I think the reason more people who are not interested at all in cargo hauling are complaining about this than big changes to other loops is because cargo touches nearly every single loop in the game to some extent, and will touch every part of the game with the fully realized game. The difference between these cargo updates, and say mining refactor, is that you don’t really touch mining unless you want to mine but whether you mine, salvage, or do bounty hunting you are highly likely having to interact with these changes. I love the changes by the way! I’m definitely not complaining, but just had an interesting observation.
I agree it hits all gameplay loops and 100% think CIG needs to allow the autoload option for every cargo option in addition to the manual way. This will help make all types of players happy in my view.
While I agree, the difference in moving a few mining bags from your prospector or a few boxes from your vulture is night and day from a purpose built large hauler imo. Looting, on the other hand, doesn't seem to much different to me. Just remove armor from the bodies then drag into a storage box!
@@SpaceTomato oh absolutely! I just think we are hearing more people complain about the cargo update because cargo is so widespread, whereas previous game changing updates for more niche systems like mining were comparatively glossed over because they are self-contained within their loop. There are also definitely varying degrees to which cargo currently affects different loops for sure.
Cargo hauling is pure satisfaction for me. I came back from an 8 hour shift moving boxes irl to move boxes in jumptown ingame and i had alot more fun doing that than irl Stuff XD. I would say, let logi players do their thing and we'll let you do yours.
I think cargo hauling will have a more economic role when base building comes in too. The way I see it, large orgs will practically build their own cities over time and that upkeep will require a steady flow of construction materials and other resources. The idea I have is orgs actually putting out their own contracts for hauls of materials thus creating an organic feel to the economy with an actual supply and demand aspect
I find the hauling missions stupidly satisfying. No idea why, but grabbing multiple parallel jobs (despite having to scroll through way too many irrelevant missions: filters, please) is super fun
@@arrisan8283 yes, and then discover that the cargo grid is full of bugs like on the Titan where one of the positions just won't snap if the others are filled. But yeah, even considering a Hull-A now, just to try it
I dont think people understand the joy I have when me and other haulers are just doin our contracts at distribution centers, truly the space trucking experience of all time
It's made for me! Filling up a big cargo hold with boxes is just so satisfying. It is relaxing to do and a nice change of pace from doing space and FPS combat missions. I love playing as a space trucker. This level of simulation is what Star Citizen has been about since the very beginning.
I got into this game over a decade ago after seeing the Freelancer commercial. That was the life I wanted in game. For all of 3.23 I dreaded the idea of having to move all of the boxes with a tractor beam or paying to have it done for me. I figured I would spend less of my play time hauling cargo and more time doing bounties. But after a few cargo runs and a few tries at the new cargo missions, I realized just how much more immersed I felt. Sure, it takes longer so I don't earn as much aUEC per hour but my enjoyment has increased.
@@Ryecrash617 this. People thing it's going to be horrible when they start adding more of the first person sim elements, but then they try them and find out they actually kind of like it. This is why I'm not worried about hygiene or bathroom gameplay, it's something we'll all need to do and it'll just be that much more satisfying of an experience
@@Venhili I understand the points people make about time sinks, I have two kids and no time to play really, but from a gameplay POV having loose cargo is what will lead to unscripted events that will make this game unique. Pirating is just one example, but finding someone else's crashed ship and being able to strip it for parts will be epic
I'm a bit late to the party, but just got back into SC after CitizenCon and fell in love with hauling. It's quite satisfying to (over)fill a small cutter to the maximum! :D
I've unironically wanted a solid cargo hauling loop since I backed in 2016. This is my jam, despite the weird edge cases. I'm looking forward to the mining & refinery updates to really make use of these new mechanics. Could definitely use a cargo manifest function in the mobiglass though. I'm finding myself taking notes on a scratchpad on what I have, where it is in my ship, and where it needs to go.
I LOVE the idea of chaining hauling missions together and piecing a route together, etc. I've just not been able to do it ONCE because every time, I've either been DCd in the middle, randomly just respawned somewhere on the other side of the system, blown to bits by glitching boxes, or unable to move boxes that seem superglued to the floor of my ship. I'm super patient with this game but I had to step away for a bit until they work all this out.
Not only is it a fun and relaxing way to play the game (kind like playing truck sims and such), its also how they make physical cargo important. Those are KEY component for the pirate gameplay... And if the game delivers on risky trade route, varied cargo type and fluid economy... Yeah those are fun things to toy with in a space sim. This is not a space battle sim or a pirate sim !
I agree its a space sim. I want to spend more time in space. Right now i spend 10 minutes loading and unloading cargo and maybe 5 minutes flying my ship. This to me isnt fun because im spending most of my time in the hangar. I also dont find it relaxing at all, especially with the threat of piracy when unloading. I think a lot of us who pledged to the 'ultimate space sim' didnt have menial labor tasks like loading, eating, drinking, and waiting around in mind.
I think people mis understand the hauling missions, in my opinion cargo hauling is accepting multiple contracts from one location let’s say that’s 300 Scu of cargo then deliver it. Not accept one mission and then go from A -B and back to A hauling is for massive ships atm
The problem I have with them right now is there is essentially zero benefit to repping up. I finally made it to "Member" and the hauls are the same size, the crates still limited to 8scu, the pay the same. The only noticeable different is there are a few jobs that pay a TINY bit more but require more stops. The system doesn't pay more for ranking up, it doesn't give you bigger jobs, or bigger crates. In general you don't get any more pay for doing larger jobs versus smaller jobs and the amount of containers you move per job are about the same regardless of total SCU. You might as well just stack small jobs all day long and not care about rep.
Agreed, even more when you notice sometime some mission ask you to deliver crate at a certain place who offer a mission to pick other and thus creating without realising complex delivrery route
I want to load, offload cargo, check in with station management to sell said cargo, smuggle contraband physiocally hidden in the ducts of my ship. I want to move my boxes into my small ship, pay NPC's to mvoe cargo itno my large ships while i manage my routes/fuel costs/ship repairs ect. This gameplay is made for me.
