Wow ... Kudos to the speaker (sorry, I never heard his name). It's a rare gift to present a difficult subject with an genuine easy humor and clarity that leaves your audience with a good general understanding. A good general understanding has always inspired me to dive in and learn more.
I'm semi-sure he's saying at 9:27 that temperature is a measure of only the average molecular translational kinetic energy in a parcel of matter and excludes molecular rotational kinetic energy, molecular vibrational kinetic energy & transverse electromagnetic radiation. I sometimes wonder what's the answer to this question I posed in November 2017 and didn't get the promised reply yet as of August 2022 (I'm still waiting): Monday, November 13, 2017 12:58 STAR MSU onboard calibration procedure mismatches a solid-housed thermometer placed in the atmosphere Hello, Let me look into this and get back to you. Sincerely, From Me November 11, 2017 4:00 PM Subject: STAR MSU onboard calibration procedure mismatches a solid-housed thermometer placed in the atmosphere If I'm understanding the STAR microwave sounding unit (MSU/AMSU) onboard calibration procedure correctly, then it measures a different physical aspect of Earth's atmosphere than is measured by a thermometer (either liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance) and it measures a lesser physical aspect. The underlying reason for the difference is that there is no long-wave radiation (LWR) inside a solid such as a platinum-resistance thermometer. I've never heard a climate scientist mention this. If the lower tropospheric (for example) atmosphere warms then there is an anomaly in these forms of energy: - molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy), - LWR energy, - molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs (primarily H2O in the gaseous form). The warm target in a MSU/AMSU is a solid blackbody whose temperature is measured by platinum resistance thermometers embedded in it. The microwave flux density from it is used to scale microwave flux density (thermal emission) from molecules (primarily oxygen) in the atmosphere. The issue I see is that this onboard calibration procedure causes the instrument to scale such that it measures only molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) in the atmosphere and excludes LWR energy and molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs in the atmosphere. This means that differentiation over time of this proxy measures only heat anomaly. A liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance thermometer placed in the atmosphere at elevation 2m (for example) above ocean or land surface measures: - molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) plus - LWR energy plus - molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs (primarily H2O in the gaseous form) because LWR energy and molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs are transmuted to molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) upon impacting upon the molecules of the solid and I understand that there is no transverse electromagnetic radiation inside a solid. Placement of the thermometer inside an enclosure does not exclude the LWR energy and molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs due to GHG molecule collisions. Thus, differentiation over time of the liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance thermometer proxies for temperature measures the sum of all three anomalies but differentiation over time of the microwave flux density (thermal emission) from molecules (primarily oxygen) in the atmosphere at the example elevation of 2m measures only the molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) anomaly with the STAR microwave sounding unit (MSU/AMSU) onboard calibration procedure as described. In order for the MSU/AMSU to measure the same physical aspect as a liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance thermometer it would be necessary to calibrate with the warm target being atmospheric gases in close proximity to a solid whose temperature is measured by platinum-resistance thermometers, or a compensating adjustment could be made during analysis such as RSS and UAH based upon the ratio of LWR energy + molecular vibrational energy of GHGs to molecular kinetic energy in the atmosphere. Please inform whether: 1) I'm misunderstanding the physics, or 2) I'm not including another aspect of STAR microwave sounding unit (MSU/AMSU) onboard calibration procedure that deals with this issue, or 3) A compensating adjustment for this is made during analysis such as RSS and UAH based upon the ratio of LWR + molecular vibrational energy of GHGs energy to molecular kinetic energy in the atmosphere, or 4) The ratio of LWR + molecular vibrational energy of GHGs energy to molecular kinetic energy in the atmosphere is so negligible (far less than uncertainties) that no compensating adjustment for it is required for analysis such as RSS and UAH. Thanks
Wonderful insight into acoustic gass measurements, So temperatures a porly chosen attribute and we should be using mvv.or does it compensate for electrical interactions and just give us a warm fuzzy feeling. Interesting how temperature is described. Love the triple point flask. Temperature compensation of clocks might close the circle.
thank you very very much ..at last some proper information ..excellent. I can not find anything like this for how to measure altitude precisely and how you do it...eg is a hypsometer better than ...etc -anyone found anything good or where to look?
Wow ... Kudos to the speaker (sorry, I never heard his name). It's a rare gift to present a difficult subject with an genuine easy humor and clarity that leaves your audience with a good general understanding. A good general understanding has always inspired me to dive in and learn more.
