Integrated Athletic Systems Troy yes I agree. Because the basic characteristics of the car are still the same. Once you highly modified them with boost they’re completely different cars than they were from the factory
The Ram 4 engine was awesome considering it was a 400, but as I mentioned elsewhere, the deciding factor is the 4 speed though I loved the bang-screech automatic. The Olds were proportionally faster with a 4 speed as well. Motor Trends 1970 442 W30 road test of an automatic ran 13.9. Subsequently, they put headers and slicks (for the day) on it, clocking a 12.9. One can extrapolate what the improvement would be over the automatic (I owned a 70 4 spd. and 69 auto) since it was rated higher and was lighter.
You will find the most Pontiac engines are under rated by about 20% , you also need to remember that GM at the time limited advertised HP to 1 hp per 10 lbs. Only the vette was exempted from this rule.
@@tomcherry7029 It's clear from the road tests which ones were overrated. Advertised HP affected insurance rates as well. Chev was inclined to go higher in order to garner more of the demographic they were targeting.
i love this channel, and this why i subscribe..great match up, the 442 got the hit in the second race and still lost..i love old pontiac's, and that GTO was gorgeous :)
I used to own a 1969 H/O I N50 x15" on the rear. You could feel the body twist when you punched it. I have had faster cars but nothing compares to the feeling of a 4000 pound car twisting between your hands and you ass. I still get Shivers thinking about that Torque. over 550ft pounds some say 650 I never measured mine. you have to experience it to understand it. my best friend had a judge too but I aways bet him his other GTO not a chance it had a blown 455 Pontiac. that was a monster
I had a 69 GTO with a Ram Air 4 stock engine, it was very street able but the top end was phenomenal. My Hemi friends had lots of power but could not keep them tuned for street use. All the rest of the comparable stock cars couldn't stand a chance against the Ram Air 4.
I always hear about people screwing with multi carb setups, like the dual quads on the hemis, or 3 deuces setups. It just bugs me to no end. If you don't know what you're doing, don't f#@k with it. Way too many guys back then messed up their carbs, turned the cars into losers, and then couldn't swallow their pride and get them professionally tuned. There's a local guy here that has a cherry '65 GTO, 389 tri-power. He's been screwing with the carbs for years and still hasn't got them right, but every time I offer my help, he just won't have it, even though I'm a certified tech. I even told him just to follow the directions in the service manual, and he still can't figure it out. He just cruises around town, never opens up the secondary carbs 'cause it fouls the plugs or back fires. Sorry for the rant, it just really rubs me the wrong way.
I had a '65 GTO tripower and never saw a need to touch the carb.s, always ran perfectly. And, yes, the hemis on the street couldn't keep up because they always misfired when wound out... The lead in the gas back in the day made deposits that shorted out the plugs in about 50 miles... prolly because of lack of swirl in hemi chambers... compared to wedge squish chambers...
@@BuzzLOLOL I read somewhere that during those days in Detroit, the Big Three would actually have young guys drive factory prepped cars in street races, kinda like for bragging rights and to spread word of mouth. Pontiac had this black '67 Firebird that was just a terror (not sure if it was a RA IV or a RA V). Point is, the Mopar guys would call them out, and the Pontiac guys would come over and stall the race for a little, or move the location a block over, so the Mopar's plugs would start to foul out before the race.
@@originalpunkSxE - Lot of the guys were like me back then, worked for the auto companies, got employee discounts on cars... lots of new cars get bought in any city that has auto factories... here in Toledo Ohio an hour from Detroit we have a a Ford factory, GM factory, two Chrysler/Jeep factories... make Wranglers and Gladiators... plus every model of Chrysler car, truck, van gets trans shipped through the Jeep parking lot...
@ RoadtestTV, you guys are doing a great job. Keep it up. I grew up around cars like these when I was a kid. Nice to see them running and running hard.
I had a 1967 GTO with Hurst His and Hers Shifter and Turbo 400 Automatic transmission. It had three two barrel carburetors, a hot cam, special headers and free flow exhaust system. I re-built the engine with 12 to 1 compression pistons and had the engine Blue Printed. The work was done by a guy who was very good at Pontiac equipment. I have no idea of the actually HP of the car but is won most street races I ran. Wish I still had it!
