"Liveliness - Your damage over time effects deal their damage 25% faster, and your healing over time effects heal 5% faster." pretty sure it doesn't say "In x% less time" like circle talent does. meaning you don't lose duration, so it's actually a buff.
I haven't had much time to test this yet on the PTR, but I think you're exactly right! Apologies for misreading that, and thank you for the correction!
the problem with trying to equalize mana is that each healer is build differently such that some healers can TRADE mana for more healing and specifically more on demand healing, but with paladin for example, everything is on a cooldown and you have a secondary resource already so it doesnt work properly as you kindve just lose mana over time by pressing normal rotational buttons so in order to "save" mana you simply stop playing the game.
Yeah I 100% agree! I do think most of the reason they nerfed the mana return of daybreak IS because of the 4 piece. Having it up more often will lead to more mana, so bringing it down a bit is natural. However the 1/3 nerf to mana return does still outweigh the 1/4 cdr
Yeah it was always one of my favorite abilities when I mained druid, but I do like the more steady throughput approach! Its just hard for that to be a niche since burst damage is what you find in raids
Appreciate it lol, but how so? I mained rdruid for a very long time. All I really said here is that power is taken from flourish and spread into your hots, tree, and grove guardians. Was it something else I said?
!PTR Setp 12 update! Amirdrassil, the Dream’s Hope (2) Set Bonus - No longer applies Chi Harmony on Renewing Mist’s jumps. Rip...f! How are they are ok with having refresh limits on Rising Mist effect but they can't bother putting a limit on this to keep it balanced instead of completely removing the effect, Blizzard, again, wtf. I know i know, they want for "choices to matter" well, then create ones that do Blizz. For reference so people don't have to jump 300 other sites to find it, so they can make a direct comparison: (2) Set Bonus: Renewing Mist and its jumps apply Chi Harmony, increasing its targets healing taken from you by 50% for 8 seconds. (4) Set Bonus: 15% of all healing you do to targets with Chi Harmony is stored and then dispersed evenly among your allies with Renewing Mist when Chi Harmony fades or is refreshed.
Honestly, after thinking about the Mistweaver 4 piece a bit i don't actually think its gonna be "op" in m+... im taking bestow faith (sadly a removed holy paladin talent from shadowlands and early df) as a reference here. I played with it for a long time because i loved its functionality: u put it ok someone and after 5 seconds a big heal pops and you get some holy power. Most of the time the only benefit i got from it was the holy power since waiting 5 seconds to get someone healed up isn't an option because they can get oneshot in the meantime, so you propably end up healing them some other way. If u apply that on the Mistweaver tierset i feel like its gonna be a heal that you will struggle to keep track on when and how much its gonna heal the grp so you also will end up healing ppl up front wasting the 4piece heal into overheal... am i wrong? What do you guys think? Maby because it will pop more frequently it will be more like a smoothing factor for the grp kinda like other hots are 🤔... idk i just feel like it will need a pretty strong confidence level to let ppl stay on 60-80% life and rely on hots and 4piece pops and not fully heal ppl upfron out of panic 😅
It is also applied when Chi Harmony is refreshed, which means when you add a Renewing Mist to a person, not just when it fades. And you typically add Renewing Mist when someone is low health.
Also: I think it'd more a passive set where you dont play around that much. Harmonys will explide prerty asynchronely as you dont apply all of them at once to the group. So there is every 1-2 seconds a harmony explosion from "someone" which heal chip damage up to the group. Its less a "omg it saved my life" than rather a small help. For fights like second boss vortex this is insane. As mostly no heal will be wasted as everyone gets constant damage. Same for 3rd in HoI. For more bursty phases, it can also help. As you burst more = harmony bursts more. Which then loweres the overall healing YOU need to provide so you can faster swap back to normal rotation, and also, have less often swap to push healing. With time you also get used to it where the new "danger zone" is when you have to swap
If I’m not mistaken it stores overhealing which is mostly passive heals anyway because most MW heals are aoe in some form. It’s just a good way to redistribute our overhealing into some usable heals hopefully.
I have been shaman for all of this expansion. I loved the playing style. But these changes might be making less fun. Might be thinking of changing to something else.
I've actually heard a lot of great things, but also a lot of bad things. I think the tierset is very good, but the rest of the changes offset it pretty hard!
Don't sleep on Prevoker in raid. Rewind, Dreambreath, and Dreamflight weren't nerfed, and Spiritbloom was buffed. I think overall they maybe are getting slightly nerfed, but Emerald Blossom build is very strong in raid, when the raid is stacked and not at 100% health.
Prevoker is still a pretty powerful spec, even in m+, it just that alot of them rerolled to either hpal or augvoker honestly, but its probably a solid A tier for both raid and m+
Yeah If this were a tier list they would be pretty high still because those big abilities weren't nerfed, but when ranking how much they actually moved in power level I don't think it was all that much! I would love to be proven wrong though! I love seeing prevokers in raid!
The point system is not very meaningful without comparison. I am excited about MW too but let's be realistic about the shortcomings of the spec. Fun factor 9/10, but without partywide defensive cooldowns or lust its always going to be just okay.
