Why there won't be another Flashman movie.
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- Опубликовано: 11 ноя 2024
- In this packet why there won't be another Flashman movie made.
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Apologies if this has already been suggested. I would see Flashman best suited to a long Netflix series with the storey opening in an Ashby sales room with a surprised GMF finding the dusty packets of handwritten manuscripts and developing from there the two strands of the conceit in the proposition of Flashy’s historical factual existence and the actual historical events. Netflix has tackled edgy unpalatable themes in other series such as the violence and human destruction of the drug world in Narcos and Breaking Bad and surely its about time that history was given a warts and all take but told via the captivating adventures of our anti hero?
For all of the reasons previously stated it is hard to conceive of a new Flashman film, but a long running series which takes time to build an audience could be a runner. It would have time to explore the relationship between Flashy and Elspeth against the racey social times of the early Victorian era. The recurring themes of Flashy and the Royal family would also stimulate viewing interest, interspersed with his overseas adventures. It may be that series would deviate somewhat from the stories as they are presented in book form, but GMF might enjoy his creation reaching a vast new audience through a different means?
I agree Colin we everything you say. Netflix would be a much better home for Flashy. And the subject matter ticks all the boxes. If they do attempt it I just hope they do it justice.
not sure about Netflix as they got burnt on Marco Polo, and would water it down, i see Amazon (regardless that i cant stand bezos) a better fit, or maybe apple as they are willing to take risk with unordinary scripts
I thought at the least they'd make a Cornwell/Sharpe TV series 🤔
@@nigelnelsonmccann1076 After what Amazon did to LOTR I would not let them anywhere near Flashman.
I cannot but agree Colin!
I have a letter from George MacDonald Fraser which I treasure. He wrote to thank me for a letter I wrote to him. He was a true gentleman and a brilliant writer.
That's a real treasure Mark!
When the first Flashman book came out I heard an interview with the author on the Today radio program and he had hysterics about an American university post grad history student who wanted to find out more about Flashman not knowing he didn't exist.
I'd rather have no Flashman film than a bad or unfaithful Flashman film
I’m listening to Timothy West’s recording of Flashman and the Great Game and it is a complete joy! Your comments regarding the possibility of a film version are so apt and I cannot agree more! A documentary introduction of 19th century history would be a prerequisite and hardly a draw for a mainstream audience. Far better for the mellifluous tones of a great actor relating the books to an audio audience and to allow the descriptive excellence that is the hallmark of MacDonald Fraser`s writing to paint the mental pictures!
Absolutely love Timothy West's Flashman audiobooks on cassettes. Now quite hard to find. Gave up on Audible versions, especially dire Toby Stephens efforts.
It’s complete lunacy that they even considered it. The budget to get it 1/2 right would be insane! It lives best in the imagination any way. The incredible detail & devillrey is what makes it so thrilling. Flashy & GMF would hate that they’re remembered as a film or tv series. Read the books, there’s just nothing like them!
Sad but probably true and thanks for uploading. However, if there is one GMF book that could be made on a reasonable budget and a film I would love to see, it would be Black Ajax. GMF paints a lurid and detailed picture of the regency period and the elite's obsession with boxing and fighters of the day. Alas, we would only see Captain Buck up to no good but I think, period drama, boxing and the amazing individual narratives of Pad Jones and Bill Richmond etc would be captivating.
I'm 48 and only just discovered Harry Flashman (in the Angel of the Lord). Where has he been all my life??
Never too late to discover Flashman. Read Flash for Freedom and then Redskins....and then start from the start.....
You've got nowhere to go but up then. Flashman and the Angel of the Lord
& Flashman and the Dragon are the weakest of the 12 books, but even they
have sections of strong material amid some long slow passages. Flash for
Freedom!, Flashman at the Charge & Flashman and the Redskins are best.
Hi Dagdrum5 I think I'd have to disagree on Angel and Dragon being the weakest. Flashy expertly taking the Ferry and the struggle inside Joe as he swaps sides for me are great bits. Also for the description of the Summer Palace in Dragon. But you've hit the best right on the button.
