William Hague warns Tories against ‘catastrophic’ strategy to become a bigger Reform
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- “One false move and there could be an even worse catastrophe.”
“If the Conservatives get the idea to be a bigger version of the Reform Party, that would be a great mistake” warns William Hague.
📻 Listen to Times Radio - www.thetimes.c...
📍 Subscribe to our channel - / @listentotimesradio
🗞 Subscribe to The Times www.thetimes.c...
📲 Get the free Times Radio app www.thetimes.c...
The Tories ignored their voters and constituents for years. Goodbye Cons.
Listening to William Hague, Rory Stewart and Penny Mordant that they really don't get it and completely clueless. So out of touch.
@@mr.mayhem7402 Reform UK just needs to carry on. Tory voters will move to Reform and the Tory wets will be left on the scrap heap.
Hague should know. He could have backed Clarke, but decided on vanity, to stand himself. He was what was needed. It didn't end well.@@mr.mayhem7402
agree and they still had the bare faced cheek to say they were the "peoples priorities"
I don’t know exactly what the Tories should do now. But I do know they shouldn’t take advice on winning elections from William Hague.
Review the state of the UK at every level & the mess they have created...& realise their policies simply do/did not work fiscally or socially long-term.
Completely agree, Hague should be asked about why he allowed the members to get involved in selecting their leader. That's how we ended up with Truss as PM.
'A very honorable man' who boasted about diverting leveling up funds from poor Labour areas to affluent Tunbridge Wells.
No. He said that even in affluent areas there may be pockets of poverty. I hear even London has some
@@mrharry448 But that is not what Sunak said at that garden party. The best that can be said is that Sunak is rhetorically challenged. More likely is that the thought that there may be pockets of poverty in affluent areas never occured to him. The latter seems more likely given his subsequent statements about people that are not a rich as his mates.
If Labour voters wish to improve their financial situation maybe they should get a job
He also quite happily cancelled Hs2, in the same city that was due to benefit from it. Now he's gone, and we won't be getting hs2 as planned.
That’s Royal Tunbridge Wells you pensant lol 😂
Sunak really didn't stand a chance - the rot had already set in to the party from the fools who went before since 2010.
Millions of immigrants destroyed the immigrant PM.
Sunak never stood a chance because he is a hollow man running a hollowed out party. Quite fitting for an empty suit being the leader of a party of empty suits. There is nothing in his head capable of critical thought.
he made it even worse though.
Dear Leader Klaus Schwab doesn't mind, he won the election again 😂
Well, if there's one person who knows about leading the Tories after a historic defeat to leading them into another historic defeat it's this bloke!
I would have thought William Hague not the best advisor, the only reason the Conservatives lost the election was that they aligned themselves with the left, with all the actions that followed. So pursuing Conservative policies to the right of centre would appear to be the obvious solution for the Conservatives.
It's remarkable that some still qualify Rishi as "honourable" when his corruption & lies are so flagrant.
That great electoral success William Hague. Clueless
So Haigs answer is for the Conservative party to carry on being a strange liberal/green non party?
Yep, welcome to the Idiocracy, he's just warned the Conservative Party not to return to conservatism
I think you are confusing socially conservative with the Conservative Parties of Englands respect of a small state, law, social order, traditions, nature and customs. The former is the new, more American version of hyper conservatism that’s been introduced seemingly by people like Farage who pretend this is a British concept. It’s really not.
You want 2 Reforms?
@@martino2794 Reform's policies are populist nonsense. Not a a return to conservatism.
That appears to be his plan. He says people left them to vote Reform because the Tories were too right-wing. The man's a total imb3c!le.
I believe the conservatives need to be more like Reform, not less as William Hague suggests.
Hague must be a globalist
The Tories need to be exactly like Reform. 5 seats only.
It's really not a difficult problem to solve. You don't have to embrace populist nationalism. Just adopt a moderate position on immigration which aligns with the average Brit: Issue a sustainable number of visas (certainly not more than the number of available homes). Prioritise people with useful skills who are keen to integrate. And deport criminals.
If you think immigration is the major problem then you're missing the issue entirely. Britain is falling to bits, but because of immigration, but because of years of austerity. The housing crisis has been a huge problem for as long as anyone can remember (remember "Cathy Come home" in the 60s?) The NHS is unable to handle the fact that we have a huge older population. The economy is dangerously unbalanced and has been for decades. Many of the regions of the UK are now poorer than former communist areas in eastern Europe. We are currently off from our markets in Europe. Immigration is very small beer compared to those problems.