If you watched the world first raidera stream, they actually rated MW as the top spec for the next tier as of right now. It's looking incredible and hopefully isn't gutted into the ground before it goes live.
Yeah I mean it fills a throughput role very well though, not needing major defensives. Also I COULD make another tierlist actually comparing each healer to eachother, but I like this format to go alongside the other tierlists so you can compare your class to yourself!
do i see a Discipline Fan here yes i do, Hpal will be still be on top of the healing Power, utility is crazy, and not to mention their survivability. Discipline priest is not even close to the strength of Hpal.
Okay you've misunderstood the Resto Shaman tier set, you said you CH (for a start we won't be using chain heal anymore come this patch as it costs too much mana and does too little healing) onto the tank and hope it bounces to the lowest health target. No it only applies to the initial target, even says that in the wording of the set bonus. But we won't be using CH as mentioned. Also the P-Wave change according to Theun is a 10% nerf even with the buffs to healing wave. Cutting CBT by 1/3 was disgusting and not required. They have no idea how over the top that nerf was. "Ascendance was a lot of Shamans favourite button to press" Ehhhhh nope, never heard one of us say that. It was 1) Popping a phat juicy 1mill + CBT (2) Wellspring (pre nerf) (3) Well timed P-Wave >>>>>>>>>Rest. AG would slot in behind or equal to Wellspring pre nerf for both of them. But your Raid Rating, M+ rating and Fun rating are almost spot on. But it looks like current tier is even less powerful than our old tier set for m+ too. If you know a damage patten and drop your HR as the damage happens that's a 40-50k heal on everyone with riptide. This new one is weaksauce.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by that. You chain heal the tank to apply toerset to them, as it would get most value, then hope that the chain heal bounces to people that need healing. But I do agree, chain heal whlas a bad example since it's a meme lol!
With regards to RShaman, look up the following skills. and think about them now with the changes in mind FlashFlood, Ancestral Awakening, Improved Earthliving weapon, Undercurrent. .. HealingWave will become BiS becaue of the mana cost.
I really don’t understand how you missed the biggest problem with disc? Shadow covenant is triggered by shadowfiend/mindbender. And your 4set is triggered by shadow covenant. But there is a VERY big difference in shadowfiend (flat 3min cd) and shadowfiend (1 min cd + build in cdr, which currently averages out to about 30 sec cd with proper play). So if you wanna play shadow covenant and have any use of your 4-set, you have to take mindbender. If you take mindbender, you cant really pick the new talent and its cdr’s etc. not to mention youre absolutely missing out on aegis if you try to take the new talent. So this forces players to pick mindbender (which i prefer) but i dont like that the spec is now locked to it. And you said holy paladins “fun factor” was low because they didn’t get “flashy” changes like other specs. Are you forgetting that they were completely reworked this season? Do you expect them to be reworked every patch? Btw look at s1 healer leaderboard for m+. Every single healer was evenly represented. Guess how many of top 100 healers were anything other than holy paladin in s2? Last I checked, it was 3. And something like 960/1000 top healers were hpaladins. The only changes they need are nerfs, which theyve gotten. Their playstyle is very nice, they just need some tweaks.
Its not a "how fun is this spec." It's how much did their "fun factor" change from 10.1.7 to 10.2. So I'm not looking at every past rework they've had, I'm just looking at how much they changed coming into 10.2, and I don't think paladin became way more fun in 10.2
As much as MW gain power this season it's boring to see 0 change in our gameplay again. We keep having tier sets that are just passive healing boost with 0 impact on gameplay it's just sad. Meanwhile other specs like both of the priests have some shakeup every season with their sets.
the symbol of hope changes are kinda bad. The 20 second nerf isn’t super impactful if you’re still running 2 hpriests; it almost incentivizes running 2 now. They should just get rid of the mechanic.
It's just a very versatile raid cooldown! Like granting mana to healers and resetting defensive cds is a very cool ability, I think in its current state it was under the spotlight a lot so people wanted it nerfed, but I hope this is the end of how much they nerf it! I still want to see it as a mainstay because of how cool of a concept it is!
As a main Prevoker, im hopeful on the changes, the sphere nerf kinda piss me off, but i still need to see the tier performance (no ptr for me) to see if it can make up for all the echos we are lossing, also our AoE healing remains almost unchanged, and our CD are as powerful as this season, so we are on a better spot for emerald blossom builds.
@@erichall090909 idk, i have yet to try it, but the 4 set still have its strength, it will depend on how consistent the echoes procc, also i need to check if the extra echoes counts towards ouroboros stacks.
