You dont like crossbows then dont use one I bet most of you big men that bow hunt use the most expensive and most gadget filled bows out there My brother and a few friends were bow hunting before the compound bows came out and we said the same thing those arent bows thats not bow hunting Who cares we were foolish kids I bet most of you big bad bow hunters have a very nice rifle with a super powerful scope on it for your states gun season If you weren't super hypocrites you would use your bows during your rifle seasons Its a stupid argument for simple minded people Most states are begging people to kill more deer and pleading for people to get more kids involved If our numbers fall to low we will have no power to stop the anti hunting nuts Arguing about who uses what legal weapon is childish
I’m so sick of the xbow is cheating talk, John why don’t you use a long bow without scent lok? Because scent lok gives you an advantage. So why can’t a person use a xbow?
Muzzleloaders have a season, Bows have one. Guns hava a season. Perhaps crossbows should have one. That said.... a 30/30 doesnt have the range of a 7 mag. Some muzzleloaders can shoot 250 no problem. I mean, is that primitive? There is no right answer. I think what is more important than the weapon season, etc. Is management of the deer herd. Having competent people responsible for the care of deer population and buck/doe ratios, free from political bias is what we need.
Crossbow, compound bow , traditional bow, rifle , shotgun, pistol, rocket launcher, hand grenade or spear there is no right or wrong way to kill anything , killing is killing regardless …
Amen John I'm a bowhunter only by choice even though I am physically limited on draw weight because of health issues. Gun hunting just doesn't give me that rush. I love bowhunting and as long as I'm able to pull the legal draw weight I will shoot a vertical bow. Happy hunting and GOD BLESS
You can't tell me crossbow and vertical bow is the same. To me vertical bow is so much more challenging and thats the point. I dont gun hunt anymore because I feel like its out of respect for the animal that I should have to work hard to harvest one. Thats literally the point. Everyone wants to kill big bucks and that's all that matters to guys these days. It is so much more intimate shooting an animal with a vertical bow. John is great. Learned more from him than any other hunter.
Disagree on many points. Lets just all get along even though we have different views and stand strong as a hunting community. We can all agree that we love to hunt so stop bashing how each person decides to approach it.
Both arguments for and against the vertical bow and the crossbow are virtually the same. The problem is, each are about personal opinion. The crossbow guy argues about full inclusion because his level of hunting is perhaps subordinate to a vertical bow hunter under the guise of "inclusion". The vertical hunter argues about the difficulty because his level of hunting is perhaps superior to a crossbow and never claims "exclusion", when in fact that's exactly what he is doing......and I'm saying this as a bow hunter. Your argument ended as they all do. In fact, neither hunter is affirming that both hunters need each other to survive, because the vast majority of the human populous is grossly disgusted by hunting in general, and our enemy SHOULD NOT BE the other guy who chooses to hunt differently than us, even falling withing the realm of legality. In fact, the only thing that should matter, is if it is in fact legal, and if you don't like the laws, unite independently and change those rules or laws through legislation. Bickering back and forth and giving examples as to why your/my side is better seems almost childish. You do you. I'll do me. Screw the rest! Good day!
I take comfort in the fact that I've learned how to hunt the ridges of SW Pennsylvania. Yeah I'll not take a 170" buck that way but I've learned a skill set that gives me plenty of room to hunt without a ton of competition. Not many guys like to hunt Rocky sreep ankle busting hills and ridges. Last year I managed a 103" buck and I've killed up to 140 incher. Quite a challenge but it's an accomplishment to get it done.
I hunt public land in the Ozarks. Chasing bucks in the Ozarks is my passion and although I have hunted leases nothing comes close to to the wild woods.
I hunt Public land in South Central Kentucky. In the Danielle Boone, it's my passion as well. Everything about being in those woods is nothing short of magnificent. Watching the sun rise over the hills is like watching god tell you good morning. I can spot and stalk every direction for miles and never cross private property. I've had a bear charge at me, I've watched bald eagles fly off a cliff and dive into the river and come out with a fish back to their nest. So many stories of wild life, My son turned 16 this year so now I have a buddy to do it with. All the worries in the world melt away as soon as you get out of the vehicle.
With John, crossbows are the lazy man’s way of bow hunting. I shoot year round every single day inside or out it’s my relaxing time after dinner. It’s my way of Life🏹🏹
Lazy? I've crossbow hunted here in Ohio(where we don't hand out bow participation trophies) for over 20 years and I've walked more miles and drug more deer than you'll ever comprehend. Go ahead and hide up in a tree where it takes zero skill to kill a deer and think you're special.... you're not. 10 year old kids and 98lb women can shoot a bow and take deer. It's actually lazy to make your comment thinking a hunting implement makes you something. Just hunt. Do you. Others will do them. If you want a challenge, hunt on the ground.
@@papalou13 I’m 66 and have shot a bow since I was 6 ( a recurve) and have off ground for 15 years. Hunted elk in Colorado for 16 years ( no tree stands) back packing into wilderness areas by my self with 60 lbs on my back even at 66. Shot my 41st turkey with my bow this year. When I say lazy I mean you don’t have to practice just sight in and your ready to go. I shoot over 10,000 arrows a year and don’t see how anyone can get excited about shooting anything with a crossbow. Just my humble option.
@@bryanmoorefield8890 certain bow hunters are the only people in the hunting community that think their weapon of choice is special and the only way. Sadly, their is nothing special about it. I bought a bow at a garage sale for $35 with mismatched arrows and practiced for one day and then killed a 14pt the next day with it. I didn't celebrate the bow, I celebrated hunting and the buck. 12 year old kids and 98 lb women can shoot a bow, so it's hardly some great manly feat. Then comes the topic of ethical quick harvesting of the quarry. I hear of 5-10 lost or injured animals every year by archers who "shoot all year at the club".
