I always looked at the Mysterious Stranger as a main protagonist in their own story and they happen to cross paths with you on yours and their adventures. Think about how many times you are just wandering the wastes at a high level and see a civilian being attacked by raiders or whatever. You vats them from a distance or walk up quickly dispatch of them easily and move on about your day without a word? The mysterious stranger is just a really high level protagonist in another story that wanders through the area lends a hand and gets a bit of xp and moves on.
I think the Mysterious stranger and the unknown around him is cool. but I feel that once the games tell us everything about him, he won't be as mysterious anymore thus losing all the interest around him
I think it would be cool if there was like a dlc for a fallout game where you become a mysterious stranger and protect people in danger like the silver shroud questline
I imagine that there are some entities who are beyond the understanding of mere humans. These include the occult Cthulu monsters worshipped, but also Dogmeat and the Mysterious Stranger. They are spirits of the Wasteland!
The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
@@foofoo3344 But on the other hand, it's not that much of a deal when a random Samurai gets kidnapped, like almost no consequences to the future. Technically it's a divergence yes, but I think the biggest point is that transistors were never invented and maybe alien technology speeding up research for laser and plasma weaponry, along with energy production.
Okay so, the thing is, you can have fictional events before your divergence. The divergence is just really when things take a radical turn. Otherwise the divergence would be in the feudal era of japan, with a samurai getting abducted by aliens, if not even earlier.
id say that sunset sasparilla was probably supposed to be an irl brand, eg rockstar energy (cause they in vegas) but cause licensing they changed it, therefore its just different id say that chernobyl never happened, and we didnt fear nuclear weapons, we embraced them
It's actually really funny to me that the mysterious stranger was never written off as just a part of the game, instead Bethesda canonized him and had Nick Valentine look into the mystery
He was canonised first in New Vegas, you meet the Mysterious Stranger's son. Obsidian were even going to have him kill you if you targeted his son in VATS at one point.
My head canon is that The Brotherhood gave the order to kill Sarah. They saw Sarah as "soft" like her father. Arthur Maxson was young and could be easly manupulated into deciding anything they wanted. I also think The Brotherhood blamed The Lone Wanderer for her death. The Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 doesnt say anything about him/her even though his/her actions have huge ramifications for The Brotherhood of Steel. After the Lone Wanderer got blame for Sarah's death, he/she disappeared from The Capital Wasteland.
Nah. The Lone Wanderer doesn't get mentioned because Bethesda has a policy against trying to set down definite details about what the players did in the previous game, in an effort to not step on our toes and invalidate our playthroughs.
I think Sunset Sarsaparilla is part of our timeline. Lots of companies claim an early founding date, but when you investigate, that early date was prior to being bought out by another company. Who's to say the SS company wasn't something else prior to WW2 - a company that went out of business or was never bought by SS.
The hexcrete pillars seem like a reference to the 50s sci first classic "the Monolith Monsters". The movie centers around an alien element falling to earth, that rapidly forms immense ultra hard crystals when exposed to oxygen. The crystals become so big they topple over in a tidal wave of gigantic stones. Their encroachment threatens a small NM community and a scientisthas to stop it.
The fact that the hexagonic pillars from old world blues can grow out of the ground really does mess with me seeing how put them in anyone else's hands and you have a weapon and everyone will be basically screwed
Raggedy: That’s exactly what they were meant to be in my opinion, since this entire DLC was basically an homage to 50s sci-fi it stands to reason that they would use that plot point from a cult 50s sci-fi film. Half the reason this is my favorite DLC from New Vegas is the countless references to some of my favorite 50s sci-fi films including Forbidden Planet, The day the earth stood still, War of the worlds, Black scorpion etc. etc. etc.
@@KevinR1138 Makes me think of that one story where water from outer space is first thought of as the solution to all the problems, but then turns out to be infectious and deadly.
To me, the most mysterious thing about fallout was in far harbor, having visions of (and following) the 'mother' spirit during the children of the atom quest.
There's actually a cabin you can find with notes and stealth boys. It's theorized this is the person you saw as "The Mother" after getting messed up by the Springs.
@@MillieBlackRose Yes I remember vaguely; it was a woman the children of the atom want you to seek out and assassin, (or another woman thats tied to that woman?)
@@MillieBlackRose Nevermind im thinking of a reference to The Mother in the pump control room, there's a 2nd Icon of her in there as well as the one you get initially.
People also forget that in the one game you could choose to become a force for good or evil. For good you would wear a trench coat and every evil person you killed would gain you karma. Adding to the theory mysterious stranger is a title given to multiple people.
Oh, there's something like that in FO3, you collect fingers of evil people as "proof" of your good deeds and they give caps for that They also give you their "uniform"
Fallout 3, are you talking about the Lawbringer/Contract Killer Perk? While the outfits of the Regulators are Dusters and Cowboy hats, different from what the stranger wears. Plus the Regulators have tight membership and they would know who the Stranger was.
This was a common knowledge when I was playing and still probably can be found on wiki, one of the big divergences was, they didn't invent micro-transistors. That's why everything is big and bulky and that's why technology differs from us. However, around the time before great war, they finally invent micro - transistors so fallout universe suppose to looks like our universe if they keep continue using it.
@@uni4rm micro vacuum tubes are still infinitely more bulky than the integrated circuit, and just as fragile. Part of the reason micro electronics caught on in our timeline is precisely because they were more durable and their size couldn't be matched.
"They didn't invent transistors" was a myth arising from aesthetic confusion at seeing vacuum tubes at all in the original mixed-modern/retrofuturistic presentation of the original games,, deepened by Bethesda's aesthetic treatment of the franchise (wherein everything just stopped in WW2, stylistically; NCR troopers and Nate both dressed like they were in WW2, Korea at latest). Integrated circuits are represented in FO1 and FO2. There are desktop computers the size and external style of those that existed when the first Fallout games came out, which are then named as only dumb terminals (and yet still operate autonomously) with a much more retro style by Bethesda. You can look at Fallout's original energy weapons, and then how Bethesda later shoves a bunch of vacuum tubes into them that they didn't have before. It is very much something they played up for aesthetics. "Around the time before the great war," as you put it -- 2077 -- was much later than the first canonical mention of transistors in 2023, per Jack Cabot. The thing is, the year when transistors were invented in canon is never specified. People have claimed it, but no one has ever cited a source. As far as them *never* being invented, there are more sources for that, but you have to read them carefully to see that it was a design idea, not necessarily an accepted canon. Furthermore, EMP is effective against robots, which would not be the case if they ran entirely on vacuum tubes. I know everybody wants things wrapped up in some neat explanation, but this is just an inconsistent presentation of technology in the Fallout universe.
@@VitriolicVermillion transistors were available at the same time they were in our timeline. It's not the transistor which was the technologic bottleneck to microelectronics, it's the integrated circuit. It is canon that the integrated circuit was not widely adopted until the dying throes of society and even then it hadn't been common long enough to replace consumer tech.
For the very first mystery: Divergence probably happened when the aliens arrived to Earth and started messing around, which was way before ww2 considering the samurai in mothership zeta. That's the earliest point I can think of.
The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
@Bonniebell Roberts Mothership Zeta isn’t canon because Bethesda said it was. All the other dlc is canon because it’s in the game and Bethesda hasn’t stated otherwise. No idea how you came to your conclusion
The mercenaries of fallout are not necessarily being paid by anyone. They're largely organised raiders who are up for hire, which is actually much like real mercenaries in history who tended to turn to banditry when not working for anyone. Aristotle wrote that it is sometimes best to hire mercenaries even if you don't need them just to stop them from ravishing your lands.
My own personal head cannon about the Great Divergence is that the timelines have always been separated, with only minor divergences happening throughout it but causing any real difference, that is until the greatest of all divergences happen and completely split it away.
Yeah that mine aswell. They are completly seperated and up until 1945 things were pretty similiar , almost identical, but then things diverged radical because technological advancement in both lines was massivly accelerated after WW2 leading to more differences.
i say there were several divergences- military, political, cultural. technology in late 40s (no transistor chips), music in late 60s. ussr somehow surviving post 1990s.; then cold war shifting to prc in 21st century. and now- no robert edwin house born in 2020
Yeah I agree. The main difference is in the 1940s, but before that like you say. I think the concept of a divergence doesn't even fit with Fallout. This isn't alternate reality in a multiverse or comparative sense, it's just world building and it owes nothing to the real world.
@@malik740 Kind of like stretching a rubber band. More and more stress is added until if finally snaps post-WW2. One example is the Washington Monument is not constructed in the Fallout timeline the same way as it is in ours.
i really think that “is atom real” is a kind of tame and easy to answer question when you’re talking about the game where there’s occult lovecraft entities and alien invaders and interlopers invading our reality and weird black obelisks showing up.
Here's one mystery you could make a part 2 eventually. In New Vegas its pretty common knowledge how much Courier 6 traveled. One mystery is where exactly did Courier 6 come from? All you get really is rumors and places he/she has been but no real source of origin. The Boneyard maybe? The Hub? It's hard to say. Even Ulysses from Lonesome Road will tell you, "You've walked farther than I have." According to Ulysses, the Courier has been to Circle Junction, New Reno, Vault City, Fort Abandon, and on brahmin drives at the Big Circle. Just how far did Courier 6 walk the wastes? Is it possible he/she might have traveled to the Capital Wasteland? Maybe the Commonwealth?