That was 2 street legends going toe to toe . The Ram Air IV is a street racing legend . Hard to beat in a sprint . The GTO Judge is as about as good as it gets “ALL RISE FOR THE JUDGE “
That RA IV was a complete Beast! Because that 69 442 was no slouch by any means. I've sing that 442 beat many of the more advertised and popular muscle cars. But let me throw this in: it's too bad GM scrapped Pontiac Ram Air V engine. If you thought the Ram IV was a beast or even a Hemi, then After experiencing a ride in the RA V would have convinced you that it was the Hulk Superman Batman Ironman and Spider-Man all rolled up into one! I know personally because a guy in Brooklyn had a full Ram Air V and at the time he was just about the best Pontiac expert on the east coast is name was Nunzi.
Had a 67 389 GTO, later a SS 396, 375 HP Nova. Nothing beats the sounds or smell of muscle cars from that era. Four barrel carbs howling in front of you trying to collapse the atmosphere followed by the loud angry snarl of a pissed off V8 behind you. Oh yeah, and my girlfriend at the time sitting beside me in a mini skirt and heels, life was good!!!!
Damn that Pontiac pulls like a freight train. The Olds red lighted on the second run, but still a pretty fair race for comparison purposes. Ram Air IV's were total beasts compared to Ram Air III's even though there was only a few HP difference in the published specs. It's common knowledge that Ram Air IV's make about 410+ HP at the crank. They were great engines as long as they stayed together. The bottom ends weren't known for being very strong.
Not so,I bought a crate engine in 1970 from Seltzer Pontiac in Chicago to replace a tired 389 in my '64 Goat.When I took it in to King Speed Shop in Lansing, IL to have it balanced and blueprinted,the head machinist called me and asked me if I knew what I had.I just said a Pontiac 400.He told me that it was a rare engine and he had never seen one.Said it's a round port, 4bolt main,forged crank,forged rods,and forged pistons,a serious motor.One piston with micro crack in skirt,one rod too skinny for side clearancing.Took two weeks to get new parts from Michigan.After all done,that engine revved over 7,000rpm at each shift,and the closer it got to that number the harder it pulled.That engine ended up somewhere around Midland,MI in 1978.Wish I knew where.In those days I was tearing into a lot of engines of all types and I never saw a factory valve train like it.Many Pontiacs in those days oiling and rod bearing problems around #6 journal,but not these special engines.Just for insurance I went with a Melling high volume pump and builder got me special TRW bearing set.This engine was a stock hemi killer,but a car short of the Racer Brown cammed hemis.That cam change became commonplace,as the 426 stage III wedge was a quicker car and the hemi guys hated that.
+CSXT8250 I DOUBT its STOCK, 110 mph trap speed is WAY above what they ran stock- lots of these so-called stock engines are stock LOOKING but have beefed/upgraded internals- I do think the Olds was stock.
Still the fastest stock Olds in the 1/4 mile was the factory 1966 W-30. Tri-power, factory outside air induction, battery in the trunk, balanced and blueprinted at the factory. Won the C/S Nationals in 1966 and 1967. Best with a 4.56 or 4.88 rear.
69 H/O is rated 380hp not 390..All 69's used the milder W-46 455 with a 285/287 cam. 68 H/O's used the wild 1st gen W-30 308 cam without air conditioning.
69 455 was rated at 390 hp @5000. 68 was rated at 365hp@4600.The W30 308 cam was only used in automatics the standards had 228 cams. whatever a 285/287 cam is it's not an Olds cam.
dennbb Completely wrong. The 285/287 cam was used in automatic W-30 and A/C Hurst Olds' of 68-9. It was also used in the W-34 Toronado. 308 cam was used in 66-7 W-30 and 68 thru 70 W-31. 328 cam was used in 68 thru 70 4 speed W-30. 68' H/O was RATED 390hp with or without A/C. 69 was 380..both ratings were given at 5000rpm.
