The 'bestselling' book about lichens
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2024
- Rowan Ellis, Alec Steele and Simon Clark face a question about bulk book buying.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcast.com
GUESTS:
Rowan Ellis: @HeyRowanEllis, / heyrowanellis
Alec Steele: @AlecSteele, / alecsteelesteel
Simon Clark: @SimonClark, / simonoxfphys
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. 
Развлечения
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I'm half-disappointed nobody went for a Lichen Subscribe gag
Right? My first thought.
i hope i can oneday use that, for both kinds of lichen
As a lichen aficionado it bothers me how everyone in this video seems to think lichens are plants. They aren’t!
Edit: since this comment is getting replies by people who seem interested, lichens are a relationship between a fungi and either a Cyanobacteria or an algae. But it is important to remember that algae are not plants, they’re protists. Although green algae are a sister taxa to plants.
What are they?
@@nodrance Fungi
Well, from a botanical standpoint, they're a symbiote born from an algae and a fungi, so it is partially a plant, meaning they're partially right
But from other points of view, they're only regarded and treated as fungi
Taxonomy is a very complex and approximative subject which goal is to name and categorize everything into groups, but nature isn't so simple, if you wanted scientific accuracy, lichen should be its own group, like coral or platypus, but we don't have names for those groups because they only contain 1 member each, so instead we default to one trait and put them in groups they would otherwise not fit, fungi, some greater animal order, and semi-aquatic mammal respectively
@@wesleyevans2981 Aren't lichens some sort of a mutual arrangement between an algae and a fungus?
Symbiosis between a fungus and algae-like plant. . So not a fungus or a plant but also yes a fungus and a plant . .
Addressing homophones by spelling out the IPA in subtitles was a brilliant solution (and very on brand). The attention to detail never ceases to amaze me
Except for the majority of people who can't read IPA.
The subtitles was paid for by Tom's Lamborghini budget
@@alexythemechanic8056it still helps differentiate them for those that can't hear
There's a small error, though. It should be /ˈlaɪ.kənz/, not /ˈlaɪ.kəns/. That would be more like "lichence."
@@columbus8myhwI think you're probably right, but the difference between voiced and unvoiced isn't that much (at least when I try and do it). I also can't seem to find anywhere online that shows the IPA for the plural, so...
And Tom's subtitles are of excellent quality, I wish everyone else cared so much when doing their own, usually they're computer-generated and quite poor 😑
sometimes fanfiction knowledge is not enough I guess
Lies! Knowing how popular werewolves are helps you understand why this can't be a book on lycans 😁
but it was enough to make a great intro! I just wish someone added werewolves from fantasy and rpg to further confuse Tom
@@IceMetalPunkp
I somehow knew it would be the person with blue hair and pronouns going for the lycan interpretation
Not with that attitude, someone just needs to make a fanfiction about Amazon.
The joke would have been on them had the publisher thought “We are getting so many orders for this book we’ll have to reprint it” and the next time they ordered them with the book they wanted they got nine copies of this book on lichen.
And the publisher, 2991 copies in their warehouse.
The issue is that if they did stock the book there are so many alternative books that would work just as well
I suspect they would find out about the reprinting before they started shipping, and switch to a different book But, if not, you can return the books you don't sell.
Still, it might have made sense to have a bunch of different books to use to avoid any one seeming to be popular enough for that.
I now want to know how badly Amazon's wallet got hammered when the publisher saw the demand for this book and put it back into print.
There's this really beautiful article on JSTOR about Elke Mackenzie, a pioneering lichenologist who tried to credit herself after her gender transition.
Not even a minute in and there's IPA in the subtitle
very tom scott
@@amelialikesfrogs5778but Tom doesn't drink.
(I'll see myself out)
@@myladycasagrande863 please do
Back in 2009 my sister called me to ask if I wanted to see this new movie, ‘Underworld: Rise of the Lycans’. Not knowing much about the franchise, I asked “is that a movie about vampires versus… moss?”
And here I thought that someone at Amazon was just really lichen that book 🤣
MOS is metal-oxide semiconductor (like in MOSFET transistor, and the company MOS Technology that made the 6502). But I can't think of a computer-related meaning of "moss" with two s at the end.
There's Maurice Moss from IT Crowd of course!
Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor transistor?
@@Archgeek0 You can pay for them with cash from the Automated Teller Machine machine.
@@wta1518 Provided of course you have your Personal Information Number number on hand.
The notable ones are all old.
MIME Object Security Services from 2012 is obsolete.
Microsoft Office SharePoint Server was a 2007 release, also obsolete.
And the Map Overlay & Statistical System came out in 1979 and is long superceded.
Obviously there are some OSS projects called MOSS on GitHub but nothing particularly significant.
MOSS is an algorithm for detecting similarity between two documents. Often used in plagiarism detection.
very nice!
Anyone else shouting IT Crowd when Alec asked if Moss was computer related?
It's also an acronym for Microsoft Office SharePoint Server, which was the former name of Microsoft Sharepoint.
I only got CMOS and MOSFET... oh and now remembered the thought I had about "that Commodore chip" which was a MOS Chip (MOS 6502).