I pretty sure there's a picture of the lone wanderers parents or someone from the capital wasteland in vault 21, so cross country travel isn't impossible
@@insomniagobrrr5542 I'm forced to agree. I don't think Courier 6 is the LW from Fallout 3. I know there's a mod called TTW, Tale of Two Wastelands, but mostly that's just mod based not actual canon. Besides if Courier 6 is the LW, why wasn't he/she aware of Wasteland Survival Guide in game somehow? Nah I think Courier 6 might have originally been been born somewhere in the NCR. Aradesh maybe or even New Reno.
Given the fallout bible isn't canon I personally don't belive that there is a divergance, its just an alternate/parralell timeline that has some common events that cross over with ours.
The Fallout Bible may not be canon any more but look at what Bethesda has done to the lore. I'd rather follow the defunct bible that whatever swill Bethesda is trying to push off as lore.
I take any canon/almost-canon explanation of a divergence to be just shorthand explanation for history is not SIGNIFICANTLY different before WW2. I don't see reason to see it as part of a divergence in the time travel or multiverse or alternative reality sense. The differences are just for world building and it's a similar, parallel world.
Hey man, really loving the longer form content. I was looking for some alternatives to the more popular Fallout-focused channels. I'm not a super huge shorts fan, so I'm thankful you make really awesome long form content as well. Keep it up!
FO4 has an additional reference to the mysterious stranger, if I remember correctly. I think one of the police stations has a dead raider in it, next to a terminal. The terminal has a log detailing his obsession with (and eventual death by) the mysterious stranger.
Man I remember getting into fallout a few years ago and there was hardly any fallout RUclipsrs this is awesome to see how much traction the games have picked up since
I always imagined that the Mysterious Stranger was some ambiguous immortal ancestor to the bloodline which spawned all the protagonists. Dog Meat is also HIS dog, not ours.
@@ILIKEOTTERS Yeah, thank you, when I played these games in my youth, I really put effort into that theory, and others I suppose. The only pertinent expansion to that theory I'd like to add is that I also assumed Dog Meat was possibly the stranger's method of tracking his bloodline.
Speaking of Sarah Lions. There is a fan made mod Called Exiles and Reminisce, which allows you to meet up with a group of Brotherhood members who are now in exile who are still loyal to Elder Lions’ ideas and that Sarah Lions is alive hiding from the Brotherhood. In the Mod you can have Sarah Lions take back control of the Brotherhood of Steel replacing Author Maxim. Reminisce is a fun fan explanation to who is paying the Gunners it is the Reminisce of the Enclave from Fallout 3.
I always believed the mysterious stranger is a blessing given to an individual by some kind of luck deity as the perk is always tied to luck in the base games.
The Mysterious Stranger could be an immortal entity related to a luck god. We know that the supernatural stuffs like H.P. Lovecraft's stuff exists in the Fallout universe. So, it makes sense that there is some sort of luck related deity.
The divergence happened when Zetans first came into the Solar system and kidnapped various people throughout the history. Or when the Eldritch beings were created long before the big bang.
The interloper is Indrid Cold.. another legend attached to the moth man legend. Since the lore seems to be the same for the most part, as real life lore.. getting into the lore of the area will help. There’s a series called “Hellier”, that gets into all of that pretty deeply.
The divergence point was the development of the microprocessor. You can tell because instead of technology becoming slimmer and more compact, they got bulkier and more reliant on nuclear energy.
The creators say the divergence was after 1945. But the Cabot story starts thousands of years ago. The most popular theory is that the alien contact, which left the helm, was the divergence. And the aliens are the difference. Their small touches over the years caused the divergence, which wasn't evident until after WW2, but started long before.
i like the idea that the Mysterious Stranger is the Vault Dweller (F1) from the future. the Stranger/Dweller has the ability to travel back through time but only does so to save your player character from combat that would have killed you otherwise. this is why he’s a man because the canon Vault Dweller is a man. it’s also why the Stranger appears as a man or woman depending on what gender you pick in the first Fallout. the Stranger is you.
There's even an event on fallout 1 that sends the dweller back in time and end up breaking the water chip... And if my memory is correct, you must pick up a rock that is part of a statue for that to happen, sooo the dweller might learn how to properly use it after the ending.
I always take Nick for most of far harbor because his special story line and interaction with many of the characters there make and already wonderful dlc even more fun, deep and fascinating.
Does Miss Fortune have any expanded lore? Like the Mysterious Stranger. Or was she just a throw away character for New Vegas? I was sad when Miss Fortune didn't make it in to Fallout 4.
I like to think that Miss Fortune is a nod towards the Mistress of Mystery, but I can't remember if she was on the Unstoppables comic cover in New Vegas.
If I'm not mistaken, the main divergence point is the invention of the integrated circuit. Technology in Fallout is made with vacuum tubes, plain transistors and other fairly retro components. It wasn't until much later that the integrated circuit was implemented into the tech tree of Fallout. The Platinum Chip is an example of tech with ICs, and I think the synth tech from the Commonwealth is another. The fact that micro electronics never caught on should be the main difference in the divergence of the two timelines. The reason everything looks so retro is because everything electronic is bulky.
I like to think the mysterious stranger is a group of people. I hope that’s what it is, like maybe in future games there’s a hidden quest line that tells you a very small bit of information about the stranger in the form of a lost holotape or terminal entry that details the groups recruitment process, and then mentions people that have been vetted but didn’t pass, the first few entries being random names, then maybe the 4th or 5th name is “The Lone Wanderer”. And that’s it. Nothing else, but it would confirm that it’s a group and they looked into recruiting a character we played as that has influence and mentions in the new games. The lone wanderer was extremely influential and did a lot of good with project purity. Maybe he didn’t get recruited because he destroyed the enclave or something.
Theory: Maybe the divergence happened way into the past, like maybe even the birth of the Fallout universe, since we know that Eldrich Gods from the mind of H.P. Lovecraft exist or has been heavily hinted to exist in the Fallout universe. Since a lot of the works and books don't exist in the games but rather some key stories are actual events. Like the Cabot house in Fallout 4 where the father embarked on a journey in Egypt exactly as the one of Lovecraft's stories. There are also some mysterious creatures added to Fallout 76 as of recently as well. I personally missed the Limited time Event that involved Mothman cult and the mysterious creature that the "Enlightened" members of the cult reference to, but they do acknowledge that the presence is something stronger and otherworldly than the Mothman. Another one is the influence of the Dunwich mystery which is also considered to be almost supernatural by nature. Rituals performed by people to what seems to be a god from what we've seen to grant Immortality or wealth. A lot of history of Fallout is already diverged Pre - WW II.
1:18 The Divergence doesn’t have to be an actual “event” like you expect, but can be also a context, in the Fallout context… the divergence is that the society (at least the US society, for what we know) focused it’s development on nuclear energy instead of microtransistors and IT technology. The after is explained in the opening of the games 18:16 I don’t think they need actually to be constantly payed to be in action. Maybe it could be they just just are settling there (where we find them in game) waiting for somebody to give them a quest. In fact it’s always us most of the times that interfere with their settlements, we never encounter them randomly
One possible theory I have about the Zetans' fascination with the Giddyup Buttercup comes down to their overall ideology and society. It's implied by the layout of the mothership that the Zetans are not the type of race to have any interest in leisure and are almost entirely focused on being as productive as possible. It's possible that due to this, they're fascination of the toy comes from them simply being starved of any sort of fun that even the smallest bit of dopamine (assume their brains can even produce it) is overwhelming to them. Personally, I'm more interesting in knowing why so many Zetan pilots don't know how to fly in an atmosphere for the life of them. I don't even think you can make the argument that the crafts are not meant for atmospheric flight since the pilots would almost certainly know about that and would make sure to stay out of the atmosphere. Unless the Zetans are Kerbals in trenchcoats, then I dunno what's going on with their pilots.
Maybe its not a flight pilot decline, may e they set the crashes as a stage and once people comes to investigate the mothership snatches them up , or maybe it traitor zetans escaping the mothership but getting shot down as they start flying🤔
Makes you wonder if the 'divergence' wasn't somehow connected to the existence of lovecraftian deities in the fallout universe... (I know that dunwhich wasn't added until f.o.3 so it'd be a big retcon, but still).
The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
@@foofoo3344 An abduction isn't really a divergance. For all we know that samurai died in "our" timeline and never affected history. For the timeline to diverge from ours, history has to change on a greated scale than one person. So if Kago was returned to earth in his timeline, that would count. The real answer should still be before WW2 though, since the Zetans had been in contact for a while. The reason the writer said "I'm going to head this off now, stop asking questions." Was because they don't know and anything they choose will have huge holes in it.
@@kyleellis1825 You need to look at the butterfly effect. That one abduction could have major effect somewhere down the timeline. For example, what if an inconspicuous descendant of an unknown peasant (who's family have lived in a remote village for a long time without affecting history) who was supposed to be saved by the Samurai is somehow related to the early invention of the integrated circuit. Just because there is no immediate effect, it doesn't mean there won't be any effect. Sometimes the major changes could happen only after several centuries.
