My team calls it lava. On our last project, we had a funny script and an only slightly overscoped project. We had a lot of fun developing it, but whenever we would work on the game together, we'd focus on getting the lava to look nice with the old limited engine we were using. While we were working on it, 60% of the team got bored and stopped while we put all out focus into one minor detail. We wanted to get the graphics so much more right than usual that we put all our focus on that from the beginning and we lost sight of our priorities. Now whenever we start focusing a bit too much on something that's not a priority, we warn each other that we're getting too close to the lava. Don't touch the lava.
This is caused by unclear goals... Whenever I'm unclear on what I need to accomplish, I always end up tweaking small unimportant variables and not getting anywhere. Keep at it!
This is absolutely not the point of his video, he's actually saying the inverse. He tweaked values until the core mechanic was perfect, this is actually a good thing and not a wait of time The point of his video was to say that adding nice graphics at the beginning of a project is a bad idea because it will cover the core mechanic flaws This wouls be also reffered as the 4F method "Fail fast, follow the fun". your game has to be fun before looking good Hope I helped in some way x)
GameMaker's ToolKit made a video about exactly this. It's focused around Nintendo and how they try to come up with "a new way" to play for each of their games. It's titled "Nintendo - Putting Play First"
He even mentioned that the reason for Ocarina Of Time's time travel plot is that the lead gameplay designer wanted you to play as both child and adult Link. The whole story was created after the mechanics
I think there’s an important point that was missed during the video. How the mechanic feels. In the game idea you spoke about, the magnet-based endless runner, you have to decide how you want the mechanic to feel to the player when the use it. Here are two examples: you could make it fast paced (where you need to quickly switch between the magnets) or slow and methodical. Choosing how the mechanic should feel will guide the implementation of that mechanic, as well as the theme and art of the game. If you chose the second option, of the mechanic feeling slow and methodical, your game might become a strategy game where you need to plan your movements in advance, and because you’re moving slowly it tells you how the art of your character should be (maybe the character is a large, iron ingot, instead of a quick metallic shard). TL;DR design how your mechanic should feel for the player, when you build it. It will guide most of your game’s features.
Feel is 90% of the game. The whole reason why we play games is because of the sensations that they make us experience. Start with making something that feels good to do, then make a game out of it
Super true. Prototyping the mechanic is key to fine tuning a great gaming experience. A few projects I added the mechanic after... totally went to pot. This is important.
I used to think that art was necessary before mechanics, but as of recently I feel like mechanics are more important. I think making your assets move the way you want them to or making the game world interact with the player the way you want to is important. and then you can build your art and sound around it.
It's tricky because sometimes theme can have an impact on the way the player interprets the mechanics and so there are sometimes reasons to have some theme present for mechanical testing. I think it might be better if rather than stripping away all theme we instead only incorporate the defining features of the theme, rather than full production-quality material. Colours, shapes, general visual concepts. It's specifically the quality of the visual material that seems to cover up mechanical issues, not the overall presence of theme.
I kind of feel the opposite now, I just got into modelling and noticed my prototypes are alot funner. Its hard to make a game fun when its just cubes and junk, in this day and age our minds are trained to need an art style (yes cubes can be an artstyle but face it you can't pull it off, forget it). I recommend creating the core gameplay without wasting time messing with exact values, then getting art in asap after that. I'm new to this approach but it is soo much better, stops that thinking that most of us have about "oh itl be better with art" well no it wont be, the art is there, its not an art problem its a design problem. I think a lot of us programmers like to blame artists for gameplay being subpar, and in fact at times we can be right, art is important more so depending on the art style.
100% agree. Mechanics are what I always start with. But, maybe, i do it that way because my art sucks! :) Anyway: - I've made tons of prototypes during decades - I've finished only three of them: two for ZX Spectrum in the middle-late 80's and another one for PC (with GameMaker) in 2008. - I haven't published any game So, I don't know if thats the better way! lol
I could see how this would be a good approach even if you do work on world/art/music/narrative design beforehand and then just wait to tie them in with the gameplay mechanics in practice until the mechanics are working really well on their own.
Your entire video is simply an argument for top down vs. bottom up design methodology. If you have an idea of what you want to create that is based on a strong narrative component, then that will define your mechanics and ultimately your aesthetics. For example, if you want to create a Gothic horror game, then you will require mechanics that define, werewolves, vampires, silver bullets, etc...That is top down. If you've got an idea based on the pillar of exploration, then you can define your mechanics, running, jumping, wall jumping, etc....and then wrap any narrative or theme you'd like around those ideas. That's bottom up. Top down leads to a strong narrative game with mechanics built to support the theme. Bottom up leads to a strong player experience and supporting mechanics but the narrative tends to suffer or feels like it's an afterthought. If you want to build a game in the Star Wars universe it means you will require rebels and empire, blasters and light sabers. Your players will feel immersed in the world you've created comforted by the strong narrative. If you build an awesome jumping game that feels wonderful to play and then make the main character a stormtrooper searching for droids in an endless runner, it's going to feel like the narrative has been slapped on top.
