I believe both the M1903 Springfield and the M1917 were absolutely excellent World War I infantry weapons and, of course, both fired the .30-06 cartridge. However, I’d really like your guys to produce a shot video where you compare and contrast these two - top-level similar, but unique designs - weapons. Thanks.
@@RollingRigTraction agreed OP is actually more correct seeing as we ripped the entire design off the brits. It’s not American nor is it an Enfield. It’s a Pattern 14 rifle based off of the Mauser design with slight similarities to an Enfield...
The P.13 was unreal as far as accuracy + ALSO the cartridge was as accurate as a .300 mag at 1000 yard's. So "hot" it melted the bbl's (look it up) they were all sniper rifle's. They just switched it back to .303 so they didn't have to change the caliber. Identical to the Pattern 14 other than Caliber. I read the British wouldn't adopt it in SMLE name, yes the action was almost Identical to the M.98 mauser ( the most accurate bolt action to ever be designed)👍😉✳
My most favourable action and rifle. I own two m17’s, Canadian issue, five p14’s, and also custom rifles built on this action, 303 Br., 30/06, 300 win mag. 375 H&H, 270 win, 30/338 and 308 win, HB. Greatest rifle ever made in my mind. Thanks for the great video.
I love my Winchester Model of 1917...I bought it in 1968 for $45.....I was only 15 at the time, got my dad to do the purchase....I still have love Her...
One of the finest rifles ever made.... for a young man that is. I owned a couple. One original in '06 and the other customed into a belted magnum with a nice stock. Found the custom on a used gun rack and paid $150 for it... never mind what year that was sonnie boy. The '17 Enfield shoots as quick as an automatic with just a little practice. Downside is the original weighed a ton... twice the weight of my newer hunting rifles. Second only to a Garand as battle rifles go... fine big chunk of pointy stick on one end and caveman club on the other... you can also shoot things with it.
I have a 1917, eddystone mfg, all matching still blued, 9/17 barrel. Lovely shooter. Brownells owes the 1917, Mauser, Springfield, etc a lot, back when brownells was called “the gunsmiths mart” these were being sold by the dcm for cheap, and many a sporter some nice and some not nice were made out of these.
@@squidy4082 much longer distance between sights [sight picture] and it is a peep sight and not a v notch.....and the barrel is 2 inches long I believe...
Yeah, it’s not proved what gun he used during his feets. He wouldn’t even say himself. All he said was he didn’t like the sights on the m1917. Nobody’s knows the truth
@E No windage-adjustable rear sight. Means you can't shoot Camp Perry matches with it. Plus it wasn't invented by the Ordnance Corps or the Federal Armories. That it's a better rifle for actual field shooting, albeit a bit heavier and longer, wasn't the focus.
I had 2 of these rifles. One disappeared the other I unfortunately gave the bolt to a friend who said they could have someone look at to fix. Never got it back but still had the rifle which I stupidly sold to a gun dealer back in 2014 for 100 dollars when I was moving and downsizing what I had. Wish I still had both guns. They were pretty cool. My sister and her friend actually stole them from a bar in New York and gave them both to me. I was about 16 at the time. Very heavy guns but very cool. You can tell how well they were made and machined
The Winchester P14 parts were not always interchangeable with those rifles from the other two US Sources. Did they fix that with the M1917? You might have noted the M1917 can hold 7 rounds of .30-06 as opposed to 5 rounds of .303 in the P14, rimless advantage. Geoff Who remembers an Old Ohio Farmer, who kept one into the 1960s, and some folks claim it's the best Bolt Action Battle Rifle EVER!
He said the rear sight adjusted out to 1,600 meters. I am not an expert but I think sights were set up for yards in those days. I don't think we went to meters until we joined NATO. If I am mistaken please let me know.
A number of years ago I purchased a very well preserved Remington made P14 chambered for .303. I'm glad you made mention of the rear sight and concur it's above average in robustness and quality. I've never had a problem with either loading or ejection regard the rifle to be very accurate. The only negative is that it's a little heavy when compared to modern weapons although probably about average for bolt action combat rifles from that period. Some might consider it pretty.
As a guy that owns a Winchester and a son with an Eddystome, I do have some insight on the safety. Both rifles are sporterized. The Eddystone is 264 Winchester Magnum done in 1959. Mine is a 300 Winchester Magnum with rechambering of original barrel in 1995. If a person is excited or rushed while taking the safety off it can be a problem. If the safety is NOT flipped all the way forward and the trigger is pulled, it will NOT fire, BUT flipping the rest of the way forward WILL fire the chambered round. I have done it with both rifles. I am curious if it is limited to the 2 rifles we have or if others have done it as well. With an unloaded rifle flip the safety about halfway, pull the trigger, then without touching the trigger see if flipping the safety forward will release the firing pin. Both rifles are tack drivers and beautifully stocked in walnut.
