Another turning point in star trek universe was return of Voyager to alpha quadrant. They had hyper drive, ablated armor, and all kinds of amazing technology. A single ship defeated the Borg base with thousands of cubes.
The death of so many Klingons might have a similar effect as the Black Death did on Europe. It might shake up the feudal system so much that the Klingons end up having to drastically increase pay for individuals to make up for the lack of a workforce, which could in turn kickstart a Klingon renaissance and eventually an enlightenment.
Better then that even, at least in my opinion. One of the challenges with with a fighting and honor based society is that without real combat it can become unmoored from any behavior that actually helps the state survive where honor ends up being more about dick measuring contests and honor duels. The Dominion war ensured that every Klingon has a real record to fall back upon for a generation. On top of that this may be the first time in centuries where the Klingons have been given a really good reason to respect war. Another challenge of a fighting and honor based society is that you have a bunch of people over eager to start fights underestimating and misunderstanding how dangerous war is, while the Klingons payed a high price in blood and treasure for this lesson it's precisely that price that might make them a bit more sober about the prospect of war. Finally the war really ended on a high note for the Klingons where they were the only ones able to meaningfully engage the Breen not because the Klingons were superior warriors or anything but because of a quirk of technology giving them ample reason to elevate the positions of engineers and scientists in the empire. Combined with the fact that Martok is also pretty good leadership material and the Klingons have a chance to reinvent and revitalize themselves in a pretty huge way.
I read somewhere that the klingons eventually joined the federation because of the losses they suffered. They didnt just loose people. They lost ships, bases etc. So it makes sense
Allowing the Klingons to keep their gains _does make sense:_ It will encourage the Cardassians to join the Federation and give Martok the political capital to undertake massive reforms of the Klingon Government. Martok is the first Chancellor in living memory to actually gain *and keep* substantial territory for the Empire via conquest. Along with his personal popularly and unquestioned honour, he will have the _political muscle to push through any measures to stem corruption_ - and the corrupt won't be able to push back. Ordinarily just trying to implement any anti corruption measures in the Empire would be doomed to failure. So by the end of Martok's reign the Klingon Empire is possibly the Klingon parliamentary democracy. At the very least it's not the unstable Byzantine cesspool that was the dangerous status quo. As for the Cardassians, having the Klingons as neighbours would encourage them to go all in in the Federation, out of fear, as the Federation are the only ones who's territory the Klingons would respect. Or the writers just forgot about the Klingons War.
I believe the Klingons also sustained disproportionate losses during the wars as well... holding off the Breen being one point and I believe it had been mentioned a large amount of the ground forces for the invasion of several Dominion worlds were also Klingon. Maybe it had been decided that the cost to the Empire required some additional consideration.
Since there are clear parallels between the Dominion War and the Second World War, that tracks. The major powers who gained from that were the Americans (Federation) and Soviet Union (Klingons) - despite the fact that one of the opening acts of the Second World War was the Nazi Soviet Pact, that pretty much guaranteed a war in the West. It's rewarding aggression - but it's also Realpolitik.
@@johnpotts8308 I was thinking that too. How the soviets charged into poland for a land grab that kicked off the war, kinda mirrors the klingons here. Then the fact that they got to keep eastern europe after the war..yeah lol.
@@mikesmith3588 the klingons did take disproportionate losses, because they not only started fighting the cardassians and the dominion before the federation and the romulans joined it, the klingons have a warrior culture built on honor being won in battle and as such they threw more of their troops into difficult combat situations to prove their honor, strength, cunning, and tenacity. It also didn't help that Gowron was throwing troops away to make Martok look like a fool, coward, and loser in a stupid political move to solidify his position as chancellor before Worf killed him.
@@johnpotts8308 I always saw the Romulans as the Soviets in the dominion war, they're an ally of necessity and afterward they're going to move right back to being rivals.
This explains why Starfleet is so much different in Picard. A lot of the command structure by then is people who joined Starfleet during the Dominion War, rather than those who joined as explorers. These are the people who were young officers, even cadets, and battled the Dominion. That will have affected their outlook and their attitudes for their entire careers.
It begs the question why they hate Romulans as though they had fought them rather then as an ally in need, given they'd only know the Romulans as an ally and member in waiting.
I still can't believe no one has ever done a series post dominion war, ds9 had such a massive impact on the quadrant as whole but for some reason cbs is still inisitent on doing prequals and the picard series made no mention of it at all. i mean cmon.
Give it time, Picard was a character show. Not a traditional trek type show. The thing is, the real world has moved on by decades, if you want to revisit the time right admfter these events you cant use the original cast or characters. You would have to establish a whole new cast and setting while somehow still making a meaningful connection to those events. We more than likely will see a show eventually set either 20 ish years after the war in a similar timeframe as Picard or they may do the TNG thing and move several decades forward to take advantage of open opportunities for storytelling.
@@DrewLSsix this is true but i mean the mars attacks were an event just as impactful as the dominion war and the show seemed to not shut up about it.yet there is not one mention of the dominion war. i mean heck they make mention of locutus a few times. to be fair as well one other factor is the enterprise did not fight in the dominion war.(discovery may have slightly ironically given an in universe reason as to why though as I am assumeing its the same reason the enterprise did not fight during the klingon war in discovery)
I Severely Disagree on the Federation Post Dominion War as being more like the Original series' Federation, for several reasons, but to simplify: TOS the Federation we see are the armed explorers of the Wild West, TNG Explorers who are most comparable to scientific explorers of the twentieth century, before 9 11 and the severe upswing in terrorism into the public eye and consciousness. Then the Federations' 9 11 occurs, the battle of Wolf359, the fear of the Borg and an actual war against the Dominion replacing the "War on Terror". The Federation post Dominion war didn't go back to the optimistic but armed Wild West explorers of TOS, but to the traumatized soldiers trying to pretend everything's fine when they step out their door.
I would say a better comparison would be that post dominion war federation was more like that from Wrath of Khan on. They clearly seemed to be a military first organization that did exploration when things permitted but were always ready for war with the Klingon's.
Rumred I still disagree, mainly because that era was a culture formed in preparation for a war that ultimately never materialized. The Dominion war is the first war the Federation fought since, well, since the war with the Romulan before the Federation even formed officially. The era Post Dominion was shaped by veterans, survivors, and fresh cadets. It’s a very different culture then one preparing for war.
@@QuestionDeca True but in terms of how starfleet was organized and how it had more of a military first attitude the two or very similar. Also the federation I thought did fight some small wars with the klingons ( before the discovery retcon) but never had the big one but they were worried about it.
@@Whatatwist2009 there was the Four Years War with the Klingons. Mostly with the Klingons though it was a Cold War as you are pointing out where they pulled shit like Sherman's Planet on each other.
All that you just said helps explain Picard resigning from Starfleet over the evacuation mission. It is a sign that those traumatized soldiers lost their way. But, one thing you did not mention is that state is mostly because the Hero Of The Dominion War itself was not with them after the war for long; that Hero was Captain Sisko. They all looked up to him, not to Picard, and it shows. Had he stayed in Starfleet, the outcome of Starfleet post the war would be different. The Romulan Supernova reflected a major challenge that Starfleet was not prepared for. Only Picard was, because at its heart, it required Starfleet personnel of his time to be handled well enough, not battle hardened soldiers, and we saw hints of that sentiment in The Undiscovered Country with the Praxus Incident and some in Starfleet rebelling against the efforts.
The power of Starfleet kind of lead to the Picard series concept of it not being StarFleet but a rag-tag crew, since StarFleet is so powerful - you mess with StarFleet and you're facing overwhelming force. So logically what is the status of StarFleet and the Federation that's not mentioned in Picard? Well a lot of humans in StarFleet would have been killed during the war as they made up the bulk of the pre war numbers, so there may well be a lot more Aliens in StarFleet among the newer recruits, leading to more diversity of abilities. And as for those recruits… Ferengi females would be joining in numbers, because they still have to deal with the legacy of misogyny and lack of business capital on Ferenginar. So the non sexist Federation would seem like a good option, and they bring a lot of advantages including a different cynical perspective (and immunity to be telepathy, which can be useful) and a talent for logistics and bargaining - a few would've been useful on Voyager, they cover a skillset that most 24th century humans lack The Cardassians will join, because that's the best option for protection. Bajor will be back inside the Federation soon enough (they were independent just as a Dominion War manoeuvre, and it just wasn't a priority to fix that during the last days), so it's far better to be inside as well so the Bajorians can't lobby for punitive damages. Any other local power (Klingons…) will subjugate them, they need to be part of the Federation for their own survival - besides all the vehement militaristic Cardassians were standing next to Jem'Hadar when the hammer came down. And StarFleet could have just sat back and let Cardassia Prime get demolished, that they didn't would have gone over well with the populace. Having Cardassians and Ferengi on your crew will mean that StarFleet ships crews won't be naive idealists suckers. The big question [and one worthy of a video] is what happened with Betazed? The planet was occupied during the war and some nasty stuff went on. Did it affect the attitude of the population, are they more militant… and most importantly will they be joining StarFleet in any numbers? There abilities are such a game changer that the only way a mole could survive in StarFleet is if they were a skilled telepath themself and could keep up a mind shield. As for the Klingons, they fought side by side with Humans, and Humans, being Human, there will be a _lot_ of Klingon/Human hybrids that are just reaching adulthood now. And the Klingons will respect Federation territory, so it's another reason for other species to sign on with the Federation - it automatically takes you off the Klingons dance card. Assume that as long as Martok is alive that relations are very good, he likes Humans and also understands them (better than most Humans do). Does he succeed in moving the Klingon Empire away from a feudalistic society? Can he change the rules of succession so that a non corrupt leader can be elected afterwards. He may well seek to institute massive reforms because he has the authority and respect… and political captial to do so. But even if the Klingons went back to type, they are too overmatched to be a threat. Especially with the Romulans mostly out of the picture. The Breen… unless it was the same idiots who did the treaty of Algernon, the Breen will have to give up their secrets and be subjected to inspections, so there goes their air of mystery. And all the losers will get their technology reverse engineered by StarFleet no doubt. Just think, if the Breen hadn't joined the Dominion, they could've won a post war War, because their energy dampener would have been unchallenged. It was only blind luck that that one Klingon ship discovered the settings to be immune. And it was a hole in Dominion security that allowed a ship to be hijacked. Joining the Dominion really can suck when it comes to long term goals of conquest. And as for the Dominion, they are relatively stagnant, while StarFleet constantly innovates. Some time in the future, the Federation will reach the Dominions territory in the Gamma Quadrant without using the wormhole. And they will be a lot more powerful than the Dominion by then, and on guard.
Wow!!! You put alot of time and thought in this comment. Either Google should send you and trophy, or somebody who grew up with "The Golden Age of Star Trek" who works at CBS hires you to make an real Star Trek show, and not the bullshit CBS is making now.
The Breen made the rational choice. If they joined the Alpha Quadrant Alliance and lost, they would be exterminated, if they joined the Dominion and lost, they would lose territory and technological secrets.
I personally would militarize the Fededation of Planets to eventually become like the Galactic Republic in Star Wars. Then the last stage would be to declare a Galactic Empire over all species.
Due to its telepathic population Betazed might have gone into isolation due to experiencing the trauma of those who suffered in the occupation, so to heal mentality. I think the Breen originally developed the energy dampening weapon to combat the klingons. Once the Dominion discovered it existence they offered them a deal ether they joined them and gained power in the Alpha quadrant or they're allow the Klingons to find out the Breen were planning to destroy the empire piece by piece and once their fleet was gone others including the Romulans would mop up the rest
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough while true, nothing reshaped the world quite like the end of World War 1. The Austrian-Hungarian Empire and Ottoman Empire both were dissolved, Russia was overthrown, several new countries were formed, and the United States became a world power
@@christophercole8114 The united states already were a world power ... Just look at the pacific situation... I became one after they supported cuba in the cuban-spanish-american war ... Colonies like the philipeans,etc. getting into american control ..
@@majormononoke8958 I think he meant it was the first time that the United States seriously involved in the geopolitics of Europe after World War 1. Before their main concerns of interests in were in North, South American, East and Southeast Asia, the Pacific ocean area.
Well Odo did go back to the Great Link at the end of DS9, so the assumption that the Gamma Quadrant didn't go back to war is because all the changelings in the Link felt the emotions of Odo and his experiences and memories. It was smart of Starfleet to hold the female changeling as a war criminal because has she gone back to the Link. Her emotional hatred of the 'solids' would have influenced the Great Link.
She was just one individual in a species of xenophobes. If anything her imprisonment would force the Dominion to obey the ceasefire. The Founders would never risk her safety by resuming hostilities.
