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Sail Life - Dometic Proheat X30 hydronic heater on a boat, part 2 of 3 - DIY project
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- In this video, I continue to work on Athena's heating system. All the plumbing gets finished, the heater gets installed and connected to diesel.
00:00 Introduction
00:55 Dometic Proheat X30 Features
02:21 Fan heater airflow
03:29 Soundproofing for the technical compartment
06:25 Buffer tank installation
06:45 Manifolds installation
08:04 Buffer tank installation
08:25 X30 installation
10:51 X30 connection to the diesel tank
12:50 Exhaust overview
14:30 Exhaust thru-hull location
17:42 Cya!
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I have always had good luck with Dometic equipment in the US RV industry. As an RV Mechanic, I found the installation, use and service to be easy and convenient.
Greats video Mads, don't forget fuel filter and water separator in the supply line, ideally mounted near to the engine units so they are all changed and inspected together. Not sure what you're exhaust temps. are going to be but sleeving and lagging will mean no burnt arms when you're working on other "stuff" in that area, from experience this will prove very useful. Make up air for the fan coil units is important - check manufacturers recommendations and vent sizes, those fans will soon be restricted. Note air for ventilation could forma sleeve around the supply pipework - my choice. You could also add a large booster fan in the technical compartment, this applies to the exhaust pipework as well. Building from scratch you have lots of options! Can't wait to see this working!
Hi Mads, I am one of those who suggested to decouple the heater. I am a sound engineer, and I am pretty sure that given the fact that you will be sleeping at the other end of the boat, structure-borne sound will be the only thing arriving at your quarters. At the same time, I am pretty sure that this WILL happen.
So I would recommend designing the decoupling now, since yes, you can add it later, but you probably will HAVE to do it anyways and it's never going to be as easy as now. Also, you will have to design the mounting system so the heater sits on top of the mounting plate. If I recall correctly, you will hang the heater and the only place you will be able to put those isolators will be on the wall or on top of the heater, putting them under immense stress, which is far from ideal.
Take a look at these - they cost next to nothing and will do a perfect job -> smile.amazon.de/dp/B07QTXFXNW/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_j4P1Fb4H4G86E?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Thank you Mads for the heater install video. That is a really nice and compact system. As mentioned below, you may want to see if you can add insulated lagging around the exhaust piping to help prevent anything from bumping or touching the hot piping. Take care, stay well and Happy Holidays to you and Ava and Jurkil.
I only saw one clamp on the connections to the hot water distribution manifold. Two hose clamps are always a good idea but even more so when fittings are mounted where simple gravity aided by vibration and shock can dislodge them. As always great work and things are looking great! I agree with your boss! Cockpit heater! Yes!
I've used furnace cement in my wood burning stoves. it's not flexible at all and tends to fall out over time, due to the expansion and contraction of the joints due to heat. I've used a high temperature (300 degrees C) flexible sealant. Also, I'd advise the use of fibre glass for the insulation of the exhaust pipe to keep the severest of the heat away from everything else. You can buy marine exhaust fibre glass insulation online.
Thanks for the great content, I've been watching for a long time now!! :-)
I like the idea of a large heat outlet in the cockpit!
Hey Mads, a while back I was working for a yard in Washington and the owner had an old Hallberg-Rassy ketch with a hydronic heating loop run to the cockpit. I can’t remember how he rigged it, but you could plug up to two lengths of hose from the fan and up the pant leg of your foul weather gear and it was the height of luxury. I’ve always said I’d emulate it when I could afford hydronic heating. Great video, see you!
Being a huge fan of hydronic heating I am looking on this project with such envy that I am trying to envision a system like this for myself. That little X30 sounds amazing! Wicked spiffy install!
The astute among us should be cheering you, Mads! Congratulations on a perfect pronunciation of _insulation_ !!! 👍
Instlulation.
The X30 looks like a really good bit of kit. We are just upgrading our heating and water heating. We will certainly be looking at it. We have a Dometic freezer thats been outstanding in performance. Thanks for sharing Mad's. Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
Nice use of the Saskatchewan socket wrench.
Athena is looking... Pretty damned spiffy 🤪 the systems you are installing are getting so advanced and refined I’m looking forward the episodes where you install the “docking assistant”, the ASS (All Sea Sail System) or the “Apple boat play” 😂🤣.
(I mean no disrespect, keep up the good job 😊)
Mads, Wallas Stoves (diesel cooktop/heater combo) recommend a fiberglass insulation sock over their flexible exhausts -- these socks are readily available. These are much less powerful units, but with the sock you can hold the exhaust in your bare hands a couple feet away. The sock might a) allow you to not have to space the exhaust line away from the hull and b) protect anything that may touch it in the locker.
