My oldest repair yet... on the Edison cylinder phonograph
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
- I've received some new cylinders but my cylinder player broke. It 'should' be a simple fix...
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I've just watched a twenty minute video about a man replacing a bolt. It amazes me, every time, how he can take something so mundane and draw me into it. He has such an ambient voice and his understated enthusiasm for this stuff...I get caught up in these tiny adventures.
The videos are comforting
Particularly when I, myself, have removed many broken bolts over the years. Albeit with considerably more profanity.
Totally agreed
@@7upjello119 very much so
Honestly think about how this technology can still produce music with zero electricity or electronics still an admirable piece of tech.
You can hear sound from record stylus' too if you put your ear next to one while playing.
True zero carbon footprint for each play
@@simonsteph2 nah, you burn a couple calories cranking the handle lol so gotta factor in your food
@Infernal then it isn't exactly 'tech' is it? ;)
@@joasvanbakel8136 it doesn’t have to be electronic to be a form of technology.
The screws and bolts came with a 99 year warranty... they did 140 yrs so well beyond their warranty. 40 percent extra.
@@tripplefives1402 And smart enough to have his descendents deal with the issue...
Typical. Everything always fails the century after the warranty expires...
@@technoman9000 Thanks for the laugh! :D
Techmoan repairing his tapedecks: Just needs a new belt.
Techmoan repairing his phonographs: Just needs a new bolt.
That's what REPAIR means. Without even the simplest things, machines can stop working. And the fun part of the video is, we see the inside inner works of machines I think we will never own.
@@corenchiereynaldo2417 The funniest part is that it's just one letter difference, but I guess my humour is too high brow for some... *rolleyes*
Techmoan repairing his art: Just needs a new blot.
@@MrAranton Techmoan repairing his goat: Just needs a new bleat.
Techmoan repairing his fur coat: Just needs a new pelt
They need to make a "test-cylinder", similar to the test-cassettes that allow you to adjust the cassette-deck speed 😁
No they don't, they sound awful what ever speed they're played at.
@@stepheng8779 dont be silly stephen
@@stepheng8779 🤣
Left and right ... left and right ... left and right ... left and right ... left and right ... left and right
@@ikke1981 You beat me to it :-D
"I'm so used to things not working."
I shouldn't have laughed at that but I felt your pain.
I think we've all been there
It's okay, it only worked because he used it contrary to instructions
Repairing something that old must be nerve-wracking but you managed it beautifully!
Actually, the mechanics of this machine are easy to understand and spaced far enough apart that repairing something is not that tough. A digital device would have far more complicated parts.
@@toonman361 Sure but what I meant was, this is not a mass product but a piece of history :D
The green ink on your reproducer tells me that it is an "H" reproducer, which is for 4 minute records. The un-inked one will say "C", it has the proper sized needle for the 2 inch groove. You did a spectacular job on your repairs.
Thank you so much Techmoan for playing these on your Model D! Great to see you troubleshoot and repair one of these. They are fiddly! For those interested: The songs were specifically mixed mono and mastered (cut) on wax. The wax cylinders were then used to produce casts to mould the color tinted resin production cylinders (25 units each). These tunes are available individually (in stereo) both digital download and physical CD or vinyl record from our bandcamp page or the BUGHLT Records page. All songs are original except for the 1892 smash hit "Bicycle Built for Two" though sung as Brian Tochi's rendition (Toshiro Takashi in Revenge of the Nerds). Hyorori is an original piece for an animation of the same name by Hiroshi Seito. "Electronic music without electricity" is my favorite comment on this video!
Your music is cool. Like, '₡ỒỔ∟' cool.
@@cyshtoph Thank you!
@@redmartian Great stuff! How do you pronounce “BUGHLT”?
Looking back from the 22nd century, peak Techmoan was when he finally got onto the Edison wax cylinders.
Time travel just so you can watch Techmoan, what a man of culture.
Card says „電気のないおんがく展“ btw. Basically: Music without electricity exhibition.
