You forgot to mention why Minecraft doesn't need this kind of system. It's because Minecraft multiplayer is a decentralized network of servers. Each server has its own rules and administrators. Minecraft doesn't need a centralized moderation. Minecraft needs better moderation tools for server owners and administrators.
Exactly! This chat report system should have been added with an opt out option but also for the ability to have the reports go to the sever moderators. This way servers could decide who they want in control. Either no one, Mojang, themselves (the server mods/admins), or a hybrid of Mojang and themselves I guess.
Unfortunately, they legally have to comply with the laws of certain countries because free speech only exists in the US. Same for any international company involving games or social networking in general.
Mojang: *is incapable of investigating servers that break the eula* Also mojang: *is incapable of moderating their in game store* Also mojang: "we'll personally investigate every single report and won't make false calls, believe us"
@@AurisMochi no it’s mojang. Not everything that happens to Minecraft is on Microsoft. Mojang can do wrong, and they’ve done a lot of wrong in this situation
@@Random_Person.-. yeah Mojangs track record is listening and takeing feedback while Microsoft’s track record is ruining things and N0T listening and takeing feedback
The part that angers me the most is the fact that for weeks they had the utter gall to say "we value your feedback" while subsequently ignoring the overwhelming flood of negative feedback going as far in some cases as to openly mock people about their negativity and down-voting the chat reporting posts 'into oblivion'. If they were at least honest about their intentions it would be a slightly different story. Instead we were lied to about any sort of 'value' they see in the community and near the end told to suck it up. Then when the exploits came out they ran damage control on twitter saying they fixed all the issues. Given the state of the G named mod set by Gild and Ada, there is clearly a lot left to be desired. But we're supposed to just ignore that I guess. The cherry on top. leaks then came out showing that community personalities were basically on payroll to downplay the whole ordeal. Absolutely ludicrous.
Yeah it was a massive shitshow and it broke trust massively with a lot of the playerbase. Especially with the Content creator bit where they were already in the know. I'm glad someone like DocM77 was trying to be a voice of reason at least during it but even then he got shunned by some of the other CCs that were defending the system with their life.
I mean there’s a difference between feedback and outright pestering a company, if you continually respond with backlash and keep bothering them, they will most likely never want to respond to you again.
@@anthonyhack1164 That is also feedback tho Dont get me wrong directly harassing devs and making it a huge problem for them is not the way, but showing a clear dislike towards something developed from not just 1 but many people is enough feedback to say "Something is wrong and could be changed/improved"
And the way Hank talks about it (and how long he took to release this video) its almost like he can't be negative towards this "feature" for risk of prosecution/backlash from Microsoftcok
my main issue with this is that with most other games, the servers are hosted by the parent company, and therefore they have the right to regulate all the chat messages and whatever else on it. All Minecraft servers are hosted (or at least paid for) by members of the community and are not run by mojang. So it doesn't make any sense for mojang to have control over a server that isn't theirs to control. it should be up to the server owners what do with chat messages (and also their responsibility to deal with bad actors in those servers)
Yeah I don't even understand why Antvenom tried to make that comparison to other games having chat reporting. At the bare minimum this system should of only been forced onto servers Microsoft/Mojang host. Then they could maybe allow servers to opt in instead of forcing it onto everyone by default.
totaly agree , had they made a system : player makes report , serverowner get notified(or staff ) , they check if its again their server rules , if so -> send report , if not delete report . The idea of a chat report system is a good one but as you said they dont own the hardware , server rules should take priority over mojang rules. Example : Legal drinking age in my country is 14 , so a 14 year old could get banned on a server hosted in said country , while beeing from said country , which makes everthing he said "legal" , yet could still get banned. This system is flawed , they dont pay for the hardware nor request serverowners approval , therefore download nochatreport and they can shove this system where the sun dont shine.
@@BlazingTide but it's not the same they own the game but the servers are not. Roblox is the closest, as well look at what Microsoft did with beam / mixer which doesn't even exist now
When I was 18(over 30 now) I was let onto a server that was intended for 18+, it wasn't a hard rule, they were just weeding out anyone who might be to young for foul language and drug or political discussion, the server was very wholesome people got along great, even when they didn't like each other. The forum we ran out of, one day interjected it's unwarranted 3rd party moderation, which started a domino effect that killed our community. I never found anywhere I fit in like I did there. RIP Duncan Trussel Family Hour Minecraft server
My personal concern with it from the start is third party reports. Say you prank your friend and they jokingly insult you, however, someone else on the server sees their insult and decides to report it, despite it having no affect on them. An example outside the game of this would be two friends bantering and a third child thinking they are bullying one another and reporting it to the teacher. The difference between this happening outside vs in-game is that if a teacher was to act upon the report, they would speak with the friends, gathering context of the situation, recognise that this report has been a mistake (or potentially an intentional attack on someone by reporting them) and neither of the friends would be punished. However, Mojang take the report at it's face value, the context that "person A was insulting person B", without talking to person A and person B to understand this isn't the case. Mojang are then punishing people for "harassment or bullying" because they don't have the context that this is bantering between friends (potentially following a prank), or that the third party not involved in the conversation reported them with the malicious intent to punish "person A was insulting me." despite having no actual involvement in the conversation outside witnessing it.
@@i_love_games110 And people could possibly dispute Mojang in court if they allow appealing and something goes wrong, and mojang doesn't wanna deal with it, so they cant.
"I'm going to burn down your house!" What they meant: The house the player built in Minecraft. How Mojang can interpret this: A real life terrorism threat. I think we all see the problem.
"Im going to invent combustile lemons to burn your house down!" mojang interpretation: house built ingame meaning: real-live word terrorism using only words which always contain lemons.
"I'm going to burn down your house! DISCLAIMER: BY ALL MEANS ONLY THE PLAYER CREATED STRUCTURE ON THIS MINECRAFT SERVER AND BY NO MEANS ANY BUILDING IN REAL LIFE."
This is a slap in the face to all servers with moderators and the community in general. Especially since it’s so horribly insecure. Literally all they had to do was implement this system only on official Mojang sanctioned servers/realms, etc
Honestly, even just making it actually possible to truly opt out without MODs would have been something I'd take. It's being handled in a really no effort way on Mojang's part.
The worst part is that any kind of outcry they get from adding this feature will be ignored until it stops being talked about. This same problem has happened before. Resistance stops because it's not doing anything, not because we're suddenly ok with it or have "gotten used to change".
You can be reported and abanned if you're playing 1.19 and upwards, if you're playing 1.18.2 or less, you can't be reported, and thus can't be banned while playing them, but if you're reported while playing 1.19+ and banned, you're now banned in every single version after 1.7 (iirc), lower versions should still work as they don't have the current authentication services implemented.
I really think what mojang is attempting to do is a "one size fits all" and didn't think into the grey areas. They're really only seeing in black and white, and it's very invasive.
They're doing what all other Microsoft games are doing. Banning people and policing what's said. All for people who can't figure out mute buttons. Catering to snowflakes that just can't move on without needing to strong arm companies into stealing a product from someone else.
Some of the people defending this feature really do give that impression. However, I still think clickbait RUclipsrs like ItzJhief spreading blatant misinformation were worse.
The reason why they don't add a reason you are banned is so you can't dispute it in court. It's still scummy and they should definitely be held accountable for it.
nope. game companies reserve the right to ban you from minecraft for any reason they deem fit. you accepted the license when you play the game. you accepted the fact that they can revoke it for no reason whatsoever, and you have no choice but to accept it.
as a linux user i miss the days of notch talking about open sourcing minecraft. a vid on the quasi-openess of the minecraft code which allowed modding to flourish would be interesting
I feel like if a server is in Whitelist mode, the chat reporting should be automatically disabled. Whitelisting should already take people's behavior into account, or at the very least, the server admins have accepted the responsibility themselves.
Counterargument: players have no idea that a whitelist is enabled, how many and who are in it. If that's what all it took to disable the system, I'd expect plugins that implement their own whitelist system and just automatically add any new players to the vanilla whitelist system as they join 😅
@@MadisOtenurm but for a whitelisted server they have to give their username to someone who has access to the server's internal config files. There's no way they wouldn't know about the whitelist.
@@Immerayon While I haven't made any plugins, I would expect a plugin to just be able to automatically add that player once they attempt to connect, by intercepting the connecting packet.
@@MadisOtenurm then what would be the point of a whitelist at all. The whole point of a whitelist is to only allow people on a list to join a server. Typically this is done between friends playing together. Adding people to that list automatically would defeat the purpose of a whitelist.
Keep an eye out for future Minecraft updates, which remove the "enforce-secure-profile" tag (treating it as always true) and new Mojang policies which allow reporting and enforcement even on unverifiable messages.
My main issue is this: So, Mojang has seen that their report system is failing due to mods, and then they say that mods are going to be replaced with the marketplace, just like in bedrock and come up with some lousy exuse of why they did it, eg. mods take to much time to make
have you ever heard of microsoft's 3 E's? Embrace, Extend And Extinguish. now ask yourself, what part of those 3 E's are we supposed to be in right now?
@@mr_indie_fan Yup, we have to get aggressive.. We have been complying for far too long, and without change from Mojang. Now, we need to speak with what hurt most, Money and Popularity. Start using mc less and less, tarnish the game's reputation by stating these problems. Mojang says concept art isnt a promised feature right? Don't worry, Us supporting the game continuing on isnt as well.
I think that another reason this had so much backslash was because of what the Wild Update was, being a flop and how they didn't add promised features and then they added the chat reporting. Bad timing
YES! I was about to comment the same thing! The chat reporting was just the icing on the shit cake that was the Wild Update and Mojang's many broken promises over the past few years. They couldn't have picked a worse time to release something as serious as the chat reporting feature.
Yeah, if they implemented the chat reporting on a really good update. Then many people wouldn’t even complain and give normal feedback on the chat report rather than hysteria and the chat reporting being controversial
Not to mention the fact they also later retroactively edited-out the "promised features" from concept art when using it in videos. Why would they need to go back and edit the fireflies and birch forests out of concept art? It would be less work to just leave it as is. Mojang definitely has their priorities mixed up.
There actually was a Gatekeep exploit too but it was patched with 1.19.2. You could kick every player on the server if you let your key expire then sent a message.
Even if this system was entirely safe from any exploit ever, it’d still be unforgivable to be subjected to it. What happens when mojang and a significant portion of the community disagree about whether something should be ban worthy, or when the community itself is divided in opinions over what should and shouldn’t be allowed? Inevitably, conflict happens. There’s a reason the java multiplayer scene has been so decentralized all this time. Forcing moderation to become so is the antithesis of how the community operates. As long as this system remains as is, minecraft simply will not be in good shape. If mojang insists on keeping this abomination and wants the community to not be up in arms, then at a bare minimum: Servers must have an option to disable the whole thing without the use of mods, Players must have the game inform them of whether or not a server has reports enabled before joining, and If a player owns thier own server, they must be allowed to bypass global bans to join it. But after how badly mojang has run things since 1.9, I’m not getting my hopes up. Hytale can’t come soon enough…
With Minecraft Java being such a community driven game, i am shocked by the fact of how much Mojang didnt listen to what is quiet possibly the biggest uproar since the combat update.
Honestly I didn't mind the combat update. It fundamentally changed the game and fractured the community but objectively the features were alright, I loved the implementation of Elytra, and much of the backlash was just dislike of change. This... this is different. The only people supporting this are the folks who constantly whine about "the children" even though they probably haven't even joined a server and its not Mojang's job to babysit kids. Everybody understandably despises this, as it goes against the core philosophy of a player driven game.
@@StuffandThings_ Mojang has been heading in this direction for quite a while with their environmentalist propaganda and recently the account migration.
They simply NEED to tell people when they ban them WHY they banned them. You paid for the product you need to be told how you broke the TOS. This is a recurring problem in ALL live services. There needs to be more legislation demanding companies give this information to the affected parties.
Sadly you must look deeper into things that you pay for/sign.. In most cases, you can be banned for or without a reason and there's most likely a section in the TOS. I myself include that in any rules I make because there's always ways to exploit a rule since rules seem to be made to break. Again yes you did pay for it, I'd really look into all of the things you do because most corporations have the right to ban for no reason or a reason with or without your acknowledgement.
@@Mr_Maskins That's precisely why there needs to be better international legislation to protect the consumer. I get that there are TOS for every service but right now they can change said TOS whenever and however they want with no repercussion whatsoever. When I bought this game the TOS were very different. Legislation should exist to protect me as a consumer against this.
Its also frustrating that they've managed to sneakily change the TOS on us. It used to just be essentially "you bought the game, you own it now congrats" but they've added in so many more clauses such that now you're _technically_ subject to all sorts of rules. TOS's as a whole are such a broken, scummy thing that it amazes me nothing more has been done.
I have a bad feeling that the ambiguous reasons why people are banned (not just from Minecraft, but basically anything online, like social media, etc) is because the admins secretly rely on the chilling effect to keep the plebs afraid, so nobody pushes boundaries. It also squashes dissent and open discussion though, but this is just collateral damage in the name of the bottom line.