@@foofoo3344 I already said the samurai could have died (in our timeline)the same day he was abducted (in the fallout one). That negates any butterfly effects and that is my point. We don't know what the samurais fate would have been without intervention. If he had a historical name, then 100% you're right. But as it stands, we don't have enough information to state that is the point of divergence.
It was stated when the timelines splinted in Fall Out 3"s manual. And it was the transiter believe it or not. That's why computers in the Fall Out universe had vacuum tubes in them. And why it kept it's 1950's theme. I remember reading that, and thinking "Now that is some Butterfly Effect sh$t",
I love how you still talk about questions and lore about the games, unlike other Fallout RUclipsrs, most people don’t cover the games lore, but just certain buildings/peoples lore, so thank you
A brand deal with Nuka-Cola and the government lead to an early version of X-01 power armour being produced with Nuka-Cola Quantum branded shortly before the bombs, however X-01 power armour wouldn't be produced more until post-war
Well the buttercup thing easily could be linked to the nukaworld dlc. There is a quest you have deliver a buttercup to the robot who is sadden to see its been destroyed. In the same quest you realize the protectrons also had real duels with kids in a wild west format
I say retcon Sarah's death. It's happened several times in several other games, so do it here. Lol. She could pop in with the line " the tales of my death have been greatly exaggerated "
My head canon for the Mysterious Stranger is that he is a time traveller, and possibly only one person. (potential spoilers:) Remember in F2, the 'Guardian of Forever'? The random encounter that sends the player back with the sole purpose to break the actual waterchip in Vault 13 (sole purpose because that encounter ends only after breaking the chip iirc). This means it had to happen that way so the whole story of F1 could even start, and to me means that the 'Guardian of Forever' (though being a reference to a Star Trek TOS episode where it is just a time-portal) is more than just a portal but something with a purpose or sentience to guide and make things happen in a certain way. It sends that one (or possibly multiple but i don't think so) Mysterious Stranger to key moments to help the player characters in fights that could alter the expected/desirable timeline. Hell, it could even be NICK who is sent (maybe he had a human-like-looking artificial or even real skin at some point and all the damage visible on him now is just from all the countless battles he helped win).
I like the idea of atom being real because they describe division as new universes being made. So that means the great war created thousands of these universes (new games).
I read (when Fallout 3 came out) that the divergence point was the invention of the transistor, and that’s why all the technology is tube and valve based while we use transistors.
Personally I think Alistair Tenpenny as well as his other residents of his tower are the ones paying Talon Company. We know that he has contempt for Megaton since it's an "eyesore" and his karma is set to "evil". I don't think it's a stretch that he may have issues with other settlements in the area. Or maybe he uses them to secure new areas for Tenpenny to control. It could be why we see them fighting super mutants in the downtown area. Similarly, I think the rich residents of diamond city are major contributors to the Gunners in the commonwealth. For a while I thought maybe it was the institute paying them but that idea falls flat when you consider the institute can just dispatch coursers to deal with problems on the surface. I think they're also being funded by parties outside the commonwealth who may wanna drain it of it's resources or displace people to take their land. With respect to Dunwich, if Eldritch deities seemingly exist in the FO universe, I don't see why Atom can't also exist. Or at least, why can't "Atom" be another one of those Lovecraftian entities. But that's all just my opinion
The divergent point was when the transistor didn’t become popular and used vacuum tubes instead. After ww2 instead of going for smaller PC’s they opted to invest in massive super computers instead.
I think the Giddy-Up Buttercup toys on the Zetan ship is a joke. Basically it would seem they have, rather understandably, completely misinterpreted Pre-War human culture and are under the impression that the toys are extremely valuable to Pre-War humans and are studying them to try and figure out why.
Im pretty sure canonically the divergent point was the fact that in fallout they never developed a microchip. This unlocked a lot of todays modern advancements. Since they never did that they ended up using nuclear powered items as a means to get similar products. This created a need for radioactive material and a ton of mining which used a lot of resources to collect. This would have been in 1959
I hope in the next fallout be it 5 or another spinoff that the gunners are the main antagonists for a lot of the game. Kinda like in tactics where its raiders then raiders who like robots then super mutants and then the robots. I also hope in the next fallout game or future games theres a side quest centered around an order of mysterious strangers that nod to past games.
I would like for Fallout to either go to the Midwest or Canada. Chicago cause it would be an interesting place post war and is mentioned a lot in the series. I would believe Fallout's location would be located between the area of St Louis and Chicago with the Crashed Zetan Ship the Lone wanderer blew up in the DLC as reason to explore that area around the freeway and be a premise for the game.
The gunners are pretty much the eyes and ears of the enclave. Just hidden under a third company and pays them to scope out key locations and jobs. They're still mercenaries and will take the higher paying jobs if they come up. The enclave either never found a reason to go into the commonwealth or it was too risky. They did lose massively after the capital wasteland. So just hiring the gunners for the job was a better option on the table. The enclave probably would've got involved if the brotherhood never came with everything they used against them. Talon company was the same story. Their is a talon company base right north of project purity and someone gave that Intel to the enclave. It's not much of a surprise that the enclave came at the right time when they did. Not to mention that the gunners more then talon company are more like a Para military. Someone is training them, but staying hidden from who it really is. Also some is supplying them with military gear and hardware. Who would have a giant abundance of military gear?
I swear the ECBOS is the most misunderstood and lied about faction in all of Fallout. Arthur did not fully restore the chapter to the standards of the WC, in fact the chapter is still has protecting Wastelanders as their top priority. (hence their restoration of roads, conflicts with Gunners and Raiders, etc.) What Arthur did to bring the Outcasts back into the fold was point out that dangerous tech can still be contained or destroyed, that they can do both. (as that action does protect Wastelanders) Heck most of their new recruits are Wastelanders!
I always understood that the main 'divergence' was that in the fallout universe they never invented the transitor, which is about 1955, and that they embraced nuclear powered technology, and then many events followed to further diverge our realities
For the divergence question, it’s even farther back than the 1918 Sunset Sarsaparilla thing. In Mothership Zeta one of the people the Zetans captured was Toshiro Kago. From what I looked up he was born before 1562. So making it be almost 700 years since Toshiro was picked up.
I do like the divergence being a mystery in the fallout universe. It makes things like the mysterious stranger, the cosmic horror in 3&4 involving the dunwhich borers, the disappearance of dr zimmer, it really brings an element of mystery in an rpg like fallout.
Fun Fact: The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
You bring up something interesting, what if the mysterious strangers were all apart of an organization, like the fallout cia or sometbing. Their coats and revolver are very authority figure like.
_The Mysterious stranger ~_ Possibly a highly advanced, early prototype Synth; with built in Stealth Boy technology incorporated into his body. Project cancelled when the Synth became sentient and escaped the Institute. Highly dangerous as all attempts to retrieve him proved fatal for his pursuers. Leading to cancellation of this highly advanced early model. Also, being decades ahead of his time, necessary materials needed to create more like him proved too difficult to source.
So basically Nick's other brother? That would explain the similar style of clothing. But then, we know that both, aliens and elder gods are basically really in Fallout. So maybe the stranger is one of those. Maybe one of those ancient eldritch creatures that meddles with humanity.
It sounds like to me that the divergence is actually a bunch of smaller events that could have caused an overall great butterfly effect To cause the fall out universe to become different from ours
I think the timeline MOSTLY split in the late 40s or early 50s when the precursor to the microship was invented replacing vaccum tubes, as mentioned there were other factors but i think that was the main one where the tech was simply never invented, or atleast wasnt invented at that time with it fitting much later in the timeline likely after society conquered nuclear technology.
I feel like all fiction that is/was set in the real world inevitably has some events that differ from our real world, I don’t think that necessarily distinguishes those stories as ‘alternate timelines.’ For the same reason I feel like sunset sarsaparilla is kind of a null point, like I don’t think many people would call waterworld an ‘alternate timeline’ from our own, ‘but smeat was invented and canned prior to the flood, so clearly waterworld exists on a totally separate timeline,’ I think both of them just count as sort of baseline fiction.
The exact moment of the divergence in fallout is actually during the creation of the transistor. This has always been so and it's known as a point in history that if you could go back in time would have devastating effects on the timeline. This is actually one of 3 technologies that if removed/changed would set humans back immeasurably
The Stranger is a reference to Angels Among Us. Momma couldn't see him, but he was standing there. I knew in my heart, he was the answer to my prayers!
The divergence is William Shockley dies in a car wreck in 1946 so he never employs Bardeen and Brittain to invent the transistor so technology never gets smaller.
my personal head cannon is that the divergence was July 8 1947, in our time line it was not aliens (or if it was then the gov't did a muuuch better job at keeping a lid on things assuming you believe that sort of thing) just an advanced weather balloon, But in the fallout time line it WAS a Zetan ship and had a distress beacon the Zetans being advance beings who could violate causality, came in their mother ships and used that power to begin abducting people from several points in history and the resulting butter fly effects culminating in two very radical changes in the years immediately after ww2 the first is what you just mentioned and the other possibly even more significant change was that the world didn't collectively crap its pants a over the thought of nuclear war and thus did not halt development of nuclear power
One of the Gunner places(Hub City maybe?) has a note in it that refers to a high-ranking person by name, but there is no Gunner with that name in the Commonwealth.