This and let me treat my ships power & flight systems like i'm playing My Summer Car and i'll spend hours rebuilding my ships engine and moving boxes around.
ally like the cargo hauling. it pairs so well the salvage i enjoy. i can build up alot of rmc at a station with my vulture. then i get to take a big haul in my c-1 spirit to new babbage to sale for a big payday. very satisfying.😁👍
Anyone who does piracy has been interacting with this gameplay loop since cargo was physicallized. For the first time, cargo haulers get to experience as much cargo gameplay as pirates 😂
Making everything physicalized is a good step in the direction of having NPCs onboard and making that work viable, where time also makes sense during these activities. Or should we say where we sum it all up into one word, Chris Roberts mantra "IMMERSION", which is the goal in any game, where you forget time and become the player and enjoy yourself to the fullest. Cargo hauling is just one aspect which is logical to have in a game like this.
I played Freelacer for like 10+ years, and never even 1 time did I think "man I wish i could personally load all of these boxes onto my transport ship"
As a space trucker I don't see any problem with the cargo loop. It doesn't take long either especially since they released the ATLS (I know it's a pledge) for loading and unloading it takes me a minute max per 50 scu. I do however want to see more variety when it comes to the packages themselves or what we're shipping. Otherwise, it's smooth 👍
This Citizencon will be mainly SQ42 I think, server meshing and hopefully a closer look into Quanta that comes in on your blind side to mesmerize everyone where it just works. I just love innovation and technological leaps, which the industry lacks allround where CIG wants to look the best fidelity wise, BUT CIG also want seamless immersion on a insane scale, in a true MMO with DESTRUCTION all crammed into one. Try finding that in any other games now or coming the next 10 years, there are none. Fasten your seatbelts, this ride is epic!
The critics are always the loudest. I absolutely love this cargo gameplay. I wouldn't have normally said anything if I didn't hear that there are a lot of people who don't like it and I'm like well. I better speak up too.
Last time I tried commodity trading (a week ago), the TDD couldn't detect my cargo unless it was on my ship, at which point I had to go back to my ship and offload it onto the freight elevator. But I never got paid.
12:29 I'm not sure what this image is showing but I don't know if it's right or not. On the SC page, the cargo capacities of the hull series are the following: - Hull A: 64 SCU - Hull B: 384 SCU - Hull C: 4608 SCU - Hull D: 20736 SCU - Hull E: 98304 SCU Honestly I have no idea how humans will be able to load and unload the Hull D in a reasonable amount of time, let alone the Hull E.
Plotting out cargo runs, shifting boxes, hopping from place to place... The only thing that'd improve it for me would be a copilot to help move crates and man the turrets on my C2.
You know it’s funny cargo running on paper sounds boring but I have so much fun doing it. I take 5-6 30k missions and fly around the verse. It’s really relaxing.
Star Citizen is an experiment, that giving us the dream to travel through space without limits, and for it have 12 out of 10 from me, regardless the gameplay. And so the Starfield.
What almost forgotten is cargo logistics is going to affect *EVERYTHING*, ever more the bigger it gets. Big player orgs are going to need fuel, parts and ammo moved and stored to where their activities are happening. I could see my friends and I hovering around conflict zones as a war profiteer, with a cargo bay of ammo and common spare parts, and a smaller medivac ship to pull people out of danger and have the goods on-hand to get them back into the fight faster than returning to a city or base and fully restocking... for a fee.
I actually like the cargo system's progress so far. Mostly if I decide I want to go from Area 18 to New Babbage, for example, I find a contract along that route and make a little money on the way. I just wish that when you get a contract to move 90 SCU of quartz, it wasn't 90 single SCU boxes.
I've only got a Drake Cutter. I loved trading in Elite, I loved evading bounty hunters, I bought SC late last year and I just struggle with it. I usually just end up dying from something silly, like a bug.
My biggest complaint is the sizes of the missions. It goes from, say, 10 to 20 scu on the small missions, and jumps straight to 80+ in the medium missions. Considering the sizes of the Spirit and Hull A, the obvious next step up in size of ships, the medium missions should be >64scu
They jsut need to balance time taken to laod-unload vs reward, if the time you put into the hauling missions/tradding is worth the reward then i think it will be perfectly fine, some people like the relaxing gameplay of loading un,loading boxes and hauling them around in space. Plus there will always be the option of buying a service fee to have it done automatically, it will just eat into your profit a bit. Thats why i think it needs to be balanced for these reasons and if that happens i think it will be great, for those that want to unload/load and for those that dont.
I like the cargo loading but I learned something new from you! Have a buddy help complete the cargo missions? Didn't think that works, but nice! I think as a beginner, the self loading is a nice time sink, but later, I can see how tedious it would be and require cargo services. Can have missions where randomly if you do it manually you have a chance at a bonus cargo box or a rare item(s) found in the elevator. Be honest and turn in for a reward, or keep at the risk of getting caught.
Moving things around a dock or warehouse is pretty boring. Playing tetris with it in the hold is potentially more interesting and fun. Suggestion: Have the cargo crates and things that are shaped even more oddly than just boxes get placed by a conveyor, elevator, bots or some other automated mechanic directly at the ramp of the ship and then the player can quickly and easily grab them to then fit the items into their hold as efficiently as they want. If the player doesn't feel like or not interested then just toss it in without worrying about wasted space and the items will autolock in various spots. There's even an automated tractor beam for this. Faster but leaves more wasted space. So efficient in time but inefficient in space used. If the player likes the idea of being efficient and playing tetris to squeeze as much in as possible then they can take the time to do so. Key is to eliminate the boring walking back and forth from some distant point in another room to the ship to move the cargo around the facility (and that's not generally the job of the trucker who generally load things on/off their truck but then facility workers move it around the facility).That is very quickly very tedious and takes no little thought or skill from the player. It's just a time sink. The real potential fun and interesting action is fitting it into the hold (especially if there are configurations that are oddly-shaped and larger and present potential inefficiencies in space used that have to be thought through and worked around by the player). TLDR: Emphasize the tetris game of placing the items into the hold. De-emphasize playing as a conveyor belt to get the items to the ship ramp. Give players an automated hold filling tech that saves on time but loses on space efficiency.
If it's part of a quest chain I'll do any game loop and would love to do it. But I'm not interested in any industrial game loop as my main type of game play so I don't care too much on how it's implemented. I am happy it's all in the game, as it fills up a living galaxy as you would expect.
Thanks Tomato! I'm not a fan of throwing boxes though that footage of the Clipper's new arm tractorbeam has caused me enough pause to reconsider. Overall, the whole evolution has been and continues to be a lot of fun to play through.
