A slight clarification: While the yard can hold six trains, there are normally only three stabled there in the current timetable, and this is during the weekday off-peak only, not at night. Some links about stuff mentioned in this video: Transport Heritage NSW: www.thnsw.com.au/ Sydney Tramway Museum: www.sydneytramwaymuseum.com.au/ Official page for the High Line proposal: www.sydneyharbourhighline.org.au/ Wendy Whiteley's Secret Garden: www.wendyssecretgarden.org.au/ Enjoyed the video? Consider supporting the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset
Great video Martin! I really appreciated you discussing why turning it into a high-line may not be the best idea, it's good to get an alternative take to those dismissing what they see as "old useless railways". Keen to see your future Sydney content!
I have a similar opinion towards the inner city rail infrastructure in Perth and Brisbane. It may not be the most ideal use of such land starting from scratch, but inner city rail infrastructure is incredibly beneficial to efficient operations and can only go in the places next to existing rail lines. Meanwhile, infill development and parkland can go anywhere there is derelict or underused land and infrastructure. Even though Melbourne technically closed their inner city yards, they still have plenty of railway land to add infill sidings and infrastructure if they needed to.
@@Izib954 Perth's land use in the inner city is truly shocking, there are a stack of places you could start first before getting stuck into the rail land.
@@BigBlueMan118 Yeah, which is why I shudder everytime someone even hints at trying to "Bury more railways". The first one didn't exactly encourage as much development as planned, and didn't account for any network growth in its design either, including the Airport line which started construction before it finished. Focus on all the derelict land and buildings, and the over built road corridors, before you start disrupting the infrastructure that moves the most people in and out of the city for developers, please & thanks.
@@Izib954 Yeah I would tend to agree, the highways entering into Perth are nuts and should be scaled back or capped over once the current batch of Metronet projects are open.
Can't wait for you to do "Perth's Scenic Sidings!" So many to choose from, there's the one in a Freeway, the other one in a Freeway, the one next to a Ship Terminal, the new one in random Suburbia, the one in a Cutting, the one that's currently a dug up Construction Site... Oh, and that whole depot maintenance centre that's also inside a Freeway! 🙃
Ha, I just said to do Perth too. You will get to see a freeway, a freeway, a freeway and another freeway :) Nah, we have few different thing to see and point out, its ever changing and also the history of the old diesel OJs and the trams that once were. I'd love to see Martins take on it
@@illiiilli24601 The freeway sidings are the Cockburn and Whitfords turnbacks; the ship terminal ones are at Fremantle station; New sidings in random suburbia are the new Airport line turnbacks at Claremont and the new one at Bayswater; In a cutting is the Victoria Park sidings for the Stadium; the construction site one is the one at Cannongton which is being rebuilt for the Inner Armadale lone Grade Separation; And the Depot in a Freeway is Nowergup. Not included were Stowage sidings either side of Claisebrook depot; Fremantle line event turnback in front of Perth Station, the currently fairly defunct siding at Daglish which was originally for Subiaco Stadium events, and the other line-end sidings elsewhere, including Mandurah yards and the now demolished Armadale sidings.
@@illiiilli24601 Freeway sidings - Cockburn, Leederville & Whitfords turnbacks. Next to Ship Terminal - Fremantle station sidings. New one in suburbia - Both the new Claremont turnbacks for the Airport line, and the new Bayswater siding. In a Cutting - Victoria Park sidings for Perth Stadium. Construction Site - Cannington siding, currently being rebuilt for the Inner Armadale Line Level Crossing project. Depot in a Freeway - Nowergup Depot, which actually predates the freeway. Not Mentioned, The various Claisebrook yard sidings, the Fremantle line events turnback just east of Perth Station, the currently defunct Daglish sidings which were for the old Subiaco Oval events services, Other end-of-line sidings including Mandurah Yard, and the now demolished Armadale siding which let the Australind Bypass electric suburban trains. Perth runs a very lean network that's 99.5% segregated from freight, so there's not many yards, sidings, and interesting layouts of note. Good for passengers, boring for enthusiasts.
I walk through the Lavender Bay park pretty much every day. It's always fun to see a train. Anyone who thinks it's an 'unused track' needs to have his head read.
Hey Taitset, ex - North Sydney Driver here just a small correction in terms of train operations even though the yard holds up to 6 trains we would only every stable 3 trains Mon-Fri and that was after the morning peak where we would then prep them in the afternoon and go out west. Unless something major had happened trains will usually never stable there at night or on weekends (not required) as to leave and enter the yard you would need to have a CSAQ (shunter) down there all the time which they in fact did in the old days. The main reason for no night stables is due to noise pollution just like in number 2 and 3 tunnel at North Sydney you can actually stable 4 - 8 car trains (2 per road) but they don't due to WHS and the fact some portion of the train would be outside the tunnel creating more noise pollution other than that great video and spot on.
I'm interested to know what the WHS issues and noise issues entail. 4 trains in the tunnels, 2 on the platforms, and 1 behind Waverton, would more than replace the current yard. The cost of just one apartment down there would surely pay for any required WHS upgrades.
Hi Taitset, great to see another video on a topic that isn't Melbourne-related, but can you make a video on Brisbane (my home city) I find the suburban rail interesting as there are some similiarities to Melbourne but some very obvious differences. (P.S. Please mention the Brisbane Metro atleast once since it is so confusing and shouldn't be called a 'metro'.)
Does anyone else find it shocking to see the number of SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES so close to the CBD. Makes you winder why we have a housing crisis. But I guess I'm also stating the obvious.
Close, but not particularly convenient. I'm an Uber driver, and I hate trying to get around that part of town. And none of them tip like the westies do. Good view, though.