Sunset Sasparilla doesn't break the divergence point. You can have a game set in a real world setting and still include fictional/fictitious companies, brands or items. I don't think some brands being around from before the divergence breaks it
Sunset sarsaparilla company could easily be A-treat bottling company that has many flavoured beverages including sarsaparilla which was started in *drum roll* 1918
The biggest Mystery is: When the Gunners and the Tallon Company are hired guns, why do they shoot anyone on sight without warning? Thats not a way to treat potential customers.
They did explain the point in time line divergent, it diverges at the point discovery of micro processors hence the technology differences. I believe this is talked about in FO3 with the professor from the institute in rivet city.
I think it's important to note Elder Owyn's influence can still be felt in Fallout 4. The Brotherhood is slowly moving away from it's older dogmatic beliefs such as recruiting and the chains that bind. Their also willing to give wastelanders a hand against any threats should the happen upon them.
Who hired talon company to kill the vault dweller is easy, one of the triggering events is stopping the bombing of megaton. As Mr Burke can be killed in one of the ways of triggering it, it's clearly Tenpenny hiring them.
Dunwich is a reference to Bethesda's Call of Cthulhu: Dark corners of the Earth. While gameplay is a bit ropey the use of the source material is second to none. There were several moments where I stopped and went "this feels familiar" only to realise why and nope out of there. It wasn't until Bethesda took over that the Lovecraft references became common and overt.
I think that in reference to the timeline divergence, it’s ok to assume that all major events are the same, and the difference in fictional companies are there because they felt it would be too expensive to license real ones and perhaps not so flattering in a lot cases. They may also want to impose a ton of restrictions or some such nonsense.
I think there could be many small discrepancies between our world and the world of Fallout but the major divergence happened shortly after World War 2, this is where we see more distinct changes but there was probably a lot more subtle differences for potentially a long time before that.
I remember reading somewhere that the divergence point between our world and the world of fallout was based around the use of transistors over vacuum tubes. Our world went with transistors which allowed for the miniaturisation of technology, while fallout's didn't, which made technology much larger and more expansive, but also far less energy efficient, which led to the resource wars very early in that version of the world. EDIT: "We" developed the transistor in 1947, so presumably that fits with the "sometime after ww2" and made even more amusing because when "we" invented the transistor it was seen as a strange invention, whose application wasn't even properly understood and probably allowed us to 'skip' several decades of technology. It would have been like developing an SSD two years after the invention of the mechanical hard drive.
In my tabletop Fallout RPG campaign, the invention of the transistor is the point of divergence. In our world the first transistor was successfully demonstrated on December 23, 1947, at Bell Laboratories in Murray Hill, New Jersey. In my campaign world, the Zetans destroyed that lab in June of 1947 killing the researchers and destroying their research. That Zetan ship is hit by some anti aircraft shelling and crashes in New Mexico out side the small town of Roswell. That’s how close we all came to living in the world of Fallout.
I always thought the mysterious stranger in the first two games was Mad Max. As far as the first born of the woods. I have a strong feeling this is referring to Harold. A ghoul with a tree growing from his head and he appears in Fallout 1, 2, and 3. Being the wasteland has a stigma towards ghouls. I have a hunch the interloper is Harold.
Actually, Harold is not a Ghoul. He was exposed to a small quantity of aerosolized FEV at Mariposa and then sort of became his own unique thing, neither Ghoul nor Super Mutant. Harold was also 5 years old in 2072 when he went into his Vault. By 2102, when Fallout 76 takes place, he was only 35, across the country, just embarking on the journey to find Mariposa with Richard Grey, and wasn't even changed yet. He doesn't acquire Bob until the events after Fallout 1 but before 2, decades after the events of Fallout 76, and on the opposite coast. Not trying to be a jerk, I've just been playing since launch day 1997; I have been absorbing and assimilating all the lore in real time, so it's easier for me to piece this stuff together.
@@hotblackdesiato5771 No you’re right lol. Damn it though. I should have paid more attention to the lore lmao. It’s awesome to see someone who is very into the storyline though. That’s amazing. Especially being I’m amazed Fallout has made it this far. I had lost hope after Fallout tactics. Lmao Thankfully they made Fallout 3. There are so many more fans now.
@@robe.2424 Tactics is indeed a mess. It's still confusingly semi-canonical, somehow? I definitely have a love-hate relationship with Bethesda. On one hand, they saved my favorite video game franchise from fading into obscurity, introduced it to a whole new generation of fans, and helped make my favorite niche of alternate-history-retrofuturism damn near mainstream. This is definitely a good thing. On the other hand, they ignore/flaut established canon at the drop of a hat, and currently neglect talking about the lore or even events of the classic games, and refuse to even acknowledge them post 3/NV, so much that a lot of the newer fans have no idea about very basic fundamentals of the universe and its story. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain that The Enclave is *not* just the continuation of the US government, but was a Shadow Government formed with various political, military, and corporate leaders *during the resource wars* before the bombs fell. It's all explained in a holotape and on a terminal in Fallout 2. At this point, I'm not even sure the team at Bethesda even knows/understands/cares about that.
The Fallout timeline does not diverge, it is a parallel timeline with many similarities. Something that is more plausible than a timeline that looks nothing like ours.
The main divergence happened in the 1950's-60's where transistors were never invented/not yet invented leading to the continuation of use of vacuum tubes. It's partly the reason why everything still has this retro 50's-60's aesthetic even though it's 100+ years in the future and most things are nuclear powered.
i have such a love/hate relationship with mysterious things in games cuz i wanna know about them and their origin really bad but once the mystery of something mysterious is taken away it loses all value and interest
I’ve always taken the divergence as being several minor divergences that weren’t enough to alter the timeline and some point after WW2 the divergences hrs in scale resulting in Fallouts timeline
Fun fact: if you have Nick Valentine as a follower and the mysterious stranger perk activates, he has a unique line of dialogue
I have been using him recently for a veteran and detective playthrough and it's so cool seeing him react to the stranger
He has quite a few lines for the mysterious stranger actually
Yeah, he even has a file about him
no shit
@@kalebbirch4107 you should try a Nora Detective play through but add a post fx black and white filter
I always looked at the Mysterious Stranger as a main protagonist in their own story and they happen to cross paths with you on yours and their adventures. Think about how many times you are just wandering the wastes at a high level and see a civilian being attacked by raiders or whatever. You vats them from a distance or walk up quickly dispatch of them easily and move on about your day without a word? The mysterious stranger is just a really high level protagonist in another story that wanders through the area lends a hand and gets a bit of xp and moves on.
That’s a cool take :)
Good thinking🤔
I actually really like that perspective.
TBF, most Fallout players aim for the civi as well but to each their own
@@electroeel148 your not that guy.
I think the Mysterious stranger and the unknown around him is cool. but I feel that once the games tell us everything about him, he won't be as mysterious anymore thus losing all the interest around him
Mysterious Stranger ➡️ Known Fellow
I agree. It was the same when producers gave ‘The Borg’ from Star Trek TNG, a background and a bit history behind their M.O.
I think it would be cool if there was like a dlc for a fallout game where you become a mysterious stranger and protect people in danger like the silver shroud questline
The mysterious stranger and the interloper are tied, fo3 or nv had him (the stranger) as a Lovecraftian entity in the guide
I imagine that there are some entities who are beyond the understanding of mere humans. These include the occult Cthulu monsters worshipped, but also Dogmeat and the Mysterious Stranger. They are spirits of the Wasteland!
I think the divergence point wasn’t a single point, but a series of small changes throughout time. With each point causing more change
The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
@@foofoo3344 There's actually a ton of events from before WW2 that happened in Fallout but not IRL.
So there is one first point. That is the divergence. The next points are just consequences of the first one.
@@foofoo3344 But on the other hand, it's not that much of a deal when a random Samurai gets kidnapped, like almost no consequences to the future. Technically it's a divergence yes, but I think the biggest point is that transistors were never invented and maybe alien technology speeding up research for laser and plasma weaponry, along with energy production.
wait, why did we not actually think of this?
Okay so, the thing is, you can have fictional events before your divergence. The divergence is just really when things take a radical turn. Otherwise the divergence would be in the feudal era of japan, with a samurai getting abducted by aliens, if not even earlier.
Thank you
we can't prove that a samurai wasn't taken by aliens but i do agree the divergence would be something big like vacuum tubes
Right, otherwise every work of fiction would be an alternate history work.
@@FoxSenpie In the Mothership Zeta DLC there's a samurai from the warring states period
id say that sunset sasparilla was probably supposed to be an irl brand, eg rockstar energy (cause they in vegas) but cause licensing they changed it, therefore its just different
id say that chernobyl never happened, and we didnt fear nuclear weapons, we embraced them
It's actually really funny to me that the mysterious stranger was never written off as just a part of the game, instead Bethesda canonized him and had Nick Valentine look into the mystery
He was canonised first in New Vegas, you meet the Mysterious Stranger's son. Obsidian were even going to have him kill you if you targeted his son in VATS at one point.
@@icefarrow7959 if anyone was going to be immune to death it would be his son
Is it a cryptid?