I'm going on 80 yrs. old and I have all of the car mags from late 1969 through 1970 and never saw a legitimate drag test of a true *factory stock* 1970 RA IV that broke into the 13's. Please correct me if I'm wrong and name your source. . I did see a one run match-up from Englishtown pitting a factory stock 1970 GS Stage 1 (3.64 gears) against the same in a 1970 "Orbit Orange" RA IV GTO Judge (3.90 gears). That was in May HiPerf. Cars magazine. The GTO went 14.03/102.16 mph and the GS went 13.62/103.22 mph. The cams in the RA IV engine were pretty big one with 230/240 degrees duration @ .050" with a .500" lift because of the higher lift rocker ratio used in 1970. Same cam as the RA II, but the rocker ratio of the older RA II was lower. The Stage 1 cam duration was 208/226 degrees @ .050" with a .408"/.440" lift. . A big difference there. The RA IV could not be had with a/c, but the Stage 1 could, and most did. Larry Rose
It sounds like they're still allowing a lot of leeway. Anyone that has owned and driven various cars like myself including models almost identical to both of these, knows that the Olds doesn't launch well with street tires. Motor Trends 1970 442 W30 road test has the Olds running 13.9. They then put headers and slicks on it and record a 12.9.
Back when they were new a good friend of mine talked his step Dad into buying a new 69 Hurst Olds with 3:90 gears. He bought a silver 69 375 HP 4-speed Nova with a dark blue top and interior and soon installed 4:56 gears and a 850 Holley. They ran then weekly and the Nova always covered the Olds by around three cars .
The Judge is a bad ass car so I don't mean to take anything away from it but weren't the Hurst cars all auto, a little more optioned out, and sold more as a "gentleman's hot rod"? Given that I think it put up a pretty good fight. I like both but you see a lot more Judges and clones so if I could only pick one I'd still go with the Hurst.
Zach The Ripper You could say that would be even more relevant of the Gran Sport GSX 455. But the Olds was still probably a bit more optioned out. Although back then you could order cars just about any way you wanted them. If you wanted an SS454 Chevelle wagon with a 4spd and 4:11 12 bolt rear, you could get it! About 10+ years ago, I watched a tv show where they took about 5-6 stock muscle cars of that late 60s era, and had them compete in like 4-5 different events. It was like 1/4 mile, slalom, braking, etc. There was an SS Chevelle, a GSX, a Boss 429, a GTO, etc. When it was all said and done, the Boss 429 was 1st and the GSX in 2nd place.
In 1970,I Dropped one of these RA IV factory crate engines into my '64 GTO and topped it off with a 4160 Holley carb.This combo with 3.90 gears went sub 12.5's.Sometimes raced three times a night till the word got out,then the modified guys started hitting on me and it was win some, lose some.In stock trim,this was a bad,bad motor.Accused many time of being BBC transplant.Never let anyone see my motor,just told them it was a stock RA IV 400,they'd say BS and payed up.
P.S. I still think Chevy had a hand in getting rid of this engine because they were jealous. Remember Chevy was responsible for GM scrapping Pontiacs xb33 in the sixties it was equipped with a 326 HO and it was beating the crap out of that 327 powered Corvette
The performance of the Olds depicted here, is the same the car magazine testers got back in 69. The RA4 Goat...not so much. You don't suppose it's modified do you?
Yes it had a d port head 455HO in 1970 the first year which it appeared as an option for the judge half way through that model year so only 17 judge's were equipped with that engine and all were automatics. the 1971 gto judge had a round port 455Ho as the only engine offered
The gto was definitely not stock doing the 1/4 mile at 110 mph.a better time if it were stock is right at or around 100 mph in that distance. I have a muscle car book right here with me and motor trend test drove both cars at different times and in their times the Hurst does the 1/4 under 14 seconds stock and the ram air 4 was about mid 14s.not taking away from the judge as I love both cars but stock out of the box at least from motor trend the old is quicker in Stock form
The Ram Air IV's came with factory stock 433 gears in the rear. Advertised at 370hp, but actually made around 430hp. Hopefully this answers your question...
Brian Buchert the difference could be accounted for by comparing the 70s tires and pavement the cars were originally tested in to the far superior tires and pavement now
Back in the day, the magazines often tested with two people and timing equipment in the car and often with factory 'granny' ignition timing spec.s... Empty the car, driver only, and advanced timing most cars turned into animals! ruclips.net/video/NpmxaamNwhw/видео.html
Back in those times, times were not super accurate and the mags usually used stock tires. They also fudged a little now and then if they got paid to. Same cars now on current tires and accurate timing proves the reported times in those days were off on the high side
I love it when somewhat stock cars race. I am not interested in funny cars or highly modified cars. Stock cars like this is exciting.
yes it is and the bickering gets to a fevered pitch at times as well...lol!
