Info We Hope You Never Have To Use - Venting Fuel Tanks To Prevent Catastrophic Fires
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2023
- You don't need to be in a blindingly fast car to find yourself upside down, and possibly on fire.
An on track fatality this past weekend got us thinking about fire safety and how some precautions that can prevent large amounts of fuel from escaping an upside down tank or cell are never discussed and not even an official tech item at sanctioned tracks.
Here are some things you need to consider when venting your fuel cell or tank, using our own car as an example of how to think through possible scenarios and take steps to make sure everything stays together in a worst case scenario.
#racing #fire #cars
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That’s horrible. It looks like he was moving pretty good. 212mph possibly. We saw Darrel Gwynn go over right in front of us at BIR. I’m not sure how fast he was going but I do know it’s a miracle if they make it.
The incident that prompted this video was actually a door slammer, and the accident happened in Morroco, Indiana this past weekend.
@@UncleTonysGarage Oh ok I saw the other one. That didn’t end well either.
Anyone have a link?
@@lilmike2710 there is local news reports. No name. 45 year old driving a 96 mustang on a solo run
@@chuckeecheese162 Thanks! 👍 Dang, that's the car that I drive as a daily. I've been considering making it faster with the hp top end parts and other things.
So I'm assuming the driver didn't walk away then?
I worked pumping peoples gas at a Texico station in the Bronx as a teenager in the early 80's. We had a box of old gas caps that have been left at the station over the years. People would come in missing a gas cap and we would let them pick through the box. This was right around the time cars went from vented caps to unvented caps and the evap canisters. People would pick the wrong cap and put a nonvented on a vented cap tank and no time... it would suck the gas tank pancake flat!
I pumped gas at a Texico in Chicago in the early eighties also, No self service, just semi or full so any forgotten gas caps was our fault. fixing flats, checking oil,filling tires, I always hated how it would be dead for ten minutes then out of nowhere 4 cars would pull in and half would want full service.
Safety content is always important content. Specialy for us, who want to go drag racing and dont know all these important Safety techs.
Nothin wrong being safe while doing dumb things 😁
In fact ,safety is kinda cool.
Climbing thru a jungle gym and nets to enter your car is pretty cool to most onlookers 😂
So True so many videos about fuel tanks and fuel cells but I have never heard anyone talk about a Roll over valve or how to properly vent.
Much needed talk.
Stay safe.
You Absolutely Nailed it Rock Solid at the End Man! Even if you are doing everything right, and having the best day ever out there, the guy in the other lane just might be the one that's having the worst day ever. You have to make these things as safe as possible for not only you, but the other guy as well. Good stuff as always UTG!
I was incredibly anal about my fuel system. I used a rollover valve on the vent line and plugged off what I didn't need using AN fittings. I showed this to my friend who would tech cars at drift events and he mentioned he never even considered looking for a rollover valve on people's cars. I had to pause for a moment to process that information.
Stuff you don't half ass are brakes,fuel,and seat belts.Unfortunately,that is where people seem to half ass the most.
Good point on how urgent fuel safety can be. Somebody needs to make a video about how important a fire extinguisher is.... Or better still maybe install a central fire extinguisher for the engine and fuel area's
After all of these years I have to admit this is something that I never payed much attention to but you know ending up on your roof just doesn’t apply to the track but also the street and anything can happen.
Racing is a dangerous game things can go wrong especially when people get comfortable and things become routine , people take things for granted and don't think about the little details in this incident was probably one of those incidence unfortunately.
Well said
DIYers, please, please, PLEASE listen to this man. He has the knowledge and experience to save your life sometimes in spite of yourself. When buying safety equipment, ask yourself if it's more expensive than your life.
Uncle Tony, I know how you feel about Atcos closing. I was there when Lions in Gardena, Ca.closed, not a happy feeling. Thanks for putting out some important info and advice.
Thanks Tony !
Things like this a person can forget about talking care of especially when it’s too late.
Thanks Uncle Tony, great advice to keep us safe. 👍👍🇨🇦
Great video ton’ folks take this stuff with a grain of salt, it’s all fun and games until you’re on fire!!!
Then that grain of salt will add seasoning ...
Dammit man ,that reminds me of something I keep forgetting to buy.
A fire extinguisher!
12-14k in this project car ,would be sad to see something happen because I didn't have a 30$ fire extinguisher.
@@MrTheHillfolk I have 4 fire extinguishers in my car, one of them has to work god damn it
The worst wreck I ever saw, was Richard Pettys 1988 Daytona 500 wreck. To this day, anytime I hear the words, "race", and "wreck" , THAT one comes to the front of my mind.