I don't think single family houses "close" to the CBD is the reason for the housing crisis. The simple reason is the lack of overall planning for the growth in population. But throw in negative gearing (people need the value of their investment property to increase), and any number of other problems. A lot of areas around many stations in Sydney have recently been rezoned for high density - transport oriented development. Including on the North Shore Line.
@@JuliansTrainsandGames Yeah I think it's a shame the sleepers are going, but having said that the current arrangement doesn't make them very accessible anyway - there's only one sleeping car in each set, and they're well over double the cost of an economy ticket. Hopefully the seats on the new trains will be comfortable enough to spend the night in at least!
@Taitset the guardian released a story recently claiming they are considering refurbishing existing sleeper cars and slotting them in existing sets. Seems unlikely but the train has been booked out days in advance recently and night patronage is booming so who knows
@@aquacactuscheeseburger I did read that, I think a politician was put on the spot and said it 'might' be possible, and the journalist ran with it. I doubt it's an actual option.
This line has so much potential for tourists. There are so many rail enthusiasts in counties like Japan for example. It could be something akin to the Enoden Line in Kamakura Japan. I think linking it to Luna Park is a good idea, as well as running heritage trams.
love how unique the lavender bay line is. hopefully it stays but if they do decide to get rid of it, i hope it becomes a park with some rail left like what they did next to the powerhouse museum
My Aunt and Uncle owned Billy Blues cottage just near John's Street in the 1980s and I always wondered what that strange little train line was for. Billy Blue being the ex convict who ran the first ferry service across the harbour and who Blue's Point is named after. 🇦🇺
there’s probably room in the section of the right of way formerly occupied by the northern track for a pedestrian/cycle path between the secret garden and where the line runs alongside union st to be created without removing any still used rail infrastructure
I live in Adelaide - you just reminded me that we lost Luna Park to Sydney- Adelaide's Lunar Park was moved to Sydney and out onto of the site of the original Milton's Point station because our dumb laws prevented it from opening on weekends. By thecway I used to be volunteer at the Sydney Tram Museum when I used to live there - thanks for the reference
Ironic that Luna Park was moved to Sydney due to restrictive regulations, but was unable to operate at Milsons Point for many years due to noise complaints from local residents. They had a fair point I reckon, I wouldn't want someone to build an amusement park next door to me either. It was a foolish and vanity-driven choice of location that was always going to be problematic, when there were many suitable areas in outer Sydney that might have greatly benefited from the economic boost of such a project. Regarding the park itself, I found it to be overly expensive, crowded with tourists, and a rather underwhelming day out the last time I went (many years ago now). So you Adelaidians aren't missing much!
@sixstringedthing Luna Park was actually very much welcomed by those in Milsons Point when it opened in 1935! It was finally something that attracted people to go to the north side of the harbour as apparently the bridge had underwhelming traffic in its first few years... Problems with residents only really started occurring in the 1990s after the modern day apartments were built.
This line reminds me a lot of Long Island City station in New York, which was a major terminal until the East River Tunnels were built to allow the LIRR to run into Manhattan. The station was torn down and turned into sidings, but in the case of LIC, service to the station was never fully discontinued, and a handful of trains continue to serve the station from a single two-car long platform in the yard. I don't know if a similar idea could ever be successful here, obviously passenger service would require the junction at the north end to be reconfigured, but the comparison jumped out at me as I was watching. Great video though, and greetings from the US.
I first went down that line "in training" in 1978, last went down there around 2005, beautiful section of track, it's a wonder the high rise residents haven't complained about the "eyesore" and noise, as they have done with Luna Park demanding it be closed down. The "Weeds Train" needs to do a run on that line too. Great narration Martin and well explained, I enjoyed your production, well done.
if they wanted to do something, I think putting a lid over the stabling depot and putting some more theme park shit on that could be a good idea As for the rest of the line, you could just put a walking path NEXT to the train line, given that the only obstacle to that is a narrow bridge (two if you want to connect to Waverton station) it would be pretty simple. Rail to trail sucks, rail and trail is really cool If you think these people trying to convert an actively used stabling yard is bad, in America there's projects that have converted actual revenue service freight lines. And some if I remember correctly are trying to convert a operating tourist railroad to a trail, which is mildly worse than what Glenreagh Mountain Railway is attempting back home in aus with their non-functional tourist railway...
My friend who was a McMahon's Point local showed me how to get into the tunnels and walk along this rail line as a teenager 😬 trains coming past and everything 😵
One thing I’ve always wondered about this line is why they don’t run a passenger shuttle service on it, I mean it literally goes right to the front entrance of one of Sydney’s most famous tourist attractions, Luna park. I could be wrong but I’d imagine there’d be the demand for it if they stopped using the sidings
Pronounced "South Stain", and the restaurant was open at Darling Harbour for a number of years. Named after the beaches of Manly, and many of the beaches have given their names to other ferries.
Those nearby against the line and want to replace it with a park or residential buildings are themselves likely live near the North Shore line for the convenience of train services.
Thank you so much for that. As a Sydney train buff, and going to Luna park since the 60s, I always wondered why and how it come to be. I say keep it as a useful part of Sydneys history.
You could put some of the trains at St Leonards station. I think there would be room for 3 or 4. You might as well use the other 2 platforms at St Leonards.
You know what they could do with it?(apart from using it as a shunting line for storing trains) Light Rail transfer down to Lavender Bay, they have space on the line to re-build the 2nd line. Converting it in to parkland would be a waste in my opinion personally. As places that would want Light Rail that don't have space at all makes it quite tricky to build out tracks on land for it.
I like the linear park idea, but personly "if" that does go head. A compromise need to be done. Move the shunting yard from the current location to the Waverton Shunting Neck junction. Doing so would still allow for the required space for train storage, and would allow for most of the line to be converted over.