If I use a cannon, but call it a large caliber rifle, does that make it a rifle...no. To each his own, but I can remember back when guys were proud they could head to the woods in October before the rifle guys with a weapon that took time and practice to hone. It felt like a special time in the woods. Now crossbows have blurred the line so badly between "is a crossbow a bow or is it a rifle". Crossbow guys get lost in the argument of "ohh i bet you aren't shooting a long bow with stick arrows" but they miss the point entirely.
Ok, so a crossbow is easier and it's one size fits all, I still have to buy the proper license, wake up drive to my hunting spot, climb up in my stand, be scent conscious, have woodsmanship skills coming in and out and sit in all kinds of weather. Just because you like a vertical bow better that shouldn't cause any discrimaination against me and when I can hunt.
Not sure what you mean? But I'll say this. I had to go Crossbow because of a cervical problem. I had a medical reason for using the crossbow but I still believe anyone should be able to use a crossbow during any legal bow season. @@stndpenguin
The One Buck Rule has completed turned my home state of Indiana around, in a good way, when it comes to having more mature bucks on the landscape. People are more picky, more bucks get to live. The One Buck Rule works and it works well. That's a fact. I also agree with John 100% on the subject of crossbows. My children are both disabled, in wheelchairs. Their arms are too weak to use a vertical bow. It makes them sick to see abled bodied people, taking the lazy way out, opting for a crossbow, when these people should be celebrating the fact that they have perfectly good working arms, that can be used for drawing back a bow!!!!!! But, people being people, especially now a days, want the easy way out. They want as close to quick, and guaranteed success as possible, with as little work required as possible, so....the crossbow fits the bill, right up there with cell cams. Rant over
Crossbows eliminate the most difficult part of bow hunting. Having to draw back and move in close proximity of an animal is what makes archery hunting so challenging.
John has helped me become a complete bow hunter. I am not privileged enough to have large property to hunt! I hunt public lands here in Michigan. Him and Dan Infalt have helped me so much!!
It’s always a good debate/topic for people who can actually have a reasonable debate no matter what anyone thinks DNR for each state classifies archery equipment, my state, particularly was one of the first to allow crossbows into archery season been in Ohio. I took my first deer ever with a compound. And I practiced with that compound for years, probably three or four before I ever took it into the woods. But now I strictly use a Crossbow for hunting season. It is always funny to me how people think you need to have the hardest way to kill an animal or you’re not a real hunter I’m a firm believer in Hunt smarter not harder…. But that’s all right because you’re truly not a real man until you’re shooting a long bow or recurve with out all that fancy equipment the compound bow has. Generally speaking, I love it when people say, crossbows are not part of archery let’s go back and look at the history of crossbows, because crossbows have been archery almost since the beginning of time way back in the BC crossbows have dated back a long time way before compound bows ever came to market
@blacksrfm did those BC crossbows have scopes? Did you have to physically pull it back or did they have little cranks like today? Scope and trigger, not archery. So is an air gun that shoots arrows archery too?
When you hunt public land the playing field should be equal. I don’t need a bunch of idiots stomping around with their cross bows all October. You want to do that on your private land in your nice double ladder stand go ahead
Crossbows have increased the number of injured deer. No one practices because it's so easy... Also makes it easier for poachers. They can take a raven and shoot twice the distance. I think like John... Use only during gun or unless disabled.
I started with the crossbow and have now converted to the compound bow. I enjoy the compound bow more for some of the reasons that John mentions. It's more of a craft, more of a commitment, more of a challenge. But I would never want to take the crossbow away from those who love it, or shorten their season. As long as the deer population stays healthy in a given region who care what gear other people use, as long as they are safe and ethical.
@@stephendowning6234 A crossbow only season doesn't make sense. The reason archery is so difficult, besides the range, is having to draw the bow and move in close proximity of an animal. Crossbows take the most difficult part out of the equation.
John I respectfully disagree I can pick my mathews compound bow up on the day before season and shoot half dozen arrows and it's dead on! These compound bows today are so advanced they are as deadly as crossbows! Anyone who claims there not is full of shit
My opinion . Hunting training courses should first come with a monetary cost . Hunter training courses should be more stringent to show proficiency with weapon of choice . In my circles most hunter are week end worries . Hardly proficient, while taking way less than high percentage shots . Most of the time they don’t even know if there bow is in tune or not , let alone the proper arrows . We all started somewhere in the hunting world , I get it , but there just doesn’t seem like a willingness to go the extra mile respecting the privilege and the animal being hunted . My opinion .
As a Kansas resident, I as well as many people I know have been “squeezed” out of hunting access from leasing private property to out of State use on public lands. Yes, 30000 bow hunters seems so low comparatively to other states but most of the prime deer habitat is located in the Eastern 3rd of the State.
My dad will be 76 this year. He has had 2 shoulder surgeries the last 10 years. He still refuses to go to the dark side. He just didn't bow hunt those years he couldn't draw. Crossbows are not bow hunting. They are a joke and it is disingenuous for this D&D guy to make his argument that they are okay for ARCHERY season when he knows damn well. When they became legal here for archery season the gun guys all bought them up. More deer are killed with crossguns in my state than with with vertical bows despite the fact that we have double the number of vertical bow hunters! Let that sink in. Just another blow to our public lands. I have relatives that have tried to bow hunt in the past and gave up on it because it was too hard. Well, they all got Raven's now and all say it is a joke that they allow the things in archery season. My local sporting goods store doesn't even carry vertical bows anymore because they can't sell them!