I have no problem with the physicalized cargo handling and actually liked it when I got it to work. My problem is with how our tools work and the logistics of everything. Go to ANY freight hauling company. Now go to one of their warehouses. You will never see a semi backed up to their doors with a 30 degree ramp into the trailer. That is just stupid. And the new ATLS just emphasizes this problem since there is no line of sight to place boxes so you have to move the boxes from the corner of the hangar to the back of the ship. Then go inside the ship and pull the boxes into the cargo hold. The freight elevator off in the corner instead of that giant space in the middle of the back of the hangar is so dumb also. Make it so that there are 2 elevators and not cattycorner from each other. Put one on the end, and one in the middle of the side. Then if you are not going to give us dock height landing pads, make the elevator stop above ground level with a simple staircase or ladder up to it so we can load straight into our ships.
Ok, so several points having been attempting to engage with this patch and hauling cargo as I don't mind space trucking 1) Why is the auto load system related to contract goods not implemented with a countdown time sink if already there for normal cargo? The system was there, so why the layered effort particularly with point 2 2) Why is the atls being charged money? That and the hover thing should just be an object in every instance hangar. Two of each specifically. That was the thing I noticed immediately when trying to handle rookie bulk runs I had for something like 15 or 16 1scu boxes. It gets really tedious. Hell, instead of the hoverboard thing, there is a pair of a version on wheels decorating the hangars already, so clearly modeled, just finish them out and be actionable props like the medical carts. 3) I think it is time CIG starts listing more detailed specs on the cargo holds. Not just how many scu, but how the space is broken down. For example, the zeus cl has 122 scu. That is cool. But it also only stacks 3 high. That is less useful when you get those 2x2x2 8scu boxes for missions. I learned this with my MSR already. 8scu should be doable for a raft, but it is locked to 3x 32scu containers, so how does that work considering it is underslung. Same goes for aurora cls and 1scu containers. I guess for me, it is back to playing other games and waiting for them to complete the freight system before coming back. It adds more work without really adding value with the work. Especially since their answer to help is charging $40 for a hangar prop (they don't have thrusters so can't be used in eva btw)
Addendum - The longshoremen that at work on the East and Gulf coats of the US are currently on strike - the world will soon find out how important of a cog they are to the machine which is global trade. It is ironic that a game like Star Citizen included a commodity trade game loop but incredibility short-sighted as to how important cargo loading efficiency is important to virtual intergalactic trade. Longshoremen make trade possible as ship owner operators do not load their on cargo. Manual and Auto cargo loading should both be available everywhere.
I already hate this I was hauling gold yesterday and after spending over 45mins. loading and unloading it i put it on my elevator to sell I click sell and somehow not only is the gold gone but lit all of my money on my account it makes no sense and it has me not even wanting to play the game anymore. Ive never had issues with cargo until now. And I dont plan on doing cargo anymore if money I dont even spend has a chance of just disappearing into nothing.
Contract hauling sounds good, if it worked and didn't remove reputation, thus having to start over if you haven't been given negative reputation? I've always wanted a hover trolly (suggested to "Game Ideas"), that can carry six crates for P&D mission, go up and down stairs (keeping vertical), into the airlock and around an outpost to gather the crates and move them back to my ship (even as small as a Pisces).
I always wanted to run cargo in Star Citizen but never bothered because I didn't want to fork out hundreds of thousands for measly profits and/or lose it to pirates or bugs/30k's. I wanted to just be an Eddie Stobart driver/pilot (truck hauling company in the UK), collecting someone else's cargo, and shipping it to somewhere else then get paid. I was excited for 3.23, then ultimately 3.24, because I could finally use my Raft and have a good time. I don't mind the manual loading/unloading, it's chill and the game is to be enjoyed, not have profits min-maxed at every turn. Some people want it 'now', and that's ok, but Star Citizen is a slow paced game trying to be authentic (I use the term authentic and not realistic). So long answer short. It's for me. I wanted this. Have wanted it for a while.
Cargo is fun except for the fact that youre rewarded based on rank and not how many boxes you haul. So there is no reason to do a contract with a big load when you can do several contracts with small loads that take up as much space and rewards you the same amount of money per contract. That said, i do like running several jobs at once
I would enjoy running Cargo much, much more if the missions weren't purposely designed to piss off anyone with a Hull A. SCU capacity: 64. Missions: Appx 10 SCU in size 1 boxes, or appx 100SCU in size 8 boxes.
I friggin' love the new cargo gameplay. There are adjustments to be made. Definitely. The ATLS should work more like the multi tool. But that's another issue. But the slow, logistical planning of routes and storing containers in the right order deeply appeals to me. I feel like the Brainiac of Logistics.
@@LarsBahner the ATLS and regular tractor beams are different for a reason, they're intended for different use cases. ATLS is for moving large amounts of cargo quickly, where tractor beams are better for handling sensitive cargo gently so as not to damage it (I know, we don't have that kind of cargo yet, but that's eventually gonna make its way in)
@@Venhili Indeed, but it doesn't work very well. Also the bent tractor beam looks absolutely silly. The old way of working should be the default, then - say - the right mouse button con snap it to the ATLS. The placement should remain the same, because now it is virtually impossible to place a container correctly - if you can see it because the view is blocked by the container.
@@eyeballjellyforbreakfast it's not supposed to be a player controlled economy, it's AI driven, quantum simulation/Starsim will do that. But that's more than just the economy, that is supposed to handle all ai, missions, and economy.
Cargo update is DOPE! More mechanics that allow for more emergent gameplay, which is exactly what I've been encountering lately. I love it, can't wait for more! The only people talking shit about the update are those who talk shit about Star Citizen regardless of what they do. You know, those idiot losers that still call this game a scam.
Great video, T, as always. But with respect, how can you make this awesome video - full of great facts AND opinions - without mentioning that so far, weeks into "THE cargo patch," the cargo elevators don't work so often? Or how you can't drop cargo off at outpost freight elevators, pretty much ever? Or so many other totally non-functioning factors there are related to cargo? I know you said the word "bugs" once or twice but, goodness. The "great cargo patch of 3.24" was little more than "boxes are physicalized and you can lift and lower them, but good luck successfully completing most missions, because more often than not, the backend logistics won't work as soon as the elevator door closes." Just my sour taste towards the patch, not you, Space Tomato. Thanks again for a great video.
