@@streetsandpeaks3013I never understood the phone problem. People need to start realizing there is no difference between prepaid phone carriers like boost cricket google fi. And the top brands like Verizon’s At and t and t mobile. I spend 43 dollar a month for unlimited everything and I’m good. So would always recommend people going that route
@@streetsandpeaks3013interesting math you have there… it’s almost like you ignored a global crisis and blamed people buying phones (something you cannot live without) and a bit of take away food, for being affected by a global cost of living crisis.
@@hi_im_ep1k187 Ok fine. Want a better example? How about 1.7 trillion dollars worth of student debt floating around in the form of several hundred dollar/month payments. Much of it held by people that didn't follow through on the process, didn't bother researching the post graduation job prospects for a master's degree in underwater basket weaving, and "can't afford to live" because they already spent their money on something of debatable value? That a better example of people making bad financial choices?
We have less of a "motorcycle luxury" issue and more of a "luxury motorcycle" issue. Even the beginner bikes are loaded with stuff that you don't need but you have to pay for it.
@@MrKillervincent I bought one at the Triumph dealer over here and I saw 5 other people checking out the Speed 400 and ignored pretty much every other bike on the floor. The salesman told me they are already on their third order. They had 15 on their first order and that didn't even fulfill all their deposit orders. I am seeing more REs on the road as well.
The biggest issue isn’t that prices are high… but that people are prepared to pay them. When I was a lot younger you had to be an absolute baller just to drive a BMW. There were literally only a handful in my entire area and when they rolled by we would stop in awe. Now 30 years later I see McDonald’s staff turning up to work in newish BMWs. Everyone is living their best life despite not really being at that level financially. Our parents drove modest cars, didn’t travel that far on holiday (if they went on holiday at all) and would carry a flask instead of buying a coffee on the road. Now that retailers know they can bleed us for so much they have pushed prices up to eye watering levels. We stop buying and prices will come down
And then there is the new vs used aspect. I believe nowadays too many people have the attitude of not even considering a second hand buy, just sign the finance paper, get into more dept and enjoy the latest greatest shiny new stuff. Almost nobody bought anything new when I was young. And guess what, we didn't mind at all, in fact we rather spent the remaining cash on modifying and personalizing our bikes. So satisfying.
@@stefanmclinger3646 Yeah man, consumerism is out of control. Most people I know spend $3000+ on just a sofa for their first rental house/appartment, even people that have 'nothing' to spare. I recently moved in with my girlfriend and we bought almost nothing new (mostly thrift store), our whole interior cost us less than $2000 and I love it.
In the UK, if we want to start at 17, we have to do a CBT, then an A2, then a full A (unrestricted) license. It can cost around £1400 JUST to have a license? Then you get shafted by insurance prices, bike prices, then tax!
That licensing cost sucks, but its honestly a good thing. Here in the US when I got my motorcycle license in 2008 all I had to do was pass a written test and I was free to ride any bike in the world. It makes for a lot of really careless new riders buying R1's as their first bike and throwing themselves into street signs.
What is insurance cost in the uk? In germany i pay about 350€/year for the 07 ZX 6R, taxes are about 2,50 € per 25cc here. A buddy of me owns a S1000RR and he pays about 1k full coverage for it
There’s something else going on here - adjusted for inflation, everything I’ve experienced in the past 50 years of motorcycles pretty much adds up to today’s prices. In 1978 I was making $2/hr and saved $150 for my first used dirt bike. In 1984, I was making $23,000 and bought a $5000 motorcycle. Adjusted for inflation, it’s pretty much on par to today’s prices vs income. What I didn’t have is $100,000 in student loan debt, rent that was 50% of my gross income and utility bills that were the equivalent of a weeks’ wages. The so-called “cost of living” today is well beyond the consumer price indexes. There are expenses today that simply didn’t exist 40 years ago.
I have a wife two kids three dogs and all I do is work. I bought a used 2013 Honda CBR 600rr with 2300 miles on it for $7000. I’ve had it for three or four years now and put a little over 2000 miles on it. I might ride once a month if I can gather the energy. Everything cost so much nowadays you have to work constantly just to survive, barely have time for fun. But I still will never get rid of my bike.
The local Harley dealership keeps trying to get me to “upgrade” from my ‘96 Yamaha Vmax to a sportster. I asked them why I would spend five times as much for a bike with less power and they basically said “because Harley!” $20k out the door is way too much for a toy.
If you are at a Harley dealer on a yamaha don't you think its their job to get you to trade up? You sound like they are knocking on your door once a week to try and get your 30yr old $5000 cruiser.. If they keep trying to get you to upgrade, maybe its because you really want one, otherwise, why are you even there??
@Clutch_Kick187 I was curious how good the new sportster was so I went for a test ride last summer. Since then they’ve texted me every two weeks for three months now. Even though I told them that I’m not interested they still reach out.
Excellent video. I usually never comment but kuddos for this one. This is actually loaded with valuable content that reflects beyond trivia enough to make it informative.
100% agree. EFI but no further. No launch control or GPS. No bluetooth or riders aids...it watered down what it means to ride a motorcycle. With all the farkles and gizmos it's just a 2 wheeled car at that point.
@@airgunbubba2505EFI and ABS, come on. But anything else, should be a boogy options. I can understand a car needing ESP with EBD too, but that's nothing something that has a place on a bike. Yes, the hardware doesn't take any additional place, and th software already exists, but the cost of tuning is unnecessary at "entry level". And let's not even go in the new fangled fad of aerodynamic appendixes!!
@@timh6845 This is where 80s and earlier bikes have an advantage, certainly in the UK, because they are exempt from emissions regulations, even in the big cities, where later vehicles are charged for entering if they don't comply.
Erm . . . EFI is now a fundamental part of the ICE and is probably a lot cheaper to produce than carbs. But that’s irrelevant to the cost of biking. If we look at the price of bikes in, for example, India compared to Europe and the US, you will see that it has nothing to do with the manufacturing cost. If you look at the cost of clothing and protection in the different markets, you will rapidly come to the conclusion that markets drive prices, not costs. Or, put it another way, cost and price are only distantly related. Take it from me, I’m a retired marketing exec.
That doesn't sound very American Thing's have really changed in the last few years You guy's always had the best toys and the price didn't really matter
It’s all a matter of personal perspective. I have been an avid motorcyclist for 52 years, and have owned around 40 nice, dependable and perfectly capable bikes. I have crossed the country 3 times on them so far, and done pretty much everything else that can be done on motorcycles, both on road and off, alone and 2-up with Wifey. And the most I ever paid for one was $3,900.00. That was pre-COVID, but thousands of nice, low mileage used bikes are still out there, and great deals still abound for the savvy shopper that knows what bikes are the best value.
@@user-bmw528it's possible. trading in, or selling bikes after a few months to a year, the bike doesn't lose much value or even make some profit if you are really savvy. I know a 27 year old kid who did this with around 15 bikes already.
Look at aviation if you want to see the effect of a shrinking market and reducing the supply of new models. The 30 year old Cessna training plane that sold for $20k 20 years ago is now a 50 year old plane going for $120k.
I live in Australia. I'm a former hanger rat. Your post prompted me to have a look at the classifieds here. I nearly fell off my chair. You couldn't give away an older Cessna (172/77/82) 10 years ago. They are worth their weight in gold, now. I remember one of our clients wondering if $40k Aud was too much for a 177 with 1000 hours to go on the engine (no idea about the airframe). My boss said it's "not a bad buy" and he grabbed it. It's a $200+k plane now! And you want to see what Beech Bonanzas are fetching! Unbelievable.
I don't think that motorcycling will get quite as bad as aviation, simply because motorcycling isn't regulated like aviation is. The regulatory requirements, like TSOs, drive up the prices of parts, assemblies, and complete aircraft. Plus, it's expensive to just get a license to be able to fly an airplane; a PPL will set you back like $15K-$20K now. Even boating is affordable in comparison.
@@markymarknj Yeah, one thing about motorcycling - particularly in the US is the bar to get licensed is VERY low. 250 bucks and a weekend of your time is all that's needed.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u yeah, and some time spent at DMV. Compared to Europe, the UK, Japan, and other countries, getting a motorcycle endorsement is easy, as there's no tiered licensing system in place. It's totally legal for a newly licensed motorcyclist to buy a 600 or liter bike. If either the new motorcyclist has some sense or the dealer has some ethics and morals, that won't happen. Ideally, the newly licensed motorcyclist will realize that buying a liter bike is a bad idea, or hopefully the dealer has enough ethics and morals to not sell such a bike to someone who just got their license. As someone who's a libertarian and minimal gov't person that's against licensing of any sort (for drivers, riders, professionals, etc.), I like that the licensing is minimal here. OTOH, I hate it when people get a big bike, even if it's a cruiser, for their first bike. The notion that the 883 H-D Sportster is suitable as a first bike is LUNACY to me! The same goes for the thinking that the Sporty is a "girl's bike". When I hear such talk, I cringe. When I was younger, it was understood that you'd start small, then work your way up as you learned; while there wasn't a tiered licensing system in place to force people to do this, it's what they did. You started out on a 90, 100, or 125, and you got some experience. Then, you'd step up to a 250. Next would be a 500. Only then would a motorcyclist think of getting a 650 or 750. When I was a kid, the original Honda 750 was a big bike that you worked your way up to; you didn't think about starting out on something like that. Fighter pilots don't start out flying an F-16; they work up to it. They start out on a simple, basic trainer, move up to a bigger and faster trainer, then a jet trainer. Only then are they ready for the F-16. The same should apply to motorcyclists. Even without a tiered licensing system in place, motorcyclists should start small and work their way up.
I found this out when I bought my first bike this past summer. I'm in my 30's and had been wanting a bike since I was 18. I remember looking back then and seeing higher end bikes were sub $10k. Now oof some of them cost the same as a full car.
Here in the UK, younger riders face expensive training, huge Insurance and the inconvenience of poor weather...So hard for entry folk. Often taking up driving cars later in life.
I'm 25 and I've just done my licence and its not very welcoming. training school, instructors and examiners have like a hatred towards you and make out that your an inconvenience to there day. The only reason i got the licence is because i hate traffic and i needed the upgrade so i could use motorways and what not. but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone id just say get a car unless your like me and hate sitting in traffic.
Criminally excessive dealer mark-ups/fees, price gouging insurance companies, & a lack of interest by manufacturers in curbing that behavior accounts for the huge part of market loss. You go in for new Ninja 500 & the dealer wants to extort you with $1500-2000 “fees”. Then insurance companies wanna charge you rates within a hair of a 100+ horsepower super-sport.
Outside the US, for example here in the UK, the other problem is storage. Not every house has a garage, hell, not every house has a driveway or a designated parking spot. That means insurance for those people is significantly higher. Here they have also increased the barrier to enter the bike market - you now need to pass three different tests to get an A2 licence.
Here in the U.S storage is also a problem. Many people live in apartments or houses that dont have a garage. Bike theft is common in the larger urban areas.