Thanks so much for that translation, Mila Loup. It has enhanced my enjoyment of this video.
In my experience of working on vintage engines the best method of extracting snapped studs is the use of left handed twist drills - they simply wind out the stud as you drill into them without mashing the stud like many extractors do.
👆he knows.
Tim Hunkin recently posted a video on screw threads that had a piece on extracting stuck screws and bolts.
He was behind ‘The Rudiments of Wisdom’ and ‘The Secret Life of Machines’ that he’s recently remastered and posted on RUclips.
Tim Hunkin is great. Many years ago I got a copy of his book "Almost Everything There Is To Know" book as a Christmas present, which was one of the best books I ever got.
Tim is top class! What a legend.
Love Tim's old TV show with Rex from the 80s, Secret Life of Machines. In the US it was on cable TV in the 90s. I was so happy when suddenly Tim's youtube channel sprang to life with all the cool new vids he's been making.
That's the first time ever I've witnessed (even in a video) a screw extractor working in a real world scenario. If the threads are even a little bit seized up those things just break and then you have to remove the extremely hard end of the extractor from the bolt, and that can be really complicated and require an EDM machine or diamond milling bits or something.
I was surprised it worked at that speed. Normally you're supposed to go dead slow with the things so it can grab a bite.
Had that happen to me almost a year ago to a carb that had a stripped jet. Still pisses me off every time I think about it.
When the new bolt breaks, "You git, you absolute git". A moment destined to become Techmoan gold.
Pre-fatigued bolts -- our specialty.
He's putting it on one of his teeshirts.
"Git" is a British english swear word, but this being youtube those yanks can't tell.
Quick translation of the Japanese show card.
Top text: Edison Phonograph and the world's first dial telephone.
Big text: Electricity-free music exhibition.
Lower text: Demonstration of the Edison phonograph made in 1908 and the world's first dial telephone made by AT&T in 1918.
I checked twitter for 電気のないおんがく展 and these Red Martian cylinders were made for the event an exhibition that happened in March 2020 in Kayabucho, Tokyo at the Japan Creative Arts Gallery, so that all matches up.
Another awesome video, Mat, thank you for these!
you should have replaced all the capacitors while you had it open. Enjoyed the video, thanks as always for sharing. I also adored Severed Heads - Dead Eyes Open
Perfect! I had a nice laugh after work. Thanks!
There were no capacitors back in the 1900’s, it runs mechanically, not electricity. By the 1920’s a lot of those early radios uses wax capacitors and dog bone resistors.
@@Musicradio77Network he was joking.
@@Musicradio77Network 😬
@@Musicradio77Network r/whoosh
Well, now I can cross "Hearing a Japanese dirge on an Edison cylinder player" off my bucket list.
And the legendary "donkey back ride" (i quite liked that)
You know what's good about being on vacation? Returning and having not one but two new Techmoan video's waiting for you... Thanks again for all the amazing content!
Well Jel.
That’s a true pleasure.
I do like when he does the really old stuff but I think my favourites are the reviews of kitchen (shite-gadgets) equipment and the in-depth studies of obscure recording media like V2000 which finished third in a two horse race😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Also, love your avatar.
I hope you had a good break, I could do with one myself.
@@Techmoan Don't you dare! 😉 Jk, I can only imagine the time this channel takes up. Hope you get around to your break, you deserve it.
@@mhoppy6639 thnx 😊 I love the old audio/video formats too but I wonder if there is still anything out there that he hasn't covered yet...
@@mhoppy6639 yup. Call me sad but I’ve watched the one about potato gadgets a couple of times :) more kitchen gadget reviews! Please. They can be good or bad gadgets.
I never thought that screw-extracter would work - when it did, it was like watching Eddie Kidd jump over a line of double decker buses. Thanks for a brilliant show that has it all - like a detective show, DIY and comedy all in one - every one is a little adventure
17:37 The classic question when experiencing modern art: is this a monumental work of genius, or is something just broken?