@@zeddeka I’m inclined to agree with you that it’s not our biggest issue. But it can be reasonably argued that mismanaging immigration has considerably exacerbated all those problems.
And it _is_ the major cause of the housing shortage by quite some margin.
Yes, there is an argument that we _should_ build more homes and increase the population. But either way, you have to build the homes _before_ inviting people to come and live in them!
If it were that easy, the Conservatives would have done it within 14 years of consistently promising to instead of the opposite happening. The economy is so structurally dependent on mass immigration at this point that trying to turn the ship around would involve a lot of short-term pain for a result that the government inflicting it probably wouldn't survive long enough to claim plaudits for. At the least, that's how the people with skin in the game managing it actually behave, even when they are strongly rhetorically and ideologically in favor of reducing immigration.
@@globalistgamer6418 I’m not convinced. I don’t think the economy needs quite that level of immigration. We didn’t need those levels 5 or 10 years ago.
The OBR suggests 350K per year. Not 700K.
And the econometrics often seem to lean too heavily on maximizing GDP, rather than real GDP per capita, or other measures of quality-of-life.
Also, many of those people are on dependant visas. Which we’ve been handing out far too casually.
I suspect it’s been used as a way to inflate property prices and deflate wages. A wealth transfer from the poor to rich which Tory donors demand. And one which they know the Left won’t dare oppose.
@@andybrice2711 _"Yes, there is an argument that we should build more homes and increase the population."_
No, England is massively overpopulated, it has a population density multiple times most European countries - you're crazy if you think we need more immigration, it is the No.1 problem. 90% of immigrants want only to live in England.
I thought Haig was a Thatcherite? Could have fooled me. Social Democrat more like. One cheek of the same backside. No change there.
We need a party on the right, we don't need two. You have permission to carry on competing for the lefty vote. We don't want you anymore. We want trustworthy politicians whether that's Kier Starmer's vision of the Labour party or Reform, not liars or miscreants.
We want people that care about the country, not themselves.
4:10 Corbyn had more votes in 2016 and 2019.
Karma is real, reform is the future, I will never vote conservative in my life regardless of their “claims”. Establishment liars.
The Tories tried to become Reform with their policies and are now worried about how well Reform did....
The Rwanda policy boosted Reform's poll from 4% to 10% before Nige added +4 points
No. The Conservatives acted left but talked right. This gave them the worst of both worlds. They got tarred and feathered by the media left for being a worse version of the Nazis, while presiding over the highest immigration levels the country's ever experienced.
Wrong. There are only so many ignorant and bigoted people in this country that are going to be swayed by the nasty and naive policies of Reform/UKIP MK4. Fortunately they are in the minority.
because you can't appease the far right, they will never be satisfied until they see the actions of the 1940's. that's why we normally ban far right parties, reform is no different to the British union of fascists, or the national front, or the BNP. cameron started it by failing to stand up to farage and his goons, a flaccid etonian drip to the end.
This lassie needs to slow down.
Not for me
"Stop the boats!" he pledged.... and failed absolutely to do so.
He did stop Hs2 though, sadly that will be part of his legacy. Not everyone can travel by private plane, or helicopter.
Absolute deluded tool. All the Conservative party needs to do is be a right of centre, conservative party. Easy.
That would be lovely, to restore conservatism and solidarity to that party. Same applies to US Republicans. Instead both have allowed fragmentation to the point of implosion.
That's exactly what Hague is arguing for.
@@RRR4847-o9g no he isn't. He's saying going further right isn't the answer. That's what the Tories need to do to be right of centre, move further right. Because right no they are neither right wing, nor conservative.
Agree. No lies or simplistic solutions to complex problems. Be adults again, like our new PM Sir Keir Starmer
Who is a Blairite and an absolute disaster is coming. What exactly are Labour going to do about Illegal Immigration and anti-Semitism considering who their core vote is and do you seriously think a party that think Unions who strike every ten seconds should run the country? The UK may be the only hard left leaning Nation in Europe...another disaster of epic proportions waiting to happen.
Now he's PM we'll discover what policies he's going to implement.
@@georgesdelatour 😂😂😂..watch absolute havoc even worse Immigration policy coming from this party..their core vote is the same bunch Blair waved in the first place. Every country in Europe has moved to the right for a reason but we've somehow managed to move to the left... disaster.