My wife and I bought an mt07 each in April 2023 to reward ourselves for being married for 20 years. Since then we've ridden almost 30 000kms together on numerous trips to different places around our beautiful country (Australia). We don't have much money and so to do it we sacrificed her car bringing us back to a one car family and I ride mine every day, everywhere, rain, hail and shine. There are so many amazing bikes about and we are always constantly admiring them and saying "imagine owning that!!!" but at the end of the day we know no one could possibly be happier than us riding together on our mt07s. Awesome reliable, cool bikes, very affordable and plenty of bang for your buck. Perfect for us. I've put 40 000kms on mine and had a grin from ear to ear for every kilometre I've done. Just happy to be riding.
Congrats on the marriage. I hope to find a woman myself. Currently I only have motorcycles. 2 bikes and no other vehicle. In America I guess women frown upon that and think we arnt a person for it.
@@theenzoferrari458 Thank you mate. Yeah I think I just got lucky. I don't envy single blokes in this day and age. Women have kind of......changed a bit😳 So what bikes have you got?
I think part of the problem is that most people think that anything less than 800cc is a "beginner" bike and is unusable for anything other than commuting. It wasn't that long ago when people were touring across the U.S. on 500cc-750cc bikes.
One of the many reasons I started on a 150cc scooter. Was able to buy a nicely used scooter in my area for $350. Used that for 2 summers, saving money until I was able to buy a used 2016 Honda CTX700 for $2700. I recommend scooters for first time riders as they are cheap and easy to maintain, then when you have saved enough cash, upgrade to a bigger bike.
Yes, I started on a Vespa, I was filtering the other day on my Triumph, and thought, "good thing I learned that on the Scoot". I still have my BV 400 as my grocery/errands bike, no car.
@@grtbgf Lame? 😂 The most practical vehicle, period. We just don't have the landscape. I've done 600 mile trips on my BV 400, comfortable, easy to ride, storage, easy on gas. I know plenty of motorcyclists that own both. In the city, there's nothing better.
You’re forgetting about insurance yammie! In Texas you can get a let’s say $15-$20-$25k motorcycle with $300-$480 monthly payment plus the insurance being $400!! It’s insane!
@@michaelfink2070 Totally depends on interest rate. My mortgage is like 3.4%. Car loan is 0% (for 72 months!) Summer 2020 was a good time to buy, when car companies were still terrified). Financing a new Audi at 6.5% right now though? lol nope.
@@stewie84 Yeah? Boycotting them in the West will have no effect on their sales elsewhere. If they don't make a profit, they'll simply stop supply to that region.
I ride my bike to work most days (34 miles one way). Almost every time I walk into the building carrying my helmet and wearing my gear, someone will say something like "I can't believe you ride a motorcycle on the highways during rush hour. I would never do that." This is even from people who own a bike and use it for a trip to the coffee shop on Saturday. The problem is that most Americans cannot think of a motorcycle as transportation. With that mindset, you don't need that "practical middle".
same, i ride everywhere no matter the weather. Heck i take my cfmoto nk300 to 550km one way trips now and then. I'd rather be free and a bit cold or wet rather than being stuck in public transit for hours.
Riding motorcycles in America is absolutely treacherous, and especially since motorcycle/scooter numbers are generally low compared to huge world cities in South America and Europe, drivers aren’t USED to motorcycles like they are in foreign countries I’ve ridden/driven in. I ride in Atlanta, which is dogshit madness every time I ride. I honestly wish I didn’t love riding so much. When I rented a motorcycle recently in Cape Town, South Africa - I had the most incredible riding experience on an unfamiliar bike, riding on the left side of the road (first time). Drivers there were SO conscious and careful with motorcycles/scooters. Not ONCE in the 16 hours of riding (city and mountains) did a car put me in danger, did a driver not notice me, did I pass someone texting. In fact, they scoot over in the lane to let you pass, which tells me they are looking in their mirrors constantly and being aware of their surroundings. Driving in ATL is fucking hilarious compared to Cape Town or even Buenos Aires. Absolute danger and disgrace, and I’ve been putting my dirtbike on the truck and driving 1.5 hours to ride in the woods because this city steals my fun.
Really good and balanced conversation about this topic. Your delivery is way above par, easy to listen to packed w/ information. Yeah something is definitely up in my neck of the woods w/ affordability. And in the same breath you have to figure in the fear value a lot of people have about the dangers in this mad car world. So yeah, the two big issues in my mind. Thanks Yam......
picked up a new 23 SDR Evo, yes it is overpowerd, yes it costed double the price of my car, yea it eats tyres like crazy and yes it took me some years to get it but damn it is a pure fun bike. The suspension is straight up magic, the engine is a blast and the fact that you know no matter what comes along your way on the street you can destroy them is gold. I have no regrets.
All the magazines talk about how supersports are dying, but nobody brings up that insurance is outrageous. Here in Phoenix it's like 200-400 a month. I'm 34, married, with a clean driving record and I was quoted 250 a month for a Zx6.
I pay less than $300 a year for all 3 of my bikes. One is a 2022 and the other two are 2023’s. May be cheaper because I live in NC. I hear Florida insurance is crazy.
@@justinsmith623depends on the bike and part of Florida too though. I payed like 60 for full coverage on a newer supermoto and a beginner bike. My zx6 policy was only like 80 bucks but it was an 06
@@justinsmith623 I had a bike insured in FL, it wasn't bad. Granted, it wasn't a supersport, but still, at least some motorcycles in FL aren't crazy expensive to insure.
Well, it's bloody simple and motorcycles are just one of the many examples of the trend: over time less people accumulate more wealth, so the average purchase power drops. You have less and less pople that can afford mid and high range goods, with a small group that can afford more and more. Second Gilded Age, plain and simple. You can see the same thing in the UK.
they don't even like cars unless there expensive and show a false sense of wealth. im 25 so still young and i see people my age or slightly older or younger who don't even like bikes or even acknowledge they exist. they'd rather have a BMW on a 5 year loan lol.
Another thing about paying the high motorcycle prices is that, unless you live somewhere like Florida, you can only ride about half of the year because of weather and temperatures.
@@tomblewomble3369yes plenty of people do. But when bikes are view has a luxury and not alternative transportation in the state. Because of that less people will be willing to ride in the cold.
Excellent report. I've owned 28 bikes since 1972, and am AMAZED how prices have skyrocketed. TOO MUCH FANCY TECH! I own a GSF1200 Bandit (I've had three)- air cooled, carbureted and simple. With a little tweaking they are the BEST model I've ever owned, for value. In 1998, MSRP was $7200.
The proliferation of finance products in the EU and USA has added to the creep in new bike prices - few people really 'buy' a bike now and there's less emphasis on the screen price than there is on the monthly repayments. I got my first new bike in 2016 and it never really felt that it belonged to me - because it didn't.
We didn't recover from 2008. The government papered over the problem with money printing and the amount of money in the system went up, mostly in the financial industry, but the actual economy and manufacturing never recovered.
Yup, a decade later people barely financially recovered from 2008 when the banks got bailed out with the people's money. Then in 2020 the workers again got screwed while corporations got more bailouts (the largest wealth transfer in human history). As Americans, we really need to come together and do something about it.
Corparate Greed destroyed the motorcycle community. Companies keep raising prices to keep up with inflation, but don't want to pay their stafff any more and refuse to raise the pay to keep up with the price increases.
I’m 23 and some “old head” advice…. I have a 5 year old GSXs 750. Paid cash. Practically brand new and half price vs a brand new version identical with different fairings and dash/lights. Both brand new(my old version is as well) couldve financed a BRAND NEW SUPER SPORT. I chose to buy a cheaper smaller cc that I can actually afford and have fun on bc I’m not scared to death what’s gonna happen if something happens to it. I do have full coverage but the advice here is…. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I would rather ride my bike hard and enjoy it than have a brand new 10k plus bike of any kind. I want to own a house. I want to own a prospering business. I wanna take my kids on vacations I never got to go let alone imagine. I want to treat my wife. We should all continue to put our foot down and not buy these giantly overpriced over luxed bikes. I believe the huge loads of electronics should be a finance option not a mandation…. And thus makes manufacturing cheaper/faster and makes them more money selling electronic kits to dealers thus making them the same profits with less labor involved ON THEIR END and more money available to dealers thru mechanics
In my country if you look at Harley owners they are mostly directors, ceo's, dentists... harley in my country is basically unfordable for majority of working class. Cheapest harley is 18k. If you have money but also a family it's an expensive toy that will be used once a while during summer weekend. Majority of people are riding 10+ yo middle class bikes and 125cc (my 1st one was CB 125R used). Weather is also often factor... right now it's winter and I switch from my XSR to tram... it's not like california where you can ride whole year.
Love how you're talking about how the cars/bikes we buy are not getting that much more expensive, it's just that income inequality combined with a higher percentage of income going to rent/mortgages leads to the median American no longer being a viable market for these companies. Cars/bikes themselves are better than ever before, it's a demand-side issue.
Bikes as a flex are only maybe a flex for other riders. To the rest of the non riding world any bike is a flex. Younger people are struggling to make payments on 15 year old Civics. The last thing on their mind is a vehicle they won't use year round but have to pay on year round.
I like how in movies from the 50s or 60s there was this notion that women were really into guys with motorcycles...😅 I have literally never had a single woman even remotely interested in the fact that I ride. Had to explain this to my ex wife-- the only attention I'm getting is from other guys on bikes and small children
@@deadsirius3531 So true. Out of hundreds of interactions while out riding only a small handful were women and of those only a few were more than a quick "Love the color" or "Nice bike". I did have one little old lady come up to me when I had a sportbike and she went on and on about how she missed riding hers but quit 15 years before
Here in Aus, a Jacket, jeans & armour just cost me $500 on a Black Friday sale. Still need a helmet, gloves, boots; so there’s another $1k probably. Learners permit course costs $500, mandatory check ride $280, licence assessment course $320. So I’m in the hole over $2500 before I even consider buying a bike
@ “As from April 2nd 2016 under the Motorcycle Graduated Licensing Scheme (M-GLS), anyone who has obtained their Learners Permit and wants to obtain their motorcycle licence must also complete a 'Check Ride' prior to undertaking a motorcycle licence course.”
I won’t even pay $20k for a new car so there’s no way I’m paying $15k for a motorcycle. Everything is getting turned into a dang video game on wheels these days and the prices reflect that.
Price of the bike is one thing, the fees on top are another. Motorcycle Dealers will easily add $2,000 worth of Dealer Processing Fee, Set up or PDI Fee, jacked up tag and title fees and more. Go to a Dealer in a small town where your business will be appreciated and the fees would be much lower. Stay away from Brands and Dealers that hide the Destination Fee (Ducati is one of them). Do NOT pay set up fee for BMW bikes because Dealers get reimbursed by the Manufacturer. Do not go for those 84 months, 96 months finance terms for low payments. You will be paying 30% to 50% of the bike's value in interest rate. And that is where the Dealer makes a killing. Don't be afraid of shopping around. Currently many manufacturers are offering very low rates to clear the 24 models, even 23 models. Ducati has 0%, BMW has 0% on certain models, Harley has $3K cash back on some of the Touring bikes. So, find the deals, make a deal end enjoy the ride.