My head canon is that The Brotherhood gave the order to kill Sarah. They saw Sarah as "soft" like her father. Arthur Maxson was young and could be easly manupulated into deciding anything they wanted. I also think The Brotherhood blamed The Lone Wanderer for her death. The Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 doesnt say anything about him/her even though his/her actions have huge ramifications for The Brotherhood of Steel. After the Lone Wanderer got blame for Sarah's death, he/she disappeared from The Capital Wasteland.
lw and sarah left together ~ my theory
@@NewPaulActs17 nah the lone wanderer left before her death.
I prefer the Lw took her to his ship from the zeta dlc. And used a clone to fake her death. Now she wanders space along with the wanderers crew
Nah. The Lone Wanderer doesn't get mentioned because Bethesda has a policy against trying to set down definite details about what the players did in the previous game, in an effort to not step on our toes and invalidate our playthroughs.
@@filthycasual8187 bruh He is directly mentioned in Fallout 4
I think Sunset Sarsaparilla is part of our timeline. Lots of companies claim an early founding date, but when you investigate, that early date was prior to being bought out by another company. Who's to say the SS company wasn't something else prior to WW2 - a company that went out of business or was never bought by SS.
The hexcrete pillars seem like a reference to the 50s sci first classic "the Monolith Monsters". The movie centers around an alien element falling to earth, that rapidly forms immense ultra hard crystals when exposed to oxygen. The crystals become so big they topple over in a tidal wave of gigantic stones. Their encroachment threatens a small NM community and a scientisthas to stop it.
creepiest corner in any fallout map to me. those stupid pillars in big mt
The fact that the hexagonic pillars from old world blues can grow out of the ground really does mess with me seeing how put them in anyone else's hands and you have a weapon and everyone will be basically screwed
Raggedy:
That’s exactly what they were meant to be in my opinion, since this entire DLC was basically an homage to 50s sci-fi it stands to reason that they would use that plot point from a cult 50s sci-fi film.
Half the reason this is my favorite DLC from New Vegas is the countless references to some of my favorite 50s sci-fi films including Forbidden Planet, The day the earth stood still, War of the worlds, Black scorpion etc. etc. etc.
@@KevinR1138 Makes me think of that one story where water from outer space is first thought of as the solution to all the problems, but then turns out to be infectious and deadly.
@@HappyBeezerStudios whats this movie called?
To me, the most mysterious thing about fallout was in far harbor, having visions of (and following) the 'mother' spirit during the children of the atom quest.
There's actually a cabin you can find with notes and stealth boys. It's theorized this is the person you saw as "The Mother" after getting messed up by the Springs.
@@MillieBlackRose Yes I remember vaguely; it was a woman the children of the atom want you to seek out and assassin, (or another woman thats tied to that woman?)
@@shak4632 no it's nothing to do with her. It's a random cabin in the woods. I think Oxhorn or Epicnate did a vid about it.... I'm thinking Oxhorn.
That’s a different woman. The Mother of the Fog is considered a saint of some kind by the CoA, while the woman Richter sends you to kill is a heretic.
@@MillieBlackRose Nevermind im thinking of a reference to The Mother in the pump control room, there's a 2nd Icon of her in there as well as the one you get initially.
People also forget that in the one game you could choose to become a force for good or evil. For good you would wear a trench coat and every evil person you killed would gain you karma. Adding to the theory mysterious stranger is a title given to multiple people.
In which game?
@@cryinpooper it's in New Vegas it's a perk, level 30 ish if I'm not mistaken.
Oh, there's something like that in FO3, you collect fingers of evil people as "proof" of your good deeds and they give caps for that
They also give you their "uniform"
@@Arav-0913 That's what it is. I looked it up it's called "Lawbringer"
Fallout 3, are you talking about the Lawbringer/Contract Killer Perk? While the outfits of the Regulators are Dusters and Cowboy hats, different from what the stranger wears. Plus the Regulators have tight membership and they would know who the Stranger was.
The Hexcrete being some sort of slowly mass spreading parasite is actually really interesting
This was a common knowledge when I was playing and still probably can be found on wiki, one of the big divergences was, they didn't invent micro-transistors. That's why everything is big and bulky and that's why technology differs from us. However, around the time before great war, they finally invent micro - transistors so fallout universe suppose to looks like our universe if they keep continue using it.
++
Yet you can build micro-vacuum tubes, and they are still used today.
@@uni4rm micro vacuum tubes are still infinitely more bulky than the integrated circuit, and just as fragile. Part of the reason micro electronics caught on in our timeline is precisely because they were more durable and their size couldn't be matched.
"They didn't invent transistors" was a myth arising from aesthetic confusion at seeing vacuum tubes at all in the original mixed-modern/retrofuturistic presentation of the original games,, deepened by Bethesda's aesthetic treatment of the franchise (wherein everything just stopped in WW2, stylistically; NCR troopers and Nate both dressed like they were in WW2, Korea at latest). Integrated circuits are represented in FO1 and FO2. There are desktop computers the size and external style of those that existed when the first Fallout games came out, which are then named as only dumb terminals (and yet still operate autonomously) with a much more retro style by Bethesda. You can look at Fallout's original energy weapons, and then how Bethesda later shoves a bunch of vacuum tubes into them that they didn't have before. It is very much something they played up for aesthetics.
"Around the time before the great war," as you put it -- 2077 -- was much later than the first canonical mention of transistors in 2023, per Jack Cabot. The thing is, the year when transistors were invented in canon is never specified. People have claimed it, but no one has ever cited a source. As far as them *never* being invented, there are more sources for that, but you have to read them carefully to see that it was a design idea, not necessarily an accepted canon. Furthermore, EMP is effective against robots, which would not be the case if they ran entirely on vacuum tubes.
I know everybody wants things wrapped up in some neat explanation, but this is just an inconsistent presentation of technology in the Fallout universe.
@@VitriolicVermillion transistors were available at the same time they were in our timeline. It's not the transistor which was the technologic bottleneck to microelectronics, it's the integrated circuit. It is canon that the integrated circuit was not widely adopted until the dying throes of society and even then it hadn't been common long enough to replace consumer tech.
For the very first mystery: Divergence probably happened when the aliens arrived to Earth and started messing around, which was way before ww2 considering the samurai in mothership zeta. That's the earliest point I can think of.
The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
@Bonniebell Roberts Mothership Zeta isn’t canon because Bethesda said it was. All the other dlc is canon because it’s in the game and Bethesda hasn’t stated otherwise. No idea how you came to your conclusion
@@kenterbee3191 it’s canon bro
@Bonniebell Roberts unless Bethesda say othereise DLC is cannon, Mothership Zeta is just as cannon as Far Harbour or Dead Money
@Bonniebell Roberts I'll try to email Bethesda and try to ask confirmation. I'll get back to you unless I forget.
The mercenaries of fallout are not necessarily being paid by anyone. They're largely organised raiders who are up for hire, which is actually much like real mercenaries in history who tended to turn to banditry when not working for anyone. Aristotle wrote that it is sometimes best to hire mercenaries even if you don't need them just to stop them from ravishing your lands.
My own personal head cannon about the Great Divergence is that the timelines have always been separated, with only minor divergences happening throughout it but causing any real difference, that is until the greatest of all divergences happen and completely split it away.
Yeah that mine aswell. They are completly seperated and up until 1945 things were pretty similiar , almost identical, but then things diverged radical because technological advancement in both lines was massivly accelerated after WW2 leading to more differences.
i say there were several divergences- military, political, cultural. technology in late 40s (no transistor chips), music in late 60s. ussr somehow surviving post 1990s.; then cold war shifting to prc in 21st century.
and now- no robert edwin house born in 2020
Yeah I agree. The main difference is in the 1940s, but before that like you say. I think the concept of a divergence doesn't even fit with Fallout. This isn't alternate reality in a multiverse or comparative sense, it's just world building and it owes nothing to the real world.
@@malik740 Kind of like stretching a rubber band. More and more stress is added until if finally snaps post-WW2.
One example is the Washington Monument is not constructed in the Fallout timeline the same way as it is in ours.
I had the Mysterious Stranger appear during the "Operation: Anchorage" and go unconscious due to taking fall damage.
i really think that “is atom real” is a kind of tame and easy to answer question when you’re talking about the game where there’s occult lovecraft entities and alien invaders and interlopers invading our reality and weird black obelisks showing up.
The Hexcete destroying small towns is probably a reference to the 1957 scifi movie "Monolith Monsters".
Here's one mystery you could make a part 2 eventually. In New Vegas its pretty common knowledge how much Courier 6 traveled. One mystery is where exactly did Courier 6 come from? All you get really is rumors and places he/she has been but no real source of origin. The Boneyard maybe? The Hub? It's hard to say. Even Ulysses from Lonesome Road will tell you, "You've walked farther than I have." According to Ulysses, the Courier has been to Circle Junction, New Reno, Vault City, Fort Abandon, and on brahmin drives at the Big Circle.
Just how far did Courier 6 walk the wastes? Is it possible he/she might have traveled to the Capital Wasteland? Maybe the Commonwealth?
That's a role-playing element at that point.