@@tompearce5418 Xenophobia means the fear of the others. I am pretty sure the Founders in the Link were mistrustful of solids and some disliked solids. But the female Founder actually fought the war in the Alpha Quadrant and in her eyes 'betrayed' by her solid allies. She has memories of fighing a bitter war and losing and the last moments betrayed by the Cardassians. Heck in her eyes the genocide of the Cardassians was justified; that was the amount of hatred for the solids she had. If she merged with the Link, some of the founders in the Link who were on the fence aka mistrustful and disliked solids would have been swayed with her memories.
Another likely problem faced bt the Federation would stem from worlds thqt were previously isolated or protected by the Prime Directive. I am sure the Dominion would have landed on / invaded any of these worlds if they provided an advantage... as would the Federations Klingon and Romulan allies. Post war what do you do with them? What assistance and dwiddling resources do you put forward towards this issue? So many possible story lines
I imagine they'd create a committee of experts from across the Federation to figure out the best way to handle the situation based on the planet's circumstances. Come up with criteria where they leave and pull a "Picard and his broken shoulder on Mentaka 3", versus criteria where the planet was close enough to warp that they "bend" the Prime Directive and do a "Vulcan being warp teases after First Contact".
1) Among the victors, the Klingons probably suffered the highest loses, so there is reason for them to demand compensation in the form of Cardassian territory at the peace table. 2) It's unclear if the Romulans captured any Cardassian territory by war's end, but if they did, their treacherous nature casts doubt on whether they would relinquish it, even if they signed a treaty that said they would do so. 3) I don't see evidence for your conclusion that the Romulans fought poorly during the Dominion War. Yes, they lost their ships during the failed attack on the Founder's homeworld, but that was a tiny fraction of their fleet. The Romulan strategy of staying out of the war until late when all the combatants were beaten up was smart. Unlike the Federation, I never heard of the Romulans losing any planets to the Dominion, and it sounded like the Romulans only ever advanced forward into Cardassian space. 4) Cardassia was always a second-rate power, and the Dominion War definitely relegated it to permanent third-rate status. Remember that, before the Dominion War, Cardassia was evolving into a democracy, and I suspect that process would have resumed after the War. Also, the Federation would surely give Cardassia the most postwar aid, which would ingratiate the Cardassians and influence their society and politics. However, they seemed like too proud a people to join the Federation. 5) The postwar impact on the Dominion is less clear. Yes, the fleet they sent into the Alpha Quadrant was ultimately expendable, and their massive reserves left in the Gamma Quadrant were untouched. However, the virus that the Great Link was infected with might have done more damage than thought. Maybe it didn't just sicken the Founders, but it killed many of them. We can't tell because the Great Link looks like a sea of uniform goo, but it is probably full of discrete individual blobs of goo, and its possible many of the individuals got so sick that they died before Odo arrived with the cure. If the War was a high-casualty event for the Founders, then it surely scarred them, shook their confidence, and would make them wary of attacking the Alpha Quadrant again. Odo's psychological influence on them would also help to that end. A likely outcome would have been a less aggressive Dominion that treated its subjects a little better, but still didn't want to be friends with anyone else.
Accordin to "tales of the Dominion War" The Federation sufferred 90 Billion casualties. The UFP was the Dominion's primary target. They knew we were the primary power in the Alpha Quadrant.
@@KH4444444444N I didn't know that. Given their reckless nature and craving for death in battle, I suspect the Klingons suffered a higher per capita casualty rate than the Federation or Romulans. Also, remember that a "casualty" is not the same thing as a "fatality." Casualties include people who were wounded, even slightly. And thanks to the Federation's advanced medical treatments, even most casualties with severe injuries were probably healed. The 90 billion casualty figure could mean a fatality figure in the single-digit billions.
@@funkervogt47 Order the paperback novel :Tales of The Domion War. The cover has Human, Andorian, and Vulcan hands clutching the flag of the United Federation of Planets against a burning background. Edited by Keith RA DeCandido.
All the shows since DS9 seem to gloss over the affects of the war, they all seem to reflect more on Borg invasions. Also, may be as a special breakdown of ships built specifically designed to fight the Borg or Dominion.
And a few years later starfleet got a multi alien AND TIME TRAVELED upgraded intrepid class ship literally spat out at earth by a Borg transwarp corridor (seriously what were the Borg planning with that?!) complete with god armor, 1 shot torpedos and a list of every potential threat of the Delta quadrant to the federation. Seriously, at that point I think only the Borg could put up a fight, with probably worst losses than 8472.
1stgradevernacular If I recall voyager still had the armor in the final shot of the series finale. I think the rule when it comes to temporal paradox is there anything the time traveler takes with them stays, Plus all she did was just hand off the plans to build the armor and torpedos, no actual hardware.
The Borg in Endgame were planning use the transwarp corridor to do to the Federation what they did to Guinan's people; sweep the system leaving only small scattered communities behind. They were supposed to invade and Assimilate the entire Federation on the very date Voyager got home. It is this temporal shift between timelines that allows future Janeway into the events without repercussions, since Voyager getting home leads to the Temporal Cold War.
I'm pleased that you acknowledged that the Federation likely came out stronger. The war only lasted 2 years. As you mentioned that first year losses were bad, the feds were still ramping up production. If the War dragged on another year. It may have been possible that the Federation production levels would have made the outcome of the war a forgone conclusion. Yes the Dominion could build ships fast, but we know the Cardassians are resource poor. As for the war starting again. If the timeline was 5-10 years after, the Feds are fully recovered the Dominion is ready to try again. That would have been a massive epic war.
Also, given the Federation's ability to engineer their way out of problems, I am sure they would speed up production of existing ships and make faster-to-build ships.
Vreenak teased Sisko that Dominion ship and troop factories were at 100% capacity while the Federation was still rebuilding their shipyards. While he was right that the Federation was at a manpower disadvantage having to raise troops the old fashioned way, his jab revealed that the Federation has a massive untapped industrial capacity.
First, let's hope Odo can help the Founders learn to be peaceful and trusting. Second, Martok and Worf will lead the Klingon Empire into something greater. Also, a separate treaty between the Klingons and whatever government forms on Cardassia can fix the issue of the border. Third, I am sure that there are going to be defense mechanisms on the wormhole.
Honestly, I don’t see Odo changing the Founders much if anything they will get even more suspicious. Odo has an innate need for order. Odo knows all the tricks of the solids..he was a security Chief for many years. I don’t see the JemHadar changing or the Vorta for that matter!
I kind of envisioned the wormhole eventually surrounded by dozens upon dozens of planetary type defense platforms, with very tightly controlled navigation channels for incoming/departing ships.
The change in Starfleet and Federation culture towards a more militaristic and xenophobic posture was something I really wished had been explored in the Picard series. I could see this being a big part of his disillusionment. He's an explorer first and foremost, and Starfleet doesn't want that anymore. They want soldiers who shoot first and open hailing frequencies later. And the next unexplored star system is no longer a thing of wonder, but of menace.
Another great video by lore Reloaded. Just some observations, 3.17-3.27 ('Hm this blue liquid you call paint thinner really curls my eyebrows1') 3.48-3.52 ("where the heck are the toilets I need to relieve myself') 4.47-4.52 ("Oops,sorry I thought that turned on the lights") 4.55-5.25 ("Do you know how long it took to make that coat? and you don't like the color?") 8.25- 8.37 ( Much better those transporters are so useful just hope it was into a toilet!!") 8.39-8.42 " captain Kirk "OMG. that is our future? " Mr Sulu "I don't believe it captain!" Captain Kirk "that no one could possibly replace me ?" Mr Sulu "No captain that anyone in any star Trek timeline could overact more than you!!" A fantastic Star Trek video as always by Lore reloaded.
The Alpha Quadrant Alliance shouldn’t have let Odo (along with the cure to the disease he carried) return to the Great Link until the Dominion agreed to surrender all forces, equipment, and territories. CHANGE MY MIND.🤨☕️#2
Voyager brought back super speed warp, Borg busting weapons, and Batmobile Armor. The Federation became so OP that the following shows and movies (until Picard, finally) had to be either set in the past or a rebooted universe... because there wouldn't be much tension or conflict to challenge The Federation. The Dominion wouldn't have a chance if they tried to come back through and give it another go.
I figure Zek, Moogie, & Quark would be his eyes & ears & keep him safe. Plus he could hire that one Ferengan that values fighting over profit to be his Chief of Security. Also, given how unrestricted, greedy, & disproportionately wealthy the top Ferengi are, I imagine Rom would have the support of the 99.999999999% 😄
I think Federation's ideology about Starfleet nearly cost them the war with an attitude that they are not a military organization, but only an exploration organization, nearly cost them the war. It's a form of idealism carried so far it became a pathology and I suspect, left to its own devices, the post-war Starfleet would eventually go back to its pacifist ways just as the post-TOS Starfleet did after the Khitomer treaty was signed with the Klingons. What's so ridiculous is that there's really an easy solution to this cultural problem within the Federation government's institutions. Starfleet wants to explore. Fine, Starfleet can be explorers with no military / defense function at all...but to prevent another Dominion War or Borg incursion type situation, a new institution is needed, one dedicated solely to the physical defense and maintaining the territorial and political sovereignty of the United Federation of Planets from external threats. Such an organization definitely IS a military organization, and it's mission would not be to explore, but to train for war and then win wars if they occur. Such an organization might be called something simple, like the Navy, or you might want a less nautical/space specific moniker on it since it's likely this military institution would also be responsible for combat on the ground as well. This is an entirely reasonable solution to this institutional cultural problem and avoids the failures that nearly lead to the destruction of the Federation in the first place. Contrary to the extreme view against militarization, there's no reason to believe that creation of such an organization would constitute an increased coup threat against the duly elected government, either. While there would be a threat of that happening, that threat already exists with Starfleet, and indeed such things have been attempted. I would submit, that creating a Navy would, in fact, reduce the overall threat of a coup, because as of now if a rogue group in Starfleet attempts a coup, there is no other armed uniformed service to stop them. If the Federation maintained Starfleet and a Navy, either one could oppose the other by force if one went rogue.
Which BTW is what countries do in modern times -- for example in the USA you have three seafaring uniformed services (a) a warfighting Navy (b) a Coast Guard for rescue/shipping protection/law enforcement (plus join in with the Navy if there's fighting happening) and (c) the NOAA Corps to man science/research vessels and aircraft. The problem in OUR IRL timeline is of coursw that the warfighters will suck up all the budget, but the Federation is supposed to have overcome *that* excuse.
One thing that always kind of bugged me was that the treaty stipulated a complete withdrawal of all Dominion forces from the Quadrant. However, the Breen weren't just allies, they were formal members of the Dominion. How does this order affect them? Are their forces reduced to a level needed for policing actions? Also, I can definitely see why the Treaty would force Bajor to remain independent. If they joined the Federation, that would give the Federation absolute cotrol over one end of the Wormhole, and by extension, indirect control over all future dealings with the Dominion. All trade would have to go through them, all diplomatic actions, any kind of exploratory missions. All through them. Keeping Bajor independent and (presumably) neutral, gives all major powers a hypothetical fair shot at future dealings.
This is exactly what a new ST series should have explored. The Dominion War aftermath. It keep DS9 and Bajor relevant and we get to see a part of the galaxy we've seen very little of.
I think DS9 is probably a far more realistic version of Star Trek. It doesn't matter how peaceful, tolerant, or good willed a species could be, the fact is there could be other species out there who could want nothing more than the domination or even the wholesale annihilation of other species (such as the Dominion or the Borg). No amount of "we come in peace" could change the minds of any species like that.
The Breen were just told to go home. They didn't get any real territory gain, they only lost ships, and they had no true stake in the conflict other than to thumb their nose at the Federation, and because the Dominion asked them nicely to help. Of all the groups, the Breen got off basically scot-free. All they lost were ships and crews, which apparently they had in plentiful supply wherever their star-nation is. I'd love to see the Breen take a slightly more forward, but less confrontational aspect in something like say, Picard or any future series. Not neccessarily a threat, but definitely a looming, sleeping power that could be roused into action if provoked. (which is why everyone treats the Breen nicely on the street.)
I think it's pretty much stated in DS9 that the female changeling only surrendered because Odo linked with her and told her he could cure the rest of the great link. It's pretty clear that she would've been willing to fight until the end if there wasn't a cure for the sickness.
5:25 In the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Strange Bedfellows," it is revealed that the Breen homeworld was heavily bombarded by the Dominion and Cardassian forces during the final days of the war. The Breen government subsequently signed a non-aggression treaty with the Federation and withdrew from the conflict. The fate of the Breen after the Dominion War is not explicitly stated in the Star Trek canon. However, it is implied that they suffered significant losses during the war and their military capabilities were greatly diminished. It is possible that the Breen suffered significant societal and economic disruption as a result of the war and its aftermath, but no further details are provided in the canon.