I was searching through the comments for this!!
I just shouted "tnetennba"!
No, I wouldn't shout at people on a screen who can't hear me. It's weird.
I'm a surprised that Amazon weren't eventually blacklisted by the publishers! From their perspective, repetitive orders of the same out-of-print book would seem like a scam to get the books at the cheaper price.
Well, Amazon is a scam, all right
Holy moly one that I knew right off the bat from the BtB episode on Jeff Bezos! Also, great guests, I'd love to see Dr. Simon Clark on more of these!
I love when I know a Lateral answer before any of the contestants have begun asking questions.
As soon as the One Less than 10 came up I knew exactly what was going on.
Rowan Ellis and Simon Clark!!!!!
And awesome to learn about Alex Steele
Alec is amazing!
Not quite moss, but MOS was was a well know chip maker, whose products ran such devices as Commodore 64 and the Nintendo Entertainment System.
I'm just imagining that book someday going back in print and Amazon getting thousands of copies shipped and billed to them all at once
You can do the same thing with any website that has a minimum order quantity, but can't check the stock themselves. Like instacart, doordash or other services like that. Order what you want, and then a whole lot of something that you know is out of stock.
Pretty much all computers use sea moss.
Okay, CMOS. Complementary Metal-Oxide-Semiconductors. The design of transistors that forms logic gates in very nearly all computers since the mid 1980s. Super low power, only draws current when actively switching.
Huh. I was certain this was going to be some sort of testing thing, where they kept ordering this one particular obscure book as part of checking their systems worked. (I'm reminded about the old DailyWTF article 'I'VE GOT THE MONKEY NOW', about a book ordering system which allowed test orders for a particular book to go into the live system's database. They never actually fulfilled these orders, but the apparent sales created a fictional bestseller which eventually got a sequel!)
Thank you Tom for pronouncing Lichen correctly
Weird how people are always bitchin' about lichen.
blame WOW and their lich king.
Actually, the original (Greek) word sounds closer to "ch" than "k".
Rowan is always a delight to hear, I can't wait to listen to the whole episode
I love this series 🙌🏼
MOSS is a program used to detect plagiarism in computer code. Used it a lot as a TA
The best book about lichens is undoubtedly gathering moss by Robin Wall Kemmerer, nothing to do with the question but got to love a botanist poets writing
I've never heard of Simon before but now I'll go try and find him online!
God, this subtitles are incredible
MOS was a UK chip maker in the 70s that later renamed to INMos, you have used some of the things that came out of the office in Bristol (they got merged into ST)
Oh cool! Alec Steele!
MOS was a little company that invented a little 8 bit microprocessor called 6502, used in washing machines, tamagotchi, Terminator T800, Bender, Apple II, NES, and Commodore 64.
There was a semiconductor manufacturer named MOS. They made the Commodore 64.
Fly Fishing by JR Hartley walked so lichen could run.
I was proud... then immediately ashamed, I knew something that Tom didn't 😅
The "an" in "lycanthrope" belongs to the second part of the word ("anthropos"). It's not lycan+thrope, it's lyc(o)+anthrope. "Lycan" is just a shortened version of the full word, so it wouldn't be "lycan the wolf", it would be "lycan the werewol".
That was pretty clever. The ecologist in me found it very difficult listening to lichens being called mosses.
I knew there would be indignant botanists in the comments explaining the difference, but for the sake of keeping the show moving I can see why that wouldn't be a productive tangent.
MOS Technology was a semiconductor production company that created chips powering a lot of computers and consoles in the 80s-90s, such as the Atari 2600 and Commodore 64, eventually being out by Commodore.
Now I really want to read that book about lichens.
If anything, it should be Scott being called out not knowing about Lycans, considering how relatively prevalent they are in both writing and film.
Tbf it's mythological fiction knowledge because it's named after Lycaon who was the first werewolf in Greek myth
Microsoft SharePoint was at some point known as Microsoft Office SharePoint Server, so there's ya IT MOSS abbreviation.
I'd argue that it's mythology knowledge, not fan or literary fiction knowledge. But mythology tends to appear in both.
Tom Scott is all about ducks, not werewolves.
We desperately need a question about wereducks
I remember the ducks video. That was lovely.
What color are the ducks? And how does he feel about geese?
0:15 was it a weird aspect of that book's id in amazon' s database?
5:50 I did think of part of that, but couldn't get the full picture.
Initial thoughts: some book data (e.g. title, item number, URL part) wasn't being properly parsed, escaped, or sanitized, effecting "new orders" in the system. It could be from SQL injections, XSS, data manipulations, or basic malfunctions (bugs).
Moss in computers Metal Oxide Semi conductor (I.e. CMOS) springs to mind.
Moss was one of the characters in IT Crew so yeah
I'm curious as to what the title of the lichen book was, and I wonder if it was any good (not that I know anything about books about lichen).
Unexpected Alec Steele. 🤯
Love Lateral! Bit off topic: Could we have a Technical Difficultities special of Lateral?
I would *pay* for that.