1968 road test of 1968 Hurst Olds
ruclips.net/video/NpmxaamNwhw/видео.html
.
I AGREE!
For my tastes, bolt on headers would be cool, too
Integrated Athletic Systems Troy yes I agree. Because the basic characteristics of the car are still the same. Once you highly modified them with boost they’re completely different cars than they were from the factory
RAM AIR 4 was definitely underrated. 430-440hp was more like it.
The Ram 4 engine was awesome considering it was a 400, but as I mentioned elsewhere, the deciding factor is the 4 speed though I loved the bang-screech automatic. The Olds were proportionally faster with a 4 speed as well. Motor Trends 1970 442 W30 road test of an automatic ran 13.9. Subsequently, they put headers and slicks (for the day) on it, clocking a 12.9. One can extrapolate what the improvement would be over the automatic (I owned a 70 4 spd. and 69 auto) since it was rated higher and was lighter.
You will find the most Pontiac engines are under rated by about 20% , you also need to remember that GM at the time limited advertised HP to 1 hp per 10 lbs. Only the vette was exempted from this rule.
@@tomcherry7029 It's clear from the road tests which ones were overrated. Advertised HP affected insurance rates as well. Chev was inclined to go higher in order to garner more of the demographic they were targeting.
@@thelake3320 do you mean which ones were underrated?
@@tomcherry7029 I mean everything except Chevrolet.
Hear the intake roar?!!! Miss that low moan when the secondaries on the old Q-jets opened up!!!
i love this channel, and this why i subscribe..great match up, the 442 got the hit in the second race and still lost..i love old pontiac's, and that GTO was gorgeous :)
Thanks Brian. We really appreciate viewers like you.
Thanks for your support !
great race the ram air IV is hard to beat in the quarter. I've seen those things beat hemis, 440s, and the LS6.
oldgateway
That's right! The only thing they can't beat, are Fords....
Patrick McLeod that’s a good one. I think it’s more like the only thing a ford can beat is a 6 cylinder lemans
Adrian Peterson I think Lemans is capitalized so you are wrong in two ways.
Dyno Don what’s the other way I’m wrong I didn’t capitalize Ford? Because I know I’m not wrong about them being slow
"those things"?
The Olds was a torque monster...more of a street warrior. The RA 4 Goat was built for the drags. Awesome classics!
I used to own a 1969 H/O I N50 x15" on the rear. You could feel the body twist when you punched it. I have had faster cars but nothing compares to the feeling of a 4000 pound car twisting between your hands and you ass. I still get Shivers thinking about that Torque. over 550ft pounds some say 650 I never measured mine. you have to experience it to understand it. my best friend had a judge too but I aways bet him his other GTO not a chance it had a blown 455 Pontiac. that was a monster
The 455 Olds was the big softy of the GM big blocks. This one got covered by 9 mph by a 400 cubic inch car.
I had a 69 GTO with a Ram Air 4 stock engine, it was very street able but the top end was phenomenal. My Hemi friends had lots of power but could not keep them tuned for street use. All the rest of the comparable stock cars couldn't stand a chance against the Ram Air 4.
I always hear about people screwing with multi carb setups, like the dual quads on the hemis, or 3 deuces setups. It just bugs me to no end. If you don't know what you're doing, don't f#@k with it. Way too many guys back then messed up their carbs, turned the cars into losers, and then couldn't swallow their pride and get them professionally tuned. There's a local guy here that has a cherry '65 GTO, 389 tri-power. He's been screwing with the carbs for years and still hasn't got them right, but every time I offer my help, he just won't have it, even though I'm a certified tech. I even told him just to follow the directions in the service manual, and he still can't figure it out. He just cruises around town, never opens up the secondary carbs 'cause it fouls the plugs or back fires. Sorry for the rant, it just really rubs me the wrong way.
I had a '65 GTO tripower and never saw a need to touch the carb.s, always ran perfectly. And, yes, the hemis on the street couldn't keep up because they always misfired when wound out... The lead in the gas back in the day made deposits that shorted out the plugs in about 50 miles... prolly because of lack of swirl in hemi chambers... compared to wedge squish chambers...