@@georgesdelatour Yes, just like we have been able to look back over the Tories record and judged them
like the adult Joe Biden? LOL
Well you certainly can't beconea.smaller labour. Conservatives are finished in this household.
Dose Mr Hague want to drive the Tories into the political wildness and eventually into extinction
Reform will smash Labour next.
LOL they couldn't even smash the Tories 😂.
@@pip1723 What? lol
Never did get the Churchill voice right, did you, 'Lord' Hague?
running a Country is a tough challenge for anyone but Rishi had so many chances to change direction and mirror what the electorate saw as their priorities but he just kept ignoring them and allowed too many of his cabinet to pursue their own personal agenda's like the ridiculous culture wars. So going fwd they need to learn how to be united and a lot more accountable, or they will fragment even further
The real problem was, the government got into several fights with the civil service, and always backed down from every one of them. It ultimately chose the policies preferred by civil servants over those preferred by voters.
From Scotland ...
Why is it that after over a decade of SNP rule, out life expectance and drug problem is worst in whole of western Europe ... is that why SNP lost ?
Labour light just won't cut it. Get on and split.
Why no chat about the Gaza Activist Muslim Brotherhood people? 5 seats. There has been violence and threats, intimidation of MPs. This is important, why skip it?
The Labour vote went down a lot in seats where the Lib Dems won, and the Lib Dem vote went down a lot in seats where Labour won.
That is tactical voting.
Exactly, it is difficult to conclude much from the vote share when so much tactical voting
@@dawhite115 don't forget all the Voter suppression from ID that only old gimmers have to setting the date before university breakup then running a fiction lead dystopian campaign of a world would end if Labour got in + you don't need to bother we've lost don't let them have a super majority.
I hope Labour put in some common sense rules for campaigning the Tory toxic sewer was on full discharge
@@SlowhandGreg Would you agree that voter verification should be of the same standard as the verification required to access state benefits? That seems fair to me.
And it was glorious.
exactly, there over 40 seats where the tories won, where labour and lib dem votes were very close, and together were more than the tories. the issue was they couldn't agree on who should step back for whom, otherwise the lib dems well could have been the opposition.
If Hague had any insight and understanding whatsoever, he would warn the remaining Conservatives against being another 'liberal' party in the House of Commons. If they make the same mistake as their predecessors, they will quickly become irrelevant.
There not liberal they've been pedalling thatcherism on steroids why do you thing migration is so high?
Wrong. Hague is correct.
If they move to the right they will either have to merge with Reform or compete with them. If they merge they will struggle as a lot of Tories don't like Farage and also a lot of them didn't vote for Brexit. Also, I see a lot of people talking about a "proper" conservative party, but don't explain what that is and when was the last one and what policies did they have.
@@freebornjohn2687 They don't need to become some sort of populist nationalist party though. I'm pretty sure they could've headed off Reform simply by saying _"Yes. We will put a reasonable limit on net migration next year, and stop handing out so many dependant visas."_ That's hardly a radical position.
@@andybrice2711 They lost that argument because they promised 100k and it ended up at 700k post Brexit - which they said would give us control of our borders.
conservative party someone said it was ok two minutes later I found out it died committed suicide on a grand scale.
Reform are doing to the Tories what the SDP Lib Alliance did to Labour.
Best thing they could do is to dissolve. Not needed any longer.
William talking sense!
There is no way you can deal with the Reform Party, 2029 is already beckoning.......
Well said William
They have to get to the centre right, like it or not. It will be good night Vienna for the next twenty years otherwise. 🇬🇧
Wise words from the guy that got spanked at the ballot box
Conservatives will need an electoral pact with reform. Standing down candidates in each other's seats and not standing candidates where the other party is the challenger to Labour
No they won't Reform have a well spread out minority appeal, Tory activists on the ground and councillors will leave if that happens
Been done, didnt work.
That will just alienate anyone to the left of the Tories. Reform voters, are predominantly older and as they die off their support will crumble.
@@rogerphelps9939 The instigation of a low wage economy by the Tories will take it's toll and you'l get angry young men to replace angry old men
@@rogerphelps9939Sadly reform activists are younger. It is the opposite for the Conservatives. You may have missed it but Reform has a huge social media profile that plays well with younger people who think it is the opposite of the 'old and stale' parties. Unfortunately the legacy parties aren't competing on the same playing field. Malign foreign botfarms whether or not Reform is colluding with them are pushing young people toward wrecking parties and wrecking causes
I willl never forget the role he played in the invasion of Libya, great move wee Willie Haig. If Labour can control migration they will be in power for ever.
lol most of the reform bots are gone. payments must have stopped
Putin's dosh has achieved what he wanted.