Grove Guardian healing isn't being increased by 30% for druid, that's Grove Tending, which is a talent that makes your Swiftmend leave a HoT on the target Circle of Life and Death was 15% faster HoTs, not 25% All Druids always took Flourish in M+ and raid ALL THE TIME, Not a single druid never took that talent unless they didn't know their spec. Also, mistweaver was never the ramp healer, only Disc Priest and Rdruid have always been ramp healers. Mistweaver has only become a ramp healer since shadowlands
i main resto shaman and i dont really play anything else since i love resto but these changes and how poorly designed the tier set is...im just going to cancel my sub and come back next xpack depending on the state of resto shaman. They finally buffed us after ignoring rsham all of SL and then now they are going back in and removing all the buffs they gave us this xpack and set us back 4 years now. The issue with single target healing is the mana cost, surge is 12.5k for a fast spot heal but healing wave is just way to slow to be effective.
Yeah I think the tier set is surpising me with how strong it is, but I do feel what OP is saying. Other than the tier sets power, shaman didnt gain much newness gameplay wise!
@@LBNinja7 well for people who have only played chain heal builds this season there gameplay is going to change completely as we likely won’t be using that ability at all. I don’t love all the changes but as long as we’re competitive we will adapt.
I am such a huge fan of resto shaman in raid so I hope the rumors about the tierset are true!! I think my raid group will also have a shaman in its healing comp as well!@@Literofcola77
@LBNinja7 yeah bro, like I've played every build since SL and I parse 95% or higher and 10.2 is removing every buff we have had till before I came back to the game...just feels like we are constantly getting forgotten and 💩 on. I do alot of m+ but my main thing is raiding and its what I really love doing but when I need to parse 95 to 98% to keep up with a holy pally and other healers who parse 55-65% 😔😔😔 it makes it hard to enjoy the game
How happy you seem for the H Pal and Holy Priests really turns me off to your channel. It’s Blizz back to throwing out blanket nerfs rather than bring up classes lagging behind. And more homogenization such as “we all should have equal mana problems.” God forbid classes have different flavors.
I mean I can't stop you there, but I will say that I am not happy about these changes, was just pointing out that blizzard said they were going to make mana more of a resource and those are two of the classes where it wasn't an issue. I am just a very happy person generally even when I read bad news lol, I don't want it to be mistaken as happy about the bad news!
Grove guardian is another ability on a class with too many abilities. Coupled with the destruction of flourish, means I'll not play rdroo for the first time in forever.
I actually do think it has a great shot now with this tierset. SOOOO much aoe healing for actual free, that will allow mw to just keep spinning and doing a ton of damage for a healer. It'll be interesting to see, but i do think there's a shot.
I see they made most exciting changes for least played specs in raid: disc and MW and they probably still blast aoe healing in raid. Im MW main but I hate those changes for druid I have druid alt. Those changes are good for m+ druid is currently clunkiest m+ healer. But I dont get Idea of nerfing flurish and rejuv spread while they giving druid this nuorish tier set which benifits of ur hot amount. Basically have no idea how will druid play next patch in raid.
I think it was just too focused on massive ramps in s2, and they want it like how it played in s3 where tranq is your main cd, but outside of tranq you just keep rejuvs on people
@@LBNinja7 'Fixing' the ramps without actually giving us something to heal inbetween the crazy spikes is a bad idea tho. I can't see them nerfing the throughput of the healers anywhere in the notes, so the need for the spiky damage persists. How is it gonna play out?
@@INTlyoshik I miss the times when it was enough for one rdruid to top everyone with tranq during big hits to save every other healer's mana. Back when mana and healer teamplay mattered. Everyone had their spot to shine. No need for sniping. Felt amazing.
as a prevoker i dont really see the issue with the sphere nerf, honestly doesnt change much at all and if you look at the set and the the other buffs we got i think we end up ontop tbh
It'll be fun watching how the raid build evolves, but I think every time they shave power off of the button it makes me wonder at what point it becomes not worth it to press
I had a Resto Druid alt playing on the side and just decided to give it a spin gearing it alongside MW ripping M+ keys since my one of my other main(yes i main 2 chars none is of these are alts, that's how i see it, HPriest and MW Monk). HPriest was becoming bad patch by patch in M+ and compared to the rest the changes and the tier set are nothing of use, PoM tier sucked very badly expect in Raid it did something but in M+ it was borderline useless. Testing the Grove Guardians for RDruid rn in M+, it's a nice spell but like with Nourish itself you have to prepare the HoTs on the targets for it to even basically work like normal Nourish as if would if you cast it on your own, and since you have 3 charges you have to manage on your own, the spell itself makes sense to be in the RDruid healing toolkit, the army of the small trees addition on I:ToL is nice as well. Ngl Disc changes looks amazing, MW aren't half bad either (i really hope they make something with Zen Flight at some point, i know i know, but i like that spell that nobody uses and can't use in DrIsles or you wouldn't want to anywhere else 'cause it's not faster than mounts, just mentioning it so no one forgets about it, mostly xD would be cool if they did something in combat with it, still i love that ability). I have to find time to attempt to gear up the Resto Sham and my Prevoker as well, especially M+ which with RSham i haven't touched at all just LFR. Got an HPala too but it never "felt" rewarding enough to play before or after the rework, i don't know why but it's missing something for me, like, i can't find challenging tbh.
Hpala are amazing, coming from resto druid main. Hpala heal and dmg rotation feels super rewarding, and them we got the dps & defensive cooldowns. Not a boring second. Super good rework IMO.