@@BuzzLOLOL I read somewhere that during those days in Detroit, the Big Three would actually have young guys drive factory prepped cars in street races, kinda like for bragging rights and to spread word of mouth. Pontiac had this black '67 Firebird that was just a terror (not sure if it was a RA IV or a RA V). Point is, the Mopar guys would call them out, and the Pontiac guys would come over and stall the race for a little, or move the location a block over, so the Mopar's plugs would start to foul out before the race.
@@originalpunkSxE - Lot of the guys were like me back then, worked for the auto companies, got employee discounts on cars... lots of new cars get bought in any city that has auto factories... here in Toledo Ohio an hour from Detroit we have a a Ford factory, GM factory, two Chrysler/Jeep factories... make Wranglers and Gladiators... plus every model of Chrysler car, truck, van gets trans shipped through the Jeep parking lot...
A really good race! I had a hard time deciding which to root for since I like and have owned both brands. Thumb up!
I love them both! No winner here! Both did similarly well.🤟🥰👍
awesome race! love pontiacs!!
More GTO races coming!
Thanks for watching !!
That GTO driver knows how to bang some gears. Good job. Very impressive runner.
Yeah, and they should be roughly the same weight, so the Pontiac simply has more power.
It's fun watching these films. Muscle cars with raw engine power, no turbos, no nitrous, or other gimmicks!
@ RoadtestTV, you guys are doing a great job. Keep it up. I grew up around cars like these when I was a kid. Nice to see them running and running hard.
Thanks for watching TheRebuttle.
We have more old school muscle coming.
Couldn't do it with your support. Thanks again.
I had a 1967 GTO with Hurst His and Hers Shifter and Turbo 400 Automatic transmission. It had three two barrel carburetors, a hot cam, special headers and free flow exhaust system. I re-built the engine with 12 to 1 compression pistons and had the engine Blue Printed. The work was done by a guy who was very good at Pontiac equipment. I have no idea of the actually HP of the car but is won most street races I ran. Wish I still had it!
Thanks for sharing !!
Pretty similar to the one I have. Except I am running a 455 Ram air lV .041 hydraulic cam.
My 2 Favorite American Musclecars For The Year 1969!!!
That was 2 street legends going toe to toe . The Ram Air IV is a street racing legend . Hard to beat in a sprint . The GTO Judge is as about as good as it gets “ALL RISE FOR THE JUDGE “
Gary C.
Yeah Gary👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Blackout 65 will the judge beat a 1970 Buick gsx 455 stage 1
The Olds 455 is a tire shredding powerhouse, but the RA IV is tops.
Pontiac strikes again!
Drive them both...Olds will steal your heart
the high revving ram air 4 was built for the qtr mile
One best race ive seen
That RA IV was a complete Beast! Because that 69 442 was no slouch by any means. I've sing that 442 beat many of the more advertised and popular muscle cars. But let me throw this in: it's too bad GM scrapped Pontiac Ram Air V engine. If you thought the Ram IV was a beast or even a Hemi, then After experiencing a ride in the RA V would have convinced you that it was the Hulk Superman Batman Ironman and Spider-Man all rolled up into one! I know personally because a guy in Brooklyn had a full Ram Air V and at the time he was just about the best Pontiac expert on the east coast is name was Nunzi.
I had a '69 Firebird with a Ram Air IV and it was a beast! I still think about that car and what it would be worth today.
Both are beautiful cars.
Pontiac definitely did their homework on the Ram Air IV. Both cars are beautiful.
it was a god video i love the 1969 hurst olds and the pontiac gto ram air iv judge 1969 tums upp
This is a "GREAT" channel!
Had a 67 389 GTO, later a SS 396, 375 HP Nova. Nothing beats the sounds or smell of muscle cars from that era. Four barrel carbs howling in front of you trying to collapse the atmosphere followed by the loud angry snarl of a pissed off V8 behind you. Oh yeah, and my girlfriend at the time sitting beside me in a mini skirt and heels, life was good!!!!
@Darthgrundle Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you had awesome time with old school muscle !
Love those gto's!
Damn that Pontiac pulls like a freight train. The Olds red lighted on the second run, but still a pretty fair race for comparison purposes. Ram Air IV's were total beasts compared to Ram Air III's even though there was only a few HP difference in the published specs. It's common knowledge that Ram Air IV's make about 410+ HP at the crank. They were great engines as long as they stayed together. The bottom ends weren't known for being very strong.