Being an artist, i cant afford to pay for a bunch of little prototypes from programmers, so thinking of the art first and how I in vision the game would play is all i got.
From an artist to another. I understand your pain. If you're using engines like Unreal or Unity, there are some plug ins, ready-codes and visual script blueprints (unreal)/ playmaker (unity) that makes our lives easier to prototype. And we can't escape from it. Sooner or later, we have to learn how to program, the basic level at least.
Ha! I LOVE this video! It reminds when I was learning UDK basics and I did something I called "my savage little cubes". I tested AI and (primitive) weapons in a horrendous blue chess pattern AND with crazy cubes. I was so ashamed of that test I never showed to anyone.
This is happening to me. I've come up with the mechanic first but I wanted to use it for a theme I feel that isn't explored much. While testing out the mechanic it makes more sense if I plug into a different theme. I can force fit into the original theme but it's forcing it while with the other theme it plugs in very smoothly. Hesitantly I think I need to abandon the original theme which is such a shame. For me it appears mechanics win over theme because when push comes to shove I side with mechanics.
Obesity Bee There will always BEE more experiences to make 😅 Who knows, maybe the original theme will evolve over time as you work on other things. It could even end up being better for it
This is exactly the problem with modern AAA games: they start with the graphics, the story, whatever... The result is that the game feels weird but it's hard to pinpoint exactly what is wrong with it
My team calls it lava. On our last project, we had a funny script and an only slightly overscoped project. We had a lot of fun developing it, but whenever we would work on the game together, we'd focus on getting the lava to look nice with the old limited engine we were using. While we were working on it, 60% of the team got bored and stopped while we put all out focus into one minor detail. We wanted to get the graphics so much more right than usual that we put all our focus on that from the beginning and we lost sight of our priorities. Now whenever we start focusing a bit too much on something that's not a priority, we warn each other that we're getting too close to the lava. Don't touch the lava.
This is caused by unclear goals... Whenever I'm unclear on what I need to accomplish, I always end up tweaking small unimportant variables and not getting anywhere. Keep at it!
Yeah I find it's much funner and productive to have a clear idea of what you want to accomplish; otherwise it becomes a chore sometimes.
This is absolutely not the point of his video, he's actually saying the inverse.
He tweaked values until the core mechanic was perfect, this is actually a good thing and not a wait of time
The point of his video was to say that adding nice graphics at the beginning of a project is a bad idea because it will cover the core mechanic flaws
This wouls be also reffered as the 4F method "Fail fast, follow the fun". your game has to be fun before looking good
Hope I helped in some way x)
My 3 months old daugther really liked this video and tried to talk to you all the time. haha
guess she's got a crush for Tim :)
GameMaker's ToolKit made a video about exactly this. It's focused around Nintendo and how they try to come up with "a new way" to play for each of their games. It's titled "Nintendo - Putting Play First"
He even mentioned that the reason for Ocarina Of Time's time travel plot is that the lead gameplay designer wanted you to play as both child and adult Link. The whole story was created after the mechanics
I get your point. It's like, the car has to run right before it looks good.
I think there’s an important point that was missed during the video. How the mechanic feels.
In the game idea you spoke about, the magnet-based endless runner, you have to decide how you want the mechanic to feel to the player when the use it. Here are two examples: you could make it fast paced (where you need to quickly switch between the magnets) or slow and methodical.
Choosing how the mechanic should feel will guide the implementation of that mechanic, as well as the theme and art of the game. If you chose the second option, of the mechanic feeling slow and methodical, your game might become a strategy game where you need to plan your movements in advance, and because you’re moving slowly it tells you how the art of your character should be (maybe the character is a large, iron ingot, instead of a quick metallic shard).
TL;DR design how your mechanic should feel for the player, when you build it. It will guide most of your game’s features.
Feel is 90% of the game. The whole reason why we play games is because of the sensations that they make us experience. Start with making something that feels good to do, then make a game out of it
This comment is pure gold. Thank you 🙏
Super true. Prototyping the mechanic is key to fine tuning a great gaming experience. A few projects I added the mechanic after... totally went to pot. This is important.
I used to think that art was necessary before mechanics, but as of recently I feel like mechanics are more important. I think making your assets move the way you want them to or making the game world interact with the player the way you want to is important. and then you can build your art and sound around it.
This is really good advice and a good point. And i think, YES, usually this applies to bigger games.