The Speaker is Micheal de Podesta. He is British national, a Queen's awardee, and one of pillars of contemporary thermometry.
Thanks for putting this online!
This is the best video about temperature and thermometry in whole youtube
Thank you for sharing, this is a very interesting subject!
Excellent
Amazing talk.
I'm semi-sure he's saying at 9:27 that temperature is a measure of only the average molecular translational kinetic energy in a parcel of matter and excludes molecular rotational kinetic energy, molecular vibrational kinetic energy & transverse electromagnetic radiation. I sometimes wonder what's the answer to this question I posed in November 2017 and didn't get the promised reply yet as of August 2022 (I'm still waiting):
Monday, November 13, 2017 12:58
STAR MSU onboard calibration procedure mismatches a solid-housed thermometer placed in the atmosphere
Hello, Let me look into this and get back to you.
Sincerely,
From Me November 11, 2017 4:00 PM
Subject: STAR MSU onboard calibration procedure mismatches a solid-housed thermometer placed in the atmosphere
If I'm understanding the STAR microwave sounding unit (MSU/AMSU) onboard calibration procedure correctly, then it measures a different physical aspect of Earth's atmosphere than is measured by a thermometer (either liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance) and it measures a lesser physical aspect. The underlying reason for the difference is that there is no long-wave radiation (LWR) inside a solid such as a platinum-resistance thermometer. I've never heard a climate scientist mention this.
If the lower tropospheric (for example) atmosphere warms then there is an anomaly in these forms of energy:
- molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy),
- LWR energy,
- molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs (primarily H2O in the gaseous form).
The warm target in a MSU/AMSU is a solid blackbody whose temperature is measured by platinum resistance thermometers embedded in it. The microwave flux density from it is used to scale microwave flux density (thermal emission) from molecules (primarily oxygen) in the atmosphere. The issue I see is that this onboard calibration procedure causes the instrument to scale such that it measures only molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) in the atmosphere and excludes LWR energy and molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs in the atmosphere. This means that differentiation over time of this proxy measures only heat anomaly.
A liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance thermometer placed in the atmosphere at elevation 2m (for example) above ocean or land surface measures:
- molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) plus
- LWR energy plus
- molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs (primarily H2O in the gaseous form)
because LWR energy and molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs are transmuted to molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) upon impacting upon the molecules of the solid and I understand that there is no transverse electromagnetic radiation inside a solid. Placement of the thermometer inside an enclosure does not exclude the LWR energy and molecular vibrational energy of the GHGs due to GHG molecule collisions.
Thus, differentiation over time of the liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance thermometer proxies for temperature measures the sum of all three anomalies but differentiation over time of the microwave flux density (thermal emission) from molecules (primarily oxygen) in the atmosphere at the example elevation of 2m measures only the molecular kinetic energy (molecular translational energy) anomaly with the STAR microwave sounding unit (MSU/AMSU) onboard calibration procedure as described. In order for the MSU/AMSU to measure the same physical aspect as a liquid-expansion or platinum-resistance thermometer it would be necessary to calibrate with the warm target being atmospheric gases in close proximity to a solid whose temperature is measured by platinum-resistance thermometers, or a compensating adjustment could be made during analysis such as RSS and UAH based upon the ratio of LWR energy + molecular vibrational energy of GHGs to molecular kinetic energy in the atmosphere.
Please inform whether:
1) I'm misunderstanding the physics, or
2) I'm not including another aspect of STAR microwave sounding unit (MSU/AMSU) onboard calibration procedure that deals with this issue, or
3) A compensating adjustment for this is made during analysis such as RSS and UAH based upon the ratio of LWR + molecular vibrational energy of GHGs energy to molecular kinetic energy in the atmosphere, or
4) The ratio of LWR + molecular vibrational energy of GHGs energy to molecular kinetic energy in the atmosphere is so negligible (far less than uncertainties) that no compensating adjustment for it is required for analysis such as RSS and UAH.
Thanks
Wonderful insight into acoustic gass measurements, So temperatures a porly chosen attribute and we should be using mvv.or does it compensate for electrical interactions and just give us a warm fuzzy feeling. Interesting how temperature is described. Love the triple point flask. Temperature compensation of clocks might close the circle.
beautiful
Wow awesome, really appreciated the information
thank you very very much ..at last some proper information ..excellent.
I can not find anything like this for how to measure altitude precisely and how you do it...eg is a hypsometer better than ...etc -anyone found anything good or where to look?
awesomeness now I can calibrate my incubators better
Loved it!
so which is most accurate ....