Imagine if starship battles weren't simulated like they're in a ozone filled gravitational well. What if you can not only fly straight, but up, down, back, and side to side too. Not only that, but your momentum would be constant because of the lack of drag
Love cargo hauling gameplay idk why people are upset with having to move the boxes manually and stuff hated the auto loading before kept eating my money
i just hope tractor beams are going away, i would love to move massive amount of cargo with trolleys or cranes... For more casual players, valuable but small delivery could be an option ^^ I'm sure there can be enough diversity for everyone in the future !
I've enjoyed the physical cargo hauling so far. Its pretty chill. I've gotten pretty efficient with the ATLS too so loading/unloading time aren't too bad. Definitely not a hop on hop off sort of loop gameplay...
"Who even wants this gameplay?" Well, every single original backer that's been waiting forever for this. We knew what we donated for, unlike those backers of today, expecting to buy into some Destiny/COD hybrid of instant gratification. I fear what impact that horde of casual gamers can have on the future of this game.
Honestly. I thought I wanted it. But I've run five or six cargo missions now, and I (honestly) can't stay awake doing anything larger than a Raft. There's nothing interesting or exciting about it. And for big hauls, if you fuck up the order, you will have to unpack everything and try again. I'm (again, honestly) thinking about melting my cargo ships. I cannot imagine using my Caterpillar at this point.
dawg I just want to fly cool space ships why do they keep adding more and more barriers and challenges to do so. The more time I spend outside of my ship flying around the less fun I'm having
i dont think people understand what all these new systems really mean for the game.. i hate to say 4.0 as some arbitrary goal but these are all systems we need to go from 3.0 - true 4.0 with all the different gameplay loops
"Who even wants this gameplay?" Not me! As a commodities trader in a C2 100% of the time, I do not like the option not to have auto load available at all locations! Some of us live very balanced lives and don't have the time, nor want to spend 30 mins manually loading cargo (i.e. playing with a tractor beam, we rather be flying our ships). From a reality perspective - longshoremen load cargo ships, and have been doing so for centuries. I am 100% sure that profession is never going away.
i dont mind it makes my little cutter useful dont take big hauling jobs due to the amount of boxes i keep it in smaller numbers less time spent in station loading and unloading letting me spend most of my time traveling and actually making money. also i keep a eye on local some dude needed a ride lastnight gave him one and he paid me 500,000 lol its easy and relaxing to make money hauling for me lol
I love this cargo gameplay. I enjoy camping outside the distribution centers in my Eclipse. I wait for players to land, then make them cry when I send them a beautiful torpedo that just turns all their cargo into dust. 😁
Star Citizen players be like: OOOOOOWAAAAA OOOOOOOWWAAAAAA! Seriously. In a game like this, with underdeveloped everything. Steps towards complexity are the exact right thing, even if they aren't the permanent changes. They'll still help towards figuring out what the player base actually wants. I'm still fairly certain though that lots of people (me included) will like all the changes made to hauling.
"it shouldn't be a game built on something promised 10 years ago" The hypocrisy of this statement. These are the very same people who would hold CIG to the fire whenever they do not follow through on what they promised X amount of years ago. This is moving the goal post.
Why punish players that don't want to load stuff manually by paying for it to be loaded? So either you load it yourself and loose time or pay in game and still loose time? Does not make sense. Yes others will enjoy the self loading but so many others just want the cargo to be loaded and fly. People should not be punished for wanting to play a simpler version / manner.
It was expected to me. I've been expecting things to get a lot more hands on and complex since the beginning. Don't get comfortable with anything in an alpha, anything and everything can change before the final product. I don't see it as a punishment. I see it as fully fleshing out the cargo experience.
Why is was even a "drama" 1st it took most of the year patches 2nd it was broken even after so long 3rd even tho it took so long they have to refactor ATC later(will probably break the cargo elevator again) 4th most ships where not made with this cargo system in mind 5th economy is so bad that ppl dont want to play it(currently)
"Who even wants this gameplay?"
MEEEEEEEE, it's all for ME! I have Chris Roberts on speed dial and ask him every day WHERE ARE MY BOXES???
No, its mine.. ALL MINE!!!
Really, I love it- more than mining now- which is saying a lot.
"Where are my boxes Chris? Where are they?!"
Me me me!
For me too.
Can you pass him another message on behalf of the playerbase? 😉
I think the reason more people who are not interested at all in cargo hauling are complaining about this than big changes to other loops is because cargo touches nearly every single loop in the game to some extent, and will touch every part of the game with the fully realized game. The difference between these cargo updates, and say mining refactor, is that you don’t really touch mining unless you want to mine but whether you mine, salvage, or do bounty hunting you are highly likely having to interact with these changes.
I love the changes by the way! I’m definitely not complaining, but just had an interesting observation.
I'm hoping that Chad's intent with auto-loading anything into the cargo hold, not just commodities, will evolve sooner rather than later.
deal with it.
I agree it hits all gameplay loops and 100% think CIG needs to allow the autoload option for every cargo option in addition to the manual way. This will help make all types of players happy in my view.
While I agree, the difference in moving a few mining bags from your prospector or a few boxes from your vulture is night and day from a purpose built large hauler imo.
Looting, on the other hand, doesn't seem to much different to me. Just remove armor from the bodies then drag into a storage box!
@@SpaceTomato oh absolutely! I just think we are hearing more people complain about the cargo update because cargo is so widespread, whereas previous game changing updates for more niche systems like mining were comparatively glossed over because they are self-contained within their loop. There are also definitely varying degrees to which cargo currently affects different loops for sure.
Cargo hauling is pure satisfaction for me. I came back from an 8 hour shift moving boxes irl to move boxes in jumptown ingame and i had alot more fun doing that than irl Stuff XD. I would say, let logi players do their thing and we'll let you do yours.
I think cargo hauling will have a more economic role when base building comes in too. The way I see it, large orgs will practically build their own cities over time and that upkeep will require a steady flow of construction materials and other resources. The idea I have is orgs actually putting out their own contracts for hauls of materials thus creating an organic feel to the economy with an actual supply and demand aspect
I find the hauling missions stupidly satisfying. No idea why, but grabbing multiple parallel jobs (despite having to scroll through way too many irrelevant missions: filters, please) is super fun
We yearn for the trucking life we can't live for real.
Even more satisfying when you reach the perfect number of crate the ship can hold with a perfect road
@@arrisan8283 yes, and then discover that the cargo grid is full of bugs like on the Titan where one of the positions just won't snap if the others are filled. But yeah, even considering a Hull-A now, just to try it
I dont think people understand the joy I have when me and other haulers are just doin our contracts at distribution centers, truly the space trucking experience of all time
It's really nice with a partner. Like salvaging, just relaxing and staying busy.
