Here are some counterpoints: 1. The rhythms naturally suggested by the neuroscience studies and the experiments of Ptolemy are *repetitive* rhythms, which are not something which is inherent to long pieces which may change drastically over their runtime. The rhythms of jazz, classical, south asian classical, gamelan, etc. are usually highly varied and rich, a far cry from light flickering through a spoked wheel at a regular interval. 2. This is something which, arguably, people *do* routinely take part in, by replaying the same song over and over again or in the form of "club mixes," which are arguably closer to the neuroscience experiments than jazz, classical, or longform rock. People regular seek out these kinds of experience *from* pop music as well as EDM, genres which tend to have more repetitive rhythms. 3. In my personal experience, this has sometimes had a malignant effect. Replaying the same song over and over again has gotten me stuck in a loop where I couldn't find pleasure in other things. Music like classical or jazz which has a more varied progression of ideas has actually been helpful because it helps me to conceive my life in a similar way: moments which are not the most interesting to me right now may give way to plentiful reward. This is just anecdotal, of course, but I think there's a good argument to made that jazz and classical and other forms of longform music tend to actually subvert trance-like states for a different kind of reward, where in there is some kind of progression or journey.
I can see how trance and dance music is more repetitive, but jazz isn’t always comprised of movements, like classical music often is. When I played in jazz bands, the vast majority of material available were lead sheets where there is a head, and then perhaps trading solos, and then a return to the head, but the rhythm and tempo were generally fixed. It’s heavily rooted in a cyclical form. Remember that jazz was primarily dance music before the more exploratory fusion stuff happened. Most jazz is very repetitive and the improvisation brings the audience joy through novelty, showmanship and surprise, while the rhythms and chord changes repeat predictably. That’s why jazz musicians put so much emphasis on “staying in the groove”.
Sir have you heard of the Egyptian legendary singer OUM KOULTHOM? her songs were 45 minutes each and people would certainly go into a trance or a hypnotic state listening to her, they call it in Arabic a state of "Saltana" from the word "Sultan" which translates to emperor. I hope you give her a listen. Try ENTA OUMRI one of her most famous songs, watch how the audience reacts and how she controls them.
I write orchestral music. I never know if my work is too long or too short; it comes from what I hear in my head. So a big THANK YOU for your insight! I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing and maybe, sometimes, a movement in my piece will be 10 minutes or longer. How lovely to know the music and length of the music, may go beyond entertainment and have a physical impact on listeners. PS. You were amazing on Salastina. Your Bach Cantata singing son is very fortunate to have you for a father and I thank your amazing parents for putting you on earth.
Please make more of these unscripted videos, please! Or a podcast. I could listen to you riff on these subjects all day and you have legitimately reignited my interest and passion for writing music. Thank you, my friend. You have a new subscriber/follower!
The tradition of Qawali is exactly designed to put listeners in a trance in India and Pakistan. Its derived from Sufi tradition originating from Turkey. Aamer
Hey Ted, I discovered you though Beato's channel. I can listen you talk about music all day, such good insights. It's very sad to see music changing because of people wanting to or feeling like they have to follow an algorithm
I think this relates to the popularity of electronic music and EDM festivals and culture, specifically since the 1990's. Even though this had been done by DJs in nightclubs since the 1970s (beat matching two songs by means of utilizing two turntables and segueing or mixing from one to the other without stop the rhythmic sequencing) the advent of techno and house music lent it self to the rise of DJ culture, where the DJ (the medium, not the creator) became viewed as the primary "performer" (or as I like to think of it, the modern equivalent of a shaman) making long sequences of repetitive rhythms that could go for hours...provided a euphoric, altered state type experience that lent itself to large gatherings. Many younger people describes the festivals as a religious experience. It is their "church"...allowing them to connect with a consciousness that is larger than themselves.
The ideas you present in this video are profoundly moving to me. I have been looking for the last few years for a way to reinvigorate my music, ways to join my love of modern traditions such as rock, blues and pop with ancient musical traditions that have a deeper meaning and use. You have given me some excellent food for thought and inspiration. Thank you. I would love to see more videos from you on these interesting subjects you have touched on here at RUclips.
this is the bestest, most amazing talk i've heard in a while. i've been reading your substack and i'm thrilled to have come across this. so many interesting facts and notions that i had a glimpse about but didn't know in depth. i would say these are the most interesting things said about music that i've ever knew!
