@thelasthallow The 6510 in the C64 can address a maximum of 64K, but the RAM expansion has a DMA and can chunk data into and out of that 64K from the 16Mb at a byte per cycle. That's what this is doing, "loading" each frame from expansion RAM.
To those saying "Fake"... "fake" from a "could someone have done this with the hardware for a C64 available to 99.9999% of people in 1985?" Probably not. And that isn't really the point. Yes there are some post "C64-era" additions to make this happen, but, the core equipment running to generate it is still the C64. It is kind of like Ms. Pac Man vs. Pac Man on the Atari 2600... someone COULD have made the original Pac Man look like Ms. Pac Man on 2600, which along with making an actually playable E.T. game, might have staved off the VG crash of 1983. Sloppiness and lack of imagination at a certain timepoint doesn't mean something couldn't have been done at an earlier point in history... the people to make it happen just were not there yet.
@kelli217 Yes I have ... ;-) But RAMLink was not manufactured by Commodore (fan made by CMD). The only original expansion i remember was 256KB that came out around 1987. Cheers ;-)
It uses a serial connection, it works in a different way to RAM. In a serial connection you ( basically ) just keep asking the drive for the next byte of the file and drop in in the next space. You can ask the drive to page 256 bytes of data at a time.... 254 of those bytes are actual data and the other two point to the next part of the file it is a part of.
No, I am not forgetting that, what I am doing is answering the debate about whether you can write code for the 64 in which the 6502 runs a video CODEC which updates the bitmap buffer at 50Hz by performing a block image transfer itself, which you cannot and if you disagree then by all means produce the code which does it.
Crossbow, you still happen to amaze.. even years after all the prime time of c64 is gone ;) maybe c64 including yourself just got immortal for unending coolness!
So... you take a sequence of IFLI images, use the REU's DMA and MMU to page-flip through them at 30Hz, and you have enough CPU left over for a SIDplayer routine. Somebody let me know when they've figured out how to cram this in with the 7-bit 15kHz PWM sample playback method outlined in C= Hacking 20 and 21. :D
As I far as I understand, the CPU is free of most work because the REU is directly accessing the video RAM. So it's no wonder they can add music and other fx
@@saganandroid4175 Interlaced flexible line interpretattion - its a trick you can use on the c64 to make it display higher resolution images with more detailed color . Its rather technical so id look it up if you want to know more. People still discover clever and impossible .things on this nearly 40yr old computer.
To return to my point: The 6510 in the 64 cannot re-write a full bitmap screen at 50Hz. It can be page flipped with the VIC but the 6502 is only capable of moving about 2 or 3 k of data through RAM at 50Hz.
That's some truly superfly video encoding to get it to look that good within the standard 64 hardware. I didn't think it had the colour resolution to be able to do this. Either you'd have to lose a load of colour, or drop the rez, and that's definitely higher than 160x200...
The resolution is still 320 x 200. It's the color which is tweaked by software (improving the native mode) and fast swapping between images (to the eye it looks like a color blending) which are instantly fed into the video chip by the external REU
i can,t believe that this all becomes possible in 4bit 16colors,cuzz today we need 64bit billions od colors to get perfect video. it,s just simply amezing i bet this can also be done on a nes
Great C64 rendition of this intro! I'd love to see this done with the intro to Newhart. Mancini would sound great on the SID. Oh, and the original intro to Wings, too!
And if you're making comments like this one: "No words about block transfers with the 6510 (which makes no sense on a standard C64, as it has the VIC)". We're going to have to sit here for a very long time before you're up to speed whilst I teach you the basics of programming: Blit functions can be written in software and have existed in hardware since the VAX PDP-10 in 1966. Most scroll code on the '64 uses strings of block transfers in 6510. There you've got your argument now, feel better?
mh... so technically, it will be possible to watch a full movie with a bit of tweak if you install the sd expansion, p.e. It has a surprisingly good quality
I owe you nothing. You came here, claiming you know exactly how this works, but your C64 knowledge (as good as it might have been) is from the 1980s. Many new techniques and tricks were discovered since then. You also didn't know the first rule: "Don't question Crossbow, he knows his shit".
Not unless you build us a computer that converts 12.5 NUFLI frames per second, which even the fastest PCs today aren't nearly capable of! ;-) If you want full movies, i suggest videostreaming via network using a char-based method (or bitmap if your network interface supports DMA) and a PC with ffmpeg (a64 output module, specifically made for c64 video!) on the other side...
