for all these women that are put through these horrible things. This is one of them thousands of reasons I despise religion. This needs to be illegal.
WOW! I just realize why my in laws treated me the way they did. My husband is Southern Baptist and I was Catholic. My in laws tried to teach me to submit, not to my husband so much but to them. We had to go to their house to do yard work, house work, pressuring us to go to their church 3 times a week. Including handing over our paychecks to them. Wanting to take over our finances and put us on a budget. I didn't need friends, new clothes, a trip to the beauty salon, or a car. Everything I needed was in the bible, including managing my diabetes. My mother in law would gleefully tell me that I would die soon, so why go to the doctor? It would be a waste. I had my daughter and Robbie ( mother in law ) was going to teach her to be a good Christian woman. Because she and her husband was counting on me to die soon. Yes, she told me that. That woke me up . Took me awhile but my husband and I cut that toxic family out of our lives, my husband is cordial but my children and I have not talked to them . When Robbie had cancer she wasted no time to see the doctor. I thought everthing that she needed was in the bible, including her cure for the cancer. Listening to you Tia, everything is falling into place and making sense now.
What a bunch of horrible emotional abusers.
I love the women she ran to - I think she does too. What a story - thank you Tia. Great interview
This is an amazing interview. Thank you both of you.
19:19 WOW 😳
So... children are "weapons" and are born with a specific role, purpose and a "job" to do?
They're not even seen as their own individual people...
29:28 so basically anything can can ensure you are mental, emotionally, PHYSICALLY, and socially healthy. They literally want you to deter from visiting a doctor.
This makes me think of Andrea Yates and her husband, having too many children in a short space of time. And we see what happened there.
Yes, I thought of that case too
@LizStewart1442 I thought Mrs. Yates had an awful bout of post parturm depression. And her doctors TOLD the Mr. Yates that she was a danger to their children, but he didn't listen.
@@utterlyviolet Andrea Yates had postpartum psychosis
powerful conversation, grateful for your courage
I'm a new subscriber, this was very deep and I'm glad I've subscribed. Great interviewer.
Tia, you're a survivor, you're brave. As a man, I apologize and I feel so sorry that women have to live in a world where they're looked down and treated as less. We must do better. I'm so sorry.
Thank you for this interview. All of my love and support for Tia! Though I was not raised in such a strict religion, her story is never the less extremely relatable and blood-chilling. I am grateful for her courage to tell it!
It’s interesting her husband wasn’t brought up in the group and yet he seemed to fit into the lifestyle seamlessly.
Of course he did. It's totally advantageous for men!
Men love this shit, it's instinctual for them
He might have been raised similarly.
It attracts abusive men. The religion is just what gets used for justification of the abusive and controlling system. The traits that draw men to these religious sects are universal selfish and insecure human traits
The Purity Ball - Mike Johnson crazy.
Clara brought clarity. Bless her memory.❤❤❤❤❤
that is simultaneously interesting and horrifying. i'm well-past three score and ten. you begin to realize that much of what we think we know is really conditioning. and most of that conditioning is not even consciously done; it is almost automatic. the fish doesn't notice the water; the humans don't notice the air (till they start choking on it.) of course it's not much consolation that this ridiculous arrangement is misery for the males, too. i'm very glad you and your family escaped, and i'm happy that 'no filter' is calling attention to this destructive craziness.
Great interview. What a heroic story!
This is why every woman should memorize the wife of a noble man in Proverbs 31. She’s large and in charge and doesn’t need her husband which allows her to just love her husband.
Unfortunately Proverbs 30 *edit: Proverbs 31:30* (when isolated) can be used to isolate and subjugate women, when a church interprets and teaches it's followers that a woman's access to god is through her father or husband.
@@SaltySerial wives and husbands are to submit to each other but people who twist scripture try to teach that a woman’s place is in the home taking care of her husband and children but not working in the home. Proverbs 31 clearly shows that she is to work from home and if you’ve ever known a farmer’s wife you see that she does exactly that. I cringe when people say that financial decisions should only be made by the husband. What if he doesn’t know how to manage money well? My parents were quite compatible with money even though they disagreed on the topic but she was a saver and he was an investor so they did well together financially even though they fought about it. My mom worked at home and didn’t work outside the home until the youngest was a teenager.