This reminded me of the old story about Coltrain’s increasingly unwieldy solos and how they came to exasperate Miles Davis. Eventually Davis, the master of brevity, said “John, this fifteen minute solos thing has got to stop”. Coltrain allegedly replied “but Miles, this is my art, this is my music, and how does anyone know when to say its finished”? Miles said “John, how to finish it is you take the horn out of your mouth”. I’m sure it is right that it takes at least ten minutes of immersion in a rhythmic grove to approach a trance like state. I probably do that during the process of writing a three or four minute pop song. We all do! But my audience for that three minutes of pop is probably happy simply to just be entertained. They weren’t necessarily wanting to be taken into a trance!
I noticed while performing the Karl Jenkin's Requiem, just how long and repetitive the introductory movement was (nearly 7min), and speculated it was for such a reason: To acclimate to the musical setting (at the beginning of the performance, having recently walked in off the street). I also recorded it in 360: ruclips.net/p/PLs2h0txhcJDxY8oiT_pdultr0OGQ7cUGC
As a 90s teenager I used to lay in total darkness on my bed positioned like Vitruvian Man and listen to an entire Pink Floyd album ( dark side of the moon or wish you were here) trying not to move a muscle. I did this many times and there was always a point where my entire body would feel similar to your leg falls asleep. It was as if I could feel every cell in my body vibrating in sync. I also felt the sensation as if I were levitating. Music can be very powerful.
@@BulletproofLeprosy I hadn't thought about this for quite some time. I'm definitely going to try it again soon. It was a very otherworldly feeling that I cannot describe any other activity in life creating that same exact feeling.
A lot of endurance athletes cite repetitive music over an extended period to help them attain a flow state, whereby they become totally immersed in their activity. This brilliant essay goes someway to explain why this might be the case.
I completely get what your presenting and find the extended versions of my favorite artists in a live performance really get one to the euphoria you suggest. That said… I believe the length of a song is not always relevant. Eddie Van Halen’s “Eruption” gets me into the euphoric state and it’s about a minute and a half. I also enjoy “La Villa Strangiato” by Rush is about 10 minutes long. There are countless jazz and classical works that are much longer. If it’s good, it’s good. If I need more to stay “in the moment”, I put the song on “repeat”. What I am not a fan of… the 3 minute requirement imposed by the powers that be. Those contrived tunes can be catchy, like a commercial jingle, but, that doesn’t mean it’s always good or “art”.
I think this is something that deserves further research. I believe there is more nuance to it than just the length of the music, but I think aspects such as repetition and variety in the music as well as melody, harmony, rhythm and timbre and general attitude/mood of the music has effects to the mental brainwave response of the listeners. Also context in which one listens. I used to love listening to thrash metal when I was a teenager, until I moved to another town and had to travel 2-3 hours to get to my band practice every weekend. My music tastes changed to what I call post-metal, which basically means I went from listening to really high bpm distorted guitar songs (with relatively standard song structures) of 3-5 minutes generally, to far slower bpm songs of usually 6-12 minute songs with big emphasis on effects/timbre (with very non-standard song structures and very repetitive melodies/chord progressions - far more hypnotic).
I just learned about Ted Gioia. I am a musician. As an aside I have long been interested in trance states and the inducing of same, whether consciously and deliberately or unconsciously, whether by mantra, self hypnosis, prayer or other means. However not all music is intended to induce such a state, nor would such be desirable in all circumstances. So I agree with the comment below "it comes down to what the song is meant to do and how it's done". I am not sure Mr. Gioia would disagree.
Do you think the album does the same thing? Although it's multiple songs, they continue for like 20 mins half an hour. I have been thinking about individual songs and the dance. When playing live it would seem short songs disturb dances unless the transitions are really good.
I can recall a lot of radio stations in the UK being reluctant to play Bohemian Rhapsody in 1975 when it was released because it was 'too long' at almost 6 minutes. DJs were concerned that people didn't have the attention span to listen to a single that lasted that long, given most 45s were less than 3 minutes up to that point. Strange that modern pop music has moved back to the 3 minute (or less) song again!
I think it comes down to what the song is meant to do and how it's done. 3 minutes is good for expression and story telling. 3 minutes is too short for meditation or ambience. Although some exceptions exist, they are just exceptions. Just the same, multiple short songs can be played back to back to create a scene. As for 3 minute pop songs and similar, I find it dull when it is one or two short and simple melodies that loop with little to no change. I've noticed too many songs out there that are composed or constructed like this. I can tolerate it if the lyrics are good, but I would prefer something else to accompany the lyrics. As for me, I notice I tend to favor songs that are 4 to 6 minutes long. I do enjoy both shorter and longer songs. 4 to 6 minutes is more of a comfort zone for me.