I laughed so hard at your comment it took me about a minute to properly recover and type this. Thank you very much, oh I've started laughing again I'd better stop typing...
I rewatched the video at that timestamp and that set me off a third time. Oh my aching stomach muscles.
I love the way we used to make things. Beautiful wood and metal made by skilled craftspeople. Made to last, should play music for a few hundred more years now. I still use a 100 year old milkshake blender that works perfectly. There is such a feeling of satisfaction and history from these vintage devices, the more we can save the better.
My grandfather had an Edison and donated it to the Smithsonian years ago. I remember him taking out a wax tube from a huge carton of tubes and playing it for us. What an experience to hear it in real life. This was years ago probably around 1980 or so.
The sad truth of it is that it was most likely set in a box and forgotten.
@@gunnarthefeisty I know. I really wish I had possession of it. He had many great collectibles.
And we moaned about 22khz 8bit samples on the soundblaster cards. Another good video.
_"This is an 8-bit recording, 'It's a chilly winter's night, at last the moonlight's breaking through' "_
I had managed to convince myself that a clockwork motor I found in my late father-in-laws shed was a phonograph motor. I even found a nut to fit the threaded bar, fabricated a rough handle and managed to wind it up. Other than a clean and some WD 40 it seems to work perfectly.
Lo and behold, it's identical to your Edison Phonograph motor from this video. Now all I need is a phonograph!
That red Nocturne cylinder playing on the Edison machine really evoked a surreal, dreamlike feeling.
Funny coincidence while watching this: I was showing my pals the video of the tricycle race from "Revenge of the Nerds" last week, featuring the song "Daiichi (Daisy Bell)" by Red Martian! Any time my bothers or I heard that song, we'd slip into a fit of laughter picturing the teams passing out as they drank a beer for each lap on the tricycle. The song was perfect for the scene - with Brian Tochi pedaling as Toshiro for the Tri-Lams!
The 1892 smash hit! it does start out with a bit from the movie just before the race.
The mechanics of the device and especially the way the metal parts integrate with the wooden parts remind me a lot of my grandmother's "Singer" sewing machine.
When replacing a broken suspension screw its best to replace them all. Usually where there's one that breaks the rest may follow because they can weaken over time.
As a swedish viewer i can attest to this thing. It is remarcable what he does. And the voice! It is like if it was from a real british person. It is just wow and so much great. Greets from all your non engleesh ppl :D Carry on
I don’t even wait for the ads to finish playing to click the thumbs-up on a Techmoan video. I’ve sometimes been surprised, but never disappointed, by some of the tech you can revive with a little bit (or a lot) of love.
Your videos are always a nice break from whatever else is going on in the world. Thank you.
Stephen Jones is a really cool artist. He did amazing video things for Severed Heads. I believe he built his own custom video synthesizer in the 80s.
I was so stoked and surprised to hear his name in this video!
Came here to say just this. Dead Eyes Open was an important part of the soundtrack to my youth.
Just realized this the actual Severed Heads, I assumed it was just some band using the name, that's absolutely incredible!
Love that the Edison is back up and running! Even more that artists are still producing new media for the ancient machine.
I swear man watching you fix things is like watching Bob Ross paint....mesmerizing
Now you just need the 3000Hz speed check and azimuth calibration cylinders...
what about the crosstalk rejection circuitry? and we're really gonna forget the tesla noise reduction?
Interesting! I'm in the Seattle area and I found a copy of that exact Red Martian Retrailing 'CD-stuffed-in-a-floppy-shell' at a thrift store around here a few years back. Still have it somewhere.
It is interesting to see these old historical items still working today. One thing to note is that spring driven mechanisms are very sensitive to any resistance that shouldn't be there. A little bit of extra tension on the belt or any drag from the gear train will affect it. A light weight oil, such as for sewing machines, could be used on the bearings of the gears in the drive train. Since you are using oil, it needs to be done from time to time since oil will dry out over time. Thanks for this trip back in history. Amazing to think this is where music recording started.