I loved this video. Especially all the little details. The reference to Schlatt's iconic "Unlimited bacon, but no games, or games, unlimited games, but no games" and LEMMiNO's music at the end. They really just gave the video a nice feel, especially the music you chose. Great video as always, Ant!
Only thing is I think most of us demanding it be removed just feel that this is a breach of our privacy, especially since they turned the snooper back on permanently. And that the response we’ve been getting has been that they aren’t hearing us and that they still believe that this is a game for only children. Many adults play this game and the proof is the multitude of servers that have their own moderator teams and rules proving that we can moderate them on our own just fine, and it just feels disrespectful to not make an effort to acknowledge them. Even if this gets shoved down our throats moderator teams should have chat reports from their server come to them first to deal with these events according to the rules of the server and with serious cases being forwarded to Mojang for record and for heavier punishments.
My perspective on this is that parents expecting the internet to keep their child safe and blaming the corporations for the user’s behavior is making it go to dudu.
Actually it’s the government. Basically all companies have their value partially determined by ESG (which is propped up by the government) so in order to get the value for Microsoft they deserve they have to include things like censorship
@@n1ghtscap376 I heard that the reason they bought minecraft is so that they can take so much data from the people playing the game. Basically, microsoft is like china
There are likely plenty of Mojang employees that are just as upset about this change as the community. The hurtful part comes in when they’ll get fired for speaking out about it.
Every server has their own rules in accordance with the EULA. Don't comply with those rules? You get banned. This system has worked since SMP became available during Alpha in 2010. We never asked for nor needed this easily exploitable global reporting system. It is completely baffling why Mojang is doing this. They even doubled down by deleting complaints on their official feedback page and ignoring reddit discussions. They worked hard to gain back the community's trust with 1.13 and onwards, and they just threw it away.
I would like to point out that if they did work hard to get back the community’s trust during 1.13, then why was the Phantom implemented so poorly? It seems like the dev who made the Phantom only spent a day doing it.
@@HungryWarden I do agree, however that doesn't detract from the multitude of other additions in 1.13 and most later updates. Up until that point, the game suffered from mediocre updates for years, often with long wait times. It really was a nice change of pace, and unfortunately Mojang has fallen back into these weak updates since the caves and cliffs update delays
Sometime after this controversial update, Mojang on the Minecraft subreddit doubled down and said they wouldn't remove the chat report system. The downvotes that statement got at the time were crazy, I haven't seen something like it since the legendary "Sense of pride and accomplishment" comment in Battlefront 2's Subreddit in 2017...
When EA made that comment, it gave me a reason to never want to play Battlefront 2 in my life (not that I wanted to because I'm not interested in those games). If Mojang is gonna start to act like EA in that sense, I will never play any version past 1.19 until the day I die. In my brain, I do not see 1.19.1 or 1.19.2 as canon to Minecraft at all.
Wanted to update saying that I just realized there is a NoChatReports mod that you can install on Curseforge if you still want to play on 1.19.1+. Because of that, I might play those versions with that mod unless/until Mojang bypasses the mod. Just wanted to mention this in case anyone thought I was overreacting.
@@rudyranger249 Is Minecraft's new versions seriously that bad? Roblox has had bad censorship and moderation for as long as I can remember. The chat filter filters out all long number strings just because there's a chance it's a phone number whilst there is still gore, terrorist flags and sexual images being uploaded as decals all the time. Reporting on Roblox is also terrible because it almost always leads to nothing until the day they yet again break their automated bots and get 1000s of accounts banned for no reason. I've generally thought of Roblox's moderation as almost completely backwards. Although it's not the case now, for years the words gay, lesbian and bisexual used to be hashtagged by the filter and you could get banned for even just saying them without anybody responding to it. It literally took them years to realize that banning those words looked worse than having a bunch of kids spamming it as an insult at each other. Also Minecraft will never be at the level where they block songs from being played on noteblocks because of copyright like Roblox did with ingame boomboxes. I get that Roblox was under pressure but they literally force-privated all audios and now you have to get manual approval from a game's creator in order for a song to work in their game, and that's assuming the automated bot doesn't remove it for copyright beforehand. They completely destroyed a huge part of the community doing that, it was so stupid.
Mojang as of late has had a huge communication problem. Historically it's been hard to provide feedback outside of Twitter and Reddit, but even now that they have dedicated channels available for feedback it becomes radio silence. They go back on their promises and erase evidence, they say things that the community knows isn't true, they hide features from the average user... This whole chat reporting situation and how they handled it is the culmination of all of these issues. I don't think Microsoft is entirely to blame considering that multiple Mojang devs have outright stated that they wanted to do this and it was without pressure from higher up. It's just weird and a shame that a game that prides itself on its cultural influence and community is starting to put up a front.
I'd really like to learn what went through the heads of some of the devs that wanted such an unnecessary system in the first place. Forget the flaws as they came to be, just the idea of doing what Roblox is mocked for, but with complete online banning... on top of minecraft not needing such a feature for a decade, but now it's just a great time to implement it??? This just stinks of either a fish out of water situation or investors pushing for something they think will boost PR... idk, just fishy af
@@lukeeatschips6324 > what went through the heads of some of the devs that wanted such an unnecessary system in the first place. You are looking at the wrong people. Look at Twitter users, PR department and their interactions. (ah you said it at the end) This is what happens when the mainstream hits a space (the virtual space), where its first users praised it for being a ruleless platform giving way to creativity. The mainstream masses diluted the early adopters and then dictated their own rules. And of course, the governments weren't gonna allow a lawless space to exist. Doesn't matter that it wasn't theirs at any point but created by private telecommunication companies.
Well when they found out a developer wasn’t a nazi they decided to try and kill everyone and their families, so I guess they’re done with this community
Minecraft may have continued growing (some may even say exponentially so), but ever since its acquisition by Microcock, it has devolved into a mere husk of what it used to be. The pizzazz and sense of community that used to be associated with it back in its heyday is but a glimmer of the raging fire it used to be.
Switch all servers to “offline” and implement a login system like other servers have. Could spice it up with 2FA by default to the registered email so insecure “password” passwords won’t cause account theft.
The reason this feels all so weird on Java Edition is considering that a majority of these servers are privately run and owned, as opposed to say Twitter where you are simply commenting under an account running on their platform/their servers. Its weird that I can be banned on my own server by some random who joined because of "harassment" (extremely vague and subjective). Additionally, its annoying that certain topics like alcohol/drugs and "intimate imagery" are banned even if the server is advertised as 18+. Also drawing the line between "hate speech" and politics I guarantee you will be problematic.
I bet if Antvenom made a video on how he liked tye PCRF SalC1 wouldve kept quite, before u say its an assumption the PCRF controversy is made entirely on assumption
I have a plugin installed on my server that breaks chat reporting. Its my responsibility as server owner to protect my players accounts, even if it's protecting them from mojang itself. Mojang lying about gaslight "not working" are a big part of why I have 0 trust in them or any of the devs anymore.
Finally, redstone telegraphs might become useful (you can't report lever flips/button presses, can you?) For short-range communication, you can use signs/writable books, but that might change if they decide to implement sign/book reporting...
The issue with Microsoft's "Minecraft Investigators" team is that a profit-motivated company will never spend more than the bare minimum on tech support systems like this. It's obvious that MC Investigators will be an underpaid and understaffed team, likely contractors, who won't have the resources to accomplish anything of value even in the cases where they could do something good. Like most call-center style teams, they'll probably be paid/rated by how many reports they process, which incentivises quick reviews and swift judgements. They will not look deeply into matters, they will not spend lots of time deliberating over the context of any given situation. They'll look at the chat logs for 30 seconds and press a button. And that's just the humans. As we've seen with social media reporting systems, most reports are handled exclusively by AI, which are notoriously terrible at understanding context. People's accounts will be at the mercy of an unfeeling, unthinking algorithm. An algorithm that will take everything literally, obey the letter of the law rather than the spirit, and will never consider appeals.
That's also not accounting for human-error in reporting either by those making the report or by those evaluating the report. Humans aren't always the best judges, but we have to make do. Especially when it can be sometimes complex matters that go a lot deeper than just "did you say this thing or did you not", such as matters about intent, context, weight-of-damage, and likelihood of repeat offense.
This system is literally the system that made it where I no longer wanted to play multiplayer, and only play singleplayer on LAN with my friends. Thank you for covering this, as Mojang needs to hear.
@@dudeofdudovia Yeah, he talked about that and that completely slipped my mind. I swear Mojang has fallen hard. That, combined with blockchain technology and the hypocrisy of not doing NFTs around the same time is painful. I hate NFTs and the blockchain just to clarify, but that's just a painful thing to see in terms of how much I love this game.
What I think will happen is that some popular Multiplayer optimizer mods will add a system to the mod that changes all the messages into /TELL command messages thus the message gets filtered by the server, and trough /tell posted in chat. This way every comment/message is trough /tell and it is impossible to verify if said user actually said it, because the verify checkmark is gone
What puts the nail in the coffin for me is lifetime bans. I hate every single aspect of this system, but the thought of losing multiplayer on my account _forever_ is something else entirely. I'd at least barely tolerate this system if bans were limited to 30 days *whatever* the situation may be, and that's still pushing it.
I just don't understand why it's even a ban and not a mute! sure, if a player consistently harasses others I'm all for perma mute (after multiple strikes), but banning multiplayer altogether? can't even play with friends on discord? it's CHAT reporting, not GAME reporting, it's so backwards
@@thisisbeagle2605 Maybe because it's really easy for them? idk. In the current configuration, they just have to tell their servers not to authenticate certain players to effectively ban them. Muting players would require additional work and might be more easily circumventable if the player has a mod and the server doesn't want to comply with Mojang. But again, having code that doesn't work very well hasn't stopped them from going this far.
Especially when there are people who have had their accounts since the beginning. I would be pissed if I lost my 2012 account, I can't imagine losing a 2010 account.
@@ImpaledBerry if they went all the way to implement blockchain technology to "secure" chat messages and can even get extra messages for "extra context", they can definitely change how chat works to make Cross Server mutes a thing, we've already gotten some changes over the years so it's definitely doable. Just disabling chat on muted users with a "You've been muted for unpleasant behavior" message would be enough in the client side, while on the server side you could tag the player's account on the authentication system as "muted", so when they connect to a server and your account is authenticated, even if you get a mod to re-enable chat when muted, when you send messages, the server can just ignore anything relating to chat that is sent by the muted player, so your messages could just straight up just not even arrive to the server.
It's for a children is such BS lmao, A majority of the Java community is mostly adults, whereas Bedrock edition is mostly younger kids, Java did not need this system at all. And considering Java servers have been self-moderating themselves ever since Multiplayer first came out, so this whole chat reporting system is just a waste of time.
@@FrozenDragon0630 the only on bedrock is further fine with me since there's literally like 8 servers and they're all technically working with Microsoft. Doesn't at all excuse the Singleplayer chat and sign censoring, though.
That and the render dragon also completely breaks custom skyboxes (and the sun as well) and removes shader support on mobile devices that don't support RTX.
I've been shadow-muted for a good two years, and I've tried everything, but I can't determine why I'm shadow-muted. Its me and another one of my friends, so this is frustrating. I can't even chat with them as we can't see each other's messages. Seeing Ant take a response on this is calming.
They messed up big time by not letting this be an "opt-in" feature. Let server owners decide themselves if they want the reporting feature or to go without and have their own rules.
I had actually brought that point up to Jappa in a tweet he made a while ago. From what another twitter user told me, if server owners were given the ability to opt out, that would basically just make the entire feature pointless. I think Mojang already knew this in advance which is why it was never included as an option. That's just my own speculation though.
@@mayravixx25 that’s exactly why they did it. They want to force this on everyone. Part of this is due to the government because if they don’t do this basically it makes their company worth less money
It cannot be opt in by law. It's called ESG laws. Regulates companies so that they are held accountable for what their customers say and do. Y'all voted for these types of laws either directly or indirectly.
@@kimkimpa5150 Said as if the world is ran by one country or that one country's laws should apply to everyone. Companies/ creators shouldn't be held accountable for their consumers actions in the first place.
Apparently most servers already use a system that consume the chat message, and outputs a status message, so all chat messages show up with the gray indicator and you can't report anyone. Not sure if server admin can report anyone either because that might break context as well.
I'm not opposed to Moderation. I'm opposed to how Microsoft went about implimenting it. So, good on the community for exposing all the insecurities and ways the system can and will be abused.
We're in the endgame now... Microsoft is pridefully admitting they will keep this update in the game They may take away my worlds and player reputation But they will never take away my old worlds on Xbox 360 Our guardian has become our enemy
Remember when xbox used to be a place of toxicity and torment? That's gone too lol. Idk what's with Microsoft and their agenda but I guess saying the word "fuck" is enough to get you banned no matter the context. Not sure why they are going about this still but its really... unsettling
I am very opposed to moderation. If you run a server, you are paying to be the moderator and have control. The very idea of microsoft ruins the very idea of having your own server. It is not yours, it is MICROSOFTS, even if you are paying an outside company to run a server for you, it is STILL MICROSOFTS server
Today is a good day to raise some awareness. I like your objective approach to the topic. A lot of people don't really understand that it's not merely about free speech and owning your server, it's also about concrete issues that chat reporting system has, some of which are not possible to fix even in principle considering decentralized nature of Minecraft's server hosting. It's almost as if Mojang were hoping to get away with security by obscurity, which would never work for Java Edition. Overall - great video. Most certainly worth the wait.