Thank you Danielle 💙 Keep speaking the truth!!!! Vote Harris Walz 2024 !!!
And being a childfree cat lady is the improper choice to these people! That choice looks like an optimal option, IMO.
Sounds exactly like the Gypsy lifestyle. A women's wedding is her funeral. Not body, but mind and spirit.
As in Roma?
Yes Roma are hugely controlling and sexist, in gypsy Spain girls get pulled from school at 14 by their families and married at 16 still to this day
@@eleonorabartoli2225Yes, I think that’s what was being referred to.
I was in this same sect until I was 6. I remember alllll of the things she talks about. It was so wild....girls as young as 4 and 5 were sexualized. Thank God my dad had the wisdom to get us out.
Excellent interview. Thank You for your courage and determination to survive and thrive. You children are lucky to have You as a Mother❤️🦋
I have nothing against true Christianity or even being a traditional wife.
Her situation is a domestic abuse issue with a bad man hiding behind religion to try to get away with it. Oppression in the home is not supposed to be the life of a Christian. Her husband dropped the ball, and even a network of people got carried away and went too far with power and control and even started making doctrines of men above God's word in scripture. People get proud focusing on works and less on God's grace. Behind every cult leader is pride, a thirst for power, greed, and usually hidden sexual sins. What she experienced is not what true Christianity is supposed to look like. There are many wolves among the flock.
Bless you. I am upset by listening here and the response is to lump all Christians in this category. Please people. Read the scriptures for yourselves. See what is behind this “wolf in sheep’s clothing” and what is going on with children and marriage outside the church-such devastation!By the way, I made a decision to get married because I wanted marriage. Do not do that. Marry someone you know very, very well, w/o sexual intimacy, which clouds your judgement. Also. Listen to people you trust. My ex was so different than what I thought he was. He found others and God gave me what my friends call a “Hallmark movie” relationship.
Absolutely chilling.
What frightens me is the preponderance of such backward thinking in 2024, and the fact that when certain issues come up, then these women are encouraged to vote! These cults have a frightening effect on politics.
Parenting in these groups is all based on intergenerational undercare. The literal developmental damage that goes on here hits the genes in epigenetics….shit that needs to be turned on doesn’t happen. Normal skills for being human get diverted because energy is focused on containing the chaos of unreliability in parenting. Little babies learn they are not safe, a functional need for healthy development of our species. In fact, moral capacity and emotional regulation doesn’t happen either. It turns into domination and survival. It is mind blowing the literal intergenerational hell these teachers and parents are creating. 😭😭
Fortunately, Tia could see she was raising the next generation of abusers and took action.
41:41 I have heard that voice in my head only 5 times in my Life and all were life and death experiences.
Maybe I'm naive, but here's my opinion.
Before getting married, a couple has to talk about the important issues like: children (yes or no), work (is the woman willing to stay at home or not / and don't strangle me; it's often a money issue), money (spending on what / how much).
When and only when they agree on all of these subjects, it's a good start into marriage. When they don't agree, they should part. Don't think you'll change your spouse a f t e r getting married.
Those things are already determined prior to marriage. Why do you think they’re trained from a young age to be quiet and control the females? Everyone follows the process and know their roles in preparation to recreate this structure.
I was never in a cult but I did experience abuse in my first marriage. My second marriage was a bit better, but my husband had a hard time keeping a job. I was never taught that I could do better by myself. I was always encouraged to find a husband. Fast forward 30 years later, I have been on my own and working. Now retired but still pick up work part time to supplement my retirement.
I stumbled across this and I am struck by the relationship to JD VNces expressed belief about childless women .
I saw an interview with Tia last night and now found Mia's interview. I'm fascinated as an Aussie, I have a brother (and his family ) in Canada, who seems to be in a religious cult. I wan't to understand him and how to relate to him, as we were brought up in a non religious family. I've just downloaded Tia's book - Well trained wife...from audible.
