Why does God allow suffering? Peter Singer vs Andy Bannister
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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Controversial moral philosopher Peter Singer debates Christian theologian Andy Bannister on ‘why God allow suffering?’
In this excerpt they debate whether a loving God would allow the level of suffering that exists in the world.
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What a way to not answer the question that was actually asked. Top-notch apologetics at work👏
I read an article the other day about a 2 yr old little girl wandering off and being eaten alive after falling into a gator pit, what loving God seen this happen with the power to stop it and chose to not stop it?
What kind of parents let their 2 year old girl wander off in a clearly dangerous setting!
What... does the alligator get no love?
@@tsrs6983 The way of the Blame?
@@chargersina God has given us capabilities, such as responsibility, therefore it's not blaming, but rather it's accountability.
@@tsrs6983 Thanks for the reply. He has not given this to all of us. Just look around, mental capabilities are lacking in many people yet they are given the same responsibilities. How can you you have accountability if you are born with huge mental deficiencies?
Sooo he basically had nothing to say when the problem of suffering is brought forth...
Andy said bunch of nothing and did not answer a question. Awesome.
Its the same way Frank Turek avoids questions (dodge) aboit evil/suffering. Very thin , weak desperation argument
Didn't really answer Singer's question, if he did, I don't understand what he meant.
No theologian has been able to reconcile the fact of unnecessary suffering and a good god and non ever will all they do is just play language games
Suffering is important to religion. Some religions are attempts to end it, others are a part of it to test ones resolve. Whatever you claim is a good god is childish. If something doesn't fit your picture frame it must be useless, unless you have one that fits it.
@James Whiting The suffering of innocent children and animals, or worse, the devout believer.
You would think that as an outsider, but to someone who believes, suffering is more of a test of resolve. Seeing others and yourself suffer has been a theme in the Bible from Old to New. It is more important than some rite or ceremony.
@poopmannelson1 Ah I see, well the next time I'm at great ormond street hospitall i'll make sure to let the little kids know that they're suffering from cancer because of the choices they made.
@@unknown9106 Or you'll remind them and their parents that even in their suffering and fear, Christian organizations like St. Jude's hospital will never turn them away regardless of their faith or financial situation. That compassionate caring doctors and staff will treat them with love and dignity.
Has Andy actually answered the problem?
Not in this clip. I would have to watch the full debate to make a better assessment of his arguments., but the indications in this clip are not good.
Not this again: How big of a non-answer can you give!? This is so irritating that no-one is able to provide the world with an answer to one of the most crucial questions of theology - and god would have this answer readily available so it should not be needed to be discovered but rather answered directly by god.
We're psychological beings evolving, using physical bodies. Suffering plays a part in that evolutionary forge that's the school of life. I like this quote from Christian Morgenstern. "All secrets lie before us in perfect openness. Only we gradate ourselves against them, from stone to seer. There are no mysteries as such, only uninitiated of all degrees.’ Disraeli said this is no time to cease evolving, halfway between apes and angels.
I've had a difficult time also reconciling my past beliefs in Christianity and the suffering and injustice in the world, now I'm lost, because there isn't a satisfying answer
There really isn't a good answer to this. There are reasonable reasons for there to be SOME suffering, but not excessively so.
Read The Book of Job translated by Stephen Mitchell. It clarifies the answer, because the original Book of Job did give an answer; but it's been obscured by bad translation. His interpretation has also since been supported by the oral-tradition version of Job that existed in Aramaic in the time of Jesus (which translates the end of the book in a similar way as Stephen).
You aren’t lost. Just ditch the mythology and enjoy life while you have and don’t be a dick.
@@Yamikaiba123 OK, what's the great answer that this translation gives us? Just a quick summary please.
@@bdave2049 There's a great summary in the translator's forward.
But the gist of it is that the universe was born, not created. Hence, the standards that we apply to it become mad if we view it (and the entire kingdom of natural phenomena and life) from the same lens with which we orient our interactions in the anthropocentric context of human society.
Deriving laws abstracted from that lens and context, and using them to calculate utilitarian actions is also tyrannical, in its own peculiar way, as is Job's impulse to be a just dictator were he to replace God (which is ridiculed in the whirlwind's speech near the end, and accused as Atrocity under the guise of Justice).
The origin of evil and suffering is quite simple: God didn't get to read Marx and therefore couldn't figure out what was coming.
Peter Singer knows better.
Where did Peter Singer mention Marx in the video?
@@Aaron-wy9nb Nowhere. But his conceptual franework is Marxist all the the way through. With your kind permission, I allowed myself to mention it.
@@tonibat59 I don't think he's much of a Marxist. He is mainly known for his strict adherence to utilitarianism. I don't listen to him too often and I haven't read all of his works, but I never caught a whiff of dialectical materialism in his work.
@@Aaron-wy9nb Maybe your right. I just got the impression...
Christian didn’t answer one question. Deflection and buzz words.
"Why does God allow suffering" is IMO similar to "why does air allow water", it makes no sense to even frame questions this way, it's like you are seeking for your own head with your head. You don't understand that your own awareness is the only godly thing in existence. Thou art that.
Air isn’t an all powerful being, so asking why it allows something is indeed strange. God is an all powerful being and yet continues to let the entire world suffer. Why does he do that?