@@FlashmansStudy Thank you for being being open to discussion. What hurt Angel of the Lord
was being broken into three parts. The first 150 pages had the conclusion of Flashy's dealing
with John Charity Spring which began in Flash For Freedom then continued in the first of the
two novellas comprising Flashman and the Redskins. Angel of the Lord, the longest Flashy
novel at over 400 pages, follows then with a 150 page segment in the middle where Brown's
gang and Flashy do little but sit around waiting in a barn for the Harper's Ferry main event to
commence in the final 100 pages when the action reignites. The same more-or-less happens
in the Summer Palace section of Dragon where the descriptions are seemingly endless while
nothing of consequence occurs, Flashy marks time awaiting the cavalry's arrival---except this
time burdened by human cruelty so intense it's hard to read. It ceases to be entertainment
regardless of how factually accurate it may, or may not, be. Similar cruelty reoccurs in Great
Game and On The March as Fraser puts our hero through his formulaic paces again. All those
books are told in segments like Angel of the Lord in which characters are introduced, play a
small role then disappear from the narrative to make room for new players until [maybe] a
denouement reappearance before the novel concludes.
I love the premise of the books and devoured half of them in two weeks in 2012 and had to
leave off till this year where I finished the other six in a concentrated lump in a three week
period. To cap it off I read Fraser's The Pyrates, a ridiculous comedy that only a writer of
Fraser's caliber could hope to make succeed. I don't advise reading the Flashman series
the way I did. It's like eating nothing but dessert for too long before opting for a salad.
Hi @@DAGDRUM53, love to discuss anything Flashman and thanks for seriously getting involved. I do see your points but a story in 3 acts is a time honoured method. I find that when Fraser lingers on something he is trying to establish a premise. The gruesome torture and violence does get a but much sometimes, I find myself skipping over sections of the Great Game because I know they were based on real accounts. But I think that's the point, you build the bad guy up for the fall. As for the Summer Palace, the beautiful descriptions serve to show how difficult a decision it was to make and how it's still ringing down the ages. In life I guess it's all shades of grey rather than black and white and Fraser often makes that point through Flashy.
I couldn't finish the Pyrates, it was too slapstick for me. Have you read his war biography Quartered safe out here? That is a great book and you can see how he drew on this his experiences for Flashman.
I'm pissed that your arguments made so much sense. I didn't really enjoy the one movie made, but would certainly go to any further ones.
We are probably a very limited audience, and not getting any larger!!
What I found interesting... and very disconcerting, was that the last 3 Flashman novels grew increasingly dark (when compared to the first novels) and Flashman grew into something beyond a miserable rake; writer Fraser turned him into a monster, sometimes with the behavior of a frightening psychopath. I had the feeling that the novelist had grown tired of Flashman (like Conan Doyle with Sherlock Holmes), and only continued writing as a way to satisfy fans, but he was also getting back at us, and he turned Flashman into something very repellent by the final novel. Plus I had the feeling he was rushing the narrative (as if he didn't know how many more books he had left in him) and wanted to cover all the ground he had hinted at in his earlier books. I certainly expected much more on the battle of Rorke's Drift, etc., etc. Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts. And I'm proud to have first editions of every book.
The great internal conversations of Harry Flashman are beyond most film scores.
Remember that George Fraser said he thinks but doesn't act like Flashman.
As a mental exercise, I inject certain obscure Civil War figures into his missing novel.
I am glad that he avoided the subject so that my imagination isn't limited--tragic anyway.
It's such a shame yet a blessing as well, you see I would love to our lovable cad of a anti-hero being seen on the big screen. Then again I would be worried about how they would execute it, after all what if they would try to perverse the character and the adventures he takes place in just so they could promote their own political agendas. Just like the books themselves, it would be a feat to make a faithful adaptation of the series.
Yep, have to agree. I'd love to see a big Flashman movie but would hate to see it spoilt. What I would really love is the missing packets written.
Im an aspiring filmmaker so i sure hope no one gets to it before I do. I fell in love with the flashman character. I think he is a more real portrayal in some ways of the indiana jones/ bond archetypes. Theres something horrific and dark about him. It reveals the way the west views nature and its place in it, amd i think, a pervailent sense of british entitlement.
Flashman is great because it pits Flashman's ever present sense of psychopathic self preservation against the 'virtuous heroes' of the day. What makes it brilliant is Flashman, although being a womanizing cad, is often times the most innocent guy in the room. Those around him are usually power hungry monsters or useful brave tools of the monsters. So the series is really a brutal and dark mirror that the Victorian era must face itself with.
I just finished the series and I think I will read it again!
Sadly, I think you’re right. I was introduced to Flashy when the film was first released and I was a teenager, that got me into reading the books. It was only then that I realised the film just did not do the book justice, although like you, I still have a soft spot for it. Personally, I think it would be better if each book was made into a TV series. However, for all the reasons you state, I think that is unlikely.