I think I was there that night with the Maveric..A light sea foam green one if I recall
I tend to only watch programs where I learn something, that's why I enjoy your channel.
In the early 2000s I was friends with a guy who was running a blown nostalgia front engine dragster.......I was in the pits and they were chasing a small oil leak that was running down the frame and dripping down on the ground near the rear tires....My Dad found the leak but myfriend and the small volunteer crew were so amped up about going rounds they tried to clean it up fast and send it anyway. He totally ignored the fact it was leaking and needed a new AN fitting that could not be found at the track....by dumb luck he forgot his drivers gloves at the starting line and could not run the round....it blew oil out of the fitting headding back down the pit road and coated the left rear tire in oil......sometimes its the "loose nut behind the wheel" thats the most dangerous part of the car.
Traded Ford trucks with a guy. Had the front high pressure pump replaced a week before at an auto shop. A week after we traded the fuel line popped off and burned the truck to the ground. Be very careful when using Ford plastic clips that hold the fuel lines on. They can crack or break off one side and become unsafe.
Look up Don Renfrow 55 Chevy crash. The car was slow as shit, yet it nearly disintegrated on the dragstrip. The guy is lucky to be alive.
circle tracks require fuel cells with roll over vents. Even the low classes require them.
Appreciate the video Tony, it's something that not many people ever think about.Its better to be safe than sorry..
I noticed your Seabees banner. I am a Seabee Vietnam vet, MCB 62 Delta Company Dong Ha, Vietnam 1969.
Great video! I was just a few weeks ago thinking about adding a rollover valve to my car but it got pushed out of my mind for whatever reason. I just ordered one after I watched this. Sometimes like you said you have to worry about the other guy im the other lane and not you. I have seen regular racer that are "buddies with the tech guy running front runners down to the cords! Them tech guys ( not all of them mind you) are not doing racers any favors. Thanks for a great video
Way to go Tony, great safety information.
Thanks Tony. I learn something new everyday!
Thanks uncle tony.
It would also be good to have the vent line headed towards the opposite side of the car that the fuel cell vent is on in case you end up on your side. On your setup down like you have it then turn to the driver's side past the point of the cell
I’m restoring a 76 f250 highboy and it’s had the in cab tank removed and two saddle tanks installed. I think I like the idea of those even less than leaning my back against a cab tank. It’s challenging to fit a tank between the rear rails as they are narrow. But it’s been done and that’s what I’m going to do too. Great info on vent like routing Tony. Much appreciated.
Something i didn't consider. I will install a roll over vent valve in my rail buggy I am building. Thanks.
Uncle Tony I run a ground to the top of the fill ring, I believe to prevent static combustion when filling. Appreciate the videos.
THANK YOU !!!!!!
50 years ago I briefly dabbled in speedway, and the rule was to run the vent line twice around the fuel tank and then through the floor.
I always learn something from you, Uncle Tony!
Great tech/safety advice 👍
In aviation we would say there are two kinds of pilots: those that have landed gear up and those who will.
Bad things happen no matter what one does to present failure. All one can do, is keep minimizing the chance of failure, and plan for when a failure occurs.
It sounds like it was a bad incident. Fingers crossed for the driver and the family.
I have had 5 race cars in my life, none of them went faster than low twelves. I raced for fun. I'm not rich, and could not afford to chase speed. I quit 2 years ago, due to physical disabilities. None of my cars had a roll bar or roll cage. Those aren't required unless your car gets into the tens. Not a bad idea in any race car, if you can afford it. I had my vent hose routed pretty much the same way as you do, except that I did not have it secured to anything. Fortunately in 40+ years of racing, I never crashed on the track. I did have a few breakdowns, but nothing dangerous. While I like the way you did your vent hose, there is one thing I immediately thought of. Please make sure the open end of that vent hose doesn't end right behind the end of the exhaust. I know that sounds crazy, but the hose exits under the car, and the exhaust also usually exits under the car. It might be a one in a million thing, but I can just see somebody putting the end of that vent hose a couple inches from the end of the exhaust.
That's what I call "makin' bacon". Junk yards are full of rollover vent valves last I looked. Every single fuel tank.
That was great food for thought! Thanks for sharing!
Truly something to think about.
Great advice. Often overlooked.
Adding my fuel cell in my Dart this was very helpful
Great Video. Keep the tech coming.
Good talk Tony... Let's do it again.
