What a race!!! Wasn't sure the others had a chance until they hit the str. and lined up across the track and they all was coming, then all of a sudden no-one could make up any ground the Treve (FR) and he went on the win by 2 lenghts. Outstanding.
The winner was fantastic but had she been drawn 20 it wouldn't have been so straightforward. KH is the horse to take out of this race, his performance was incredible.
Truly, all you can do is tip your hat to the class act that is Madame Criquette Head-Maarek! Treve may have been below her best for much of the season, but she was certainly back to her best when it mattered for the Arc. First horse to win back to back renewals of the Arc in 30+ years. Awfully good runs also by Flintshire, Taghrooda, & Kingston Hill. Especially by Taghrooda & Kingston Hill having to break so wide from stalls #17 & #20 respectively. I was also very impressed with Flintshire's turn of foot in the final 200 meters. This horse loves fast ground, and if Andre Fabre sends him to Santa Anita for the Breeders Cup Turf he'll likely take some beating, because he'll be almost assuredly have firm, fast ground at Santa Anita to run over.
I said after this years Vermeilles that if she won the Arc I would be astounded. I will gladly eat my words, but I will also say it is amazing what happens when you ride the horse the right way. I still say she was ridden too far back to ever win the Vermeilles.....
I agree with the others. What were the Japanese jockeys doing? Horses do not win the Arc from last place ever! I think Harp Star's rider thought he was in the Melbourne Cup! Even they don't get that far back in such a strong field. Anyway, it is a feather in the cap for Treve. She ha probably beaten the strongest Arc field ever.
I know its the easiest thing in the world to blame a jockey and its not sour grapes as I did not back harp star but please, if a European jockey rides harp star she finishes in the money at least, her jockey gave her to much to do and the rest of the field no respect by placing her where he did, what did he think he was riding, that said it was great to see treve back to her brilliant best .
Well done to Treve but Geez look at the ridiculous amount of ground Harp Star made up in the straight from a mile back from an horrendous ride whilst being so incredibly wide,Harp Star is easily the best horse in that race,she would have won by the length of the straight if she had the same position that Treve did.
Harp Star did the last 600m half a second quicker than Treve. Even if HS was within 3 lengths of Treve she would have won. Annoying thing is the jockey didn't even put HS in the slipstream, always 2-3 lengths behind the main pack. Horrible ride but well done Treve
HP was only able to recover 2 lengths from AK in the home straight and then only finished 1 length in front of him at the line so even though HP showed a good turn of foot you must also think that she saved alot of energy at the beginning of the race unlike say Kingston Hill which used alot of energy to get in front. I would say the best horse in the field was the winner Treve followed by Taghrooda which went from draw 15 and Kingston Hill from 20.
daz redican not denying she made serious ground, I was arguing that the fact that she made cheap ground and was entitled to because she saved alot of energy in the early part of the race. Prince Gibraltar and Dolniya were 2 others that were making cheap ground at the end of affairs.
Alec Head says Treve is up there with Ribot and Sea Bird, yet she was only rated 129 this year and 134 last year. Do either of them actually defeat Treve in the region of 5 lengths, especially based upon last years performance? I struggle to comprehend that. She gave Orfevre, a 132 horse, a 10lb hammering last year.. so why isn;t she rated at least 140? Sea The Stars is rated 140, and there is absolutely no chance he beats Treve by 3 lengths, I'm just not having that. So Timeform need to seriously re-address some of their ratings. Even for this years 129 rating, it's assumed that Flintshire is some average animal, but he's obviously fulfilling last years hype and he's shown his true colours in a properly run race, not to mention his own improvement. She's beat a deep field so convincingly, which tells me 129 is laughable. Even more laughable was when I seen that Shared Belief was somehow more impressive in his last race than Treve was in this years Arc! Something is not right.. Shared Belief is absolutely not a better animal than Treve.