In any treaty to end a War, there must be provisions to punish the aggressor. Klingon's keeping the territory they won early on might seem unfair, but Cardassia had to lose those regions...to give them back would be a symbolic reward. There has to be a stern message to those who partnered with the Founders; you betrayed an entire quadrant, you are not getting anything of value out of this. All stick, no carrot.
To get that straight... Klingons STARTING a War against the Cardis, anexxing a Ton of Territory and they should keep them becouse giving it back to the rightful Owner would be somehow a Reward for Cardassias "Agression"? wtf are you smoking Dude? Nevermind the insanity of the Idea that the "Agressor"(weird how the winning Faction is never called Agressor) has to be crippeled in its teritorial Integrity
Basically to sum up, by the time of Star Trek Picard, the Romulans are splintered and its intelligence network was a shadow of what it was in TNG and DS9. The Klingons are still rebuilding, and are likely going through a period of reform, (also they are still Federation allies), the Cardassians are in pieces, and so have probably turned to the federation for help, not joining the federation, but becoming allies, just like the Klingons. And so this basically leaves the Federation which thanks to voyager is the most advanced, most powerful entity in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
I like the point you made about how the Dominion War kind of just made the Federation stronger. It's a lot like what Dukat was saying about how the occupation strengthened Bajor. I'm not 100% certain if Dukat was right when he said that (I'm not sure about anything Dukat says) but it definitely seems to ring true re: the Dominion and the Federation.
And yet, by the start of Picard, the Federation has appeared to withdraw from a lot of intergalactic politics. Obviously, the events of the destruction of Romulus played a large part in that but it is also reasonable to believe that while the Federation came out stronger from a military standpoint, there would be a strong anti-war isolationist movement as well. The numbers of dead, not just from the Federation but in the galaxy were likely in the billions (you may have covered that in a previous video? Can't remember). So, that coupled with the synthetic rebellion really caused a significant change in the Federations attitude. It will be interesting to see how the Klingons have responded, although I doubt Picard goes into that much. It seems much smaller scale than that. It could change in future seasons, I suppose. The show does seem interested in, at least briefly, providing some explanation of the state of the galaxy post Voyager. They aren't in a hurry to do it or even change it, but they have given some "This is how this is now" type things.
@@Bitchslapper316 Withdraw might be too strong of a word, but it seems they became much more internally focused, with stopping of helping the Romulans. Beyond that, there really hasn't been much information provided. We have no idea what the status is with the Klingons, Cardassians, or even if the Bajorans joined the Federation. It's hard to say, because it would appear that certain underworld elements have a higher prominance, but I would argue that it always existed and we are just now seeing it put into the forefront. Previous series focused on the military/government fleets, but not much beyond that. Picard gives us a much better idea of what life in the Federation is probably like for people not living on Earth.
In the aftermath of the Dominion war, at least in the fiction I've always written for myself, I've thought of the Cardassian union as having by necessity become a protectorate of the Federation. Much like what happened to Japan after the Second World War - that the United States took Japan under its wing (so to speak) in order to prevent other regional powers from choosing after the war to settle scores with a weakened and devastated Japan (for example the Philippines and China which had been brutally occupied by Japan), as well as the US working to make sure that Japanese society comes back together in such a way that it is economically and not militarily driven resulting in the Japanese economic powerhouse with a small protectionist military (if you can even call it that) that Japan is today. Getting back to the Cardassian union, I've always envisioned that the Cardassian occupation and control of Bajor was just one of many planets in many systems that Cardassia controlled whether the controlled be sympathizers (I always assumed that even Cardassia had allies) to just those that were occupied and controlled by force (you think Bajor was the only occupied planet with a resistance?). As the war turns for the Dominion powers and the Cardassians become more and more battered ultimately their military becoming shattered and those in that military being killed by the thousands, now those occupied worlds like Bajor are suddenly free and dare I say some are ready to settle some scores. Not wanting regional wars to breakout, wars that have a habit of spilling over and pulling in larger powers, Starfleet on behalf of the Federation worked throughout Cardassian space sending the message that they (Starfleet) sympathizes with your grievances about Cardassia but you won't be allowed to settle scores violently and also sending messages to the remnants of the Cardassian military and/or government what they'd be allowed to keep and give up (occupied worlds and other stuff by negotiation or just having it taken away from them like a toy taken from an unruly child) . The Federation itself worked to assist Cardassia with rebuilding so that while no Cardassia won't ever likely be a completely democratic republic, they are something approaching it where the military decidedly is not in charge. We've seen glimpses of Cardassians who don't sympathies with Cardassian military being in charge (TNG episodes Below Decks and the Wounded) and having witnessed the devastation that had been wrought upon them by the military's desire for territory and domination, now with Federation backing and Starfleet's protection it would've been their chance to remake Cardassian government.
I think it's more appropriate to think of postwar Cardassia as post-WWII Germany. It had lost significant territory forever and was occupied by three different powers (remember Martok and Sisko drinking blood wine on Cardassia Prime--and I'm sure Romulans were around as well). As with Germany, Cardassia would have probably become an ideological battleground between those powers, though the Federation would have been the strongest one. The Federation would have supported democratization whereas the Romulans would have done their usual scheming to support terrorists and militant Cardassians. The Klingons would have done whatever to retain their captured Cardassian planets and to keep the remaining part of Cardassian space from getting strong enough to be a threat again.
I would have preferred that they let the founders die. It would have been anti-star trek and upset the purest amongst us fans, but it would have been a much more dramatic and realistic end. Maybe something along the line of Garak killing Odo, after the female changeling was healed by ODO and signed off on the surrender, before he could reach the Great Link. Sounds harsh and pretty awful, but when you consider the contempt that the Changelings have for solids and their ability to build ships and to produce soldiers its the most logical course of action. It may take them 10 years or 100, but its not hard to imagine them re-building their fleets and storming through the Alpha Quadrant at a later date. Sometime way later when the Alpha Quadrant thinks of the Dominion War much like we today think of WW1. Not really understanding just how destructive and awful it was to live through. Additionally, we never really know why the female Changeling agreed to surrender after being healed, did she just want Odo to have the chance to heal the great link or was she truly changed on her thought process on solids. Knowing that they Starfleet had the power to destroy the Great Link and decided not too may have altered all Changelings perspective. Although I doubt that, knowing that someone has the power to wipe you out makes them the greatest threat of all. Hopefully a book or maybe even some later set of movies will deal with subject. They'll be back for sure, maybe I'm a Changeling writing this post, all you solids will pay for your crimes!!
It could be a really interesting series to see the Federation post-war. Some people fear-mongering and desperately trying to continue arming and increasing defenses for the sake of protection, while others strive to return to the Federation's previous style. It could result in civil war, a coup, splinter groups like the Maquis, etc. The Federation would be trying desperately to keep providing aid to those who were harmed by the war (both internally and outside), dealing with limited supplies and large distances, as well as internal conflict. And how would this impact the introduction of new members, as well as the continuation of older ones? Some races may have thought the actions the Federation took during the war were unacceptable and want to leave. Some new members may feel similarly and look at the Federation as a warfare-encouraging state rather than one of peaceful exploration, and not want to join. So many interesting possibilities.
Hah! I see that comment at the end of the video! I'm glad. Honestly, way too many crazy people on the internet these days. As for the subject itself; VERY interesting analysis on the Klingons. It also wouldn't surprise me if the way Starfleet is in Picard is heavily drawn upon DS9's post-Dominion War.
I would be interested to see a group outside the Milky Way become a threat. Not another realm, or dimension. Star Trek is much like Star Wars in that they keep all the drama in one galaxy. Imagine a threat that attacks all known powers inside the galaxy. The Federation, Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Theolians, Dominion, Borg, Sullivan, Q. Imagine a threat that requires all these groups having to face a threat outside any known . Yes even the Q.
Nah, that would be beyond boring, any species that's powerful enough to fight against the Q could simply make every other species in the galaxy cease to exist with a snap of their fingers
Once Odo joined with the great link everything would have changed with the Dominion, with the great link all of the founders would have a new understanding of the people of the alpha quadrant and the Dominion would have become a peaceful group
Lol, are you insane? I think they founders are now more dangerous than ever. With Odo’s input they may no longer be hell bent on conquest but I’m sure their security will be increased due to Odo’s insurance.
@@JemHadar422 Even worse, they develop a passion for Odo's 'by the book' approach to bureaucratic enforcement.. They re-infiltrate the Alpha Quadrant as zoning officers and traffic enforcers ... I.e. You're hovercar is parked 6 centimeters over the line, here's a ticket. The Quadrant is brought to its knees via cumulative petty fines.
Even if the Romulans has 3,000 ships all capable of moving 10000 people at a time (which seems unlikely as star trek doesn't know how to scale) it would still take over 166 trips to evacuate 6 billion people from the entire planet. Going on Voyagers sail speed, best these ships could do would be 3 lights years per day. Since it wasn't Romulas that exploded, be safe to say they would need an m class world at least 10.5 light years away to be somewhat safe. So each round trip would take 7 days... Thats 3,486 days or 9.5 years to evacuate Romulas. I have tried to give all these numbers the benefit of the doubt to the in Universe lore. They would need the federations help to evacuate, however based on the maps that are now cannon, even if the federation left from Earth right away it would take 5 years to get there to help 😅. Cannon in Star Trek is such an absolute mess!
Feriginar being a free market isn’t true. It is referred to as so and outsides depict it as but it’s society is bound by strict bureaucratic and government control over individuals both commercially and socially. It fines women and their families for breaking their traditions. It can unilaterally black-list citizens from trade for personal disputes between members without any appeal or arbitration. And when a citizen has to interact with their government momentum is only feasible due to bribery and graft. The grand nagus is essentially a dictator, with complete control over the state and can make any decree with only token possibility of balance of power by a nebulous second governing body. But compared to all the rest of the universe, it has the freest markets, and what a condemnation of the Star Trek future that is.
Well, the Starfleet after the Dominion War will be like the modern US Navy. It does have oceanographic ships. Even the submarines are sometimes used to map the Arctic Ocean. However, the first duty is still a military organization. I think some of the episodes mentioned done have civilian science ships like those in the real National Ocengraphic Ocean Organization, which is a civilian ocean research organization in the US government. But, US Navy ships sometimes do get involved due to their specialized features just like how starfleet ships are sometimes used in civilian scientific research.
You know, I am surprised that everyone makes one major assumption despite the source of information being sketching at best, that the Dominion is the only major power in the Gamma Quadrant. Or even control more than half its territory. We all assume that they are the only power in the Gamma Quadrant because representatives in the Dominion says they are, but considering they lie about their age, then the amount of territory they control could also be a lie. Especially since I doubt they will tell potential enemies of a potentially powerful ally waiting in the wings.
We know from the Star Trek Maps that the dominion control a territory roughly the same size as the Federation but have about 3 times the number of ships. The Federation with it's currently fleet could crush any Alpha Quadrant powers. There are definelty strong powers within the Gamma Quadrant though but the Founders focus on the Alpha Quadrant suggests there is nothing like the situation where there are equally strong powers, otherwise the Dominion wouldn't have cared.
@@manticore4952 I disagree on several categories: 1) I wonder how big Dominion Space is when you consider how slow Dominion ships are. Yes, I know that some technical manuals claim Dominion ships can achieve Warp 9.5. But DS9 has stated a Klingon Bird of Prey can outrun a Jem'haddar fighter at Warp, and they can barely achieve Warp 9. In fact, the Jem'haddar could barely catch up when the Klingons ships were damaged and reached speeds of Warp 7.9. Now, if it can take a ship half a century to cross an entire quadrant at Warp 9.975, at Warp 8, it would take centuries. This means either the Dominion is a centralized power that is as big or smaller than the Federation, considered more than half the Alpha and Beta is unknown to the Federation. Or it's decentralized as it spread across the entire Quadrant since it would take decades to reinforce its territory. I think it's more the former than later. 2) The Dominion fleet seems to operate in a Just in Time mentality, which means they only make and operate the numbers they feel necessary. Which explains why they went so hard to disrupt the Alpha Quadrant powers instead of plopping a 3,000 size fleet at the mouth of the Wormhole Day 1 of First Contract. Combined with the fact they have a clone army and can build fleets in weeks, the reason they waited 2 years before sending an invasion force is less due to having a friendly power to establish a forward base and more that it took that long to build a large enough force they feel comfortable to attack the Alpha Quadrant and keep their holdings and local powers in check. 3) We know very little of the inner working of the Dominion and how much focus was just on the Federation. They may have only sent the resources they could have to afford to send, not their full attention. For a dozen to a hundred Changelings out of the millions that they could have sent sounds like a small force. 4) I hate to say it, but while technical manuals and star charts seem like good sources of information, they are not cannon. Writers can, and have made said material invalid on a yearly basis before new Star Trek and technical manuals can vary in data. For example, the Sovereign was stated to have a maximum Warp Speed of 8, 9.5, 9.85, and 9.995 by various manuals. They could also simply say, "This is what Starfleet Intelligence thinks this is how big Dominion Space is," only to find out they are wrong.