I am a public land hunter in the upper pensiala I been shot at by accident lol no one knew I was on the ground hunting they just stop to shot there hand guns in the middle of nowhere..... had a gentleman hanging out at my truck at dusk excusing of hunting his tree stand wanna fight me ... With that said as hunters we need to got along an stop worrying about a big buck we need to remember God put deer hear as food before there was any scoring of inches or of that nature.... for the love of God no more deer shaming an let's share are public lands safely!!! Let's have a great 2023 fall an remember how an why we all got in to deer hunting! 🦌
Crossbows. I have been hunting for 42 years and have killed dozens and dozens of deer with rifles and compounds. I have chosen now to hunt with a recurve crossbow. I do not have time to shoot a compound all summer to be proficient, my family comes first. However I have a love for hunting, and it is not about killing a deer for me. Now it is about killing a mature deer on public land in PA (lots of pressure). I choose to use a crossbow because it is legal, lethal, and efficient. My limit is 30 yards and has always has been with a bow. For me, it is about the hunt, not the kill. I put over 100 miles scouting in the winter and early spring for next fall. I hope you all have a safe and successful season.
It amazes me how much hate someone can get for using an efficient tool! That is the reason I have been a gun, Hunter for most of my life, but since centerfire rifles are not allowed on most of the public land that I am near, I have to make compromises. For John , or anyone else to claim that you do not have to practice with a crossbow is simply asinine.
I have been bowhunting for 50 yrs and have used everything from an osage selfbow with homemade arrows to crossbows and have enjoyed all of it, I have seen and heard from way to many purists about this or that should not be allowed, And every year these same people wound and lose animals, As well as many compound and crossbow shooters, Everyone should practice no matter what the weapon, I find dead dear every yr on my propery after gun season. Lots of hunters just dont care or think they dont need to shoot often . My son would not be a deer hunter if it had not been for crossbows, He has missed 2 nice bucks at 30 yrds, So it is not a slam dunk.
They're farming deer not hunting them. Hollywood hunters ruined it. I started hunting Iowa in the early 90's. Every farmer would let ya hunt by the late 90's it was turning Hollywood big blinds with logos all over. Not to mention the tag $'s.
I had to turn off my ozone machine last year because the deer were smelling it. I was on private land in a box blind. As soon as I turned it off they calmed down and came in to the feeder.
Great discussion guys! Respect for both of you! The whole crossbow debate will never be settled but from a state $$ angle, crossbows equal income. That is the bottom line! I’m not a huge fan of extra tags for youth weekends or 1st time hunter weekends but they bring they $$ in🤷♂️ If it keeps or brings in more hunters, that’s the best we can hope for right now. Sad but true. Thanks, Will
I remember when Michigan allowed everybody to use crossbows. It used to be just for the elderly and disabled. A kid in my school said "I think I'll try bowhunting now that crossbows are allowed." I thought no you won't, you're going gun hunting that shoots an arrow. I just don't understand why people aren't attracted to the thrill and challenge of hunting with a regular bow
I don't get why compound and crossbows our allowed they our not bows and both our about the same release let off ect. How about make our own bows or if such a issue Knapp points use a altlatl . See the logic . As kid I called scopes cheaters and up there with a crossbow so probably should all not worry about who uses what or we should go back to traditional bows and black powder
I know what you mean, modern compounds seem like they're just as easy to shoot as a crossbow. Crazy seeing people kill deer at 60 yards or farther with a bow. That's an average shot with my rifle where I hunt. To each their own I guess, it just bothers me when people think they need a crossbow. I would love to hunt with self made bows and arrows! If we all did I think there would certainly be way more deer to chase
@@colebesonen8809 right on bud I don't think we should fight about it and both have advantages. Boy there be lot deer your right if we used traditional archery. Good comment 👍
John 100% dead on, these gun hunters take up cross bow hunting then wound deer after deer because they’re not archery hunters they hit a deer with their cross bow and act like they just shot one with their good ole 30-06. Don’t understand angles, blood trailing, or really anything about being an archery hunter 🤷🏻♂️
That doesn't make much sense. I'm old now+use a Xbow, but I used a compound for years. I've wounded, killed+ missed deer with both! Blood trailing is necessary whether using a bow OR a gun. Also, I bought a Hawke scope, synced out to 100 yds. I started at 20,30,40... By the time I got to 80, my bag target looked like a DOT! So, I was trying to hit a dot with a dot. Another inch to the rt, and I would have lost my bolt forever( shooting in the woods). So, they are not 30.06's; you can't focus your scope once you get it synced(like a rifle's), so, the farthest I ever shot a deer was about 40. Anyway, enjoy your hunt this year, whatever you use, and good luck.
@@turtleman5111 So you’re an archery hunter turned crossbow hunter… im obviously referring to the majority of people which are rifle hunter turned crossbow hunter
Yeah, I knew a guy, rip, that wounded a deer 4 days in a row and 6 total in a season with his crossgun. I know another guy that was trying to head and neck shoot deer at 50-60 with his cross gun because that is what he did gun hunting!
Ok. So based on watching this great channel, I used a 2.25 cut, 125 grain Swacher this year. Ravin R10. Deer lived 30 seconds. Thank You. Love my R10 This was in UP
Great debate. I hunted with a vertical bow until an elbow injury didn't allow me to draw. Hunted with a crossbow for a year and DID NOT feel like an archer. Got the elbow fixed and went back to vertical. Crossbows have nothing to do with the discipline of archery. I also don't agree with being able to shoot what you want on your land. The game on your land does not belong to you it belongs to the people of the state/country. Regs are there for the overall health of the herd.
John is such a great ambassador for the sport of bowhunting. I love his honesty and the ability to be an adult when he disagrees with someone else instead of acting a fool like some others do. One of the best bow hunters to ever live
He is ? Ask him about how many bucks he shot at night and the foot ball player he used to go get them. Then ask him about the Alpena boat motor that he took and went back to return. He’s not even close to Rompola. Keep makin videos What has he done lately?
i been hunting since i was 12 yrs and killing big matured buck is super hard… i’ve seen lots of big 140”-160” classes on private property, but hunting high fences doesn’t required any skills except opening your wallet to buy it… hunting high fence deer is just like shopping, no differences, because if you have the money you can shoot any monster buck there… i know how it is, because i wanted my 14 yrs old son to bag his first buck over in his life…he never had any training about hunting except got his hunting permit and license…hunting deer in high fence doesn’t required skills, it’s just like shopping, as long as you have the money you can shoot any matured buck you wanted it… i put my son on a food plot and after 5:40pm the velvet 9 point non typical 160” came out and he just point the gun at it and bang its dead…if hunting high fence was hard then there’s no way my 14yrs old son would never get that buck in his life time?!
