Wood Elves in the Old World
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2024
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Mr. payne and i are going to do a Live Stream today at 1pm est for the channel members. Wood elves vs Orcs & Goblins
Video idea: WE vs Beastmen and only use skirmishers
Will these be made public at some point? Broke wood elves player thirsting for battle reports here...
(sry for the spam. My RUclips decided it would be a good idea to post my comment 6 times....)
@@OldZean they all have a public version out for some time now
I'm asking because I can't find the recording of the wood elves match. Am I blind? Thanks for getting back to me. Id love to see you play them...
One of three people excited for Wood Elves? How dare you?! There's dozens of us! DOZENS!
Wood Elves best elves.
Wood elves were my main back in highschool. Love them.
Every Wood Elf enthusiast, me included, tends to feel like they're the only one. But I'm hearing an awful lot of excitement for this army, actually. Not just from people excited about the rules, or just want to start a new army, but people who have old collections that they're eager to dust off and put on the board again. I was working on my Tomb Kings, but seeing other people's Elves come out of the loft has made me switch tracks and start working on them instead...
DOZENS!
@@alagass6466sorry brah, that ain't how I roll, I like my ears pointy, skin moisturised and staves straight. High elves best
Re:Waystalker, you need to take one to unlock waywatchers in the grand army.
I love my guerilla Wood elves that emerged during 8th. been playing since 5th and Wood Elves have never been the strongest. But the pay-off of having to work so hard and use every rule in the book to your advantage, was so good. Anyway, don't underesitmate the power of fear. The fear of 1 or 2 waystalkers specifically out to snipe the enemy wizards. Undead armies are nowhere without wizards and it WILL affect the way they position their units.
Wood Elves' strength was never properly represented in their stat lines and point costs, it's the way you can successfully manipulate your enemy into not being able to utilize their army's strengths to the fullest, that's the biggest secret to making WE work.
Yeah have a friend that always try to fight with WE like they are infantry bring tree ants and tree kins. They are very easy to pick off with some artillery and high I high S infantry. But meeting someone with lots of arrows and fast stuff makes it all way harder.
So WE is for good players, not those that just want to go straight forward and don't need to think. Thats demon and Chaos armies is for.
Wood elves have always been a very strong army that most players had lots of difficulties to play against because you simply never catch them when the wood elf player knows what to do.
Had my first game since 12 years with my wood elves again. I was so excited! When your opponent is so mad that you outmanoeuvre him that he takes his Minnie's and literally throws them into his box, you know you've done everything right as a wood elve hehe
Nice to see the glow up to Wardancers and Wildwood Rangers. They're both units I really wanted to like in 8th, but were unfortunately subpar. I particularly like the change to Guardian of the Wildwood, and adding the additional damage. In 8th they just felt like the lackluster WE equivalent to Executioners and Swordmasters, now they feel lethal in their own right while still excelling at that anti-Monster niche.
You thinking of running them in units greater than 10?
@@mohican19 Not sure at this point, I think I'll need to see how combat (and unit sizes generally) shakes out now between bigger bases sizes and less lethal/grindier combats. At most though I'd take a 5x3 or 6x3 unit.
Wildwood Rangers do SO MUCH to monsters and monstrous infantry it is seriously scary!
Soporific = induces sleep
Forest dragon breath knocks you out is what it is.
Would be cool if you put an image up on the screen to the units you're talking about.
I am kind of sad that War Dancers don't get strength 4 too, but I think they will be very strong with furious charge and AP -2 or +1 attack. Always goes first means you can kill off that unit before it strikes back at you. Also the ability to have ranks makes their combat less swingy. I was kind of worried about these guys being over powered as open order but might want to just keep them as Skirmishing to maximize the front rank.
I love listening to you guys because you are good at finding powerful combos. The Shadow Dancer with Illusion magic it is. 2d6 hits should give you ~1 killing blow on average!
I guess throwing spears makes sense if you form them up into a couple ranks. Swords in front and spears in back with Motley Crew.
You guys really need to work on speaking more clearly and organizing your material a little bit better. Slow down and pronounced things clearly please.
And add some onscreen stat lines or rules for the viewers to follow along. Right now they are just mumbling into their beards while moving all over the place...
i miss my altar noble already :(
They weren't scared of going complex in rules so am a bit dissapointed kindreds didn't make a return instead of these 2 heroes. Alter kindred was so cool and now with lone character protection back they could have worked again. Stopped using them in 7th when any fireball could just target them down.