Fellow Brazilian here. It's very interesting how different motorcycle feels here in the US vs Brazil. I used to ride in Brazil to save money on fuel and taxes. Here in the US, it's just a hobby that i spend money on. In some ways, i miss some aspect of riding in Brazil.. that being that you almost didn't have to follow any rules... Lane splitting, running red lights, speeding, etc... no one cared. Of course, the accident rate there ... proportional to the lack of rules
I agree. I bought a bike that is capable of going all around the world twice in a dependable manner, 7 years old but only 16k on it and hardly a mark, it has super handling, 120bhp, FOR £7,500. In 1983 my dad, RIP, bought an MZ East German 150 cc which would have fallen apart at 30k miles, and had terrible electrics and was always giving problems in the winter. Very basic tyres that offered low grip and very poor drum brakes. It was, in terms of his salary, and adjusting for inflation, as expensive as my purchase.
not having a ton of money for a motorcycle when I got back into it a couple years ago i bought a 2003 BMW F650CS for less than $2500. This bike while not the coolest checked all the boxes for me, fuel injection, ABS, and no chain to maintain (belt drive). I bought this bike after not having a bike for 25 years. My bike back then was a 1983 Kawasaki GPZ750.
Two years ago, I bought an 03 BMW K1200GT with 23k miles for $3600. Lots of relatively low mileage (for how many miles bikes will now run) are on the market at reasonable prices. Doing some or all of the maintenance yourself helps too, but even at that parts and gear are priced as a luxury item. I made some changes in my life and found by giving up some things, I have plenty of money for a motorcycle.
I bought a new Suzuki GSX-8R this year. Out the door cost including 7% sales tax was a little over $10,000. It was definitely on the high end of what I wanted to pay. (I took Suzuki up on their 1.99% financing offer and kept the money I would have spent from savings in the bank where it was earning higher interest.) For me this bike has way more engine than I'll ever need; I could have bought something less powerful, but you've got to admit the GSX-8R looks pretty sweet. It's a very versatile bike that can be used for everything from grocery store runs to commuting to long distance touring. (It does need a better seat to be a competent tourer IMHO.) I'm hoping it, and other bikes at its price point and below are successful. And that the people who buy them learn to ride safely.
I just bought mine last month, first break in service done at 670 I have 800 on it now. Parking it for winter. The bike is amazing. I won't ever need a liter bike as I'm 39 no reason for it. Came from a vulca. 800 and the kiddos want me to get a cruiser again due to them back packing lol. But I love my bike!
@skittzi The more I ride the 8R the more I like it. The engine especially is fantastic, so user friendly. Mine is in the garage for the winter now too, looking forward to early Spring and more fun next year. Good luck with yours!
Definitely will. Saving up for the camera and Bluetooth so I can start making riding videos. I'm buying my stands in begining of December so I don't get flat spots on the tires. The more I learn the bike the more I find out how fun this engine is.
This is so real. And every time I've mentioned it, people say "buy used". Every used motorcycle I've seen comes without a title (vermont closed the loophole), says "ran when I parked it"... OR is 10 years old, has 50k miles, and is only 5-10% less than a brand new model. Doesn't matter if I go to dealers, marketplace, or Craigslist.
That's why I'm more excited about Royal Enfield's last few years than just about any other manufacturer. The new Shotgun, the new Himalayan... Even if they're not what you're looking for they're great for motorcycling. Similar things with regards to CFMOTO and probably others I'm missing... expensive bikes make great posters, wallpapers and RUclips videos - but the most important segment for motorcycling as a whole is who makes the best affordable motorcycles. Which manufacturer can e.g. give you a punchy 500cc in segments where others give you a 300cc. Which manufacturer can give you adjustable suspension when others won't. That's exciting. How one 30K bike compares to another 32K bike is kindof irrelevant.
@ they're head turners too, I've got a Honda CB500X, my one friend a Suzuki VStrom, and our other friend has a Royal Enfield Classic 500. When we're on group rides nobody cares about the Honda or Suzuki... but people who know they're from this decade and those that don't keep looking at that bike. They absolutely nailed the classic styling. Nobody cares that it's got half the power of the Honda or a third of the Suzuki.
@@pieterrossouw8596 Styling and price, and they're still enough bike for the "real world" performance wise. They might never be the best bike in the paddock, but they have set the benchmark for bang for buck motorcycles that a wide audience will find amply enough for their needs.
The good thing is there's so much out there on the used private sale market because of people retiring from the hobby that you're par for choice to get a good used bike. I just got my first bike earlier this year and I spent about 3 months poking around trying to find something I liked. There's a lot of great bikes $5,000 and under on the market. I bought a 2006 BMW f650gs with 19,000 miles on it, garage kept and well taking care of for $2,300. It even had new tires on it, an upgraded brake system, a Corbin saddle and a full maintenance package done on it before I bought it.
It is why it’s best imho to buy one and take care r it and keep it. I have a 2015 KTM 1290 Super Duke R I purchased new in 2015. It is almost 10, will still do way more than I am capable of. Add the fact I am 66 and I sure don’t need anything better.
I really appreciate this video, which gives us a good and neutral overview of where the world and economy are right now compared to the past. Also appreciate mentioning Mv Agusta. A real gentleman and a scholar.
@@Originalsinn_AOThat's about what I paid when I had my FZ6 and my Victory Octane. But anything that can be crashed by squids or stolen is stupid expensive.
in india there used to be mainly 3,4 brands. But as off 2020 more and more brands have started to come into our market with the help of the existing brand. Even though harleys cost a lot in the us and is a luxury item but in india they have started to focus on smaller 450 cc motorcycle with the help of hero. Same for triump the engine u see in the speed and scrambler 400 are made by bajaj motorcycles with the help of existing engine. They share with ktm 390 , bajaj dominar , now triump to. Same collab with bmw and tvs motorcycle. Since the competiton for smaller motorcycle is really high in india so they had to collab with our brands. These motorcycles are then sold outside, thats why its so successful, if a thing works in india it is sure that it will work outside to. Same with Aprilia Rsv4. The middle part will surely come up a in the coming years
You mean when taxes shift from the poor and middle class to foreign nations, driving up wages and bringing more production back to the US? How about we just tax you 90% on income and no tariffs? All while th countries you buy your crap from has massive tariffs in shit you produce, so you can't sell your product in foreign markets at all
I'm enjoying the new more sophisticated Yammie Noob content. So many other videos could spin out of this one. Here's an example of the challenges facing the industry; today I priced insurance for a 2022 MV Agusta F3 RR, $3900 a year for respectable coverage limits (not bare bones coverage)... More than double what I was already paying for three other bikes. Insurance is sky rocketing.
In the UK you could, up until 1983, go out and buy a 250cc motorcycle and ride it on learner plates. Two stroke 250s, such as the Yamaha RD could easily out accelerate nearly every car around. Pass your one part test and you could choose any bike. Not the same now. And those who bought the more powerful bikes did so because it was their only form of transport, not as a fun toy in addition to a car. The world has changed. Bikes are better than ever, but fast ones are unavailable to teen rebels without jumping thru hoops to pass various tests. The market is no longer there.
My first bike (not moped - Garelli step-through BTW) was a very secondhand MZ TS250. 250cc single 2 stroke in 1981. Even that could out accelerate most family cars on the road. It even had a welded on spanner and bolt for the gear lever! That was something I found out when I wanted to take the side case off 😂
@dowster64 Sounds like you had a deluxe model! I remember the MZ bikes. I worked with a guy who had one. He was always extolling the virtues of them. On first seeing one I thought "Fck me. Looks like it's been fabricated out of a dustbin and scaffolding pipes."
Give me my '13 GSXR-750, and I'm fine. Fast enough for thrills, safe enough even without all the nanny options that just increase the cost on not only initial purchase, but maintenance as well. I don't know who the hell can afford to purchase a Panigale or a M1000RR in their 20's/30's without sacrificing other aspects of their lives to the detriment of their financial wellbeing. Even if they can, is it even worth it? Is there much of a difference between 180mph and 200mph? For me, it's taking a nice sweeper leading into a hairpin, and I don't need a $40k or $50k bike that goes ~200mph to enjoy that ride.
Great vid yam! The issue is people have bought things they can't (or shouldn't be willing to) afford for far too long, leaving companies like Harley thinking they will be ok. But once the market is no longer buying, the companies will have to adjust to the market, like triumph is trying with the 400, or die. I say let it happen.
Месяц назад+8
It's not just buying them, it's servicing costs too. I was quoted around $400 to change the coolant. (And that's with the gas tank and all the plastics already removed)
You nailed it. I spent 10 years traveling to rural Nicaragua, and I watched the locals go from horseback to bicycle to motorcycles under 200cc. Out of necessity, there are mechanics all over and almost as many females as guys riding. Getting your bike repaired or serviced is fast, easy and cheap. Oil change on my Yamaha FZ 150 sportbike was literally $5.
Same here. Asked for a quote to change out my air filter. $280. I don’t even make that much in one day. I took a couple of hours on the weekend and did it myself!
@@byronn.2885because they aren't mass produced. The most expensive glass on your car is the smallest piece, the quarter glass on your back door. Because it's produced in the smallest numbers. Everything is like that.
Very interesting and insightful video, especially the historic bit I know very little about as from a younger generation. I'm a low middle class biker and am certainly feeling the worry and stress of if i can even afford it as my only vehicle long term.
Hey yam, from India here.. So basically, all these really premium brands like Harley and Triumph and KTM have come to India and have done some colabs with Indian manufactures like Bajaj and Hero, and like over here, we get this Harley bike called the X440 for like 4000$ on road, and its good for upto 90mph.. and we all know the success story of triumph.. So me personally? I feel like manufactures are realising that the higher end of the market isnt that keen on a motorcycle, whereas u have some 25 year old who will put down the cash to buy a really fun and peppy bike and sell like 50000 of them every year
I ride a RE Scram 411. First bike I ever owned, @ 57 years old. I ride once a week for the most part and pretty soon I'll be outgrowing it. Only 25 hp and 5 gears but has been the "right choice" for a starter like me. Knowing what I know now, I should have started on something like the Triumph 400 scrambler or so. The decision to start on the Scram 411 was the price, of course about $4000 for a brand new bike. I think that Chinese and Indian bikes will become more popular in the US, just because of affordability.