Mads, in ship building we use insulation pins to secure insulation to the hull and other such places. When going to steel or aluminum we weld them, but where we can’t weld, like after paint, we use glue on pins. You can find them on Amazon, along with the caps, and glue. Epoxy would probably be an acceptable glue as well.
I love your channel. The boat keeps looking better and better.
Pretty dang spiffy!! Glad to see you back on form..it’s all coming together 👍
A few episodes back you recommended the 'Hornblower' series with audible. I gave it a go. Am now on book 5. Great stuff man. Thanks for that.
As always - your work is looking really good Mads - a real craftsman in the making. ATB. Phil
The technical compartment is really coming together, I think it will be something you will be able to show the gearhead-nerd type sailors you meet along your travels with pride.That heater is very slick, if it works as advertised it will be a great piece of gear. I watch sailing ran too, and when you started talking about the extra line being already spoken for, I sorta suspected where you were going with that. Al your head scratching and planning ahead is paying off!
Overall, she is coming along nicely, once you get the heat going things will progress even faster. I know you and Ava are excited, and that is only going to grow as the boat nears completion. She will be a one of a kind, even parked next to a twin she will be a special boat.
2 down and 1(episode) to go before things start heating up👍👍
Looks fantastic. Glad you're feeling and sounding better!
Hi Mads! Great progress again!
A quick tip.
In case of chilly weather and needing to adhere plywood to fiberglass, you could consider "Fix-It" by Casco. It adheres to cold (down to -15°C!!) and even damp surfaces. Primary adhering in 15min and full strenght in24h. I've used it a lot to adhere backing-plywood to all kinds of electrical components in the boat during early spring/late autumnhere in Oulu/Finland. It also comes in conveniently small tubes so no much leftovers, and it is 1-part stuff so no mixing.
Great video as usual. If the fans on the fans on the heat exchangers are noisy consider swapping them out for Noctua fans. They make PC fans but also industrial fans that are very quiet.
You might ask the heater company about adding lagging to the exhaust pipe. That will make the outside cool enough to touch.
so I had a little outlet in my cockpit that ran off my main trunk from the diesel heater. I experimented with a lot of perforated flexy tubes, and would run them up my pant leg in my foulies. Actually the best thing ever when out on watch. You'll really dry out your clothes and skin if you go overboard, and I ran a cable control to the cockpit to control the baffle. Very fun/easy mod.
Hey when its really cold you won't mind if you can hear it, just crank up the music! The sound box may be the way to go, great install BTW!
You used to show us "process" and progress. Locktighting coupling threads is fascinating (sarcasm) but you're cutting us short on guts of the work and actual DIY processes. Sure for those of us that have been with you for 3 years + are hooked on your progress, others tuning in for the "How to" are going to bounce your channel like a bad facebook page, Comon Man......
Looks like you got most of your materials at Sure Marine in Seattle. I found them to be a great resource and very helpful for technical guidance along the way.
I installed a hydronic system a couple of years ago using the same Real fan-coils you are using and found the fans to be very inadequate. They just did not blow hard enough. I am changing them out for much higher capacity Delta PFC122DE 12cm 12038 12V 4.8A 6500rpm super high wind volume Fan with PWM control using the Noctua NA-FC1, 4-Pin PWM Fan Controller. This way I have high volume and high static pressure when I need it but can slow the fans down with much lower energy use and sound when I just need a little.
I also added a muffler to the burner and it made an amazing difference in the sound. It used to sound like a jet engine and now unless it is on the max burn rate all I can hear is the water pump. The sound reduction outside the boat is even greater than inside and my neighbors no longer complain when I am heating.
What type of muffler?
@@philgee6901 I have 24mm exahust and I used this one for my system. It was a very nice unit, heavy, good welds and greatly reduced the sound both inside and outside the boat. Standing on the dock, directly in front of the outlet it now purrs instead of roaring. www.ebay.com/itm/Webasto-Eberspacher-Leakproof-24mm-Stainless-Marine-exhaust-Silencer-Muffler/324309876203?hash=item4b825ffdeb:g:YvoAAOSw9NxTw6vd
@@haydenwatson7987 looks like a great, very economical solution!
@@philgee6901 you can find the exact same muffler for 3-times the cost it you want. Just do not use the stamped metal SS mufflers from Espar because they are not fully welded so they are not marine rated and can leak CO.
Mads, save yourself some aggravation and purchase some perforated back insulation pins, you can epoxy them to the hull, push the insulation onto the hull and the pins will poke through nicely, then secure with stainless washers as recommended by manufacturer and “twist” the sharp end of the pin back into the insulation to prevent the washer from working loose and from future pokes :-) in my trade we use this technique on HVAC ductwork
Well done. My exhaust is exactly there and it worked out great. The heater kicks bee-hind. 😉
A hole saw in reverse will cut a clean hole through the sound insulation.