It's made for me! Filling up a big cargo hold with boxes is just so satisfying. It is relaxing to do and a nice change of pace from doing space and FPS combat missions. I love playing as a space trucker. This level of simulation is what Star Citizen has been about since the very beginning.
I got into this game over a decade ago after seeing the Freelancer commercial. That was the life I wanted in game. For all of 3.23 I dreaded the idea of having to move all of the boxes with a tractor beam or paying to have it done for me. I figured I would spend less of my play time hauling cargo and more time doing bounties. But after a few cargo runs and a few tries at the new cargo missions, I realized just how much more immersed I felt. Sure, it takes longer so I don't earn as much aUEC per hour but my enjoyment has increased.
@@Ryecrash617 this. People thing it's going to be horrible when they start adding more of the first person sim elements, but then they try them and find out they actually kind of like it. This is why I'm not worried about hygiene or bathroom gameplay, it's something we'll all need to do and it'll just be that much more satisfying of an experience
@@Venhili I understand the points people make about time sinks, I have two kids and no time to play really, but from a gameplay POV having loose cargo is what will lead to unscripted events that will make this game unique. Pirating is just one example, but finding someone else's crashed ship and being able to strip it for parts will be epic
I love the moving cargo part, the elevator for items finally let us store ship parts. And move ship parts.
Moving ship components has felt so satisfying
I absolutely LOVE cargo hauling. I enjoy the slow process of loading your ship and how relaxing it is. This is great.
I'm a bit late to the party, but just got back into SC after CitizenCon and fell in love with hauling. It's quite satisfying to (over)fill a small cutter to the maximum! :D
I've unironically wanted a solid cargo hauling loop since I backed in 2016. This is my jam, despite the weird edge cases. I'm looking forward to the mining & refinery updates to really make use of these new mechanics.
Could definitely use a cargo manifest function in the mobiglass though. I'm finding myself taking notes on a scratchpad on what I have, where it is in my ship, and where it needs to go.
That should be on-board on the ship too in an MFD screen, would be insanely immersive
I LOVE the idea of chaining hauling missions together and piecing a route together, etc. I've just not been able to do it ONCE because every time, I've either been DCd in the middle, randomly just respawned somewhere on the other side of the system, blown to bits by glitching boxes, or unable to move boxes that seem superglued to the floor of my ship. I'm super patient with this game but I had to step away for a bit until they work all this out.
Not only is it a fun and relaxing way to play the game (kind like playing truck sims and such), its also how they make physical cargo important. Those are KEY component for the pirate gameplay... And if the game delivers on risky trade route, varied cargo type and fluid economy... Yeah those are fun things to toy with in a space sim. This is not a space battle sim or a pirate sim !
Think about the pirates!!
I agree its a space sim. I want to spend more time in space. Right now i spend 10 minutes loading and unloading cargo and maybe 5 minutes flying my ship. This to me isnt fun because im spending most of my time in the hangar. I also dont find it relaxing at all, especially with the threat of piracy when unloading. I think a lot of us who pledged to the 'ultimate space sim' didnt have menial labor tasks like loading, eating, drinking, and waiting around in mind.
people" "WE WANT REALISM"
also people: "no not that real!"
I want it to be as real as it can be 😅
@@beardedbarnstormer9577 people want it to he believable, but not just another life.
@@therecklesswarlock6439 Speak for yourself.
I want to play a game, not have a virtual reality of the world I'm trying to escape
@@tripperdan sounds like Star Citizen is not the game for you. We're still getting Hygiene and bathroom mechanics
I think people mis understand the hauling missions, in my opinion cargo hauling is accepting multiple contracts from one location let’s say that’s 300 Scu of cargo then deliver it. Not accept one mission and then go from A -B and back to A hauling is for massive ships atm
The problem I have with them right now is there is essentially zero benefit to repping up. I finally made it to "Member" and the hauls are the same size, the crates still limited to 8scu, the pay the same. The only noticeable different is there are a few jobs that pay a TINY bit more but require more stops.
The system doesn't pay more for ranking up, it doesn't give you bigger jobs, or bigger crates. In general you don't get any more pay for doing larger jobs versus smaller jobs and the amount of containers you move per job are about the same regardless of total SCU. You might as well just stack small jobs all day long and not care about rep.
I donthen as a to b to c but sometimes c is a because a is often a Leo station
Agreed, even more when you notice sometime some mission ask you to deliver crate at a certain place who offer a mission to pick other and thus creating without realising complex delivrery route
This is bringing me back to the game. I've slowly started remapping my controls and catching up with things.
LOL at Hull-A carrying Giant Hot Dogs at 7:34
The important cargo missions
Always love these thurough deep dives. A+ on production value too. 💯
Thanks Mike!
2:30
Her expression perfectly captures the joy and excitement we feel in grinding through CIG's latest soul-crushing misstep in game design.
What's the misstep??
Didn’t think I’d like moving boxes, hanger and cargo so much.
Me, this particular style of cargo gameplay is made for me specifically.
I want to load, offload cargo, check in with station management to sell said cargo, smuggle contraband physiocally hidden in the ducts of my ship. I want to move my boxes into my small ship, pay NPC's to mvoe cargo itno my large ships while i manage my routes/fuel costs/ship repairs ect. This gameplay is made for me.
This and let me treat my ships power & flight systems like i'm playing My Summer Car and i'll spend hours rebuilding my ships engine and moving boxes around.
ally like the cargo hauling. it pairs so well the salvage i enjoy. i can build up alot of rmc at a station with my vulture. then i get to take a big haul in my c-1 spirit to new babbage to sale for a big payday. very satisfying.😁👍
Anyone who does piracy has been interacting with this gameplay loop since cargo was physicallized. For the first time, cargo haulers get to experience as much cargo gameplay as pirates 😂
Yup! There are a lot of ways this while initiative affects different gameplay.
0:08 me. As a cargo hauler, I want this.
Nice! Another aspect of a feature they can spend a decade developing
Making everything physicalized is a good step in the direction of having NPCs onboard and making that work viable, where time also makes sense during these activities. Or should we say where we sum it all up into one word, Chris Roberts mantra "IMMERSION", which is the goal in any game, where you forget time and become the player and enjoy yourself to the fullest.