For the record… North America is a credit driven society. Our houses are mortgaged, we lease our cars and boats can be amortized to 20 years! Hell, we even load our Starbucks App with our credit cards via Apple Pay. So why is it even remotely surprising that we finance bikes we can’t afford cash? The crazy thing in Canada 🇨🇦 anyways, is that a Yamaha, KTM or a Triumph are all as expensive as a Ducati. Why not buy a Ducati? … and not for the crazy credit numbers you mention, why not buy one for 3.99%?! For under $150 a paycheque you can ride around on a Ducati bro. Or better yet, how about a KTM off brand like Husqvarna or Gasgas 700?? Guess what, they are already on sale for thousands off thanks to their parent company woes. I picked up a new GasGas ES 700 for $12K CDN while the same KTM 690 was almost $17K…the same bike and I don’t even like orange! The bigger question is moto is so cult … why do 20 and 30 somethings order $40 Skip the Dishes lunches daily and buy $1100 iPhones instead of buying new bikes??? I’ll age myself here … when I was young, I chose to spend less money on food and beer and rent just so I could ride. Same story at 55 (cue Gen X comments) … I have a nice modest house, I have money for my kids to go to college if they want to, and a midsize truck. Moderation young people … less really is more. More motorcycles!! 🤘🏼
I think a more accurate feel of how our economic system works is to play two games of Monopoly. In the first one, play from the beginning and see how well you do. In the second one, start in the middle of the game when everyone else has already bought up all the property. I'm Gen X; everything we had was ridiculously cheap and easy. Rent, education, transportation, even dating was all mostly "just show up and you'll be fine." That's not what Mills and Gen Z is seeing.
I bought a 2023 Indian Scout Bobber precisely because, for the most part, it didn't have all that pricey high tech, traction control, different riding modes, blah, blah & blah junk. I wanted a motorcycle that was relatively simple to work on, reliable & easy on the eyes. To me, all that fancy computer circuit board stuff represented potential failure points I couldn't fix myself & that meant I was tied to the dealer & their expensive diagnostic tools. No friggin' way. I wanna ride while I can, not have my bike do the riding for me.
I've been riding 19 years.. alot has changed in the uk.. roads conditions like pot holes.. dash cams. More traffic.. I currently own a 2007 ducati 1098. Bough it for the look the sound and the dry clutch. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I love it.. not really bothered if it draws attention.. more sound and so people hear me.. your right tho it's getting harder to justify with a little fa.ily and the crap uk weather we experience. But I will hang onto it untill I get too old to ride. But at 41 I am loving it
Affording a gallon of milk is becoming a luxury item too. Because the billionaires want it that way. People need to politically address the deflation of real wages over the last 40 years.
The economy taking a shit could also harken a renaissance of motorcycling, imagine if interest in motorcycling rekindled from people trying to save a buck, true mass adoption of bikes occurs in the USA, suddenly intensive investment in motorcycle manufacturing occurs and new threshold of speed, power, value, efficiency occurs
In the suburbs, 4 kids, house, got a bike after 31 years... Now have 4! Track, touring, adventure and insane hypersport (H2)... Still love the idea of a Triumph Scrambler 400! Need to sell that to American Sunbelt youth as independent transportation option.... Go Yammie!
Most people hate driving as it is.. so you have to convince them that having zero protection, a good chance to die and a small bucket of money needing to be set on fire as well as a bunch of extra licensing steps are a good idea.
I despise driving, so I try and ride as much as possible. But when I am lane filtering and I see people smoking joints, on their cell phones, eating and grooming it makes me wonder if riding is the safest option.
@@christopherking9338 ditto. I pay $200 a month for my motorcycle including payment and insurance... compared to almost every car possible, the payments are usually $300+ and then you have insurance.
Yeah, I had a talk with someone about wanting an r3 or a ninja 500 and he responded that he wanted a litre bike. We live on a small island where you'd hardly find roads where you could utilize even 20% of smaller displacement bikes. It's just throwing away money
I inherited a 2008 Harley fatboy in 2016. I sold my 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 to put tire on my Fatboy. Also, wife said if I wanted to get a Hayabusa. I would need to sell it. I don't need more than 2 bikes. So, in 2019, I sold the Kawi. I finally got a 2004 Hayabusa this Oct. 2024. I am using it as my daily bike and take the Harley out on weekends when riding with friends.
I could not afford a new car. I really couldnt justify a used, questionably maintained, high mileage and overpriced used car. I bought a CRF300 rally. Its cheap to insure. It gets great mileage. It was a great and practical choice for me. I sunk a bit more cash into it to upgrade the suspension (and maybe a few other things). Still have ~9k in it all told. Plus its a swiss-army bike. It does everything and its great fun. Its loaded with features that you dont usually see at this price point. So, while motorcycling may look bleak in some aspects - it attracted me as a first time rider, because it was the most practical choice.
Agreed. Most people are never even going to recognize your bike passing by on the street and the average street bike looks cool and fast to everyone. 10:00
You're so right! I feel like a lot of sport bike riders now are more nerds with extra cash to blow. I went on vacation in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand and everyone had one out of necessity. And I wish the US was like that.
Did you know Harley-Davidson to create the X440, a single-cylinder bike designed specifically for the Indian and other developing markets as an entry level bike? which cost ~$4000
I financed my 24’ MT07, I got all the bs from the dealer, full coverage, additional warranty, but that’s due to me being a new rider. Figured starting on a 689cc naked I could do with the extra protections, also helps my credit line for when I want to buy a newer truck. IMO buying new does have some decent perks, especially when you have little to no credit history 🤷🏻♂️ bikes are a helluva lot cheaper than cars and houses. Lol
Blame ourselves not the manufacturers. There is a lot of complaining online when a bike comes out without cruise control, heated grips, and 18 rider modes. We're getting exactly what we've asked for.
I bought 2 new bikes in the 80s, a 1981 KZ 750 and a 1987 CBR 600F. Both of those bikes were best in class in terms of performance. Adjusted for inflation, the prices of those bikes is comparable to what you can get today, although the Kawasaki at, I believe, $2750 was a particularly good bargain, probably in no small part because the engine was basically a punched out KZ 650. Despite having no money in the 80s, I was able to get my hands on those bikes. Today, a bleeding edge middleweight bike just feels a lot harder to reach. I guess it's a good thing I'm an old man now and not so hellbent on min/maxing.
Wait till you see Singapore prices for motorcycles. Kawasaki Ninja 400 ZX-4R cost almost SGD$20,000 (USD$14,800+) , Triumph Speed 400 SGD$23,000 (USD$17,000+) excluding insurance and you can only use them for 10 years. Want to renew the Certificate of Entitlement (COE) for 10 more years ? pay another SGD$9000.00 (USD$6780) based on current price for COE
Because many motorcycle manufacturers are focusing on the high end of the market, Royal Enfield is CLEANING UP! Royal Enfield is doing so well because they're producing high quality, good looking, easy to maintain, fun bikes that are affordable. Plus, their bikes are more about the essence of what motorcycling has been about.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Affordability crisis in literally everything right now. Especially in hobby and most people’s recreational vehicles
Yup. If you bought your house in 1990 for 100k and it’s paid off, you have disposable income for bikes, atvs, jet skis, etc.
@@streetsandpeaks3013I never understood the phone problem. People need to start realizing there is no difference between prepaid phone carriers like boost cricket google fi. And the top brands like Verizon’s At and t and t mobile. I spend 43 dollar a month for unlimited everything and I’m good. So would always recommend people going that route
@@streetsandpeaks3013interesting math you have there…
it’s almost like you ignored a global crisis and blamed people buying phones (something you cannot live without) and a bit of take away food, for being affected by a global cost of living crisis.
When everything is a crisis nothing is.
@@hi_im_ep1k187 Ok fine. Want a better example? How about 1.7 trillion dollars worth of student debt floating around in the form of several hundred dollar/month payments. Much of it held by people that didn't follow through on the process, didn't bother researching the post graduation job prospects for a master's degree in underwater basket weaving, and "can't afford to live" because they already spent their money on something of debatable value?
That a better example of people making bad financial choices?
We have less of a "motorcycle luxury" issue and more of a "luxury motorcycle" issue. Even the beginner bikes are loaded with stuff that you don't need but you have to pay for it.
Why I think Hondas new GB350 and the Triumph speed 400 will a d are selling like hotcakes
That's true and the reason you can't be competitive in motorcycle racing without all the new technology.
Just get a gsx-r600, 750, 1000
@@MrKillervincent I bought one at the Triumph dealer over here and I saw 5 other people checking out the Speed 400 and ignored pretty much every other bike on the floor. The salesman told me they are already on their third order. They had 15 on their first order and that didn't even fulfill all their deposit orders. I am seeing more REs on the road as well.
@@benjaminwiner6220yahh i dont want a crotch rocket. i just wanna chill city ride to work and chill cruise on the weekends..
The biggest issue isn’t that prices are high… but that people are prepared to pay them. When I was a lot younger you had to be an absolute baller just to drive a BMW. There were literally only a handful in my entire area and when they rolled by we would stop in awe. Now 30 years later I see McDonald’s staff turning up to work in newish BMWs. Everyone is living their best life despite not really being at that level financially. Our parents drove modest cars, didn’t travel that far on holiday (if they went on holiday at all) and would carry a flask instead of buying a coffee on the road. Now that retailers know they can bleed us for so much they have pushed prices up to eye watering levels. We stop buying and prices will come down
BINGO !!!!!!!
And then there is the new vs used aspect. I believe nowadays too many people have the attitude of not even considering a second hand buy, just sign the finance paper, get into more dept and enjoy the latest greatest shiny new stuff. Almost nobody bought anything new when I was young. And guess what, we didn't mind at all, in fact we rather spent the remaining cash on modifying and personalizing our bikes. So satisfying.
@@stefanmclinger3646 Yeah man, consumerism is out of control. Most people I know spend $3000+ on just a sofa for their first rental house/appartment, even people that have 'nothing' to spare. I recently moved in with my girlfriend and we bought almost nothing new (mostly thrift store), our whole interior cost us less than $2000 and I love it.
@@stefanmclinger3646 Second hand prices are also crazy now.
When there Is no hope, people try to get cheap thrills
It happens to all kinds of people, don't make this generational
In the UK, if we want to start at 17, we have to do a CBT, then an A2, then a full A (unrestricted) license. It can cost around £1400 JUST to have a license? Then you get shafted by insurance prices, bike prices, then tax!
But don’t you love your socialism??
That licensing cost sucks, but its honestly a good thing. Here in the US when I got my motorcycle license in 2008 all I had to do was pass a written test and I was free to ride any bike in the world. It makes for a lot of really careless new riders buying R1's as their first bike and throwing themselves into street signs.
@@stewie84I don't think they chose to be socialist
What is insurance cost in the uk? In germany i pay about 350€/year for the 07 ZX 6R, taxes are about 2,50 € per 25cc here.