The RA IV had 4 bolt mains, The bottom end is very stout. Ask Big Chief from Street Outlaws. It handles 2000 + horsepower.
Not so,I bought a crate engine in 1970 from Seltzer Pontiac in Chicago to replace a tired 389 in my '64 Goat.When I took it in to King Speed Shop in Lansing, IL to have it balanced and blueprinted,the head machinist called me and asked me if I knew what I had.I just said a Pontiac 400.He told me that it was a rare engine and he had never seen one.Said it's a round port, 4bolt main,forged crank,forged rods,and forged pistons,a serious motor.One piston with micro crack in skirt,one rod too skinny for side clearancing.Took two weeks to get new parts from Michigan.After all done,that engine revved over 7,000rpm at each shift,and the closer it got to that number the harder it pulled.That engine ended up somewhere around Midland,MI in 1978.Wish I knew where.In those days I was tearing into a lot of engines of all types and I never saw a factory valve train like it.Many Pontiacs in those days oiling and rod bearing problems around #6 journal,but not these special engines.Just for insurance I went with a Melling high volume pump and builder got me special TRW bearing set.This engine was a stock hemi killer,but a car short of the Racer Brown cammed hemis.That cam change became commonplace,as the 426 stage III wedge was a quicker car and the hemi guys hated that.
The Pontiac bottom end could handle the RPMs that were in the power curve but some people think you need to rev it to the moon when you race.
Love the GTO 400 Judge man they were quick, whipped the Olds ass two in a row.
Olds guy couldn't drive... even redlighted...
ruclips.net/video/NpmxaamNwhw/видео.html
2 of my favorites.
That GTO could really move fast!
I love it! I'm still trying to digest that 400p walking that 455olds despite the torque difference. Thanks for sharing!
This Olds ran as they did in 1969..100 or so trap speed..No RA-IV Judge ran 110 back in the day without being messed with.
john robert I've seen stock Ram Air IIIs run 100 in the quarter back in the day.
I don't doubt that at all..But not 110.
+CSXT8250 I DOUBT its STOCK, 110 mph trap speed is WAY above what they ran stock- lots of these so-called stock engines are stock LOOKING but have beefed/upgraded internals- I do think the Olds was stock.
Ram Air IV
Love it. Keep'em moving.
Still the fastest stock Olds in the 1/4 mile was the factory 1966 W-30. Tri-power, factory outside air induction, battery in the trunk, balanced and blueprinted at the factory. Won the C/S Nationals in 1966 and 1967. Best with a 4.56 or 4.88 rear.
:-Pleased to own a 1969 428 SJ (Super Judge) I picked out off the Pontiac lot BRAND NEW 45 years ago; and haven't seen one like it yet. VIRGIN...
your'e full of it
I have read about those. Did you get from Royal Pontiac?
Super Judge? LOL my ass
Tyler Labriola No he's not. At least not about the existence of the car. But the SJ was a Grand Prix. Not a GTO.
It didn't stand for Super Judge. It was the Sport model of the Grand Prix. The "S" was Sport and the "J" was the model.
69 H/O is rated 380hp not 390..All 69's used the milder W-46 455 with a 285/287 cam. 68 H/O's used the wild 1st gen W-30 308 cam without air conditioning.
69 455 was rated at 390 hp @5000. 68 was rated at 365hp@4600.The W30 308 cam was only used in automatics the standards had 228 cams. whatever a 285/287 cam is it's not an Olds cam.
dennbb Completely wrong. The 285/287 cam was used in automatic W-30 and A/C Hurst Olds' of 68-9. It was also used in the W-34 Toronado.
308 cam was used in 66-7 W-30 and 68 thru 70 W-31.
328 cam was used in 68 thru 70 4 speed W-30.
68' H/O was RATED 390hp with or without A/C. 69 was 380..both ratings were given at 5000rpm.
john robert I'm not wrong winekpedia or wherever you looked it up is wrong
I didn't look on Wiki..I checked my factory parts manuals. I owned a 68 H/O and several 442's. You ARE wrong.
john robert You're not the only one who thinks dennbb is out of his mind.
That Pontiac 400 is way underappreciated. Though the Hurt Olds was capable of much better times then what this driver put down.