Simon out here saying that 9 is a prime number
Well, "Moss" is in the IT Crowd, so technically correct. Which is the best kind of correct.
If you think Moss has no obvious uses in computing then my answer to you is TNETENNBA.
For a short period of time, there was a Microsoft Office Sharepoint Server.
I am surprised the publishers didn't look at the demand, and decide to reprint this popular Lichen book. Think of how many thousands of copies Amazon was trying to order.
Strictly speaking "Lycanthrope" is another word for werewolf, and "Lycan" is slang among tabletop RPGers for "Lycanthrope".
Now I want a copy of the lichen book. *pout*
My first thought: "Lycans? Oh this could've been so funny if it were about Amazon Werehouses."
I've actually done this to Amazon. I ordered a n item that wasn't in stock to get the total up over the £25 for free-delivery.
Plot twist!
@@lateralcast Another great standby is if I want free delivery on something, I just add a 12kg bag of Wagg to the order. Hey, the boys are going to eat it anyway.
Funny that I did the exact same thing with Amazon to get their free shipping.
What about MOS Technology, ? they made the 6502, which with its low cost made the Apple ii and the Commodore happen.
MOSFET is a type of transistor that is used to physically build/design CPU's
6:32 So I still don't understand. Was Amazon receiving the other 9 and returning them or finagling the system to just get one book? And how would that different from any other book store?
They were only sent the one book that was actually ordered, because the other one that they "ordered" was out of print, so there was no stock to send out.
Traditional bookshops buy multiple books and often multiple copies of the same book at once, because they want to stock their shelves. However, Amazon didn't have anywhere to store stock at that time and as an online retailer they didn't need the physical copies to be able to sell them. So they only wanted to order what the customer actually purchased, but the publishers had a minimum order of ten books - hence the workaround.
@@hannahk1306 Thank you! I was caught up on this specific book about lichen before realizing that just meant "obviously out of print" (rude) lol
MOS Metal Oxide Silicone as in MOSFET
I wonder why they didn't bring the Lichen book back to print. One night of good business and suddenly Amazon is bankrupt, only a few thousand books about lichen to their name.
So no love for the third synonym, "likens," then?
MOS - metal-oxide-semiconductor
MOSS may refer to:
Technology
Map Overlay and Statistical System, a geographic information system (GIS)
Microsoft SharePoint, known in its 2007 version as Microsoft Office SharePoint Server (MOSS)
MIME Object Security Services, an IETF security protocol
Mobile submarine simulator, a sonar decoy
Morocco Oukaimeden Sky Survey, an astronomical survey of Solar System objects in Morocco
Other uses
Market Oriented Sector Selective talks, trade negotiations between the United States and Japan in 1984
MOSS (company), a Japanese video game company
MoSS, a Canadian hip-hop producer
Mini One Stop Shop, the European Union VAT system for cross-border B2C e-services.
So... what book about lichens was it? I feel like I must read it now, to make it up to the author.
2:30 What, no CMOS?
I heard this before but for the life of me I couldn't remember it
I can't even remember where it was that I heard it
3:40
He's think of Fermat primes but more importantly: Since when is 9 a prime? 😆
Hang on, didnt Matt Parker cover something about this?
Today I learn Lichen is not said how I thought it was
CMOS [Complementary Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor] =)
MOS-FET
How do I watch the show in video without downloading some terrible program like spotify, or Pocket cast. Good lord certainly not an apple product.
I thought maybe "order" meant "sort".
But, because they were getting so many orders for this book, they ordered another printing run.
Acorn MOS
Acorn ADFS
BASIC
>_
Does this have to do with how Amazon used to be Jeff Bezos’s way of getting textbooks cheaper? Or was that a folktale?
"Lycan" is Latin for "wolf" whereas "lichen" is a fungalgae blob.
Both can be monsters, in a way...
Someone was just *that* desperate and wanted to lichen subscribe!
To be fair, that's exactly what I do when Bezos insists I spend another three pounds on books to get free shipping.
The "moss" bit irritates me.
lycan vs lichen GO!
Jesus Christ, Tom, how the heck could you say they are plants like moss?! They are symbiotic colonies of algae and fungi.
As a non-native I only knew of one lycan - the warewolf one 😅
And here I am cringing when they keep saying lichen is moss... it's NOT MOSS!
I'm _lichen_ this panel
kthxbaiiii
It's best not to liken lycan and lichen.
This one was almost too easy. How do a bunch of RUclipsrs not get it?
Microsoft
Open
Source
Software?😅😂
Idiosyncrasy i know.
Apart from being some of the worst offenders among adobe, apple, autodesk and such, microsoft is doing better in the recent years. Still, don't trust them.
I thought it had something to do with lichen sounding like " like and subscribe"
thats evil
It's funny that Tom did not know about lycan(thrope)s.
I did not know that lichen is pronounced that way.. am I the only one who assumed it's similar to the Lich king, or Lichess?
That is such a programmer solution to a problem.
This definitely seems like fraud. But I guess that's how all trillion dollar companies do business.
it's a pronounciation thing, written it becomes clearer: lycan vs. lichen