Great Podcast ,I love John's entire perspective on Hunting. I mounted my first deer with a bow ( a Doe ) that I shot from the ground, before the Baker & T.S.S climbing tree-stands were available. I'm more proud of that deer than any of the Biggest bucks that I've shot over the last 45 years.
I grew up hunting in rural west Texas. Hunt in a deer blind 10' of the ground shooting at a feeder 100 yards away. I could eat pancakes, play pandora on my phone, run my buddy heater and have coffee and have great success..
i truly agreed with john on what he said about cross bow… i believe that any young kids can use it, elderly, or disabled is permitted, otherwise capable spent be… i’m disabled from my motorcycle accident and i can shoot a cross bow, but i preferred to use a compound bow, because it’s more challenging and required skills…
I've seen these types of hunting videos with these huge bucks on high fencing, I think it's just awful,, half of those "Trophy" type deer are not even timid or fearful of ppl. And the prices astronomically outrageous!! Out of state licenses are way to high as well. We won't even go there about the high fence ranches that breathe dear with antlers so big they can't even hold their head up. SMFFH
All just make our own bows Knapp our points use pine rezin for fletchings off your birds ya shoot split em with a stone knife or use the atlatl perhaps. How a release and all new features come out every year makes compound not look much different than crossbow
I have a personal lake that's all private and have caught state record fish and won't put them in the books because it shouldn't be allowed in my eyes even though it is allowed
Deer are like cockroaches in my area. They are infested and cause a lot of wrecks. You can shoot 2 bucks a season and 3 does a day everyday for 4 months. Glad they let hunters use crossbows and anything else to try and knock the numbers back. I quit worrying about camo. Sometimes I wear my work clothes that I sweat in all day. Bam, still shoot deer easily. I go to the big public land tracks here sometimes. It is a little more challenging but still big herds.
Tennessee, not the whole state but in the L counties this is how it is. The regulations for other counties are not as liberal. I am near FT Campbell, it is tore up with deer around here. @@gordonneverdies
As long as hunters are safe and respect thier game laws, other hunters, etc. they should not be hassled for their choice of equpment. I can remember back in the 70's being treated like I was a completly unethical hunter for shooting a compound bow. Let's get over the stigmas for crossbows, airbows, air guns, blackpowder, etc. If its legal and you're hunter welcome aboard.
@russelllangworthy8855 no. But if people are going to be true archery purists, wouldn't that rule out compounds? My stance is that whatever people can legally and ethically take a deer with, is fine. I'd rather have someone take a deer with a crossbow, then wound it with a vertical bow.
I always saw compounds the way compound shooters seem to see crossbows. Both are for people that can't or choose not to shoot a real bow for whatever reason.
I don't like john because of his cockiness to beating a deer nose. But he is right about crossbows me and my friends archery hunt and all got crossbows as a backup because they are ez mode
Ive never understood when guys cheat and act like there big bad hunters . How is that pride? Its spineless. u still gota look at yourself in The mirror 🪞 every day. I would lose all respect for myself if i had to lie and cheat to get the bragging status these guys get. Ive never understood these guys , how does that feel Good?. 😐😢
John's critical vanity diminished his worth in the hunting public trust to bad he could have been a roll model
You dont like crossbows then dont use one
I bet most of you big men that bow hunt use the most expensive and most gadget filled bows out there
My brother and a few friends were bow hunting before the compound bows came out and we said the same thing those arent bows thats not bow hunting
Who cares we were foolish kids
I bet most of you big bad bow hunters have a very nice rifle with a super powerful scope on it for your states gun season
If you weren't super hypocrites you would use your bows during your rifle seasons
Its a stupid argument for simple minded people
Most states are begging people to kill more deer and pleading for people to get more kids involved
If our numbers fall to low we will have no power to stop the anti hunting nuts
Arguing about who uses what legal weapon is childish
Crossbows aren't bowhunting. Thank you, John.
Childish
@@mikekastner9062 🤣
When money gets scarce all these “FAD” hunters will fall to the way side.
Trophy culture just seems toxic to me. But I don’t know. You do you.
A couple years ago I saw a 2.5 yo spike. It had slick main beams with about a 12 inch spread. I’ve never wanted a specific deer so much in my life.
Very self righteous......amazing woodsman....but he's like fingernails on a chalkboard
Hey, my first deer was a spike with a bow. I think I was 18. I’m 50 now and I remember it like it was yesterday.
I always listen to John and apply what I’ve learned from him. I want Mitch’s buck to be legit.
Jealous john 😂😂😂😂
Let cross bow hunters play in the woods. They aren't real hunters, and they definitely won't shoot the bigger bucks.
I’m so sick of the xbow is cheating talk, John why don’t you use a long bow without scent lok? Because scent lok gives you an advantage. So why can’t a person use a xbow?
Yes sir.people complaining need to ditch the compound cell cams and scent lock.then you can speak on the crossbow.i use all of the above.
I totally agree with John
Crossbows have ruined the art of archery hunting.
Muzzleloaders have a season, Bows have one. Guns hava a season. Perhaps crossbows should have one.
That said.... a 30/30 doesnt have the range of a 7 mag. Some muzzleloaders can shoot 250 no problem. I mean, is that primitive?
There is no right answer. I think what is more important than the weapon season, etc. Is management of the deer herd. Having competent people responsible for the care of deer population and buck/doe ratios, free from political bias is what we need.