Good race
I'm going on 80 yrs. old and I have all of the car mags from late 1969 through 1970 and never saw a legitimate drag test of a true *factory stock* 1970 RA IV that broke into the 13's. Please correct me if I'm wrong and name your source. . I did see a one run match-up from Englishtown pitting a factory stock 1970 GS Stage 1 (3.64 gears) against the same in a 1970 "Orbit Orange" RA IV GTO Judge (3.90 gears). That was in May HiPerf. Cars magazine. The GTO went 14.03/102.16 mph and the GS went 13.62/103.22 mph. The cams in the RA IV engine were pretty big one with 230/240 degrees duration @ .050" with a .500" lift because of the higher lift rocker ratio used in 1970. Same cam as the RA II, but the rocker ratio of the older RA II was lower. The Stage 1 cam duration was 208/226 degrees @ .050" with a .408"/.440" lift. . A big difference there. The RA IV could not be had with a/c, but the Stage 1 could, and most did. Larry Rose
Here comes the JUDGE all rise
With the GTO being a 4 speed car gives it a huge advantage over the 3 speed auto only Hurst/ Olds. Nice runs
actually 100% stock from the showroom the olds was faster
Very entertaining but really the cars are so old now(like me) there is no telling what is stock on them!
Most of them were faster stock unless they were tuned by someone that knew what they were doing.
Tyler, you can go to the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race website and see the rules how stock these cars are.
Olds redlighted in the second race and the Goat still came back and nearly got him on the big end.
The tiger under the hood performed as it should but I’ll take both
It sounds like they're still allowing a lot of leeway. Anyone that has owned and driven various cars like myself including models almost identical to both of these, knows that the Olds doesn't launch well with street tires. Motor Trends 1970 442 W30 road test has the Olds running 13.9. They then put headers and slicks on it and record a 12.9.
Pontiac has a 55 cubic inch disadvantage, but still pulls off a win.
you mean the olds which is the 455
Of course the goat is lighter!,and has a 4 speed.
Pontiac can't be stock factory...
Both beautiful nasty cars but I admit I'm partial to the RAIV GTO. That left lane seems to hold an advantage as I've seen over several videos.
Vaya Bro buena carrera ese es un 1969 Pontiac gto the judge RAM Air IV 400 vs Oldsmobile Hurst 442 455 Ho
GTO BABY
Back when they were new a good friend of mine talked his step Dad into buying a new 69 Hurst Olds with 3:90 gears. He bought a silver 69 375 HP 4-speed Nova with a dark blue top and interior and soon installed 4:56 gears and a 850 Holley. They ran then weekly and the Nova always covered the Olds by around three cars .
The Judge is a bad ass car so I don't mean to take anything away from it but weren't the Hurst cars all auto, a little more optioned out, and sold more as a "gentleman's hot rod"? Given that I think it put up a pretty good fight. I like both but you see a lot more Judges and clones so if I could only pick one I'd still go with the Hurst.
lol give me any poncho 69-72 trans am grand prix gto
Zach The Ripper
You could say that would be even more relevant of the Gran Sport GSX 455. But the Olds was still probably a bit more optioned out. Although back then you could order cars just about any way you wanted them. If you wanted an SS454 Chevelle wagon with a 4spd and 4:11 12 bolt rear, you could get it!
About 10+ years ago, I watched a tv show where they took about 5-6 stock muscle cars of that late 60s era, and had them compete in like 4-5 different events. It was like 1/4 mile, slalom, braking, etc. There was an SS Chevelle, a GSX, a Boss 429, a GTO, etc. When it was all said and done, the Boss 429 was 1st and the GSX in 2nd place.
The two baddest n fastest cars on the streets of 1969
Just like 1969 Woodard Ave. I know cars are quicker today, it just not the same!!!! 2022
In 1970,I Dropped one of these RA IV factory crate engines into my '64 GTO and topped it off with a 4160 Holley carb.This combo with 3.90 gears went sub 12.5's.Sometimes raced three times a night till the word got out,then the modified guys started hitting on me and it was win some, lose some.In stock trim,this was a bad,bad motor.Accused many time of being BBC transplant.Never let anyone see my motor,just told them it was a stock RA IV 400,they'd say BS and payed up.