Hi Lee i remember thinking a similar thing last year - however you have forgotten to take into account the huge weight allowance Treve received from Orfervre last year for being a filly and 3yr old. I believe that Timeform actually had it closer to 4L than 5L (5l being widely reported). Once you take her weight into account then her 134 is about right. Now if she had beaten a 132 horse (who ran to 132) by 5L this year then she would have been worthy of a 140 isn rating as she wouldn't have had the weight allowance benefit - but she didn't and she was never going to. The WFA scale dis not exact science some horses especially fillies may benefit hugely from it because nobody can tell how well developed they are. Treve was clearly an overly developed 3yr old who had a huge advantage and who's performance last year flattered her real ability. The idea behind WFA is that she is supposed to improve the 7LB as a 4 year old and in theory run to the same mark. I would say this years Arc was open as opposed to being hugely strong. Just a Way attained his lofty rating over a mile. Harp Star and Gold Ship were given shocking rides and HS finishing speed suggests she may well have beaten Treve given a proper ride - although i do concede Mako's point below that she might not have shown the same turn of foot if ridden more handily. The reality is that Flintshire is a steady horse and certainly not a great one - his form is there to see and although he's improved he is certainly no superstar. Taghrooda has run a decent race but at the end of the day when you have a St Ledger winner finishing 3rd having run out wide then you know that the form book has gone out the window. On that note the Arc is such an idiosyncratic race - the false straight, the size of the field, the importance of the draw, luck in the running - the horses with the most ability don't always win it - also don't forget some of the main contenders have had long hard seasons compared to other horses who have been aimed at the Arc - for me the Arc is a form graveyard tbh. In answering your Q yes i do believe those horses would have been that far ahead of her on sunday had they run to their absolute peak - although TF ratings are not 2 pounds per length - it varies depending on how the race is run etc.
At the end of the day it seems inconceivable that Ribot or Seabird could have been so far ahead but you forget these gorses were absolute superstars and freaks of nature that come along once in a lifetime. If you could get in a Time Machine before Frankel and suggest that a horse rated similarly to Canford Cliffs (Excelebration) could have been beaten by 11L then you'd have laughed your head off or that a Breeders Cup Turf and Dubai Sheema Classic winner and Champion Stakes winner could be brushed a side by 7L barely coming off the bridle - you wouldn't have believed it and nor would i for that matter - seeing is believing
simon picket A very interesting and in-depth response, thanks. But I guess I did not know you had to minus the fillies allowance.. I thought she would be judged with the allowance, as she deserves it for being a filly.. It means timeform don't have any regard for the weight or the sex of the horse, they're just judging purely on the animals they are.. so I guess 134 does make sense in that respect, but she still post a performance of a 140+ horse, visually speaking. - It's confusing logic because it means a horse who finishes second, can actually post a higher timeform rating, once you minus the winners weight allowance.. e.g STS runs a 138 performance in 2012, 3 lengths clear of Orfevre,, Treve's 2 lengths clear of STS.. yet she's rated 134 ..(Btw I've never seen this happen, e.g Telescope isn't higher rated than Taghrooda after giving her massive weight.. but if they ran on levels, there's no way she beats him in that King George, so makes no sense..) ..so for this reason I think Treve deserves to be labelled at least a 140 horse. There is no way STS would have beat Treve in 2012, which means 134 is still a joke.
Lee SOG Sorry Lee i wrote my response quite late last night and appeared to tie myself in knots! A number of things i said last night were incorrect. Having looked at the situation again and thankfully having retained my conversation with TF on FB - I am now in a better position to explain the situation .... unfortunately im at a funeral this morning but i will give you a detailed response later this afternoon mate. I thin the response hey gave makes perfect sense and will hopefully shed some light on their ratings for you.
![2024 Nov 20 | R07 - Frontal Shot | QUINCY (1) [1:16.8]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9gu2PxOiFs/mqdefault.jpg)
Mais quel cheval ! Le meilleur au monde j’en ai toujour des frissons quand je regarde cette course . Bravo crickette
What a race!!! Wasn't sure the others had a chance until they hit the str. and lined up across the track and they all was coming, then all of a sudden no-one could make up any ground the Treve (FR) and he went on the win by 2 lenghts. Outstanding.
From stall 20, kingston hill ran a fantastic race and of course great ride from andrea atzeni.
The winner was fantastic but had she been drawn 20 it wouldn't have been so straightforward. KH is the horse to take out of this race, his performance was incredible.
Bravo Trêve, Thierry et Crickette !