Cargo hauling is just one aspect which is logical to have in a game like this.
I played Freelacer for like 10+ years, and never even 1 time did I think "man I wish i could personally load all of these boxes onto my transport ship"
Nobody can make a SC subject more interesting than ST. My boy here has a voice that can make Hollywood's best narrators pale in comparison!
As a space trucker I don't see any problem with the cargo loop. It doesn't take long either especially since they released the ATLS (I know it's a pledge) for loading and unloading it takes me a minute max per 50 scu. I do however want to see more variety when it comes to the packages themselves or what we're shipping. Otherwise, it's smooth 👍
This Citizencon will be mainly SQ42 I think, server meshing and hopefully a closer look into Quanta that comes in on your blind side to mesmerize everyone where it just works.
I just love innovation and technological leaps, which the industry lacks allround where CIG wants to look the best fidelity wise, BUT CIG also want seamless immersion on a insane scale, in a true MMO with DESTRUCTION all crammed into one. Try finding that in any other games now or coming the next 10 years, there are none.
Fasten your seatbelts, this ride is epic!
The critics are always the loudest. I absolutely love this cargo gameplay. I wouldn't have normally said anything if I didn't hear that there are a lot of people who don't like it and I'm like well. I better speak up too.
Let the folks know! People have been quite liking it as well. Differing opinions for sure, but I think that's healthy.
Last time I tried commodity trading (a week ago), the TDD couldn't detect my cargo unless it was on my ship, at which point I had to go back to my ship and offload it onto the freight elevator. But I never got paid.
This gameplay is made for me! I brought this game due to bring told full physical cargo would be a thing, I wanted space trucker 2954 and I love it!
12:29 I'm not sure what this image is showing but I don't know if it's right or not.
On the SC page, the cargo capacities of the hull series are the following:
- Hull A: 64 SCU
- Hull B: 384 SCU
- Hull C: 4608 SCU
- Hull D: 20736 SCU
- Hull E: 98304 SCU
Honestly I have no idea how humans will be able to load and unload the Hull D in a reasonable amount of time, let alone the Hull E.
Plotting out cargo runs, shifting boxes, hopping from place to place... The only thing that'd improve it for me would be a copilot to help move crates and man the turrets on my C2.
Did that hull A that was landing have giant hotdogs on the spindles?
You know it’s funny cargo running on paper sounds boring but I have so much fun doing it. I take 5-6 30k missions and fly around the verse. It’s really relaxing.
Star Citizen is an experiment, that giving us the dream to travel through space without limits, and for it have 12 out of 10 from me, regardless the gameplay. And so the Starfield.
What almost forgotten is cargo logistics is going to affect *EVERYTHING*, ever more the bigger it gets. Big player orgs are going to need fuel, parts and ammo moved and stored to where their activities are happening. I could see my friends and I hovering around conflict zones as a war profiteer, with a cargo bay of ammo and common spare parts, and a smaller medivac ship to pull people out of danger and have the goods on-hand to get them back into the fight faster than returning to a city or base and fully restocking... for a fee.
I actually like the cargo system's progress so far. Mostly if I decide I want to go from Area 18 to New Babbage, for example, I find a contract along that route and make a little money on the way. I just wish that when you get a contract to move 90 SCU of quartz, it wasn't 90 single SCU boxes.
Amazing vid with great b-roll as always ❤️
I like space tomatoes videos the pacing of them make them really easy to digest keep up the good work
Great video brother.. we are learning as we go
I've only got a Drake Cutter. I loved trading in Elite, I loved evading bounty hunters, I bought SC late last year and I just struggle with it. I usually just end up dying from something silly, like a bug.
My biggest complaint is the sizes of the missions. It goes from, say, 10 to 20 scu on the small missions, and jumps straight to 80+ in the medium missions.
Considering the sizes of the Spirit and Hull A, the obvious next step up in size of ships, the medium missions should be >64scu
They jsut need to balance time taken to laod-unload vs reward, if the time you put into the hauling missions/tradding is worth the reward then i think it will be perfectly fine, some people like the relaxing gameplay of loading un,loading boxes and hauling them around in space. Plus there will always be the option of buying a service fee to have it done automatically, it will just eat into your profit a bit. Thats why i think it needs to be balanced for these reasons and if that happens i think it will be great, for those that want to unload/load and for those that dont.
I like the cargo loading but I learned something new from you! Have a buddy help complete the cargo missions? Didn't think that works, but nice! I think as a beginner, the self loading is a nice time sink, but later, I can see how tedious it would be and require cargo services. Can have missions where randomly if you do it manually you have a chance at a bonus cargo box or a rare item(s) found in the elevator. Be honest and turn in for a reward, or keep at the risk of getting caught.
Great video as usual señor tomato . Great production and information value
Moving things around a dock or warehouse is pretty boring. Playing tetris with it in the hold is potentially more interesting and fun.
Suggestion: Have the cargo crates and things that are shaped even more oddly than just boxes get placed by a conveyor, elevator, bots or some other automated mechanic directly at the ramp of the ship and then the player can quickly and easily grab them to then fit the items into their hold as efficiently as they want. If the player doesn't feel like or not interested then just toss it in without worrying about wasted space and the items will autolock in various spots. There's even an automated tractor beam for this. Faster but leaves more wasted space. So efficient in time but inefficient in space used. If the player likes the idea of being efficient and playing tetris to squeeze as much in as possible then they can take the time to do so.
Key is to eliminate the boring walking back and forth from some distant point in another room to the ship to move the cargo around the facility (and that's not generally the job of the trucker who generally load things on/off their truck but then facility workers move it around the facility).That is very quickly very tedious and takes no little thought or skill from the player. It's just a time sink. The real potential fun and interesting action is fitting it into the hold (especially if there are configurations that are oddly-shaped and larger and present potential inefficiencies in space used that have to be thought through and worked around by the player).
TLDR: Emphasize the tetris game of placing the items into the hold. De-emphasize playing as a conveyor belt to get the items to the ship ramp. Give players an automated hold filling tech that saves on time but loses on space efficiency.
If it's part of a quest chain I'll do any game loop and would love to do it. But I'm not interested in any industrial game loop as my main type of game play so I don't care too much on how it's implemented.
I am happy it's all in the game, as it fills up a living galaxy as you would expect.
Thanks Tomato! I'm not a fan of throwing boxes though that footage of the Clipper's new arm tractorbeam has caused me enough pause to reconsider.