It depends on the story you're trying to tell. There's absolutely no way something like ELP's Tarkus, Edge of Sanity's Crimson or Mingus' Let My Children Hear Music could have their stories told in 3 mins only.
Could you please help me find Andrew Nayer? I’ve googled 4 different spellings and can’t find anything about brain wave research and music. I would LOVE to find his writings.
Hi there, I'm not sure if you ever found the correct spelling-I had a tough time as well-but the spelling is Andrew Neher. It looks like there's a paper available called "A Physiological Explanation of Unusual Behavior in Ceremonies Involving Drums," and it appears he also wrote a book called "The Psychology of Transcendence" which seems interesting. Have a great day!
I agree to an extend. The only thing is that the songs on pop radio aren’t worthy of songs lasting more than three minutes let alone five or ten minutes. It’s hard for me to listen to them as is. Until the music is better, there is no reason for it to be longer.
I wonder if there's a chicken and the egg relationship going on between quality and length. Perhaps if songs tended to be longer there would be a certain pressure on them to be higher quality as well.
I believe in the beauty of simplicity. Norwegian Wood is a perfect 2 minutes song. If i like a short song, even if the song has ended my brain still plays its melody again and again for hours. I guess the mechanical of trance is more inside than outside.
Interesting. If the benefit you're talking about, though, doesn't "kick in" until the 10-minute mark, that excludes even some of the most advanced music. Even prog bands from the 70s rarely went much past 10 minutes per piece. I don't think any of Bach's fugues exceed 10 minutes. And presumably, a 12-minute piece of music is only going to give you the benefit you're describing for about 2 minutes of its length - and presumably only if it has a consistent rhythm throughout.
Good point, but I don't think putting people in a "trance-ike state" is a good idea when they're driving or something. There is a place for both, but publicly I think the 3+ minute song is fine.
It is a bit complicated because length is very complex, Webern is highly advanced and rich and some of his pieces last less than a minute. I think there is no real relationship between length and value, the truth is that there's hardly much difference if you are gonna end up listening to 30 minutes of music regardless. What matters is if there is something deeper or not, a trance state can be great or terrible in my perspective and a piece can be short but evolve and have highly intelligent structure and form that makes is richer than any 20 minute bad generic song. It might even be better cause imagine you have a piece with 30 seconds that has a clear form where each section lasts 10 seconds, it's gonna be easier to absorb all of it and take things into perspective, if I play you the same thing but lasts 100x more without adding much of value you'll probably be much more confused
Ted, I came here after the interview with Rick, in which you talked about the long trance-state music, and Shamanism. I have to ask, are you a fan of The Doors? They consciously did this, live especially, but also on their records.
Trance, in this case is not the same as the drug induced state. Maybe more like a relaxed fixed attention. If the trance effect is on one end of the spectrum, what is on the other.. an intellectual exersize? Some musicians, seem to want to show off their chops and they do a great job but the result is far from a trance state not unpleasent but more like an itellectual exersize.
Isn't persistent rhythm the progeny of dancing and marching? As Jan Huizinga noted, the drum and a professional military came to Europe simultaneously from the Ottomans in the 15th century.
Here are some counterpoints:
1. The rhythms naturally suggested by the neuroscience studies and the experiments of Ptolemy are *repetitive* rhythms, which are not something which is inherent to long pieces which may change drastically over their runtime. The rhythms of jazz, classical, south asian classical, gamelan, etc. are usually highly varied and rich, a far cry from light flickering through a spoked wheel at a regular interval.
2. This is something which, arguably, people *do* routinely take part in, by replaying the same song over and over again or in the form of "club mixes," which are arguably closer to the neuroscience experiments than jazz, classical, or longform rock. People regular seek out these kinds of experience *from* pop music as well as EDM, genres which tend to have more repetitive rhythms.
3. In my personal experience, this has sometimes had a malignant effect. Replaying the same song over and over again has gotten me stuck in a loop where I couldn't find pleasure in other things. Music like classical or jazz which has a more varied progression of ideas has actually been helpful because it helps me to conceive my life in a similar way: moments which are not the most interesting to me right now may give way to plentiful reward. This is just anecdotal, of course, but I think there's a good argument to made that jazz and classical and other forms of longform music tend to actually subvert trance-like states for a different kind of reward, where in there is some kind of progression or journey.