Crossbow, compound bow , traditional bow, rifle , shotgun, pistol, rocket launcher, hand grenade or spear there is no right or wrong way to kill anything , killing is killing regardless …
Amen John I'm a bowhunter only by choice even though I am physically limited on draw weight because of health issues. Gun hunting just doesn't give me that rush. I love bowhunting and as long as I'm able to pull the legal draw weight I will shoot a vertical bow. Happy hunting and GOD BLESS
Michigan needs to be one buck state, with a period that the antler restriction is 8+ for 3 years.
I think everyone should have to go back to spear hunting 😂
You can't tell me crossbow and vertical bow is the same. To me vertical bow is so much more challenging and thats the point. I dont gun hunt anymore because I feel like its out of respect for the animal that I should have to work hard to harvest one. Thats literally the point. Everyone wants to kill big bucks and that's all that matters to guys these days. It is so much more intimate shooting an animal with a vertical bow. John is great. Learned more from him than any other hunter.
100% agreed on the old bow hunters being stuck up assholes
Crossbows are merely a poaching tool. Pair it with a 4 wheeler and less than honorable people and its a disaster.
It’s not bow hunting , it’s crossbow hunting
Disagree on many points. Lets just all get along even though we have different views and stand strong as a hunting community. We can all agree that we love to hunt so stop bashing how each person decides to approach it.
Smug
Both arguments for and against the vertical bow and the crossbow are virtually the same. The problem is, each are about personal opinion. The crossbow guy argues about full inclusion because his level of hunting is perhaps subordinate to a vertical bow hunter under the guise of "inclusion". The vertical hunter argues about the difficulty because his level of hunting is perhaps superior to a crossbow and never claims "exclusion", when in fact that's exactly what he is doing......and I'm saying this as a bow hunter. Your argument ended as they all do. In fact, neither hunter is affirming that both hunters need each other to survive, because the vast majority of the human populous is grossly disgusted by hunting in general, and our enemy SHOULD NOT BE the other guy who chooses to hunt differently than us, even falling withing the realm of legality. In fact, the only thing that should matter, is if it is in fact legal, and if you don't like the laws, unite independently and change those rules or laws through legislation. Bickering back and forth and giving examples as to why your/my side is better seems almost childish. You do you. I'll do me. Screw the rest! Good day!
I agree with John on the crossbows
I take comfort in the fact that I've learned how to hunt the ridges of SW Pennsylvania. Yeah I'll not take a 170" buck that way but I've learned a skill set that gives me plenty of room to hunt without a ton of competition. Not many guys like to hunt Rocky sreep ankle busting hills and ridges. Last year I managed a 103" buck and I've killed up to 140 incher. Quite a challenge but it's an accomplishment to get it done.
I hunt public land in the Ozarks. Chasing bucks in the Ozarks is my passion and although I have hunted leases nothing comes close to to the wild woods.
I hunt public in the Ozarks as well. It’s tough hunting, but it’s rewarding when you connect.
Is there big bucks in the ozarks
I hunt Public land in South Central Kentucky. In the Danielle Boone, it's my passion as well. Everything about being in those woods is nothing short of magnificent. Watching the sun rise over the hills is like watching god tell you good morning. I can spot and stalk every direction for miles and never cross private property. I've had a bear charge at me, I've watched bald eagles fly off a cliff and dive into the river and come out with a fish back to their nest. So many stories of wild life, My son turned 16 this year so now I have a buddy to do it with. All the worries in the world melt away as soon as you get out of the vehicle.
There are but takes patience and a lot of luck. When the army if orange hits the woods the big guys go nocturnal.
No big deer in Michigan because they don't let them get old enough it's pretty simple.
With John, crossbows are the lazy man’s way of bow hunting. I shoot year round every single day inside or out it’s my relaxing time after dinner. It’s my way of Life🏹🏹
Lazy? I've crossbow hunted here in Ohio(where we don't hand out bow participation trophies) for over 20 years and I've walked more miles and drug more deer than you'll ever comprehend. Go ahead and hide up in a tree where it takes zero skill to kill a deer and think you're special.... you're not. 10 year old kids and 98lb women can shoot a bow and take deer. It's actually lazy to make your comment thinking a hunting implement makes you something. Just hunt. Do you. Others will do them. If you want a challenge, hunt on the ground.
@@papalou13 I’m 66 and have shot a bow since I was 6 ( a recurve) and have off ground for 15 years. Hunted elk in Colorado for 16 years ( no tree stands) back packing into wilderness areas by my self with 60 lbs on my back even at 66. Shot my 41st turkey with my bow this year. When I say lazy I mean you don’t have to practice just sight in and your ready to go. I shoot over 10,000 arrows a year and don’t see how anyone can get excited about shooting anything with a crossbow. Just my humble option.
@@bryanmoorefield8890 certain bow hunters are the only people in the hunting community that think their weapon of choice is special and the only way. Sadly, their is nothing special about it. I bought a bow at a garage sale for $35 with mismatched arrows and practiced for one day and then killed a 14pt the next day with it. I didn't celebrate the bow, I celebrated hunting and the buck. 12 year old kids and 98 lb women can shoot a bow, so it's hardly some great manly feat. Then comes the topic of ethical quick harvesting of the quarry. I hear of 5-10 lost or injured animals every year by archers who "shoot all year at the club".
If I use a cannon, but call it a large caliber rifle, does that make it a rifle...no. To each his own, but I can remember back when guys were proud they could head to the woods in October before the rifle guys with a weapon that took time and practice to hone. It felt like a special time in the woods. Now crossbows have blurred the line so badly between "is a crossbow a bow or is it a rifle". Crossbow guys get lost in the argument of "ohh i bet you aren't shooting a long bow with stick arrows" but they miss the point entirely.
Ok, so a crossbow is easier and it's one size fits all, I still have to buy the proper license, wake up drive to my hunting spot, climb up in my stand, be scent conscious, have woodsmanship skills coming in and out and sit in all kinds of weather. Just because you like a vertical bow better that shouldn't cause any discrimaination against me and when I can hunt.
how is that any different that a gun hunter?