I pretty sure there's a picture of the lone wanderers parents or someone from the capital wasteland in vault 21, so cross country travel isn't impossible
@@whipasnaper it was just an absent minded asset reuse
@@whipasnaper im sure thats a asset from 3 used in nv
@@insomniagobrrr5542 I'm forced to agree. I don't think Courier 6 is the LW from Fallout 3. I know there's a mod called TTW, Tale of Two Wastelands, but mostly that's just mod based not actual canon. Besides if Courier 6 is the LW, why wasn't he/she aware of Wasteland Survival Guide in game somehow? Nah I think Courier 6 might have originally been been born somewhere in the NCR. Aradesh maybe or even New Reno.
Given the fallout bible isn't canon I personally don't belive that there is a divergance, its just an alternate/parralell timeline that has some common events that cross over with ours.
The Fallout Bible may not be canon any more but look at what Bethesda has done to the lore. I'd rather follow the defunct bible that whatever swill Bethesda is trying to push off as lore.
I take any canon/almost-canon explanation of a divergence to be just shorthand explanation for history is not SIGNIFICANTLY different before WW2.
I don't see reason to see it as part of a divergence in the time travel or multiverse or alternative reality sense. The differences are just for world building and it's a similar, parallel world.
Fallout Bible is literal canon.
@@BockwinkleB no, it's not. It use to be sure but it is no longer.
@@OpheliaDarling2814 Not like the Fallout Bible was always coherent or consistent.
Hey man, really loving the longer form content. I was looking for some alternatives to the more popular Fallout-focused channels. I'm not a super huge shorts fan, so I'm thankful you make really awesome long form content as well. Keep it up!
FO4 has an additional reference to the mysterious stranger, if I remember correctly. I think one of the police stations has a dead raider in it, next to a terminal. The terminal has a log detailing his obsession with (and eventual death by) the mysterious stranger.
Man I remember getting into fallout a few years ago and there was hardly any fallout RUclipsrs this is awesome to see how much traction the games have picked up since
Nick is literally the only companion that acknowledges the mysterious stranger in the fallout canon or at least the only one i know of.
I always imagined that the Mysterious Stranger was some ambiguous immortal ancestor to the bloodline which spawned all the protagonists. Dog Meat is also HIS dog, not ours.
That's actually so much sense that dogmeat is his, seeing as dogmeat always finds us and helps us, even though a normal dog would be dead
@@ILIKEOTTERS Yeah, thank you, when I played these games in my youth, I really put effort into that theory, and others I suppose. The only pertinent expansion to that theory I'd like to add is that I also assumed Dog Meat was possibly the stranger's method of tracking his bloodline.
Speaking of Sarah Lions. There is a fan made mod Called Exiles and Reminisce, which allows you to meet up with a group of Brotherhood members who are now in exile who are still loyal to Elder Lions’ ideas and that Sarah Lions is alive hiding from the Brotherhood. In the Mod you can have Sarah Lions take back control of the Brotherhood of Steel replacing Author Maxim. Reminisce is a fun fan explanation to who is paying the Gunners it is the Reminisce of the Enclave from Fallout 3.
I always believed the mysterious stranger is a blessing given to an individual by some kind of luck deity as the perk is always tied to luck in the base games.
The Mysterious Stranger could be an immortal entity related to a luck god. We know that the supernatural stuffs like H.P. Lovecraft's stuff exists in the Fallout universe. So, it makes sense that there is some sort of luck related deity.
@@foofoo3344 thats so fuxking stupid
In the first or the second game they tell you his name is Farmer and he is an eldritch entity
@@randallmiller1219 I sadly never got fallout 1 or 2 to ever work for me so I didn't know that.
@@joshuanoon5658 bro it took me a week to get fallout 2 working (almost not worth it)
The divergence happened when Zetans first came into the Solar system and kidnapped various people throughout the history. Or when the Eldritch beings were created long before the big bang.
Or when the ghoul gene was introduced into human, maybe whales too.
@@Zarlos01 Don't forget Gorillas
@@timothyharris1125 I hope they play Feel Good Inc.
The interloper is Indrid Cold.. another legend attached to the moth man legend. Since the lore seems to be the same for the most part, as real life lore.. getting into the lore of the area will help. There’s a series called “Hellier”, that gets into all of that pretty deeply.
The divergence point was the development of the microprocessor. You can tell because instead of technology becoming slimmer and more compact, they got bulkier and more reliant on nuclear energy.
The creators say the divergence was after 1945. But the Cabot story starts thousands of years ago. The most popular theory is that the alien contact, which left the helm, was the divergence. And the aliens are the difference. Their small touches over the years caused the divergence, which wasn't evident until after WW2, but started long before.
i like the idea that the Mysterious Stranger is the Vault Dweller (F1) from the future. the Stranger/Dweller has the ability to travel back through time but only does so to save your player character from combat that would have killed you otherwise. this is why he’s a man because the canon Vault Dweller is a man. it’s also why the Stranger appears as a man or woman depending on what gender you pick in the first Fallout. the Stranger is you.
There's even an event on fallout 1 that sends the dweller back in time and end up breaking the water chip...
And if my memory is correct, you must pick up a rock that is part of a statue for that to happen, sooo the dweller might learn how to properly use it after the ending.
I always take Nick for most of far harbor because his special story line and interaction with many of the characters there make and already wonderful dlc even more fun, deep and fascinating.
Does Miss Fortune have any expanded lore? Like the Mysterious Stranger. Or was she just a throw away character for New Vegas?
I was sad when Miss Fortune didn't make it in to Fallout 4.
I think she was a throw away but there is a possible link to the mistresses of mystery in appalachia
@@maxxbradley5003 ohhhhh, now this needs a video 😀
I like to think that Miss Fortune is a nod towards the Mistress of Mystery, but I can't remember if she was on the Unstoppables comic cover in New Vegas.
They all where suposed to just be a wild wasteland funny throe away character. Until bethesda made stupid lore around the mysterious stranger.
@@xeibei4804 ???
If I'm not mistaken, the main divergence point is the invention of the integrated circuit. Technology in Fallout is made with vacuum tubes, plain transistors and other fairly retro components. It wasn't until much later that the integrated circuit was implemented into the tech tree of Fallout. The Platinum Chip is an example of tech with ICs, and I think the synth tech from the Commonwealth is another. The fact that micro electronics never caught on should be the main difference in the divergence of the two timelines. The reason everything looks so retro is because everything electronic is bulky.
I like to think the mysterious stranger is a group of people. I hope that’s what it is, like maybe in future games there’s a hidden quest line that tells you a very small bit of information about the stranger in the form of a lost holotape or terminal entry that details the groups recruitment process, and then mentions people that have been vetted but didn’t pass, the first few entries being random names, then maybe the 4th or 5th name is “The Lone Wanderer”. And that’s it. Nothing else, but it would confirm that it’s a group and they looked into recruiting a character we played as that has influence and mentions in the new games. The lone wanderer was extremely influential and did a lot of good with project purity. Maybe he didn’t get recruited because he destroyed the enclave or something.
Theory: Maybe the divergence happened way into the past, like maybe even the birth of the Fallout universe, since we know that Eldrich Gods from the mind of H.P. Lovecraft exist or has been heavily hinted to exist in the Fallout universe. Since a lot of the works and books don't exist in the games but rather some key stories are actual events. Like the Cabot house in Fallout 4 where the father embarked on a journey in Egypt exactly as the one of Lovecraft's stories. There are also some mysterious creatures added to Fallout 76 as of recently as well. I personally missed the Limited time Event that involved Mothman cult and the mysterious creature that the "Enlightened" members of the cult reference to, but they do acknowledge that the presence is something stronger and otherworldly than the Mothman.
Another one is the influence of the Dunwich mystery which is also considered to be almost supernatural by nature. Rituals performed by people to what seems to be a god from what we've seen to grant Immortality or wealth. A lot of history of Fallout is already diverged Pre - WW II.
The robco factory in FO3 with the creepy breathing. That’s what I want to know about
I’ve tried to search this but couldn’t find anything about it, you got any video links to this location?
@@shoazdon7000 nope, I’m just as curious and clueless
1:18 The Divergence doesn’t have to be an actual “event” like you expect, but can be also a context, in the Fallout context… the divergence is that the society (at least the US society, for what we know) focused it’s development on nuclear energy instead of microtransistors and IT technology.
The after is explained in the opening of the games
18:16 I don’t think they need actually to be constantly payed to be in action. Maybe it could be they just just are settling there (where we find them in game) waiting for somebody to give them a quest. In fact it’s always us most of the times that interfere with their settlements, we never encounter them randomly
One possible theory I have about the Zetans' fascination with the Giddyup Buttercup comes down to their overall ideology and society. It's implied by the layout of the mothership that the Zetans are not the type of race to have any interest in leisure and are almost entirely focused on being as productive as possible. It's possible that due to this, they're fascination of the toy comes from them simply being starved of any sort of fun that even the smallest bit of dopamine (assume their brains can even produce it) is overwhelming to them.
Personally, I'm more interesting in knowing why so many Zetan pilots don't know how to fly in an atmosphere for the life of them. I don't even think you can make the argument that the crafts are not meant for atmospheric flight since the pilots would almost certainly know about that and would make sure to stay out of the atmosphere. Unless the Zetans are Kerbals in trenchcoats, then I dunno what's going on with their pilots.