@@cmxpiiplit’s easier just to purchase a hero that basically is the kindred you want instead of assembling them piecemeal for a bunch of points, imo
Currently Building My Glade Lord on Forrest Dragon (kitbash), Excited to try things out. I'm leaning towards a melee focused Wood Elf army too. Lots of trees, Eternal Guard with some rangers to back things up.
I don't like that you need a waystalker to have waywatchers in the army now. Also wth happened to kindreds? Should have brought them back, much better than these shadowdancer and waystalker stuff. Alter kindred was so cool and they could have had wildwood ranger kindred along with the others, maybe a hawkrider kindred now that it's a mount.
They have kinda 'shafted' woodies with this edition. The cost of the models when considering this meta and t3 low armour saves, means this is going to be an uphill battle like before 8th.
A lot of the cool features from the 8th codex are all gone:
-No dark magic lores
-No benefits to being in Woods
-Trash lore of athel loren
-Volley fire
-Nerf to volume fire with los-skirmishers also
The high elves have cheaper better base archers.
We are relying on msu tricks, and guerella tactics/movement only again.
Only treekin/treeman can hold a candle to other factions combat units atm
Sorry if I seem tilted...I'm still happy with buffs to some units. We just don't do attrition and toughness like other factions. I barely got to play with asf on par with other elf factions, or proper race rules. Now seems we got nothing in that regard. Talismanic tattoos on some units or chars? Tree spirit rule is only negative. Elven reflexes ok. We get our wood still, which is nerfed.
If dryads had great weapons like dwarf warriors they would be solid. No, they are left as chaff/screen. We got barely any high str attacks or ap outside models with paper armor and t3. So frustrating
I say this cos we all know every army is going to bring in competitive lists high as, high toughness where they can. At the points costs how can a welf deal with a bretonian list at same cost? Pegasus/demography knights? A knightmare!! All high armour units, anything toughness 4+, dawi a hard counter. Even beastmen will destroy our melee and shrug off our shooting with gors, bestigors, or minataurs.
@@keitholiver6152 I think you under estimate the wood elve shooting and over estimate especially dwarfs whom will stand almost no chance against wood elves.
The wood elves shoot your marksmen and all dangerous artillery away and then have fun chasing units of 5 bowmen elves with your regiments. They will be shot handy so that wild riders, wardancers or whatever can run them down, one by one. If the wood elf player wants, the dwarf will never see any close combat at all.
@@richardpagel6959 I don't agree. Dawi shooting is excellent. They have higher toughness to win shooting trades. If wood elf player goes msu I just don't see any way to score consistent victory points. This edition you need to hammer and anvil. Shooting or magic is not going to cut it to carry the whole force or clean opponents of the board. Wardancers are good at killing chaff, but it's high risk with the t3 6++ they have. Standard hit and run required... But who is your anvil? Treekin/Treeman/Dragon? All very expensive. Not much else stands out. Dryads could do this role, but the costs are high again; we don't have reliable core anvil to properly hold the front line. Eternal guard are not it. T3 dressed in paper.
Treekin do look good. There is little synergy in our combat potential outside gimmicks like lowering leadership for terror. Other armies can create fearsome anvils which will dominate the field and dictate the game; using runes, or spells in dark or daemonology perfect for what a wood elf player needs, but painfully does not have access too, or with op magic item combos/special rules.
Can any of our units consistently deny step ups to stop the massacre which ensues when against our paper thin toughness? Our blender unit is only good vs monsters mostly, and fear. It's just as I said an uphill battle. Every race has better options in all positions
Our archers are 32 inch range, I'll take that for 1 point more any day of the week. I don't know if we lost the ability to shrug off the penalty for moving and shooting, waywatchers feel nerfed but I'm not sure yet because they are so darn cheap now.
Equal points of Wild Riders will beat Demigryph Knights with full plate.
Wilder Riders will deal on average 4.7 wounds at higher initiative.
The Demi's will return with an average of 2.7 wounds.
Sisters of thorn seem kinda cracked
kinda is putting it lightly ;P
they are in the running for best unit in the game so far imho
@@CatharsisChaser I don't really like their models and I used all mine to make wildriders, I wonder if there is another sculpt that I could use in their place.
FOR ALGORYTHMO! FOR THE STEVE! FOR LUGNUT MCGILLYGULLY JR!
Not gonna lie being able to give -2ap to all archers seems kinda busted
It existed in 8th as -3, this is actually a nerf
If you spam it you end up with a comically elite army that just can't hold up though, you'll just be outnumbered and cornered in melee
@@hamzahsajjad7952 ah I didn't really play much 8th, I remember in 6th they had str4 bows at close range
Damn, wish that was an arrow option, that would be super good against my mate playing dwarfs 😂
It's not you'll be outnumbered and die in combat.