I sharpen a pipe on the bench grinder and drive it with a plastic mallet with a piece of sacrificial plywood as a backer.
Lots of progress
Looking great Mads. Here’s hoping you are all warm and toasty next week. 👍
For the tiny screw holes for the sound foam poke a hole in the aluminum with a knife heat up a crappy screw driver with a torch and melt a hole through the foam. It'll sink but it works well and it's clean.
Nice to see you back to somewhere near normality Mads, you did sound really poorly last week recovering from your illness. Getting the heating system up and running on Athena will be an incredible asset to working on her in the depths of winter. Well done, and looking forward to next weekends video.
I have a Webasto air heater, and the optional exhaust muffler really makes a difference in noise--outside and inside the boat.
Thanks for mentioning that 🙂 I'll keep it in mind 🙂
Hi Mads, been watching your refit for a while and love it! inspirational! just wanted to suggest if you havent already for your heater exhaust lagging yo use a fibre glass tape which is what I have used on my boat for a couple of years. It works well and its easy to wrap around a pipe of any shape with all the attachments around it too to hold it in place. Keep it up!
2:53 light bulb moment 💡
Thanks for clarifying!
I understand the relief after ‘hole saw’ job is done! Something always plays on your mind just knowing both the hole saw and the hull are going to do their thing :)
Your boat just keeps getting better and better.
Really impressive work mate it looks very accurate and well thought out very impressed with this work
We've been looking at adding hydronic heating to our trawler, both for cabin heat as well as domestic water heating. I hadn't seen the X30 before, finding myself mostly looking at the Eberspaecher and Webasto offerings. The X30 clearly is a much nicer bit of kit....thanks for highlighting it. Sadly, the price point is way out of the budget, but its nice to know its out there just in case I come into some money! Subscribed!
Very nice work , love your humility.
WOW, think about it. You posted this 38 minutes ago and its already has had 8,468 views. Dude, welcome to fame.
I think we here in the peanut gallery are supposed to find some faults, criticize, or just tell you how to do things better. The problem is that the work you do is perfect, even if you are not going for perfection. I also wonder how many jobs have been offered to you because of this channel. Great work Mads, really! Thanks for another great Sunday. If I can come up with something I will leave the comment on the partron page. Happy holidays to you and Ava!
The rigid hose inner diameter is critical to heater operation. The metering pump is the fuel control, and the rigid hose can be considered a fuel injection component.
I miss you using you great big knife to open boxes.
Maybe we should start doing that
0:59 awww, someone put a star on their mast. :D
"Im not shooting for perfection" - yeah right
Always a pleasure to watch.
I love that pilot house across from you at the dock.
Mads, it would be awesome to see an episode you chatting with Johan (Ran Sailing) randomly on repairs. Sharing ideas and stuff.
If they haven’t left Sweden yet, you guys are pretty close to each other.
THAT would be an amazing crossover!
Between lighting and heat, you will be golden.
Ah - I did not know everyone watched Ran Sailing as well! I've never been on a boat, but I love sailing DIY videos! Thanks for all your hard work!
Hi ,all is coming along well Mads , ref RAN heater out lets they may be ducked hot air and not fed by hot water ,just a thought ,will you need to put anti freeze in the system . Another fine video with lots of ideas and practical comments . Well done, stay safe .
For the hole you can try to run a core hole drill in reverse. It is a softer cutting, and will not "rip" as much
Great info mads! Loved it!
Merry Christmas
Awesome work Mads!
Spiffy work this week. Looking forward to the heater startup. See you!
You should build your own brand of boats the quality of your work is outstanding!!!
You should rename this awesome boat “ Spiffy” 😅. I would go to the moon and back to have that heater started knowing how cold it is in December. Great video!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Neat holes in foam, find a piece of metal pipe in a size you like, grind an edge on one end, whack other end with a hammer.
My Dad does this to cut holes in balsa wood but usés a twisting motion .... fantastic ‘free’ tool..
Mads, that was two and one quarter :) 11:56
Not quite - every tme he counts one turn he actually only does a half. And when counting half a turn he only does one quarter. In total one and a quarter.
Furnace cement is not flexible (or it didn't used to be back when Noah was launching the ark) so make sure that joints depending on the cement are isolated from severe vibration.
Hurry up I’m freezing! Nice looking setup and damn fine installation.