It's tricky because sometimes theme can have an impact on the way the player interprets the mechanics and so there are sometimes reasons to have some theme present for mechanical testing. I think it might be better if rather than stripping away all theme we instead only incorporate the defining features of the theme, rather than full production-quality material. Colours, shapes, general visual concepts. It's specifically the quality of the visual material that seems to cover up mechanical issues, not the overall presence of theme.
I kind of feel the opposite now, I just got into modelling and noticed my prototypes are alot funner. Its hard to make a game fun when its just cubes and junk, in this day and age our minds are trained to need an art style (yes cubes can be an artstyle but face it you can't pull it off, forget it). I recommend creating the core gameplay without wasting time messing with exact values, then getting art in asap after that. I'm new to this approach but it is soo much better, stops that thinking that most of us have about "oh itl be better with art" well no it wont be, the art is there, its not an art problem its a design problem. I think a lot of us programmers like to blame artists for gameplay being subpar, and in fact at times we can be right, art is important more so depending on the art style.
Well its not really the opposite I guess there is a fine ratio we need to meet between code and art throughout a project and not become too lopsided
i agree with you, i cant prototype with out the game art in general, or the caharacter sprite, etc,
100% agree.
Mechanics are what I always start with. But, maybe, i do it that way because my art sucks! :)
Anyway:
- I've made tons of prototypes during decades
- I've finished only three of them: two for ZX Spectrum in the middle-late 80's and another one for PC (with GameMaker) in 2008.
- I haven't published any game
So, I don't know if thats the better way! lol
Could you make a video showing us some of your prototypes? Maybe a compilation of sorts. Keep up the great videos!
I could see how this would be a good approach even if you do work on world/art/music/narrative design beforehand and then just wait to tie them in with the gameplay mechanics in practice until the mechanics are working really well on their own.
Your entire video is simply an argument for top down vs. bottom up design methodology. If you have an idea of what you want to create that is based on a strong narrative component, then that will define your mechanics and ultimately your aesthetics. For example, if you want to create a Gothic horror game, then you will require mechanics that define, werewolves, vampires, silver bullets, etc...That is top down.
If you've got an idea based on the pillar of exploration, then you can define your mechanics, running, jumping, wall jumping, etc....and then wrap any narrative or theme you'd like around those ideas. That's bottom up.
Top down leads to a strong narrative game with mechanics built to support the theme.
Bottom up leads to a strong player experience and supporting mechanics but the narrative tends to suffer or feels like it's an afterthought.
If you want to build a game in the Star Wars universe it means you will require rebels and empire, blasters and light sabers. Your players will feel immersed in the world you've created comforted by the strong narrative. If you build an awesome jumping game that feels wonderful to play and then make the main character a stormtrooper searching for droids in an endless runner, it's going to feel like the narrative has been slapped on top.
awesome!
The best ideas I ever have blend mechanics with narrative naturally, but the mechanic comes first always
Being an artist, i cant afford to pay for a bunch of little prototypes from programmers, so thinking of the art first and how I in vision the game would play is all i got.
From an artist to another. I understand your pain. If you're using engines like Unreal or Unity, there are some plug ins, ready-codes and visual script blueprints (unreal)/ playmaker (unity) that makes our lives easier to prototype. And we can't escape from it. Sooner or later, we have to learn how to program, the basic level at least.
Try Construct 2 (what Tim uses). I've used Unity a lot but only ever actually finished games in Construct 2 and GameMaker due to the constraints.
Your advice is sensationally useful! Thaks a lot!
Ha! I LOVE this video! It reminds when I was learning UDK basics and I did something I called "my savage little cubes". I tested AI and (primitive) weapons in a horrendous blue chess pattern AND with crazy cubes. I was so ashamed of that test I never showed to anyone.
Can you explain more about what is Game Mechanics?
Hey Tim! I have a question.
Should you also strip away the juice in order to better assess your core mechanic? Thanks!
ac
@@marcosbr6167 ????????????????????????????????
thanks for the wisdom!
Hiding shitty gameplay under great art and music is exactly what a lot of AAA games have been doing.
Please, make a video on ways to monetize a game.
With love,
Your New Fan
This is happening to me. I've come up with the mechanic first but I wanted to use it for a theme I feel that isn't explored much. While testing out the mechanic it makes more sense if I plug into a different theme. I can force fit into the original theme but it's forcing it while with the other theme it plugs in very smoothly. Hesitantly I think I need to abandon the original theme which is such a shame. For me it appears mechanics win over theme because when push comes to shove I side with mechanics.
Obesity Bee There will always BEE more experiences to make 😅
Who knows, maybe the original theme will evolve over time as you work on other things. It could even end up being better for it
Tony Soprano?
Me too
This is exactly the problem with modern AAA games: they start with the graphics, the story, whatever... The result is that the game feels weird but it's hard to pinpoint exactly what is wrong with it
Because they favor animation > control so it feels like steering the character through thick mud.
First.
too low sound bro :(