I'm 25, I've used the internet for years, and I play on a private server with a few close friends. Even on that private server, I know there's a chance I'll see something offensive. I'm an adult, I understand what I'm potentially getting myself into every time I connect. I don't need big brother Mojang protecting me.
I'd like to say I appreciate the fact that you took time to script this and take it carefully. You've taken numerous sources and attempted to show both fact and opinion with it and attempted to make clear which is which when approaching this very controversial topic. I thank you for making us aware of the resources available to us to use the system as intended when needed, and how to force the system to "protect us from itself" in a respectful way. I have to agree with many of the opinionated sections of this, and I hope that this can help calm the playerbase, but also keep them safe. I will be using reportblock mods on any servers I choose to run, and will be using them clientside myself, based on my opinions regarding this controversy. Thanks, AntVenom, and I hope you and anyone reading this have a wonderful day.
Multiplayer Minecraft has always had chat moderation, this has always been done by server admins. Seeing Mojang act like every server is just a cesspool is another nail on the games coffin.
With the "this will protect the kids" statement, I have one thing to say. The chat reporting thing is trying to fix a non existing problem. Either people will play on public servers where there is lots of moderation by the mod(s), admin(s), or owner(s), or it will be a server like 2b2t where there is supposed to be no moderation and people are aware of what comes with it, or it is a private server for a group of frends, or maybe a school, etc. And there people will know each other and the will be less harassment, and if there is, they could get punished irl, or they can just leave the server. Note, you can also just turn off the chat... In my opinion, the chat reporting will harm kids more than it might protect them, because chat reporting can be used as a way of harassment, and people might feel scared from talking in chat WHICH IS WHAT DESTROYS DEMOCRACIES, BECAUSE BEING SCARED OF SPEAKING YOUR OPINION WILL MAKE LESS PEOPLE SPEAK UP IF THEY DON'T AGREE WITH SOMETHING, AND THEM DOING THIS IN A GAME COULD CHANGE HOW THEY ACT IRL.
Well the thing is that the typical arguments in favour of regulating social media just don't apply to Minecraft. On RUclips or Facebook, you can just randomly get recommended a Ben Shapiro video out of nowhere and after that you fall down a rabbit hole where you eventually become a member of Q-anon who murders his own family (that actually happened just recently by the way). But that just doesn't happen on Minecraft. Communities are very insular and what happens inside a community almost always stay there. Like, the toxicity of 2B2T, stays on 2B2T and doesn't leak over into Hypixel. And if there is toxicity on Hypixel, the server mods can handle it themselves just fine. There is no benefit to this kind of report system in a game like Minecraft. And really the only thing it's going to do is as you said, empower bully's with the ability to get anyone they targeting banned without any recourse.
I've seen people banned from their own realm for cursing in chat with friends, no reports made against any player. I can't even name a shulker box "diamond hoes" with the extras I have from trading with toolsmiths. Its the name of a tool already in game. This had gone WAY TOO FAR
The chat moderation is one of the worst decision microsoft made, but at least servers can enable the NoEncryption plugin completely disabling the chat moderation feature on that server (I really hope most popular servers will do this). Imagine if chat moderation was implemented in a way that only when both the client and the server are modded, the feature can be completely disabled, it would be the end of minecraft.
I think a better system would be for the report system to flag your account. You would be marked for the offense, and when it happened. Then individual servers can set up filters to not let certain marked accounts in. For example, if you don't want people who sent a certain type of message within the last 6 months.
I see this report system as unnecessary for a simple reason - Minecraft has a great community. Sometimes cringe, sometimes weird, but great. If you jumped on someone on a sever, five people would stand behind them and humble you or straight up ban you. Never have I had a problem with this.
@@ASM985 Did Mojang set up the server? No. Did Mojang pay to have it hosted? No. Did Mojang pay for the hardware its on? No. Mojang create the bare bones software for the server and the game. They didn't create the plugins, the mods, the server host programs, etc. As far as the actuall running of servers are concerned, Mojang barely does anything.
Ultimately I have seen this whole debacle as a failure in public relations. Mojang has put out statements that indirectly show they don't trust the communities ability to decide if chat reporting is a good thing. They made the statement of (taken from xisumavoids video): "Related, I wanted to bring up the topic of opting-in: I agree that in an ideal world we would've introduced this feature publicly as an opt-in initially before full implementation, but it was always going to something to be implemented on all servers in order for it to be effective. Unfortunately we're not going to go the initial opt-in route this time around, but that's because the team is confident that once we get it out there, people will see that it's not going to be disruptive like they're concerned about." It shows that they not only are considering it as of now, but they consider public opinion on the matter not to be worth openly addressing as far as I see it. Instead of addressing the points made by the public and having polite official discourse, a majority of the reasons for wanting to be able to opt-in are swept under the statement "it's good for you, you just don't realize it yet". Now, I think chat reporting can be a good thing, and if implemented correctly it would be a step forwards. Breaking community trust, and significant lack of communication is not that way. There have been statements promising more communication in the future, however, those statements feel like too little too late. If they truly wanted to improve communication between the userbase, they would take the time to address community concerns and build a better Minecraft when it was needed the most. I want to have a chat reporting system that keeps people safe, the listed reasons are certainly more than reasonable for general communities to be able to opt-in or even opt- out of. However, if the backbone of an update that is very concerned with privacy and user safety is "just trust us" when Mojang/Microsoft has shown little reason to trust them on this issue, and instead the community is left with total lack of communication, I take issue.
The whole situation is so frustrating. The system is so forced and just caused a split in the community and made people afraid to chat. Mojang completely ignoring public opinion, constant bending of the truth, and worse-and-worse updates has really killed the game for me (and a lot of others, as it seems). Everything recently has just seemed half-assed, from their updates to the chat reporting, to their explanations for the system. Personally I'm only going to be playing with no-chat-reporting and anti-snooper mods going forward. It's really sad to see such a great game fall so hard and so quickly.
I've lost all faith in Mojang, from mediocre updates to downright betraying my trust, all the love and care in their reputation they've built up is gone. They don't care for us now, being radio silent for nearly a month has proved that, its all about money and appeasing Microsoft. 1.20 and 1.21 is going to be more mediocre updates along with pointless bans. Now, while some people may say "Your being really pessimistic! Maybe they will get better!" Is there any reason to believe they wont throw us into a ditch again? If Minecraft Bedrock is any indication of the future, expect empty promises, adding random endangered animals that no one cares for to be "EnViOrMeNtAlLy AwArE", and more BS Mechanics that will never be useful for singleplayer (Im looking at you SwiftSneak). I'm extremally sad to feel nothing for Minecon 2022, and Mojang as a whole, I hope they are happy with their choice, because me, and many others arent
@@TechBlade9000 They aren't the same. The money benefits all employees at mojang and microsoft...... to some extent, and appeasing Microsoft wouldn't be about money. It's about control. It's the adding the useless endangered animals to get kids hyper focused on environmentalist activism through a passive propaganda machine. It inevitably leads to those kids not having kids, or hating their parents or everybody for driving a gas car. All to save the planet in a childish, unrealistic manner. Similar to what young politicians are doing.
Uhhhh I... isn't Swift Sneak for being able to move quickly while not alerting Wardens? Like they use sound to track the player don't they? Is that not the point? There's Wardens in singleplayer, neh?
I agree that Mojang broke trust but your take on the update is ass. It added plenty to the SP experience and Swift Sneak makes bridging a lot quicker which should help a ton when building things that take tons of placing of blocks. Plus it's valuable for sneaking past wardens
Not to mention Mojang allowing a pointless mob such as a retextured squid go up against miniboss mobs and letting them win. Mojang could have easily enriched the game, but doing anything beyond copying a mob and retexturing it would have been too much effort.
Ever since the chat reporting system, the "good enough" updates as well as the blatant removal of C418. It's safe to say Minecraft is no longer my favorite game. And it doesn't look like it's ever going to be again
I have to disagree on the C418 take. Microsoft wants to own the music they implement in their games. C418 refuses to give up ownership of the music he creates. "Blatant removal" would imply that C418's music was removed entirely from the game, which is not what is happening. Since they can't come to an agreement, Microsoft is using other producers to produce new music for the game, without doing anything to the old music that C418 made. This was the best possible outcome, given that historically producers who are in conflict with a mega-corporation often have their creations entirely removed.
@Galactic Ruler After rereading my statement I agree that the statement "blatant removal" is false. I simply feel as though with the coming updates C418 is becoming less and less prevalent. Alongside the notion that Microsoft has C418 available but has chosen not to as evident by their attempts at replicating his style in the newer pieces of music.
@@diegozuniga4201 I don't feel like they're trying to replicate his music style at all. Some of the newer stuff is way more complex and full than C418's mellow slow subdued tunes. Both are great for different reasons, it's a shame that C418 and Microsoft/Mojang couldn't come to an agreement, but that's just business. When he wrote the original tracks for Minecraft, it was still a small-time indie game. Now that it's owned but a large corporation, things need to be done differently, and if they can't get music from him, they'll just go to the next artist willing to do it. Honestly, I really like a lot of the newer stuff, Infinite Amethyst in particular might be my new favorite track in the game.
@@diegozuniga4201 Old Music = Better than New Music, muh nostalgia, new musicians trying to copy C418, waaaaah waaah waaaah That's you. That's what you sound like.
You r just aweso....i was litterly noob in tNice tutorials...u explained it very simply...thanks i will surely go for next parts of tNice tutorials video.. thanks
I've been saying this since the report feature came out: a 2B2T developer and hacker will eventually devise some program that can obtain the private cryptographic keys of other players, and use the keys to falsify entire conversations between two players who will never, ever see each other, and have them permanently banned. They will go on a power high, much like those other 2B2T hackers did when they perfected their program that obtained the IPs of every server in existence, private and public, and automatically checked every server for any kind of griefing or player access protections. And if they don't go on a power high, the program will inevitably get stolen by people who will. As long as this feature exists, the ENTIRE COMMUNITY is unprecedentedly vulnerable.
The worst part is the punishment. Reported on one (1) server, banned from ALL servers, even your friend's small private server with like 5 other people. You can't even open to LAN. Like come on, it's CHAT reporting. CHAT. You can't report in-game player actions (like cheating, griefing, inappropriate builds, etc). Only the chat. So why do you get banned from all servers instead of just muted on one? It's like dropping a nuke on someone because they stole a packet of gum from a gas station.
Because some people get offended by chat messages, its harder to be offended by griefing even if its annoying. Plus its very straightforward to moderate. Just one of the many, many reasons that banning should remain server side and decentralized, since server moderators can take care of _everything,_ apply community specific rules thoughtfully, speedily take care of issues, and of course the ban only applies to that server.
I'm a server owner. a roleplay server owner. topics and conversations that can and *will* happen violate most if not all rules. i moderate my server however the hell i want, and i want NOTHING to do with this new system. I will only EVER support it if the system is designed to report rule violations to US, as staff of the server. i want Mojang completely hands off. as it stands right now; i don't trust them, i don't support their rules, and i am against this system entirely. i'm not even considering updating to that version as a result of this, *especially* considering they blocked the usage of certain HTML fonts and characters which were utilized in our resourcepack, and they did this simply to prevent circumvention of the new system. I'm in support of any and all circumvention methods, as well as methods that break the system by abusing it. normally i'd be against it completely, but as long as it ruins the report system i'm glad. maybe it'll change their minds and they'll get rid of it. i doubt it, but it'll at least give them a headache as bad as the one they gave me. this whole thing is a pain in the ass. They just completely overlooked Roleplay servers, and i will NOT stand for this bs. Alcoholism, drug abuse, threats, harassment, suicide, impersonation, abuse, violence; these are all things that are part of roleplay, and these are all things that would get you banned simply by being in-character. i know Roleplay is a joke to some people (hell we even make fun of it ourselves at times, we're not all that serious) but it's important to us as it's a way to express ourselves. how the hell are we supposed to do that if the game we're using for it literally bans us for it?
You are absolutely right. Imagine roleplaying as characters from a very violent movie, or an online creative project like the SCP foundation. Those topics you mentioned could easily be incorporated into the RP while they would look horrible out of context.