Amazing reflection!
I can see how trance and dance music is more repetitive, but jazz isn’t always comprised of movements, like classical music often is. When I played in jazz bands, the vast majority of material available were lead sheets where there is a head, and then perhaps trading solos, and then a return to the head, but the rhythm and tempo were generally fixed. It’s heavily rooted in a cyclical form. Remember that jazz was primarily dance music before the more exploratory fusion stuff happened. Most jazz is very repetitive and the improvisation brings the audience joy through novelty, showmanship and surprise, while the rhythms and chord changes repeat predictably. That’s why jazz musicians put so much emphasis on “staying in the groove”.
Sir have you heard of the Egyptian legendary singer OUM KOULTHOM?
her songs were 45 minutes each and people would certainly go into a trance or a hypnotic state listening to her, they call it in Arabic a state of "Saltana" from the word "Sultan" which translates to emperor.
I hope you give her a listen.
Try ENTA OUMRI one of her most famous songs, watch how the audience reacts and how she controls them.
I write orchestral music. I never know if my work is too long or too short; it comes from what I hear in my head. So a big THANK YOU for your insight! I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing and maybe, sometimes, a movement in my piece will be 10 minutes or longer. How lovely to know the music and length of the music, may go beyond entertainment and have a physical impact on listeners. PS. You were amazing on Salastina. Your Bach Cantata singing son is very fortunate to have you for a father and I thank your amazing parents for putting you on earth.
Please make more of these unscripted videos, please! Or a podcast. I could listen to you riff on these subjects all day and you have legitimately reignited my interest and passion for writing music. Thank you, my friend. You have a new subscriber/follower!
that's what's up
The tradition of Qawali is exactly designed to put listeners in a trance in India and Pakistan. Its derived from Sufi tradition originating from Turkey. Aamer
Hey Ted, I discovered you though Beato's channel. I can listen you talk about music all day, such good insights. It's very sad to see music changing because of people wanting to or feeling like they have to follow an algorithm
I think this relates to the popularity of electronic music and EDM festivals and culture, specifically since the 1990's. Even though this had been done by DJs in nightclubs since the 1970s (beat matching two songs by means of utilizing two turntables and segueing or mixing from one to the other without stop the rhythmic sequencing) the advent of techno and house music lent it self to the rise of DJ culture, where the DJ (the medium, not the creator) became viewed as the primary "performer" (or as I like to think of it, the modern equivalent of a shaman) making long sequences of repetitive rhythms that could go for hours...provided a euphoric, altered state type experience that lent itself to large gatherings. Many younger people describes the festivals as a religious experience. It is their "church"...allowing them to connect with a consciousness that is larger than themselves.
The ideas you present in this video are profoundly moving to me. I have been looking for the last few years for a way to reinvigorate my music, ways to join my love of modern traditions such as rock, blues and pop with ancient musical traditions that have a deeper meaning and use. You have given me some excellent food for thought and inspiration. Thank you. I would love to see more videos from you on these interesting subjects you have touched on here at RUclips.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I'm increasingly intrigued by song lengths and their significance
Nothing wrong with 3 min songs. Bach Goldberg Variations are a collection of 3 min movements. It’s about what comes next!
this is the bestest, most amazing talk i've heard in a while. i've been reading your substack and i'm thrilled to have come across this. so many interesting facts and notions that i had a glimpse about but didn't know in depth. i would say these are the most interesting things said about music that i've ever knew!
im a small music producer and i have to say that this changes a lot ❤
This reminded me of the old story about Coltrain’s increasingly unwieldy solos and how they came to exasperate Miles Davis. Eventually Davis, the master of brevity, said “John, this fifteen minute solos thing has got to stop”. Coltrain allegedly replied “but Miles, this is my art, this is my music, and how does anyone know when to say its finished”? Miles said “John, how to finish it is you take the horn out of your mouth”.
I’m sure it is right that it takes at least ten minutes of immersion in a rhythmic grove to approach a trance like state. I probably do that during the process of writing a three or four minute pop song. We all do! But my audience for that three minutes of pop is probably happy simply to just be entertained. They weren’t necessarily wanting to be taken into a trance!
I learn so much from your videos, Substack and books. Thank you Ted!
I noticed while performing the Karl Jenkin's Requiem, just how long and repetitive the introductory movement was (nearly 7min), and speculated it was for such a reason: To acclimate to the musical setting (at the beginning of the performance, having recently walked in off the street).