I think you are spot on for a TV series, especially as they are attracting huge budgets and can be targeted to those who might want to watch.
Flashman would only work if he broke the fourth wall and spoke to us directly.
Yes Andy, I agree.
This was the major problem in the 1970s movie Royal Flash. What makes Flashman so funny is his internal dialogue vs how he presents himself. That is really the foundation of the books.
I think with modern tech and the big budgets of companies like NetFlix ,a tv series could be possible .This would allow time to reveal his character and put his views and life style in context .Also the history could be better dealt with
Who would be the best actor to play John Charity Spring?
Gene Hackman
Sam Elliot if he could nail the rage and eccentricity.
John Lithgow.
Problem being Flashy needs a huge budget.
I fear you may be right. And it may be for the best, in the end. The movies I have in my head will have to be enough. Oh, and a cigar if you please.
Good points, and, alas, it would seem that you're spot on. Ah, well, back to the novels. I'm re-reading as many as I can find - for not the first time!
You can't be a good book!
Brilliant, thoughtful video, bravo! My two cents: I think it's possible to make a good Flashman novel, but the right book would have to be selected. For example, 'Flash for Freedom' features a subject matter that is just too incendiary for today's cinema. Personally, I think 'Flashman and the Dragon' would be a perfect choice. It's not too controversial and features the argument about burning the Summer Palace from both sides. The French general is outraged at the suggestion, but Elgin makes a decent case, particularly when the brutal torture and murder of British soldiers and Sepoys is taken into account. Also, it would be very educational. I think most people don't know about the Taiping rebellion or the Manchu dynasty and would be fascinating to an uninitiated audience.
One problem with any Flashman film is that a large proportion of the stories take place in the thoughts of Harry Flashman himself. His worries, secret observations and plots are part of what I love about Flashman. Without a tacky voiceover, I'm not sure how this could be portrayed to the audience. As far as outer appearances go, Flashman is often going along with the program but is secretly plotting escape or the shirking of his duty. It's not impossible to portray this in another way, but would not be easy.
As far as who should play old Flashy, how about Tom Hiddleston? He has the looks of Flashman and he's also 6,2 so he would pass muster as a dashing British officer. He's posh and well spoken, so that covers Flashman's background and dialogue. He also plays a Loki, a rogue in the Marvel films so he has played an anti-hero before.
Some great points here tbone35453. Dragon has got a bit of stick over the years as being a weaker book but I love it. I read a bit more about Chinese history of the period when doing research for the channel and it is really interesting. What a big market to play into as well, so perhaps financial backing would be easier for this one. I'm putting together a video right now about Flash for Freedom and it would be a bit divisive. Dragon would be a great opener.
I didn't consider the problem of the books being told as a memoir and essentially playing out in Harry's head. This would be difficult to do but I think with the right casting as the old General it could be told with a voice over as he looks back. I can see the problem though, linking the scenes together would be easy but how would you convey Harry's internal feeling of horror and external red faced bluff understated bravery within the scenes....tricky! Glad i'm not writing the screenplay 😀 .
Thanks for the kind words 🙂
@@FlashmansStudy Looking forward to your next vid! By the way, what are your thoughts on Hiddleston? Could he pull it off?
@@tbone35453 Hiddleston would be great, definitely got the look.
Hiddleston, is an interesting choice but after his photos I’d love to see Dominic given a shot as the older flash, he’s played some very good parts.
for me Mountain of Light
David Case is Flashman
Sharpe worked on a budget, but then again he is a Hero cut from quite a different cloth.
My way of doing it would be to start off with a classy, good budget, faithful film adaption of Tom Browns Schooldays (seeing Stephen Fry as Arnold again would be quite excellent) to allow audiences to be drawn in naturally, present Hughes as the Hero and Flashy as the villain and go from there.
Then follow it with Flashman, have the narrative follow the disgraced, expelled bully rather than the plucky little Hero, we've already set Flash up as the cad, so no one will go in expecting him to be anything more.
Bit of a twist, dontcha know!
I agree, a TV show is more appropriate. They could more easily develop the character. It think that's a good idea to start him off on a bad foot. Anything with national treasure Fry in it always is good. Someone else suggested having the opening in the sale room when they find the packets.
I approve
The same could have been said about Django Unchained.