The Star Trek armada mod is very interesting! It shows that the dominion took over the federation in 25/26th century and returned to the alpha quadrant with brig transwarp tech
It blows my mind when people refer to the ferengi alliance as a free market or pure capitalistic society. Its a freaking patriarchal theocracy where material wealth is the God. A true free market wouldn’t bar you from trade if you’re a woman. It wouldn’t care. If you have something of value, you are a participant.
The Ferengi were intended originally as a "commentary" on capitalism...and were meant to be the new "main bad guys" of the 24th century. The clownishness of both the concept and their appearance became evident pretty quickly. Later, the extremely frightening (and thus, effective) bad guys arrived in the "collectivist" Borg. 😁
One key thing you forgot to mention. General Martok was the one who pushed for war with the Cardassians, who by the way was a Founder. So the Klingon are not completely the bad guys during the war. Even if it was an agenda, it was still the founders idea to weaken the alpha quadrant. They also sent baby changlings into the quadrant to learn how to understand other beings. Or scout to take over more galactic territory.
The Klingons couldnt keep whatever territory they claimed, the war set them back by 20 years. The Ferengi would likley gain more influence and power due to their technology being on a simialr level to the Federations and the fact they stayed out of the fighting. What is known is that the Klingons, Cardassians and the Dominion fared the worst, the Dominion lost thousands of ships, more so than anyone. They couldnt use the wormhole during the war because of two reasons, the prophets interfernce and the Federation armada and DS9 itself defending it, which caused them to have to build and produce ketty white and ships in the Alpha Quadrant. This wouldnt change, the wormhole would still be defended post war. Odo's promise to the lead founder ensured that the Dominions poloices would change and become more open to cooperation in the future. The Breen were likley sanctioned, occupied and not allowed to create weapons of war, good fuck em. The two major powers psot war were the Federation and the Romulans, the Romulans because the entered the war late and the Federation because of how large it's influence is. But I think the Federation has taken a more militaristic doctrine post war, Riker in command of the Cheng Wei says that is it the most powerful ship ever created by the Federation of which there are hundreds built. It seems that the Federation is trying to learn from it's mistakes of the past.
I always assumed that the Ferengi Alliance would go back to its original ways shortly after Rom taking office. The Nagus made all those sweeping changes but he had the financial reputation to carry it out and Q & R’s mom’s (I can’t remember the characters name) business smarts to back him up. Now you have sweet hearted Rom with Brunt to watch his back... To quote Quark “I give it six months.” Some traditionalist would out maneuver the new regime (probably with Brunt selling out everybody on all sides) and dump all the reforms. Just my opinion.
With a stronger UFP, I think the Dominion War would've been followed by a cold war between the Breen Confederacy and the UFP. The Dominion-Breen alliance is what led to an attack on Earth, and Federation citizens would remember that. Breen culture is militaristic, and the post-war isolation would feed a lot of defensive posturing.
I like to think that the Dominion reacted to losing its fleet in the wormhole by building and dispatching a host of generation ships to resume the war 100 years hence.
I have always wondered about the politics in the gamma quadrant. We know the dominion controls most of the space around the wormhole and a big chunk of the quadrant but surly there are other rival factions in the quadrant we haven't seen yet. Who knows, maybe they are engaged in conflicts on all their borders.
Yeah , but for how long though ? once word gets around that they're mighty Juggernaut of a society was defeated by a bunch of near rag-tag ' ( community ) neighboring powers ' in a far inferior part of the Galaxy " they may start to see cracks in their invincibility as a Galactic Super-power ' js !
@@Bitchslapper316 The Founders mindset was always that (The Solids ) Were a violent , uncivilized race of bigotry and hatred ' towards anyone or anything other to themselves , so in they're minds and thoughts they saw them and they're tech as Inferior " Some of their Technology was superior to the Federation , but in that same standing some of the Federation's Technology was Better , say for instance Starfleets ships were More maneuverable and quite faster ' than Dominion Warships ' and the fact that the Dominion would rather Ram they're ships and or lose it in some other fashion , than Repair it or retro-fit them is a case for that ' but hey they mass produce everything anyway So ... js '🙄.
Don't forget the events in the novel series. One of the reasons that the Dominions didn't aggressively went into the Federation territory was because of the virogen that was affecting the Federation worlds in the ShatnerVerse Avenger novel. The Dominion didn't want to get infected themselves from conquering quarantined worlds so they were just satisfied in wiping out Starfleet. Just after the war, there was the Genesis Wave that hit the sectors near the Romulan&Klingon&Federation Neutral Zone borders. This crippled the Romulans from taking over the worlds that they gained as they were too busy evacuating their own worlds from the Genesis Wave. The Romulans were also busy against their former allied Vulcan clans that left with them when they left Vulcan thousands of yrs ago. Those former Vulcans are like the Remans who are pissed at the Romulans for exploiting&then abandoning them. They had started destroying entire planets at the Delta Quadrant borders of the Romulan Empire. This likely inspired the Remans to try the coup that wiped out the Romulan Senate. Then there's the Hand of Destiny novels with the Klingons as Martok's Ex-Wife was experimenting on turning her troops into Hurq. She tried to take over the Klingon empire after Martok returns at the end of the Dominion War. Finally the Borg's too busy with the Undine(Species 8472)&Unimatrix Zero.
Except for the fact that the Treaty of Bajor made the gains by the Klingon permanent, prior to the treaty that conflict was unresolved, and it wasn't separate, it was how the Dominion War started
I loved the ferengi in ST DS9. They are greedy, selfish, cowards but true cunning businessman. I liked the episode when the Nagus liberate the females and let them earn money. It was logicaly explained why and how this was good for all ferengi to earn more profit. BUT in the last few episodes I feeled bad for the old Nagus. He was manipulated by Quark's mom to do questionable and unprofitable progressions. In this profit focus society this is very bad and then give the leadership to Rom. I liked Rom, but he did nothing to be a real ferengi Nagus and lead his people to more profit. Nice video, thank you!
I've just seen this video. The female changing would have feared the federation invading domion space due to their technological advancement. The dominion were clearly more advanced when they encountered the federation. The federation were on par with them after 4 years. The dominion saw the Sovereign class and defiant class being mass produced, which were aimed more towards war and replacing the older golden age classes of ships. Piccard season 3 ( I know this video is older) showed much faster and advanced ships. They even made the warp effects different from the Titan to the Enterprise D to show the difference. The Federation most probably was more advanced than the dominion during this time, which the female changeling forsaw. I'm only recognising Picard season 3 to this timeline. Picard S1-S2, Discovery, especially after season 3 and Strange New Worlds are part of a different time line which I like to call the Kurtsman Timeline lol.
I think the Dominion was never worried about the Alpha Quadrant as a military threat, instead they were worried about the cultural influence they could have in the Gamma Quadrant. The Dominion kept it’s members controlled with fear, intimidation, and gratuitous violence. But if enough Dominion member species got the idea to rise up together, possibly supported by resources gained in trade from the Alpha Quadrant, then the Founder’s control would be seriously threatened. And the Founders know this. The Dominion is huge, no matter how many Jem Hadar they produced, without the infrastructure and resources from their member worlds supporting them they could never retain control. Not to mention there may be other threats to the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant that we don’t know about. The Hurq for instance, maybe even Borg incursions.
Considering the President of the Federation in the 32nd century is part Cardassian, I’d say the Cardassian joined the Federation and began intermingling with other species
The worm hole aliens didn't massacre the first Dominion fleet. In star trek online it shows that they simply delayed their arrival until after the war.
i hate that in ST Picard they just never said a word about the war. I mean, it was the biggest war starfleet ever fought and even after 20 years have past - there should be still a lot of problems and planets in ruins because there where billions of deaths. Even Starfleet had changed and no one ever lost a word about this new militaristic way. There is a lot of context they have to explain in Season 2. Just look at the federation fleet at the end of Picard. Pure Military Vessels with just three types of ships - how a war fleet would act.
The Dominion War did to the Federation what the World Wars did to the United States: it forced an idealistic, young, and largely demilitarized nation to develop and flex its martial muscles. In doing so, that idealist nation died (or grew up/became disillusioned, depending on how you look at it), and was replaced by a thoroughly militarized society and economy.
I'd really like to see a Star Trek Series that's written by the writers of TNG and DS9 (No Discovery or Picard writers) set two hundred years after the Dominion War that hints heavily at what happened to the Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta quadrant powers and civilizations. Perhaps a series in which Benjamin Sisko has finally been released by the Prophet's and they slowed his aging process, but didn't stop it completely.
So we had the Earth/Romulan War, The first war with the Klingons around the TOS timeframe, The Second Klingon War during DS9, The Borg, but it took the Dominion to finally make the Federation see the light about galactic threats enough to create a true defense force?
I mean the Klingons shed some much blood and materials for the war, possibly even more than starfleet, so them getting something for that commitment seems reasonable, even if amoral.
Than He's no longer the Emmissary of the Prophets by now, but the Guardian of Bajor. Than in Bajoran Religion, He's a god by now and a true one as he really exist. Interesting thought. That would make Kira Nerris the one Bajoran, which has the closest relation to that actual God.... I see a spiritual career for her.
Thank god for Lower Decks showing that at least some parts of Starfleet still focus on exploration and first and second contact missions rather than purely military operations.
8:15, Starfleet’s command structure being replaced by warhawks due to death. Seeing how the entire timeline (STD, TOS, TAS, etc) played out... Does Kirk’s generation of warhawks begin the golden age of discovery?
I would pay so much money just to see Garak and Sloan have a conversation
too bad that can not happen sloan died.
@@thewewguy8t88 I think it's too comvient that Sloan was armed with the info and only the info
@@thewewguy8t88 maybe a clone of sloan died 🤔
@@stevenyia2778 A Sloan Clone?
@@billybegood466 🤷♂️😏
Another turning point in star trek universe was return of Voyager to alpha quadrant. They had hyper drive, ablated armor, and all kinds of amazing technology. A single ship defeated the Borg base with thousands of cubes.
I'm not sure you understand the term ablated, it means to remove, usually surgically such as dead tissue.
@@nicktombs1876 in regards to ablative armor. We're the armor absorbs energy by destroying itself with the force bring projected outwards.
@@nicktombs1876
It’s supposed to be “ablative,” not “ablated.”
And with time dilation it could be on the same time scale
they already had ablative armor
The death of so many Klingons might have a similar effect as the Black Death did on Europe. It might shake up the feudal system so much that the Klingons end up having to drastically increase pay for individuals to make up for the lack of a workforce, which could in turn kickstart a Klingon renaissance and eventually an enlightenment.
Or, they could resort to initiating slavery within the Empire.
Better then that even, at least in my opinion.
One of the challenges with with a fighting and honor based society is that without real combat it can become unmoored from any behavior that actually helps the state survive where honor ends up being more about dick measuring contests and honor duels. The Dominion war ensured that every Klingon has a real record to fall back upon for a generation.
On top of that this may be the first time in centuries where the Klingons have been given a really good reason to respect war. Another challenge of a fighting and honor based society is that you have a bunch of people over eager to start fights underestimating and misunderstanding how dangerous war is, while the Klingons payed a high price in blood and treasure for this lesson it's precisely that price that might make them a bit more sober about the prospect of war.
Finally the war really ended on a high note for the Klingons where they were the only ones able to meaningfully engage the Breen not because the Klingons were superior warriors or anything but because of a quirk of technology giving them ample reason to elevate the positions of engineers and scientists in the empire.
Combined with the fact that Martok is also pretty good leadership material and the Klingons have a chance to reinvent and revitalize themselves in a pretty huge way.
@@AmurTiger remember, Klingons WANT to die in battle. Peace and Klingons, can’t work.
I read somewhere that the klingons eventually joined the federation because of the losses they suffered.
They didnt just loose people. They lost ships, bases etc. So it makes sense
@@jamesbizs who says the Federation doesnt go to war?
“These are Romulans-
They are without Honour.”
-Worf,
Son of Mogh
Allowing the Klingons to keep their gains _does make sense:_ It will encourage the Cardassians to join the Federation and give Martok the political capital to undertake massive reforms of the Klingon Government.
Martok is the first Chancellor in living memory to actually gain *and keep* substantial territory for the Empire via conquest. Along with his personal popularly and unquestioned honour, he will have the _political muscle to push through any measures to stem corruption_ - and the corrupt won't be able to push back.
Ordinarily just trying to implement any anti corruption measures in the Empire would be doomed to failure.
So by the end of Martok's reign the Klingon Empire is possibly the Klingon parliamentary democracy.