This book was an amazing testimony
Love Tia ❤ reading her book currently!
Excellent interview, thank you.
You are incredible!❤ I am so glad you got out!❤
Wow…thanks for sharing your story 💜
This is why I don't do mega churches! They seem anti religious to me. Once you invest your churches money in becoming MEGA... you have lost sight of the purpose. I want no part of it. I live less than 2 blocks from the biggest mega church in our country and probably 80 percent of my neighbors are members. Let me be the first to say this neighborhood is weird... the ppl are not kind of friendly we are a year later treated as outsiders.
Leaving Eden podcast. One of the co-hosts grew up in the IFB, independent fundamental baptist church. The podcast talks about her family leaving along with episodes on other cults.
Brave & Bravo
I was listening and when she said her husband wasnt into sex, that to me is a big red flag, that he may be gay and fighting those feelings he took it out on her, she was the cause of his misery.... But he could just be a TWDC
More often men who hate physical contact, maybe including sex, and also have abusive tendencies were a victim of abuse themselves. Their history of course does not make their behaviour acceptable. People who are that angry that they are gay historically take out their frustrations on their own gender, not the opposite sex.
Or he’s asexual and understands that even less, so he takes out his lack of attraction on her!
Very interesting interview 👍
I'm shocked!
Clara gave the gift of Clara-ty.
I wouldn't last ten seconds in that environment. Having been raised Catholic I've always believed religion should be illegal.
Obedience at what cost???? We pay a huge price. Thanks for bringing this truth to the surface.😢😮😅
So many IBLP connections in these. My church us very traditional, but no one follows or even has the IBLP doctrine.
Are there any similarities?
The horrors this woman experienced doesn't seem as much like a trad wife as it does an abusive religious cult, which is what the IBLP is. The trad wife label to me is just a modernized version of the 50's Suzy Homemaker and one which a the woman would have the freedom to made that choice. IBLP takes every bit of choice away from women; it is so, so destructive. So glad she was able to break free and go on to build a better life for herself and her children.
Trad wife lifestyle is inherently abusive because you are at the mercy of a man who can control the finances and control you as a result (including pressuring you into sex for money). Any woman "choosing" that sh t is as brainwashed as the cult ladies
Exactly. Tradwife is a lifestyle women CHOOSE based on an idealized version of the ‘50s housewife. This is FORCED on these girls through brainwashing. Huge difference.
You don't think those 50s ladiesgot abused too? They also couldn't vote, have a bank account etc
@@jessiemedinaofficial Of course abuse happened, and probably quite a bit - it always has, unfortunately. Women were given the right to vote in 1920 and California gave women the right to open a bank account, regardless of marital status, in 1862. Other states soon followed. However, credit accounts were not possible until the 1970's.
Art is forbidden! Art is creativity, imagination, individuality & personal joy. Well education is forbidden too - literature, history, critical thinking. Then there is the homeschooling & isolation - prevents you from interconnecting with any possibility of encountering another point of view which would raise doubt and questions.
And education for girls stops at grade 6 or 7!
When you say "it's mainstream", does that mean that there are whole states of people living like this? How many people are in this cult or a similar one, what percentage of the population does it concern?
Or does it mean that ideas of this cult have seeped into the culture and values of "more mainstream" churches?
I'd like to know how many Americans live in an alternate universe's early 19th century. For how many people would project 2025 basically mean no change at all or a welcome validation of their lifestyle?
If you take a look at history and see what kind of ppl migrated to the US, you will understand. The first waves were that kind of ppl that we call extremists nowadays. Like Taliban and IS.
It’s becoming mainstream. Mostly through the internet.
💜Hey, Mia: I went to listen to Part 2 with Tia Levings, but there is no 'Play' button for that episode! Can someone fix that, please?!!
I had an aquaintance who was a huuuuge fan of the Duggar series and back then i had no idea what it truly was about. But no way she could have watched that and not know how fucked up it was. She called herself a feminist.
I wonder what her relationship with her parents is like
Religion. What’s the harm?