I also recorded it in 360: ruclips.net/p/PLs2h0txhcJDxY8oiT_pdultr0OGQ7cUGC
Incredibly fascinating!
As a 90s teenager I used to lay in total darkness on my bed positioned like Vitruvian Man and listen to an entire Pink Floyd album ( dark side of the moon or wish you were here) trying not to move a muscle. I did this many times and there was always a point where my entire body would feel similar to your leg falls asleep. It was as if I could feel every cell in my body vibrating in sync. I also felt the sensation as if I were levitating. Music can be very powerful.
haha same here :) the body ceases to exist and theres only the music and you
@@BulletproofLeprosy I hadn't thought about this for quite some time. I'm definitely going to try it again soon. It was a very otherworldly feeling that I cannot describe any other activity in life creating that same exact feeling.
George Harrison came up w/ the melody at the end of Hey Jude - he also added that melody to the end of Isn't it A Pity.
Great explanation... Thank you very much
I tend to target my compositions to about 3:30 +/-30. Now I am going to rethink that.
A lot of endurance athletes cite repetitive music over an extended period to help them attain a flow state, whereby they become totally immersed in their activity. This brilliant essay goes someway to explain why this might be the case.
I like Laura Nyro who avoided the formula of the 3-minute song.
I completely get what your presenting and find the extended versions of my favorite artists in a live performance really get one to the euphoria you suggest. That said… I believe the length of a song is not always relevant. Eddie Van Halen’s “Eruption” gets me into the euphoric state and it’s about a minute and a half. I also enjoy “La Villa Strangiato” by Rush is about 10 minutes long. There are countless jazz and classical works that are much longer. If it’s good, it’s good. If I need more to stay “in the moment”, I put the song on “repeat”.
What I am not a fan of… the 3 minute requirement imposed by the powers that be. Those contrived tunes can be catchy, like a commercial jingle, but, that doesn’t mean it’s always good or “art”.
I think this is something that deserves further research. I believe there is more nuance to it than just the length of the music, but I think aspects such as repetition and variety in the music as well as melody, harmony, rhythm and timbre and general attitude/mood of the music has effects to the mental brainwave response of the listeners. Also context in which one listens. I used to love listening to thrash metal when I was a teenager, until I moved to another town and had to travel 2-3 hours to get to my band practice every weekend. My music tastes changed to what I call post-metal, which basically means I went from listening to really high bpm distorted guitar songs (with relatively standard song structures) of 3-5 minutes generally, to far slower bpm songs of usually 6-12 minute songs with big emphasis on effects/timbre (with very non-standard song structures and very repetitive melodies/chord progressions - far more hypnotic).
I just learned about Ted Gioia. I am a musician. As an aside I have long been interested in trance states and the inducing of same, whether consciously and deliberately or unconsciously, whether by mantra, self hypnosis, prayer or other means. However not all music is intended to induce such a state, nor would such be desirable in all circumstances. So I agree with the comment below "it comes down to what the song is meant to do and how it's done". I am not sure Mr. Gioia would disagree.
Do you think the album does the same thing? Although it's multiple songs, they continue for like 20 mins half an hour. I have been thinking about individual songs and the dance. When playing live it would seem short songs disturb dances unless the transitions are really good.
Wonderful
This has given me a lot to think about, brilliant message
Yeah same here
I can recall a lot of radio stations in the UK being reluctant to play Bohemian Rhapsody in 1975 when it was released because it was 'too long' at almost 6 minutes. DJs were concerned that people didn't have the attention span to listen to a single that lasted that long, given most 45s were less than 3 minutes up to that point. Strange that modern pop music has moved back to the 3 minute (or less) song again!
I think it comes down to what the song is meant to do and how it's done. 3 minutes is good for expression and story telling. 3 minutes is too short for meditation or ambience. Although some exceptions exist, they are just exceptions.
Just the same, multiple short songs can be played back to back to create a scene.
As for 3 minute pop songs and similar, I find it dull when it is one or two short and simple melodies that loop with little to no change. I've noticed too many songs out there that are composed or constructed like this. I can tolerate it if the lyrics are good, but I would prefer something else to accompany the lyrics.
As for me, I notice I tend to favor songs that are 4 to 6 minutes long. I do enjoy both shorter and longer songs. 4 to 6 minutes is more of a comfort zone for me.
It depends on the story you're trying to tell. There's absolutely no way something like ELP's Tarkus, Edge of Sanity's Crimson or Mingus' Let My Children Hear Music could have their stories told in 3 mins only.