I was at US 13 Dragway in Del-Mar DE years ago and a Camaro broke an axle and the wheel ,axle, drum assy came out, flying and bouncing out, and hit the car beside him. then both cars went out of control and crashed. It was a bad scene, thankfully everyone was OK. It's not always your car that has a failure! The Marine industry uses a nifty double check valve for fuel tank vents on boats. It maintains a specified pressure or slight vacuum in the tank. works great, vapors don't leak out freely. it's kind of like a 2 way roll over valve. liquid on either side of it will close it. Any way, for what it's worth, that's what i used.
Bravo bravo Awesome job tony
Looking at the way you have yours set up, if you were to run the end of the vent tube diagonally to the other end of the fuel cell, that would be the optimal place for your set up. It could be in any position and not drain.
Great information to learn, Thanks U.T.!
Thanks Uncle Tony! Great reminder from a pro!
Another thing no one seems to consider is what happens with an electric fuel pump in a crash. The OEMs use some sort of safety switch. Guy putting an aftermarket electronic pump on an old whatever? He's gotta hope he has the ability to switch off the key immediately after the unexpected crash.
Stories like this is why I'm installing a full fire suppression system in my 67 mustang project
I was just today arguing that we should have an all fire types extinguisher in each work truck. Result was I have to go buy them now. :)
Thanks for adding this extra little bit of paranoia in my life. What would I do without you UT.
SOLD!
Winston Cup cars use a rollover valve in their fuel filler tubes!
This is one of the reasons why I bought a 178.99 RCI 16 gallon fuel cell with built in 0-90 ohms sending unit . it comes from the factory with check ball safety valve for the vent line incase vehicle tips/ flips over .
Yep rollover valve is mandatory. I also have a RCI 16 gal
Good stuff, I will check mine later today.
when a race car gets sideways (90 degrees) and the slicks grab the track there is a good chance your going over. A roll over check valve on the vent line is a must. Its cheap insurance.
Armco barriers can turn a 30 mph hit into a rollover situation.
The lack of knowledge for things like fuel tank vents is probably because most people brush it off as just emissions BS, since emissions standards lead to very complicated vent systems so you'd think vents = for emissions.
Great tip 👍
Tony ,, Great video,, review basics.. Always helps
That line should also be through a rubber grommet so it's not rubbing on metal
If it was run through a grommet, it has the potential to shear in a crash…
Great segment, Tony - you may have saved someone’s life today.
as u always say U.T...."it's the little things that will get ya"....!....good video..!
So im listing to the vent system on fuel tanks, what came to mind is a ball ck valve where vapor can escape but, liquid cant flow past the ball. Picture a wet dry vacume
You can suck up water untill fulids raise the ball and shut off the suction from the motor, let the water out the vacume can pick up water the ball floats on water or liquids shutting off the flow air can pass fuel cant. Thats the vent system you should be using the vent system also sends the vapor to the motor and its sucked up by the carbrator assuming its not a computer controled fuel injected system.
We been dancin' with
mr. Guardrail
he's been knockin'
he won't leave me alone
no, no, no
he won't leave me alone
Once danced in the rain with Mr. Jersey Barrier, and he was rough... That tapered wall twisted my '92 Mustang, (which had about zero floors left) and caused the windshield to crack!! And it tore my tire and broke the parking light lens. It was better than hitting the Dodge truck in front of me... I changed my tire and continued to work.
Another good lesson is... Don't say "F it" when your rear brake line gives out...
GREAT tip Tony! I'll be adding one to my '65 C10 I'm currently restoring..
Good content, I got something out of all of that! Things I never thought of.
Good video Tony.
Nice one uncle 👍
Best tech and life saving video yet Tony.
More is needed and appreciated.
Thanks
Welcome to UTG information corner..
Your welcome in advance..
On a public Street I seen the police chase a car the car lost control hit a suv in the back wheel and rolled the suv over a gard rail down the hill . It was crazy . I would have never thought a still vehicle would just roll over like that
Great advice Tony, thanks
Your slick Tony.
I have friends that race locally. I posted the video to Facebook. It's safety gold.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Good information UTG , that is a subject that is never talked about 😮
There seems to be an epidemic of normal commuter car roll overs here in Australia lately, or maybe I'm just seeing them more because of dash cams and news reports.
Spikes setting up shop in the capillaries causing people to make bad decisions. Im seeing it more and more on the road and elsewhere. People are loosing their minds.