..and also the fact you have made two technical errors since we started talking: I'm not the one who said anything about 5fps, I wasn't debating anything about the REU and my program displays an X not a club.
Nice! :) How much video can you pack with that in a normal C64 (including loader, player, sound etc.) and how long dows it load on a 1541-II ( or with Dreamload for example)?
Yep, that checks out. Hmmm, interesting, well, assuming you are him then you're a legend and your programs have been baffling people with their technical skill for years. SO well done, if you don't mind me saying so! : )
Saving this on REAL 5.25"-Floppies ... let's see - 170 KB every side - Speed: 40 Bytes/Second - I guess 5 MB Video size Disks: 5,000,000 Bytes / (2 Sidesx170,000 Bytes per Disk) = 15 Disks (double sided!) Time to load Video: 5,000,000 Bytes / 40 Bytes per Second = 125000 Seconds = 34 Hours .......... Take a video tape instead !!
Don't listen to YouRolandTube, I can tell you matter of factly he is wrong. The 64 is capable of flipping the 8k bitmaps in memory even faster than 50Hz, it can also scroll them using VIC tricks, but the 1Mhz 6510 cannot redraw an 8k bitmap at 50Hz.
No, because I have no way of verifying you were the author and a lot of people talk a lot of bull with the help of google, wikipedia, etc. It woudln't prove anything. Let's start easy with my firing off something very simple from the top of my head and you telling me what it does. Not what the instructions mean, but what it actually does. Here you are.. SEI LDA #$58 LDX #$04 LOOP STA $0400,X DEX BPL LOOP CLI RTS
Well I apologise for doubting you Mr Crossbow. My excuse is, well, you know how many fakes appear on RUclips? And how many people want to come on and show off their new found fact they just read on Wikipedia five minutes before to start arguments about it? And the ones who read a few documents on rendering and suddenly think they're a technical expert and nobody else could know as much as they do? It happens too often.
Wow... is this seriously sticking within a(n expanded-RAM) 64's capabilities rather than being just a regular video cleverly processed in Avisynth or similar? It looks like there's too many colours too close together even for something like NUFLI, but then, as it's video, it's so hard to actually tell. Maybe there isn't. Especially as it's been converted from a rather fuzzy, wibbly-colour NTSC source, and MPG itself uses arguably similar colour-smushing tricks...
Since the screen physics is a key to the color blending effect in this technique, you have to shoot the TV with an external camera which could be fooled as human eye is. Otherwise, the effect is ruined
320 x 200 in 2 color per 8x8 cell as native mode. Software tweaked up to 3 colors per 8x2 cell. Add fast image swapping to blend the colors and fool the eye and you've got it. A big fast RAM expansion is required, tho.
It runs on the original 6510. 0.985 MHz. I'm assuming a PAL C64. The NTSC one runs at 1.02 MHz. Not that the little difference in clock frequency would matter a whole lot.
You can't adress that like native RAM on a 8-bit machine. I could imagine some device in the cartridge slot that serves paged RAM blocks like a framebuffer...
Right so you're still likely to be trying to mislead me into thinking your the author. You would have said "Yes", but that would have been a lie, right? It says James Cameron in the Alien films, but if I call myself James and upload a bit of video showing his name it doesn't make me him, right? So, any kind of code I write in this box will be easy for you to decode, yeah?
While this images are impressive in 16 dithered colors,but at the other hand a crt can only produce 3 color pixels atonce,but those light beams strikes the fosfor soo fast (61000 times per second) you will see an entire frame or frames atonce because our eyes are slow,and it can only produce 3 colors atonce but since those fosfor grills are so small and we sitting from a distance from tje tv,we see 16million colors because our eyes blurring those 3 color pixels together. So our eyes got tricked all the time.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
@thelasthallow The 6510 in the C64 can address a maximum of 64K, but the RAM expansion has a DMA and can chunk data into and out of that 64K from the 16Mb at a byte per cycle. That's what this is doing, "loading" each frame from expansion RAM.
Imagine if this played back in the day before the adventure game by Datasoft, The Dallas Quest started. 😍
insert disk #70
Now I want to see the Knight Rider intro on C64. And what would also be awesome, a few Commodore 64 commercials ON the C64.
That quality looks better than my internet connection speed quality lol
To those saying "Fake"... "fake" from a "could someone have done this with the hardware for a C64 available to 99.9999% of people in 1985?" Probably not.
And that isn't really the point. Yes there are some post "C64-era" additions to make this happen, but, the core equipment running to generate it is still the C64.