We lost Peter Jackson's Dam Busters because US audiences would 'reel in horror' on hearing the name of Guy Gibson's dog. Then came Django Unchained and spectacularly demonstrated otherwise.
If they made a harry flashman film in the '80s it would be like the Indiana Jones films I would love that if Ridley made it in the vein of Indiana Jones his own that guy would have made a lot of money
I dont want there to be a Flashman film. Its like when I find something intresting about history thats really cool and not many people know about, until they make a movie and everyones suddently an expert, It wont make the book readers feel special ,just another consumer
Yes, Flashy is a privilege.
Well, I'll always have Flashman in my mind. Yeah, if the movie isn't just right it might spoil the excellent storyline.
These days the themes might go right over the heads of our simplistic, politically correct audiences that are addicted to the sensational. All they want is candy like Star Wars.
Sorry, but if "Django Unchained" can be made, then so can a Flashman movie. I suggest "Flashman's Lady", with Lily Collins as the the eponymous lady (never mind that she's not blonde - the personality is right). Henry Golding would have to be the villainous Solomon Haslam (handsome *and* a great actor). Zac Ephron for Flashman himself. Chris Pine as the White Raja and Oprah Winfrey as Queen Ranavalona. I can't wait to see it!
I would absolutely love to see the Flashman version of the charge of the light brigade on the big screen. The world needs a non PC anti hero.
Me too, especially with today’s effects and audio. The cannons booming and the silence from the momentary deafness. Amazing!
Well, now is the time with the whole world seeing Russia as a villain. It gives some important context to the current Ukraine situation as well as the infamous Charge of the Light brigade happened in the very region that is now contested and occupied by Russia.
Excellent video. Honestly, it's so rare to see any movie that matches in your imagination a much-loved book. I can't see a Flashman novel ever getting made in the current puritanical cultural environment, but so what. We'll always have the books to enjoy.
Glad you enjoyed it!
"The quality he deserves" sums it up completely. The subtle nuances, the historic details, the characters would all be lost.
A friend and myself used to discuss for ages at a time, who could actually play Harry Flashman successfully. It wasn't Malcolm McDowell for us. Actually either Alan Bates or Oliver Reed probably would've been better, or at least to my thinking.
The nearest we could come with the young Michael Caine around "Zulu" (with a bit of "Alfie" insouciance) - who I gather you have a fondness for, lol. The cover of one of the books (Flashman and the Redskins?) had an approx 45 year old Flashman, and I swear it looked just like the actor Nigel Davenport.
I think a younger Flashman could actually be played by Henry Cavill. He has that 'British Gentleman' look and does a good job investing himself in roles. He actually fought with the producers of Witcher to give his character more dialogue in Season 2 as he feels they were doing Geralt an injustice by only having him grunt and swear. Geralt and Flashman are actually somewhat similar characters aside from being from different genres of novels.
A genuine Flashman movie would be even more difficult now, given the tyranny of PC that reigns over the West. I would wish for a movie but not one that didn't follow the books. Clive Cussler let Hollywood make two of his novels into movies. After the first, Raise the Titanic, he swore he'd never sell the rights again and then some decades later he executed what he thought was an ironclad contract with Hollywood for Sahara and again he was disappointed, even had to sue on the contract.
A shame. It'd require some severe crazy adaptation writing to make Harry palatable to the special snowflakes of our era.
I think you'd have to have a talkover,otherwise miss those little insights & views that make such a great character,works well in Casino& Goodfellas,I'd love another film(didn't enjoy Royal Flash)-Dom West would do it for free!-but I hadn't given thought to some of your points,always end up upsetting somebody in todays PC serious world.
I despair
Good books - ones with internal monologues, long descriptions and complicated motivations, never make good films. Neither do good plays. Plays, books and films are totally different media, and only work when they are completely reimagined. What used to be called "Airport novels" are fine. Just add lots of car chases and CGI explosions. People who want to see their favourites from one media - to take an example at random, Judge Dredd - on the big screen, are invariably disappointed, while the cinemagoing public are disappointed for other reasons, and can't see what the fuss is about. George Macdonald Fraser wrote many screenplays, and knew the difference between what works on the page, and what works in the cinema. Any future Flashman film will annoy both Flashy fans, and people who come across him for the first time on the screen.
