That Pedal Show - Effects In The Loop or In The Front End?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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It's a question we get asked all the time: should I run my delays and reverbs in the amp's effects loop, or should they go into the front end?
Well you guessed it, there's no definitive answer, so in this video Daniel and Mick attempt to address the main points to consider when setting up your effects.
We're using a Victory V40 The Duchess amp along with TheGigRig G2 to demonstrate the same effects going into the front end and also in the loop. G2 is taking care of the signal path shenanigans as seamlessly as it always does.
As you will hear, the differences are subtle but significant.
A Strymon Big Sky and Time Line supply reverb and delay respectively, while the JHS Pedals Angry Charlie serves up the distortion.
We suspect this may be a topic we will need to revisit at some point so please post your comments and questions below and we'll do our best to address them.
Oh, and we love Taylor Swift, just for the record.
Happy watching!
![How Many Overdrive Pedals Do You Need? [Pedal Order & Gain Stacking Like A Pro] - That Pedal Show](/img/1.gif)
It has to be said.....The Pedal Show ROCKS!!! Love the depth and passion that comes across in these shows....and the knowledge shared is priceless. Thanks guys :)
"That Pedal Show" should be mandatory viewing for guitar players of all skill levels looking to get he most out of their rig.
Agreed!
+Michael Fenton Agreed!!
+Michael Fenton true dat
Michael Fenton wish i had years ago, no kiddin.
I was actually thinking this a few hours ago....I personally know a ton of guitar players out there gigging that have no idea what they’re really doing. There’s no excuse with the advent of these RUclips tutorial and demo vids. It’s as good as school.
u guys are so on point. the loop gives effects a more wet sound
Great show guys! Excellent flow of info! Cheers
delay in front of amp can be used more of a percussive modulation effect
So from what I am understanding if you have an FX loop in your amp and you use it all the time is it pushing the whole amp more than if you just used the front end, in other words is it wearing things out more?
Great Video!
Though I have read someone say that using pedals into the front can damage the tubes. Is that at all true?
What about tremolo pedals? Would it make the same difference as it did with the delays? Thanks.
mxr analog delay is better in lo0p of a dsl40. ive a bd it 100 times
For long cable runs from your effects loop to your board and back, could you run a buffer first from your effects loop's "send"? Now if you did that would you also need one coming out of the last pedal before the signal returns to the amp? This is a scenario where you might have a really long run from your amp to the front of the stage where your board is.
im having a marshall mg cfx 15 with no loop effects(in and out), and im having a looper pedal, is there a way to cheat the looper pedal for switching tone of the loop when the channel is switched from clean to crunch or od1 to od2?
SOS someone pls, am i fucked or is there a solution? i heard from a friend that a multieffect processor can to the job but i don't have the money to try that out...
the looper is tc ditto
Matko Max Pogačić record the loop with a distortion pedal. You can't add od to the loop after it's recorded though
Mon the Biff!
You could have just stopped the video at "Dave Gilmour doesn't use effects loops"...great video!
Fred Feldman Yeah thats true
Well this is random
Mainly because he runs his amps super clean and smacks a Ram's Head Muff in front of it for screaming leads. The effect loop was for people who run their amps dirty, but don't like the sound of a delay or chorus going into an overdriven amp.
Well, David Gilmour mostly played (I don’t know about now) a Hiwatt DR 103 and this one does not have an effects loop so this might be the main reason.
Smurfman256 Gilmour has used countless different pedals from two Silicon Fuzz Faces(one for clean, one for distortion) to various Muff clones in recent years. But his use of modulation, in the front, is counter-intuitive to most players that try to get tones as clear, as his usually is.
You either distort the delay and reverb or you reverb and delay the distortion. The latter seems better in my opinion. Think recording session.
typically but not always..
Hi guys, i'd love for yous to do a video on guitar sounds in the mix in comparison to guitar sounds on its own. Its an interesting and unexplored topic among the internet guitar spectrum! And you guys know your stuff!
Great idea!