You agreed to their rules when you first started the server You HAVE to abide to the rules even if you dislike it, Mojang reserves the right to revoke access to their software and your right to play the game (that is the EULA for you) You own the hardware, correct, nobody is arguing against that, but you DONT own the software, the software which is making the server work, Mojang has the right to change whatever they want on their software on your hardware, you want to host a server, don't you? Please don't tell me "ok but you fail to see ..." I've seen everything, this antvenom video will cause me to lose hundreds of braincells, just because people have a new reason to go against it I personally do not care about chat report, I rarely speak in servers, but I understand some people can think differently The reason I'm writing this essay is because I don't want any more people that think just because they paid for the game and paid for the hardware, they're entitled to modify and change the core game however they so please (note: modded minecraft does not change the core game directly). Additionally, I don't want people to be misinformed, I'm trying my best to be correct in nearly every statement I say that is not my/someone else's opinion
@@ImpaledBerry you don't talk often, so the matter doesn't concern you, you wouldn't understand. My server however is in hot water because, not only is it a server where talking happens frequently, but it's the main driving point. Additionally, owning something is exactly what entitles someone to change it, and paying for the game is paying for the software, it's not a "subscription" like steam does. Believe it or not, but you're completely allowed to modify anything that you yourself hold ownership of. Hell, even those products with warranty labels claiming you're not allowed to modify it without voiding the warranty have been proven false in court, and even illegal (an example source would be something like the article from popular mechanics, though it's not the original source I read it from. I actually had several, but this one is a quick google search). If it's not obvious, just because the EULA says something doesn't mean it's legal for them to put it. Even ignoring that fact, you're not making a good excuse for it. Just because they do something doesn't mean people should be forced to put up with it. I'll fight for my right to moderate MY WAY because I can and I need to. I've seen nobody else bring up the dangers this poses to roleplay servers, so someone needs to spread awareness. As I stated, roleplay servers such as mine dive into topics that are dark, and I refuse to allow my users to have their method of expression censored just because Mojang or Microsoft thinks it should be done on all servers. Our server is NOT for children. Children will inevitably get on our server, yes, but our server is not made for kids, and we will not cater to them just because parents can't keep their kids off the wrong places. Mojang might want to do that, but I refuse.
My biggest problem with the reporting system was definitely the timing of them removing over half of an update to shoe-horn the chat system instead. I play single player exclusively so I don't really care about the system itself, I'm more concerned with the fact that to me it feels like the messaging from Mojang is that despite the history of the community prettymuch making the game what it is, it's their game and if they want to mismanage and overpromise we just have to deal with it which is not how a community driven game should be prioritized.
@@dumigamez397 Wild Update was just Caves and Cliffs Part 3 bro, and still we don't have all the features, like its still missing the archeology, so be ready to another Caves and Cliffs update.
I wonder if there'd be a way to set up microservers/proxies where each player is seen as logging into their own "server" and chat messages are synchronized between servers as server messages instead of player messages.
What annoyed me the most is that you can't disable it on private servers where you play with your friends. If I'm hosting a private server for me and my friends to play on, then why can some corporation add censorship to the chat? Thankfully discord still doesn't filter their vc's and chats.
It's so nice seeing a content creator with a valid opinion because they did their research and understand the implications. I wish other RUclipsrs would do the same before dismissing the pissed off community's worries.
@@abirdpilguy3211 Java's redstone being a buggy mess? I've been playing Bedrock edition for years at this point, and I can not wrap my head around redstone. But Java's redstone makes so much more sense to me.
If you want to know how bad RenderDragon is on my PC -Having Twitch/YT Streams in the Background while in my main Survival World will cause stuttering even with everything at the lowest it can be at my Base (This does not happen with Sims 4, GMod or even Fall Guys even though my PC is at the "Minimum Specs" for 2 of those games) Also will check those videos out after the DART Approach
I hated this half made 1.19 update that instead of getting no chat reporting i am just playing 1.18.2 and fixing every little bug and bad feature with mods, i have around 200 mods and probable it took only 5 to 10 to fix the bugs the other 190 are just extra features. I don't even use chat that often in mc but i still hate the chat reporting, i will update my game till it is removed or fixed to be safer.
This would be so easy to fix. Just allow an opt-out feature to servers, and maybe add a pop-up for not protected servers and maybe Parental controls to block those from their kids.
@@jackdavenport5011 nah that's too much work for them based on their current performance. I'm pretty sure when your banned you just can't use the multi-player tab at all.
@@hellolol7288 maybe a Parental controls option that can block or unblock specific servers? Either that or an expansion of the option to allow servers to sign up for self moderation, which would also let it be unblocked.
I really do hope they improve the system. Since it ain’t getting removed, they could make it so they can make the community happier. I don’t want 2016 to happen all over again
The "investigators" are bots. Mojang has said they don't use bots to handle chat reporting, but they do. It's impossible that even a large team could sift through thousands of reports coming in constantly. There must be some AI that decides which chat messages contain content that's obviously bad enough to ban the player who said it, or whether the message should be sent to a human moderator for review. Mojang is lying to you.
I would imagine an AI system filters the reports, but I would also imagine humans are the ones to issue the bans. Otherwise they can't really say the system is run by people.
I read through the list, the harassment and bullying is very poorly defined. The worst thing on the list was Drugs and Alchohol, so many adults play minecraft for which alchohol is perfectly legal, and kids arent banned from speaking about alchohol, in many countries drugs like cannabis are the same. there are others among the list which can easily be misconstrued
In the Czech Republic they even teach children about alcohol and drugs at school. It's not something to report and censor, it's something to talk and teach about to prevent abuse
@@8xus_ actually no sadly. You may notice a lot of platforms have vague rules. RUclips's guidelines are notorious for being incredibly vague. This is done intentionally. Setting rules in stone means that only specific situations can be bannable. Many other situations can't be enforced. Also it allows wiggle room for platforms to completely deplatform someone if pressure is applied for above (e.g. law enforcement, payment processors) This is all done to be able to cover their ass. It also allows for blatant favoritism to exist; Twitch, for example, is incredibly notorious for this.
they can even hire bpo companies (company that works for another company) which are mostly situated in countries like india where you can get cheap and over pressured labour to moderate those chats, which would be disastrous.
I think it’s interesting that there is a report for self-harm and suicide. Like imagine you are hurting so much that you put it in chat and you get banned from what could be your only source of happiness..
it’s like if you saw someone posting slurs on twitter, and instead of reporting them to twitter to get them banned from twitter, you reported them to google to get them banned from chrome. EDIT: and, of course, "posting slurs" is far from the only bannable offense. "leaving early" is rather questionable, particularly in the context of Minecraft.
@@freerobux49 that's true. not all of the bannable offenses are so reasonable. the reason i focused on "posting slurs" is that, regardless of what the rules were, or who was judging them, i would still be opposed to mojang chat reporting on principle.
Bedrock Edition on Consoles in terms of stability, support, and performance is a lot worse in my opinion when compared to the original Console Editions developed from 4J.
Both were made in C++, according to the Minecraft Wiki, so a legacy console edition port should’ve been easy. However, each different version (Xbox 360/1, PS3/4/Vita, Switch, Wii U) was its own unique version, which would’ve made it harder to port. Still though, it was MUCH more stable. Bedrock is squeezing everything out of a phone, so we can’t even call it the “mobile friendly” port anymore.
this situation reminds me of when RUclips removed dislikes and when anyone In power messes up for that matter like people get mad for a bit the company/person either says they are or aren't going to change (doesn't really matter they don't change either way) and eventually people stop caring
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"It's for the kids!"
Online interactions are not rated by the ESRB. Parents should be monitoring their kids, not mojang.
Mojang wants to monitor the kids because they are MAPS
@@BuetifullPersun MAPS? just say pedophile
Uncalled-for, man... Spicy, but uncalled-for.
They're not seriously all MAPS.
@@BuetifullPersun I have to wonder what they would do if Mojang staff were mass-accused of being MAPs because of this monitoring system... 🤔
You forgot to mention why Minecraft doesn't need this kind of system. It's because Minecraft multiplayer is a decentralized network of servers. Each server has its own rules and administrators. Minecraft doesn't need a centralized moderation. Minecraft needs better moderation tools for server owners and administrators.
Exactly! This chat report system should have been added with an opt out option but also for the ability to have the reports go to the sever moderators. This way servers could decide who they want in control. Either no one, Mojang, themselves (the server mods/admins), or a hybrid of Mojang and themselves I guess.
Unfortunately, they legally have to comply with the laws of certain countries because free speech only exists in the US. Same for any international company involving games or social networking in general.
it only ever makes sense on bedrock
@@gaspoweredpick They don't have to. Just like browser vendors don't moderate the websites their users can visit.
@@gaspoweredpick is that so , no free speech outside a third world country ( check the wiki stats ) like the usa?
Mojang: *is incapable of investigating servers that break the eula*
Also mojang: *is incapable of moderating their in game store*
Also mojang: "we'll personally investigate every single report and won't make false calls, believe us"
Its microsoft not Mojang
@@AurisMochi no it’s mojang. Not everything that happens to Minecraft is on Microsoft. Mojang can do wrong, and they’ve done a lot of wrong in this situation
@@ninjafrog6966 agreed just looking at Mojangs track record and Microsoft’s other games it’s obvious this was Mojangs idea.
lets just say it was
60% microsoft
and
40% Mojang Blunder
@@Random_Person.-. yeah Mojangs track record is listening and takeing feedback while Microsoft’s track record is ruining things and N0T listening and takeing feedback
The part that angers me the most is the fact that for weeks they had the utter gall to say "we value your feedback" while subsequently ignoring the overwhelming flood of negative feedback going as far in some cases as to openly mock people about their negativity and down-voting the chat reporting posts 'into oblivion'. If they were at least honest about their intentions it would be a slightly different story. Instead we were lied to about any sort of 'value' they see in the community and near the end told to suck it up.
Then when the exploits came out they ran damage control on twitter saying they fixed all the issues. Given the state of the G named mod set by Gild and Ada, there is clearly a lot left to be desired. But we're supposed to just ignore that I guess. The cherry on top. leaks then came out showing that community personalities were basically on payroll to downplay the whole ordeal. Absolutely ludicrous.
Yeah it was a massive shitshow and it broke trust massively with a lot of the playerbase. Especially with the Content creator bit where they were already in the know. I'm glad someone like DocM77 was trying to be a voice of reason at least during it but even then he got shunned by some of the other CCs that were defending the system with their life.
Where can I find out more about these content creators on payroll to screw over the community?
Who were the content creators on payroll?
I mean there’s a difference between feedback and outright pestering a company, if you continually respond with backlash and keep bothering them, they will most likely never want to respond to you again.
@@anthonyhack1164 That is also feedback tho
Dont get me wrong directly harassing devs and making it a huge problem for them is not the way, but showing a clear dislike towards something developed from not just 1 but many people is enough feedback to say "Something is wrong and could be changed/improved"
Make no mistake, this update was not controversial. It was UNIVERSALLY HATED
Dovahkiin
And the way Hank talks about it (and how long he took to release this video) its almost like he can't be negative towards this "feature" for risk of prosecution/backlash from Microsoftcok
ALWAYS HATED
ALL THE TIME
Allay duplication, tho.
I don't hate it because I'm not effected, I don't have friends to play in multiplayer :,)
my main issue with this is that with most other games, the servers are hosted by the parent company, and therefore they have the right to regulate all the chat messages and whatever else on it. All Minecraft servers are hosted (or at least paid for) by members of the community and are not run by mojang. So it doesn't make any sense for mojang to have control over a server that isn't theirs to control. it should be up to the server owners what do with chat messages (and also their responsibility to deal with bad actors in those servers)
I agree; they should keep their noses out of our business and focus on moderating their own servers (realms).
Yeah I don't even understand why Antvenom tried to make that comparison to other games having chat reporting.
At the bare minimum this system should of only been forced onto servers Microsoft/Mojang host. Then they could maybe allow servers to opt in instead of forcing it onto everyone by default.
totaly agree , had they made a system : player makes report , serverowner get notified(or staff ) , they check if its again their server rules , if so -> send report , if not delete report . The idea of a chat report system is a good one but as you said they dont own the hardware , server rules should take priority over mojang rules. Example : Legal drinking age in my country is 14 , so a 14 year old could get banned on a server hosted in said country , while beeing from said country , which makes everthing he said "legal" , yet could still get banned. This system is flawed , they dont pay for the hardware nor request serverowners approval , therefore download nochatreport and they can shove this system where the sun dont shine.
It's their game, lol. Look at roblox, GTA, rust, they all have server hosting but still have a game-wide reporting system.
@@BlazingTide but it's not the same they own the game but the servers are not.
Roblox is the closest, as well look at what Microsoft did with beam / mixer which doesn't even exist now
When I was 18(over 30 now) I was let onto a server that was intended for 18+, it wasn't a hard rule, they were just weeding out anyone who might be to young for foul language and drug or political discussion, the server was very wholesome people got along great, even when they didn't like each other. The forum we ran out of, one day interjected it's unwarranted 3rd party moderation, which started a domino effect that killed our community. I never found anywhere I fit in like I did there. RIP Duncan Trussel Family Hour Minecraft server
@Tom Sawyer so over
ah well. move on.
My personal concern with it from the start is third party reports. Say you prank your friend and they jokingly insult you, however, someone else on the server sees their insult and decides to report it, despite it having no affect on them.
An example outside the game of this would be two friends bantering and a third child thinking they are bullying one another and reporting it to the teacher.