Overall, the whole evolution has been and continues to be a lot of fun to play through.
I have no problem with the physicalized cargo handling and actually liked it when I got it to work. My problem is with how our tools work and the logistics of everything. Go to ANY freight hauling company. Now go to one of their warehouses. You will never see a semi backed up to their doors with a 30 degree ramp into the trailer. That is just stupid. And the new ATLS just emphasizes this problem since there is no line of sight to place boxes so you have to move the boxes from the corner of the hangar to the back of the ship. Then go inside the ship and pull the boxes into the cargo hold. The freight elevator off in the corner instead of that giant space in the middle of the back of the hangar is so dumb also. Make it so that there are 2 elevators and not cattycorner from each other. Put one on the end, and one in the middle of the side. Then if you are not going to give us dock height landing pads, make the elevator stop above ground level with a simple staircase or ladder up to it so we can load straight into our ships.
Ok, so several points having been attempting to engage with this patch and hauling cargo as I don't mind space trucking
1) Why is the auto load system related to contract goods not implemented with a countdown time sink if already there for normal cargo? The system was there, so why the layered effort particularly with point 2
2) Why is the atls being charged money? That and the hover thing should just be an object in every instance hangar. Two of each specifically. That was the thing I noticed immediately when trying to handle rookie bulk runs I had for something like 15 or 16 1scu boxes. It gets really tedious. Hell, instead of the hoverboard thing, there is a pair of a version on wheels decorating the hangars already, so clearly modeled, just finish them out and be actionable props like the medical carts.
3) I think it is time CIG starts listing more detailed specs on the cargo holds. Not just how many scu, but how the space is broken down. For example, the zeus cl has 122 scu. That is cool. But it also only stacks 3 high. That is less useful when you get those 2x2x2 8scu boxes for missions. I learned this with my MSR already. 8scu should be doable for a raft, but it is locked to 3x 32scu containers, so how does that work considering it is underslung. Same goes for aurora cls and 1scu containers.
I guess for me, it is back to playing other games and waiting for them to complete the freight system before coming back. It adds more work without really adding value with the work. Especially since their answer to help is charging $40 for a hangar prop (they don't have thrusters so can't be used in eva btw)
Addendum - The longshoremen that at work on the East and Gulf coats of the US are currently on strike - the world will soon find out how important of a cog they are to the machine which is global trade. It is ironic that a game like Star Citizen included a commodity trade game loop but incredibility short-sighted as to how important cargo loading efficiency is important to virtual intergalactic trade. Longshoremen make trade possible as ship owner operators do not load their on cargo. Manual and Auto cargo loading should both be available everywhere.
I already hate this I was hauling gold yesterday and after spending over 45mins. loading and unloading it i put it on my elevator to sell I click sell and somehow not only is the gold gone but lit all of my money on my account it makes no sense and it has me not even wanting to play the game anymore. Ive never had issues with cargo until now. And I dont plan on doing cargo anymore if money I dont even spend has a chance of just disappearing into nothing.
Contract hauling sounds good, if it worked and didn't remove reputation, thus having to start over if you haven't been given negative reputation?
I've always wanted a hover trolly (suggested to "Game Ideas"), that can carry six crates for P&D mission, go up and down stairs (keeping vertical), into the airlock and around an outpost to gather the crates and move them back to my ship (even as small as a Pisces).
Yes, they may have made it take way longer to make money hauling. But at least they also raised the cost of ships.
I always wanted to run cargo in Star Citizen but never bothered because I didn't want to fork out hundreds of thousands for measly profits and/or lose it to pirates or bugs/30k's. I wanted to just be an Eddie Stobart driver/pilot (truck hauling company in the UK), collecting someone else's cargo, and shipping it to somewhere else then get paid. I was excited for 3.23, then ultimately 3.24, because I could finally use my Raft and have a good time. I don't mind the manual loading/unloading, it's chill and the game is to be enjoyed, not have profits min-maxed at every turn. Some people want it 'now', and that's ok, but Star Citizen is a slow paced game trying to be authentic (I use the term authentic and not realistic).
So long answer short. It's for me. I wanted this. Have wanted it for a while.
I hope for an X4:Foundations style of personnel hiring and management with both galaxy wide overview down to first person hands on.
Cargo is fun except for the fact that youre rewarded based on rank and not how many boxes you haul. So there is no reason to do a contract with a big load when you can do several contracts with small loads that take up as much space and rewards you the same amount of money per contract. That said, i do like running several jobs at once
I would enjoy running Cargo much, much more if the missions weren't purposely designed to piss off anyone with a Hull A.
SCU capacity: 64.
Missions: Appx 10 SCU in size 1 boxes, or appx 100SCU in size 8 boxes.
The day ships in SC become an asset is the day i will start playing again.
I wanted this gameplay. I wanted physical and actual cargo. I just wish you could pick box sizes
I friggin' love the new cargo gameplay. There are adjustments to be made. Definitely. The ATLS should work more like the multi tool. But that's another issue.
But the slow, logistical planning of routes and storing containers in the right order deeply appeals to me. I feel like the Brainiac of Logistics.
@@LarsBahner the ATLS and regular tractor beams are different for a reason, they're intended for different use cases. ATLS is for moving large amounts of cargo quickly, where tractor beams are better for handling sensitive cargo gently so as not to damage it (I know, we don't have that kind of cargo yet, but that's eventually gonna make its way in)
My brother in Christ.. not a player controlled economy... let's see lol
@@Venhili Indeed, but it doesn't work very well. Also the bent tractor beam looks absolutely silly. The old way of working should be the default, then - say - the right mouse button con snap it to the ATLS. The placement should remain the same, because now it is virtually impossible to place a container correctly - if you can see it because the view is blocked by the container.
@@eyeballjellyforbreakfast it's not supposed to be a player controlled economy, it's AI driven, quantum simulation/Starsim will do that. But that's more than just the economy, that is supposed to handle all ai, missions, and economy.
Great video!!
Cargo update is DOPE! More mechanics that allow for more emergent gameplay, which is exactly what I've been encountering lately. I love it, can't wait for more!
The only people talking shit about the update are those who talk shit about Star Citizen regardless of what they do. You know, those idiot losers that still call this game a scam.
wait what im an idiot loser? I better change my mind and enjoy this game now lest I be made a fool by a random comment!! (nobody ever)
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n Except you, you just said that.