Not sure what you mean? But I'll say this. I had to go Crossbow because of a cervical problem. I had a medical reason for using the crossbow but I still believe anyone should be able to use a crossbow during any legal bow season.
@@stndpenguin
You kill a 120 deer anywhere within 50 miles of where I live and "you have done something". Rifle or not. Much less with a bow .
The One Buck Rule has completed turned my home state of Indiana around, in a good way, when it comes to having more mature bucks on the landscape. People are more picky, more bucks get to live. The One Buck Rule works and it works well. That's a fact. I also agree with John 100% on the subject of crossbows. My children are both disabled, in wheelchairs. Their arms are too weak to use a vertical bow. It makes them sick to see abled bodied people, taking the lazy way out, opting for a crossbow, when these people should be celebrating the fact that they have perfectly good working arms, that can be used for drawing back a bow!!!!!! But, people being people, especially now a days, want the easy way out. They want as close to quick, and guaranteed success as possible, with as little work required as possible, so....the crossbow fits the bill, right up there with cell cams. Rant over
Crossbows eliminate the most difficult part of bow hunting. Having to draw back and move in close proximity of an animal is what makes archery hunting so challenging.
John has helped me become a complete bow hunter. I am not privileged enough to have large property to hunt! I hunt public lands here in Michigan. Him and Dan Infalt have helped me so much!!
It’s always a good debate/topic for people who can actually have a reasonable debate no matter what anyone thinks DNR for each state classifies archery equipment, my state, particularly was one of the first to allow crossbows into archery season been in Ohio. I took my first deer ever with a compound. And I practiced with that compound for years, probably three or four before I ever took it into the woods. But now I strictly use a Crossbow for hunting season. It is always funny to me how people think you need to have the hardest way to kill an animal or you’re not a real hunter I’m a firm believer in Hunt smarter not harder…. But that’s all right because you’re truly not a real man until you’re shooting a long bow or recurve with out all that fancy equipment the compound bow has. Generally speaking, I love it when people say, crossbows are not part of archery let’s go back and look at the history of crossbows, because crossbows have been archery almost since the beginning of time way back in the BC crossbows have dated back a long time way before compound bows ever came to market
@blacksrfm did those BC crossbows have scopes? Did you have to physically pull it back or did they have little cranks like today? Scope and trigger, not archery. So is an air gun that shoots arrows archery too?
They need to make crossbow less powerful
I agree with Daniel. Everyone should get the same season open date. You are not better or more deserving of a good hunt.
When you hunt public land the playing field should be equal. I don’t need a bunch of idiots stomping around with their cross bows all October. You want to do that on your private land in your nice double ladder stand go ahead
@@tannerlamb6501 The playing field is equal. You chose to shoot a stick bow.
I am too more deserving if i put in the work to earn the privilege of hunting the special season. Why do you want into it without doing the same?
@@cjr4497 Having 2 arms doesn't make you more deserving. And to my knowledge there is no amount of work for that achievement. Are you a child?
Crossbows have increased the number of injured deer. No one practices because it's so easy... Also makes it easier for poachers. They can take a raven and shoot twice the distance. I think like John... Use only during gun or unless disabled.
Totally disagree. But do agree anyone with a disability or physical limitation should be able to use a crossbow in any season, any state.
I started with the crossbow and have now converted to the compound bow. I enjoy the compound bow more for some of the reasons that John mentions. It's more of a craft, more of a commitment, more of a challenge. But I would never want to take the crossbow away from those who love it, or shorten their season. As long as the deer population stays healthy in a given region who care what gear other people use, as long as they are safe and ethical.
Crossbows don't belong in archery only season.
Would compound bows belong in a hypothetical crossbow only season?
@@stephendowning6234 nope, and I wouldn't cry about it either.
@@stephendowning6234 A crossbow only season doesn't make sense. The reason archery is so difficult, besides the range, is having to draw the bow and move in close proximity of an animal. Crossbows take the most difficult part out of the equation.
John I respectfully disagree I can pick my mathews compound bow up on the day before season and shoot half dozen arrows and it's dead on! These compound bows today are so advanced they are as deadly as crossbows! Anyone who claims there not is full of shit
My opinion . Hunting training courses should first come with a monetary cost .
Hunter training courses should be more stringent to show proficiency with weapon of choice .
In my circles most hunter are week end worries . Hardly proficient, while taking way less than high percentage shots .
Most of the time they don’t even know if there bow is in tune or not , let alone the proper arrows .
We all started somewhere in the hunting world , I get it , but there just doesn’t seem like a willingness to go the extra mile respecting the privilege and the animal being hunted . My opinion .
As a Kansas resident, I as well as many people I know have been “squeezed” out of hunting access from leasing private property to out of State use on public lands. Yes, 30000 bow hunters seems so low comparatively to other states but most of the prime deer habitat is located in the Eastern 3rd of the State.
My dad will be 76 this year. He has had 2 shoulder surgeries the last 10 years. He still refuses to go to the dark side. He just didn't bow hunt those years he couldn't draw. Crossbows are not bow hunting. They are a joke and it is disingenuous for this D&D guy to make his argument that they are okay for ARCHERY season when he knows damn well. When they became legal here for archery season the gun guys all bought them up. More deer are killed with crossguns in my state than with with vertical bows despite the fact that we have double the number of vertical bow hunters! Let that sink in. Just another blow to our public lands. I have relatives that have tried to bow hunt in the past and gave up on it because it was too hard. Well, they all got Raven's now and all say it is a joke that they allow the things in archery season. My local sporting goods store doesn't even carry vertical bows anymore because they can't sell them!
Great debate, i agree crossbow hunting brought alot of people into hunting, but should have their own season. Great info.