The limits of your skill now include bolt extraction, nice repair!
There is a bit of a design flaw there: when you wind it puts lateral stress in the bolt which gets concentrated at the point where it broke. You could probably add some sort of sleeve to distribute the stress more. I suspect the extra bolt had been in another unit and was stressed the same way. But I’m sure if you mentioned this to Edison he’d say the design is plenty good enough, if it lasts the lifetime of the buyer no one is going to complain.
I heard they are going to address that problem in the next version they put out
Edison will still honour the warranty, simply return the device in it's original packaging...
Before you pass ill informed info on a repair read up on metallurgy. It is the way the screw was made that caused the failure. by no means the design of the player.
@@MiloPerrotti Hard to see on the first one but @ 8:53, the second was over torqued. Nearly a text book fracture.
@@CraftAero you honestly think you can over torque a quarter inch diameter bolt with a screwdriver
"I'm not knowledgeable of these things, i just have one" is something more people need to understand applies to them.
I had a very similar emotional rollercoaster the first time I used a broken bolt extractor. The arm on my favorite (no longer manufactured) office chair fell off. Sheered the bolt right off. I bought one of those bolt extractor kits just knowing there was no way that it would work because I had spent probably 2 hours trying several other things first and it felt like that bolt was really, really stuck in there. I was utterly surprised when I had the bolt out of the chair in a matter of minutes once I took the bolt extractor to it. Similar sentiment, so used to things not working but I was pleasantly surprised at this one.
What I like about phonographs is the awkwardness and the fidelity
Only Techmoan could make an interesting video about replacing a bolt. 20 mins of classic Matt.
Thanks, it made my day 👍👍
Seems like the bolts had the metal equivalent of osteoporosis, just becoming brittle and falling apart from being too old... :S
Hydrogen embrittlement
@@johngdoty this is going to be a fun search, thanks 😄
@@Ogaitnas900 It was indeed interesting. Thanks @John Doty
Wow, I just found myself listening to Severed Heads yesterday and thinking to myself "who the hell is this? Good stuff though" and suddenly a guy from the band pops up on TechMoan. Keep up your good work at the nexus of all information!
I can't believe you used a phillips head screw!
My apparently righteous indignation is overwhelming!
Old, emerging tech is so beautiful.
I use those extraction tools regularly. The drill tends to go blunt very quickly, but the easy outs work well. Just use a regular drill bit.
Preferably a left hand drill bit, so it doesn't tighten the screw while drilling.
I LOVE Severed Heads. I must find this collab!
It's amazing how simple yet ingenious these machines are! Only recently got one, and have been slowly maintaining and upgrading it (2/4 minute gearbox and reproducer, new needles, belt, gear cover).
One guy on YT build a modern version of this. Would've loved to replicate it, but it's a bit complicated with several stepper motors and arduinos.
great job getting that screw out, that's a useful tool to avoid mess.
Hydrogen embrittlement is what has done your bolts in. The corrosion protection has leached hydrogen into the base metal making it very brittle.
Could that happen to the other metallic parts of this device?
👍🏻
@@aserta I'd say it lasted more than long enough...
@@aserta He didn't even use standard metric sizes!
Is that what caused the mudflap bolts on my Nissan car to break? I saw a YT video recently of other Nissan bolts snapping.
.
Thoroughly enjoyed the video 10/10 !
That's wild you got a package from Stephen Jones! I actually saw Severed Heads live in Toronto in 1990, where he performed on the Video Synthesizer.
Plot twist. The new Left /Right tester is the alternating vacuum cleaner/Bosch drill noise…
Go on Mat. It would be fantastic
Send it back to Edison my friend. You’ve. Successfully established a 100 year timeline for bolt metal-fatigue..refund or credit note😜
My wife and I recently discovered Time Team, and have been watching so much of it, I kept waiting for Tony Robinson to pop in and ask "So what does this technology tell us about the people living at this time?"