Truly, all you can do is tip your hat to the class act that is Madame Criquette Head-Maarek! Treve may have been below her best for much of the season, but she was certainly back to her best when it mattered for the Arc. First horse to win back to back renewals of the Arc in 30+ years. Awfully good runs also by Flintshire, Taghrooda, & Kingston Hill. Especially by Taghrooda & Kingston Hill having to break so wide from stalls #17 & #20 respectively. I was also very impressed with Flintshire's turn of foot in the final 200 meters. This horse loves fast ground, and if Andre Fabre sends him to Santa Anita for the Breeders Cup Turf he'll likely take some beating, because he'll be almost assuredly have firm, fast ground at Santa Anita to run over.
Fabulous! Congrats to the connections!
I said after this years Vermeilles that if she won the Arc I would be astounded. I will gladly eat my words, but I will also say it is amazing what happens when you ride the horse the right way. I still say she was ridden too far back to ever win the Vermeilles.....
Treve just wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This was surreal to witness.
thank god for the pmu. 3 horses for one bet did ectot. still get the winner vive la france
My god she's a speed machine
I agree with the others. What were the Japanese jockeys doing? Horses do not win the Arc from last place ever! I think Harp Star's rider thought he was in the Melbourne Cup! Even they don't get that far back in such a strong field. Anyway, it is a feather in the cap for Treve. She ha probably beaten the strongest Arc field ever.
I know its the easiest thing in the world to blame a jockey and its not sour grapes as I did not back harp star but please, if a European jockey rides harp star she finishes in the money at least, her jockey gave her to much to do and the rest of the field no respect by placing her where he did, what did he think he was riding, that said it was great to see treve back to her brilliant best .
bravissimo pour la pouliche le jockey et l'entraîneur !!
Well done to Treve but Geez look at the ridiculous amount of ground Harp Star made up in the straight from a mile back from an horrendous ride whilst being so incredibly wide,Harp Star is easily the best horse in that race,she would have won by the length of the straight if she had the same position that Treve did.
Harp Star did the last 600m half a second quicker than Treve. Even if HS was within 3 lengths of Treve she would have won. Annoying thing is the jockey didn't even put HS in the slipstream, always 2-3 lengths behind the main pack. Horrible ride but well done Treve
HP was only able to recover 2 lengths from AK in the home straight and then only finished 1 length in front of him at the line so even though HP showed a good turn of foot you must also think that she saved alot of energy at the beginning of the race unlike say Kingston Hill which used alot of energy to get in front.
I would say the best horse in the field was the winner Treve followed by Taghrooda which went from draw 15 and Kingston Hill from 20.
makoceans i was on treve , but harp star made up some serious ground there..unreal
daz redican not denying she made serious ground, I was arguing that the fact that she made cheap ground and was entitled to because she saved alot of energy in the early part of the race. Prince Gibraltar and Dolniya were 2 others that were making cheap ground at the end of affairs.
i agree totally with that
The winner Treve had the best trip.
Harp Star ( No. 19 ? ) which lost by about 6 length, indeed had the worst trip of the pack. Who was riding NO. 19
Alec Head says Treve is up there with Ribot and Sea Bird, yet she was only rated 129 this year and 134 last year. Do either of them actually defeat Treve in the region of 5 lengths, especially based upon last years performance? I struggle to comprehend that. She gave Orfevre, a 132 horse, a 10lb hammering last year.. so why isn;t she rated at least 140? Sea The Stars is rated 140, and there is absolutely no chance he beats Treve by 3 lengths, I'm just not having that. So Timeform need to seriously re-address some of their ratings. Even for this years 129 rating, it's assumed that Flintshire is some average animal, but he's obviously fulfilling last years hype and he's shown his true colours in a properly run race, not to mention his own improvement. She's beat a deep field so convincingly, which tells me 129 is laughable. Even more laughable was when I seen that Shared Belief was somehow more impressive in his last race than Treve was in this years Arc! Something is not right.. Shared Belief is absolutely not a better animal than Treve.
Hi Lee i remember thinking a similar thing last year - however you have forgotten to take into account the huge weight allowance Treve received from Orfervre last year for being a filly and 3yr old. I believe that Timeform actually had it closer to 4L than 5L (5l being widely reported). Once you take her weight into account then her 134 is about right.