It's funny you say that with a Resto Sham icon. We said "It's fine theres months to go in beta before launch". We said "It's fine they are bound to see us struggling" after launch. We said "It's fine the next round of changes will be for us" after that. Then we did get changes and they gutted wellspring out of nowhere and buffed chain heal to the stars, for two whole weeks. Then they knocked us straight back down to last and 2nd last place for Mythic healing. Then we said "It's fine there's months to go and we'll get changes in 10.1. Then we said "It's fine we'll get changes in 10.1.5. Then we said "It's fine they are bound to change our stuff in 10.1.7. And now here we are finally with you saying it's fine there are 2 months, there's bound to be changes by then. If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
hear me out pal is gonna be more broken than ever. You can add additional glimmers of light ... Crazy. Ok now you can have 3 holy shocks that hit 3 times. ok crazy- combine THAT. 3 Holy shocks hitting sth on 1 button press when you have additional glimmers...... wow and the casts got buffed by a third.... holy is gonna beat records next season. Heard it here first
Oh boy this take was piping hot!! Lol, I do think the 2pc is incredible, however the rest of the changes are lackluster imo. I'm excited to see how it holds up, but I don't think itll hold a candle to s2 pally!
And this is how paladin always get fucked over... 2 months of fun and than we get destroyed and nerfed again... Because of people calling for nerfs. Especially people who stream and make videos like this. Its just bullshit how people always get blizzard to over nerf and break paladins... With the retri the same... We asked for less dps but keep the survival and utitility power... What does blizz doe nerf our utility, than our defensive and than our burst, buit the first 2 nerf was because of our burst power... Now they nerfed that and never gave us back some of utility power and defensives... That is the issue with everyone always crying when paladins get something... Always gets us overnerfed afterwards. Today I was bursting a Survival hunter in pvp. I had like 70k DPS on him and he bursted me down with 35k dps... So our damage is just mostly aoe and not really single and he could survive more than me which is funny...
In my opinion, they probably didn't want to mess with hpal too much since this new tierset will be pretty impactful. I expect some numbers to change pretty soon though once they find their footing.
@@driiifter Yeah Paladin was superfine haha 1 whole season. They had almost no one playing it because they major mana issues. And now their mana got nerfed again and we get buffs on a cast playstyle haha. While having 1 school of magic. the moment you silence a paladin. He has nothing to press lol.
@@Butzitube It aint that insanely powerfull anymore. Yeah they become way stronger, but other healers got buffed aswell and paladin got nerfed. People just do not know how to play against a holy paladin. They are easy to get out of of position and once you silence a paladin he is kinda doing nothing for 4 seconds.
Always look forward to watching your content! I watch other WoW content creators but your stuff is always top tier and my favorite.
I really appreciate that!! This comment made my day!!
Love this longer form content! Keep it up!
Great to hear and will do!!
"Liveliness - Your damage over time effects deal their damage 25% faster, and your healing over time effects heal 5% faster." pretty sure it doesn't say "In x% less time" like circle talent does. meaning you don't lose duration, so it's actually a buff.
I haven't had much time to test this yet on the PTR, but I think you're exactly right! Apologies for misreading that, and thank you for the correction!
Thanks for all your work ! Your content is really great and fun to watch, for every healer main and not only mistweavers!
I really appreciate it!!! I try my hardest to enjoy everything there is to enjoy about the game, and also try to spread that positivity!!
Rip to all my resto shaman brothers
Resto is absolutely broken on ptr 😂😂😂 they are gonna need to rebalance the 4 set.
@@Literofcola77 lol I love your name 🤣 I'm gonna have to hop on and check it out when I get home from work today then
@@Literofcola77 rshaman is op???? Or Druid?? I’m ptr?
@@Savartarus resto shaman, the 4 set with haste crit gear is blasting
the problem with trying to equalize mana is that each healer is build differently such that some healers can TRADE mana for more healing and specifically more on demand healing, but with paladin for example, everything is on a cooldown and you have a secondary resource already so it doesnt work properly as you kindve just lose mana over time by pressing normal rotational buttons so in order to "save" mana you simply stop playing the game.
Yeah I 100% agree! I do think most of the reason they nerfed the mana return of daybreak IS because of the 4 piece. Having it up more often will lead to more mana, so bringing it down a bit is natural. However the 1/3 nerf to mana return does still outweigh the 1/4 cdr
So gutted about flourish.
Yeah it was always one of my favorite abilities when I mained druid, but I do like the more steady throughput approach! Its just hard for that to be a niche since burst damage is what you find in raids
I’m sorry dude, you are a nice guy but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with regards to resto Druid
Appreciate it lol, but how so? I mained rdruid for a very long time. All I really said here is that power is taken from flourish and spread into your hots, tree, and grove guardians. Was it something else I said?
RShaman Tier is incredibly OP atm and as of this post you literally wont ever press chain heal.
ooo very interesting. I guess as long as you're spot healing you'll be leaving behind the buff on everyone, so I could totally see that!