Maybe its not a flight pilot decline, may e they set the crashes as a stage and once people comes to investigate the mothership snatches them up , or maybe it traitor zetans escaping the mothership but getting shot down as they start flying🤔
Makes you wonder if the 'divergence' wasn't somehow connected to the existence of lovecraftian deities in the fallout universe...
(I know that dunwhich wasn't added until f.o.3 so it'd be a big retcon, but still).
The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
@@foofoo3344 not disputing the when.
But theorising the 'why'.
@@foofoo3344 An abduction isn't really a divergance. For all we know that samurai died in "our" timeline and never affected history.
For the timeline to diverge from ours, history has to change on a greated scale than one person. So if Kago was returned to earth in his timeline, that would count. The real answer should still be before WW2 though, since the Zetans had been in contact for a while.
The reason the writer said "I'm going to head this off now, stop asking questions." Was because they don't know and anything they choose will have huge holes in it.
@@kyleellis1825 You need to look at the butterfly effect. That one abduction could have major effect somewhere down the timeline. For example, what if an inconspicuous descendant of an unknown peasant (who's family have lived in a remote village for a long time without affecting history) who was supposed to be saved by the Samurai is somehow related to the early invention of the integrated circuit. Just because there is no immediate effect, it doesn't mean there won't be any effect. Sometimes the major changes could happen only after several centuries.
@@foofoo3344 I already said the samurai could have died (in our timeline)the same day he was abducted (in the fallout one).
That negates any butterfly effects and that is my point. We don't know what the samurais fate would have been without intervention. If he had a historical name, then 100% you're right.
But as it stands, we don't have enough information to state that is the point of divergence.
Great video dude! Made me pretty nostalgic being reminded about some of the mysteries I’ve forgot about over time.
I’d love a part 2 lol.
It was stated when the timelines splinted in Fall Out 3"s manual. And it was the transiter believe it or not. That's why computers in the Fall Out universe had vacuum tubes in them. And why it kept it's 1950's theme. I remember reading that, and thinking "Now that is some Butterfly Effect sh$t",
I love how you still talk about questions and lore about the games, unlike other Fallout RUclipsrs, most people don’t cover the games lore, but just certain buildings/peoples lore, so thank you
What about the x01 Power armour in nuka world , is x01 pre war or post war
A brand deal with Nuka-Cola and the government lead to an early version of X-01 power armour being produced with Nuka-Cola Quantum branded shortly before the bombs, however X-01 power armour wouldn't be produced more until post-war
some of them are Lovecraft references. and the rest are great topics
Well the buttercup thing easily could be linked to the nukaworld dlc. There is a quest you have deliver a buttercup to the robot who is sadden to see its been destroyed. In the same quest you realize the protectrons also had real duels with kids in a wild west format
I say retcon Sarah's death. It's happened several times in several other games, so do it here. Lol. She could pop in with the line " the tales of my death have been greatly exaggerated "
She ends up leading the Midwest brotherhood from the shadows, trying to create a Brotherhood nation maybe?
My head canon for the Mysterious Stranger is that he is a time traveller, and possibly only one person.
(potential spoilers:)
Remember in F2, the 'Guardian of Forever'? The random encounter that sends the player back with the sole purpose to break the actual waterchip in Vault 13 (sole purpose because that encounter ends only after breaking the chip iirc). This means it had to happen that way so the whole story of F1 could even start, and to me means that the 'Guardian of Forever' (though being a reference to a Star Trek TOS episode where it is just a time-portal) is more than just a portal but something with a purpose or sentience to guide and make things happen in a certain way. It sends that one (or possibly multiple but i don't think so) Mysterious Stranger to key moments to help the player characters in fights that could alter the expected/desirable timeline.
Hell, it could even be NICK who is sent (maybe he had a human-like-looking artificial or even real skin at some point and all the damage visible on him now is just from all the countless battles he helped win).
I like the idea of atom being real because they describe division as new universes being made. So that means the great war created thousands of these universes (new games).
I read (when Fallout 3 came out) that the divergence point was the invention of the transistor, and that’s why all the technology is tube and valve based while we use transistors.
Personally I think Alistair Tenpenny as well as his other residents of his tower are the ones paying Talon Company. We know that he has contempt for Megaton since it's an "eyesore" and his karma is set to "evil". I don't think it's a stretch that he may have issues with other settlements in the area. Or maybe he uses them to secure new areas for Tenpenny to control. It could be why we see them fighting super mutants in the downtown area. Similarly, I think the rich residents of diamond city are major contributors to the Gunners in the commonwealth. For a while I thought maybe it was the institute paying them but that idea falls flat when you consider the institute can just dispatch coursers to deal with problems on the surface. I think they're also being funded by parties outside the commonwealth who may wanna drain it of it's resources or displace people to take their land. With respect to Dunwich, if Eldritch deities seemingly exist in the FO universe, I don't see why Atom can't also exist. Or at least, why can't "Atom" be another one of those Lovecraftian entities. But that's all just my opinion
Talon Company NPCs are hostile to the inhabitants of Tenpenny Tower.
The divergent point was when the transistor didn’t become popular and used vacuum tubes instead. After ww2 instead of going for smaller PC’s they opted to invest in massive super computers instead.
Congrats on 100k man! Awesome video as well! Would love a part 2!
I think the Giddy-Up Buttercup toys on the Zetan ship is a joke. Basically it would seem they have, rather understandably, completely misinterpreted Pre-War human culture and are under the impression that the toys are extremely valuable to Pre-War humans and are studying them to try and figure out why.
The mystery of the other countries in fallout.
Im pretty sure canonically the divergent point was the fact that in fallout they never developed a microchip. This unlocked a lot of todays modern advancements. Since they never did that they ended up using nuclear powered items as a means to get similar products. This created a need for radioactive material and a ton of mining which used a lot of resources to collect. This would have been in 1959
I hope in the next fallout be it 5 or another spinoff that the gunners are the main antagonists for a lot of the game. Kinda like in tactics where its raiders then raiders who like robots then super mutants and then the robots. I also hope in the next fallout game or future games theres a side quest centered around an order of mysterious strangers that nod to past games.
I would like for Fallout to either go to the Midwest or Canada. Chicago cause it would be an interesting place post war and is mentioned a lot in the series. I would believe Fallout's location would be located between the area of St Louis and Chicago with the Crashed Zetan Ship the Lone wanderer blew up in the DLC as reason to explore that area around the freeway and be a premise for the game.
@@timothyharris1125 It would also be on the great lakes, which allows for a DLC set on the other side over in Canada.
The gunners are pretty much the eyes and ears of the enclave.
Just hidden under a third company and pays them to scope out key locations and jobs.
They're still mercenaries and will take the higher paying jobs if they come up.
The enclave either never found a reason to go into the commonwealth or it was too risky. They did lose massively after the capital wasteland.
So just hiring the gunners for the job was a better option on the table.
The enclave probably would've got involved if the brotherhood never came with everything they used against them.
Talon company was the same story. Their is a talon company base right north of project purity and someone gave that Intel to the enclave.
It's not much of a surprise that the enclave came at the right time when they did.
Not to mention that the gunners more then talon company are more like a Para military. Someone is training them, but staying hidden from who it really is. Also some is supplying them with military gear and hardware. Who would have a giant abundance of military gear?
I swear the ECBOS is the most misunderstood and lied about faction in all of Fallout. Arthur did not fully restore the chapter to the standards of the WC, in fact the chapter is still has protecting Wastelanders as their top priority. (hence their restoration of roads, conflicts with Gunners and Raiders, etc.) What Arthur did to bring the Outcasts back into the fold was point out that dangerous tech can still be contained or destroyed, that they can do both. (as that action does protect Wastelanders) Heck most of their new recruits are Wastelanders!
Really enjoying this one
Thanks Neal!!! Much appreciated!
He answered my prayers for Halloween content
I always understood that the main 'divergence' was that in the fallout universe they never invented the transitor, which is about 1955, and that they embraced nuclear powered technology, and then many events followed to further diverge our realities
For the divergence question, it’s even farther back than the 1918 Sunset Sarsaparilla thing. In Mothership Zeta one of the people the Zetans captured was Toshiro Kago. From what I looked up he was born before 1562. So making it be almost 700 years since Toshiro was picked up.
I do like the divergence being a mystery in the fallout universe. It makes things like the mysterious stranger, the cosmic horror in 3&4 involving the dunwhich borers, the disappearance of dr zimmer, it really brings an element of mystery in an rpg like fallout.
The spy issue was probably something that slipped through testing, and since patching wasn't a thing back then, it just couldn't be fixed.
The hex crate pillars being metal trees makes the metal sculpture in front of the x-8 research station make sense. Total diff way of looking at them.
Fun Fact: The Divergence being after World War 2 is completely FALSE because in Fallout 3 DLC Mothership Zeta, there is a Samurai named Toshiro Kago from around A.D. 1568-1603 in Feudal Japan, who was abducted by the Aliens. And since Bethesda confirmed that Mothership Zeta is canon, that means the Timeline Divergence can be as early as Feudal Japan Era.
What if I told you that happened in our timeline too??
You bring up something interesting, what if the mysterious strangers were all apart of an organization, like the fallout cia or sometbing. Their coats and revolver are very authority figure like.