The difference between this happening outside vs in-game is that if a teacher was to act upon the report, they would speak with the friends, gathering context of the situation, recognise that this report has been a mistake (or potentially an intentional attack on someone by reporting them) and neither of the friends would be punished.
However, Mojang take the report at it's face value, the context that "person A was insulting person B", without talking to person A and person B to understand this isn't the case. Mojang are then punishing people for "harassment or bullying" because they don't have the context that this is bantering between friends (potentially following a prank), or that the third party not involved in the conversation reported them with the malicious intent to punish "person A was insulting me." despite having no actual involvement in the conversation outside witnessing it.
appeal the ban then, problem solved
@@i_love_games110 "appeal the ban then, problem solved" you know microsoft is dogshit at unbanning people in that situation.
@@i_love_games110 And people could possibly dispute Mojang in court if they allow appealing and something goes wrong, and mojang doesn't wanna deal with it, so they cant.
It's like if I saw two people arguing and just kinda guessed who was right
if two childrens banter could be mistaken for bullying, it *is* bullying. full stop.
"I'm going to burn down your house!"
What they meant: The house the player built in Minecraft.
How Mojang can interpret this: A real life terrorism threat.
I think we all see the problem.
It's the "in minecraft" reverse uno.
Mojang becoming the resurrected Turkish Empire who essentially made every civilians life hell?
"Im going to invent combustile lemons to burn your house down!"
mojang interpretation: house built ingame
meaning: real-live word terrorism using only words which always contain lemons.
"I'm going to burn down your house! DISCLAIMER: BY ALL MEANS ONLY THE PLAYER CREATED STRUCTURE ON THIS MINECRAFT SERVER AND BY NO MEANS ANY BUILDING IN REAL LIFE."
which is why the people going over the reports are specifically trained with minecraft in context
Reporting schlatt's bacon question for "psychological warfare" got me good.
I have not eaten a banana for a considerable amount of time
@@someguy9496 that sucks
@@someguy9496 tell you what, you can have one of mine
@@CuackTheDucks I hate bananas.
@@someguy9496 that's a shame
This is a slap in the face to all servers with moderators and the community in general. Especially since it’s so horribly insecure. Literally all they had to do was implement this system only on official Mojang sanctioned servers/realms, etc
Honestly, even just making it actually possible to truly opt out without MODs would have been something I'd take. It's being handled in a really no effort way on Mojang's part.
The worst part is that any kind of outcry they get from adding this feature will be ignored until it stops being talked about. This same problem has happened before. Resistance stops because it's not doing anything, not because we're suddenly ok with it or have "gotten used to change".
exactly. so why resist?
The biggest problems i have with the system, is that it bans you from ALL multiplayer content, even on private servers.
and even on pre- 1.19.1
@@creppersaurusrex2300 you just can be banned pre 1.19.1, but if you are banned goodbye!
You can be reported and abanned if you're playing 1.19 and upwards, if you're playing 1.18.2 or less, you can't be reported, and thus can't be banned while playing them, but if you're reported while playing 1.19+ and banned, you're now banned in every single version after 1.7 (iirc), lower versions should still work as they don't have the current authentication services implemented.
@@M0D776 well then, let me play 1.7, with, like, oak logs and cobblestone and squid
@@nikolaos6083 squid 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
I really think what mojang is attempting to do is a "one size fits all" and didn't think into the grey areas. They're really only seeing in black and white, and it's very invasive.
They're taking the easy route, basically
@@DarkDoughnutsVids yeah
They're doing what all other Microsoft games are doing. Banning people and policing what's said. All for people who can't figure out mute buttons. Catering to snowflakes that just can't move on without needing to strong arm companies into stealing a product from someone else.
Some of the people defending this feature really do give that impression. However, I still think clickbait RUclipsrs like ItzJhief spreading blatant misinformation were worse.
This is the same with windows, their idea is a "one size fits all" operating system, it does not work well at all
The reason why they don't add a reason you are banned is so you can't dispute it in court. It's still scummy and they should definitely be held accountable for it.
The whole thing is scummy, it goes against what minecraft stands for
and the whole Idea of Community owned servers. if Minecraft starts enforcing rules on privately owned servers then are they really privately owned?
@@amateurishauthor2202 Ikr, just because they make a server pack doesn’t mean that they can through my server folders
nope. game companies reserve the right to ban you from minecraft for any reason they deem fit. you accepted the license when you play the game. you accepted the fact that they can revoke it for no reason whatsoever, and you have no choice but to accept it.
@matthewbarabas3052 actually because I bought it in alpha they accepted my license to not do that. They also owed me a free copy of bedrock.
as a linux user i miss the days of notch talking about open sourcing minecraft. a vid on the quasi-openess of the minecraft code which allowed modding to flourish would be interesting
He should have done it
It's about time. This system has so many flaws that have been ignored time and time again. You are a hero to the community.
Only thing we can do is to spread no chat report style mods/plugins. We need to show Mojang that we hate it. Let that snooper of theirs be usefull.
100% agree
i feel like i have seen you before
I think we all agree to that
@@alidonis5020 I know the mc live? Bomb em! Kill ‘em! We want fair MC! I hope there ain’t a Microsoft hq near me, for their sake
I feel like if a server is in Whitelist mode, the chat reporting should be automatically disabled. Whitelisting should already take people's behavior into account, or at the very least, the server admins have accepted the responsibility themselves.
Good idea
Counterargument: players have no idea that a whitelist is enabled, how many and who are in it. If that's what all it took to disable the system, I'd expect plugins that implement their own whitelist system and just automatically add any new players to the vanilla whitelist system as they join 😅
@@MadisOtenurm but for a whitelisted server they have to give their username to someone who has access to the server's internal config files. There's no way they wouldn't know about the whitelist.
@@Immerayon While I haven't made any plugins, I would expect a plugin to just be able to automatically add that player once they attempt to connect, by intercepting the connecting packet.
@@MadisOtenurm then what would be the point of a whitelist at all. The whole point of a whitelist is to only allow people on a list to join a server. Typically this is done between friends playing together. Adding people to that list automatically would defeat the purpose of a whitelist.
Keep an eye out for future Minecraft updates, which remove the "enforce-secure-profile" tag (treating it as always true) and new Mojang policies which allow reporting and enforcement even on unverifiable messages.
Unverifiable means they don't even know if you said it
My main issue is this: So, Mojang has seen that their report system is failing due to mods, and then they say that mods are going to be replaced with the marketplace, just like in bedrock and come up with some lousy exuse of why they did it, eg. mods take to much time to make
have you ever heard of microsoft's 3 E's?
Embrace, Extend And Extinguish.
now ask yourself, what part of those 3 E's are we supposed to be in right now?
The community is what made this game rise, they will sure as hell bring it down.
And that’s a promise
A very real promise
That's a little harsh... but keeping Mojang honest? Yeah, we sure as hell can (try to) do that.
@@AntVenom minecraft is nothing without players, if they want to silence us they wont have anything left.
@@mr_indie_fan Yup, we have to get aggressive.. We have been complying for far too long, and without change from Mojang. Now, we need to speak with what hurt most, Money and Popularity. Start using mc less and less, tarnish the game's reputation by stating these problems.
Mojang says concept art isnt a promised feature right? Don't worry, Us supporting the game continuing on isnt as well.
"If there is too much power, then it is the responsibility of the people to take it away."
I think that another reason this had so much backslash was because of what the Wild Update was, being a flop and how they didn't add promised features and then they added the chat reporting. Bad timing
That makes a lot of sense.
YES! I was about to comment the same thing! The chat reporting was just the icing on the shit cake that was the Wild Update and Mojang's many broken promises over the past few years. They couldn't have picked a worse time to release something as serious as the chat reporting feature.
Yeah, if they implemented the chat reporting on a really good update. Then many people wouldn’t even complain and give normal feedback on the chat report rather than hysteria and the chat reporting being controversial
@@AntVenom potentially extreme, but are you considering switching to another game soon
Not to mention the fact they also later retroactively edited-out the "promised features" from concept art when using it in videos. Why would they need to go back and edit the fireflies and birch forests out of concept art? It would be less work to just leave it as is.
Mojang definitely has their priorities mixed up.
I wish the Guardian exploit was called Gatekeep that way we could have a full set of gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss.
LOL IKR
There actually was a Gatekeep exploit too but it was patched with 1.19.2. You could kick every player on the server if you let your key expire then sent a message.
Even if this system was entirely safe from any exploit ever, it’d still be unforgivable to be subjected to it. What happens when mojang and a significant portion of the community disagree about whether something should be ban worthy, or when the community itself is divided in opinions over what should and shouldn’t be allowed? Inevitably, conflict happens.
There’s a reason the java multiplayer scene has been so decentralized all this time. Forcing moderation to become so is the antithesis of how the community operates. As long as this system remains as is, minecraft simply will not be in good shape.
If mojang insists on keeping this abomination and wants the community to not be up in arms, then at a bare minimum:
Servers must have an option to disable the whole thing without the use of mods,
Players must have the game inform them of whether or not a server has reports enabled before joining, and
If a player owns thier own server, they must be allowed to bypass global bans to join it.
But after how badly mojang has run things since 1.9, I’m not getting my hopes up. Hytale can’t come soon enough…
Bold of you to assume Hytale will be some decentralized utopia. Like, my guy, have you seen Hypixel? Not exactly a bastion of freedom.
@@rushi5638 it will probably be similar for sure. All these companies are evil and want to spy on users
@@rushi5638 Bold of you to assume Hytale will come out. It's release date coincides with Geometry Dash 2.2 and Star Citizen.
With Minecraft Java being such a community driven game, i am shocked by the fact of how much Mojang didnt listen to what is quiet possibly the biggest uproar since the combat update.
even the combat update didn't go this bad, people were split
here it's 99% of the community vs mojang
It's not that their not listening persay, just that they are taking to long to respond.
Honestly I didn't mind the combat update. It fundamentally changed the game and fractured the community but objectively the features were alright, I loved the implementation of Elytra, and much of the backlash was just dislike of change. This... this is different. The only people supporting this are the folks who constantly whine about "the children" even though they probably haven't even joined a server and its not Mojang's job to babysit kids. Everybody understandably despises this, as it goes against the core philosophy of a player driven game.
@@man-ce5iv, no you don't seem to understand at all, they don't listen to us and instead continue this horrendous bullshit. It's honestly ridiculous.
@@StuffandThings_ Mojang has been heading in this direction for quite a while with their environmentalist propaganda and recently the account migration.
They simply NEED to tell people when they ban them WHY they banned them. You paid for the product you need to be told how you broke the TOS. This is a recurring problem in ALL live services. There needs to be more legislation demanding companies give this information to the affected parties.
Any product that bars you from using it without an explanation deserves a full refund no matter when you bought it
Sadly you must look deeper into things that you pay for/sign.. In most cases, you can be banned for or without a reason and there's most likely a section in the TOS. I myself include that in any rules I make because there's always ways to exploit a rule since rules seem to be made to break. Again yes you did pay for it, I'd really look into all of the things you do because most corporations have the right to ban for no reason or a reason with or without your acknowledgement.
@@Mr_Maskins That's precisely why there needs to be better international legislation to protect the consumer. I get that there are TOS for every service but right now they can change said TOS whenever and however they want with no repercussion whatsoever. When I bought this game the TOS were very different. Legislation should exist to protect me as a consumer against this.
Its also frustrating that they've managed to sneakily change the TOS on us. It used to just be essentially "you bought the game, you own it now congrats" but they've added in so many more clauses such that now you're _technically_ subject to all sorts of rules. TOS's as a whole are such a broken, scummy thing that it amazes me nothing more has been done.
I have a bad feeling that the ambiguous reasons why people are banned (not just from Minecraft, but basically anything online, like social media, etc) is because the admins secretly rely on the chilling effect to keep the plebs afraid, so nobody pushes boundaries. It also squashes dissent and open discussion though, but this is just collateral damage in the name of the bottom line.
I loved this video. Especially all the little details. The reference to Schlatt's iconic "Unlimited bacon, but no games, or games, unlimited games, but no games" and LEMMiNO's music at the end. They really just gave the video a nice feel, especially the music you chose. Great video as always, Ant!
Only thing is I think most of us demanding it be removed just feel that this is a breach of our privacy, especially since they turned the snooper back on permanently. And that the response we’ve been getting has been that they aren’t hearing us and that they still believe that this is a game for only children. Many adults play this game and the proof is the multitude of servers that have their own moderator teams and rules proving that we can moderate them on our own just fine, and it just feels disrespectful to not make an effort to acknowledge them. Even if this gets shoved down our throats moderator teams should have chat reports from their server come to them first to deal with these events according to the rules of the server and with serious cases being forwarded to Mojang for record and for heavier punishments.
My perspective on this is that parents expecting the internet to keep their child safe and blaming the corporations for the user’s behavior is making it go to dudu.