!PTR Setp 12 update!
Amirdrassil, the Dream’s Hope
(2) Set Bonus - No longer applies Chi Harmony on Renewing Mist’s jumps.
Rip...f! How are they are ok with having refresh limits on Rising Mist effect but they can't bother putting a limit on this to keep it balanced instead of completely removing the effect, Blizzard, again, wtf.
I know i know, they want for "choices to matter" well, then create ones that do Blizz.
For reference so people don't have to jump 300 other sites to find it, so they can make a direct comparison:
(2) Set Bonus: Renewing Mist and its jumps apply Chi Harmony, increasing its targets healing taken from you by 50% for 8 seconds.
(4) Set Bonus: 15% of all healing you do to targets with Chi Harmony is stored and then dispersed evenly among your allies with Renewing Mist when Chi Harmony fades or is refreshed.
Honestly, after thinking about the Mistweaver 4 piece a bit i don't actually think its gonna be "op" in m+... im taking bestow faith (sadly a removed holy paladin talent from shadowlands and early df) as a reference here. I played with it for a long time because i loved its functionality: u put it ok someone and after 5 seconds a big heal pops and you get some holy power. Most of the time the only benefit i got from it was the holy power since waiting 5 seconds to get someone healed up isn't an option because they can get oneshot in the meantime, so you propably end up healing them some other way.
If u apply that on the Mistweaver tierset i feel like its gonna be a heal that you will struggle to keep track on when and how much its gonna heal the grp so you also will end up healing ppl up front wasting the 4piece heal into overheal... am i wrong? What do you guys think?
Maby because it will pop more frequently it will be more like a smoothing factor for the grp kinda like other hots are 🤔... idk i just feel like it will need a pretty strong confidence level to let ppl stay on 60-80% life and rely on hots and 4piece pops and not fully heal ppl upfron out of panic 😅
It is also applied when Chi Harmony is refreshed, which means when you add a Renewing Mist to a person, not just when it fades. And you typically add Renewing Mist when someone is low health.
Also: I think it'd more a passive set where you dont play around that much. Harmonys will explide prerty asynchronely as you dont apply all of them at once to the group. So there is every 1-2 seconds a harmony explosion from "someone" which heal chip damage up to the group. Its less a "omg it saved my life" than rather a small help. For fights like second boss vortex this is insane. As mostly no heal will be wasted as everyone gets constant damage. Same for 3rd in HoI. For more bursty phases, it can also help. As you burst more = harmony bursts more. Which then loweres the overall healing YOU need to provide so you can faster swap back to normal rotation, and also, have less often swap to push healing. With time you also get used to it where the new "danger zone" is when you have to swap
Yeah I don't think it will blast heals, but be more like the druid ability where on boss fights its just one more thing helping you top the group up!
If I’m not mistaken it stores overhealing which is mostly passive heals anyway because most MW heals are aoe in some form. It’s just a good way to redistribute our overhealing into some usable heals hopefully.
I have been shaman for all of this expansion. I loved the playing style. But these changes might be making less fun. Might be thinking of changing to something else.
I've actually heard a lot of great things, but also a lot of bad things. I think the tierset is very good, but the rest of the changes offset it pretty hard!
Don't sleep on Prevoker in raid. Rewind, Dreambreath, and Dreamflight weren't nerfed, and Spiritbloom was buffed. I think overall they maybe are getting slightly nerfed, but Emerald Blossom build is very strong in raid, when the raid is stacked and not at 100% health.
“When stacked” is super annoying design imo. I stopped playing my Shaman forever ago when that used to be their niche.
Prevoker is still a pretty powerful spec, even in m+, it just that alot of them rerolled to either hpal or augvoker honestly, but its probably a solid A tier for both raid and m+
yeah itll be very strong in raid. like really strong.. just a different talent build than it used to.
Yeah If this were a tier list they would be pretty high still because those big abilities weren't nerfed, but when ranking how much they actually moved in power level I don't think it was all that much! I would love to be proven wrong though! I love seeing prevokers in raid!
I mained holy pally in season 2 but I might go back to restro druid or priest , ty for video
Of course! Also, not a bad idea! Pally got the blizzard treatment s2 but those two classes are definitely getting it s3!
The point system is not very meaningful without comparison. I am excited about MW too but let's be realistic about the shortcomings of the spec. Fun factor 9/10, but without partywide defensive cooldowns or lust its always going to be just okay.
If you watched the world first raidera stream, they actually rated MW as the top spec for the next tier as of right now. It's looking incredible and hopefully isn't gutted into the ground before it goes live.
Agreed. Symbol of hope, barrier and AM just saves raid group from wipe.
fingers crossed! you mean limitmax? MW will be good in raid, I agree!
Yeah I mean it fills a throughput role very well though, not needing major defensives. Also I COULD make another tierlist actually comparing each healer to eachother, but I like this format to go alongside the other tierlists so you can compare your class to yourself!
do i see a Discipline Fan here yes i do, Hpal will be still be on top of the healing Power, utility is crazy, and not to mention their survivability. Discipline priest is not even close to the strength of Hpal.