Man I love you guys. You managed to explain something 100x more clearly than the other countless videos I've watched on effects loop and now I FINALLY get it! Thanks gentlemen. Sorry to hear things didn't work out with Taylor. ;)
Something I discovered about running delays into the front end of a cranked up amp is that the level of the delay repeats can be much more responsive to your dynamics. When you play softly and roll back your guitar volume, the repeats become more subtle or fade out completely. As you hit the amp harder and get more power tube overdrive, the delays come back in a lovely grainy, almost lo-fi kind of vibe. Cranking the level of the repeats yields more overdrive on the repeats since they're hitting the amp harder.
By contrast, I found that running my delay after my OD pedal and into a clean amp yields a much more controllable delay with cleaner repeats, but I hear the repeat at any setting on my guitar's volume knob due to the compression in the OD pedal smoothing out my level going into the delay.
Playing my Analog Man ARDX20 straight into my Carr Rambler cranked to 10 has made me completely rethink delay sounds. If you have an analog delay, play it into an OD pedal or a cranked up amp and play with your guitar's volume knob and your picking dynamics. You might discover something cool.
Gentlemen, your vids are simply perfect and a lot of fun to watch! I am learning a lot! Just go on like that!
Will do, make sure you're signed up to the new channel :)
14:44 when you think about how good ur sound is gonna be after watching this video
Love the jiu-jitsu shirt. I do not have a effects loop on my amplifier or a pedal that has that capability. I plug everything thru the front of my amplifier with the amplifier on a clean setting. my analog delay does not like being in a effects loop.
So with a boss katana with the xsonic airstep controller....its probably best to run my multi effects processor through the effects loop? Its been years since i played and jumping back in with all th8s stuff has been a little overwhelming.
Awesome fellas. I learnt plenty and realise I don't need to buy an amp with an effects loop. For once you've saved my thousands as opposed to the usual!
can you PLEASE actually show us how to set it up, with some pedals going into the front of the amp, and some going into the effects loop? I saw some videos, and they just ran through it too fast, and did not show the set up, they just showed how it sounds.. I have played a long time, but am new to all this pedal stuff, and how to use the loop.. many years I could only afford guitar and amp... so I am new to this stuff...can you do it real s-l-o-w? as if I WAS a beginner??Thanks..
Effects Pedals 101 -- Typical Order -- Pre Gain Effects (Tuner,
Volume, Pitch Modulation (whammy, wah, harmonizer), and Compressors), Gain (OD / DS /
Boost / EQ), and then Post Gain Modulation (Phaser, Flanger, Delay,
Reverb). The Post Gain Effects are what really shines in an effects loop
because an amplifier's pre amp is a gain stage. Besides that, its not rocket science. Guitar > Pre Gain Effects > Gain Effects > Front of the Amplifier > Send Out > Post Modulation Effects > Return.
Nathan.. but how does one actually physically set it up? Which cords go where, and can they all be on one board, or need to go on 2 different boards? I sort of understand the order..so an e.q. would go in the front part? would the eq be the last thing going in the front input? OK, how would I actually run the chords and stuff, for the effects loop? Can you please show it slowly in a video, how to actually hook up this mess of chords? Thanks...
I just gave the exact order that would order you would put them in. Id only use a single board. My current setup doesnt use an fx loop though. I run through the input of the amp. Just grab a good set of patch cables and an a nice 1spot pedal adapter and start plugging in and create sounds.
got it running?
cords. chords??
Please turn down the guitar volume, or increase your microphone/voice level. I can't enjoy your show with the imbalance. Thank you.
Good evening
Question i have a Marshall dslr40 iv just got a Mooer groove looper with drum machine do i go thro front or the back on the loop lots about overdrive or other pedals not loopers
Thank you
Eddie 😎🎸
So cool!! But how did he set up the switcher so that he can switch between running delay and reverb in front or in the loop????
Is there any plans to do an episode on Equalizers? I know I'm not getting the most out of my GE-7, cheers.
MIKE HORNER-BAGGS I use my boss pq 4's in the instrument level loops of both my amps works awesome.
MIKE HORNER-BAGGS I would also love to know more about equalizers in regards to guitars.
MIKE HORNER-BAGGS Good call, Mike. Add me to the list of the inquisitive.