Love your idea of a tramway line to replace the siding. This would provide access to Sydneysiders (and tourists) to take advantage of the beautiful views of our marvelous city. Great video. Enjoyed it immensely ... well done !
It's certainly very underutilised at the moment, but it potentially might become used more again in the future if there's an uptick in broad gauge freight. I'm not really sure the long term plans are there.
I remember flying into Sydney specifically to ride the XPT back to Melbourne. An interesting rail network for sure. Next time I pop over there I'll have to check out these sidings.
If they got rid off the train line, it would be nice to have another tram museum in Sydney. Just add another track next to the existing one so you can more frequent service. Plus there is a station one end so you jump off the train and ride the tram on the same platform.
It's like you read my mind!! I've seen the historical photos of Milsons point and was literally just looking at this railway line on google maps a few days ago (amateur cartophile - sometimes our own city - what was and is now) I was wondering whether this particular line was still operational, then by sheer luck I come across your video haha. Cheers mate!
Thanks again. Another interesting video about something we would likely never know about. When I go to Sydney, I always consider the Cahill expressway and the Circular Quay railway viaduct. I can understand why they were constructed in their day, but is it the ugliest use of what could be such a beautiful part of Sydney? I realise below is a spaghetti junction of tunnels, but I hope this viaduct is one day not part of the Sydney skyline. It would be interesting to study the history , and the opposition to this viaduct at the time it was constructed.
I have seen artists impressions of the area with the viaduct removed, but the most likely outcome would be the Cahill Expressway being turned into a public park with some cafes (and possibly 1 lane of road for emergency vehicle use), and Circular Quay Station remaining in use. The difficulty with replacing Circular Quay Station with an underground station is with the steep grades getting the line down from Wynyard and St James. If it was easy, they would have just built an underground station there when they built the rest of the stations. Wynyard Station opened in 1932, and Circular Quay Station opened in 1956.
What a coincidence I was looking though some videos I took of Sydney and I found A set 33 just like the one in the video! It's only the 3rd Waratah I've been on too
Nice video mate, I work nearby so I frequently walk the whole line on my lunch break. It’s such a nice, unique spot. While I think the ‘high line’ idea would be very cool and would get a good amount of use, I appreciate the more practical need for such a unique piece of infrastructure like this. It’s not something that can just be dismissed.
Fantastic video, great subject to choose! I love that a "heritage" train line is actually still in daily useful use. And of course, love the dry humour even more, needed those laughs and useful reminder that trains can't fly or swim and love the super expensive graphics of the workers arriving and departing and returning to finally build the bridge =) Pity we can't afford to move into one of those places with the multi-million dollar views of the trains stabled below (oh, and the harbour too); normal people ARE weird! Cheers =D
I always thought they should tunnel under Wollstonecraft to connect St Leonards and Waverton directly without any long, bendy, slow, and noisy rail sections, cutting out Wollstonecraft station completely. I guess it’s not as necessary anymore with the new metro.
Thanks for the awesome video, I'm coming to Sydney soon and was wondering what other railway things I could do...found it now I how to get there wherever there is and I want to see the ferry I had lunch there in 2007 hopefully I can get a close up view of it and some trains
I am currently working on this sideing, over the next 2 weeks I am rebuilding the whole OHW system installing weights and eliminating the old rusty structures There are no plans from the inside to get rid of it
Hey Martin, I found your channel a few months ago and I am absolutely loving it. You are so relaxing to watch, your content is informative and fun too. It really give me a great joy. Thank you for what you do. Ps. I liked the outro to your tram video the other day with your brothers music playing in the background, that was very artistic. Pps. Do Perth, I'd love to see your take on this city
Thankyou, I'm very glad you're enjoying it! Definitely more of my brother's music to come, probably quite soon. I would love to do a Perth video, I've never actually been there but hope to fix that at some point!
Just wondering if you would know of any photos of the opening of this section. My great grandmother’s second husband took the contract to build it, and l lived in the old house adjacent to the station, till l was five.
That was a nostalgia trip! I used to live on Lavender Street, looking down on the yard, and I used to catch a red rattler to school from North Sydney Station. Looks so much better now the lantana's gone. Thanks Wendy 😉🌳
Great video! Could they cover the track so trains can still be stored and a new parkland built on top from Luna to the tunnel? That would seem best of both worlds.
The line is a bit short. A historic tram service might be possible, if you can get the local residents on side. At the moment, it is serving a useful purpose.
It would a shame to lose another relic of the past. Such things as old rail and tram alignments and gun placements are Sydney's Roman Walls. That this siding still has a purpose is a bonus.
I think you would be able to photograph a train through a roller coaster at the ekka in Brisbane with the exhibition line. Obviously that is only temporary tho.
I think they can build a roof over the stabling yard and build a park or some square, so its a win win for everyone rather than blatantly convert the line to a park.
Has anyone fought about putting a train station back down to Lavender bay because have you ever noticed how many residential apartments are they why don't they reinstate the railway line and have a train station at Lavender bay that directly connects the apartment complexes and the park to a brand new train station and also because the left railway line but on to Luna Park that means Luna Park could have its own railway station has anyone fought about that
Thank you very much for this. A commuter on the North Shore line for more years until I retired than I'll admit to, you've filled in with a lot of information I'd not come across before.
Thank you very much for an interesting video! I was looking through the map of the Sydney one day to find out the existence of the North Sydney Sidings and I was really curious about it. I strongly believe you explained out perfectly! I have question about it regarding the train spotting. I now know there will be three sets stabled at once, but does anybody knows about the services that terminates and stabled into this siding? I see that there are so many possible train services that would be stabled or depart from the siding. Moreover, is there any good known location to photograph the train coming into the siding? I believe it is a fantastic spot for unique train spotting photo and I will be really keen to visit there soon. Thanks.