It is kind of like Ms. Pac Man vs. Pac Man on the Atari 2600... someone COULD have made the original Pac Man look like Ms. Pac Man on 2600, which along with making an actually playable E.T. game, might have staved off the VG crash of 1983.
Sloppiness and lack of imagination at a certain timepoint doesn't mean something couldn't have been done at an earlier point in history... the people to make it happen just were not there yet.
Amazing stuff for such low memories and specs its just amazing if u come to think of it
This is insanely impressive!
Super Commodore 64.
@kelli217 Yes I have ... ;-) But RAMLink was not manufactured by Commodore (fan made by CMD). The only original expansion i remember was 256KB that came out around 1987. Cheers ;-)
It uses a serial connection, it works in a different way to RAM. In a serial connection you ( basically ) just keep asking the drive for the next byte of the file and drop in in the next space. You can ask the drive to page 256 bytes of data at a time.... 254 of those bytes are actual data and the other two point to the next part of the file it is a part of.
best of eighties finally together :)
No, I am not forgetting that, what I am doing is answering the debate about whether you can write code for the 64 in which the 6502 runs a video CODEC which updates the bitmap buffer at 50Hz by performing a block image transfer itself, which you cannot and if you disagree then by all means produce the code which does it.
I always wanted a 1750 or 1764 expansion module.
I think playing the Jean Nate After Bath Splash commercial on a Commodore C64 Video Player is something to try.
Crossbow, you still happen to amaze.. even years after all the prime time of c64 is gone ;)
maybe c64 including yourself just got immortal for unending coolness!
So... you take a sequence of IFLI images, use the REU's DMA and MMU to page-flip through them at 30Hz, and you have enough CPU left over for a SIDplayer routine.
Somebody let me know when they've figured out how to cram this in with the 7-bit 15kHz PWM sample playback method outlined in C= Hacking 20 and 21. :D
As I far as I understand, the CPU is free of most work because the REU is directly accessing the video RAM. So it's no wonder they can add music and other fx
What's IFLI?
@@saganandroid4175 Interlaced flexible line interpretattion - its a trick you can use on the c64 to make it display higher resolution images with more detailed color . Its rather technical so id look it up if you want to know more. People still discover clever and impossible .things on this nearly 40yr old computer.
I always knew that 320x200 at 16 colors (equivalent to early EGA) could be impressive, if programmed properly (y)
They were beautiful both of all
Wrong chord progression--it should go I-IV-I-I-I-I-bVII-V, not I-IV-I-IV-I-IV-I-IV-V
and the composer's name is spelled wrong.
haha yes
To return to my point: The 6510 in the 64 cannot re-write a full bitmap screen at 50Hz. It can be page flipped with the VIC but the 6502 is only capable of moving about 2 or 3 k of data through RAM at 50Hz.
That video quality is better than anything I have seen on the Sega Mega CD.The funny thing is , the C64 is only an 8-bit system.
Wow...all the people on here saying this is fake. They did not read the description.
Crest rules, so does our beloved C64, the best computer ever made. \O/
You have obviously no idea what you're talking about. The CPU is not redrawing the bitmap, but the DMA chip in the REU is copying in the new frame.
@mspenprice, this is a crappy encoding of the video that blurs it a lot.
the 'original' made heavy use of dithering.
16 MB ram in a C64? im not sure but i thought i read somewhere saying that the CPU in the C64 couldn't address that much memory?
Welcome to the wonderful world of bank switching chunks of 64KB in and out of view when you need them...
its important to point out that the cartridge is doing the actual graphic processing.
That's some truly superfly video encoding to get it to look that good within the standard 64 hardware. I didn't think it had the colour resolution to be able to do this. Either you'd have to lose a load of colour, or drop the rez, and that's definitely higher than 160x200...
The resolution is still 320 x 200. It's the color which is tweaked by software (improving the native mode) and fast swapping between images (to the eye it looks like a color blending) which are instantly fed into the video chip by the external REU
i can,t believe that this all becomes possible in 4bit 16colors,cuzz today we need 64bit billions od colors to get perfect video.
it,s just simply amezing i bet this can also be done on a nes
Looks better than Sega CD video.
The only C64 thing PRESENT in this video IS THE SOUND
I understand what you mean, the c64 can't do video, let alone full screen and so fluid.
ha, a 386 PC would struggle to do this.
It is a Commodore 64 with s 16MB REU expansion. So yes it's really a C64.
@@pelgervampireduck
It works in the vice emulator with 16MB REU enabled.