I love all of my fellow hunters
I am a public land hunter in the upper pensiala I been shot at by accident lol no one knew I was on the ground hunting they just stop to shot there hand guns in the middle of nowhere..... had a gentleman hanging out at my truck at dusk excusing of hunting his tree stand wanna fight me ... With that said as hunters we need to got along an stop worrying about a big buck we need to remember God put deer hear as food before there was any scoring of inches or of that nature.... for the love of God no more deer shaming an let's share are public lands safely!!! Let's have a great 2023 fall an remember how an why we all got in to deer hunting! 🦌
Bow hunting is the best sport ever known to man
Crossbows. I have been hunting for 42 years and have killed dozens and dozens of deer with rifles and compounds. I have chosen now to hunt with a recurve crossbow. I do not have time to shoot a compound all summer to be proficient, my family comes first. However I have a love for hunting, and it is not about killing a deer for me. Now it is about killing a mature deer on public land in PA (lots of pressure). I choose to use a crossbow because it is legal, lethal, and efficient. My limit is 30 yards and has always has been with a bow. For me, it is about the hunt, not the kill. I put over 100 miles scouting in the winter and early spring for next fall. I hope you all have a safe and successful season.
It amazes me how much hate someone can get for using an efficient tool! That is the reason I have been a gun, Hunter for most of my life, but since centerfire rifles are not allowed on most of the public land that I am near, I have to make compromises.
For John , or anyone else to claim that you do not have to practice with a crossbow is simply asinine.
I have been bowhunting for 50 yrs and have used everything from an osage selfbow with homemade arrows to crossbows and have enjoyed all of it, I have seen and heard from way to many purists about this or that should not be allowed, And every year these same people wound and lose animals, As well as many compound and crossbow shooters, Everyone should practice no matter what the weapon, I find dead dear every yr on my propery after gun season. Lots of hunters just dont care or think they dont need to shoot often . My son would not be a deer hunter if it had not been for crossbows, He has missed 2 nice bucks at 30 yrds, So it is not a slam dunk.
Being a official Boone and Crockett scorer it's pretty easy to tell the difference from a wild deer to one that's came from a pen.
Do you know the guys who scored the King Buck?
They're farming deer not hunting them. Hollywood hunters ruined it. I started hunting Iowa in the early 90's. Every farmer would let ya hunt by the late 90's it was turning Hollywood big blinds with logos all over. Not to mention the tag $'s.
I had to turn off my ozone machine last year because the deer were smelling it. I was on private land in a box blind. As soon as I turned it off they calmed down and came in to the feeder.
Ok John I think scentlock shouldn’t be allowed. Also 80 yards is absolute bullshit.
Great discussion guys! Respect for both of you!
The whole crossbow debate will never be settled but from a state $$ angle, crossbows equal income. That is the bottom line!
I’m not a huge fan of extra tags for youth weekends or 1st time hunter weekends but they bring they $$ in🤷♂️
If it keeps or brings in more hunters, that’s the best we can hope for right now. Sad but true.
Thanks,
Will
Probably should have atlatl season get rid of bow and crossbow
I remember when Michigan allowed everybody to use crossbows. It used to be just for the elderly and disabled. A kid in my school said "I think I'll try bowhunting now that crossbows are allowed." I thought no you won't, you're going gun hunting that shoots an arrow. I just don't understand why people aren't attracted to the thrill and challenge of hunting with a regular bow
I don't get why compound and crossbows our allowed they our not bows and both our about the same release let off ect. How about make our own bows or if such a issue Knapp points use a altlatl . See the logic . As kid I called scopes cheaters and up there with a crossbow so probably should all not worry about who uses what or we should go back to traditional bows and black powder
I know what you mean, modern compounds seem like they're just as easy to shoot as a crossbow. Crazy seeing people kill deer at 60 yards or farther with a bow. That's an average shot with my rifle where I hunt. To each their own I guess, it just bothers me when people think they need a crossbow. I would love to hunt with self made bows and arrows! If we all did I think there would certainly be way more deer to chase
@@colebesonen8809 right on bud I don't think we should fight about it and both have advantages. Boy there be lot deer your right if we used traditional archery. Good comment 👍
@@wadetaylor1299 I appreciate it thanks man, I appreciate your replies
@@colebesonen8809 you bet bud thanks for yours . 60 yards is about a Average shot with rifle in the woods most I've shot were around that
John 100% dead on, these gun hunters take up cross bow hunting then wound deer after deer because they’re not archery hunters they hit a deer with their cross bow and act like they just shot one with their good ole 30-06. Don’t understand angles, blood trailing, or really anything about being an archery hunter 🤷🏻♂️
That doesn't make much sense. I'm old now+use a Xbow, but I used a compound for years. I've wounded, killed+ missed deer with both! Blood trailing is necessary whether using a bow OR a gun. Also, I bought a Hawke scope, synced out to 100 yds. I started at 20,30,40... By the time I got to 80, my bag target looked like a DOT! So, I was trying to hit a dot with a dot. Another inch to the rt, and I would have lost my bolt forever( shooting in the woods). So, they are not 30.06's; you can't focus your scope once you get it synced(like a rifle's), so, the farthest I ever shot a deer was about 40. Anyway, enjoy your hunt this year, whatever you use, and good luck.
@@turtleman5111 So you’re an archery hunter turned crossbow hunter… im obviously referring to the majority of people which are rifle hunter turned crossbow hunter
Yeah, I knew a guy, rip, that wounded a deer 4 days in a row and 6 total in a season with his crossgun. I know another guy that was trying to head and neck shoot deer at 50-60 with his cross gun because that is what he did gun hunting!
Illinois has withdrawn QDM from most public lands.....JEPC no longer 4pt or better....I no longer hunt there
Ok. So based on watching this great channel, I used a 2.25 cut, 125 grain Swacher this year. Ravin R10.
Deer lived 30 seconds. Thank You. Love my R10
This was in UP
Who's Mitch?
Mitch Rompola, the guy who shot potentially the new world record archery buck. Ended up being very controversial.