You can work out which trains go down there by checking the timetable for the three North Sydney terminating trains after the morning peak. The first afternoon one comes out and forms the 15:05 at North Sydney, then there's another about half an hour later and the third at something like 16:50.
I notice in my travels and on your video that when electrified NSW obviously didn't use galvanised or painted steel for their overhead infrastructure as it is all rusty compared to the Melbourne electrification overhead which is not rusty. You can see a similar situation with the power pylon run from Victoria to Broken Hill as all the Pylons on the NSW side of the Murray are rusted.
I'm planning to visit Sydney in the coming days, and your video boosted my interest coming! I possibly might take a few photos of the siding from Luna Park, thanks for your video!
Thanks Martin. Very well done, informative and fun to hear pronunciation variations. E.g. South Stein rather than Stain, McMairns Point rather than McMarns (think of the PM), Kale Expressway rather than Karl. It's Newcassel vs Newcarsel all over again!😂
Was bound to happen haha, I haven't exactly chatted to many locals in those areas. ..Is that really how you pronounce Styene? Certainly wouldn't have guessed that one!
@@Taitset South Steyne is a beachfront area at the south of Manly after which the ferry is named and yes, it's pronounced like a stain in the water. Here's a definition I found. "A steyne can refer to a beach or seafront promenade, particularly in the context of British seaside towns. It is a place where people gather, enjoy leisure activities, and walk along the shore."
@@peterelvery Interesting, I'll be sure to get it right in the next one! (there is going to be some more ferry commentary in another video soon) I have actually walked along there, but obviously didn't hear any of the locals say it out loud haha
@@Taitset Manly Beach is divided into 3 sections - Queenscliff, North Steyne, and South Steyne (going from the north). Cronulla is worse (better?). For the long beach north of the rockpool - Boat Harbour, Greenhills Beach, Wanda Beach, Elouera Beach, North Cronulla Beach (from the north). So the south end of that beach is North Cronulla Beach - because there is a South Cronulla Beach south of the rockpool.
Wow, Martin invades Sydney! Fascinating, I had no idea about Lavender Bay’s railway sidings. Oh the irony that this piece of (apparently quite necessary) infrastructure’s best chance of surviving rests with NIMBYists wanting to preserve their views of Sydney Harbour! Love the brickwork etc being constructed to incorporate existing rocks. You can’t imagine that sort of thing happening now, can you.
Very interesting video - I had no idea there were some concepts to replace the section with a park either. All this reminds me that I really need to get back to Sydney again...
I travelled that route once in 2002 when I was a trainee signaller. On a side note, when did the Cahill Expressway start to be pronounced “cay-hill”? I’m 76 and always known it pronounced as the “Carl expressway”. I’ve heard it as “cay-hill” on radio, too.
@@Taitset There was/is an Aussie soccer play named "Cahill" and on radio/TV it's pronounced "Cay-hill". On modern pronunciation, I've noticed radio announcers giving new pronunciation to streets/roads/countries long known by a different pronunciation. For example, there is a local road (Mamre Rd) known for decades as "Mam-ree Rd" not being pronounced as "Mam-Ray Rd" - must be the French look of the word! Also, "Chilean" is now "chill-lay-en". I know a lady from Chile and she says "Chill-ee-an".
A slight clarification: While the yard can hold six trains, there are normally only three stabled there in the current timetable, and this is during the weekday off-peak only, not at night.
Some links about stuff mentioned in this video:
Transport Heritage NSW: www.thnsw.com.au/
Sydney Tramway Museum: www.sydneytramwaymuseum.com.au/
Official page for the High Line proposal: www.sydneyharbourhighline.org.au/
Wendy Whiteley's Secret Garden: www.wendyssecretgarden.org.au/
Enjoyed the video? Consider supporting the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset
I'm going to visit some of these places as per your recommendation
There used to be a really good cab view of Lavender Bay on Sydney Cab View Videos channel, but sadly all of his cab views have been taken down.
Is the next video releasing tommorow?
Great video Martin! I really appreciated you discussing why turning it into a high-line may not be the best idea, it's good to get an alternative take to those dismissing what they see as "old useless railways". Keen to see your future Sydney content!
I have a similar opinion towards the inner city rail infrastructure in Perth and Brisbane. It may not be the most ideal use of such land starting from scratch, but inner city rail infrastructure is incredibly beneficial to efficient operations and can only go in the places next to existing rail lines. Meanwhile, infill development and parkland can go anywhere there is derelict or underused land and infrastructure.
Even though Melbourne technically closed their inner city yards, they still have plenty of railway land to add infill sidings and infrastructure if they needed to.
@@Izib954 Perth's land use in the inner city is truly shocking, there are a stack of places you could start first before getting stuck into the rail land.
The capitalists' war on railways never ends. 😢
@@BigBlueMan118 Yeah, which is why I shudder everytime someone even hints at trying to "Bury more railways". The first one didn't exactly encourage as much development as planned, and didn't account for any network growth in its design either, including the Airport line which started construction before it finished.
Focus on all the derelict land and buildings, and the over built road corridors, before you start disrupting the infrastructure that moves the most people in and out of the city for developers, please & thanks.
@@Izib954 Yeah I would tend to agree, the highways entering into Perth are nuts and should be scaled back or capped over once the current batch of Metronet projects are open.
Can't wait for you to do "Perth's Scenic Sidings!"
So many to choose from, there's the one in a Freeway, the other one in a Freeway, the one next to a Ship Terminal, the new one in random Suburbia, the one in a Cutting, the one that's currently a dug up Construction Site... Oh, and that whole depot maintenance centre that's also inside a Freeway! 🙃
New to looking at Perth railway maps, where are these? Is the last one Claisebrook/nowergup/Mandurah?