A buddy of me owns a S1000RR and he pays about 1k full coverage for it
Don't forget to mention cbt 16, a2 19, and full licence 21, unless you miss a year then it's DAC at 24
There’s something else going on here - adjusted for inflation, everything I’ve experienced in the past 50 years of motorcycles pretty much adds up to today’s prices. In 1978 I was making $2/hr and saved $150 for my first used dirt bike. In 1984, I was making $23,000 and bought a $5000 motorcycle. Adjusted for inflation, it’s pretty much on par to today’s prices vs income. What I didn’t have is $100,000 in student loan debt, rent that was 50% of my gross income and utility bills that were the equivalent of a weeks’ wages. The so-called “cost of living” today is well beyond the consumer price indexes. There are expenses today that simply didn’t exist 40 years ago.
Excellent deduction. Kind regards.
^^^ This right here!
My greatest luxury hobby now is paying bills and rent. I am such a posh.
You can afford those?! Omg! 😂😂
I think I would cut back on food before I give up motorcycles.
I could stand to lose more weight anyway
atleast youre not one of those RV boomers
they are the worst
I have a wife two kids three dogs and all I do is work. I bought a used 2013 Honda CBR 600rr with 2300 miles on it for $7000. I’ve had it for three or four years now and put a little over 2000 miles on it. I might ride once a month if I can gather the energy. Everything cost so much nowadays you have to work constantly just to survive, barely have time for fun. But I still will never get rid of my bike.
Smart man 👍
Good man, hopefully things will get better and we will ride safely and savingly ! Peace and good times to you and your family ✌️
👌👏❤️
Ride it to work if you can.
@@forthcoming-d8694 hopefully. I appreciate it. Stay safe
This was one of your best video's ever.
The local Harley dealership keeps trying to get me to “upgrade” from my ‘96 Yamaha Vmax to a sportster. I asked them why I would spend five times as much for a bike with less power and they basically said “because Harley!” $20k out the door is way too much for a toy.
20kb for a bike that cant even handle the hwy at that
If you are at a Harley dealer on a yamaha don't you think its their job to get you to trade up? You sound like they are knocking on your door once a week to try and get your 30yr old $5000 cruiser.. If they keep trying to get you to upgrade, maybe its because you really want one, otherwise, why are you even there??
@Clutch_Kick187 I was curious how good the new sportster was so I went for a test ride last summer. Since then they’ve texted me every two weeks for three months now. Even though I told them that I’m not interested they still reach out.
@ what did you think of it. It looks cool and if it was like 5-7k it would be a nice bike but 12kmsrp and basically 18k otd f no
@ didn’t like the clamshell position, but it was a fun bike and seemed well-made
Excellent video. I usually never comment but kuddos for this one. This is actually loaded with valuable content that reflects beyond trivia enough to make it informative.
Manufacturers just need to offer base models without all the farkles and nanny gadgets! It's a motorcycle! Just send it!
100% agree. EFI but no further. No launch control or GPS. No bluetooth or riders aids...it watered down what it means to ride a motorcycle. With all the farkles and gizmos it's just a 2 wheeled car at that point.
@@airgunbubba2505EFI and ABS, come on. But anything else, should be a boogy options. I can understand a car needing ESP with EBD too, but that's nothing something that has a place on a bike. Yes, the hardware doesn't take any additional place, and th software already exists, but the cost of tuning is unnecessary at "entry level". And let's not even go in the new fangled fad of aerodynamic appendixes!!
A lot of these “fancy” features have become mandatory in a lot of international markets, not to mention emissions compliance.
@@timh6845 This is where 80s and earlier bikes have an advantage, certainly in the UK, because they are exempt from emissions regulations, even in the big cities, where later vehicles are charged for entering if they don't comply.
Erm . . . EFI is now a fundamental part of the ICE and is probably a lot cheaper to produce than carbs. But that’s irrelevant to the cost of biking. If we look at the price of bikes in, for example, India compared to Europe and the US, you will see that it has nothing to do with the manufacturing cost. If you look at the cost of clothing and protection in the different markets, you will rapidly come to the conclusion that markets drive prices, not costs. Or, put it another way, cost and price are only distantly related. Take it from me, I’m a retired marketing exec.
Companies like Royal Enfield could really get a foot hold in the states due to their affordability.
Yes but they should increase their quality
@@DHAKSHQ___ u can't get both
@@DHAKSHQ___ Their quality has improved, it's good now.
They just announced like 6 new bikes for 2025, they are cooking
That doesn't sound very American Thing's have really changed in the last few years You guy's always had the best toys and the price didn't really matter
It’s all a matter of personal perspective. I have been an avid motorcyclist for 52 years, and have owned around 40 nice, dependable and perfectly capable bikes. I have crossed the country 3 times on them so far, and done pretty much everything else that can be done on motorcycles, both on road and off, alone and 2-up with Wifey. And the most I ever paid for one was $3,900.00. That was pre-COVID, but thousands of nice, low mileage used bikes are still out there, and great deals still abound for the savvy shopper that knows what bikes are the best value.
Well said
…Not everyone needs or wants a $30K Beemer.
40 bikes in 52 years? lol
@@user-bmw528it's possible. trading in, or selling bikes after a few months to a year, the bike doesn't lose much value or even make some profit if you are really savvy. I know a 27 year old kid who did this with around 15 bikes already.
@@user-bmw528 I always kept more than one. Got 5 in the garage right now.
Look at aviation if you want to see the effect of a shrinking market and reducing the supply of new models. The 30 year old Cessna training plane that sold for $20k 20 years ago is now a 50 year old plane going for $120k.
That’s crazy!
I live in Australia. I'm a former hanger rat. Your post prompted me to have a look at the classifieds here. I nearly fell off my chair. You couldn't give away an older Cessna (172/77/82)
10 years ago. They are worth their weight in gold, now. I remember one of our clients wondering if $40k Aud was too much for a 177 with 1000 hours to go on the engine (no idea about the airframe). My boss said it's "not a bad buy" and he grabbed it. It's a $200+k plane now! And you want to see what Beech Bonanzas are fetching! Unbelievable.
I don't think that motorcycling will get quite as bad as aviation, simply because motorcycling isn't regulated like aviation is. The regulatory requirements, like TSOs, drive up the prices of parts, assemblies, and complete aircraft. Plus, it's expensive to just get a license to be able to fly an airplane; a PPL will set you back like $15K-$20K now. Even boating is affordable in comparison.
@@markymarknj Yeah, one thing about motorcycling - particularly in the US is the bar to get licensed is VERY low. 250 bucks and a weekend of your time is all that's needed.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u yeah, and some time spent at DMV. Compared to Europe, the UK, Japan, and other countries, getting a motorcycle endorsement is easy, as there's no tiered licensing system in place. It's totally legal for a newly licensed motorcyclist to buy a 600 or liter bike. If either the new motorcyclist has some sense or the dealer has some ethics and morals, that won't happen. Ideally, the newly licensed motorcyclist will realize that buying a liter bike is a bad idea, or hopefully the dealer has enough ethics and morals to not sell such a bike to someone who just got their license.
As someone who's a libertarian and minimal gov't person that's against licensing of any sort (for drivers, riders, professionals, etc.), I like that the licensing is minimal here. OTOH, I hate it when people get a big bike, even if it's a cruiser, for their first bike. The notion that the 883 H-D Sportster is suitable as a first bike is LUNACY to me! The same goes for the thinking that the Sporty is a "girl's bike". When I hear such talk, I cringe.
When I was younger, it was understood that you'd start small, then work your way up as you learned; while there wasn't a tiered licensing system in place to force people to do this, it's what they did. You started out on a 90, 100, or 125, and you got some experience. Then, you'd step up to a 250. Next would be a 500. Only then would a motorcyclist think of getting a 650 or 750. When I was a kid, the original Honda 750 was a big bike that you worked your way up to; you didn't think about starting out on something like that.
Fighter pilots don't start out flying an F-16; they work up to it. They start out on a simple, basic trainer, move up to a bigger and faster trainer, then a jet trainer. Only then are they ready for the F-16. The same should apply to motorcyclists. Even without a tiered licensing system in place, motorcyclists should start small and work their way up.
I found this out when I bought my first bike this past summer. I'm in my 30's and had been wanting a bike since I was 18. I remember looking back then and seeing higher end bikes were sub $10k. Now oof some of them cost the same as a full car.
Wait 'till you see what a new car costs today!
Which bike did you buy?
The used market is decent enough though. £5k will get you a very good bike from 00’s -10’s
Every now and them Yammie puts out a video that has great insights. This be one of them!
Thanks YN! Great video!
Here in the UK, younger riders face expensive training, huge Insurance and the inconvenience of poor weather...So hard for entry folk. Often taking up driving cars later in life.
I'm 25 and I've just done my licence and its not very welcoming. training school, instructors and examiners have like a hatred towards you and make out that your an inconvenience to there day. The only reason i got the licence is because i hate traffic and i needed the upgrade so i could use motorways and what not. but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone id just say get a car unless your like me and hate sitting in traffic.
Criminally excessive dealer mark-ups/fees, price gouging insurance companies, & a lack of interest by manufacturers in curbing that behavior accounts for the huge part of market loss. You go in for new Ninja 500 & the dealer wants to extort you with $1500-2000 “fees”. Then insurance companies wanna charge you rates within a hair of a 100+ horsepower super-sport.
For me a zx4rr cost about $200 less per year than a cbr600rr. The cbr650r cost about half.
Outside the US, for example here in the UK, the other problem is storage. Not every house has a garage, hell, not every house has a driveway or a designated parking spot. That means insurance for those people is significantly higher. Here they have also increased the barrier to enter the bike market - you now need to pass three different tests to get an A2 licence.
Here in the U.S storage is also a problem. Many people live in apartments or houses that dont have a garage. Bike theft is common in the larger urban areas.
My wife and I bought an mt07 each in April 2023 to reward ourselves for being married for 20 years. Since then we've ridden almost 30 000kms together on numerous trips to different places around our beautiful country (Australia). We don't have much money and so to do it we sacrificed her car bringing us back to a one car family and I ride mine every day, everywhere, rain, hail and shine. There are so many amazing bikes about and we are always constantly admiring them and saying "imagine owning that!!!" but at the end of the day we know no one could possibly be happier than us riding together on our mt07s. Awesome reliable, cool bikes, very affordable and plenty of bang for your buck. Perfect for us. I've put 40 000kms on mine and had a grin from ear to ear for every kilometre I've done. Just happy to be riding.
Congrats on the marriage. I hope to find a woman myself. Currently I only have motorcycles. 2 bikes and no other vehicle. In America I guess women frown upon that and think we arnt a person for it.
@@theenzoferrari458 Thank you mate. Yeah I think I just got lucky. I don't envy single blokes in this day and age. Women have kind of......changed a bit😳 So what bikes have you got?
I think part of the problem is that most people think that anything less than 800cc is a "beginner" bike and is unusable for anything other than commuting. It wasn't that long ago when people were touring across the U.S. on 500cc-750cc bikes.
Spot on. There are folks touring around the world on Vespas, Honda C70/C90 and similar bikes.