MIKE HORNER-BAGGS I modded mine with a Monty Allum mod. Such a terrific mod for the pedal!!
They have an episode now.
Vibe/phase/flange? In the loop or front? Depends on the pedal?
Ok, editing this a few days later and after some experimentation with my basic-bitch FX loop, I must say the delay & reverb sounded great post gain in the loop. But the interesting thing was the flanger or chorus. In the front it sounds ok but through the loop, I turned into Brian May. Not what I expected, given that my amp is not exactly expensive.
To my ears the pedals sounded better in the front end...
Can you guys please use compression on your voices. I can never hear all the stuff you whisper and then my speakers blow out when you play guitar and speak loudly.
I love how he went from the loop first then he went into the front. As soon as he went into front I felt like an addict wanting that crispy clean beauty back.
Look forward to the show every week. Keep it up lads!
EQ pedal episode would be awesome. Amazing show guys keep it up!
Wow, y'all have come a long way! So glad I found your channel
Try a Metro Zero Loss Effects Loop. Very clean, no tweaking needed.
I know this is an old video but I hope you guys see this. I'm using a Way Huge Echo Puss in the loop of my Mesa Rectoverb, and it absolutely destroys my signal. Loss in volume and fidelity when its on. But with it in front of the amp, it behaves so wildly differently from channel to channel that it isn't an option. You wouldn't happen to know if the way huge delays are built for line level or not would you? I'm so frustrated because I love the pedal, but its useless currently.
I need an amp just to record songs with a mic on it, using the amp on Clean.
(the distorsions will come from pedals before the time-based and modulation stuff)
So, I won't need a fx loop, right?
I mean, there won't be any Gain or crunch coming from the amp in the first place and I won't use it very loud since I'm recording with a mic...
I'm so grateful for your input (excuse the pun). Picking up my guitar again after two or three decades, I've recently been overwhelmed to such a degree by technical-equipment stuff, that I couldn't even find the correct words to phrase my questions. Your explanation and demonstration has been incredibly helpful... thank you.
+Peter Marshall ah, absolutely my pleasure Peter. Thanks for watching ;)
+Peter Marshall A really basic question: Can you please define what you mean by the terms 'wet' and 'dry' ? The terms are bandied-around so much by those in 'the know'. I'm assuming that the dry-signal is taken from the pre-amp, prior to the effects-loop stage... however, I guess that the even drier signal would be taken prior to any effects being added. Sorry if this sounds like a 'numptie' question.
+Peter Marshall The 2 terms vary in meaning but for the most part, a dry signal is the signal that's direct from your guitar and your amplifier, whereas a wet signal is the sound of the delay and reverb in the background.
Nice shirt Dan! I was watching some more recent videos and thought you had some cauliflower ear, figured that you used to wrestle. Do you still train BJJ? I'm 8 years in and loving it. Oss!
Cheers LP, injuries have flowed me down but I’m still training 2/3 days a week. Got my purple belt a year ago 👍
So let me ask you can I run my 5 pedals (including my tube screamer into the effect loop,) so I get that now does that mean my wireless is simply going from my guitar the the guitar input?
The amp is a 40 watt Marshall dsl
For those that don't like the effects loop, go buy a phase 90 and stick it in front of the amp. You will change your mind immediately. It sounds like "hey everybody I just turned on my phaser and I'm going to destroy your ears."
+Jay Patterson true :)
So thinking of my pre-amp as a pedal in the chain... Where is my amps reverb? I have a Fender Hot Rod DeVille... Is the reverb before the loop or after the loop?
Front sounded more true to me.. To my ears the looped delay and reverb sounded like like there was a clear guitar FOLLOWED by a reverb ambience. Meaning i didn't hear a guitar in a hall. I heard a guitar, then a hall. Almost the same effect as having the instrument on one channel of a mixer and the effected instrument on another and you blend with faders. Not a true application but the same outcome.
Question for the community: Should you turn off your amp before unplugging and/or changing pedals?
No, you can unplug, plug back in with no problems 👍
The delay and reverb is definitely more prominent in the effects loop, but that may not necessarily be what you want
Hey guys - I'd love a video about running effects in parallel.