Ha, I just said to do Perth too. You will get to see a freeway, a freeway, a freeway and another freeway :) Nah, we have few different thing to see and point out, its ever changing and also the history of the old diesel OJs and the trams that once were. I'd love to see Martins take on it
@@illiiilli24601 The freeway sidings are the Cockburn and Whitfords turnbacks; the ship terminal ones are at Fremantle station; New sidings in random suburbia are the new Airport line turnbacks at Claremont and the new one at Bayswater; In a cutting is the Victoria Park sidings for the Stadium; the construction site one is the one at Cannongton which is being rebuilt for the Inner Armadale lone Grade Separation; And the Depot in a Freeway is Nowergup.
Not included were Stowage sidings either side of Claisebrook depot; Fremantle line event turnback in front of Perth Station, the currently fairly defunct siding at Daglish which was originally for Subiaco Stadium events, and the other line-end sidings elsewhere, including Mandurah yards and the now demolished Armadale sidings.
@@illiiilli24601
Freeway sidings - Cockburn, Leederville & Whitfords turnbacks.
Next to Ship Terminal - Fremantle station sidings.
New one in suburbia - Both the new Claremont turnbacks for the Airport line, and the new Bayswater siding.
In a Cutting - Victoria Park sidings for Perth Stadium.
Construction Site - Cannington siding, currently being rebuilt for the Inner Armadale Line Level Crossing project.
Depot in a Freeway - Nowergup Depot, which actually predates the freeway.
Not Mentioned, The various Claisebrook yard sidings, the Fremantle line events turnback just east of Perth Station, the currently defunct Daglish sidings which were for the old Subiaco Oval events services, Other end-of-line sidings including Mandurah Yard, and the now demolished Armadale siding which let the Australind Bypass electric suburban trains.
Perth runs a very lean network that's 99.5% segregated from freight, so there's not many yards, sidings, and interesting layouts of note. Good for passengers, boring for enthusiasts.
My office overlooks Luna Park & Lavender Bay. I sometimes look down at those trains and wonder what they're doing there. Now, I know!
I walk through the Lavender Bay park pretty much every day. It's always fun to see a train. Anyone who thinks it's an 'unused track' needs to have his head read.
This is the sort of niche, detailed content I love about RUclips. Great video
Nothing beats going on the moon ranger at Luna Park just to see what trains are stored there. All be it you do get a bit sick.
I felt sick just looking at it!
@@TaitsetI find 10 times is the limit
Hey Taitset, ex - North Sydney Driver here just a small correction in terms of train operations even though the yard holds up to 6 trains we would only every stable 3 trains Mon-Fri and that was after the morning peak where we would then prep them in the afternoon and go out west. Unless something major had happened trains will usually never stable there at night or on weekends (not required) as to leave and enter the yard you would need to have a CSAQ (shunter) down there all the time which they in fact did in the old days. The main reason for no night stables is due to noise pollution just like in number 2 and 3 tunnel at North Sydney you can actually stable 4 - 8 car trains (2 per road) but they don't due to WHS and the fact some portion of the train would be outside the tunnel creating more noise pollution other than that great video and spot on.
I'm interested to know what the WHS issues and noise issues entail. 4 trains in the tunnels, 2 on the platforms, and 1 behind Waverton, would more than replace the current yard. The cost of just one apartment down there would surely pay for any required WHS upgrades.
@@PCLoadLetter part of it is the narrow clearances for crew members to access trains.
The noise is from the compressors / air con running
Thanks for the corrections, I'll add them to the pinned comment!
@@soph_the_great_Aus If the trains are stabled for the night , they wouldn't need o/h power or a/c.
@@stephenarbon2227 if I remember correctly it's a full stable with pans down so it's only the emergency lights and marker lights on.
Man sydney looks so difficult to design rail transport for.
Hi Taitset, great to see another video on a topic that isn't Melbourne-related, but can you make a video on Brisbane (my home city) I find the suburban rail interesting as there are some similiarities to Melbourne but some very obvious differences. (P.S. Please mention the Brisbane Metro atleast once since it is so confusing and shouldn't be called a 'metro'.)
I will eventually do some Brisbane videos, nothing planned in the short term though!
Does anyone else find it shocking to see the number of SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES so close to the CBD.
Makes you winder why we have a housing crisis.
But I guess I'm also stating the obvious.
Close, but not particularly convenient. I'm an Uber driver, and I hate trying to get around that part of town. And none of them tip like the westies do. Good view, though.
I don't think single family houses "close" to the CBD is the reason for the housing crisis. The simple reason is the lack of overall planning for the growth in population. But throw in negative gearing (people need the value of their investment property to increase), and any number of other problems. A lot of areas around many stations in Sydney have recently been rezoned for high density - transport oriented development. Including on the North Shore Line.
i am going to Sydney in a few days. By XPT!
Also, Balls Head lol
Most of this footage was brought back to Melbourne by XPT!
@@Taitset Do you think it is a good or bad idea to replace the XPTs. I personally think it is bad since the new trains have no sleepers.
@@JuliansTrainsandGames Yeah I think it's a shame the sleepers are going, but having said that the current arrangement doesn't make them very accessible anyway - there's only one sleeping car in each set, and they're well over double the cost of an economy ticket. Hopefully the seats on the new trains will be comfortable enough to spend the night in at least!
@Taitset the guardian released a story recently claiming they are considering refurbishing existing sleeper cars and slotting them in existing sets. Seems unlikely but the train has been booked out days in advance recently and night patronage is booming so who knows
@@aquacactuscheeseburger I did read that, I think a politician was put on the spot and said it 'might' be possible, and the journalist ran with it. I doubt it's an actual option.
This line has so much potential for tourists. There are so many rail enthusiasts in counties like Japan for example. It could be something akin to the Enoden Line in Kamakura Japan. I think linking it to Luna Park is a good idea, as well as running heritage trams.