I like how kinda cowboyish it looks. It’s got a good blend of military look yet very solid American look to it. Something any farm/ranch boy from Montana or elsewhere could train on and shoot great. Just a tasteful solid reliable look. Probably went well with the uniform hat and all
Surprisingly, Winchester manufactured 1917s had parts that would not interchange with Remington and Eddystone manufactured rifles. This led General Pershing to direct that Winchester 1917s not be deployed to France. This caused a great deal of hate and discontent between Winchester and the War Department and, I believe, led to a Winchester Bankruptcy filing. Also I read in a book 'Winchester, The Way it Was' about the New Haven factory, that sometime in the 1950s or '60s they were clearing out a warehouse and found several cases of P-17s NIB that they sold to employees for something like $3.00 each!
The cock on close feature is extremely smooth and fast also to boot. The Winchester made M1917 was the best quality of the three manufacturers; Winchester(produced the least), Remington(produced the second most), and Eddystone(who produced the most).
I found one for sale in a place I travel to. It's a Winchester 1917. It looks awesome. But a little afraid of buying a 105 year old rifle. Going to go back with a better bore light and a bore snake to see if it's worth buying. Any advice what else to look for? I think it's original 1917 Barrel. Manufactured in September 1917
Found a 1917 winchester in my friends basement rafters and gave him 100 bucks for it,it's all original too never been cut,no bayonet though,gun is in good shape too
Help me I have been looking for a modern stock for my own Winchester Model 1917(Second Hand has been bubba good) I was told it will fit an aftermarket 70 stock is this true? also love the chanle
I had the Winchester and the Eddystone. The Eddystone was a superior rifle in every respect. Both of my guns were in 3006 cal. These are tack drivers without scopes. Would like to see these made again. Exactly like the originals.
The U.S. soldier of WW1 was the best armed soldiers . Issued a rifle in 30-06 and either an auto loading .45 acp. Pistol or one of two very find double action revolvers chamber for .45acp. made by Colt or S&W.
Beautiful example, fairly late production for Winchester. If any of y'all want one of these, now is the time because they're not getting any cheaper, and there are plenty on the market
Winchester is not the only one that made this rifle is also made by Remington and Eddie stone which is a sub place of Remington and they are all machine inspected the parts to enter swap
the Brits found out AFTER WWI that the P-14 made by Winchesster was the most accurate and best made of the three manufacturers. They built ALL of their designated sniper rifles out of ONLY Winchester P-14s up until WWII.
I have a Remington-made one in my safe now in much better shape than that. When I married my wife, my father in law, who is a hunter but didnt know about surplus guns, had this rifle he was going to sporterize into a hunting rifle. I saw it, the shape it was in and said you absolutely are not and squirreled it away to my safe and collection.
It's difficult to find an unmolested one. Had a Remington someone had machined the ears and rear sights off and replaced with Williams hooded front post with shortened barrel and aperture rear mounted to the bolt release. The rear shifts constantly. The receiver had been drilled but never completed and the stock was butchered. I found a Winchester that was almost complete but the upper wood was missing and the forend was shortened but the barrel and sights were completely untouched and it shoots great! Either kick like a bloody mule with that steel butt plate! I am happy I never served in WWI shooting such a rifle with that butt plate in combat. My days with the M14 in the Navy weren't nearly comparable!
Didn't know that the US used Enfields. Then again considering how late in the war the US joined makes sense, although could make things a little awkward logistically if used in conjunction with the Springfields (at least I don't think they had much in common, being closer to the Mk III SMLE than the Springfield)
M1917 "Enfield" rifles have more in common with the M1903 Springfield than the SMLE. Both the '17 and '03 are Mauser-derived actions with front locking lugs. Biggest plus to the '17 is the vastly better rear aperture sights, followed by the magazine that holds 6 instead of 5. IMO the M1917 should have been retained post-WW1 as the US primary service rifle--and we had a couple million more of them already on hand than we did M1903 rifles. Wasn't until 1942 when the M1903A3 was rushed into existence that the 03 caught up to the M1917's sights.
Capable of being great shooters. Have an Eddystone - fitted a smaller aperture to the long range sight to sharpen the front sight, and could keep 168 Matchkings under 2 moa. Lasered a coyote at 295 one day and dropped him through the middle of the rib cage.