Farage for PM. Simple as 😘
Hague is a clown.
Miss the old days of Hague the Vague from Prescott.
in some ways i find sunak worse than bojo..a bit like a pickpocket vs a mugger!!!!
You really must get over reform gaining seats you had your chance and blew it
Change begins now; very good!......but what kind of change? for the better, I think not. The voting public never fail to surprise one, they knew very well what they would get.
...oh William
consReform?
William haig - better tan any sleeping pill
The debate is globalist or not.
I thought farage was going to sue the bbc, the daily mail & Zelensky? Or was that just hot air as usual?
William Hague is an employee of the Tony Blair Institute.
Reform are not far right lol
Grow up kid 😅
yea they are a complete package of libertarian for the billionaire economics with populism
@@SlowhandGreg Labour are Hamas supporters.
Oh come on! Many Reform supporters would probably like to see England remain predominantly English in identity and culture- if that's not far right I don't know what is.
@@applegrovebard we like immigration just controlled and all to be tax payers obviously apart from children white black brown green blue it dosnt matter
Sunak 'unlucky'??? He was totally politically incompetent. He would have fared much better if he's stood up to the swivel eyed loons, eg Cruella
Loon though she may be, she was right in thinking that the Tories would be toast if they didn't do something to limit the rate of immigration.
@@adagietto2523They did. Went out on a limb with the unwieldy Rwanda policy. Look how that turned out
You're done, good bye.
No, competing with Reform would be a good idea.
The only useful function for the Tory party is to keep Reform small.
Seems tory smaller now,,,,,reform just got 4x not smaller
Say goodbye to devo Scotland 😢🏴🏴🏴😢😢😢
the wef won,
Hague is right.
hagues right . has was after 1997 as well .
Sir kier.
Keir Stalin or Keir Stasi?
@georgesdelatour both thanks for showing interest.
Oh please let the Tories try to be more like Reform, a party that won 4 whole seats.
Yes, but one has to consider on the other hand that Reform probably cost the Tories well over a hundred seats. They will never win an election unless they consider why so many voters supported a lost cause.
5 seats. New parties are at a disadvantage. Reform got 14 percent of the popular vote but only got 5 seats. However, the Lib Dems got FEWER votes but won 64 seats. Hardly fair or representative. Tories got 23 percent. That's not much more than Reform and a disaster for a major party who could have avoided this result of it didn't betray its voters.
Wets out.
You were part of the problem Lord Hague. What happened to you? You were fine until you fell in love with Angelina Jolie. You're a Tory Jeremy Corbyn.
14 years of partying and stupidity at voters expense.. and they’re shocked they’ve been booted?
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Slava Spoluchenomu Korolivstvu
Слава Сполученому Королівству
How much does each illegal immigrant cost us on average?
none, they cant access services. farmers also make money off them doing jobs that locals cant handle
A fraction of the cost of each and Every single THIEVING CORRUPT TORY SCUMBAG.
Normally they don't cost anything because they come here and pay tax, and we didn't have to pay for them to be born on the NHS and have 14 years of free education. Unfortunately though, the tories have put them in limbo by refusing to process them, and that means they can't join in with normal society and work, pay tax etc. so then they become a drain on society. But it's a deliberate drain. Standard tory tactic - break something on purpose then say it needs fixing.
It would be far cheaper to beef up the asylum/immigration service and process them quickly, rather than sticking them in tory crony owned hotels. Of course the tory way is to always see how much of our money they can steal and give to themselves and their friends. They created this mess, and then blamed the victims of their actions. Hopefully that will clear your view of this. It's a Tory mess created to generate Tory anti-immigrant votes, and it's backfired in a most spectacular way with tory voters moving to the even more extreme mob of charlatans... It's the same as in the USA where the Republican Party refused to pass a border bill they wrote which had everything in it they wanted.. They even said "We can't pass this and solve the border problem because what will we campaign on if we do?"
How do you know when a politician is lying?
Their mouth is moving
The trouble is that the future of the tory party is in the hands of 100,000 old right winger brexit supporting members who chose Boris Johnson and Liz Truss ! Allowing members to choose the leader , rather than MPs, is a demonstrable disaster for tories and Labour.