I mean even with a single amp, let's connect Tuner/aux out to Volume return and Volume send to 10ST return (with 10M send & return bridged) and then move the volume loop!
Inserting the volume after loop 10 might be harmful though
Call the manufacturers of your gear, they will tell you had to run what ever you have, that is what we did in the early 70's and on, I was a drummer and wanted better heads and drums and mics, the companies gave me plenty of info, they know what musicians are going through and are happy to talk, Gibson is the hardest to get some one on the phone.
Was it Creamback M in the cab?
Hi Guys! great videos! Just one thing: Please add titles like : " In the Loop", "out the Loop" , etc.
Salute from Argentina
Cracking stuff gents :-)
I have a Crate GFX 212, it doesn't have a conventional FX Loop. It has a single Stereo 1/4 Input on the front of the amp and the way you use it (according to the manual) is you buy a stereo 1/4 inch to 2 mono 1/4 inch splitter cable and plug the stereo end into the "insert" jack and the other ends to each output of the pedal(s) you are wanting in the loop. I used to think it didn't have an FX Loop but now that I know it does, I actually like this amp. I like the very basic clean it has, perfect for pedals and modulation of every sort.
Hey Dan, thanks for this video! Maybe another topic would be how to properly split your guitar signal. I'm currently wondering how to do it after the ex loop of my amp so I can have a D/W rig. That could be a topic for one of your videos, I think. Thanks again, I really enjoy all the knowledge that you both share and also the tone!
Who are these young guys?
moved my chorus back to the amps front end as the volume dips when it's on in the loop
Would love an episode about equalizers! Would love hearing the new Mesa five band pedal vs a boss! Love the videos! Keep it coming :)
Your presentation has come so far. These early videos, even though they have excellent information, are so much harder to follow than your new videos with the shadow boxes to show what effects are active and the multiple cameras, etc. Great job evolving to make the videos so much easier to follow (while I'm multitasking, LOL).
Yup I would agree. I've been deep diving into That Pedal Show to get my understanding of all things stompy an ampy up to scratch. The newer vids are def easier to follow, where's here I'm rewinding a lot - though sleep dep from last nights binge watching and playing doesn't help
pretty useful stuff. The best way I can describe it is, if you run a delay in front of the amp and your using the overdrive from the amp your basically running the delay into the overdrive. that's why delay and reverb is usually last in the chain. if it's not it will be distorted by what ever effect comes next.
.it really sucks! (overdrive from the amp...) I learned this long ago on my own.
I've never had a good experience with the FX loop. Some people do, I'm sure, but not me. I've tried it with a JCM 900, Supersonic 60, and Fender Blues Deville 410. I run a Fender Deluxe Reverb '65 RI right now and I A/B into both channels: Vibrato for cleans, and normal for dirt. I have my Saucy Box after the A/B switch and my Carbon Copy before my A/B switch. Having the delay before my OD has made a world of difference. I love it. It's clear, clean, and distinct.
I'm sure many people have had success with FX loops, but I wouldn't base an amp purchase off of it.
That's excellent, you've experimented and found a setup that works for you. Our job here is done :)
Throwing down wisdom 8 years ago. I've watched a Ton Of your awesome content and once again this one gave me ideas. Gonna put my phaze 90 in front of my amp
Taylor keeps phoning and bothering me too!
Yeah, she's a bit needy
Okay now I'm Pissed! She told me she quit calling you two!
A big hug from Rio de Janeiro for you!!!!
Great show as always gents.
After some experimenting I've had a change of heart about effects loops. Sorry for the book...
I had an EQ I was running in front of the amp at unity gain and it was just not giving me what I needed from the EQ. So I switched some things around and put it as the first pedal in the effects loops in front of a chorus, a multi-effects (chorus/flanger/rotary etc...) and a one knob roll (clean) boost for solos last in the loop chain. Since the EQ is now in loop as an "always on" pedal it's also functioning as a buffer for the pedals that follow.
Going in the front I have an octave pedal (which is a buffered BOSS OC-2), my 1972 King Vox Wah, a compressor that's always on, then the phaser and flanger, a clean boost (for conditioning single coil pickups) then into an outboard overdrive then into the amp. I inserted a stand-alone buffer at the end of the line in (front-end) chain to replace the always on EQ I just put into the loop. With that, and the always on compressor, except for the BOSS OC-2 and the wah pedal my inline pedals are fully in a buffer sandwiched.