At the very least it's not the unstable Byzantine cesspool that was the dangerous status quo.
As for the Cardassians, having the Klingons as neighbours would encourage them to go all in in the Federation, out of fear, as the Federation are the only ones who's territory the Klingons would respect.
Or the writers just forgot about the Klingons War.
I believe the Klingons also sustained disproportionate losses during the wars as well... holding off the Breen being one point and I believe it had been mentioned a large amount of the ground forces for the invasion of several Dominion worlds were also Klingon. Maybe it had been decided that the cost to the Empire required some additional consideration.
Since there are clear parallels between the Dominion War and the Second World War, that tracks. The major powers who gained from that were the Americans (Federation) and Soviet Union (Klingons) - despite the fact that one of the opening acts of the Second World War was the Nazi Soviet Pact, that pretty much guaranteed a war in the West. It's rewarding aggression - but it's also Realpolitik.
@@johnpotts8308 I was thinking that too. How the soviets charged into poland for a land grab that kicked off the war, kinda mirrors the klingons here. Then the fact that they got to keep eastern europe after the war..yeah lol.
@@mikesmith3588 the klingons did take disproportionate losses, because they not only started fighting the cardassians and the dominion before the federation and the romulans joined it, the klingons have a warrior culture built on honor being won in battle and as such they threw more of their troops into difficult combat situations to prove their honor, strength, cunning, and tenacity. It also didn't help that Gowron was throwing troops away to make Martok look like a fool, coward, and loser in a stupid political move to solidify his position as chancellor before Worf killed him.
@@johnpotts8308 I always saw the Romulans as the Soviets in the dominion war, they're an ally of necessity and afterward they're going to move right back to being rivals.
When you get to keep Alsace-Lorraine (Klingon Style).
This explains why Starfleet is so much different in Picard. A lot of the command structure by then is people who joined Starfleet during the Dominion War, rather than those who joined as explorers. These are the people who were young officers, even cadets, and battled the Dominion. That will have affected their outlook and their attitudes for their entire careers.
It begs the question why they hate Romulans as though they had fought them rather then as an ally in need, given they'd only know the Romulans as an ally and member in waiting.
Picard also takes place in an alternate universe, similiar to the TNG era but different.
You just put more though to Picard-series than it's writers ever did.
@@yellowpete79 No it doesn't. It's the Prime Timeline, just like all the other shows, wether you like it or not.
@JRPGFan20000 Bold of you to assume that Harry wouldn't retire as an ensign on his 100th birthday.
I still can't believe no one has ever done a series post dominion war, ds9 had such a massive impact on the quadrant as whole but for some reason cbs is still inisitent on doing prequals and the picard series made no mention of it at all. i mean cmon.
Give it time, Picard was a character show. Not a traditional trek type show.
The thing is, the real world has moved on by decades, if you want to revisit the time right admfter these events you cant use the original cast or characters. You would have to establish a whole new cast and setting while somehow still making a meaningful connection to those events.
We more than likely will see a show eventually set either 20 ish years after the war in a similar timeframe as Picard or they may do the TNG thing and move several decades forward to take advantage of open opportunities for storytelling.
@@DrewLSsix this is true but i mean the mars attacks were an event just as impactful as the dominion war and the show seemed to not shut up about it.yet there is not one mention of the dominion war. i mean heck they make mention of locutus a few times. to be fair as well one other factor is the enterprise did not fight in the dominion war.(discovery may have slightly ironically given an in universe reason as to why though as I am assumeing its the same reason the enterprise did not fight during the klingon war in discovery)
@@DrewLSsix Meh either way Picard is a trash show and isn't true cannon.
While we don't have a series have been some good books that cover it. I recommend the enigma tales
Picard is post-Dominion War.
Discovery Season 3+ Is post-Dominion War.
I Severely Disagree on the Federation Post Dominion War as being more like the Original series' Federation, for several reasons, but to simplify: TOS the Federation we see are the armed explorers of the Wild West, TNG Explorers who are most comparable to scientific explorers of the twentieth century, before 9 11 and the severe upswing in terrorism into the public eye and consciousness. Then the Federations' 9 11 occurs, the battle of Wolf359, the fear of the Borg and an actual war against the Dominion replacing the "War on Terror".
The Federation post Dominion war didn't go back to the optimistic but armed Wild West explorers of TOS, but to the traumatized soldiers trying to pretend everything's fine when they step out their door.
I would say a better comparison would be that post dominion war federation was more like that from Wrath of Khan on. They clearly seemed to be a military first organization that did exploration when things permitted but were always ready for war with the Klingon's.
Rumred I still disagree, mainly because that era was a culture formed in preparation for a war that ultimately never materialized. The Dominion war is the first war the Federation fought since, well, since the war with the Romulan before the Federation even formed officially. The era Post Dominion was shaped by veterans, survivors, and fresh cadets. It’s a very different culture then one preparing for war.
@@QuestionDeca True but in terms of how starfleet was organized and how it had more of a military first attitude the two or very similar. Also the federation I thought did fight some small wars with the klingons ( before the discovery retcon) but never had the big one but they were worried about it.
@@Whatatwist2009 there was the Four Years War with the Klingons. Mostly with the Klingons though it was a Cold War as you are pointing out where they pulled shit like Sherman's Planet on each other.
All that you just said helps explain Picard resigning from Starfleet over the evacuation mission. It is a sign that those traumatized soldiers lost their way.
But, one thing you did not mention is that state is mostly because the Hero Of The Dominion War itself was not with them after the war for long; that Hero was Captain Sisko.
They all looked up to him, not to Picard, and it shows. Had he stayed in Starfleet, the outcome of Starfleet post the war would be different.
The Romulan Supernova reflected a major challenge that Starfleet was not prepared for. Only Picard was, because at its heart, it required Starfleet personnel of his time to be handled well enough, not battle hardened soldiers, and we saw hints of that sentiment in The Undiscovered Country with the Praxus Incident and some in Starfleet rebelling against the efforts.
The power of Starfleet kind of lead to the Picard series concept of it not being StarFleet but a rag-tag crew, since StarFleet is so powerful - you mess with StarFleet and you're facing overwhelming force. So logically what is the status of StarFleet and the Federation that's not mentioned in Picard?
Well a lot of humans in StarFleet would have been killed during the war as they made up the bulk of the pre war numbers, so there may well be a lot more Aliens in StarFleet among the newer recruits, leading to more diversity of abilities.
And as for those recruits…
Ferengi females would be joining in numbers, because they still have to deal with the legacy of misogyny and lack of business capital on Ferenginar. So the non sexist Federation would seem like a good option, and they bring a lot of advantages including a different cynical perspective (and immunity to be telepathy, which can be useful) and a talent for logistics and bargaining - a few would've been useful on Voyager, they cover a skillset that most 24th century humans lack
The Cardassians will join, because that's the best option for protection. Bajor will be back inside the Federation soon enough (they were independent just as a Dominion War manoeuvre, and it just wasn't a priority to fix that during the last days), so it's far better to be inside as well so the Bajorians can't lobby for punitive damages.
Any other local power (Klingons…) will subjugate them, they need to be part of the Federation for their own survival - besides all the vehement militaristic Cardassians were standing next to Jem'Hadar when the hammer came down. And StarFleet could have just sat back and let Cardassia Prime get demolished, that they didn't would have gone over well with the populace.
Having Cardassians and Ferengi on your crew will mean that StarFleet ships crews won't be naive idealists suckers.
The big question [and one worthy of a video] is what happened with Betazed?
The planet was occupied during the war and some nasty stuff went on. Did it affect the attitude of the population, are they more militant… and most importantly will they be joining StarFleet in any numbers?
There abilities are such a game changer that the only way a mole could survive in StarFleet is if they were a skilled telepath themself and could keep up a mind shield.
As for the Klingons, they fought side by side with Humans, and Humans, being Human, there will be a _lot_ of Klingon/Human hybrids that are just reaching adulthood now.
And the Klingons will respect Federation territory, so it's another reason for other species to sign on with the Federation - it automatically takes you off the Klingons dance card.
Assume that as long as Martok is alive that relations are very good, he likes Humans and also understands them (better than most Humans do). Does he succeed in moving the Klingon Empire away from a feudalistic society? Can he change the rules of succession so that a non corrupt leader can be elected afterwards. He may well seek to institute massive reforms because he has the authority and respect… and political captial to do so. But even if the Klingons went back to type, they are too overmatched to be a threat. Especially with the Romulans mostly out of the picture.
The Breen… unless it was the same idiots who did the treaty of Algernon, the Breen will have to give up their secrets and be subjected to inspections, so there goes their air of mystery.
And all the losers will get their technology reverse engineered by StarFleet no doubt.
Just think, if the Breen hadn't joined the Dominion, they could've won a post war War, because their energy dampener would have been unchallenged. It was only blind luck that that one Klingon ship discovered the settings to be immune. And it was a hole in Dominion security that allowed a ship to be hijacked.
Joining the Dominion really can suck when it comes to long term goals of conquest.
And as for the Dominion, they are relatively stagnant, while StarFleet constantly innovates. Some time in the future, the Federation will reach the Dominions territory in the Gamma Quadrant without using the wormhole. And they will be a lot more powerful than the Dominion by then, and on guard.
Wow!!! You put alot of time and thought in this comment. Either Google should send you and trophy, or somebody who grew up with "The Golden Age of Star Trek" who works at CBS hires you to make an real Star Trek show, and not the bullshit CBS is making now.
The Breen made the rational choice. If they joined the Alpha Quadrant Alliance and lost, they would be exterminated, if they joined the Dominion and lost, they would lose territory and technological secrets.
I personally would militarize the Fededation of Planets to eventually become like the Galactic Republic in Star Wars. Then the last stage would be to declare a Galactic Empire over all species.
Due to its telepathic population Betazed might have gone into isolation due to experiencing the trauma of those who suffered in the occupation, so to heal mentality.
I think the Breen originally developed the energy dampening weapon to combat the klingons. Once the Dominion discovered it existence they offered them a deal ether they joined them and gained power in the Alpha quadrant or they're allow the Klingons to find out the Breen were planning to destroy the empire piece by piece and once their fleet was gone others including the Romulans would mop up the rest
Exposing Proxy Stalking Organized Harrassment good luck with that lol
Basically what you described is the what the world looked like on November 12, 1918
September 3, 1945, September 12, 2001 and whatever date marks the day after the current crisis.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough while true, nothing reshaped the world quite like the end of World War 1. The Austrian-Hungarian Empire and Ottoman Empire both were dissolved, Russia was overthrown, several new countries were formed, and the United States became a world power
@@christophercole8114 The united states already were a world power ...
Just look at the pacific situation... I became one after they supported cuba in the cuban-spanish-american war ...
Colonies like the philipeans,etc. getting into american control ..
@@majormononoke8958 I think he meant it was the first time that the United States seriously involved in the geopolitics of Europe after World War 1. Before their main concerns of interests in were in North, South American, East and Southeast Asia, the Pacific ocean area.
Well Odo did go back to the Great Link at the end of DS9, so the assumption that the Gamma Quadrant didn't go back to war is because all the changelings in the Link felt the emotions of Odo and his experiences and memories. It was smart of Starfleet to hold the female changeling as a war criminal because has she gone back to the Link. Her emotional hatred of the 'solids' would have influenced the Great Link.
They all had that same hatred already… she didn’t have extra hatred.
She was just one individual in a species of xenophobes. If anything her imprisonment would force the Dominion to obey the ceasefire. The Founders would never risk her safety by resuming hostilities.
@@tompearce5418 Xenophobia means the fear of the others. I am pretty sure the Founders in the Link were mistrustful of solids and some disliked solids. But the female Founder actually fought the war in the Alpha Quadrant and in her eyes 'betrayed' by her solid allies. She has memories of fighing a bitter war and losing and the last moments betrayed by the Cardassians. Heck in her eyes the genocide of the Cardassians was justified; that was the amount of hatred for the solids she had. If she merged with the Link, some of the founders in the Link who were on the fence aka mistrustful and disliked solids would have been swayed with her memories.
It does seem like the New Essentialists got what they wanted after all but a great cost.
Another likely problem faced bt the Federation would stem from worlds thqt were previously isolated or protected by the Prime Directive. I am sure the Dominion would have landed on / invaded any of these worlds if they provided an advantage... as would the Federations Klingon and Romulan allies. Post war what do you do with them? What assistance and dwiddling resources do you put forward towards this issue? So many possible story lines
I imagine they'd create a committee of experts from across the Federation to figure out the best way to handle the situation based on the planet's circumstances. Come up with criteria where they leave and pull a "Picard and his broken shoulder on Mentaka 3", versus criteria where the planet was close enough to warp that they "bend" the Prime Directive and do a "Vulcan being warp teases after First Contact".