_The Mysterious stranger ~_
Possibly a highly advanced, early prototype Synth; with built in Stealth Boy technology incorporated into his body. Project cancelled when the Synth became sentient and escaped the Institute. Highly dangerous as all attempts to retrieve him proved fatal for his pursuers. Leading to cancellation of this highly advanced early model. Also, being decades ahead of his time, necessary materials needed to create more like him proved too difficult to source.
So basically Nick's other brother? That would explain the similar style of clothing.
But then, we know that both, aliens and elder gods are basically really in Fallout. So maybe the stranger is one of those. Maybe one of those ancient eldritch creatures that meddles with humanity.
This is the best theory I’ve read about this.
It sounds like to me that the divergence is actually a bunch of smaller events that could have caused an overall great butterfly effect To cause the fall out universe to become different from ours
I think the timeline MOSTLY split in the late 40s or early 50s when the precursor to the microship was invented replacing vaccum tubes, as mentioned there were other factors but i think that was the main one where the tech was simply never invented, or atleast wasnt invented at that time with it fitting much later in the timeline likely after society conquered nuclear technology.
I feel like all fiction that is/was set in the real world inevitably has some events that differ from our real world, I don’t think that necessarily distinguishes those stories as ‘alternate timelines.’ For the same reason I feel like sunset sarsaparilla is kind of a null point, like I don’t think many people would call waterworld an ‘alternate timeline’ from our own, ‘but smeat was invented and canned prior to the flood, so clearly waterworld exists on a totally separate timeline,’ I think both of them just count as sort of baseline fiction.
The exact moment of the divergence in fallout is actually during the creation of the transistor. This has always been so and it's known as a point in history that if you could go back in time would have devastating effects on the timeline. This is actually one of 3 technologies that if removed/changed would set humans back immeasurably
The Stranger is a reference to Angels Among Us. Momma couldn't see him, but he was standing there. I knew in my heart, he was the answer to my prayers!
The divergence is William Shockley dies in a car wreck in 1946 so he never employs Bardeen and Brittain to invent the transistor so technology never gets smaller.
my personal head cannon is that the divergence was July 8 1947, in our time line it was not aliens (or if it was then the gov't did a muuuch better job at keeping a lid on things assuming you believe that sort of thing) just an advanced weather balloon, But in the fallout time line it WAS a Zetan ship and had a distress beacon the Zetans being advance beings who could violate causality, came in their mother ships and used that power to begin abducting people from several points in history and the resulting butter fly effects culminating in two very radical changes in the years immediately after ww2 the first is what you just mentioned and the other possibly even more significant change was that the world didn't collectively crap its pants a over the thought of nuclear war and thus did not halt development of nuclear power
One of the Gunner places(Hub City maybe?) has a note in it that refers to a high-ranking person by name, but there is no Gunner with that name in the Commonwealth.
Who says the boss has to move out on mission themselves. How many generals and admirals are on the frontlines?
Sunset Sasparilla doesn't break the divergence point. You can have a game set in a real world setting and still include fictional/fictitious companies, brands or items. I don't think some brands being around from before the divergence breaks it
Sunset sarsaparilla company could easily be A-treat bottling company that has many flavoured beverages including sarsaparilla which was started in *drum roll* 1918
The biggest Mystery is: When the Gunners and the Tallon Company are hired guns, why do they shoot anyone on sight without warning?
Thats not a way to treat potential customers.
They did explain the point in time line divergent, it diverges at the point discovery of micro processors hence the technology differences. I believe this is talked about in FO3 with the professor from the institute in rivet city.
Its perhaps worth pondering that the fallout games in which the mysterious stranger appears collectively span close to 200 years
I think it's important to note Elder Owyn's influence can still be felt in Fallout 4. The Brotherhood is slowly moving away from it's older dogmatic beliefs such as recruiting and the chains that bind.
Their also willing to give wastelanders a hand against any threats should the happen upon them.
Who hired talon company to kill the vault dweller is easy, one of the triggering events is stopping the bombing of megaton. As Mr Burke can be killed in one of the ways of triggering it, it's clearly Tenpenny hiring them.
please do more long&interesting videos like these!! loving them way more than the shorts
Dunwich is a reference to Bethesda's Call of Cthulhu: Dark corners of the Earth.
While gameplay is a bit ropey the use of the source material is second to none. There were several moments where I stopped and went "this feels familiar" only to realise why and nope out of there.
It wasn't until Bethesda took over that the Lovecraft references became common and overt.
I think that in reference to the timeline divergence, it’s ok to assume that all major events are the same, and the difference in fictional companies are there because they felt it would be too expensive to license real ones and perhaps not so flattering in a lot cases. They may also want to impose a ton of restrictions or some such nonsense.
I think there could be many small discrepancies between our world and the world of Fallout but the major divergence happened shortly after World War 2, this is where we see more distinct changes but there was probably a lot more subtle differences for potentially a long time before that.
I remember reading somewhere that the divergence point between our world and the world of fallout was based around the use of transistors over vacuum tubes. Our world went with transistors which allowed for the miniaturisation of technology, while fallout's didn't, which made technology much larger and more expansive, but also far less energy efficient, which led to the resource wars very early in that version of the world.
EDIT: "We" developed the transistor in 1947, so presumably that fits with the "sometime after ww2" and made even more amusing because when "we" invented the transistor it was seen as a strange invention, whose application wasn't even properly understood and probably allowed us to 'skip' several decades of technology. It would have been like developing an SSD two years after the invention of the mechanical hard drive.
In my tabletop Fallout RPG campaign, the invention of the transistor is the point of divergence. In our world the first transistor was successfully demonstrated on December 23, 1947, at Bell Laboratories in Murray Hill, New Jersey. In my campaign world, the Zetans destroyed that lab in June of 1947 killing the researchers and destroying their research. That Zetan ship is hit by some anti aircraft shelling and crashes in New Mexico out side the small town of Roswell. That’s how close we all came to living in the world of Fallout.
I always thought the mysterious stranger in the first two games was Mad Max. As far as the first born of the woods. I have a strong feeling this is referring to Harold. A ghoul with a tree growing from his head and he appears in Fallout 1, 2, and 3. Being the wasteland has a stigma towards ghouls. I have a hunch the interloper is Harold.
Actually, Harold is not a Ghoul. He was exposed to a small quantity of aerosolized FEV at Mariposa and then sort of became his own unique thing, neither Ghoul nor Super Mutant.
Harold was also 5 years old in 2072 when he went into his Vault. By 2102, when Fallout 76 takes place, he was only 35, across the country, just embarking on the journey to find Mariposa with Richard Grey, and wasn't even changed yet.
He doesn't acquire Bob until the events after Fallout 1 but before 2, decades after the events of Fallout 76, and on the opposite coast.
Not trying to be a jerk, I've just been playing since launch day 1997; I have been absorbing and assimilating all the lore in real time, so it's easier for me to piece this stuff together.
@@hotblackdesiato5771 No you’re right lol. Damn it though. I should have paid more attention to the lore lmao. It’s awesome to see someone who is very into the storyline though. That’s amazing. Especially being I’m amazed Fallout has made it this far. I had lost hope after Fallout tactics. Lmao
Thankfully they made Fallout 3. There are so many more fans now.
@@robe.2424 Tactics is indeed a mess. It's still confusingly semi-canonical, somehow?
I definitely have a love-hate relationship with Bethesda.
On one hand, they saved my favorite video game franchise from fading into obscurity, introduced it to a whole new generation of fans, and helped make my favorite niche of alternate-history-retrofuturism damn near mainstream. This is definitely a good thing.
On the other hand, they ignore/flaut established canon at the drop of a hat, and currently neglect talking about the lore or even events of the classic games, and refuse to even acknowledge them post 3/NV, so much that a lot of the newer fans have no idea about very basic fundamentals of the universe and its story. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain that The Enclave is *not* just the continuation of the US government, but was a Shadow Government formed with various political, military, and corporate leaders *during the resource wars* before the bombs fell. It's all explained in a holotape and on a terminal in Fallout 2. At this point, I'm not even sure the team at Bethesda even knows/understands/cares about that.
This is like an episode of ancient aliens
Random 'facts'
open-ended questions
"we may never know"
imagine Sarah arriving to the commonwealth insted someone else
The Fallout timeline does not diverge, it is a parallel timeline with many similarities. Something that is more plausible than a timeline that looks nothing like ours.
The main divergence happened in the 1950's-60's where transistors were never invented/not yet invented leading to the continuation of use of vacuum tubes.
It's partly the reason why everything still has this retro 50's-60's aesthetic even though it's 100+ years in the future and most things are nuclear powered.
i have such a love/hate relationship with mysterious things in games cuz i wanna know about them and their origin really bad but once the mystery of something mysterious is taken away it loses all value and interest
The interloper is Harold from Fallout3. Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it
The lonesome drifter is part of the talent pool quest line where is is recruited for a comedy act for the lucky 38
Here’s a mystery: where are all the babies in the wasteland? Empty carriages, cribs and no bones or corpses.
Good point. Now I have to find out. 😺
I’ve always taken the divergence as being several minor divergences that weren’t enough to alter the timeline and some point after WW2 the divergences hrs in scale resulting in Fallouts timeline