It's like there was a cold wet blanket on that amp and putting the EQ as an always on pedal in the effects loop is like taking that blanket off.
Sure David Gilmour ran everything into the front but none of us is David Gilmour and he probably didn't have effects loops at his disposal early on.
Thanks again for another great show.
Live, and loud... I always put my order as....
Amp: Laney LC50ii
Front: Reverb, chorus
Parallel loop: Delay, Boss LS2 looping 2 phasers (effects level about 70%)
It adds an amazing honk to my Laney and the delay into the phaser means the phaser is kept moving rather than repeating a moment of the phaser. I blend the phaser in as loud it can be too dominant.
Gains and overdrives in front of amp delays and reverbs effects loop. Generally. Because times I love my reverb front end. On Surf Guitar front of amp every time!
Welp, took my delay out of the loop and if just like to personally thank you guys for making my delay sound incredible. Thanks a bunch
What kind of an effect would this have if I am running my guitar through a DI box and passing the signal through the box to both my preamp for recording but also my amp so I cam mic it and record both the direct line and miced amp?
Gents, thnx for this video. Have boogie mkiv using simple modulation and OD pedals in front, using EH holy grail reverb and EH Nano memory toy delay in the fx loop. When the delay pedal is activated, the signal is practically boosted. It doesnt seem normal and i prefer to not have that, but rather rely on the amp to do the work of providing volume. What do you guys think is solution to this?
Okay, so effects in the loop sound more HD, and in the front more SD.
Reverb in the loop has all of its shimmering glory, whilst in the front it gets choked up.
Delay in the loop will repeat with all of your drive vs trailing off cleaner and cleaner as its not pushing the valves as hard as the original signal.
That's the beauty of tone. You can do almost anything you want.
thanks guys, this makes it clear that given a choice, it would absolutely be the more detailed, rich and dimensioney presentation of the FX send/return. It was pretty obvious!
On some amps delay in the front is just way to much uncontrollable, delay I find sounds better in the fx loop
20:22 Andy Timmons, discussion over.
I use a lot of front end distortion in both my amps, but I prefer using all my effects in front of them. That includes modulation and delays. I have a multi-channel Mesa/Boogie MarkIV and a single channel Marshall JCM 800.
hi guys i wonder if you can help me? i have a fender 60w supersonic head and was thinking of using the effects loop.Here's my effects. EH B9,EH phaser,CmatMods(tube screamer),MXR noise gate,polytuner2 and Boss wahwah. Hoping to add an Reverb and Compressor at some point.What should i use in effects loop and in what order? thank you.
Thanks for the thorough talk and examples guys! Answered some questions I had, and some I didn't know I had until you answered them :)
what is a MODULATION pedal?? would that be a phaser, flanger, chorus, harmonist etc.?? can you explain what exactly the modulation pedals are?? where do they go, through the front or the loop? what about compressors or a boost pedal? wah pedal?
Great video. I personally like the more organic sounds by going into the front. I also like old school simple amps, they dont have fx loops. You showed the tonal differences!
What fx switcher would you recommend that can work with an amps fx loop? Other than the Gigrig obviously? :) It's a little out of my price range. I can't find too many that allow you to have some pedals before the preamp and some after.
+Brian Bowersox You can actually do this with almost any pedal switcher. How you do it depends on the exact specs of the switcher. On a pedal switcher that doesn't have a dedicated send/return capability intended to work with an amp's effects loop, you can still do it but you will need to give up one of the pedal loops on the switcher. As the vid mentioned, think of the amp's preamp as one of your effects. it has an input (the main input for the amp) and an output (the amp's effects send).Guitar plugs into the switcher, distortion pedal A in loop 1, distortion pedal B in loop 2, Send for loop 3 goes to the standard input of the amp, amp effects send connects back to the Return for loop 3, delay pedal in loop 4, reverb pedal in loop 5, final output from the switcher connects to the amp's effects return (three cables needed between the switcher and the amp).You now have two switcher loops in front of the amp input and two switcher loops in the amp's effects loop, but you gave up one switcher loop because that loop connects to the amp's preamp (switcher loop 3 Send connects to the front of the preamp, switcher loop 3 Return brings the sound back to the switcher from the preamp by using the amp's effects send). The final output from the switcher completes the setup by bringing the sound back from the switcher to the amp's effects return. The more loops the switcher has, the more flexible this method works because you have more options for how many pedal loops you can have before or after the amp's preamp.