I will NEVER understand why something would be Thrown Away JUST because One did not know what was wrong, didn't know how, (or want) to fix it, or just doesn't want it anymore. PASS it On. Thanks so Much for trying - *Great Success!*
That mislabeled cylinder must be some Swedish song called "a postcard". Loved watching this, a perfect coffee break video.
Here is video play for "ett vykort", its unfortunate the mistake. ruclips.net/video/4-WwiLg2hzs/видео.html
Nice fix and interesting how brittle those old screws were. Brings a diecast rot, or zinc pest phenomena in my mind, had one diecast model car which suffered zinc pest on the engine cover and trunklid. In less than ten years they started showing signs of it, and finally expanded, cracked and broke in peaces. They were so brittle you could break them using fingers.
I'd never heard of zinc pest, so I looked it up on Wikipedia. I think I know why the front fell off.*
I think I would have replaced the other screws after finding two bad ones. I would have looked for slot-head screws and chrome blued them to match. If those screws fail, the whole mechanism can drop into the box. *Clarke& Dawe
First I thought the paid promotion was for the bolt remover, very handy in everyday life. Oh wait, no, it's for the amazing swiss multitool that handles everything, where is the link... And finally the big reveal with the nice colorful cylinders.
Thanks for keeping those wonderful devices alive !
8:00
The closest we'll ever hear to Mat being either actually angry (Positively livid?) or using any profanity. It's a bit like hearing a teacher lose their temper or swear, and by that I mean kind of amusing. Anyway, keep up the great work man, glad you're not afraid to try to fix something, but I would've been afraid of all those old bolts. They're usually hand made and not of the highest quality.
This phonograph is amazing!
Well done getting those bolts out. I've thrown out projects for less.
For anyone else who needs a broken screw extracted and isn't sure of their tools or abilities, in this case I would advise taking the mechanism off leaving just the base casting and the broken bolt end, and take it to a car repair shop. They are experts at removing broken bolts from castings, and I've found that they're usually keen to do something different and interesting with their skills. Go when they aren't busy and bake some brownies and you'll probably get it out for free.
100 years plus and it still plays, you gotta admire that
16:07 - Hearing an Edison cylinder in 2022 warble-y playing "Red Martian - Daichee" (Takashi's tricycle race scene from the movie 'Revenge of the Nerds') is like something right out of one of my "best" fever dreams...
~~oh, hair pie~~
Good luck to you too Burke!
Great to see coloured cylinders. Now for the picture cylinder!
Wooooooh yeah, Picture Cylinders!!!!
“You git. You absolute git.” Got me so hard. Never heard anyone call a screw a git before. For some reason it was beyond hilarious to me. Thanks for the laughs Mat. 🤝👍
_"You git, you absolute git"_
Flat and and Philips? You’re crossing the streams!
The reason those screws(not bolts there is a difference) sheared is likely because they were made of iron, and sadly due to the impurities and crystaline structure they end up becomining brittle over time.
It may not be a bad idea to replace the screws with authentic modern steel ones plus the modern steel screws will tear up the old softer iron threads it might be best to upgrade to heardened helicoil threads. Sometimes a modern upgrade is fine if it looks right, unless you can find someone that still makes iron screws or can make them for you, it is ok to upgrade to keep it functioning.
Loved watching that. I'm a fan of (literal) recorded history. I've heard digitally reconstructed turn of the century cylinder records and I'm amazed at how good the fidelity can be.
Aside from the limited audio of these cylinders, they have one clears advantage over records.
The first song on a record sits at the furthest from center, thus spreading all of the music into more vinyl than the final song on that side. Aside from increased dust and bump noise possibilities due to increased distance traveled along the groove by the stylus, the music is spread across more vinyl than the final, more compressed song. Back in the day, I could notice the quality of sound reproduction between the first and final song being audibly, if only slightly different. I think manufacturers and producers were aware of this and most often put more popular songs at the beginning of an album for this very reason.