This 💯
One of the many reasons I started on a 150cc scooter. Was able to buy a nicely used scooter in my area for $350. Used that for 2 summers, saving money until I was able to buy a used 2016 Honda CTX700 for $2700.
I recommend scooters for first time riders as they are cheap and easy to maintain, then when you have saved enough cash, upgrade to a bigger bike.
Been on lambrettas for years...totally agree
Not to mention how easy they are to ride. Great for getting used to riding. Plus, I love scooters.
New scooters are criminally expensive as well these days.
Besides, they are lame.
Yes, I started on a Vespa, I was filtering the other day on my Triumph, and thought, "good thing I learned that on the Scoot". I still have my BV 400 as my grocery/errands bike, no car.
@@grtbgf Lame? 😂 The most practical vehicle, period. We just don't have the landscape. I've done 600 mile trips on my BV 400, comfortable, easy to ride, storage, easy on gas. I know plenty of motorcyclists that own both. In the city, there's nothing better.
You’re forgetting about insurance yammie! In Texas you can get a let’s say $15-$20-$25k motorcycle with $300-$480 monthly payment plus the insurance being $400!! It’s insane!
I just do liability only on my xsr900. 8 dollars a month. Don’t crash or get it stolen!
Why do Americans buy everything on monthly payment?
@@Mr_Glenn Houses yes. Your first car (used!) yes. Pretty much anything else, DO NOT finance.
@@michaelfink2070 Totally depends on interest rate. My mortgage is like 3.4%. Car loan is 0% (for 72 months!) Summer 2020 was a good time to buy, when car companies were still terrified). Financing a new Audi at 6.5% right now though? lol nope.
@MrFirstonraceday exactly. you can crash and burn a motorcycle every few years for what you pay in full coverage
Boycott all vehicle buying for 3 months and we will suddenly see reasonable prices
In the automotive industry, something as short as a 3 month buying halt would definitely make a major cost change.
I’ve boycotted it my whole life. Hasnt done much.
Nah they'll just jack up the prices even more
@@stewie84
Yeah? Boycotting them in the West will have no effect on their sales elsewhere. If they don't make a profit, they'll simply stop supply to that region.
@@Mark-l9k9q that's why Ford doesn't give the US the cool hatchbacks.
I ride my bike to work most days (34 miles one way). Almost every time I walk into the building carrying my helmet and wearing my gear, someone will say something like "I can't believe you ride a motorcycle on the highways during rush hour. I would never do that." This is even from people who own a bike and use it for a trip to the coffee shop on Saturday. The problem is that most Americans cannot think of a motorcycle as transportation. With that mindset, you don't need that "practical middle".
You’ve got to ride to stay alive. Good to see someone else who rides every day.
same, i ride everywhere no matter the weather. Heck i take my cfmoto nk300 to 550km one way trips now and then. I'd rather be free and a bit cold or wet rather than being stuck in public transit for hours.
Riding motorcycles in America is absolutely treacherous, and especially since motorcycle/scooter numbers are generally low compared to huge world cities in South America and Europe, drivers aren’t USED to motorcycles like they are in foreign countries I’ve ridden/driven in.
I ride in Atlanta, which is dogshit madness every time I ride. I honestly wish I didn’t love riding so much.
When I rented a motorcycle recently in Cape Town, South Africa - I had the most incredible riding experience on an unfamiliar bike, riding on the left side of the road (first time). Drivers there were SO conscious and careful with motorcycles/scooters. Not ONCE in the 16 hours of riding (city and mountains) did a car put me in danger, did a driver not notice me, did I pass someone texting. In fact, they scoot over in the lane to let you pass, which tells me they are looking in their mirrors constantly and being aware of their surroundings.
Driving in ATL is fucking hilarious compared to Cape Town or even Buenos Aires. Absolute danger and disgrace, and I’ve been putting my dirtbike on the truck and driving 1.5 hours to ride in the woods because this city steals my fun.
Really good and balanced conversation about this topic. Your delivery is way above par, easy to listen to packed w/ information. Yeah something is definitely up in my neck of the woods w/ affordability. And in the same breath you have to figure in the fear value a lot of people have about the dangers in this mad car world. So yeah, the two big issues in my mind. Thanks Yam......
picked up a new 23 SDR Evo, yes it is overpowerd, yes it costed double the price of my car, yea it eats tyres like crazy and yes it took me some years to get it but damn it is a pure fun bike. The suspension is straight up magic, the engine is a blast and the fact that you know no matter what comes along your way on the street you can destroy them is gold. I have no regrets.
I just got a new back tire and between the tire and the work its over $500 which is just crazy imo
One of the problems included in affordability but not mentioned is insurance costs. Which keep getting more ridiculous year on year.
All the magazines talk about how supersports are dying, but nobody brings up that insurance is outrageous.
Here in Phoenix it's like 200-400 a month. I'm 34, married, with a clean driving record and I was quoted 250 a month for a Zx6.
I pay less than $300 a year for all 3 of my bikes. One is a 2022 and the other two are 2023’s. May be cheaper because I live in NC. I hear Florida insurance is crazy.
@@justinsmith623depends on the bike and part of Florida too though. I payed like 60 for full coverage on a newer supermoto and a beginner bike. My zx6 policy was only like 80 bucks but it was an 06
@@justinsmith623 I had a bike insured in FL, it wasn't bad. Granted, it wasn't a supersport, but still, at least some motorcycles in FL aren't crazy expensive to insure.
Insurance cost is the biggest factor when it comes to buying a new bike for me. A cbr650r was cheaper than a mt07 per year for me.
Well, it's bloody simple and motorcycles are just one of the many examples of the trend: over time less people accumulate more wealth, so the average purchase power drops. You have less and less pople that can afford mid and high range goods, with a small group that can afford more and more.
Second Gilded Age, plain and simple.
You can see the same thing in the UK.
It's like the game of Monopoly but in real life!
I am a teacher. My students (high school students) are simple not interested in motorcycles.
Typical gen z trash killing off the culture.
Until they watch one video and their whole TikTok feed turns into motorcycles… Happened to me. 😅
Different breed nowadays 😂 🕺
they don't even like cars unless there expensive and show a false sense of wealth. im 25 so still young and i see people my age or slightly older or younger who don't even like bikes or even acknowledge they exist. they'd rather have a BMW on a 5 year loan lol.
Can't afford the insurance they want to charge a new rider these days anyway.
This is your best video imho. Maturing into a thought provoking commentator. Nice analysis too, thanks.
Another thing about paying the high motorcycle prices is that, unless you live somewhere like Florida, you can only ride about half of the year because of weather and temperatures.
I ride all year around in London. Plenty of people do.
@tomblewomble3369 Here in the states, especially the northern states, it gets too cold and then there's the ice and snow.
I do all year in Utah. Most people in Utah live 10-20 miles from a ski resort. Weather is a bs excuse.
@Godric_71 it's been 0c here all week, though I appreciate the weather can be more extreme in the US.
@@tomblewomble3369yes plenty of people do. But when bikes are view has a luxury and not alternative transportation in the state. Because of that less people will be willing to ride in the cold.
Excellent report. I've owned 28 bikes since 1972, and am AMAZED how prices have skyrocketed. TOO MUCH FANCY TECH! I own a GSF1200 Bandit (I've had three)- air cooled, carbureted and simple. With a little tweaking they are the BEST model I've ever owned, for value. In 1998, MSRP was $7200.
Learning to work on your own bike can help keep riding affordable. Its helped me save thousands over the years.
The proliferation of finance products in the EU and USA has added to the creep in new bike prices - few people really 'buy' a bike now and there's less emphasis on the screen price than there is on the monthly repayments. I got my first new bike in 2016 and it never really felt that it belonged to me - because it didn't.
Tried to buy a new bike for 3 years but the budget just got sucked off by something else (basic living needs) You comments are right on the money:
We didn't recover from 2008. The government papered over the problem with money printing and the amount of money in the system went up, mostly in the financial industry, but the actual economy and manufacturing never recovered.
Yup, a decade later people barely financially recovered from 2008 when the banks got bailed out with the people's money.
Then in 2020 the workers again got screwed while corporations got more bailouts (the largest wealth transfer in human history).
As Americans, we really need to come together and do something about it.
Corparate Greed destroyed the motorcycle community. Companies keep raising prices to keep up with inflation, but don't want to pay their stafff any more and refuse to raise the pay to keep up with the price increases.
I’m 23 and some “old head” advice…. I have a 5 year old GSXs 750. Paid cash. Practically brand new and half price vs a brand new version identical with different fairings and dash/lights. Both brand new(my old version is as well) couldve financed a BRAND NEW SUPER SPORT. I chose to buy a cheaper smaller cc that I can actually afford and have fun on bc I’m not scared to death what’s gonna happen if something happens to it. I do have full coverage but the advice here is…. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I would rather ride my bike hard and enjoy it than have a brand new 10k plus bike of any kind. I want to own a house. I want to own a prospering business. I wanna take my kids on vacations I never got to go let alone imagine. I want to treat my wife. We should all continue to put our foot down and not buy these giantly overpriced over luxed bikes. I believe the huge loads of electronics should be a finance option not a mandation…. And thus makes manufacturing cheaper/faster and makes them more money selling electronic kits to dealers thus making them the same profits with less labor involved ON THEIR END and more money available to dealers thru mechanics
In my country if you look at Harley owners they are mostly directors, ceo's, dentists... harley in my country is basically unfordable for majority of working class. Cheapest harley is 18k.
If you have money but also a family it's an expensive toy that will be used once a while during summer weekend. Majority of people are riding 10+ yo middle class bikes and 125cc (my 1st one was CB 125R used).
Weather is also often factor... right now it's winter and I switch from my XSR to tram... it's not like california where you can ride whole year.
Love how you're talking about how the cars/bikes we buy are not getting that much more expensive, it's just that income inequality combined with a higher percentage of income going to rent/mortgages leads to the median American no longer being a viable market for these companies. Cars/bikes themselves are better than ever before, it's a demand-side issue.
These crazy prices of new bikes have me eyeballing CFMoto's lineup.
Exactly what the communist government in China wants u to do
Yam... you have come a long way my guy! Very good video
Bikes as a flex are only maybe a flex for other riders. To the rest of the non riding world any bike is a flex. Younger people are struggling to make payments on 15 year old Civics. The last thing on their mind is a vehicle they won't use year round but have to pay on year round.
My form of flexing is lane filtering during rush hours! Don’t matter which bike I’m riding.
@@matthewtrinh4872 yep....! 🤣
I like how in movies from the 50s or 60s there was this notion that women were really into guys with motorcycles...😅 I have literally never had a single woman even remotely interested in the fact that I ride. Had to explain this to my ex wife-- the only attention I'm getting is from other guys on bikes and small children
@@deadsirius3531 So true. Out of hundreds of interactions while out riding only a small handful were women and of those only a few were more than a quick "Love the color" or "Nice bike". I did have one little old lady come up to me when I had a sportbike and she went on and on about how she missed riding hers but quit 15 years before
Here in Aus, a Jacket, jeans & armour just cost me $500 on a Black Friday sale. Still need a helmet, gloves, boots; so there’s another $1k probably. Learners permit course costs $500, mandatory check ride $280, licence assessment course $320. So I’m in the hole over $2500 before I even consider buying a bike
What the hell is mandatory check ride? I got my full bike license in Aus/VIC over a decade ago, so I'm not familiar with this.