This sounds a lot like Islam
That is about as "generally Islam" as it is "all Christians".
Yup. And the Handmaid's Tale too. It's concerning there are Americans who believe in this and indoctrinate it.
Too much religion of any type is bad for women.
@@claudiaschneider5744 As Sarah Edmondson once said on the subject, "Nobody joins a cult on purpose." She was someone who was once in a cult.
How can anyone still believe in religious indoctrination and the myth of god after this?
Very disappointed that I didn't find the link to part two. Correction, I did find the link but there was nothing to click on when I went there. Even subscribed but that didn't work either. I sent you an email about this but from the auto-reply I got, I'll never hear back from you. Such a disappointment as I really wanted to hear the rest of her story.🤔
email support@mamamia.com.au so we can help you out 👍
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Is she only 40?? She looks way older. Wow!
A headquarters in Australia? Ugh.
Horrific, isn't it? Hillsong is enormous too. I heard that Australia has the third largest evangelical population in the world, after the US and Canada. Scary.
The fact that we need underground railroads for anything is absolutely ridiculous, I cried a few times already and I'm not even though the video. I can't stand what everything is coming to. It's so bad, and it's getting worse.
There has always been "underground" systems to help abused women escape. That's nothing new.
Totally, this sounds like “The Hand Maid’s Tale” or the last season of “Fargo”. The only big difference is that her story was not fiction but all REAL... happening in some weird random places within U.S. Outraging.
This is a great idea, have fun!
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He sounds like he was a narcissist.
More like a sociopath.
I live in Oregon. We actually are the least churched state and have few evangelical churches and especially none that you subscribe. It is hard for me to imagine and seems like a real nightmare. It's bad enough that they have their own world but it is not okay they want to push their agenda on the rest of us.
Nobody in Christianity is pushing their agenda on anyone, except for cults and extremist political groups like Christian Nationalism. Ordinary Christianity does say you must preach the Gospel to people. But in a democracy, anyone can express their point of view to others. This woman was in a cult. Bill Gothard and the other hard-core fundamentalist theologians who built on his work are running cults. IBLP is a cult. Even some of the Dugger kids are coming out and saying this.
💔
Literally just the name they call God is the only fundamental difference!
I always knew America was a primitive country but I didn't suspect it was this bad.
Where do you come from?
The husband was a closet case, right?
I object your lumping “Traditional Wife” along with the word “ Cult”. There are Traditional Wives today who freely CHOOSE this role, as well-formed adults, NOT indoctrinated/threatened, and are v/happy and fulfilled in it. Theirs is not a cult, and it’s a disservice to paint all women in broad brush strokes, those exposed to/harmed by these adverse words/behaviors. I’m very sorry that this woman/any woman grows up with disordered notions, and now need to re-program themselves will be praying for them.
Ephesians 5 .22 .
Don't forget to read 5:21, and 5:25-28. Men have to submit too. I recommend the Jubilee Bible. It flat out says in verse 21 that both need to submit to each other equally.
Please. She married the wrong man, foolishly, after only 4 weeks. I grew up the same as her and was in FL the same time she was. No one, and I mean NO ONE, would encourage that. She needs to put the blame where it is due. On her own foolishness, and in her parents for encouraging it. Our denomination (not ibpl, but similar) never would have pushed or condoned this behavior. They would have told her to wait at least a year.
Nice victim blaming.
Stop watching TLC. Spanking is not legal all over the US.
is it a lie than?!
What are you talking about? Spanking is absolutely legal all over the United States.
@brandy4530 Corporate punishment is illegal in the United States. That includes violating a child's body by performing violent acts for the purpose of inflicting pain.
@@alexiswinter6948No, you're wrong. With the whole of the internet at your disposal you should know that.
@@alexiswinter6948 coroporal punishment at home is legal in all US States and in school it's legal in 17 states. You can google that.
That's why one christian cult left my country and moved to the US because they are allowed again to spank even babies and toddlers and keep their children out of school. Here their kids were brought to school by police and put in foster care as soon as they showed any signs or told of being spanked.