Now if she had beaten a 132 horse (who ran to 132) by 5L this year then she would have been worthy of a 140 isn rating as she wouldn't have had the weight allowance benefit - but she didn't and she was never going to. The WFA scale dis not exact science some horses especially fillies may benefit hugely from it because nobody can tell how well developed they are. Treve was clearly an overly developed 3yr old who had a huge advantage and who's performance last year flattered her real ability. The idea behind WFA is that she is supposed to improve the 7LB as a 4 year old and in theory run to the same mark.
I would say this years Arc was open as opposed to being hugely strong. Just a Way attained his lofty rating over a mile. Harp Star and Gold Ship were given shocking rides and HS finishing speed suggests she may well have beaten Treve given a proper ride - although i do concede Mako's point below that she might not have shown the same turn of foot if ridden more handily. The reality is that Flintshire is a steady horse and certainly not a great one - his form is there to see and although he's improved he is certainly no superstar. Taghrooda has run a decent race but at the end of the day when you have a St Ledger winner finishing 3rd having run out wide then you know that the form book has gone out the window.
On that note the Arc is such an idiosyncratic race - the false straight, the size of the field, the importance of the draw, luck in the running - the horses with the most ability don't always win it - also don't forget some of the main contenders have had long hard seasons compared to other horses who have been aimed at the Arc - for me the Arc is a form graveyard tbh.
In answering your Q yes i do believe those horses would have been that far ahead of her on sunday had they run to their absolute peak - although TF ratings are not 2 pounds per length - it varies depending on how the race is run etc.
At the end of the day it seems inconceivable that Ribot or Seabird could have been so far ahead but you forget these gorses were absolute superstars and freaks of nature that come along once in a lifetime.
If you could get in a Time Machine before Frankel and suggest that a horse rated similarly to Canford Cliffs (Excelebration) could have been beaten by 11L then you'd have laughed your head off or that a Breeders Cup Turf and Dubai Sheema Classic winner and Champion Stakes winner could be brushed a side by 7L barely coming off the bridle - you wouldn't have believed it and nor would i for that matter - seeing is believing
simon picket A very interesting and in-depth response, thanks. But I guess I did not know you had to minus the fillies allowance.. I thought she would be judged with the allowance, as she deserves it for being a filly.. It means timeform don't have any regard for the weight or the sex of the horse, they're just judging purely on the animals they are.. so I guess 134 does make sense in that respect, but she still post a performance of a 140+ horse, visually speaking. - It's confusing logic because it means a horse who finishes second, can actually post a higher timeform rating, once you minus the winners weight allowance.. e.g STS runs a 138 performance in 2012, 3 lengths clear of Orfevre,, Treve's 2 lengths clear of STS.. yet she's rated 134 ..(Btw I've never seen this happen, e.g Telescope isn't higher rated than Taghrooda after giving her massive weight.. but if they ran on levels, there's no way she beats him in that King George, so makes no sense..) ..so for this reason I think Treve deserves to be labelled at least a 140 horse. There is no way STS would have beat Treve in 2012, which means 134 is still a joke.
Lee SOG Sorry Lee i wrote my response quite late last night and appeared to tie myself in knots! A number of things i said last night were incorrect. Having looked at the situation again and thankfully having retained my conversation with TF on FB - I am now in a better position to explain the situation .... unfortunately im at a funeral this morning but i will give you a detailed response later this afternoon mate. I thin the response hey gave makes perfect sense and will hopefully shed some light on their ratings for you.
simon picket Sorry to hear about that, I hope they rest in peace. And that's no probs mate.. cheers.
ماشاء الله تبارك الله
ترفيه بنت مين الأب مين وآلام بنت مين
إلى يعرف يخبرنا
انا مهتم بخيل السباق العربيه أحفاد عامر واحفاد تيجانى
TREVE هذه هي أسماء الأم و الأب ل
MOTIVATOR الأب هو
TREVISE الأم هي
أرجو أن أكون قد أفدتك و لو بعد مرور عام على طلبك لأنني لم أراه في حينه
مع التحية
شكرا لك على جهودك المباركه
ابو سامي
العفو
los caballos del arco 2.014 no pasaran a la historia..mediocres