Flashman at The Charge could be done. The people of Crimea could use the jobs
There won't be another because GMF refused to give permission for it & presumably his estate will continue with his wishes
Strange that Flashman's droll cynicism has become the prevailing tone of our own times: it's all rot. His attendant *other* baggage, however-- the cowardice, the arrogance (as two instances) it would seem requisite to become this way in the first place are topics almost no one wants to discuss, much less even consider.
Another film would be great though....
If it was done right with enough money.
I agree, it would be great. Not holding my breath but it would be great.
You know what else would be great? Another series as good as the Flashman series. The Robert Brightwell series was very enjoyable but I've read them three times and hungry for more.
I wish you had made this vid for Judge Dredd both attempts by Hollywood have been piss poor
👍
HBO? Mini series?
Admittedly you are right. It would get fucked now. Sanitised and made for people who prefer the Office over Python.
I think you're right. Big budget TV series.
Flashman, along with ourselves, are dinosaurs and destined for obscurity. The BS and fashion of politically correct dictates this.
I first discovered Flashman in my Dad's Playboys which I snuck looks at when I was a kid. Can you imagine Playboy, if they're still around, featuring this today?
Narcos, Breaking Bad, better call Saul, The Boys, Preacher...plenty of distasteful language and despicable characters. The main problem, as with GMF’s non-fiction, are the positive aspects of old era values and achievements. Those pro-empire might be upset at the incompetence that GMF revelled in describing. On the other side. The other side of the coin is of course that it would be very hard to persuade anyone to invest in, or attend a project that does try to give ‘Victorian values’ a fair shake.
If Flashman somehow ever made it on screen again you can guarantee that the point would be missed completely. Not only in execution, but also in reception. Modern TV is ok with shoving violence, drugs, sex/porn, anti-religion down our throats, but to have a Victorian white racist, cad, treacherous man would be unacceptable even by their morally low standards. Which is a great shame, because the whole point of Flashman is to highlight some of the hypocrisy of Victorian Britain using comedy: any accurate portrayal of Victorian Britain is 'cancelled' (even if it's poking some fun at itself like Flashman) unless it's anachronistic bilge like Bridgerton or something written by Jane Austen.
The Yanks wouldn't get it. That's why.
Catch.
'...Macintyre was finally able to find a box hidden away in the basement of the archives in a tiny U.S. museum of this mysterious man's birthplace. At the bottom of the box was a "document, written in Persian and stamped with an intricately beautiful oval seal: a treaty, 170 years old, forged between an Afghan prince and the man who would be king."
The first American in Afghanistan had many titles: Prince of Ghor, Paramount Chief of the Hazarajat, Lord of Kurram, personal surgeon to Maharaja Ranjit Singh of the Five Rivers, King of Afghanistan ... and many others. His highness Halan Sahib - who in 1839, enthroned on a bull elephant, raised his standard and made claim to the Hindu Kush - was known back home in Chester County, Pennsylvania, as Josiah Harlan. The man who followed Alexander the Great's winding mountain path 21 centuries later and led an army made up of Afghan Pathans, Persian Qizilibash, Hindus, Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Hazaras who were descendents of the Mongolian Hordes, a pacifist Quaker of Chester County, Pennsylvania..."
Yeah, but shit happens. These are all genuine OBSTACLES in the way of another Flashman film, but not enough for me to believe in NEVER. Life's both too long and too unpredictable to make NEVER claims when it comes to something like this. Sure, Victoria Falls will never reverse course and run UP instead of DOWN (making it Victoria RISES, I suppose), but this isn't that sort of phenomenon. Keep your hopes up.
FLASHMAN is a guitly pleasure, and cannot be put in film or tv. because you cant say b@#ing on the radio
I would rather have the Flashy of my own imagination but I don't see a problem with political incorrectness as that is in Flashman's narrative rather than the dialogue.
I think Flashman could now be made (because the Americans got chucked out of Afghanistan recently it would be more acceptable to an audience to side with Harry (worts n all)
Both Flashman and Flashman at the Charge are scarily relevant today.
Wait so you have a problem with the English flag representing ethnically English people?
The casting was wrong in the movie, I think that ollie reed would have made a more realistic flash and maybe mcdowell cold play rudi. alan bates is a great actor but as rudi he sucked
Your arguments are irrefutable, especially as regards the way Flashman would be castrated in order to render him acceptable to the minorities who would in any case only see the film to nit-pick.
Just a quick word of praise for the BBC radio dramatisation of "Flashman at the Charge" with the magnificent Joss Ackland as our flawed hero (as is the current parlance).
Ruined near the 3 minute mark. Unsubscribed.