LOOOOOOOOL.
Its so funny seeing the intro with the sid playing, haha.]
I need to order me a 1541u.
Unfortunately it requires 16MB of RAM
The REU was super expensive back in the days. I think you can get one now for hmm. €40-50.
Great C64 rendition of this intro! I'd love to see this done with the intro to Newhart. Mancini would sound great on the SID. Oh, and the original intro to Wings, too!
@HydraSR It uses a 16MB REU (Ram Expansion Unit)
Well, that settles it, time to get a C64 DVR
BTW,
please do the A-Team intro next!
Oh my... Unbelievable !
And if you're making comments like this one:
"No words about block transfers with the 6510 (which makes no sense on a standard C64, as it has the VIC)".
We're going to have to sit here for a very long time before you're up to speed whilst I teach you the basics of programming: Blit functions can be written in software and have existed in hardware since the VAX PDP-10 in 1966.
Most scroll code on the '64 uses strings of block transfers in 6510.
There you've got your argument now, feel better?
Was the embedded in ice for the duration!
mh... so technically, it will be possible to watch a full movie with a bit of tweak if you install the sd expansion, p.e. It has a surprisingly good quality
I owe you nothing. You came here, claiming you know exactly how this works, but your C64 knowledge (as good as it might have been) is from the 1980s. Many new techniques and tricks were discovered since then. You also didn't know the first rule: "Don't question Crossbow, he knows his shit".
Not unless you build us a computer that converts 12.5 NUFLI frames per second, which even the fastest PCs today aren't nearly capable of! ;-)
If you want full movies, i suggest videostreaming via network using a char-based method (or bitmap if your network interface supports DMA) and a PC with ffmpeg (a64 output module, specifically made for c64 video!) on the other side...
This is ridiculous...ly awesome :D
Incredible
Any computer can do it given enough memory. This particular computer has 16MB of memory through an expansion module. So yeah, this is real.
If I wanted to load this on my C64 with REU, how many floppy disks would I require?
On 1MHz !
Hahahhaah. AWESOME.
There Is Something With Class Music That Just Feels Me With Nostalgic Happyness.
64K ought to be enough for everyone!
I love the SID adaptation of the theme song, is it available in a sid or ogg file or something?
1 mhz overkill
The music sounds.....different.
Very mature.
..and also the fact you have made two technical errors since we started talking: I'm not the one who said anything about 5fps, I wasn't debating anything about the REU and my program displays an X not a club.
have you tried to play video on Z80/A
Ha. I was actually about to say this looks like a grainy Sega CD video before I saw this comment. About the same quality.
Yep.... I'm wrong. I apologise for My mistake! ; )
Amazing!!
This was ripped and taken from Trod channel.
With that being said i do believe it's the C64.
The 8 bit cpu of C64 can not adress 16mb of ram, this is fake as hell.
They used a bank switched cartridge.
Where can I download disk image (rom)? it is possible run this demo on emulator?
Cool!
At a guess, I'd say about a hundred? 16MB into 160kb?
Nice! :)
How much video can you pack with that in a normal C64 (including loader, player, sound etc.) and how long dows it load on a 1541-II ( or with Dreamload for example)?
Yep, that checks out. Hmmm, interesting, well, assuming you are him then you're a legend and your programs have been baffling people with their technical skill for years. SO well done, if you don't mind me saying so! : )
how is that done pls i wanna know
From all the movies in the world.... why TF this one?
I think color palette of C64 is put to quite good use here.
Cause the creator love Charlene Tilton ? :D
Maybe because it was one of the most popular shows in the 80's when the C64 came out, and the creator thought was appropriate?
Yes, that's correct! Thanks for that localhbci. : )
i believe this is real bcoz i have knight rider intro :)
Cool! Where can I download the demo? I would like to test it on my C-64 with the Ultimate II+ cartridge.
www.forum64.de/index.php?dereferer/&ref=aHR0cCUzQS8vZGFkZGxlci10LWwuZGUvZG93bmxvYWRzL0M2NF8xNTQxVV9OdXZpZV9EYWxsYXMuemlw
16MB ram how? 6502 would be able to address like 1MB?
16 MB are in the REU and it copies them on request into the main memory.
I gotta test this on my real C64. My 1541 Ultimate can emulate a REU. Please link the disk image(s).
Saving this on REAL 5.25"-Floppies ... let's see
- 170 KB every side
- Speed: 40 Bytes/Second
- I guess 5 MB Video size
Disks: 5,000,000 Bytes / (2 Sidesx170,000 Bytes per Disk) = 15 Disks (double sided!)