Actually it’s the government. Basically all companies have their value partially determined by ESG (which is propped up by the government) so in order to get the value for Microsoft they deserve they have to include things like censorship
@@marcar9marcar972 💯 governments and corporations are the issue, parents are just a tool
Parents not being parents mad that someone’s not parenting for them
@@marcar9marcar972 yeah but its the parents whining to the government to make them do this
Larry Fink and company are the problem. They need to be removed from power.
the way ant repeatedly said the word "fun" at the end is the most absolutely passive aggressive i have ever seen someone get
The most hurtful part of this video is that mojang will probably never watch it or react to it in any way...
True
sadly its Microsoft's fault. mojang didn't want to add this update but was forced to by microsoft.
@@n1ghtscap376 I heard that the reason they bought minecraft is so that they can take so much data from the people playing the game.
Basically, microsoft is like china
There are likely plenty of Mojang employees that are just as upset about this change as the community. The hurtful part comes in when they’ll get fired for speaking out about it.
@@n1ghtscap376 oh good, mojang may not have the capability to monitor the chat, but microsoft does.
Every server has their own rules in accordance with the EULA. Don't comply with those rules? You get banned.
This system has worked since SMP became available during Alpha in 2010. We never asked for nor needed this easily exploitable global reporting system. It is completely baffling why Mojang is doing this. They even doubled down by deleting complaints on their official feedback page and ignoring reddit discussions. They worked hard to gain back the community's trust with 1.13 and onwards, and they just threw it away.
I would like to point out that if they did work hard to get back the community’s trust during 1.13, then why was the Phantom implemented so poorly? It seems like the dev who made the Phantom only spent a day doing it.
It's a social control measure.
@@HungryWarden I do agree, however that doesn't detract from the multitude of other additions in 1.13 and most later updates. Up until that point, the game suffered from mediocre updates for years, often with long wait times. It really was a nice change of pace, and unfortunately Mojang has fallen back into these weak updates since the caves and cliffs update delays
Sometime after this controversial update, Mojang on the Minecraft subreddit doubled down and said they wouldn't remove the chat report system. The downvotes that statement got at the time were crazy, I haven't seen something like it since the legendary "Sense of pride and accomplishment" comment in Battlefront 2's Subreddit in 2017...
When EA made that comment, it gave me a reason to never want to play Battlefront 2 in my life (not that I wanted to because I'm not interested in those games). If Mojang is gonna start to act like EA in that sense, I will never play any version past 1.19 until the day I die. In my brain, I do not see 1.19.1 or 1.19.2 as canon to Minecraft at all.
@@Xalaputan I've never played minecraft while I'm chilling in roblox. Game's bad but nowhere as bad as minecraft right now.
@@Xalaputan I still haven’t paid for Minecraft and I don’t think I ever will.
Wanted to update saying that I just realized there is a NoChatReports mod that you can install on Curseforge if you still want to play on 1.19.1+. Because of that, I might play those versions with that mod unless/until Mojang bypasses the mod. Just wanted to mention this in case anyone thought I was overreacting.
@@rudyranger249 Is Minecraft's new versions seriously that bad? Roblox has had bad censorship and moderation for as long as I can remember. The chat filter filters out all long number strings just because there's a chance it's a phone number whilst there is still gore, terrorist flags and sexual images being uploaded as decals all the time. Reporting on Roblox is also terrible because it almost always leads to nothing until the day they yet again break their automated bots and get 1000s of accounts banned for no reason.
I've generally thought of Roblox's moderation as almost completely backwards. Although it's not the case now, for years the words gay, lesbian and bisexual used to be hashtagged by the filter and you could get banned for even just saying them without anybody responding to it. It literally took them years to realize that banning those words looked worse than having a bunch of kids spamming it as an insult at each other.
Also Minecraft will never be at the level where they block songs from being played on noteblocks because of copyright like Roblox did with ingame boomboxes. I get that Roblox was under pressure but they literally force-privated all audios and now you have to get manual approval from a game's creator in order for a song to work in their game, and that's assuming the automated bot doesn't remove it for copyright beforehand. They completely destroyed a huge part of the community doing that, it was so stupid.
Mojang as of late has had a huge communication problem. Historically it's been hard to provide feedback outside of Twitter and Reddit, but even now that they have dedicated channels available for feedback it becomes radio silence. They go back on their promises and erase evidence, they say things that the community knows isn't true, they hide features from the average user... This whole chat reporting situation and how they handled it is the culmination of all of these issues. I don't think Microsoft is entirely to blame considering that multiple Mojang devs have outright stated that they wanted to do this and it was without pressure from higher up. It's just weird and a shame that a game that prides itself on its cultural influence and community is starting to put up a front.
I'd really like to learn what went through the heads of some of the devs that wanted such an unnecessary system in the first place. Forget the flaws as they came to be, just the idea of doing what Roblox is mocked for, but with complete online banning... on top of minecraft not needing such a feature for a decade, but now it's just a great time to implement it???
This just stinks of either a fish out of water situation or investors pushing for something they think will boost PR... idk, just fishy af
@@lukeeatschips6324 > what went through the heads of some of the devs that wanted such an unnecessary system in the first place.
You are looking at the wrong people. Look at Twitter users, PR department and their interactions. (ah you said it at the end) This is what happens when the mainstream hits a space (the virtual space), where its first users praised it for being a ruleless platform giving way to creativity.
The mainstream masses diluted the early adopters and then dictated their own rules. And of course, the governments weren't gonna allow a lawless space to exist. Doesn't matter that it wasn't theirs at any point but created by private telecommunication companies.
Well when they found out a developer wasn’t a nazi they decided to try and kill everyone and their families, so I guess they’re done with this community
@Kolonya Roblox chat is almost unusable lol
Minecraft may have continued growing (some may even say exponentially so), but ever since its acquisition by Microcock, it has devolved into a mere husk of what it used to be. The pizzazz and sense of community that used to be associated with it back in its heyday is but a glimmer of the raging fire it used to be.
Switch all servers to “offline” and implement a login system like other servers have. Could spice it up with 2FA by default to the registered email so insecure “password” passwords won’t cause account theft.
Huh
The reason this feels all so weird on Java Edition is considering that a majority of these servers are privately run and owned, as opposed to say Twitter where you are simply commenting under an account running on their platform/their servers. Its weird that I can be banned on my own server by some random who joined because of "harassment" (extremely vague and subjective). Additionally, its annoying that certain topics like alcohol/drugs and "intimate imagery" are banned even if the server is advertised as 18+. Also drawing the line between "hate speech" and politics I guarantee you will be problematic.
I had a feeling a video from you about chat reporting was in the works. It was certainly worth the wait. Extremely informative and concise.
hi sal, love your videos
happy to see you comment on this! I feel the exact same way.
Sal,now its your turn to make a vid about chat reporting XD
based sal
I bet if Antvenom made a video on how he liked tye PCRF SalC1 wouldve kept quite, before u say its an assumption the PCRF controversy is made entirely on assumption
Of course it is it’s AntVenom!
I have a plugin installed on my server that breaks chat reporting. Its my responsibility as server owner to protect my players accounts, even if it's protecting them from mojang itself.
Mojang lying about gaslight "not working" are a big part of why I have 0 trust in them or any of the devs anymore.
honestly, id go one step further and ban anyone who breaks the chat reporting system, claiming it goes aganst the ToS.
@@matthewbarabas3052 Then mojang will find their IP in a very swift decline.
They really should've called "Guardian" "Gatekeep", for the ultimate exploit trifecta
Finally, redstone telegraphs might become useful (you can't report lever flips/button presses, can you?)
For short-range communication, you can use signs/writable books, but that might change if they decide to implement sign/book reporting...
The issue with Microsoft's "Minecraft Investigators" team is that a profit-motivated company will never spend more than the bare minimum on tech support systems like this. It's obvious that MC Investigators will be an underpaid and understaffed team, likely contractors, who won't have the resources to accomplish anything of value even in the cases where they could do something good. Like most call-center style teams, they'll probably be paid/rated by how many reports they process, which incentivises quick reviews and swift judgements. They will not look deeply into matters, they will not spend lots of time deliberating over the context of any given situation. They'll look at the chat logs for 30 seconds and press a button.
And that's just the humans. As we've seen with social media reporting systems, most reports are handled exclusively by AI, which are notoriously terrible at understanding context. People's accounts will be at the mercy of an unfeeling, unthinking algorithm. An algorithm that will take everything literally, obey the letter of the law rather than the spirit, and will never consider appeals.
RUclips in a nutshell, basically.
it's not even actually based on what the report is, just the volume of reports on you
ALWAYS obey the letter of the law!
That's also not accounting for human-error in reporting either by those making the report or by those evaluating the report.
Humans aren't always the best judges, but we have to make do. Especially when it can be sometimes complex matters that go a lot deeper than just "did you say this thing or did you not", such as matters about intent, context, weight-of-damage, and likelihood of repeat offense.
@@craigkuhlman6869 Ban appeals are a thing, so another mod will look at your ban again, reducing chance of human error since it needs to happen twice
This system is literally the system that made it where I no longer wanted to play multiplayer, and only play singleplayer on LAN with my friends. Thank you for covering this, as Mojang needs to hear.
multiplayer on any server pre 1.19.1 doesn't have it. any server can disable it.
I regret to inform you that you can be banned from joining lan. But they can't take hosting privileges away
@@dudeofdudovia Yeah, he talked about that and that completely slipped my mind. I swear Mojang has fallen hard. That, combined with blockchain technology and the hypocrisy of not doing NFTs around the same time is painful. I hate NFTs and the blockchain just to clarify, but that's just a painful thing to see in terms of how much I love this game.
@@KwikBR
Pre 1.19. Version 1.19 has signatures
I don’t play any version later than 1.19
What I think will happen is that some popular Multiplayer optimizer mods will add a system to the mod that changes all the messages into /TELL command messages
thus the message gets filtered by the server, and trough /tell posted in chat.
This way every comment/message is trough /tell and it is impossible to verify if said user actually said it, because the verify checkmark is gone
I feel like people are going to have to start adding "in minecraft" to their toothless threats.. in minecraft
What puts the nail in the coffin for me is lifetime bans. I hate every single aspect of this system, but the thought of losing multiplayer on my account _forever_ is something else entirely. I'd at least barely tolerate this system if bans were limited to 30 days *whatever* the situation may be, and that's still pushing it.
I just don't understand why it's even a ban and not a mute! sure, if a player consistently harasses others I'm all for perma mute (after multiple strikes), but banning multiplayer altogether? can't even play with friends on discord? it's CHAT reporting, not GAME reporting, it's so backwards
@@thisisbeagle2605 Maybe because it's really easy for them? idk. In the current configuration, they just have to tell their servers not to authenticate certain players to effectively ban them. Muting players would require additional work and might be more easily circumventable if the player has a mod and the server doesn't want to comply with Mojang. But again, having code that doesn't work very well hasn't stopped them from going this far.
@@thisisbeagle2605
Cross server mutes are impossible in the way chat is handled (I think, I don't know, I heard this from someone else)
Especially when there are people who have had their accounts since the beginning. I would be pissed if I lost my 2012 account, I can't imagine losing a 2010 account.
@@ImpaledBerry if they went all the way to implement blockchain technology to "secure" chat messages and can even get extra messages for "extra context", they can definitely change how chat works to make Cross Server mutes a thing, we've already gotten some changes over the years so it's definitely doable.
Just disabling chat on muted users with a "You've been muted for unpleasant behavior" message would be enough in the client side, while on the server side you could tag the player's account on the authentication system as "muted", so when they connect to a server and your account is authenticated, even if you get a mod to re-enable chat when muted, when you send messages, the server can just ignore anything relating to chat that is sent by the muted player, so your messages could just straight up just not even arrive to the server.
Microsoft using the "it's for the children" card. I don't think a trillion dollar company is suppose to look after someone's kid.
They can’t have kids, so they want yours…
It's for a children is such BS lmao, A majority of the Java community is mostly adults, whereas Bedrock edition is mostly younger kids, Java did not need this system at all. And considering Java servers have been self-moderating themselves ever since Multiplayer first came out, so this whole chat reporting system is just a waste of time.
@TheWaffleGamer1. The less plugins tge easier since then ther is no need to constantly update them with the server
You have your finger on the pulse right there.
@@FrozenDragon0630 the only on bedrock is further fine with me since there's literally like 8 servers and they're all technically working with Microsoft.
Doesn't at all excuse the Singleplayer chat and sign censoring, though.
is the music at the end there, lemmino music? ayo i love that guy's content aswell. Didn't expect it, but its a pleasant surprise.
That and the render dragon also completely breaks custom skyboxes (and the sun as well) and removes shader support on mobile devices that don't support RTX.
I've been shadow-muted for a good two years, and I've tried everything, but I can't determine why I'm shadow-muted. Its me and another one of my friends, so this is frustrating. I can't even chat with them as we can't see each other's messages. Seeing Ant take a response on this is calming.
Is that on Java? Because this feature has only been released for like a month
@@Whomsky they've had this feature on bedrock for a while now i think
@@Whomsky It is Bedrock, shadow mutes dont exist on Vanilla Java.
nope. the system only existed for a few months
shadow mutes are bullshit
They messed up big time by not letting this be an "opt-in" feature. Let server owners decide themselves if they want the reporting feature or to go without and have their own rules.