Australian transit always looks like a love child between the UK & US.
love how unique the lavender bay line is. hopefully it stays but if they do decide to get rid of it, i hope it becomes a park with some rail left like what they did next to the powerhouse museum
My Aunt and Uncle owned Billy Blues cottage just near John's Street in the 1980s and I always wondered what that strange little train line was for.
Billy Blue being the ex convict who ran the first ferry service across the harbour and who Blue's Point is named after. 🇦🇺
I guess we now know what this channel would be called if you were from Sydney
Haha yes, 'Fset' wouldn't have had quite the same ring to it!
Looking forward to more of the Sydney content!
there’s probably room in the section of the right of way formerly occupied by the northern track for a pedestrian/cycle path between the secret garden and where the line runs alongside union st to be created without removing any still used rail infrastructure
It's good to see some more sydney content. 👍
I live in Adelaide - you just reminded me that we lost Luna Park to Sydney- Adelaide's Lunar Park was moved to Sydney and out onto of the site of the original Milton's Point station because our dumb laws prevented it from opening on weekends. By thecway I used to be volunteer at the Sydney Tram Museum when I used to live there - thanks for the reference
Ironic that Luna Park was moved to Sydney due to restrictive regulations, but was unable to operate at Milsons Point for many years due to noise complaints from local residents. They had a fair point I reckon, I wouldn't want someone to build an amusement park next door to me either. It was a foolish and vanity-driven choice of location that was always going to be problematic, when there were many suitable areas in outer Sydney that might have greatly benefited from the economic boost of such a project. Regarding the park itself, I found it to be overly expensive, crowded with tourists, and a rather underwhelming day out the last time I went (many years ago now). So you Adelaidians aren't missing much!
@sixstringedthing Luna Park was actually very much welcomed by those in Milsons Point when it opened in 1935! It was finally something that attracted people to go to the north side of the harbour as apparently the bridge had underwhelming traffic in its first few years... Problems with residents only really started occurring in the 1990s after the modern day apartments were built.
This line reminds me a lot of Long Island City station in New York, which was a major terminal until the East River Tunnels were built to allow the LIRR to run into Manhattan. The station was torn down and turned into sidings, but in the case of LIC, service to the station was never fully discontinued, and a handful of trains continue to serve the station from a single two-car long platform in the yard. I don't know if a similar idea could ever be successful here, obviously passenger service would require the junction at the north end to be reconfigured, but the comparison jumped out at me as I was watching. Great video though, and greetings from the US.
0:26 “this thing” -Martin Bennet-2024
I was on that V set tour! My (now ex-) wife >HATED< it! Shame we couldn’t see the new yard at Leppington that day.
I first went down that line "in training" in 1978, last went down there around 2005, beautiful section of track, it's a wonder the high rise residents haven't complained about the "eyesore" and noise, as they have done with Luna Park demanding it be closed down. The "Weeds Train" needs to do a run on that line too. Great narration Martin and well explained, I enjoyed your production, well done.
Huh, I always wondered what that track branching off from Waverton Station was for! Thanks for the history lesson ❤
if they wanted to do something, I think putting a lid over the stabling depot and putting some more theme park shit on that could be a good idea
As for the rest of the line, you could just put a walking path NEXT to the train line, given that the only obstacle to that is a narrow bridge (two if you want to connect to Waverton station) it would be pretty simple. Rail to trail sucks, rail and trail is really cool
If you think these people trying to convert an actively used stabling yard is bad, in America there's projects that have converted actual revenue service freight lines. And some if I remember correctly are trying to convert a operating tourist railroad to a trail, which is mildly worse than what Glenreagh Mountain Railway is attempting back home in aus with their non-functional tourist railway...
Wonderful video content. Well researched. Lovely pace.
Thankyou, glad you enjoyed it!
My friend who was a McMahon's Point local showed me how to get into the tunnels and walk along this rail line as a teenager 😬 trains coming past and everything 😵
One thing I’ve always wondered about this line is why they don’t run a passenger shuttle service on it, I mean it literally goes right to the front entrance of one of Sydney’s most famous tourist attractions, Luna park. I could be wrong but I’d imagine there’d be the demand for it if they stopped using the sidings
I stumbled across this when I went to Sydney. Sydney is beautiful city. This line should be kept as is.
Pronounced "South Stain", and the restaurant was open at Darling Harbour for a number of years. Named after the beaches of Manly, and many of the beaches have given their names to other ferries.
Just leave it as it is! It’s nice, quaint and has a purpose!
Maybe it could be a trolley shuttle to a new park but it’s useful for what it’s doing.
Gorilla gardening? Conjured a strange image until I googled it, but then I'm not an Australian...
That's Guerilla, not Gorilla😉
Those nearby against the line and want to replace it with a park or residential buildings are themselves likely live near the North Shore line for the convenience of train services.
Thank you so much for that. As a Sydney train buff, and going to Luna park since the 60s, I always wondered why and how it come to be. I say keep it as a useful part of Sydneys history.
Fascinating video. I didn't know the Lavender Bay sidings were that long or that it involved a tunnel!
You could put some of the trains at St Leonards station. I think there would be room for 3 or 4. You might as well use the other 2 platforms at St Leonards.
Always a good day when taitset posts
That was a great video Martin! Looking forward to more Sydney content!
I think the only other site you could potentially see a train through a roller coaster is at Dreamworld, but it would be a bit of a strain to catch it
Could one theoretically build parkland on top, making the line entirely underground? Best of both worlds although construction would be very difficult
Yeah I did wonder that, it might just be really expensive.
Great video
You know what they could do with it?(apart from using it as a shunting line for storing trains)
Light Rail transfer down to Lavender Bay, they have space on the line to re-build the 2nd line.
Converting it in to parkland would be a waste in my opinion personally.
As places that would want Light Rail that don't have space at all makes it quite tricky to build out tracks on land for it.