@ “As from April 2nd 2016 under the Motorcycle Graduated Licensing Scheme (M-GLS), anyone who has obtained their Learners Permit and wants to obtain their motorcycle licence must also complete a 'Check Ride' prior to undertaking a motorcycle licence course.”
Brilliant analysis. Thank you for your content. Love the background music too. keep up the great work.
I won’t even pay $20k for a new car so there’s no way I’m paying $15k for a motorcycle. Everything is getting turned into a dang video game on wheels these days and the prices reflect that.
Price of the bike is one thing, the fees on top are another. Motorcycle Dealers will easily add $2,000 worth of Dealer Processing Fee, Set up or PDI Fee, jacked up tag and title fees and more. Go to a Dealer in a small town where your business will be appreciated and the fees would be much lower. Stay away from Brands and Dealers that hide the Destination Fee (Ducati is one of them). Do NOT pay set up fee for BMW bikes because Dealers get reimbursed by the Manufacturer. Do not go for those 84 months, 96 months finance terms for low payments. You will be paying 30% to 50% of the bike's value in interest rate. And that is where the Dealer makes a killing. Don't be afraid of shopping around. Currently many manufacturers are offering very low rates to clear the 24 models, even 23 models. Ducati has 0%, BMW has 0% on certain models, Harley has $3K cash back on some of the Touring bikes. So, find the deals, make a deal end enjoy the ride.
Never finance toys. Never. If you need a motorcycle as your form of transportation then maybe, but as a toy; hard no.
Fellow Brazilian here. It's very interesting how different motorcycle feels here in the US vs Brazil. I used to ride in Brazil to save money on fuel and taxes. Here in the US, it's just a hobby that i spend money on. In some ways, i miss some aspect of riding in Brazil.. that being that you almost didn't have to follow any rules... Lane splitting, running red lights, speeding, etc... no one cared. Of course, the accident rate there ... proportional to the lack of rules
🤣🤣 it’s called discipline.
You can do much more than cars, but you must do it with care in the states.
I agree. I bought a bike that is capable of going all around the world twice in a dependable manner, 7 years old but only 16k on it and hardly a mark, it has super handling, 120bhp, FOR £7,500. In 1983 my dad, RIP, bought an MZ East German 150 cc which would have fallen apart at 30k miles, and had terrible electrics and was always giving problems in the winter. Very basic tyres that offered low grip and very poor drum brakes. It was, in terms of his salary, and adjusting for inflation, as expensive as my purchase.
MZ are used in Cuba to this day, the exact same ones from East Germany.
not having a ton of money for a motorcycle when I got back into it a couple years ago i bought a 2003 BMW F650CS for less than $2500. This bike while not the coolest checked all the boxes for me, fuel injection, ABS, and no chain to maintain (belt drive). I bought this bike after not having a bike for 25 years. My bike back then was a 1983 Kawasaki GPZ750.
Two years ago, I bought an 03 BMW K1200GT with 23k miles for $3600. Lots of relatively low mileage (for how many miles bikes will now run) are on the market at reasonable prices. Doing some or all of the maintenance yourself helps too, but even at that parts and gear are priced as a luxury item. I made some changes in my life and found by giving up some things, I have plenty of money for a motorcycle.
I bought a new KLR in 2018. Not a performance machine, but a great “do anything” bike and it was $8,000 CAD out the door. And it’s a lot of fun.
I bought a new Suzuki GSX-8R this year. Out the door cost including 7% sales tax was a little over $10,000. It was definitely on the high end of what I wanted to pay. (I took Suzuki up on their 1.99% financing offer and kept the money I would have spent from savings in the bank where it was earning higher interest.) For me this bike has way more engine than I'll ever need; I could have bought something less powerful, but you've got to admit the GSX-8R looks pretty sweet. It's a very versatile bike that can be used for everything from grocery store runs to commuting to long distance touring. (It does need a better seat to be a competent tourer IMHO.) I'm hoping it, and other bikes at its price point and below are successful. And that the people who buy them learn to ride safely.
I just bought mine last month, first break in service done at 670 I have 800 on it now. Parking it for winter. The bike is amazing. I won't ever need a liter bike as I'm 39 no reason for it. Came from a vulca. 800 and the kiddos want me to get a cruiser again due to them back packing lol. But I love my bike!
@skittzi The more I ride the 8R the more I like it. The engine especially is fantastic, so user friendly. Mine is in the garage for the winter now too, looking forward to early Spring and more fun next year. Good luck with yours!
Definitely will. Saving up for the camera and Bluetooth so I can start making riding videos. I'm buying my stands in begining of December so I don't get flat spots on the tires. The more I learn the bike the more I find out how fun this engine is.
Yammie out here spreading class consciousness I love it
This is so real. And every time I've mentioned it, people say "buy used".
Every used motorcycle I've seen comes without a title (vermont closed the loophole), says "ran when I parked it"... OR is 10 years old, has 50k miles, and is only 5-10% less than a brand new model. Doesn't matter if I go to dealers, marketplace, or Craigslist.
That's why I'm more excited about Royal Enfield's last few years than just about any other manufacturer. The new Shotgun, the new Himalayan... Even if they're not what you're looking for they're great for motorcycling. Similar things with regards to CFMOTO and probably others I'm missing... expensive bikes make great posters, wallpapers and RUclips videos - but the most important segment for motorcycling as a whole is who makes the best affordable motorcycles. Which manufacturer can e.g. give you a punchy 500cc in segments where others give you a 300cc. Which manufacturer can give you adjustable suspension when others won't. That's exciting. How one 30K bike compares to another 32K bike is kindof irrelevant.
The Indians nailed it with the RE, plain and simple.
@ they're head turners too, I've got a Honda CB500X, my one friend a Suzuki VStrom, and our other friend has a Royal Enfield Classic 500. When we're on group rides nobody cares about the Honda or Suzuki... but people who know they're from this decade and those that don't keep looking at that bike. They absolutely nailed the classic styling. Nobody cares that it's got half the power of the Honda or a third of the Suzuki.
@@pieterrossouw8596 Styling and price, and they're still enough bike for the "real world" performance wise.
They might never be the best bike in the paddock, but they have set the benchmark
for bang for buck motorcycles that a wide audience will find amply enough for their needs.
The good thing is there's so much out there on the used private sale market because of people retiring from the hobby that you're par for choice to get a good used bike. I just got my first bike earlier this year and I spent about 3 months poking around trying to find something I liked. There's a lot of great bikes $5,000 and under on the market. I bought a 2006 BMW f650gs with 19,000 miles on it, garage kept and well taking care of for $2,300. It even had new tires on it, an upgraded brake system, a Corbin saddle and a full maintenance package done on it before I bought it.
It is why it’s best imho to buy one and take care r it and keep it. I have a 2015 KTM 1290 Super Duke R I purchased new in 2015. It is almost 10, will still do way more than I am capable of. Add the fact I am 66 and I sure don’t need anything better.
👍
I really appreciate this video, which gives us a good and neutral overview of where the world and economy are right now compared to the past.
Also appreciate mentioning Mv Agusta. A real gentleman and a scholar.
This basically goes for everything nowadays. Have you seen what cars/trucks are going for?
Agree. Same thing in cars and watches, everyone is eyeing the haves customers and jacking up prices and not wanting to service the middle market
1000c bikes should be around 11k max. The all zx10r pr r1 or take all others
Make sense! That is why I always watch your videos. Greetings from Philippines!
Philippines is even more expensive for motors. 😢
Try buying used with low kms 😇
The insurance and maintenance costs are killing me and I do 80% of the work on my bike by myself.
What bike?
..what bike and how old are you? Like, are you under 25 with a Ducati?
Insurance is just as much or more than the bike payment. Even at 34 married with no tickets, a 600cc Sportbike is 250 a month in insurance easy.
Yeesh, that sucks my dude. I paid $185 for the 12 month policy period, but I also don't have a 600CC sportbike.
@@Originalsinn_AOThat's about what I paid when I had my FZ6 and my Victory Octane.
But anything that can be crashed by squids or stolen is stupid expensive.
in india there used to be mainly 3,4 brands. But as off 2020 more and more brands have started to come into our market with the help of the existing brand. Even though harleys cost a lot in the us and is a luxury item but in india they have started to focus on smaller 450 cc motorcycle with the help of hero. Same for triump the engine u see in the speed and scrambler 400 are made by bajaj motorcycles with the help of existing engine. They share with ktm 390 , bajaj dominar , now triump to. Same collab with bmw and tvs motorcycle. Since the competiton for smaller motorcycle is really high in india so they had to collab with our brands. These motorcycles are then sold outside, thats why its so successful, if a thing works in india it is sure that it will work outside to. Same with Aprilia Rsv4. The middle part will surely come up a in the coming years
Just wait till the tariffs kick in!
You mean when taxes shift from the poor and middle class to foreign nations, driving up wages and bringing more production back to the US?
How about we just tax you 90% on income and no tariffs? All while th countries you buy your crap from has massive tariffs in shit you produce, so you can't sell your product in foreign markets at all
🙄😂😂😂
Tears will help forest fires 👍 but not here🤦♂️😆
I'm enjoying the new more sophisticated Yammie Noob content. So many other videos could spin out of this one. Here's an example of the challenges facing the industry; today I priced insurance for a 2022 MV Agusta F3 RR, $3900 a year for respectable coverage limits (not bare bones coverage)... More than double what I was already paying for three other bikes. Insurance is sky rocketing.
In the UK you could, up until 1983, go out and buy a 250cc motorcycle and ride it on learner plates. Two stroke 250s, such as the Yamaha RD could easily out accelerate nearly every car around. Pass your one part test and you could choose any bike. Not the same now. And those who bought the more powerful bikes did so because it was their only form of transport, not as a fun toy in addition to a car. The world has changed. Bikes are better than ever, but fast ones are unavailable to teen rebels without jumping thru hoops to pass various tests. The market is no longer there.
My first bike (not moped - Garelli step-through BTW) was a very secondhand MZ TS250. 250cc single 2 stroke in 1981. Even that could out accelerate most family cars on the road. It even had a welded on spanner and bolt for the gear lever! That was something I found out when I wanted to take the side case off 😂
@dowster64
Sounds like you had a deluxe model! I remember the MZ bikes. I worked with a guy who had one. He was always extolling the virtues of them. On first seeing one I thought "Fck me. Looks like it's been fabricated out of a dustbin and scaffolding pipes."