Yeah, I think this would have been an ideal solution
I had actually brought that point up to Jappa in a tweet he made a while ago. From what another twitter user told me, if server owners were given the ability to opt out, that would basically just make the entire feature pointless. I think Mojang already knew this in advance which is why it was never included as an option. That's just my own speculation though.
@@mayravixx25 that’s exactly why they did it. They want to force this on everyone. Part of this is due to the government because if they don’t do this basically it makes their company worth less money
It cannot be opt in by law. It's called ESG laws. Regulates companies so that they are held accountable for what their customers say and do. Y'all voted for these types of laws either directly or indirectly.
@@kimkimpa5150 Said as if the world is ran by one country or that one country's laws should apply to everyone.
Companies/ creators shouldn't be held accountable for their consumers actions in the first place.
Apparently most servers already use a system that consume the chat message, and outputs a status message, so all chat messages show up with the gray indicator and you can't report anyone. Not sure if server admin can report anyone either because that might break context as well.
I'm mildly perturbed that Guardian isn't called Gatekeep
I'm not opposed to Moderation. I'm opposed to how Microsoft went about implimenting it.
So, good on the community for exposing all the insecurities and ways the system can and will be abused.
We're in the endgame now... Microsoft is pridefully admitting they will keep this update in the game
They may take away my worlds and player reputation
But they will never take away my old worlds on Xbox 360
Our guardian has become our enemy
Remember when xbox used to be a place of toxicity and torment? That's gone too lol. Idk what's with Microsoft and their agenda but I guess saying the word "fuck" is enough to get you banned no matter the context. Not sure why they are going about this still but its really... unsettling
I’m opposed to moderation beyond server owners. I’ll choose who I want on my server and who I don’t thank you
I am very opposed to moderation. If you run a server, you are paying to be the moderator and have control. The very idea of microsoft ruins the very idea of having your own server. It is not yours, it is MICROSOFTS, even if you are paying an outside company to run a server for you, it is STILL MICROSOFTS server
@@slimebuck exactly, I stopped playing multiplayer period as soon as the update went through, I won’t be diddled by Microsoft.
Today is a good day to raise some awareness.
I like your objective approach to the topic. A lot of people don't really understand that it's not merely about free speech and owning your server, it's also about concrete issues that chat reporting system has, some of which are not possible to fix even in principle considering decentralized nature of Minecraft's server hosting. It's almost as if Mojang were hoping to get away with security by obscurity, which would never work for Java Edition.
Overall - great video. Most certainly worth the wait.
got it
Found ya!
Found it !
found it too
Challenge complete 👍
I'm 25, I've used the internet for years, and I play on a private server with a few close friends. Even on that private server, I know there's a chance I'll see something offensive. I'm an adult, I understand what I'm potentially getting myself into every time I connect. I don't need big brother Mojang protecting me.
@Princess Cadance so true, did you start playing in '11?
I'd like to say I appreciate the fact that you took time to script this and take it carefully. You've taken numerous sources and attempted to show both fact and opinion with it and attempted to make clear which is which when approaching this very controversial topic. I thank you for making us aware of the resources available to us to use the system as intended when needed, and how to force the system to "protect us from itself" in a respectful way. I have to agree with many of the opinionated sections of this, and I hope that this can help calm the playerbase, but also keep them safe.
I will be using reportblock mods on any servers I choose to run, and will be using them clientside myself, based on my opinions regarding this controversy.
Thanks, AntVenom, and I hope you and anyone reading this have a wonderful day.
Multiplayer Minecraft has always had chat moderation, this has always been done by server admins. Seeing Mojang act like every server is just a cesspool is another nail on the games coffin.
"Mojang was almost sold out to EA in 2014, who knows where we would be if that happened?"
*Please pay $14.99 to contiune this meme*
no i think ill pirate it
That moment even Notch commented on this and was pretty much saying this is messed up is saying something.
I hate that you have to use mods to play minecraft without the fear of being banned for nothing.
Mojang essentially killed vanilla for good.
With the "this will protect the kids" statement, I have one thing to say. The chat reporting thing is trying to fix a non existing problem. Either people will play on public servers where there is lots of moderation by the mod(s), admin(s), or owner(s), or it will be a server like 2b2t where there is supposed to be no moderation and people are aware of what comes with it, or it is a private server for a group of frends, or maybe a school, etc. And there people will know each other and the will be less harassment, and if there is, they could get punished irl, or they can just leave the server. Note, you can also just turn off the chat... In my opinion, the chat reporting will harm kids more than it might protect them, because chat reporting can be used as a way of harassment, and people might feel scared from talking in chat WHICH IS WHAT DESTROYS DEMOCRACIES, BECAUSE BEING SCARED OF SPEAKING YOUR OPINION WILL MAKE LESS PEOPLE SPEAK UP IF THEY DON'T AGREE WITH SOMETHING, AND THEM DOING THIS IN A GAME COULD CHANGE HOW THEY ACT IRL.
also, what if a kid gets banned for reporting everyone that says anything negative about him, even if it's true for "abusing the report system"
Maybe they should ask for an age when reporting someone, under 9 wont be trusted as much
@@8xus_ that would be rediculus, everyone would lie about their age.
you could use the age assigned to the microsoft account though
@@dudeofdudovia nah everyone's 18 or higher in microsoft's eyes lmao
Well the thing is that the typical arguments in favour of regulating social media just don't apply to Minecraft. On RUclips or Facebook, you can just randomly get recommended a Ben Shapiro video out of nowhere and after that you fall down a rabbit hole where you eventually become a member of Q-anon who murders his own family (that actually happened just recently by the way).
But that just doesn't happen on Minecraft. Communities are very insular and what happens inside a community almost always stay there. Like, the toxicity of 2B2T, stays on 2B2T and doesn't leak over into Hypixel. And if there is toxicity on Hypixel, the server mods can handle it themselves just fine.
There is no benefit to this kind of report system in a game like Minecraft. And really the only thing it's going to do is as you said, empower bully's with the ability to get anyone they targeting banned without any recourse.
I've seen people banned from their own realm for cursing in chat with friends, no reports made against any player.
I can't even name a shulker box "diamond hoes" with the extras I have from trading with toolsmiths. Its the name of a tool already in game.
This had gone WAY TOO FAR
That happened to me lmao it's such bs
@@espiogirl are you the person who made that reddit post that blew up yesterday?
Evidence?
@@dumigamez397 evidence for what? Just look at different social media, the complaints are all over the place
@@rhombo323 None of them provide evidence though.
The chat moderation is one of the worst decision microsoft made, but at least servers can enable the NoEncryption plugin completely disabling the chat moderation feature on that server (I really hope most popular servers will do this). Imagine if chat moderation was implemented in a way that only when both the client and the server are modded, the feature can be completely disabled, it would be the end of minecraft.
I think a better system would be for the report system to flag your account. You would be marked for the offense, and when it happened. Then individual servers can set up filters to not let certain marked accounts in. For example, if you don't want people who sent a certain type of message within the last 6 months.
I see this report system as unnecessary for a simple reason - Minecraft has a great community. Sometimes cringe, sometimes weird, but great. If you jumped on someone on a sever, five people would stand behind them and humble you or straight up ban you. Never have I had a problem with this.
Server moderation, including it's chat, should be done by the server's moderators or plugins they choose to use, not Mojang.
@@ASM985 Did Mojang set up the server? No. Did Mojang pay to have it hosted? No. Did Mojang pay for the hardware its on? No. Mojang create the bare bones software for the server and the game. They didn't create the plugins, the mods, the server host programs, etc. As far as the actuall running of servers are concerned, Mojang barely does anything.
Ultimately I have seen this whole debacle as a failure in public relations. Mojang has put out statements that indirectly show they don't trust the communities ability to decide if chat reporting is a good thing.
They made the statement of (taken from xisumavoids video):
"Related, I wanted to bring up the topic of opting-in: I agree that in an ideal world we would've introduced this feature publicly as an opt-in initially before full implementation, but it was always going to something to be implemented on all servers in order for it to be effective. Unfortunately we're not going to go the initial opt-in route this time around, but that's because the team is confident that once we get it out there, people will see that it's not going to be disruptive like they're concerned about."
It shows that they not only are considering it as of now, but they consider public opinion on the matter not to be worth openly addressing as far as I see it. Instead of addressing the points made by the public and having polite official discourse, a majority of the reasons for wanting to be able to opt-in are swept under the statement "it's good for you, you just don't realize it yet". Now, I think chat reporting can be a good thing, and if implemented correctly it would be a step forwards. Breaking community trust, and significant lack of communication is not that way.
There have been statements promising more communication in the future, however, those statements feel like too little too late. If they truly wanted to improve communication between the userbase, they would take the time to address community concerns and build a better Minecraft when it was needed the most.
I want to have a chat reporting system that keeps people safe, the listed reasons are certainly more than reasonable for general communities to be able to opt-in or even opt- out of. However, if the backbone of an update that is very concerned with privacy and user safety is "just trust us" when Mojang/Microsoft has shown little reason to trust them on this issue, and instead the community is left with total lack of communication, I take issue.
Hey an actually reasonable comment!
The whole situation is so frustrating. The system is so forced and just caused a split in the community and made people afraid to chat. Mojang completely ignoring public opinion, constant bending of the truth, and worse-and-worse updates has really killed the game for me (and a lot of others, as it seems). Everything recently has just seemed half-assed, from their updates to the chat reporting, to their explanations for the system.
Personally I'm only going to be playing with no-chat-reporting and anti-snooper mods going forward. It's really sad to see such a great game fall so hard and so quickly.
Man, all I've got to say, Good use of Lemmino Music at the end, damn
I've lost all faith in Mojang, from mediocre updates to downright betraying my trust, all the love and care in their reputation they've built up is gone. They don't care for us now, being radio silent for nearly a month has proved that, its all about money and appeasing Microsoft. 1.20 and 1.21 is going to be more mediocre updates along with pointless bans. Now, while some people may say "Your being really pessimistic! Maybe they will get better!" Is there any reason to believe they wont throw us into a ditch again? If Minecraft Bedrock is any indication of the future, expect empty promises, adding random endangered animals that no one cares for to be "EnViOrMeNtAlLy AwArE", and more BS Mechanics that will never be useful for singleplayer (Im looking at you SwiftSneak). I'm extremally sad to feel nothing for Minecon 2022, and Mojang as a whole, I hope they are happy with their choice, because me, and many others arent
"Money and appeasing Microsoft" Why you'd list the same point twice
@@TechBlade9000 They aren't the same. The money benefits all employees at mojang and microsoft...... to some extent, and appeasing Microsoft wouldn't be about money. It's about control. It's the adding the useless endangered animals to get kids hyper focused on environmentalist activism through a passive propaganda machine. It inevitably leads to those kids not having kids, or hating their parents or everybody for driving a gas car. All to save the planet in a childish, unrealistic manner. Similar to what young politicians are doing.
Uhhhh I... isn't Swift Sneak for being able to move quickly while not alerting Wardens? Like they use sound to track the player don't they? Is that not the point? There's Wardens in singleplayer, neh?
I agree that Mojang broke trust but your take on the update is ass. It added plenty to the SP experience and Swift Sneak makes bridging a lot quicker which should help a ton when building things that take tons of placing of blocks. Plus it's valuable for sneaking past wardens
Not to mention Mojang allowing a pointless mob such as a retextured squid go up against miniboss mobs and letting them win. Mojang could have easily enriched the game, but doing anything beyond copying a mob and retexturing it would have been too much effort.
Ever since the chat reporting system, the "good enough" updates as well as the blatant removal of C418. It's safe to say Minecraft is no longer my favorite game. And it doesn't look like it's ever going to be again
I have to disagree on the C418 take. Microsoft wants to own the music they implement in their games. C418 refuses to give up ownership of the music he creates. "Blatant removal" would imply that C418's music was removed entirely from the game, which is not what is happening. Since they can't come to an agreement, Microsoft is using other producers to produce new music for the game, without doing anything to the old music that C418 made. This was the best possible outcome, given that historically producers who are in conflict with a mega-corporation often have their creations entirely removed.
@Galactic Ruler After rereading my statement I agree that the statement "blatant removal" is false. I simply feel as though with the coming updates C418 is becoming less and less prevalent. Alongside the notion that Microsoft has C418 available but has chosen not to as evident by their attempts at replicating his style in the newer pieces of music.
@@diegozuniga4201 I don't feel like they're trying to replicate his music style at all. Some of the newer stuff is way more complex and full than C418's mellow slow subdued tunes. Both are great for different reasons, it's a shame that C418 and Microsoft/Mojang couldn't come to an agreement, but that's just business. When he wrote the original tracks for Minecraft, it was still a small-time indie game. Now that it's owned but a large corporation, things need to be done differently, and if they can't get music from him, they'll just go to the next artist willing to do it. Honestly, I really like a lot of the newer stuff, Infinite Amethyst in particular might be my new favorite track in the game.
@@diegozuniga4201 Old Music = Better than New Music, muh nostalgia, new musicians trying to copy C418, waaaaah waaah waaaah
That's you. That's what you sound like.