Yeah these were all predictions from the first round of announcements, before changes and testing periods!
Okay you've misunderstood the Resto Shaman tier set, you said you CH (for a start we won't be using chain heal anymore come this patch as it costs too much mana and does too little healing) onto the tank and hope it bounces to the lowest health target. No it only applies to the initial target, even says that in the wording of the set bonus. But we won't be using CH as mentioned.
Also the P-Wave change according to Theun is a 10% nerf even with the buffs to healing wave. Cutting CBT by 1/3 was disgusting and not required. They have no idea how over the top that nerf was.
"Ascendance was a lot of Shamans favourite button to press" Ehhhhh nope, never heard one of us say that. It was 1) Popping a phat juicy 1mill + CBT (2) Wellspring (pre nerf) (3) Well timed P-Wave >>>>>>>>>Rest. AG would slot in behind or equal to Wellspring pre nerf for both of them.
But your Raid Rating, M+ rating and Fun rating are almost spot on. But it looks like current tier is even less powerful than our old tier set for m+ too. If you know a damage patten and drop your HR as the damage happens that's a 40-50k heal on everyone with riptide. This new one is weaksauce.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by that. You chain heal the tank to apply toerset to them, as it would get most value, then hope that the chain heal bounces to people that need healing.
But I do agree, chain heal whlas a bad example since it's a meme lol!
Funny how we all say Ultimate Penance when it's written Ultimate Penitence :D
Wait fr? I feel like an idiot lol!
@@LBNinja7 Don't beat yourself too hard, i also say Ultimate Penance, because that's what it is 😅
the prevoker 4 set doesnt so much and right now its unlikely we even run it. but the 2 set is absurdly powerful for raid
I think they still would run it, since its just free power, but I do feel you on that!
@@LBNinja7 more likely we run 2 and 2. Would be alot more power than the 4 set. But I think they will adjust it we got lots of time for balancing
As a main resto shaman, this Xpack is making me wanna quit everyday, it's awful
Yeah I feel like they are still punishing you for shadowlands lol.
With regards to RShaman, look up the following skills. and think about them now with the changes in mind
FlashFlood, Ancestral Awakening, Improved Earthliving weapon, Undercurrent.
.. HealingWave will become BiS becaue of the mana cost.
Think we'll start going for more haste instead of crit because of this?
@@bloodculprit111 ancestral awakening works best with CRIT, regardless, we have endless secondary right now, and we are about to get more. Lol
Yes Paladin isn't getting many changes, but 10.1.5 rework was still amazing. I think that is why it isn't getting a lot of changes.
I really don’t understand how you missed the biggest problem with disc?
Shadow covenant is triggered by shadowfiend/mindbender. And your 4set is triggered by shadow covenant.
But there is a VERY big difference in shadowfiend (flat 3min cd) and shadowfiend (1 min cd + build in cdr, which currently averages out to about 30 sec cd with proper play).
So if you wanna play shadow covenant and have any use of your 4-set, you have to take mindbender. If you take mindbender, you cant really pick the new talent and its cdr’s etc. not to mention youre absolutely missing out on aegis if you try to take the new talent.
So this forces players to pick mindbender (which i prefer) but i dont like that the spec is now locked to it.
And you said holy paladins “fun factor” was low because they didn’t get “flashy” changes like other specs. Are you forgetting that they were completely reworked this season? Do you expect them to be reworked every patch?
Btw look at s1 healer leaderboard for m+. Every single healer was evenly represented.
Guess how many of top 100 healers were anything other than holy paladin in s2? Last I checked, it was 3.
And something like 960/1000 top healers were hpaladins.
The only changes they need are nerfs, which theyve gotten. Their playstyle is very nice, they just need some tweaks.
Its not a "how fun is this spec." It's how much did their "fun factor" change from 10.1.7 to 10.2. So I'm not looking at every past rework they've had, I'm just looking at how much they changed coming into 10.2, and I don't think paladin became way more fun in 10.2
As much as MW gain power this season it's boring to see 0 change in our gameplay again. We keep having tier sets that are just passive healing boost with 0 impact on gameplay it's just sad. Meanwhile other specs like both of the priests have some shakeup every season with their sets.
Yeah I 100% agree. They are so focused on bringing our power level up, but forget about making it a fun playstyle!
the symbol of hope changes are kinda bad. The 20 second nerf isn’t super impactful if you’re still running 2 hpriests; it almost incentivizes running 2 now. They should just get rid of the mechanic.
It's just a very versatile raid cooldown! Like granting mana to healers and resetting defensive cds is a very cool ability, I think in its current state it was under the spotlight a lot so people wanted it nerfed, but I hope this is the end of how much they nerf it! I still want to see it as a mainstay because of how cool of a concept it is!