@@hamzahsajjad7952 As the 8th edition was busted as a whole anyway, this is nothing people should compare it too. ToW tries to be more like 6/7th edition. But ToW also seems to be messed up sadly.
Love this guys ❤
Personally I think that asrai longbows should have been naturally ap1 with no armorbane, the premier tricksy shooting army's weapon should've had a larger bonus than 2 inches imho... even the magic bows don't have ap...
Aside from that there are a couple of things I'm disappointed in like the lack of an Acorn of Ages type magic item so you are limited to the single forest you get plus whatever else is on the board naturally and the spell that lets you create one
Forest Spites look almost entirely ass except for the lamentations of despair on treemen (-1 ld for terror/panic tests is pretty spicy)
On the positive not though the toning down of flammable makes the trees alot more appealing, especially the super beefy treemen
Aaaaaaand Sisters of the Thorn are arguable the single best unit in the game from my first impression.... Fast cav unit that shoots with a 12" ap-1 poisoned javelin with quickshot/move & shoot/fire&flee , 4+ ward, and gets to CHOOSE a spell BEFORE DEPLOYMENT from 2 amazing magic lores... all for 24ppm and a min 134pts/5 to get the full lvl 2 casting bonus... and they are a special choice
Lets just say if you want to induce massive levels of salt and lose friends you can run 7 units of these in a 2k list all running magic missile/vortex spells like fireball/pillar of fire or better yet windblast... a spell that does d3+3 hits @ s5 ap1 from 15" AND pushes the unit away 2" afterwards
Run up, throw your 5 poisoned javelins, blast away with your magic, fire and flee when charged, rinse and repeat.... absolutely disgusting
Even if you aren't cheesing I think a min of 2 units are almost mandatory so that you can cast curse of arrow attraction (21" 7+ cast hex) to re-roll all hits of 1 in shooting against a target
Ammo for the elves lets you customise them.
@@tripp9278 as it did in the last edition as well... but the arrows are inherently worse this edition in almost every way
just because you can pay points to make an expensive unit with what is essentially a regular longbow better in a certain aspect doesn't help the fact that it's just a s3 weapon with no ap at the end of the day
trueflight arrows are probably the best on non hero/waywatcher units since they let you play a cagey skirmish game for only 1 point more
arcane bodkins seem the best on a lord with the bow or loren and swiftshiver shards on a waywatcher
but if you really lean into an all archer list you'll be primarily relying on scouts kiting backwards and firing & fleeing to get enough shots to make it effective, but then you're playing on a knife's edge and heavily relying on rolling hot with what is essentially just a normal longbow
@@CatharsisChaser aren't wood elf archers only 1 point more than high elf ones?
And wood elves get armour bane and more range?
I don't have the rules yet so just going off videos and gut feeling but surely it's far too early to be writing off units.
@@tripp9278 the only difference between a wood elf longbow and a regular one is the 2 extra inches and the ability to fire special arrows, they both have armorbane 1
sea guard have warbows which have a shorter range and no ap but the archers have longbows
also I'm not writing off the shooting potential of wood elfs but just the fact that it's pretty much in line with equivalent elf archers (which is a nerf) and you have to pay a substantial bit to get nerfed capabilities
you can definitely have a full shooting army with fire & flee/skirmishers but you have to play super cagey since you have no armor and only a bit of combat capability with glade/warhawk riders
HE has a -1 ap on bows....
Awesome video. I wonder how the interaction with the Highborn’s strike first (initiative 10) and a great weapon (initiative 1) will work. Will they cancel out? Will one trump the other? Excited to find out because the Highborn with the greatweapon is one of my favorite miniatures ever made.
They cancel out,
The net result is that the highborn strikes at their normal initiative of 8 or something, which means if they charge they’re at 10 anyway
Flock of doom seems a bit pointless in an army with lots of bows
It's an option if you need a magic missile.
Remember it's something you can always choose, you're never forced to take it.
Asrai let's goooooo!!!
When will yall be covering Orcs and Goblins???
The channel "Grim After Dark | A Warhammer 40K Late Night Show" have a good video about Orcs and Goblins. Black orcs full plate armor for 12p.
So if they get Strike First for being elves (I10), and then +1 initiative first round of combat for being wood elves, does that mean they strike at Initiative 11? I didn't know you could go past 10.
Some elfs do in fact go to 11 (or even further beyond) 🤘
The models with Strike First don't have Elven Reflexes. Even if they did, I suspect stats are capped at 10, though I don't know for sure.