I like the linear park idea, but personly "if" that does go head. A compromise need to be done. Move the shunting yard from the current location to the Waverton Shunting Neck junction. Doing so would still allow for the required space for train storage, and would allow for most of the line to be converted over.
Love your idea of a tramway line to replace the siding. This would provide access to Sydneysiders (and tourists) to take advantage of the beautiful views of our marvelous city. Great video. Enjoyed it immensely ... well done !
On the topic of old infrastructure, do you know much about the Tottenham yard? Is it being used much or could it be put to better use?
It's certainly very underutilised at the moment, but it potentially might become used more again in the future if there's an uptick in broad gauge freight. I'm not really sure the long term plans are there.
I remember flying into Sydney specifically to ride the XPT back to Melbourne. An interesting rail network for sure. Next time I pop over there I'll have to check out these sidings.
If they got rid off the train line, it would be nice to have another tram museum in Sydney. Just add another track next to the existing one so you can more frequent service. Plus there is a station one end so you jump off the train and ride the tram on the same platform.
It's like you read my mind!! I've seen the historical photos of Milsons point and was literally just looking at this railway line on google maps a few days ago (amateur cartophile - sometimes our own city - what was and is now) I was wondering whether this particular line was still operational, then by sheer luck I come across your video haha. Cheers mate!
Thanks again. Another interesting video about something we would likely never know about. When I go to Sydney, I always consider the Cahill expressway and the Circular Quay railway viaduct. I can understand why they were constructed in their day, but is it the ugliest use of what could be such a beautiful part of Sydney? I realise below is a spaghetti junction of tunnels, but I hope this viaduct is one day not part of the Sydney skyline. It would be interesting to study the history , and the opposition to this viaduct at the time it was constructed.
I have seen artists impressions of the area with the viaduct removed, but the most likely outcome would be the Cahill Expressway being turned into a public park with some cafes (and possibly 1 lane of road for emergency vehicle use), and Circular Quay Station remaining in use. The difficulty with replacing Circular Quay Station with an underground station is with the steep grades getting the line down from Wynyard and St James. If it was easy, they would have just built an underground station there when they built the rest of the stations. Wynyard Station opened in 1932, and Circular Quay Station opened in 1956.
Great video, well done. However, Sydneysiders refer to the expressway as the ‘Carl’ expressway not ‘Kay hill’. Either way, it is awful.
What a coincidence I was looking though some videos I took of Sydney and I found A set 33 just like the one in the video! It's only the 3rd Waratah I've been on too
Nice video mate,
I work nearby so I frequently walk the whole line on my lunch break. It’s such a nice, unique spot.
While I think the ‘high line’ idea would be very cool and would get a good amount of use, I appreciate the more practical need for such a unique piece of infrastructure like this. It’s not something that can just be dismissed.
Good to know NIMBYs are not a uniquely American thing
Excellent video!
You taught me a lot about my own local weird train line I have passed a thousand and more times.
Thank you!
Fantastic video, great subject to choose! I love that a "heritage" train line is actually still in daily useful use.
And of course, love the dry humour even more, needed those laughs and useful reminder that trains can't fly or swim and love the super expensive graphics of the workers arriving and departing and returning to finally build the bridge =)
Pity we can't afford to move into one of those places with the multi-million dollar views of the trains stabled below (oh, and the harbour too); normal people ARE weird!
Cheers =D
Haha thankyou. I was quite pleased with that drawing of the workers. 🙂
I always thought they should tunnel under Wollstonecraft to connect St Leonards and Waverton directly without any long, bendy, slow, and noisy rail sections, cutting out Wollstonecraft station completely.
I guess it’s not as necessary anymore with the new metro.
Thanks for the awesome video, I'm coming to Sydney soon and was wondering what other railway things I could do...found it now I how to get there wherever there is and I want to see the ferry I had lunch there in 2007 hopefully I can get a close up view of it and some trains
Every time I’ve gone to Luna Park, I’ve always wondered why they have train stables at that location
I am currently working on this sideing, over the next 2 weeks I am rebuilding the whole OHW system installing weights and eliminating the old rusty structures
There are no plans from the inside to get rid of it
Hey Martin, I found your channel a few months ago and I am absolutely loving it. You are so relaxing to watch, your content is informative and fun too. It really give me a great joy. Thank you for what you do. Ps. I liked the outro to your tram video the other day with your brothers music playing in the background, that was very artistic. Pps. Do Perth, I'd love to see your take on this city
Thankyou, I'm very glad you're enjoying it! Definitely more of my brother's music to come, probably quite soon. I would love to do a Perth video, I've never actually been there but hope to fix that at some point!
Just wondering if you would know of any photos of the opening of this section. My great grandmother’s second husband took the contract to build it, and l lived in the old house adjacent to the station, till l was five.
That was a nostalgia trip! I used to live on Lavender Street, looking down on the yard, and I used to catch a red rattler to school from North Sydney Station. Looks so much better now the lantana's gone. Thanks Wendy 😉🌳
Great video! Could they cover the track so trains can still be stored and a new parkland built on top from Luna to the tunnel? That would seem best of both worlds.
Love it as always Martin!f
(balls)
it would make a great heritage line for historic electric trains
The line is a bit short. A historic tram service might be possible, if you can get the local residents on side. At the moment, it is serving a useful purpose.
Taitset 🤝 Aleister Crowley
being just a little bit too interested in Special Workings
I personally think they should just repurpose this train line into a tram one. Makes much more economically viable while retaining the heritage route
3:55 My grandad immigrated for Norway and was in construction, he told me that bricked in archway with iron bars is to lock up trolls
It would a shame to lose another relic of the past. Such things as old rail and tram alignments and gun placements are Sydney's Roman Walls. That this siding still has a purpose is a bonus.