![U.S. Rifle M1917 [Sgt. York's WW1 Medal of Honor Story ] to 500yds: Practical Accuracy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OYunBYZyCY8/mqdefault.jpg)
Othais and Mae : **heavy breathing** Can you send us bolt pics
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I believe both the M1903 Springfield and the M1917 were absolutely excellent World War I infantry weapons and, of course, both fired the .30-06 cartridge. However, I’d really like your guys to produce a shot video where you compare and contrast these two - top-level similar, but unique designs - weapons. Thanks.
I would like to see what Steve and Caleb have in their personal vault. That would be neat i think
i'd like to know their credit card and social security information
I have a Remington P17...great rifle, well built slick action, durable and accurate.
It's an M1917, it's not a British rifle, it's American
@@JM-jv7ps has still long been called a P17 despite the M1917 military designation, that doesn't make it British by any means.
@@RollingRigTraction agreed OP is actually more correct seeing as we ripped the entire design off the brits. It’s not American nor is it an Enfield. It’s a Pattern 14 rifle based off of the Mauser design with slight similarities to an Enfield...
The P.13 was unreal as far as accuracy + ALSO the cartridge was as accurate as a .300 mag at 1000 yard's. So "hot" it melted the bbl's (look it up) they were all sniper rifle's. They just switched it back to .303 so they didn't have to change the caliber. Identical to the Pattern 14 other than Caliber. I read the British wouldn't adopt it in SMLE name, yes the action was almost Identical to the M.98 mauser ( the most accurate bolt action to ever be designed)👍😉✳
@@JM-jv7ps Made by Winchester/ Remington or ...Ithaca I believe.
My Model 1917 #235081 also a winchester build. Still in original condition. Love it.
My most favourable action and rifle. I own two m17’s, Canadian issue, five p14’s, and also custom rifles built on this action, 303 Br., 30/06, 300 win mag. 375 H&H, 270 win, 30/338 and 308 win, HB. Greatest rifle ever made in my mind. Thanks for the great video.
I love my Winchester Model of 1917...I bought it in 1968 for $45.....I was only 15 at the time, got my dad to do the purchase....I still have love Her...
One of the finest rifles ever made.... for a young man that is. I owned a couple. One original in '06 and the other customed into a belted magnum with a nice stock. Found the custom on a used gun rack and paid $150 for it... never mind what year that was sonnie boy. The '17 Enfield shoots as quick as an automatic with just a little practice. Downside is the original weighed a ton... twice the weight of my newer hunting rifles. Second only to a Garand as battle rifles go... fine big chunk of pointy stick on one end and caveman club on the other... you can also shoot things with it.
I have a 1917, eddystone mfg, all matching still blued, 9/17 barrel. Lovely shooter. Brownells owes the 1917, Mauser, Springfield, etc a lot, back when brownells was called “the gunsmiths mart” these were being sold by the dcm for cheap, and many a sporter some nice and some not nice were made out of these.
That one is in very nice shape. 30-06 an American icon.
It's also more accurate than the 1903, and the rifle that Sargent York used.
How is it more accurate?
@@squidy4082 much longer distance between sights [sight picture] and it is a peep sight and not a v notch.....and the barrel is 2 inches long I believe...
Yeah, it’s not proved what gun he used during his feets. He wouldn’t even say himself. All he said was he didn’t like the sights on the m1917. Nobody’s knows the truth
Winchester built 1917s are the rarest of the 3 manufacturers. I have one myself
Sergeant York's service rifle I've got a Eddystone version great rifles...
Sources say York traded to get a 1903, he didn't like the sights on the M1917. Geoff Who notes FWIW.
The P1917 bayonet is quite a piece of steel, it also fits the Winchester WWI shotguns.
Thank you sir, I’ve had mine passed down from my grandfather didn’t know much about it other then it’s a great shooter
So want an eddystone version.
Best Enfield ever made.
@E No windage-adjustable rear sight. Means you can't shoot Camp Perry matches with it. Plus it wasn't invented by the Ordnance Corps or the Federal Armories.
That it's a better rifle for actual field shooting, albeit a bit heavier and longer, wasn't the focus.
I had 2 of these rifles. One disappeared the other I unfortunately gave the bolt to a friend who said they could have someone look at to fix. Never got it back but still had the rifle which I stupidly sold to a gun dealer back in 2014 for 100 dollars when I was moving and downsizing what I had. Wish I still had both guns. They were pretty cool. My sister and her friend actually stole them from a bar in New York and gave them both to me. I was about 16 at the time. Very heavy guns but very cool. You can tell how well they were made and machined
Got one in the safe. A Christmas gift from my son.