John Runion
Absolutely awesome 👏🏻
Which is better for me, in General? I get the Judge is faster, but which is better...?
GTO was a fast car...
i could have bought a 4-speed judge for $ 1.200 back in 1976
@Jim Wise - I sold my '65 GTO tripower 4 speed convertible for $400 in 1972... couple minor rust spots... should have kept it...
Here come the Judge . All Rise
The left lane is the ringer.
Trap speed suggests the GTO has 50 to 75 HP over the Olds.
I'd part with a testicle for either one.
Sorry, we've got all those we need.
@@gingerelvira6587
Up to your eyeballs, I'm sure.
That Hurst Olds needs a tuneup... missing 5 - 10 MPH... did poorly even when came off the line best in 2nd race...
can i have one of those? WOW
Go PONCHO!!!
What rear end gear's in the H/O 3:25:1. And the GTO. 3:90:1 or the driver of the H / O can't race probably feathered the gas lol...
What if a 70 GSX Stage ll pulled up, then what?
I would eat it for lunch with my 70 Chevelle SS LS-6 and your junk gsx
70 GSX was the king
bonzo442 what about the 1970 boss 429 no chance against the Buick even a 1971 mustang boss 351
This just shows you incompetency with drivers given the different Lanes
The Olds red lighted and the Goat beat him.
2nd race, that's a little bit more like it
Yeah I didn't like Oldsmobile heads they just didn't have the capacity for heavy flow thus restricting.
P.S. I still think Chevy had a hand in getting rid of this engine because they were jealous. Remember Chevy was responsible for GM scrapping Pontiacs xb33 in the sixties it was equipped with a 326 HO and it was beating the crap out of that 327 powered Corvette
Nice cars, olds is a nicer looking car in my opinion
Badass
Anyone knows how the gto has soo much lift in the 1st race? i need my car to do that
It's called NOT BEING STOCK. The shocks are after-market, with a lower extension resistance.
get a cam at the finish line
I guess Hurst should have used a Muncie. Lol
Hurst automatic shifter...
The performance of the Olds depicted here, is the same the car magazine testers got back in 69. The RA4 Goat...not so much. You don't suppose it's modified do you?
No more Pontiac, Olds, Plymouth, etc. thats some real sad shit. What could have been.
Good way to put it. May they live on on restorations.
Did the Judge also have a 455?
no just a pontiac 400
yes i believe it was an option in 71
HorseRancher92 I know it was an option but just wondered if this particular one had the option
Yes it had a d port head 455HO in 1970 the first year which it appeared as an option for the judge half way through that model year so only 17 judge's were equipped with that engine and all were automatics. the 1971 gto judge had a round port 455Ho as the only engine offered
Ram Air IV is a 400ci engine
Cooler heads prevail!
Sure looked like that Olds won the second time.
Ok tough decision but I’d still take the olds, hey my family only had olds growing up so it in my bloodlines
Even tho the olds lost its still a way nicer looking car
I say rear end gear's or driver's feather the gas to scared to hammer it.
The gto was definitely not stock doing the 1/4 mile at 110 mph.a better time if it were stock is right at or around 100 mph in that distance. I have a muscle car book right here with me and motor trend test drove both cars at different times and in their times the Hurst does the 1/4 under 14 seconds stock and the ram air 4 was about mid 14s.not taking away from the judge as I love both cars but stock out of the box at least from motor trend the old is quicker in Stock form
The Ram Air IV's came with factory stock 433 gears in the rear. Advertised at 370hp, but actually made around 430hp. Hopefully this answers your question...
The GTO Ram air 400 was stock, I have seen then bone stock run better times w/ the right driver.
Brian Buchert the difference could be accounted for by comparing the 70s tires and pavement the cars were originally tested in to the far superior tires and pavement now
Back in the day, the magazines often tested with two people and timing equipment in the car and often with factory 'granny' ignition timing spec.s... Empty the car, driver only, and advanced timing most cars turned into animals!
ruclips.net/video/NpmxaamNwhw/видео.html
Back in those times, times were not super accurate and the mags usually used stock tires. They also fudged a little now and then if they got paid to. Same cars now on current tires and accurate timing proves the reported times in those days were off on the high side
My 2020 Tesla Model Y is faster. These are the NEW good old days.
🐖🐖pigs Hurst Olds falls on its face on top end