Great video, T, as always. But with respect, how can you make this awesome video - full of great facts AND opinions - without mentioning that so far, weeks into "THE cargo patch," the cargo elevators don't work so often? Or how you can't drop cargo off at outpost freight elevators, pretty much ever? Or so many other totally non-functioning factors there are related to cargo? I know you said the word "bugs" once or twice but, goodness. The "great cargo patch of 3.24" was little more than "boxes are physicalized and you can lift and lower them, but good luck successfully completing most missions, because more often than not, the backend logistics won't work as soon as the elevator door closes." Just my sour taste towards the patch, not you, Space Tomato. Thanks again for a great video.
Imagine if starship battles weren't simulated like they're in a ozone filled gravitational well. What if you can not only fly straight, but up, down, back, and side to side too. Not only that, but your momentum would be constant because of the lack of drag
Ah you mean Decoupled mode in SC?
@@romanwiller2180 fuck yea, guess I'll have to try it out
Love cargo hauling gameplay idk why people are upset with having to move the boxes manually and stuff hated the auto loading before kept eating my money
i just hope tractor beams are going away, i would love to move massive amount of cargo with trolleys or cranes...
For more casual players, valuable but small delivery could be an option ^^
I'm sure there can be enough diversity for everyone in the future !
I've enjoyed the physical cargo hauling so far. Its pretty chill. I've gotten pretty efficient with the ATLS too so loading/unloading time aren't too bad. Definitely not a hop on hop off sort of loop gameplay...
"Who even wants this gameplay?" Well, every single original backer that's been waiting forever for this. We knew what we donated for, unlike those backers of today, expecting to buy into some Destiny/COD hybrid of instant gratification. I fear what impact that horde of casual gamers can have on the future of this game.
The cargo system is awesome, having the mule not immediately available in game is not..
They need to divide cargo and inventory so you don’t have to drag all the stacks of ammo into ship 😩
Why don’t the hangars have tractor beams and a station built in?
Honestly. I thought I wanted it. But I've run five or six cargo missions now, and I (honestly) can't stay awake doing anything larger than a Raft. There's nothing interesting or exciting about it. And for big hauls, if you fuck up the order, you will have to unpack everything and try again. I'm (again, honestly) thinking about melting my cargo ships. I cannot imagine using my Caterpillar at this point.
My problem is not being able to load my carrack rental at all because they didn't activate the darn doors and for some reason can't autoload.
dawg I just want to fly cool space ships why do they keep adding more and more barriers and challenges to do so. The more time I spend outside of my ship flying around the less fun I'm having
i dont think people understand what all these new systems really mean for the game.. i hate to say 4.0 as some arbitrary goal but these are all systems we need to go from 3.0 - true 4.0 with all the different gameplay loops
"Who even wants this gameplay?"
Not me! As a commodities trader in a C2 100% of the time, I do not like the option not to have auto load available at all locations! Some of us live very balanced lives and don't have the time, nor want to spend 30 mins manually loading cargo (i.e. playing with a tractor beam, we rather be flying our ships). From a reality perspective - longshoremen load cargo ships, and have been doing so for centuries. I am 100% sure that profession is never going away.
Me. Im the one. And I’m freaking loving it.
I absolutely loved it once the ATLS was in.
Its not about cargo, its about 4.0 being late and shitmodes aka mastermodes
I like it even if the implementation isnt taht exciting. I see the way they go and I hope the next time they update the mechanic isnt that long away
As long as stability and bugs are so numerouse I will stick with hauling contracts.
Me… I’ve be a fan of trading since the day I played wing commander privateer
i dont mind it makes my little cutter useful dont take big hauling jobs due to the amount of boxes i keep it in smaller numbers less time spent in station loading and unloading letting me spend most of my time traveling and actually making money. also i keep a eye on local some dude needed a ride lastnight gave him one and he paid me 500,000 lol its easy and relaxing to make money hauling for me lol
It's for me, it's my loop! 😖👉
Me. This gameplay is made for me. It makes me very happy
I like the changes !!
Me. It's made for me.
I love this cargo gameplay. I enjoy camping outside the distribution centers in my Eclipse. I wait for players to land, then make them cry when I send them a beautiful torpedo that just turns all their cargo into dust. 😁
Star Citizen players be like: OOOOOOWAAAAA OOOOOOOWWAAAAAA!
Seriously. In a game like this, with underdeveloped everything. Steps towards complexity are the exact right thing, even if they aren't the permanent changes. They'll still help towards figuring out what the player base actually wants. I'm still fairly certain though that lots of people (me included) will like all the changes made to hauling.
"it shouldn't be a game built on something promised 10 years ago"
The hypocrisy of this statement.
These are the very same people who would hold CIG to the fire whenever they do not follow through on what they promised X amount of years ago. This is moving the goal post.
*transferring to warehouse*
It slowly become euro truck simulator 3
Sorry you actually have to do something now😂
The physical cargo is one more step in the right direction, we've almost got our lovely immersive sim experience 😊
@@man-gi1yv oh nooo, I have to actually interact with a game's mechanics to play it? I can no longer play a glorified idle game? Outrageous! 🤣
@@Venhili I wish the "immersive experience" didn't involve levitating boxes like a wizard.
@@stonerhino83 it's a Sci Fi game, tractor beams actually work here
@@deimos39 you definitely never played Star citizen lmao and no point has it ever been an idle game lmao the bugs alone pervent this
I mean, man can't we combine those 1scu to bigger ones or split those 32scu one to 2 16scu one.😂
Why punish players that don't want to load stuff manually by paying for it to be loaded? So either you load it yourself and loose time or pay in game and still loose time? Does not make sense. Yes others will enjoy the self loading but so many others just want the cargo to be loaded and fly. People should not be punished for wanting to play a simpler version / manner.
It's not a punishment. If you want to not play there's easier ways to not play than logging on and expecting it to play itself.
It was expected to me. I've been expecting things to get a lot more hands on and complex since the beginning. Don't get comfortable with anything in an alpha, anything and everything can change before the final product. I don't see it as a punishment. I see it as fully fleshing out the cargo experience.
Why is was even a "drama"
1st it took most of the year patches
2nd it was broken even after so long
3rd even tho it took so long they have to refactor ATC later(will probably break the cargo elevator again)
4th most ships where not made with this cargo system in mind
5th economy is so bad that ppl dont want to play it(currently)