Mitch is the more humble and down to earth hunter than jealous John
Great debate. I hunted with a vertical bow until an elbow injury didn't allow me to draw. Hunted with a crossbow for a year and DID NOT feel like an archer. Got the elbow fixed and went back to vertical. Crossbows have nothing to do with the discipline of archery. I also don't agree with being able to shoot what you want on your land. The game on your land does not belong to you it belongs to the people of the state/country. Regs are there for the overall health of the herd.
John is such a great ambassador for the sport of bowhunting. I love his honesty and the ability to be an adult when he disagrees with someone else instead of acting a fool like some others do. One of the best bow hunters to ever live
He is ?
Ask him about how many bucks he shot at night and the foot ball player he used to go get them. Then ask him about the Alpena boat motor that he took and went back to return. He’s not even close to Rompola.
Keep makin videos
What has he done lately?
@@pcrhuntingDo you have any proof of this? Was it recently or 30+ years ago?
Wouldn’t matter if it was 50-100 years ago.
That’s called living off a fake image
@pcrhunting well one disappeared off the face of the earth and one is in every podcast and RUclips channel.possible.
i been hunting since i was 12 yrs and killing big matured buck is super hard… i’ve seen lots of big 140”-160” classes on private property, but hunting high fences doesn’t required any skills except opening your wallet to buy it… hunting high fence deer is just like shopping, no differences, because if you have the money you can shoot any monster buck there…
i know how it is, because i wanted my 14 yrs old son to bag his first buck over in his life…he never had any training about hunting except got his hunting permit and license…hunting deer in high fence doesn’t required skills, it’s just like shopping, as long as you have the money you can shoot any matured buck you wanted it…
i put my son on a food plot and after 5:40pm the velvet 9 point non typical 160” came out and he just point the gun at it and bang its dead…if hunting high fence was hard then there’s no way my 14yrs old son would never get that buck in his life time?!
Great Podcast ,I love John's entire perspective on Hunting. I mounted my first deer with a bow ( a Doe ) that I shot from the ground, before the Baker & T.S.S climbing tree-stands were available. I'm more proud of that deer than any of the Biggest bucks that I've shot over the last 45 years.
I grew up hunting in rural west Texas. Hunt in a deer blind 10' of the ground shooting at a feeder 100 yards away. I could eat pancakes, play pandora on my phone, run my buddy heater and have coffee and have great success..
i truly agreed with john on what he said about cross bow… i believe that any young kids can use it, elderly, or disabled is permitted, otherwise capable spent be…
i’m disabled from my motorcycle accident and i can shoot a cross bow, but i preferred to use a compound bow, because it’s more challenging and required skills…
I've seen these types of hunting videos with these huge bucks on high fencing, I think it's just awful,, half of those "Trophy" type deer are not even timid or fearful of ppl. And the prices astronomically outrageous!! Out of state licenses are way to high as well. We won't even go there about the high fence ranches that breathe dear with antlers so big they can't even hold their head up. SMFFH
All just make our own bows Knapp our points use pine rezin for fletchings off your birds ya shoot split em with a stone knife or use the atlatl perhaps. How a release and all new features come out every year makes compound not look much different than crossbow
I have a personal lake that's all private and have caught state record fish and won't put them in the books because it shouldn't be allowed in my eyes even though it is allowed
Ohio doesn't practice QDM 😂
My first deer was a button buck. I only euro mount and his skull is up on the wall by the rest of them
I love that you can respectfully disagree
Deer are like cockroaches in my area. They are infested and cause a lot of wrecks. You can shoot 2 bucks a season and 3 does a day everyday for 4 months. Glad they let hunters use crossbows and anything else to try and knock the numbers back. I quit worrying about camo. Sometimes I wear my work clothes that I sweat in all day. Bam, still shoot deer easily. I go to the big public land tracks here sometimes. It is a little more challenging but still big herds.
Damn that's wild. What state if you don't mind me asking?
Tennessee, not the whole state but in the L counties this is how it is. The regulations for other counties are not as liberal. I am near FT Campbell, it is tore up with deer around here.
@@gordonneverdies
Crossbows should not be used in regular archery season, I see this show is sponsored by a crossbow company.
Can’t bite the hand that feeds you.
John is a stand up guy for sure!
Every time I hear DS speak I just shake my head..
Thanks, Rich! I shake my head, too. Have a blessed day.
@@danschmidtdeer We just disagree…
As long as hunters are safe and respect thier game laws, other hunters, etc. they should not be hassled for their choice of equpment. I can remember back in the 70's being treated like I was a completly unethical hunter for shooting a compound bow. Let's get over the stigmas for crossbows, airbows, air guns, blackpowder, etc. If its legal and you're hunter welcome aboard.
Who cares what you hunt with, we need to unite as hunters. Remember hunting isn't a right it's a privilege.
Blah, blah, blah.
John is just like the rest...
awesome !! crossbows should not be used by any healthy person only handicap or elderly . period
Chill dork
The same people who complain about crossbows are often using compound bows. Ironic.
@@Gildog77Are you of the opinion that compounds are as easy as crossbows?
@russelllangworthy8855 no. But if people are going to be true archery purists, wouldn't that rule out compounds? My stance is that whatever people can legally and ethically take a deer with, is fine. I'd rather have someone take a deer with a crossbow, then wound it with a vertical bow.
@@Gildog77 I really don’t pay much attention to the crossbow debate. I don’t care what anyone else uses.
I always saw compounds the way compound shooters seem to see crossbows. Both are for people that can't or choose not to shoot a real bow for whatever reason.
Excellent comparison.
I don't like john because of his cockiness to beating a deer nose. But he is right about crossbows me and my friends archery hunt and all got crossbows as a backup because they are ez mode
Ive never understood when guys cheat and act like there big bad hunters . How is that pride? Its spineless. u still gota look at yourself in The mirror 🪞 every day. I would lose all respect for myself if i had to lie and cheat to get the bragging status these guys get. Ive never understood these guys , how does that feel Good?. 😐😢