As a main Prevoker, im hopeful on the changes, the sphere nerf kinda piss me off, but i still need to see the tier performance (no ptr for me) to see if it can make up for all the echos we are lossing, also our AoE healing remains almost unchanged, and our CD are as powerful as this season, so we are on a better spot for emerald blossom builds.
yeah our new set is even more powerful for blossom. we def going Noz teachings in raid resonanting spehere is dead
as of right now we likely run 2 and 2 tier sets i assume our 4 set will get adjusted becuase right now its kinda useless lol
@@erichall090909 idk, i have yet to try it, but the 4 set still have its strength, it will depend on how consistent the echoes procc, also i need to check if the extra echoes counts towards ouroboros stacks.
Grove Guardian healing isn't being increased by 30% for druid, that's Grove Tending, which is a talent that makes your Swiftmend leave a HoT on the target
Circle of Life and Death was 15% faster HoTs, not 25%
All Druids always took Flourish in M+ and raid ALL THE TIME, Not a single druid never took that talent unless they didn't know their spec.
Also, mistweaver was never the ramp healer, only Disc Priest and Rdruid have always been ramp healers. Mistweaver has only become a ramp healer since shadowlands
i main resto shaman and i dont really play anything else since i love resto but these changes and how poorly designed the tier set is...im just going to cancel my sub and come back next xpack depending on the state of resto shaman.
They finally buffed us after ignoring rsham all of SL and then now they are going back in and removing all the buffs they gave us this xpack and set us back 4 years now. The issue with single target healing is the mana cost, surge is 12.5k for a fast spot heal but healing wave is just way to slow to be effective.
Resto shaman is completely broken on ptr… they are gonna be one of the best raid healers this tier even if they reduce the 4 set a bit.
Yeah I think the tier set is surpising me with how strong it is, but I do feel what OP is saying. Other than the tier sets power, shaman didnt gain much newness gameplay wise!
@@LBNinja7 well for people who have only played chain heal builds this season there gameplay is going to change completely as we likely won’t be using that ability at all. I don’t love all the changes but as long as we’re competitive we will adapt.
I am such a huge fan of resto shaman in raid so I hope the rumors about the tierset are true!! I think my raid group will also have a shaman in its healing comp as well!@@Literofcola77
@LBNinja7 yeah bro, like I've played every build since SL and I parse 95% or higher and 10.2 is removing every buff we have had till before I came back to the game...just feels like we are constantly getting forgotten and 💩 on. I do alot of m+ but my main thing is raiding and its what I really love doing but when I need to parse 95 to 98% to keep up with a holy pally and other healers who parse 55-65% 😔😔😔 it makes it hard to enjoy the game
I have a macro for grove guardians cuz i heal in old school tree form, it yells "WOODSTYLE SHADOWCLONE JUTSU!"
That's awesome!!!!
Happy disc priest
Yessir!
How happy you seem for the H Pal and Holy Priests really turns me off to your channel. It’s Blizz back to throwing out blanket nerfs rather than bring up classes lagging behind. And more homogenization such as “we all should have equal mana problems.” God forbid classes have different flavors.
I mean I can't stop you there, but I will say that I am not happy about these changes, was just pointing out that blizzard said they were going to make mana more of a resource and those are two of the classes where it wasn't an issue. I am just a very happy person generally even when I read bad news lol, I don't want it to be mistaken as happy about the bad news!
Grove guardian is another ability on a class with too many abilities. Coupled with the destruction of flourish, means I'll not play rdroo for the first time in forever.
(I recommend Mistweaver, I hear they have a great youtuber ;) )
@@LBNinja7 they were my first ever healer based on the shallow fact that essence don't looked cool!
Dude stop go play the classes on the PTR 😂
I have been! Some of these were first impressions though! But I think there's fun in that!
Do you think there is a chance the mistweawer is a Meta for mythic+ ?
No it wont be. It never was and it will not be until they rework entire class
I actually do think it has a great shot now with this tierset. SOOOO much aoe healing for actual free, that will allow mw to just keep spinning and doing a ton of damage for a healer. It'll be interesting to see, but i do think there's a shot.
I see they made most exciting changes for least played specs in raid: disc and MW and they probably still blast aoe healing in raid.
Im MW main but I hate those changes for druid I have druid alt. Those changes are good for m+ druid is currently clunkiest m+ healer. But I dont get Idea of nerfing flurish and rejuv spread while they giving druid this nuorish tier set which benifits of ur hot amount. Basically have no idea how will druid play next patch in raid.
I think it was just too focused on massive ramps in s2, and they want it like how it played in s3 where tranq is your main cd, but outside of tranq you just keep rejuvs on people
@@LBNinja7 idk, tranq doesn feel like a big cd, same for monk revival, its heal ~30% of raids hp.
Yeah they aren't the most exciting raid cooldowns, but I think that is the plan Blizzard is going for@@INTlyoshik
@@LBNinja7 'Fixing' the ramps without actually giving us something to heal inbetween the crazy spikes is a bad idea tho. I can't see them nerfing the throughput of the healers anywhere in the notes, so the need for the spiky damage persists. How is it gonna play out?