Time to load Video: 5,000,000 Bytes / 40 Bytes per Second = 125000 Seconds = 34 Hours ..........
Take a video tape instead !!
...or just use CMD's 3.5 inch disks or hard drives instead...
I wonder whether this video used FLI mode.
@tribeofthesun
What Framerate?
Is this available for download.....or is it actually fake?
Don't listen to YouRolandTube, I can tell you matter of factly he is wrong. The 64 is capable of flipping the 8k bitmaps in memory even faster than 50Hz, it can also scroll them using VIC tricks, but the 1Mhz 6510 cannot redraw an 8k bitmap at 50Hz.
C64 with 16MB RAM????
It must have taken ages to load this thing :p
1MB/s? :D How can you address 16MB with 8/16 bit instructions? 4KB bank switching?
:D awesome!
Can this be done with a clip from Family Guy to see how it looks?
What does the gameplay look like?
No, because I have no way of verifying you were the author and a lot of people talk a lot of bull with the help of google, wikipedia, etc. It woudln't prove anything. Let's start easy with my firing off something very simple from the top of my head and you telling me what it does. Not what the instructions mean, but what it actually does. Here you are..
SEI
LDA #$58
LDX #$04
LOOP STA $0400,X
DEX
BPL LOOP
CLI
RTS
So, you're claiming to be Crossbow of Crest? Right?
Well I apologise for doubting you Mr Crossbow. My excuse is, well, you know how many fakes appear on RUclips? And how many people want to come on and show off their new found fact they just read on Wikipedia five minutes before to start arguments about it? And the ones who read a few documents on rendering and suddenly think they're a technical expert and nobody else could know as much as they do? It happens too often.
Wow... is this seriously sticking within a(n expanded-RAM) 64's capabilities rather than being just a regular video cleverly processed in Avisynth or similar? It looks like there's too many colours too close together even for something like NUFLI, but then, as it's video, it's so hard to actually tell. Maybe there isn't. Especially as it's been converted from a rather fuzzy, wibbly-colour NTSC source, and MPG itself uses arguably similar colour-smushing tricks...
Since the screen physics is a key to the color blending effect in this technique, you have to shoot the TV with an external camera which could be fooled as human eye is. Otherwise, the effect is ruined
C64 has no real 320x200 resolution is color mode .
320 x 200 in 2 color per 8x8 cell as native mode. Software tweaked up to 3 colors per 8x2 cell. Add fast image swapping to blend the colors and fool the eye and you've got it. A big fast RAM expansion is required, tho.
Just pageflipping?
16MB ram :-O ?
SuperCPU?
It runs on the original 6510. 0.985 MHz. I'm assuming a PAL C64. The NTSC one runs at 1.02 MHz. Not that the little difference in clock frequency would matter a whole lot.
@@cliffharaldjallamekk9845 You are saying this video is running on stock C64?
@@Corsa15DT you need the good old Commodore REU (converted to 16MB) or newly developed hardware or emulation
@@chris-do i find it difficult to believe the 6502 can move all those pixels that fast with only 1 mhz..
@@Corsa15DT It does need the extra of memory to manage. 1764 REU. But the rest of the system runs on standard hardware.
Coool stufffff, but some major errors in the music arrangement.
16MB RAM.........WTF!
You can't adress that like native RAM on a 8-bit machine.
I could imagine some device in the cartridge slot that serves paged RAM blocks like a framebuffer...
chords are wrong
Right so you're still likely to be trying to mislead me into thinking your the author. You would have said "Yes", but that would have been a lie, right? It says James Cameron in the Alien films, but if I call myself James and upload a bit of video showing his name it doesn't make me him, right? So, any kind of code I write in this box will be easy for you to decode, yeah?
J.R. WILL SHOOT HIMSELF IN THE END!
How could this be done on a real C64?
1541 U2+
Can i download this as a *.D64 File??? ;) ;)
mmmm..but with c64???really???
The bass is still totally wrong. :-)
While this images are impressive in 16 dithered colors,but at the other hand a crt can only produce 3 color pixels atonce,but those light beams strikes the fosfor soo fast (61000 times per second) you will see an entire frame or frames atonce because our eyes are slow,and it can only produce 3 colors atonce but since those fosfor grills are so small and we sitting from a distance from tje tv,we see 16million colors because our eyes blurring those 3 color pixels together.
So our eyes got tricked all the time.