You have a very good son!
I have an all original parts and blued 1918 Remington Model 1917. One of the prides of my collection.
The Winchester P14 parts were not always interchangeable with those rifles from the other two US Sources. Did they fix that with the M1917? You might have noted the M1917 can hold 7 rounds of .30-06 as opposed to 5 rounds of .303 in the P14, rimless advantage. Geoff Who remembers an Old Ohio Farmer, who kept one into the 1960s, and some folks claim it's the best Bolt Action Battle Rifle EVER!
He said the rear sight adjusted out to 1,600 meters. I am not an expert but I think sights were set up for yards in those days. I don't think we went to meters until we joined NATO. If I am mistaken please let me know.
I got a couple of these and Pattern 14. Build up a 458 win mag. thanks for video!
Did you know there is a 1917 Winchester drive in Texas? Love this state more and more every day.
A number of years ago I purchased a very well preserved Remington made P14 chambered for .303. I'm glad you made mention of the rear sight and concur it's above average in robustness and quality. I've never had a problem with either loading or ejection regard the rifle to be very accurate. The only negative is that it's a little heavy when compared to modern weapons although probably about average for bolt action combat rifles from that period. Some might consider it pretty.
What a great rifle! I really enjoy shooting this rifle and she's a beauty to look at!
I love that rifle stand!
As a guy that owns a Winchester and a son with an Eddystome, I do have some insight on the safety. Both rifles are sporterized. The Eddystone is 264 Winchester Magnum done in 1959. Mine is a 300 Winchester Magnum with rechambering of original barrel in 1995. If a person is excited or rushed while taking the safety off it can be a problem. If the safety is NOT flipped all the way forward and the trigger is pulled, it will NOT fire, BUT flipping the rest of the way forward WILL fire the chambered round. I have done it with both rifles. I am curious if it is limited to the 2 rifles we have or if others have done it as well. With an unloaded rifle flip the safety about halfway, pull the trigger, then without touching the trigger see if flipping the safety forward will release the firing pin. Both rifles are tack drivers and beautifully stocked in walnut.
Great rifle, takes a really cool bayonet
Great video Caleb, Thanks!
I like how kinda cowboyish it looks. It’s got a good blend of military look yet very solid American look to it. Something any farm/ranch boy from Montana or elsewhere could train on and shoot great. Just a tasteful solid reliable look. Probably went well with the uniform hat and all
They're phenomenal rifles. I've taken my Winchester M1917 out to 1000 yards.
I really understand the need for the kar98 because that rifle is long af
Also has dock on closing and continued round feed same as model 98 mauser.
Great rifle, thanks for sharing.
Love that rifle
I have one thats been sporterized. I would like to put original walnut wood back on it. Do you have the wood furniture for these or any whole rifle?
Surprisingly, Winchester manufactured 1917s had parts that would not interchange with Remington and Eddystone manufactured rifles. This led General Pershing to direct that Winchester 1917s not be deployed to France. This caused a great deal of hate and discontent between Winchester and the War Department and, I believe, led to a Winchester Bankruptcy filing. Also I read in a book 'Winchester, The Way it Was' about the New Haven factory, that sometime in the 1950s or '60s they were clearing out a warehouse and found several cases of P-17s NIB that they sold to employees for something like $3.00 each!
Are those the ones with stars stamped on the recievers?
Yes, circle/star on the left side were ordered not to be deployed because of parts interchangeability problems.@@phatforrest
The cock on close feature is extremely smooth and fast also to boot. The Winchester made M1917 was the best quality of the three manufacturers; Winchester(produced the least), Remington(produced the second most), and Eddystone(who produced the most).
And if you sporterize it, Gun Jesus will not be happy.
Nor will Gun Grandpa.
The sling swivel is offset. Should the long side be to the bolt side?
I found one for sale in a place I travel to. It's a Winchester 1917. It looks awesome. But a little afraid of buying a 105 year old rifle. Going to go back with a better bore light and a bore snake to see if it's worth buying. Any advice what else to look for? I think it's original 1917 Barrel. Manufactured in September 1917
It would be interesting to learn more about the "things" Caleb alluded to that were "like the Boer War."
I have one but it’s a eddystone!
What is the difference between a U.S. 1917 and U.S. CF1917?
Very cool rifle Caleb! I think I need one. Any idea what the going price for one would be?