I used to have the vent line with acouple of loops in the line then to atmo , got idea off of seeing a dirt track speedway car with it
Speaking on making sure things are properly vented, any time a lead acid battery is mounted in the passenger area it needs to be well vented. Even small amounts of hydrogen can ruin your day if ignited.
I personally wouldn't mind hearing this annually along with more basics for first timers and seasoned veterans alike.
One thing I have started doing Every Time on old cars is an in-line electric pump with a relay and inertia switch. I leave the stock mech pump and the cheep pump has a switch. It helps a lot with the no start issues that come with modern ethanol fuel
HOWdy U-T-G, ...
Thanks for the WORST CASE SCENARIO !
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
Tony, what percentage of passenger cars have rollover (ball check) valves from the factory? Is there a date where NTSA made them mandatory?
Excellent question. I witnessed a roll over and ran over to help the driver/passengers. Even though upside down, the vehicle engine (and spinning rear wheels) ran a very long time.
It looks like rollover resistant fuel tanks with ball check valves on vents are mandatory since 1973 in US and since 1978 in countries following ECE meaning rest of the world. But my 67 Mopar has vented filler cap with check valve and same cap will work on bunch of cars from 50s.
Look for DOT § 393.67 or UN ECE/R34 documents. History of these documents is sometimes quite cool.
@@woodendoorgarage Thanks for the info. I worked on the fuel rank on my 5.7L '94 Caprice. I was trying to siphon gas out of the tank and discovered it had the ball check valve.
@@8000RPM. Yeah it sounds like the anti-siphon valve would also come into play in case of a rollover
another good idea is to make sure there are holes in the floor pan so any spilled fuel can run out of the car. that way if fuel is spilled while adding fuel wont keep fumes into the car for a long time.
Another big one I see a lot is someone installing an electric fuel pump and no inertia or oil pressure cutoff.
Can turn a fender bender into a rollover sized incident
I appreciate the safety info but also I can remember you putting out a cigarette with gasoline in an older episode😂
Great info but had to wonder how you used a ford as your example. I suppose when you keep getting over taken by one it creates animosity. 😁🇬🇸👍
Didn't know you mentioned it woops LOL
in your daily driver..... TURN THE KEY OFF!!!!!!
.
this stops the fuel pump...... and stops the fire from getting much larger VERY quickly.
most people just get out as fast as possible.....
.
but shift into neutral, and turn the key off (it will not turn all the way, so you can still steer)
with modern push button ignition.... it may or may not shut off the engine (might have to be in park and 0 MPH first)
.
a mechanical fuel pump (carburated motors only) will still pump if the engine is on
which is why you shift to N and turn off the key.......or at least hold in the clutch
this removes / at least lowers the RPM..... slowing down the flow of fuel
.
.
turning off the fuel pump makes a MAJOR difference in engine fires on "daily driver" type cars
The loop is absolutely useless, if you do get some fuel in it from deceleration or sloshing, it is now trapped in the loop and blocks any air from going in or out of the tank! It is no longer
a vent!
my first engine job
Uncle T, i agree 100%, but i have a ?, could/would it be just a lil better to have a lil bit bigger hole in the floor with a rubber grommet in it, keep the line loose but give it a lil more protection from being cut by the unknown distortion of the structure of the surrounding metal? I think thats the way i would set it up, actually thats exactly what i do, lol
Yeah same thoughts here
It doesn’t matter how slow your car is. A car can come across the lanes and knock you upside down, let alone the fact that they can literally flip under power at almost any speed.
sad to hear about Atco Dragway !
I wish they would stop calling fuel tanks “fuel cell”. A fuel cell is an electrochemical device to make electrical power directly from fuel, like hydrogen. A fuel tank is a container.
NHRA safety regulations are written in blood. Really nice video, please keep these coming.
Could you add thoughts about an evap system? The evap on my car is necessary for emissions and I know its actually higher than the fuel tank.
"Sincerely hope its something you never have to use" - and that is the unfortunate part on all this. How do you know your roll bar or roll cage will actually work? Did you weld it correctly or does the weld only look cosmetically good? etc. etc.
One safety aspect the road racers like - no anti-freeze in the coolant. Pure water (with maybe a water wetter) just to keep the anti-freeze off the track. Can't remember the last time the track actually checked the puke tank....
If you're going fast enough to doubt the welds on the roll cage, you should get them certified
Teach... Tony🤌
Got me thinking…never thought about this issue.
It looks like a passenger side roll could leave you with a leak.
Should the set up you are running have a section of tubing under the floor running to the drivers side of the car?