The cylinders wouldn't ever have that characteristic. 👍
Well done! I like how it's self-contained, doesn't even need batteries or a wall outlet. (The way things are going, we might be using hand-crank-powered computers soon!)
"I'm so used to things not working out." You and me both, brother! And I think I have the same hardware set from a TV wall mount kit. 😉
The first time in history anyone's ever got one of those extractors to work! ;-)
The man says "I'm not great at repairing stuff".......................ha! You under estimate yourself! I have seen your repairs, tricks, innovations, "make dos" and substitutions included. I'm struggling to remember if you have ever had a "failed" video......................in any event, thanks for another very educational and entertaining video!
It is fun to see you work with phonographs this old. I am a collector of such machines and records and it is really terrific to see you work with them.
Your basic fixes that get things going are a staple of the channel for me, they're comforting. This one was special, on a special machine.
You might want to look into a left hand twist drill bit set. Sometimes they bite into the fastener and will screw it out on its own. I've also had luck using a Dremel to cut a slot and using a flat head driver to remove. Obviously not applicable in this situation unless you feel like disassembling the whole thing. I'm surprised you got it out with that extractor set, I've never had luck with those combination sets.
Congratulations Techmoan you’ve repaired your first antique phonograph! Half of my collection is stuff I repaired and got working on my own. It’s a great feeling when you’ve got something that hasn’t worked in almost 100 years playing again! 👍😁
The bottom fell off. That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point. They're built to very rigorous engineering standards.
Cardboards's right out.
I can't believe the language being used! (very nice to hear something being referred to as an absolute git and not in a developing context)
I just watched a video earlier today where they showed that clip of the guy on what looks like a breakfast TV show demonstrating an Edison cylinder player. It's the one where he's holding the cylinder saying how fragile and rare it is, with his hand shaking the whole time, then it just explodes! Always gets a laugh out of me when I see that clip.
Sure the tension on the winding mechanisms' changed considerably throughout the many year's this item has survived. That would definitely account for the variable playback speeds your getting out of it. Brilliant video. Thanks.
I’ve never tried an extractor with a battery powered drill. I think you would’ve had a lot less trouble with an actual power drill. I’ve drilled out lots of screws on things like broken rearview mirrors on Vespas. With regards to the brittle bolts, it’s possible that they had some level of zinc content which, over many years, can get contaminated and brittle.
Pretty cool people are making new cylinders
Don't sell yourself short. Many of my co-workers would not be able to do what you did... we build multi-million dollar railroad maintenance equipment. Screw/bolt extractors are awesome. Thanks for the entertainment.
“You git!” 😆 and holy hell the size of that Swiss Army knife!!
It's always a pleasure to have this channel pop up amongs my subscription notifications.
These are good early records.
We must preserve these
8:57... that 2nd screw was already compromised... It was crooked before you installed it. Always check the new bolt thread against the old (1st) original broken bolt Thread to be sure.
4:05 it's shown
@@k42uy4 Yup... That's the 2nd already compromised (crooked) screw.
Repairing is not about skill when going into the project, it is about learning on the way through!
To me, it looks like the two bolts there are designed as a tensioner for the belt connecting the drive to the cylinder.
You should team up with HandToolRescue - I bet he’d do an amazing job of restoring it and getting it working really well.
that last red cylinder is "Hyorori" by Red Martian, and may or may not be a new favorite song of mine.
I love the wow and flutter lol.
Ah, Severed Heads, a group I've actually heard of independently of your videos. They were more at the end of industrial noise and loops, I was only passingly familiar with them.
I like this style of repair video, live commentary with annotations, this is brilliant
That yellow cylinder was the Drunk Tricycle race song from Revenge of the Nerds LOL
The yellow cylinder gave me Revenge of the Nerds flashbacks.
Congratulations on your first bolt extraction. Your next mission: Removing a counter broken head bolt on a short block Chevy. You learn all kinds of new ways to curse along the way.