Jesus died for our Sins. Except he didn’t actually stay dead. So what exactly did he sacrifice, his weekend?
Jesus sacrificed his weekend for our Sins! lol
samuel4131
He suffered & died to pay a debt brought on by our actions. We have no way of knowing what that was like. If you have ever seen someone truly suffering, you would understand how little you know of what they go through.
Your response is flippant to a mountain of pain. Think about it, your share of that pain is coming. It will mean something to you then.
@@mackdmara don't be an ignorant dick. learn something actually fact based.
@@47and28 don't name call
shut up
Lmao
Hypocrisy and lying is almost synonymous with Christianity at this point.
and cause and effect
singer has so much in comman with my ex even the same name but my ex was handicapped would peter want to kill peter
what is it with people called peter wanting to kill people?
This program dances around the answer but it is never given. The same may be asked why we have so many doctors in this world yet there are so many sick folk. Did we ever ask God for help? The suffering we have are really all our own doing, weather by bad choices we get into trouble and when we have the problems we do not ask for help to get back out. We are free spirits and want the freedom to make our own choices which will come with consequences. Much like asking God why He allows millions of people to die of smoke related diseases while the smokers knew about the compromise to their health. GOD gave them the freedom to smoke, unfortunately with that comes the freedom to bear the consequences. That is why ther us pain and suffering in this world.
What about natural disasters? Humans didn't cause those.
Is there suffering in heaven?
Jesus who is God, SUFFERED on the cross on our behalf so that we may live again.
Weren't people alive before he died? What do you mean?
Can you prove thw existence of GOD? what does he look like?
god is not a supreme being it is life and evolution
Good only exist in contrast to evil. If it was good all the time, it wouldn't be good, it would be normal.
And what’s wrong with normal?
If that was true, Heaven would be impossible, and God, who is good all the time, would be 'normal'.
Normal is meaningless. Its the reason you don't give thinks for the air you breathe even though you would die without it. No one cares about what is normal, same as people cherish strife for what they deem otherwise, even though it would mean nothing once it also becomes normal.
@@StarStrider99 I don't understand your logic, you basically proved my point. Are you denying the existence of evil?
Nah, it good would still be good. One doesn't have to cancel out the other or live in perpetuity with the other. They stand alone.
Nice commentary. To give my cent on this argument as a Christian is that God wants His children to be responsible and wise. I mean look at the animals before there is earthquake or a tsunami, they go crazy. Birds migrate to escape and animals goes for higher ground to survive the tsunami. If we are wise and responsible, we will make preparations to deal with these disasters.
Yes, He is the God of love but He loves us to the point that He doesn't shelter us from suffering. After all, suffering is where we learn and grow as a human being. Try sheltering your kids from all suffering and see how fast they turn into demons. Some of you may argue that can the growth of others justify one's death? Dare I say yes. Death of the physical body is not the end. I mean Christianity started with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God's own Son! His death and resurrection saved us from certain moral and spiritual doom. How about the death of millions under Hitler or under Communist Regimes? Tragedies indeed but it goes to show the danger of such regimes. Wise ones would avoid and prevent them but fools would welcome them.
Su Nam....
So your story is that god WANTS us to learn by suffering yet he put A&E in the Garden of Eden - why?
Su Nam (Kevin) Jang
What about Cancer in children? 100,000 children die from Cancer EVERY YEAR on average!
I can almost understand why God would allow an adult to exercise their Freewill by raping a young girl. But when it comes to Cancer it happens naturally without human agency! Why would an All Powerful God sit back & watch children die from Cancer?
Good to hear your thoughts Kevin, here is a question for you, could God have created this planet without us having to suffer such terrible events as earthquakes? I'm assuming your answer would be "yes, of course he could, he can do anything he wishes". So if that's the case, why would God create a planet for mankind that was susceptible to earthquakes and tsunami's? To take a fairly recent example, the 2001 Boxing day earthquake/tsunami killed about a quarter of a million people, how can you explain that from a loving Gods perspective, killing innocent babies and small children, not to mention pregnant mothers, it was horrific.
From my atheist perspective, I can explain it, it has nothing to do with a supernatural overlord, it has everything to do with us living on a planet that was not designed for us, we are the product of evolution, the planet doesn't care about us, it's up to us as social creatures to make life as good as we can while we're here. We can fully explain earthquakes in the 21st century, and they are totally natural. The problem of suffering will always be a difficult issue for Christianity to answer I think. Andy Bannister gave no real solution in this 5 minute clip, or if he did, I missed it.
@@claudiaquat Well, Adam and Eve had to dress the garden and keep it. He had to tend to the garden. Perhaps, I should term it better: responsibility. Even in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve had responsibilities to fulfill and that is to tend to the garden as a gardener would. Not only that, they were strictly commanded to not eat of the fruit of the tree of the KGE. In short, the were not made to do whatever they wanted but to be wise and responsible.
I'm not really versed in Bible so I can be wrong. I don't think the garden of Eden is free of suffering. Even without the fall, there will be suffering. Adam would pass away and his family would grieve over him. Ain't that suffering?
Su Nam (Kevin) Jang
Tending a beautiful garden doesn't sound so bad to me. Certainly the ground wasn't cursed at that point. And death didn't come into the world until the fall of A&E. But that's OK I'm done.
Christ....? Who??? ...
Theodiotics