Great idea
Could you please help me find Andrew Nayer? I’ve googled 4 different spellings and can’t find anything about brain wave research and music. I would LOVE to find his writings.
Hi there, I'm not sure if you ever found the correct spelling-I had a tough time as well-but the spelling is Andrew Neher. It looks like there's a paper available called "A Physiological Explanation of Unusual Behavior in Ceremonies Involving Drums," and it appears he also wrote a book called "The Psychology of Transcendence" which seems interesting. Have a great day!
We agree
Professor, I pose another question: Can we classify a singing song as a Jazz song? Is Jazz only instrumental? Does the human voice disturb Jazz?
It's what the Grateful Dead used to do. This was one of the reasons they had such an enduring audience.
Bravo!
I wonder wether rythm or pitch (vibration) has more effect on our physiology?
Wasn't the 20th Century pop song length determined by the limit of the 78rpm record side?
My performance is usually three minutes...maybe less.
So, Yes was on the right track.
Have you seen Michael Tellinger and Robert Edward Grant about sound and music
Cure for Cancer with frequency
Putting out fire with sound
All those old Indian classical
music 45s are condensed into
a couple minutes.. a raga is
mean to have a beginning,
middle, end.
I agree to an extend. The only thing is that the songs on pop radio aren’t worthy of songs lasting more than three minutes let alone five or ten minutes. It’s hard for me to listen to them as is. Until the music is better, there is no reason for it to be longer.
I wonder if there's a chicken and the egg relationship going on between quality and length. Perhaps if songs tended to be longer there would be a certain pressure on them to be higher quality as well.
Man you should listen to the Yes album: "Tales of Topographic Oceans". It has 4 parts, the shortest of which is about 18 minutes.
Just listened to it yesterday. Excellent album.
I believe in the beauty of simplicity. Norwegian Wood is a perfect 2 minutes song.
If i like a short song, even if the song has ended my brain still plays its melody again and again for hours. I guess the mechanical of trance is more inside than outside.
Agree and I'd add Eleanor Rigby among others.
Interesting. If the benefit you're talking about, though, doesn't "kick in" until the 10-minute mark, that excludes even some of the most advanced music. Even prog bands from the 70s rarely went much past 10 minutes per piece. I don't think any of Bach's fugues exceed 10 minutes. And presumably, a 12-minute piece of music is only going to give you the benefit you're describing for about 2 minutes of its length - and presumably only if it has a consistent rhythm throughout.
Good point, but I don't think putting people in a "trance-ike state" is a good idea when they're driving or something.
There is a place for both, but publicly I think the 3+ minute song is fine.
tbh i tend to prefer a 5 minute song in terms of good length to boredom ratio
It is a bit complicated because length is very complex, Webern is highly advanced and rich and some of his pieces last less than a minute. I think there is no real relationship between length and value, the truth is that there's hardly much difference if you are gonna end up listening to 30 minutes of music regardless. What matters is if there is something deeper or not, a trance state can be great or terrible in my perspective and a piece can be short but evolve and have highly intelligent structure and form that makes is richer than any 20 minute bad generic song. It might even be better cause imagine you have a piece with 30 seconds that has a clear form where each section lasts 10 seconds, it's gonna be easier to absorb all of it and take things into perspective, if I play you the same thing but lasts 100x more without adding much of value you'll probably be much more confused
Sir did you ever listen to
the Residents "Commericial
Album?" Every song is exactly
sixty seconds long and they're
all weird Ha ha
Ted, I came here after the interview with Rick, in which you talked about the long trance-state music, and Shamanism. I have to ask, are you a fan of The Doors? They consciously did this, live especially, but also on their records.
Trance, in this case is not the same as the drug induced state. Maybe more like a relaxed fixed attention. If the trance effect is on one end of the spectrum, what is on the other.. an intellectual exersize? Some musicians, seem to want to show off their chops and they do a great job but the result is far from a trance state not unpleasent but more like an itellectual exersize.
People don't have long enough attention spans now to listen to more than a 3 minute song
Was Beethoven putting us into a trance all these years?
Isn't persistent rhythm the progeny of dancing and marching? As Jan Huizinga noted, the drum and a professional military came to Europe simultaneously from the Ottomans in the 15th century.
Sounds like Ptolemy was to blame for enslavement to television. 🤣
What about playing 3 minute songs in series in order to get to ten plus minutes?
I think they have t be the same rythm to acheive that.