1) Among the victors, the Klingons probably suffered the highest loses, so there is reason for them to demand compensation in the form of Cardassian territory at the peace table.
2) It's unclear if the Romulans captured any Cardassian territory by war's end, but if they did, their treacherous nature casts doubt on whether they would relinquish it, even if they signed a treaty that said they would do so.
3) I don't see evidence for your conclusion that the Romulans fought poorly during the Dominion War. Yes, they lost their ships during the failed attack on the Founder's homeworld, but that was a tiny fraction of their fleet. The Romulan strategy of staying out of the war until late when all the combatants were beaten up was smart. Unlike the Federation, I never heard of the Romulans losing any planets to the Dominion, and it sounded like the Romulans only ever advanced forward into Cardassian space.
4) Cardassia was always a second-rate power, and the Dominion War definitely relegated it to permanent third-rate status. Remember that, before the Dominion War, Cardassia was evolving into a democracy, and I suspect that process would have resumed after the War. Also, the Federation would surely give Cardassia the most postwar aid, which would ingratiate the Cardassians and influence their society and politics. However, they seemed like too proud a people to join the Federation.
5) The postwar impact on the Dominion is less clear. Yes, the fleet they sent into the Alpha Quadrant was ultimately expendable, and their massive reserves left in the Gamma Quadrant were untouched. However, the virus that the Great Link was infected with might have done more damage than thought. Maybe it didn't just sicken the Founders, but it killed many of them. We can't tell because the Great Link looks like a sea of uniform goo, but it is probably full of discrete individual blobs of goo, and its possible many of the individuals got so sick that they died before Odo arrived with the cure. If the War was a high-casualty event for the Founders, then it surely scarred them, shook their confidence, and would make them wary of attacking the Alpha Quadrant again. Odo's psychological influence on them would also help to that end. A likely outcome would have been a less aggressive Dominion that treated its subjects a little better, but still didn't want to be friends with anyone else.
@Amber Hoke But during Sisko's monologue at the end of "In the Pale Moonlight," he says the Romulans "struck 15 bases along the Cardassian border."
Accordin to "tales of the Dominion War" The Federation sufferred 90 Billion casualties. The UFP was the Dominion's primary target. They knew we were the primary power in the Alpha Quadrant.
@@KH4444444444N I didn't know that. Given their reckless nature and craving for death in battle, I suspect the Klingons suffered a higher per capita casualty rate than the Federation or Romulans.
Also, remember that a "casualty" is not the same thing as a "fatality." Casualties include people who were wounded, even slightly. And thanks to the Federation's advanced medical treatments, even most casualties with severe injuries were probably healed. The 90 billion casualty figure could mean a fatality figure in the single-digit billions.
@@funkervogt47 Order the paperback novel :Tales of The Domion War. The cover has Human, Andorian, and Vulcan hands clutching the flag of the United Federation of Planets against a burning background. Edited by Keith RA DeCandido.
All the shows since DS9 seem to gloss over the affects of the war, they all seem to reflect more on Borg invasions. Also, may be as a special breakdown of ships built specifically designed to fight the Borg or Dominion.
There is only one show set after DS9 that could really be impacted by the war - Picard.
The day after the Dominion War saw the most hangovers ever recorded in Klingon history.
And a few years later starfleet got a multi alien AND TIME TRAVELED upgraded intrepid class ship literally spat out at earth by a Borg transwarp corridor (seriously what were the Borg planning with that?!) complete with god armor, 1 shot torpedos and a list of every potential threat of the Delta quadrant to the federation.
Seriously, at that point I think only the Borg could put up a fight, with probably worst losses than 8472.
All of Voyager's upgrades would have disappeared when Admiral Janeway's timeline ceased to exist.
1stgradevernacular If I recall voyager still had the armor in the final shot of the series finale.
I think the rule when it comes to temporal paradox is there anything the time traveler takes with them stays, Plus all she did was just hand off the plans to build the armor and torpedos, no actual hardware.
Borg had already adapted the armor technology by the end of the episode.
The Borg in Endgame were planning use the transwarp corridor to do to the Federation what they did to Guinan's people; sweep the system leaving only small scattered communities behind.
They were supposed to invade and Assimilate the entire Federation on the very date Voyager got home. It is this temporal shift between timelines that allows future Janeway into the events without repercussions, since Voyager getting home leads to the Temporal Cold War.
I'm pleased that you acknowledged that the Federation likely came out stronger. The war only lasted 2 years. As you mentioned that first year losses were bad, the feds were still ramping up production. If the War dragged on another year. It may have been possible that the Federation production levels would have made the outcome of the war a forgone conclusion. Yes the Dominion could build ships fast, but we know the Cardassians are resource poor.
As for the war starting again. If the timeline was 5-10 years after, the Feds are fully recovered the Dominion is ready to try again. That would have been a massive epic war.
Also, given the Federation's ability to engineer their way out of problems, I am sure they would speed up production of existing ships and make faster-to-build ships.
Vreenak teased Sisko that Dominion ship and troop factories were at 100% capacity while the Federation was still rebuilding their shipyards. While he was right that the Federation was at a manpower disadvantage having to raise troops the old fashioned way, his jab revealed that the Federation has a massive untapped industrial capacity.
First, let's hope Odo can help the Founders learn to be peaceful and trusting. Second, Martok and Worf will lead the Klingon Empire into something greater. Also, a separate treaty between the Klingons and whatever government forms on Cardassia can fix the issue of the border. Third, I am sure that there are going to be defense mechanisms on the wormhole.
Honestly, I don’t see Odo changing the Founders much if anything they will get even more suspicious. Odo has an innate need for order. Odo knows all the tricks of the solids..he was a security Chief for many years. I don’t see the JemHadar changing or the Vorta for that matter!
I kind of envisioned the wormhole eventually surrounded by dozens upon dozens of planetary type defense platforms, with very tightly controlled navigation channels for incoming/departing ships.
The change in Starfleet and Federation culture towards a more militaristic and xenophobic posture was something I really wished had been explored in the Picard series. I could see this being a big part of his disillusionment. He's an explorer first and foremost, and Starfleet doesn't want that anymore. They want soldiers who shoot first and open hailing frequencies later. And the next unexplored star system is no longer a thing of wonder, but of menace.
Ben Pimp Hand Sisko was in the celestial temple.... They were getting slaughtered as soon as they entered!
Lol love it!
A star trek series of Post Dominion war.. yes.. we need one
Another great video by lore Reloaded. Just some observations, 3.17-3.27 ('Hm this blue liquid you call paint thinner really curls my eyebrows1') 3.48-3.52 ("where the heck are the toilets I need to relieve myself') 4.47-4.52 ("Oops,sorry I thought that turned on the lights") 4.55-5.25 ("Do you know how long it took to make that coat? and you don't like the color?") 8.25- 8.37 ( Much better those transporters are so useful just hope it was into a toilet!!") 8.39-8.42 " captain Kirk "OMG. that is our future? " Mr Sulu "I don't believe it captain!" Captain Kirk "that no one could possibly replace me ?" Mr Sulu "No captain that anyone in any star Trek timeline could overact more than you!!" A fantastic Star Trek video as always by Lore reloaded.
The Alpha Quadrant Alliance shouldn’t have let Odo (along with the cure to the disease he carried) return to the Great Link until the Dominion agreed to surrender all forces, equipment, and territories.
CHANGE MY MIND.🤨☕️#2
If he hadn't, the Cardassians would be extinct.
The female shapeshifter is the best guarantee of peace. The other Founders would never resume hostilities and risk her being executed by her captors.
Voyager brought back super speed warp, Borg busting weapons, and Batmobile Armor. The Federation became so OP that the following shows and movies (until Picard, finally) had to be either set in the past or a rebooted universe... because there wouldn't be much tension or conflict to challenge The Federation.
The Dominion wouldn't have a chance if they tried to come back through and give it another go.
A lot of the best stories star trek can do don't need some sort existential threat to the federation to work.
I always assumed that the Farangi would just have Rom assassinated when his reformes got too insane.
I figure Zek, Moogie, & Quark would be his eyes & ears & keep him safe. Plus he could hire that one Ferengan that values fighting over profit to be his Chief of Security. Also, given how unrestricted, greedy, & disproportionately wealthy the top Ferengi are, I imagine Rom would have the support of the 99.999999999% 😄
@@carlosrvra Upending a civilisation over night is messy
I think Federation's ideology about Starfleet nearly cost them the war with an attitude that they are not a military organization, but only an exploration organization, nearly cost them the war. It's a form of idealism carried so far it became a pathology and I suspect, left to its own devices, the post-war Starfleet would eventually go back to its pacifist ways just as the post-TOS Starfleet did after the Khitomer treaty was signed with the Klingons.
What's so ridiculous is that there's really an easy solution to this cultural problem within the Federation government's institutions. Starfleet wants to explore. Fine, Starfleet can be explorers with no military / defense function at all...but to prevent another Dominion War or Borg incursion type situation, a new institution is needed, one dedicated solely to the physical defense and maintaining the territorial and political sovereignty of the United Federation of Planets from external threats.
Such an organization definitely IS a military organization, and it's mission would not be to explore, but to train for war and then win wars if they occur. Such an organization might be called something simple, like the Navy, or you might want a less nautical/space specific moniker on it since it's likely this military institution would also be responsible for combat on the ground as well.
This is an entirely reasonable solution to this institutional cultural problem and avoids the failures that nearly lead to the destruction of the Federation in the first place.
Contrary to the extreme view against militarization, there's no reason to believe that creation of such an organization would constitute an increased coup threat against the duly elected government, either. While there would be a threat of that happening, that threat already exists with Starfleet, and indeed such things have been attempted. I would submit, that creating a Navy would, in fact, reduce the overall threat of a coup, because as of now if a rogue group in Starfleet attempts a coup, there is no other armed uniformed service to stop them. If the Federation maintained Starfleet and a Navy, either one could oppose the other by force if one went rogue.
Which BTW is what countries do in modern times -- for example in the USA you have three seafaring uniformed services (a) a warfighting Navy (b) a Coast Guard for rescue/shipping protection/law enforcement (plus join in with the Navy if there's fighting happening) and (c) the NOAA Corps to man science/research vessels and aircraft. The problem in OUR IRL timeline is of coursw that the warfighters will suck up all the budget, but the Federation is supposed to have overcome *that* excuse.
One thing that always kind of bugged me was that the treaty stipulated a complete withdrawal of all Dominion forces from the Quadrant. However, the Breen weren't just allies, they were formal members of the Dominion. How does this order affect them? Are their forces reduced to a level needed for policing actions?
Also, I can definitely see why the Treaty would force Bajor to remain independent. If they joined the Federation, that would give the Federation absolute cotrol over one end of the Wormhole, and by extension, indirect control over all future dealings with the Dominion. All trade would have to go through them, all diplomatic actions, any kind of exploratory missions. All through them. Keeping Bajor independent and (presumably) neutral, gives all major powers a hypothetical fair shot at future dealings.
Dukat would have allied with the Dominion no matter what. If it meant he could become supreme leader of Cardassia.
Of course, making this officially canon requires a decent writing team that actually cares about the Trek universe...
Too bad they don't work for CBS.
@Kasen Kendall if you and your girlfriend have trust issues to that degree, you should probably call it a day.
This is exactly what a new ST series should have explored. The Dominion War aftermath. It keep DS9 and Bajor relevant and we get to see a part of the galaxy we've seen very little of.
THANK YOU for calling them Rihannsu. I was beginning to think I was the only one who'd read those books.
I think DS9 is probably a far more realistic version of Star Trek. It doesn't matter how peaceful, tolerant, or good willed a species could be, the fact is there could be other species out there who could want nothing more than the domination or even the wholesale annihilation of other species (such as the Dominion or the Borg). No amount of "we come in peace" could change the minds of any species like that.
The Breen were just told to go home. They didn't get any real territory gain, they only lost ships, and they had no true stake in the conflict other than to thumb their nose at the Federation, and because the Dominion asked them nicely to help. Of all the groups, the Breen got off basically scot-free. All they lost were ships and crews, which apparently they had in plentiful supply wherever their star-nation is. I'd love to see the Breen take a slightly more forward, but less confrontational aspect in something like say, Picard or any future series. Not neccessarily a threat, but definitely a looming, sleeping power that could be roused into action if provoked. (which is why everyone treats the Breen nicely on the street.)
I think it's pretty much stated in DS9 that the female changeling only surrendered because Odo linked with her and told her he could cure the rest of the great link. It's pretty clear that she would've been willing to fight until the end if there wasn't a cure for the sickness.
5:25 In the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Strange Bedfellows," it is revealed that the Breen homeworld was heavily bombarded by the Dominion and Cardassian forces during the final days of the war. The Breen government subsequently signed a non-aggression treaty with the Federation and withdrew from the conflict.