@@axelskovgaardteglskov8443 this is generally ture but sometimes you can have a spear (+1 ini when charged in front) or have charged yourself (up to +3/4)
strikes first specifies "initiative 10 before modifiers" so you can in fact strike before impact hits or other first strike models under certain circumstances
So à waystalker with bow of loren ans arrows that double shots gives him 4 sniper shots?
If so I would be tempted with that, but perhaps the ap2 arrows are better... Depends vs who ofc
Don't think they stack unfortunately form the way the wording of both rules works :( multiple shots state "may make a single attack or use the number under the bracket" and bow of loren states that you can just make a number of attacks equal to your attack characteristic
so multiple shots does not technically give you a multiplicative number of attacks per single attack you can make but rather just replaces the value
The bow of loren is amazing on a glade lord when you give him arcane bodkins, so he gets 4 s4 ap2/ab1 attacks
Put him in a unit of warhawk riders and you've got a mobile pseudo repeater bolt thrower lord that can fire and flee at will (and is still pretty scary in combat as well)
Swiftshiver shards and Asyendi's Bane is better on the waystalker since you get quick shot, two attacks, and can re-roll a single miss
(this is also a great place to put your Hail of doom arrow since you can almost guarantee the important hit on a re-rolling 2 (bs7 long range -1 multiple shots -1 so 5) and even follow up with a cheeky regular arrow afterwards
@@CatharsisChaser cheers! Appreciate your thoughts.
Generally you want wild riders in the flank for combo charges, I think, they can maul anything that isn’t super heavy armored and they can overrun into the next combat and keep stabbing if things go your way. I always treated mine like a vaguely guided missile. :p
@@bryanquick3349 appreciate that. But I love the idea of waystalker snipers! Haha. I'd like to have a small ally contingent with my Bretonnians
@@CatharsisChaserUnless I’m reading something wrong the penalties to shooting effect your to hit even if you’re BS6+ or over you would be hitting on 4s for multiple shots long range, but it will not effect your re-roll to hit when you’re BS6+
wardancers make slayers look way overcosted
I mean slayers are better vs high t
Dwarfs in general will stand almost no chance against wood elves anyway. They shoot your marksmen and all dangerous artillery away and then have fun chasing units of 5 bowmen elves with your regiments. They will be shot handy so that wild riders, wardancers or whatever can run them down.
@@richardpagel6959 Maybe, i feel like quarrelers and thunderers will trade pretty well vs WE archers. Heavy armor + shield +T4. You can also take the banner that gives a ward vs shooting. Also gyros could be really good.
Sry, but its other way around....
@@richardpagel6959
@@winterh46334 Can dwarves move and shoot with those weapons? Welf bows are 32 inches.
@mountainminiatures trying to renew my sub but youtube isn't letting me. . Don't have access to the discord anymore so not sure if someone know how to get it to go through?
TREE PEOPLE
All Asrai Longbow also have "S" as strength instead of usual "3". Which means Heroes and Lords arrows have 4+ str.
Quick Shot move and shoot without penalty, lets units March and Shoot later. And lets you Stand and Shoot even if your closer than enemy movement characteristics
Hawk Eye Archer - Remember theres still Lookout Sir.
As to the waywatchers - you cant take them without Waystalker now.
Wardancers - They can mix and match weapons ( motley crew) so you can take hand weapons for first row, and spears for second row. First row gets 4 attacks each when charging and +1A dance. Only str3 tho. With second row with spears 5x5 for 10 models thats 25 attacks WS6/S3
For character joining units - They cant join monstrous Infantry coz they afraid to be stomped
quick shot lets you move and shoot with no penalty as well as stand and shoot within enemy move distance when charged
move and shoot is the keyword that allows you to march and shoot
Sooo the Bow of Loren counts as an Asrai longbow- so you can (and should!) take magic arrows with them. That's 4 S4 shots, which can be poisoned, ignoring cover or at AP -2... but wait, it gets better! You can give your lord a potion of strength for a round of S5-7 shots! The Dakka lord is back!
@@AbenZin1 Yeppers. I would also add Bow of Loren is propably best used on Lord, becouse on heroes it only adds 1 attack, which is not big of a deal for 40points
@@CatharsisChaser ye, they said that so i kidna filled the info they didnt, but i see how it might be confusing, ima edit
Also, Wardancers may take a standard now; I see Razor Standard looking real nice.
A dragon is t3 ?
+3 toughness to the character
@@globoxx1625👍🏼cheers
Where are you getting the info from?
Jesus
GW sent them the rulebooks early
They made them all up, even printed their own fake books and everything
And can we compare hammerers to wildwood rangers and see who has it better right here. It's unbelievable to me the pointing there