Allowing David Cameron to choose the MPs was the original disaster. He filled the party with Blairites.
The party members could be my brothers dogs or Russian Oligarchs for all we know
You do know young people are flocking to Nigel Farage? They know he makes more sense than the woke cretins that have been voted into power and the utterly just as woke useless Conservatives.
@@georgesdelatour and was successful in two elections
@@dawhite115 Because he promised to bring immigration down to the tens of thousands in both. Something he didn't do, either time. The fact he didn't honour his promises probably had something to do with all those Blairites he'd made MPs.
Change .... What is change ? So we bring on a Bent Female Kesia. She is a
minority of the country. Let's all be Gay ????
Turn out 60%. Labour got 34% of the vote.
60% x 34% = 20%. So Labour won 412 seats with only 20% support.
How is that their fault if 40% of the population can't be arsed and probably couldn't even name the Prime Minister
Why would you include the people that chose not to include themselves in the process? They are irrelevant.
Tactical voting helped get the seats.
Never worried the Tories before about getting 100% of the power with less than 40% of the national vote. About time they had a taste of their own poisonous medicine.
Sunak has betrayed his party and staff! A disgrace! He should resign asap! He should have resigned on the spot really like David Cameron did who was truly sorry! Sunak is not sorry at all if he doesn’t resign! Horrid character, pure arrogance to call an election in such a short notice and without consulting everyone in the party!!!
Hard to consult people about the date of the election when he knows they're so corrupt they'll all run out and put a bet on it.
The most important first step for the Tories will be to circumvent William Hague's disastrous leadership election rules.
Well said, but I don't suspect that they will have the nerve to do that. The absudr never-ending election process that put the final choice in the hands of an unrepresentative minority was surely a significant facto in the plummeting reputation of the party.
I think the first and most important step is to throw out the UKIP/Reform headbangers and get back to the tory party of the likes of Clarke and Heath. I remember when successive Labour and Tory governments used to campaign on things like how many more council houses they had built over the course of a parliament, and how much ordinary workers wages had risen.
@@PaulaXismThat’s exactly what they need to do. The Suella’s and those of her ilk need to be expunged from the party. They can then join reform where their views will be more appreciated.
Congratulations Ref9rm. Excellent result in first real election. Proportional representation next, then 2029.
Labour are never going to introduce proportional repreaentation when they could nevr for a government single-handedly again if they did. Maybe Reform will win eight seats at the next election, while helping Labour to stay in power.
If Farage takes control of the Tory Party you will be screaming and begging to reverse it to First Past The Post again.
Congratulations SDP/Lib Alliance. 25% of the vote and 11 seats. PR next and we'll really show Maggie!
Let's smash it in 1987!
The conservatives for short term reasons allowed a party within the party in the form of the ERG, Brexit and the role played by Johnson’s personal ambitions effectively put the party in an long term untenable position. If they intend to survive as a political force they need to purge the far right in their party not appease them.
RW populists win fans by being plain spoken, and binary in thought. Tories must not cede to calls for yes-or-no answers on nuanced subjects. They are the most successful political party in history, spending a self-inflicted five-year (minimum) sentence on the naughty step. Other parties must support the survival of moderate Tories, or face a very different opponent come the next GE.
No they don't they propose NINMBY unworkable solutions to highly complex problems feeding on the poor and disenfranchised
Agree. There is a large chunk of voters who are aspirational whilst being progressive, who recognise the world is complex and despise sloganeering and who hover around a left right band in the middle. The populists offer nothing but sloganeering.
This country is being destroyed by immigration. That is not "nuanced". The Tories support it, and half of their voters have left them because of it. So if they keep on with their open-borders, woke-leftism they will continue to get crushed at every election.
Being plain-spoken is something they could learn from though. I'm no fan of Farage, but I have to admire his clear communication skills.
In regards to lower turnout I am curious as to how many people fell afoul of the Tory voter ID suppression attempt.
The people most likely affected would be Labour supporters which could be why they the Tories still have three digit MPs.
You think Labour voters are too thick to bring their drivers licenses or passports to the polling station? 🤣🤣
@@AlTarif No most Labour members and main voter base probably did. I am referring to the average person in the country who pays little to no attention to politics outside of the big news stories. These are the people who simply were not informed they needed ID as they never needed it before.
@@Thought_Processing_ 'The people most likely affected would be Labour supporters'. Nah you definitely singled out Labour voters as uninformed morons.