🤓 Thanks
She’s a beauty! My brother has an Enfield .308 and it’s one of the nicer guns I’ve shot
Found a 1917 winchester in my friends basement rafters and gave him 100 bucks for it,it's all original too never been cut,no bayonet though,gun is in good shape too
Help me I have been looking for a modern stock for my own Winchester Model 1917(Second Hand has been bubba good) I was told it will fit an aftermarket 70 stock is this true? also love the chanle
I had the Winchester and the Eddystone. The Eddystone was a superior rifle in every respect. Both of my guns were in 3006 cal. These are tack drivers without scopes. Would like to see these made again. Exactly like the originals.
Why were the Eddystones superior? Are the Winchester Produced 1917s just junk?
How many rifles did Winchester produce during the manufacturing period?
Best way to clear a room is with a grenade. ROE usually do not allow for that.
I was thinking Air Strike and take out the whole building.
Why is there two different size firing pins marked "W" for the 1917 Enfield.
The U.S. soldier of WW1 was the best armed soldiers . Issued a rifle in 30-06 and either an auto loading .45 acp. Pistol or one of two very find double action revolvers chamber for .45acp. made by Colt or S&W.
Beautiful example, fairly late production for Winchester.
If any of y'all want one of these, now is the time because they're not getting any cheaper, and there are plenty on the market
Winchester is not the only one that made this rifle is also made by Remington and Eddie stone which is a sub place of Remington and they are all machine inspected the parts to enter swap
Caleb can hold his own without Steve the Classy Wisconsinite. Good vid.
Sweet
I gotta find me one of these.
Does anyone know if any of these were converted to sniper rifles with scopes?
the Brits found out AFTER WWI that the P-14 made by Winchesster was the most accurate and best made of the three manufacturers. They built ALL of their designated sniper rifles out of ONLY Winchester P-14s up until WWII.
I have a Remington-made one in my safe now in much better shape than that. When I married my wife, my father in law, who is a hunter but didnt know about surplus guns, had this rifle he was going to sporterize into a hunting rifle. I saw it, the shape it was in and said you absolutely are not and squirreled it away to my safe and collection.
I was given one of these by my Father but unfortunately it was already sporterized :(
It's difficult to find an unmolested one. Had a Remington someone had machined the ears and rear sights off and replaced with Williams hooded front post with shortened barrel and aperture rear mounted to the bolt release. The rear shifts constantly. The receiver had been drilled but never completed and the stock was butchered. I found a Winchester that was almost complete but the upper wood was missing and the forend was shortened but the barrel and sights were completely untouched and it shoots great! Either kick like a bloody mule with that steel butt plate! I am happy I never served in WWI shooting such a rifle with that butt plate in combat. My days with the M14 in the Navy weren't nearly comparable!
It's my dad's old Eddystone. Sticky bolt and all?
i have one of these by eddystone
Didn't know that the US used Enfields. Then again considering how late in the war the US joined makes sense, although could make things a little awkward logistically if used in conjunction with the Springfields (at least I don't think they had much in common, being closer to the Mk III SMLE than the Springfield)
M1917 "Enfield" rifles have more in common with the M1903 Springfield than the SMLE. Both the '17 and '03 are Mauser-derived actions with front locking lugs.
Biggest plus to the '17 is the vastly better rear aperture sights, followed by the magazine that holds 6 instead of 5.
IMO the M1917 should have been retained post-WW1 as the US primary service rifle--and we had a couple million more of them already on hand than we did M1903 rifles.
Wasn't until 1942 when the M1903A3 was rushed into existence that the 03 caught up to the M1917's sights.
I see that bazooka in the safe there.
And it’s also a 6+1 capacity which is pretty cool!!
They also cock on close as opposed to most US rifles that cock the hammer on open of the bolt
كم قياس الرصاص ؟
1600 meters or 1600 yards? I always understood it was yards. American and British did not use the European metric system.
Didnt that great American Alvin York carry this rifle that earned him the MEDAL OF HONOR....
Capable of being great shooters. Have an Eddystone - fitted a smaller aperture to the long range sight to sharpen the front sight, and could keep 168 Matchkings under 2 moa. Lasered a coyote at 295 one day and dropped him through the middle of the rib cage.
can caleb read us a bedtime story next
The site is in yards and not meters
would you sell it
1600 yards not meters....M14 first US weapon in meters...
As die boere scopes op hulle 303’s gehad het, het die Queen nou Afrikaans gepraat!
I think I have a bayonet for this rifle in my... Don't have the rifle though.
an original bayonet is worth as much as the rifle
@@bobwise1347 I honestly don't know what rifle the bayonet goes too, but I got another bayonet that looks like it's from the Civil War era.
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First!