@@INTlyoshik I miss the times when it was enough for one rdruid to top everyone with tranq during big hits to save every other healer's mana. Back when mana and healer teamplay mattered. Everyone had their spot to shine. No need for sniping. Felt amazing.
as a prevoker i dont really see the issue with the sphere nerf, honestly doesnt change much at all and if you look at the set and the the other buffs we got i think we end up ontop tbh
we wont even use it in raid
It'll be fun watching how the raid build evolves, but I think every time they shave power off of the button it makes me wonder at what point it becomes not worth it to press
the game doesn't revolve around raiding though...definitely a nerf to M+@@erichall090909
I had a Resto Druid alt playing on the side and just decided to give it a spin gearing it alongside MW ripping M+ keys since my one of my other main(yes i main 2 chars none is of these are alts, that's how i see it, HPriest and MW Monk).
HPriest was becoming bad patch by patch in M+ and compared to the rest the changes and the tier set are nothing of use, PoM tier sucked very badly expect in Raid it did something but in M+ it was borderline useless.
Testing the Grove Guardians for RDruid rn in M+, it's a nice spell but like with Nourish itself you have to prepare the HoTs on the targets for it to even basically work like normal Nourish as if would if you cast it on your own, and since you have 3 charges you have to manage on your own, the spell itself makes sense to be in the RDruid healing toolkit, the army of the small trees addition on I:ToL is nice as well.
Ngl Disc changes looks amazing, MW aren't half bad either (i really hope they make something with Zen Flight at some point, i know i know, but i like that spell that nobody uses and can't use in DrIsles or you wouldn't want to anywhere else 'cause it's not faster than mounts, just mentioning it so no one forgets about it, mostly xD would be cool if they did something in combat with it, still i love that ability).
I have to find time to attempt to gear up the Resto Sham and my Prevoker as well, especially M+ which with RSham i haven't touched at all just LFR.
Got an HPala too but it never "felt" rewarding enough to play before or after the rework, i don't know why but it's missing something for me, like, i can't find challenging tbh.
Hpala are amazing, coming from resto druid main. Hpala heal and dmg rotation feels super rewarding, and them we got the dps & defensive cooldowns. Not a boring second. Super good rework IMO.
@@gollese It's a personal thing man, i just don't like it.
Brothers in Christ, we still have 2 months to go save your tears this will be rebalanced 50 times.
Exactly! But it's fun to look at these early numbers and see where things land!
It's funny you say that with a Resto Sham icon. We said "It's fine theres months to go in beta before launch". We said "It's fine they are bound to see us struggling" after launch. We said "It's fine the next round of changes will be for us" after that. Then we did get changes and they gutted wellspring out of nowhere and buffed chain heal to the stars, for two whole weeks. Then they knocked us straight back down to last and 2nd last place for Mythic healing. Then we said "It's fine there's months to go and we'll get changes in 10.1. Then we said "It's fine we'll get changes in 10.1.5. Then we said "It's fine they are bound to change our stuff in 10.1.7.
And now here we are finally with you saying it's fine there are 2 months, there's bound to be changes by then.
If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
hear me out pal is gonna be more broken than ever. You can add additional glimmers of light ... Crazy. Ok now you can have 3 holy shocks that hit 3 times. ok crazy- combine THAT. 3 Holy shocks hitting sth on 1 button press when you have additional glimmers...... wow and the casts got buffed by a third.... holy is gonna beat records next season. Heard it here first
Oh boy this take was piping hot!! Lol, I do think the 2pc is incredible, however the rest of the changes are lackluster imo. I'm excited to see how it holds up, but I don't think itll hold a candle to s2 pally!
And this is how paladin always get fucked over... 2 months of fun and than we get destroyed and nerfed again... Because of people calling for nerfs. Especially people who stream and make videos like this. Its just bullshit how people always get blizzard to over nerf and break paladins... With the retri the same... We asked for less dps but keep the survival and utitility power... What does blizz doe nerf our utility, than our defensive and than our burst, buit the first 2 nerf was because of our burst power... Now they nerfed that and never gave us back some of utility power and defensives... That is the issue with everyone always crying when paladins get something... Always gets us overnerfed afterwards. Today I was bursting a Survival hunter in pvp. I had like 70k DPS on him and he bursted me down with 35k dps... So our damage is just mostly aoe and not really single and he could survive more than me which is funny...
name another healer that got a rework as impactful as Hol paladin... Hehe, I won't hold my breath. It's on Blizzard.
Pala was fun befor the 2 months and it will be fun after. Its an insanely powerful class
In my opinion, they probably didn't want to mess with hpal too much since this new tierset will be pretty impactful. I expect some numbers to change pretty soon though once they find their footing.
@@driiifter Yeah Paladin was superfine haha 1 whole season. They had almost no one playing it because they major mana issues. And now their mana got nerfed again and we get buffs on a cast playstyle haha. While having 1 school of magic. the moment you silence a paladin. He has nothing to press lol.
@@Butzitube It aint that insanely powerfull anymore. Yeah they become way stronger, but other healers got buffed aswell and paladin got nerfed. People just do not know how to play against a holy paladin. They are easy to get out of of position and once you silence a paladin he is kinda doing nothing for 4 seconds.