The fate of the Breen after the Dominion War is not explicitly stated in the Star Trek canon. However, it is implied that they suffered significant losses during the war and their military capabilities were greatly diminished.
It is possible that the Breen suffered significant societal and economic disruption as a result of the war and its aftermath, but no further details are provided in the canon.
This is one of your best videos.
Just leaving a comment so you get the credit from RUclips. Great job mate!
thumbs up for the Rihansu reference, such a superior history backstory than what we got in canon
Great video Lore like always 😁🖖
In any treaty to end a War, there must be provisions to punish the aggressor.
Klingon's keeping the territory they won early on might seem unfair, but Cardassia had to lose those regions...to give them back would be a symbolic reward.
There has to be a stern message to those who partnered with the Founders; you betrayed an entire quadrant, you are not getting anything of value out of this. All stick, no carrot.
To get that straight... Klingons STARTING a War against the Cardis, anexxing a Ton of Territory and they should keep them becouse giving it back to the rightful Owner would be somehow a Reward for Cardassias "Agression"? wtf are you smoking Dude?
Nevermind the insanity of the Idea that the "Agressor"(weird how the winning Faction is never called Agressor) has to be crippeled in its teritorial Integrity
@@ottersirotten4290 That happened in WW1. WW2 was the consequence of those decisions.
It's crazy how you stated we would never see the fallout of the changlings returning but here we are
Basically to sum up, by the time of Star Trek Picard, the Romulans are splintered and its intelligence network was a shadow of what it was in TNG and DS9. The Klingons are still rebuilding, and are likely going through a period of reform, (also they are still Federation allies), the Cardassians are in pieces, and so have probably turned to the federation for help, not joining the federation, but becoming allies, just like the Klingons. And so this basically leaves the Federation which thanks to voyager is the most advanced, most powerful entity in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
(The thing about the Cardassians is just speculation, however I see it being the most likely option)
I always think it's odd how relatively tiny the casualties were in the Dominion war.
I like the point you made about how the Dominion War kind of just made the Federation stronger. It's a lot like what Dukat was saying about how the occupation strengthened Bajor. I'm not 100% certain if Dukat was right when he said that (I'm not sure about anything Dukat says) but it definitely seems to ring true re: the Dominion and the Federation.
And yet, by the start of Picard, the Federation has appeared to withdraw from a lot of intergalactic politics. Obviously, the events of the destruction of Romulus played a large part in that but it is also reasonable to believe that while the Federation came out stronger from a military standpoint, there would be a strong anti-war isolationist movement as well. The numbers of dead, not just from the Federation but in the galaxy were likely in the billions (you may have covered that in a previous video? Can't remember). So, that coupled with the synthetic rebellion really caused a significant change in the Federations attitude. It will be interesting to see how the Klingons have responded, although I doubt Picard goes into that much. It seems much smaller scale than that. It could change in future seasons, I suppose. The show does seem interested in, at least briefly, providing some explanation of the state of the galaxy post Voyager. They aren't in a hurry to do it or even change it, but they have given some "This is how this is now" type things.
What makes you think they withdrew from intergalactic politics?
@@Bitchslapper316 Withdraw might be too strong of a word, but it seems they became much more internally focused, with stopping of helping the Romulans. Beyond that, there really hasn't been much information provided. We have no idea what the status is with the Klingons, Cardassians, or even if the Bajorans joined the Federation.
It's hard to say, because it would appear that certain underworld elements have a higher prominance, but I would argue that it always existed and we are just now seeing it put into the forefront. Previous series focused on the military/government fleets, but not much beyond that. Picard gives us a much better idea of what life in the Federation is probably like for people not living on Earth.
In the aftermath of the Dominion war, at least in the fiction I've always written for myself, I've thought of the Cardassian union as having by necessity become a protectorate of the Federation. Much like what happened to Japan after the Second World War - that the United States took Japan under its wing (so to speak) in order to prevent other regional powers from choosing after the war to settle scores with a weakened and devastated Japan (for example the Philippines and China which had been brutally occupied by Japan), as well as the US working to make sure that Japanese society comes back together in such a way that it is economically and not militarily driven resulting in the Japanese economic powerhouse with a small protectionist military (if you can even call it that) that Japan is today. Getting back to the Cardassian union, I've always envisioned that the Cardassian occupation and control of Bajor was just one of many planets in many systems that Cardassia controlled whether the controlled be sympathizers (I always assumed that even Cardassia had allies) to just those that were occupied and controlled by force (you think Bajor was the only occupied planet with a resistance?). As the war turns for the Dominion powers and the Cardassians become more and more battered ultimately their military becoming shattered and those in that military being killed by the thousands, now those occupied worlds like Bajor are suddenly free and dare I say some are ready to settle some scores. Not wanting regional wars to breakout, wars that have a habit of spilling over and pulling in larger powers, Starfleet on behalf of the Federation worked throughout Cardassian space sending the message that they (Starfleet) sympathizes with your grievances about Cardassia but you won't be allowed to settle scores violently and also sending messages to the remnants of the Cardassian military and/or government what they'd be allowed to keep and give up (occupied worlds and other stuff by negotiation or just having it taken away from them like a toy taken from an unruly child) . The Federation itself worked to assist Cardassia with rebuilding so that while no Cardassia won't ever likely be a completely democratic republic, they are something approaching it where the military decidedly is not in charge. We've seen glimpses of Cardassians who don't sympathies with Cardassian military being in charge (TNG episodes Below Decks and the Wounded) and having witnessed the devastation that had been wrought upon them by the military's desire for territory and domination, now with Federation backing and Starfleet's protection it would've been their chance to remake Cardassian government.
I think it's more appropriate to think of postwar Cardassia as post-WWII Germany. It had lost significant territory forever and was occupied by three different powers (remember Martok and Sisko drinking blood wine on Cardassia Prime--and I'm sure Romulans were around as well). As with Germany, Cardassia would have probably become an ideological battleground between those powers, though the Federation would have been the strongest one. The Federation would have supported democratization whereas the Romulans would have done their usual scheming to support terrorists and militant Cardassians. The Klingons would have done whatever to retain their captured Cardassian planets and to keep the remaining part of Cardassian space from getting strong enough to be a threat again.
I would have preferred that they let the founders die. It would have been anti-star trek and upset the purest amongst us fans, but it would have been a much more dramatic and realistic end. Maybe something along the line of Garak killing Odo, after the female changeling was healed by ODO and signed off on the surrender, before he could reach the Great Link. Sounds harsh and pretty awful, but when you consider the contempt that the Changelings have for solids and their ability to build ships and to produce soldiers its the most logical course of action. It may take them 10 years or 100, but its not hard to imagine them re-building their fleets and storming through the Alpha Quadrant at a later date. Sometime way later when the Alpha Quadrant thinks of the Dominion War much like we today think of WW1. Not really understanding just how destructive and awful it was to live through. Additionally, we never really know why the female Changeling agreed to surrender after being healed, did she just want Odo to have the chance to heal the great link or was she truly changed on her thought process on solids. Knowing that they Starfleet had the power to destroy the Great Link and decided not too may have altered all Changelings perspective. Although I doubt that, knowing that someone has the power to wipe you out makes them the greatest threat of all. Hopefully a book or maybe even some later set of movies will deal with subject. They'll be back for sure, maybe I'm a Changeling writing this post, all you solids will pay for your crimes!!
Dominion War - part 2 WOULD BE A Good thing
to see
Y'all ready for the Bell riots?
Gimmie them
Dude said " read the treaty" like it a authentic historical document!@! Lovely
It can still exist
This was amazing. Thanks
It could be a really interesting series to see the Federation post-war. Some people fear-mongering and desperately trying to continue arming and increasing defenses for the sake of protection, while others strive to return to the Federation's previous style. It could result in civil war, a coup, splinter groups like the Maquis, etc. The Federation would be trying desperately to keep providing aid to those who were harmed by the war (both internally and outside), dealing with limited supplies and large distances, as well as internal conflict. And how would this impact the introduction of new members, as well as the continuation of older ones?
Some races may have thought the actions the Federation took during the war were unacceptable and want to leave. Some new members may feel similarly and look at the Federation as a warfare-encouraging state rather than one of peaceful exploration, and not want to join.
So many interesting possibilities.
Hah! I see that comment at the end of the video! I'm glad. Honestly, way too many crazy people on the internet these days.
As for the subject itself; VERY interesting analysis on the Klingons. It also wouldn't surprise me if the way Starfleet is in Picard is heavily drawn upon DS9's post-Dominion War.
The Romulan star empire remains strong, never have any doubts about that!
The biggest problem here is that the treaty was written by people with no knowledge of international diplomacy or war fighting.
Rihannsu? It's good to see another fan of the Diane Duane version of Romulan culture.
I would be interested to see a group outside the Milky Way become a threat. Not another realm, or dimension. Star Trek is much like Star Wars in that they keep all the drama in one galaxy. Imagine a threat that attacks all known powers inside the galaxy.
The Federation, Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Theolians, Dominion, Borg, Sullivan, Q. Imagine a threat that requires all these groups having to face a threat outside any known . Yes even the Q.
Nah, that would be beyond boring, any species that's powerful enough to fight against the Q could simply make every other species in the galaxy cease to exist with a snap of their fingers
Loved this video,keep um coming.
Once Odo joined with the great link everything would have changed with the Dominion, with the great link all of the founders would have a new understanding of the people of the alpha quadrant and the Dominion would have become a peaceful group
Lol, are you insane? I think they founders are now more dangerous than ever. With Odo’s input they may no longer be hell bent on conquest but I’m sure their security will be increased due to Odo’s insurance.
@@JemHadar422 Even worse, they develop a passion for Odo's 'by the book' approach to bureaucratic enforcement.. They re-infiltrate the Alpha Quadrant as zoning officers and traffic enforcers ... I.e. You're hovercar is parked 6 centimeters over the line, here's a ticket. The Quadrant is brought to its knees via cumulative petty fines.
@@jerseykaari good points.
Even if the Romulans has 3,000 ships all capable of moving 10000 people at a time (which seems unlikely as star trek doesn't know how to scale) it would still take over 166 trips to evacuate 6 billion people from the entire planet. Going on Voyagers sail speed, best these ships could do would be 3 lights years per day.
Since it wasn't Romulas that exploded, be safe to say they would need an m class world at least 10.5 light years away to be somewhat safe.
So each round trip would take 7 days... Thats 3,486 days or 9.5 years to evacuate Romulas. I have tried to give all these numbers the benefit of the doubt to the in Universe lore.
They would need the federations help to evacuate, however based on the maps that are now cannon, even if the federation left from Earth right away it would take 5 years to get there to help 😅.
Cannon in Star Trek is such an absolute mess!
Feriginar being a free market isn’t true. It is referred to as so and outsides depict it as but it’s society is bound by strict bureaucratic and government control over individuals both commercially and socially. It fines women and their families for breaking their traditions. It can unilaterally black-list citizens from trade for personal disputes between members without any appeal or arbitration. And when a citizen has to interact with their government momentum is only feasible due to bribery and graft. The grand nagus is essentially a dictator, with complete control over the state and can make any decree with only token possibility of balance of power by a nebulous second governing body. But compared to all the rest of the universe, it has the freest markets, and what a condemnation of the Star Trek future that is.
Well, the Starfleet after the Dominion War will be like the modern US Navy. It does have oceanographic ships. Even the submarines are sometimes used to map the Arctic Ocean. However, the first duty is still a military organization. I think some of the episodes mentioned done have civilian science ships like those in the real National Ocengraphic Ocean Organization, which is a civilian ocean research organization in the US government. But, US Navy ships sometimes do get involved due to their specialized features just like how starfleet ships are sometimes used in civilian scientific research.
What you said could be a whole new trek
I thought that the all but two of the Changelings were kill by the BORG.
You know, I am surprised that everyone makes one major assumption despite the source of information being sketching at best, that the Dominion is the only major power in the Gamma Quadrant. Or even control more than half its territory.
We all assume that they are the only power in the Gamma Quadrant because representatives in the Dominion says they are, but considering they lie about their age, then the amount of territory they control could also be a lie. Especially since I doubt they will tell potential enemies of a potentially powerful ally waiting in the wings.
We know from the Star Trek Maps that the dominion control a territory roughly the same size as the Federation but have about 3 times the number of ships. The Federation with it's currently fleet could crush any Alpha Quadrant powers. There are definelty strong powers within the Gamma Quadrant though but the Founders focus on the Alpha Quadrant suggests there is nothing like the situation where there are equally strong powers, otherwise the Dominion wouldn't have cared.