Can you put a digital delay in the loop and others,,,like a tube screamer or overdrive outside of the loop ? Does this even make sense? PS,,,,luv you guy's!!!! I have learned so much !!!! TY so much !!!! 😃
Love your videos, guys, but what about us AC15 guys with no effects loop? :( I know I could use pedals, but that "Voxy" gain is no nice …
Excellent video but please level the audio, it's hard to hear your explanations
Wouldn’t you make a fortune if you built an external effects loop for amps without a loop. The Bad Cat Attenuator seems to be the only external box to solve this problem for time based effects but it’s way to big and takes too long to set up. Also, it can’t be used without the Attenuator and they break down regularly. Please can you offer something to help me sort this problem. Thank you.
well if your amp doesnt have a effects loop, you dont have much of a choice!
If it isn't clean your delay and reverb will sound like shit.
There are degrees between clean and dirty, that's what we're trying to show, and effects into the front of a driven amp can sound fantastic, it just depends how driven the amp is
+Pieter De Bruyne or like shoegaze, depends on how square minded you are
+Pieter De Bruyne Iemand heeft de video niet gekeken...
arnyarny77 I have a Suhr sl67 with no loop, but when I add my fryette power station to the equation I have a slaved amp setup
The fryette power station has a loop that is switchable from instrument level -10 to line level +4 so now I can insert my time based effects in the loop after the Suhr sl67's output transformer. An amp such as a Suhr sl67 gets its tone from cranking power tubes which distorts the power tubes, so now the effects are in a cleaner environment again
The chain goes
Suhr sl67 > speaker cable > fryette power station load box > effects > fryette power station power tube section > speaker cable > speaker box
Should I put all pedals in chain loop (gain, wha-wha & tuner) of my Mesa Boogie Recto-verb or just Delay & Chorus?
putting my whole chain through the loop has made everything finally sound right for me. it's also been really helpful in letting me keep a noisy cut-throat distorted tone at suburban decibel levels.
I have been watching you guys for like two years now and I’m really digging all the videos. There’s a lot of genuine fun had between you guys and this series is a genuine masterclass for playing rock’n roll with an electric guitar.
Gracie shirt. Love it!
OSS!
You don't need to run delay that far under fx loop. Only reason why your running so much cable is because your huge pedal board. Take your delay pedal , put iton top your amp head and plug into your loop with small cables
Awesome show guys. So glad I found you on here. Been binge watching, and have already learned a lot. Cheers
Where would you put a noise gate in this chain? Before the first OD pedal? First inline after the guitar? First inline out of preamp to the loop?
Fender years ago had no effect loop everything through the front also vox multi effect loop is another whole review
For me pretty much everything goes into the front of the amp. The loop seems to make effects sound laid "on top of" the sound instead of being "part of" the sound if that makes sense. A matter of personal taste though.
Bumblefritz I like putting an eq in the loop to sorta fix my vintage 30s ;)
I have an 18 watter with no loop and delay just doesn't work if I turn the amp up. I have to lower the delay level so much and it still is too much
Fire your sound editor.
We have to have our vol
dimed to hear you speak,
then the guitars blow out
our speakers.
Then theres the Soldano SLO 100 FX loop that the rapes pedals.
If the effects loop is tone sucking couldn’t you just put a buffer in the signal chain?
On a Marshall u have main distortion going on in power tube section Is it worth building a loop.?
Mmh to me drive at the front and the others in the loop have much better sound..quality..
Ok but where do you guys usually put your chorus pedal?? Loop or front and where ?
guys, can you send one signal to the input, another to fx return(without using send out)?
If i put phase in front of the amp should it before or after OD?