I think you would be able to photograph a train through a roller coaster at the ekka in Brisbane with the exhibition line. Obviously that is only temporary tho.
The highline in NY is great, just it's in 2024 and NY is a ......hole
I think they can build a roof over the stabling yard and build a park or some square, so its a win win for everyone rather than blatantly convert the line to a park.
There was a fairly long period where due to vandalism trains were not stored at NSCS overnight.
Has anyone fought about putting a train station back down to Lavender bay because have you ever noticed how many residential apartments are they why don't they reinstate the railway line and have a train station at Lavender bay that directly connects the apartment complexes and the park to a brand new train station and also because the left railway line but on to Luna Park that means Luna Park could have its own railway station has anyone fought about that
Thank you very much for this. A commuter on the North Shore line for more years until I retired than I'll admit to, you've filled in with a lot of information I'd not come across before.
ah! when i was visiting sydney luna park i was wondering what was going on over there
I wonder if it would be feasible to build an underground stabling yard as part of a project to build a northern beaches line
Well it a nice place to show the new train to the media. When their have the first B set Waratah next to a late S set
I would like if they made Luna park station down there
So there’s a good chance I met you back on the S set tour!
Cool vid man,not long moved to syd,so looking for stuff like this
i never even realised that there was that random train track in lavender bay
Brilliant video. As always.
Thank you very much for an interesting video! I was looking through the map of the Sydney one day to find out the existence of the North Sydney Sidings and I was really curious about it. I strongly believe you explained out perfectly!
I have question about it regarding the train spotting. I now know there will be three sets stabled at once, but does anybody knows about the services that terminates and stabled into this siding? I see that there are so many possible train services that would be stabled or depart from the siding. Moreover, is there any good known location to photograph the train coming into the siding? I believe it is a fantastic spot for unique train spotting photo and I will be really keen to visit there soon. Thanks.
You can work out which trains go down there by checking the timetable for the three North Sydney terminating trains after the morning peak. The first afternoon one comes out and forms the 15:05 at North Sydney, then there's another about half an hour later and the third at something like 16:50.
I notice in my travels and on your video that when electrified NSW obviously didn't use galvanised or painted steel for their overhead infrastructure as it is all rusty compared to the Melbourne electrification overhead which is not rusty.
You can see a similar situation with the power pylon run from Victoria to Broken Hill as all the Pylons on the NSW side of the Murray are rusted.
The original Melbourne poles are rusty, it's only really the post-50s ones that aren't.
Great scenery, and the sea views were pretty cool too
Yay the Alexander ferry is in the video
It’s a shame they don’t offer rides on that line
They have not moved any in or out for a week....
You missed the bridge over commodore crescent- it's between woolcott and John sts. Thnx for the video.
Yes I only noticed that tiny bridge very late in production. :)
Beautiful area of Sydney
I'm planning to visit Sydney in the coming days, and your video boosted my interest coming! I possibly might take a few photos of the siding from Luna Park, thanks for your video!
Thanks Martin. Very well done, informative and fun to hear pronunciation variations.
E.g.
South Stein rather than Stain, McMairns Point rather than McMarns (think of the PM), Kale Expressway rather than Karl.
It's Newcassel vs Newcarsel all over again!😂
Was bound to happen haha, I haven't exactly chatted to many locals in those areas.
..Is that really how you pronounce Styene? Certainly wouldn't have guessed that one!
@@Taitset South Steyne is a beachfront area at the south of Manly after which the ferry is named and yes, it's pronounced like a stain in the water.
Here's a definition I found.
"A steyne can refer to a beach or seafront promenade, particularly in the context of British seaside towns. It is a place where people gather, enjoy leisure activities, and walk along the shore."
@@peterelvery Interesting, I'll be sure to get it right in the next one! (there is going to be some more ferry commentary in another video soon)
I have actually walked along there, but obviously didn't hear any of the locals say it out loud haha
@@Taitset Manly Beach is divided into 3 sections - Queenscliff, North Steyne, and South Steyne (going from the north). Cronulla is worse (better?). For the long beach north of the rockpool - Boat Harbour, Greenhills Beach, Wanda Beach, Elouera Beach, North Cronulla Beach (from the north). So the south end of that beach is North Cronulla Beach - because there is a South Cronulla Beach south of the rockpool.
@@Taitset I didn't know the meaning till I Iooked it up.
Because someone who owns $2M+ apartment doesn't ride the train...
How do you know?
Wow, Martin invades Sydney! Fascinating, I had no idea about Lavender Bay’s railway sidings.
Oh the irony that this piece of (apparently quite necessary) infrastructure’s best chance of surviving rests with NIMBYists wanting to preserve their views of Sydney Harbour!
Love the brickwork etc being constructed to incorporate existing rocks. You can’t imagine that sort of thing happening now, can you.
Very interesting video - I had no idea there were some concepts to replace the section with a park either.
All this reminds me that I really need to get back to Sydney again...
I travelled that route once in 2002 when I was a trainee signaller. On a side note, when did the Cahill Expressway start to be pronounced “cay-hill”? I’m 76 and always known it pronounced as the “Carl expressway”. I’ve heard it as “cay-hill” on radio, too.
As soon as this Melburnian said it out loud. :) The way I said it is just the logical phonetic pronunciation, without the local experience.
@@Taitset There was/is an Aussie soccer play named "Cahill" and on radio/TV it's pronounced "Cay-hill". On modern pronunciation, I've noticed radio announcers giving new pronunciation to streets/roads/countries long known by a different pronunciation. For example, there is a local road (Mamre Rd) known for decades as "Mam-ree Rd" not being pronounced as "Mam-Ray Rd" - must be the French look of the word! Also, "Chilean" is now "chill-lay-en". I know a lady from Chile and she says "Chill-ee-an".