I was leaning towards a diesel drip heater like you had before. This system seems interesting, but it's going to depend a lot on how noisy it is. Very much looking forward to see how you find it after a month or three of actual use. If it's quiet enough, the benefit of heat coming out in different parts of the boat for a more even heating might be well worth the noise and install hassle.
Nothing beats something like the Refleks stove for simplicity but heat distribution is a big problem :) The v berth aboard Obelix is very cold even if the saloon is blistering hot. Also the lack of a thermostat can be a little annoying. I'm very excited to see how loud the X30 is. I found a video on youtube where it seemed pretty loud but it can be hard to judge on video. Fingers crossed :)
I saw a school bus install in an external locker and that was quite noisy but it may have just been the camera position. As you say, you could always add a soundproof enclosure. However if your birth is at the bow, you may not hear much.
Hey when its really cold you won't mind if you can hear it, just crank up the music! The sound box may be the way to go, great install BTW!
You can always add a small vent for the heater air flow later if needed.
smart!
Merry warm Christmas, Mads! You certainly warm a lot of hearts with your videos. Hope your heater works as planned and you can live aboard a lot more comfortably.
you should run the exhaust up next to the engine exhaust. you can then add a wall and still use that compartment for storage. With the exhaust running across the bottom and up the hull seems like it would limit what you could store in there.
Thanks for the distraction from our crappy life
For attaching the insulation check out "vanlife insulation part 2" in youtube. At 8:00 it shows how they do it for campers. Probably not stainless, but you could certainly find a way to use the concept.
To cut a hole in the foam and not tear the foil you could get a small length of pipe the diameter you want the hole. Sharpen the end of the pipe with a file or rotary tool and then using a twisting pushing motion punch a hole in the foam. If you put a piece of backer foam behind where you are making the hole it should also cut the back side cleanly.
Dang....there are so many "Pretty Spiffy," things, made part of the boat. That the boat is looking...."Pretty Spiffy."😎
I bet Mads is gonna rename Athena in the end :)
Can you give a minute of just the boat sitting in the water so we can really take it in, as she looks fantastic now !!
Great installation, my only worry would be the exhaust location in case of following sea or rogue wave, maybe some sort of cover over the exhaust when not in use.
Love all your videos 👍
If you go to arctic climate you might want to have a dry exhaust and have a heated battery compartment to avoid the batteries freezing and cracking.
Du er go Mads🇩🇰😊 og en glædelig jul til dig😊
I have had success, cutting holes in your type of foam. I use aluminum duct tape over the spot I want to cut. This reinforces the thin foil covering on the foam, and does not need to removed when done cutting the hole.
7:50 - I LOVE you guys watch RAN Sailing.
The international space station just called, they want some help installing their heating system which they say is much less complicated than yours!
Looking good ...Merry Christmas!
Was thinking of it for a while and there it is today!
You didn't refer to the boat as "good OLD Athena" and that is very true as she is transforming in to a brand new one!!! 😍
When you have decided on the flexible exhaust hose it is important you are very careful that no saltwater can get between it and any insulation you are considering putting on it. Saltwater in close proximity to the hose is gonna rust it out in a very short time.
Some sort of screen or mesh over it that keeps anything flammable away from it is a far better solution.
Merry Christmas to you and all of your family and friends :) thank you for sharing all of your work, it makes great content .. we should have more people in the world like you .
Glædelig jul , pas godt på dig selv, jeg glæder mig fantastisk meget til den næste video .. :)
Mvh
Johnny
Nice power from that heater. I just use a Webasto Thermo Top C heating two large radiators. 6kW at full power and 0.6l of diesel and hour. Mostly it's running at 0.3l though since the full output isn't needed all the time.
Need to have some sort of bung to put in exhaust if you are in heavy stern seas. A few big waves whacking the back of your stern will most likely shoot water up over the loop and into your heater😱👍
You are my sailboat DIY hero.
Clean build... I love the look of the all white hull. my vote is to leave it, no speed stripe..🤙
If the X30 vibrates it would be good practice to use plain and spring washers on it's mounting bolts Mads. Tiny spot of Loctite on them for 'belt & braces', but I do mean TINY if you ever want to dismount it again!
"the year is 2096, and Mads has finally emptied his massive tub of furnace cement"
Nice job so far!
Very good instructions. Not enough room on my boat.
Glad to see such great progress. I want to see heat!!!!
I just love your sense of humor, I laugh so hard! Thank you
Great to see you install this.. its on my list to use when I'm at that stage. lookimg forward to seeing (and hearing ) it run. Dirk.
Another amazing fun video! See youuuuuuuuuuuw
Arm chair expert here. I am wondering if those fans overtime will collect dust,I just pulled my refrigerator out after two years in its new built in location and yep it the air flow cover on the back was pretty restricted access for a small vac might be handy.