@@manticore4952 I disagree on several categories:
1) I wonder how big Dominion Space is when you consider how slow Dominion ships are. Yes, I know that some technical manuals claim Dominion ships can achieve Warp 9.5. But DS9 has stated a Klingon Bird of Prey can outrun a Jem'haddar fighter at Warp, and they can barely achieve Warp 9. In fact, the Jem'haddar could barely catch up when the Klingons ships were damaged and reached speeds of Warp 7.9. Now, if it can take a ship half a century to cross an entire quadrant at Warp 9.975, at Warp 8, it would take centuries. This means either the Dominion is a centralized power that is as big or smaller than the Federation, considered more than half the Alpha and Beta is unknown to the Federation. Or it's decentralized as it spread across the entire Quadrant since it would take decades to reinforce its territory. I think it's more the former than later.
2) The Dominion fleet seems to operate in a Just in Time mentality, which means they only make and operate the numbers they feel necessary. Which explains why they went so hard to disrupt the Alpha Quadrant powers instead of plopping a 3,000 size fleet at the mouth of the Wormhole Day 1 of First Contract. Combined with the fact they have a clone army and can build fleets in weeks, the reason they waited 2 years before sending an invasion force is less due to having a friendly power to establish a forward base and more that it took that long to build a large enough force they feel comfortable to attack the Alpha Quadrant and keep their holdings and local powers in check.
3) We know very little of the inner working of the Dominion and how much focus was just on the Federation. They may have only sent the resources they could have to afford to send, not their full attention. For a dozen to a hundred Changelings out of the millions that they could have sent sounds like a small force.
4) I hate to say it, but while technical manuals and star charts seem like good sources of information, they are not cannon. Writers can, and have made said material invalid on a yearly basis before new Star Trek and technical manuals can vary in data. For example, the Sovereign was stated to have a maximum Warp Speed of 8, 9.5, 9.85, and 9.995 by various manuals. They could also simply say, "This is what Starfleet Intelligence thinks this is how big Dominion Space is," only to find out they are wrong.
The Star Trek armada mod is very interesting!
It shows that the dominion took over the federation in 25/26th century and returned to the alpha quadrant with brig transwarp tech
It blows my mind when people refer to the ferengi alliance as a free market or pure capitalistic society. Its a freaking patriarchal theocracy where material wealth is the God. A true free market wouldn’t bar you from trade if you’re a woman. It wouldn’t care. If you have something of value, you are a participant.
The Ferengi were intended originally as a "commentary" on capitalism...and were meant to be the new "main bad guys" of the 24th century. The clownishness of both the concept and their appearance became evident pretty quickly. Later, the extremely frightening (and thus, effective) bad guys arrived in the "collectivist" Borg. 😁
It sounds like 99% of the history of capitalism before socialist ideals began to save us from it
One key thing you forgot to mention. General Martok was the one who pushed for war with the Cardassians, who by the way was a Founder. So the Klingon are not completely the bad guys during the war. Even if it was an agenda, it was still the founders idea to weaken the alpha quadrant. They also sent baby changlings into the quadrant to learn how to understand other beings. Or scout to take over more galactic territory.
Exactly, the Klingons were a peaceful people who never bothered anyone. It took the Dominion impersonating their leaders to get them to go to war.
Re 9.14 I just noticed the logo on the building bears a striking similarity to the Terran Federation logo from Blake's 7.
The Klingons couldnt keep whatever territory they claimed, the war set them back by 20 years. The Ferengi would likley gain more influence and power due to their technology being on a simialr level to the Federations and the fact they stayed out of the fighting.
What is known is that the Klingons, Cardassians and the Dominion fared the worst, the Dominion lost thousands of ships, more so than anyone. They couldnt use the wormhole during the war because of two reasons, the prophets interfernce and the Federation armada and DS9 itself defending it, which caused them to have to build and produce ketty white and ships in the Alpha Quadrant. This wouldnt change, the wormhole would still be defended post war.
Odo's promise to the lead founder ensured that the Dominions poloices would change and become more open to cooperation in the future.
The Breen were likley sanctioned, occupied and not allowed to create weapons of war, good fuck em.
The two major powers psot war were the Federation and the Romulans, the Romulans because the entered the war late and the Federation because of how large it's influence is.
But I think the Federation has taken a more militaristic doctrine post war, Riker in command of the Cheng Wei says that is it the most powerful ship ever created by the Federation of which there are hundreds built. It seems that the Federation is trying to learn from it's mistakes of the past.
I always assumed that the Ferengi Alliance would go back to its original ways shortly after Rom taking office.
The Nagus made all those sweeping changes but he had the financial reputation to carry it out and Q & R’s mom’s (I can’t remember the characters name) business smarts to back him up. Now you have sweet hearted Rom with Brunt to watch his back... To quote Quark “I give it six months.” Some traditionalist would out maneuver the new regime (probably with Brunt selling out everybody on all sides) and dump all the reforms. Just my opinion.
Ishka
Rom and Ishka would have been thrown off the top of the spire of the tower of commerce in the first 72 hours of returning to Ferenginar.
With a stronger UFP, I think the Dominion War would've been followed by a cold war between the Breen Confederacy and the UFP. The Dominion-Breen alliance is what led to an attack on Earth, and Federation citizens would remember that. Breen culture is militaristic, and the post-war isolation would feed a lot of defensive posturing.
I like to think that the Dominion reacted to losing its fleet in the wormhole by building and dispatching a host of generation ships to resume the war 100 years hence.
I have always wondered about the politics in the gamma quadrant. We know the dominion controls most of the space around the wormhole and a big chunk of the quadrant but surly there are other rival factions in the quadrant we haven't seen yet. Who knows, maybe they are engaged in conflicts on all their borders.
Bitchslapper316 the Dominion dominates the Gama quadrant!
Yeah , but for how long though ? once word gets around that they're mighty Juggernaut of a society was defeated by a bunch of near rag-tag ' ( community ) neighboring powers ' in a far inferior part of the Galaxy " they may start to see cracks in their invincibility as a Galactic Super-power ' js !
@@bernardcalloway2205 "far inferior part of the galaxy"
Care to elaborate?
@@Bitchslapper316 The Founders mindset was always that (The Solids )
Were a violent , uncivilized race of bigotry and hatred ' towards anyone or anything other to themselves , so in they're minds and thoughts they saw them and they're tech as Inferior "
Some of their Technology was superior to the Federation , but in that same standing some of the Federation's Technology was Better , say for instance
Starfleets ships were More maneuverable and quite faster ' than Dominion Warships ' and the fact that the Dominion would rather Ram they're ships and or lose it in some other fashion , than Repair it or retro-fit them is a case for that ' but hey they mass produce everything anyway So ... js '🙄.
Don't forget the events in the novel series. One of the reasons that the Dominions didn't aggressively went into the Federation territory was because of the virogen that was affecting the Federation worlds in the ShatnerVerse Avenger novel. The Dominion didn't want to get infected themselves from conquering quarantined worlds so they were just satisfied in wiping out Starfleet. Just after the war, there was the Genesis Wave that hit the sectors near the Romulan&Klingon&Federation Neutral Zone borders. This crippled the Romulans from taking over the worlds that they gained as they were too busy evacuating their own worlds from the Genesis Wave. The Romulans were also busy against their former allied Vulcan clans that left with them when they left Vulcan thousands of yrs ago. Those former Vulcans are like the Remans who are pissed at the Romulans for exploiting&then abandoning them. They had started destroying entire planets at the Delta Quadrant borders of the Romulan Empire. This likely inspired the Remans to try the coup that wiped out the Romulan Senate. Then there's the Hand of Destiny novels with the Klingons as Martok's Ex-Wife was experimenting on turning her troops into Hurq. She tried to take over the Klingon empire after Martok returns at the end of the Dominion War. Finally the Borg's too busy with the Undine(Species 8472)&Unimatrix Zero.
The Klingon/Cardassian War was technically a seperate conflict and thus not covered by the Treaty of Bajor.
Except for the fact that the Treaty of Bajor made the gains by the Klingon permanent, prior to the treaty that conflict was unresolved, and it wasn't separate, it was how the Dominion War started
I loved the ferengi in ST DS9.
They are greedy, selfish, cowards but true cunning businessman.
I liked the episode when the Nagus liberate the females and let them earn money. It was logicaly explained why and how this was good for all ferengi to earn more profit.
BUT in the last few episodes I feeled bad for the old Nagus. He was manipulated by Quark's mom to do questionable and unprofitable progressions. In this profit focus society this is very bad and then give the leadership to Rom. I liked Rom, but he did nothing to be a real ferengi Nagus and lead his people to more profit.
Nice video, thank you!
I've just seen this video. The female changing would have feared the federation invading domion space due to their technological advancement. The dominion were clearly more advanced when they encountered the federation. The federation were on par with them after 4 years. The dominion saw the Sovereign class and defiant class being mass produced, which were aimed more towards war and replacing the older golden age classes of ships. Piccard season 3 ( I know this video is older) showed much faster and advanced ships. They even made the warp effects different from the Titan to the Enterprise D to show the difference. The Federation most probably was more advanced than the dominion during this time, which the female changeling forsaw.
I'm only recognising Picard season 3 to this timeline. Picard S1-S2, Discovery, especially after season 3 and Strange New Worlds are part of a different time line which I like to call the Kurtsman Timeline lol.
I think the Dominion was never worried about the Alpha Quadrant as a military threat, instead they were worried about the cultural influence they could have in the Gamma Quadrant. The Dominion kept it’s members controlled with fear, intimidation, and gratuitous violence. But if enough Dominion member species got the idea to rise up together, possibly supported by resources gained in trade from the Alpha Quadrant, then the Founder’s control would be seriously threatened. And the Founders know this. The Dominion is huge, no matter how many Jem Hadar they produced, without the infrastructure and resources from their member worlds supporting them they could never retain control. Not to mention there may be other threats to the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant that we don’t know about. The Hurq for instance, maybe even Borg incursions.
The federation has got to get new leadership
Excellent video.
Does the Klingon empire (and other Fed allies) get a "Marshall Plan" from the UFP to rebuild? What are the terms, if any, for that aid?
Considering the President of the Federation in the 32nd century is part Cardassian, I’d say the Cardassian joined the Federation and began intermingling with other species
The worm hole aliens didn't massacre the first Dominion fleet. In star trek online it shows that they simply delayed their arrival until after the war.
In STO: Nagus Rom managed to get Fereginar to finance the funds needed to restore Cardassia.
Interesting note about the die off of SF's peacetime officers and the rise of of militant ones. Makes the Picard series SF more plausible
i hate that in ST Picard they just never said a word about the war. I mean, it was the biggest war starfleet ever fought and even after 20 years have past - there should be still a lot of problems and planets in ruins because there where billions of deaths. Even Starfleet had changed and no one ever lost a word about this new militaristic way. There is a lot of context they have to explain in Season 2. Just look at the federation fleet at the end of Picard. Pure Military Vessels with just three types of ships - how a war fleet would act.
The Dominion War did to the Federation what the World Wars did to the United States: it forced an idealistic, young, and largely demilitarized nation to develop and flex its martial muscles.
In doing so, that idealist nation died (or grew up/became disillusioned, depending on how you look at it), and was replaced by a thoroughly militarized society and economy.
I'd really like to see a Star Trek Series that's written by the writers of TNG and DS9 (No Discovery or Picard writers) set two hundred years after the Dominion War that hints heavily at what happened to the Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta quadrant powers and civilizations. Perhaps a series in which Benjamin Sisko has finally been released by the Prophet's and they slowed his aging process, but didn't stop it completely.
Mario Chalmers. Classic and Iconic.
“A question we’ll never see discussed I. Picard - I’m absolutely sure.” Well that didn’t age well 🤣
is there a part 2 as this seams to of ended abruptly
If there's one thing that can be said about this war, it's that it gave the Cardassians a big piece of humble pie.
Gowron wasn’t an idiot per se. He let his pride and ego get in the way of being an effective leader.
So we had the Earth/Romulan War, The first war with the Klingons around the TOS timeframe, The Second Klingon War during DS9, The Borg, but it took the Dominion to finally make the Federation see the light about galactic threats enough to create a true defense force?
I mean the Klingons shed some much blood and materials for the war, possibly even more than starfleet, so them getting something for that commitment seems reasonable, even if amoral.
I think it Ben Sisko scanning the species entering or exit the wormhole !
Lets see your passport!
Than He's no longer the Emmissary of the Prophets by now, but the Guardian of Bajor. Than in Bajoran Religion, He's a god by now and a true one as he really exist. Interesting thought. That would make Kira Nerris the one Bajoran, which has the closest relation to that actual God.... I see a spiritual career for her.
Thank god for Lower Decks showing that at least some parts of Starfleet still focus on exploration and first and second contact missions rather than purely military operations.
8:15, Starfleet’s command structure being replaced by warhawks due to death.
Seeing how the entire timeline (STD, TOS, TAS, etc) played out... Does Kirk’s generation of warhawks begin the golden age of discovery?