"up until 40 years ago"😂
As usual Papa Yam you're bang on correct with this video. 🎉💪🏻
Give me my '13 GSXR-750, and I'm fine. Fast enough for thrills, safe enough even without all the nanny options that just increase the cost on not only initial purchase, but maintenance as well. I don't know who the hell can afford to purchase a Panigale or a M1000RR in their 20's/30's without sacrificing other aspects of their lives to the detriment of their financial wellbeing. Even if they can, is it even worth it? Is there much of a difference between 180mph and 200mph? For me, it's taking a nice sweeper leading into a hairpin, and I don't need a $40k or $50k bike that goes ~200mph to enjoy that ride.
Great vid yam! The issue is people have bought things they can't (or shouldn't be willing to) afford for far too long, leaving companies like Harley thinking they will be ok. But once the market is no longer buying, the companies will have to adjust to the market, like triumph is trying with the 400, or die. I say let it happen.
It's not just buying them, it's servicing costs too. I was quoted around $400 to change the coolant. (And that's with the gas tank and all the plastics already removed)
You nailed it. I spent 10 years traveling to rural Nicaragua, and I watched the locals go from horseback to bicycle to motorcycles under 200cc. Out of necessity, there are mechanics all over and almost as many females as guys riding. Getting your bike repaired or serviced is fast, easy and cheap. Oil change on my Yamaha FZ 150 sportbike was literally $5.
Even just parts are crazy. My daughter bought a 2006 CBR600RR and the brake pads were more expensive than my F250.
Same here. Asked for a quote to change out my air filter. $280. I don’t even make that much in one day. I took a couple of hours on the weekend and did it myself!
@@byronn.2885because they aren't mass produced. The most expensive glass on your car is the smallest piece, the quarter glass on your back door. Because it's produced in the smallest numbers. Everything is like that.
@@Mikaeel84 To some degree yes. However there are many parts that are used over a large span of years which does create a more mass produced item.
Very interesting and insightful video, especially the historic bit I know very little about as from a younger generation. I'm a low middle class biker and am certainly feeling the worry and stress of if i can even afford it as my only vehicle long term.
Hey yam, from India here.. So basically, all these really premium brands like Harley and Triumph and KTM have come to India and have done some colabs with Indian manufactures like Bajaj and Hero, and like over here, we get this Harley bike called the X440 for like 4000$ on road, and its good for upto 90mph.. and we all know the success story of triumph.. So me personally? I feel like manufactures are realising that the higher end of the market isnt that keen on a motorcycle, whereas u have some 25 year old who will put down the cash to buy a really fun and peppy bike and sell like 50000 of them every year
In the US, well maintained top end bikes from a decade ago can be had for a few thousand dollars. We aren't required to get a small bike for cheap.
@@logangodofcandy again, i did mention india right.. So basically here the 400+ CC bikes are the premium bikes... and like those are really good
I ride a RE Scram 411. First bike I ever owned, @ 57 years old. I ride once a week for the most part and pretty soon I'll be outgrowing it. Only 25 hp and 5 gears but has been the "right choice" for a starter like me. Knowing what I know now, I should have started on something like the Triumph 400 scrambler or so. The decision to start on the Scram 411 was the price, of course about $4000 for a brand new bike.
I think that Chinese and Indian bikes will become more popular in the US, just because of affordability.
For the record… North America is a credit driven society. Our houses are mortgaged, we lease our cars and boats can be amortized to 20 years! Hell, we even load our Starbucks App with our credit cards via Apple Pay. So why is it even remotely surprising that we finance bikes we can’t afford cash? The crazy thing in Canada 🇨🇦 anyways, is that a Yamaha, KTM or a Triumph are all as expensive as a Ducati. Why not buy a Ducati? … and not for the crazy credit numbers you mention, why not buy one for 3.99%?! For under $150 a paycheque you can ride around on a Ducati bro. Or better yet, how about a KTM off brand like Husqvarna or Gasgas 700?? Guess what, they are already on sale for thousands off thanks to their parent company woes. I picked up a new GasGas ES 700 for $12K CDN while the same KTM 690 was almost $17K…the same bike and I don’t even like orange!
The bigger question is moto is so cult … why do 20 and 30 somethings order $40 Skip the Dishes lunches daily and buy $1100 iPhones instead of buying new bikes??? I’ll age myself here … when I was young, I chose to spend less money on food and beer and rent just so I could ride. Same story at 55 (cue Gen X comments) … I have a nice modest house, I have money for my kids to go to college if they want to, and a midsize truck. Moderation young people … less really is more. More motorcycles!! 🤘🏼
I think a more accurate feel of how our economic system works is to play two games of Monopoly. In the first one, play from the beginning and see how well you do. In the second one, start in the middle of the game when everyone else has already bought up all the property.
I'm Gen X; everything we had was ridiculously cheap and easy. Rent, education, transportation, even dating was all mostly "just show up and you'll be fine." That's not what Mills and Gen Z is seeing.
I bought a 2023 Indian Scout Bobber precisely because, for the most part, it didn't have all that pricey high tech, traction control, different riding modes, blah, blah & blah junk. I wanted a motorcycle that was relatively simple to work on, reliable & easy on the eyes. To me, all that fancy computer circuit board stuff represented potential failure points I couldn't fix myself & that meant I was tied to the dealer & their expensive diagnostic tools. No friggin' way. I wanna ride while I can, not have my bike do the riding for me.
Spring of 2025 will be the time to score great deals on used discretionary items. Motorcycles, boats, stereo components and the like.
I've been riding 19 years.. alot has changed in the uk.. roads conditions like pot holes.. dash cams. More traffic.. I currently own a 2007 ducati 1098. Bough it for the look the sound and the dry clutch. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I love it.. not really bothered if it draws attention.. more sound and so people hear me.. your right tho it's getting harder to justify with a little fa.ily and the crap uk weather we experience. But I will hang onto it untill I get too old to ride. But at 41 I am loving it
Affording a gallon of milk is becoming a luxury item too. Because the billionaires want it that way. People need to politically address the deflation of real wages over the last 40 years.
It's the constant tax cuts for the wealthy flowing all the cash to the top few percent....We'll have a "let them eat cake" moment soon enough....
i had no idea yammie was brazillian, Brazil Mentioned!!!
The economy taking a shit could also harken a renaissance of motorcycling, imagine if interest in motorcycling rekindled from people trying to save a buck, true mass adoption of bikes occurs in the USA, suddenly intensive investment in motorcycle manufacturing occurs and new threshold of speed, power, value, efficiency occurs
What do I need to dial into the time machine to get to that reality?
In the suburbs, 4 kids, house,
got a bike after 31 years... Now have 4! Track, touring, adventure and insane hypersport (H2)... Still love the idea of a Triumph Scrambler 400! Need to sell that to American Sunbelt youth as independent transportation option.... Go Yammie!
Most people hate driving as it is.. so you have to convince them that having zero protection, a good chance to die and a small bucket of money needing to be set on fire as well as a bunch of extra licensing steps are a good idea.
I despise driving, so I try and ride as much as possible.
But when I am lane filtering and I see people smoking joints, on their cell phones, eating and grooming it makes me wonder if riding is the safest option.
I'm so cheap my motorcycle is my only vehicle 😎💚😎
@@christopherking9338 ditto. I pay $200 a month for my motorcycle including payment and insurance... compared to almost every car possible, the payments are usually $300+ and then you have insurance.
"why spend 20k on a motorcycle when you can realistically only use 20% of its performance any given time on the street"
that's why I got a ZX4RR.
Yeah, I had a talk with someone about wanting an r3 or a ninja 500 and he responded that he wanted a litre bike. We live on a small island where you'd hardly find roads where you could utilize even 20% of smaller displacement bikes. It's just throwing away money
I inherited a 2008 Harley fatboy in 2016. I sold my 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 to put tire on my Fatboy. Also, wife said if I wanted to get a Hayabusa. I would need to sell it. I don't need more than 2 bikes. So, in 2019, I sold the Kawi. I finally got a 2004 Hayabusa this Oct. 2024. I am using it as my daily bike and take the Harley out on weekends when riding with friends.
I could not afford a new car. I really couldnt justify a used, questionably maintained, high mileage and overpriced used car. I bought a CRF300 rally. Its cheap to insure. It gets great mileage. It was a great and practical choice for me. I sunk a bit more cash into it to upgrade the suspension (and maybe a few other things). Still have ~9k in it all told. Plus its a swiss-army bike. It does everything and its great fun. Its loaded with features that you dont usually see at this price point. So, while motorcycling may look bleak in some aspects - it attracted me as a first time rider, because it was the most practical choice.
21 seconds ago is craaazy
1 min ago is diabolical
Agreed. Most people are never even going to recognize your bike passing by on the street and the average street bike looks cool and fast to everyone. 10:00
The Chinese are coming to the rescue, bikes like CF Moto and Kove are going to eat up the market share of the established brands…
You're so right! I feel like a lot of sport bike riders now are more nerds with extra cash to blow. I went on vacation in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand and everyone had one out of necessity. And I wish the US was like that.
Did you know Harley-Davidson to create the X440, a single-cylinder bike designed specifically for the Indian and other developing markets as an entry level bike? which cost ~$4000
I financed my 24’ MT07, I got all the bs from the dealer, full coverage, additional warranty, but that’s due to me being a new rider. Figured starting on a 689cc naked I could do with the extra protections, also helps my credit line for when I want to buy a newer truck. IMO buying new does have some decent perks, especially when you have little to no credit history 🤷🏻♂️ bikes are a helluva lot cheaper than cars and houses. Lol
Blame ourselves not the manufacturers. There is a lot of complaining online when a bike comes out without cruise control, heated grips, and 18 rider modes. We're getting exactly what we've asked for.
I bought 2 new bikes in the 80s, a 1981 KZ 750 and a 1987 CBR 600F. Both of those bikes were best in class in terms of performance. Adjusted for inflation, the prices of those bikes is comparable to what you can get today, although the Kawasaki at, I believe, $2750 was a particularly good bargain, probably in no small part because the engine was basically a punched out KZ 650. Despite having no money in the 80s, I was able to get my hands on those bikes. Today, a bleeding edge middleweight bike just feels a lot harder to reach. I guess it's a good thing I'm an old man now and not so hellbent on min/maxing.
Minimum wage isn’t meant for adults to live on. It’s meant for high school kids
Wait till you see Singapore prices for motorcycles. Kawasaki Ninja 400 ZX-4R cost almost SGD$20,000 (USD$14,800+) , Triumph Speed 400 SGD$23,000 (USD$17,000+) excluding insurance and you can only use them for 10 years. Want to renew the Certificate of Entitlement (COE) for 10 more years ? pay another SGD$9000.00 (USD$6780) based on current price for COE
45sec ago yoo what
Because many motorcycle manufacturers are focusing on the high end of the market, Royal Enfield is CLEANING UP! Royal Enfield is doing so well because they're producing high quality, good looking, easy to maintain, fun bikes that are affordable. Plus, their bikes are more about the essence of what motorcycling has been about.