@@jgblkshot8375 shush, let the adults talk
You r just aweso....i was litterly noob in tNice tutorials...u explained it very simply...thanks i will surely go for next parts of tNice tutorials video.. thanks
I've been saying this since the report feature came out: a 2B2T developer and hacker will eventually devise some program that can obtain the private cryptographic keys of other players, and use the keys to falsify entire conversations between two players who will never, ever see each other, and have them permanently banned.
They will go on a power high, much like those other 2B2T hackers did when they perfected their program that obtained the IPs of every server in existence, private and public, and automatically checked every server for any kind of griefing or player access protections.
And if they don't go on a power high, the program will inevitably get stolen by people who will.
As long as this feature exists, the ENTIRE COMMUNITY is unprecedentedly vulnerable.
The worst part is the punishment. Reported on one (1) server, banned from ALL servers, even your friend's small private server with like 5 other people. You can't even open to LAN.
Like come on, it's CHAT reporting. CHAT. You can't report in-game player actions (like cheating, griefing, inappropriate builds, etc). Only the chat. So why do you get banned from all servers instead of just muted on one? It's like dropping a nuke on someone because they stole a packet of gum from a gas station.
Because some people get offended by chat messages, its harder to be offended by griefing even if its annoying. Plus its very straightforward to moderate. Just one of the many, many reasons that banning should remain server side and decentralized, since server moderators can take care of _everything,_ apply community specific rules thoughtfully, speedily take care of issues, and of course the ban only applies to that server.
you can open to lan, you can't join lan.
also what defines "cheating" is it using a mod if so that would kill all modding support and thus the game
I'm a server owner. a roleplay server owner. topics and conversations that can and *will* happen violate most if not all rules. i moderate my server however the hell i want, and i want NOTHING to do with this new system.
I will only EVER support it if the system is designed to report rule violations to US, as staff of the server. i want Mojang completely hands off.
as it stands right now; i don't trust them, i don't support their rules, and i am against this system entirely. i'm not even considering updating to that version as a result of this, *especially* considering they blocked the usage of certain HTML fonts and characters which were utilized in our resourcepack, and they did this simply to prevent circumvention of the new system.
I'm in support of any and all circumvention methods, as well as methods that break the system by abusing it. normally i'd be against it completely, but as long as it ruins the report system i'm glad. maybe it'll change their minds and they'll get rid of it. i doubt it, but it'll at least give them a headache as bad as the one they gave me. this whole thing is a pain in the ass.
They just completely overlooked Roleplay servers, and i will NOT stand for this bs. Alcoholism, drug abuse, threats, harassment, suicide, impersonation, abuse, violence; these are all things that are part of roleplay, and these are all things that would get you banned simply by being in-character. i know Roleplay is a joke to some people (hell we even make fun of it ourselves at times, we're not all that serious) but it's important to us as it's a way to express ourselves. how the hell are we supposed to do that if the game we're using for it literally bans us for it?
first off: based
second off: whats the ip
you dropped this 👑
You are absolutely right. Imagine roleplaying as characters from a very violent movie, or an online creative project like the SCP foundation. Those topics you mentioned could easily be incorporated into the RP while they would look horrible out of context.
You agreed to their rules when you first started the server
You HAVE to abide to the rules even if you dislike it, Mojang reserves the right to revoke access to their software and your right to play the game (that is the EULA for you)
You own the hardware, correct, nobody is arguing against that, but you DONT own the software, the software which is making the server work, Mojang has the right to change whatever they want on their software on your hardware, you want to host a server, don't you?
Please don't tell me "ok but you fail to see ..." I've seen everything, this antvenom video will cause me to lose hundreds of braincells, just because people have a new reason to go against it
I personally do not care about chat report, I rarely speak in servers, but I understand some people can think differently
The reason I'm writing this essay is because I don't want any more people that think just because they paid for the game and paid for the hardware, they're entitled to modify and change the core game however they so please (note: modded minecraft does not change the core game directly). Additionally, I don't want people to be misinformed, I'm trying my best to be correct in nearly every statement I say that is not my/someone else's opinion
@@ImpaledBerry you don't talk often, so the matter doesn't concern you, you wouldn't understand.
My server however is in hot water because, not only is it a server where talking happens frequently, but it's the main driving point.
Additionally, owning something is exactly what entitles someone to change it, and paying for the game is paying for the software, it's not a "subscription" like steam does.
Believe it or not, but you're completely allowed to modify anything that you yourself hold ownership of. Hell, even those products with warranty labels claiming you're not allowed to modify it without voiding the warranty have been proven false in court, and even illegal (an example source would be something like the article from popular mechanics, though it's not the original source I read it from. I actually had several, but this one is a quick google search).
If it's not obvious, just because the EULA says something doesn't mean it's legal for them to put it.
Even ignoring that fact, you're not making a good excuse for it. Just because they do something doesn't mean people should be forced to put up with it. I'll fight for my right to moderate MY WAY because I can and I need to. I've seen nobody else bring up the dangers this poses to roleplay servers, so someone needs to spread awareness. As I stated, roleplay servers such as mine dive into topics that are dark, and I refuse to allow my users to have their method of expression censored just because Mojang or Microsoft thinks it should be done on all servers. Our server is NOT for children. Children will inevitably get on our server, yes, but our server is not made for kids, and we will not cater to them just because parents can't keep their kids off the wrong places. Mojang might want to do that, but I refuse.
"Nothing you like about Minecraft is going to change"
"This system is not bulletproof."
Sir, this system isn't even toothpickproof.
Players shouldn't have to install a mod to disable a feature just to play the game safely
My biggest problem with the reporting system was definitely the timing of them removing over half of an update to shoe-horn the chat system instead.
I play single player exclusively so I don't really care about the system itself, I'm more concerned with the fact that to me it feels like the messaging from Mojang is that despite the history of the community prettymuch making the game what it is, it's their game and if they want to mismanage and overpromise we just have to deal with it which is not how a community driven game should be prioritized.
"Removing half an update" Contrary to whatever was in your head the Wild Update WAS in fact larger than what was promised.
@@dumigamez397 Wild Update was just Caves and Cliffs Part 3 bro, and still we don't have all the features, like its still missing the archeology, so be ready to another Caves and Cliffs update.
@@sanaki_gamer2026 Thats.....
A) Not True
B) Completely irrelevant.
@@dumigamez397 mojang defender opinion invalid 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@efffegrhhdhddd2695 So mature
I wonder if there'd be a way to set up microservers/proxies where each player is seen as logging into their own "server" and chat messages are synchronized between servers as server messages instead of player messages.
Now that's a good plugin idea.
Hm
@GunColony (Minecraft) nice videos
What annoyed me the most is that you can't disable it on private servers where you play with your friends. If I'm hosting a private server for me and my friends to play on, then why can some corporation add censorship to the chat? Thankfully discord still doesn't filter their vc's and chats.
It's so nice seeing a content creator with a valid opinion because they did their research and understand the implications. I wish other RUclipsrs would do the same before dismissing the pissed off community's worries.
Between this and "Cave Update part 3", I'm glad mods exist. Create mod has been a ton of fun, would not be playing without it.
Same, thats why bedrock is the inferior version of minecraft, atleast mods and maps are free
@Abird Pilguy Because java is a load of mods, it also have better hotkeying
@@abirdpilguy3211 Java's redstone being a buggy mess? I've been playing Bedrock edition for years at this point, and I can not wrap my head around redstone. But Java's redstone makes so much more sense to me.
If you want to know how bad RenderDragon is on my PC -Having Twitch/YT Streams in the Background while in my main Survival World will cause stuttering even with everything at the lowest it can be at my Base (This does not happen with Sims 4, GMod or even Fall Guys even though my PC is at the "Minimum Specs" for 2 of those games)
Also will check those videos out after the DART Approach
I hated this half made 1.19 update that instead of getting no chat reporting i am just playing 1.18.2 and fixing every little bug and bad feature with mods, i have around 200 mods and probable it took only 5 to 10 to fix the bugs the other 190 are just extra features. I don't even use chat that often in mc but i still hate the chat reporting, i will update my game till it is removed or fixed to be safer.
This would be so easy to fix. Just allow an opt-out feature to servers, and maybe add a pop-up for not protected servers and maybe Parental controls to block those from their kids.
And more importantly, even if you get banned you can still join servers that are opted out
@@jackdavenport5011 nah that's too much work for them based on their current performance. I'm pretty sure when your banned you just can't use the multi-player tab at all.
i agree with the parental controls here, but unblock Hypixel.
@@hellolol7288 maybe a Parental controls option that can block or unblock specific servers? Either that or an expansion of the option to allow servers to sign up for self moderation, which would also let it be unblocked.
@@starbeam7679 agreed
I really do hope they improve the system. Since it ain’t getting removed, they could make it so they can make the community happier. I don’t want 2016 to happen all over again
What happened in 2016?
@@shadowgamer5047 we don't talk about 2016.
@@shadowgamer5047 1.9
@@shadowgamer5047 The downfall of Minecraft...
Jappa said in a tweet that was exactly what they plan on doing
That LEMMINO D.B. Cooper theme at the end does hit hard tho
1:30
"1.19.84" was pretty funny honestly
The "investigators" are bots. Mojang has said they don't use bots to handle chat reporting, but they do. It's impossible that even a large team could sift through thousands of reports coming in constantly. There must be some AI that decides which chat messages contain content that's obviously bad enough to ban the player who said it, or whether the message should be sent to a human moderator for review. Mojang is lying to you.
I would imagine an AI system filters the reports, but I would also imagine humans are the ones to issue the bans. Otherwise they can't really say the system is run by people.
@@AntVenom FYI: They've confirmed that the "private investigators" are from an outsourced team according to the developers of Sodium.
I can't imagine the people being any better than Twitter or RUclips people moderation.
So you know it's going flawed, bias and awful.
I read through the list, the harassment and bullying is very poorly defined. The worst thing on the list was Drugs and Alchohol, so many adults play minecraft for which alchohol is perfectly legal, and kids arent banned from speaking about alchohol, in many countries drugs like cannabis are the same. there are others among the list which can easily be misconstrued
I think it means that all these reasons have to be in a very extreme form to be used
In the Czech Republic they even teach children about alcohol and drugs at school. It's not something to report and censor, it's something to talk and teach about to prevent abuse
@@8xus_ who decides what is extreme because I dont trust microsoft to be the final arbiter of justice
@@8xus_ actually no sadly. You may notice a lot of platforms have vague rules. RUclips's guidelines are notorious for being incredibly vague. This is done intentionally. Setting rules in stone means that only specific situations can be bannable. Many other situations can't be enforced. Also it allows wiggle room for platforms to completely deplatform someone if pressure is applied for above (e.g. law enforcement, payment processors) This is all done to be able to cover their ass. It also allows for blatant favoritism to exist; Twitch, for example, is incredibly notorious for this.
Or being banned for being suicidal, they need therapy not a ban.
Misinformation and impersonation are the worst as It most up to interpretation
It always makes my day when AntVenom makes a serious video about Minecraft :)
This update is a crazy reach of power. If its on official servers, fine, but on private servers, it should be to the owners to decide.
they can even hire bpo companies (company that works for another company) which are mostly situated in countries like india where you can get cheap and over pressured labour to moderate those chats, which would be disastrous.
That's the worst part
look at roblox, yikes
I think it’s interesting that there is a report for self-harm and suicide. Like imagine you are hurting so much that you put it in chat and you get banned from what could be your only source of happiness..
i think it's more on the "encouraging" side of things but the vagueness definitely does make that a possibility..
Yeah dude, that sucks man.
Does the /msg or /whisper command get around this?
it’s like if you saw someone posting slurs on twitter, and instead of reporting them to twitter to get them banned from twitter, you reported them to google to get them banned from chrome.
EDIT: and, of course, "posting slurs" is far from the only bannable offense. "leaving early" is rather questionable, particularly in the context of Minecraft.
removing 'posting slurs' and it would be true
@@freerobux49 that's true. not all of the bannable offenses are so reasonable.
the reason i focused on "posting slurs" is that, regardless of what the rules were, or who was judging them, i would still be opposed to mojang chat reporting on principle.
@@Snidbert I was making a joke on how you usually want to avoid someone who uses Twitter but fair enough I suppose 💀
@@freerobux49 oh. i completely misunderstood that. but true.
Bedrock Edition on Consoles in terms of stability, support, and performance is a lot worse in my opinion when compared to the original Console Editions developed from 4J.
Honestly 4j's version should have been the crossplay one, it actually feels like Minecraft unlike Bedrock edition
Both were made in C++, according to the Minecraft Wiki, so a legacy console edition port should’ve been easy.
However, each different version (Xbox 360/1, PS3/4/Vita, Switch, Wii U) was its own unique version, which would’ve made it harder to port.
Still though, it was MUCH more stable. Bedrock is squeezing everything out of a phone, so we can’t even call it the “mobile friendly” port anymore.
To add on to this, 360 edition even survived The Fattening AND is just about as stable as Bedrock edition.
AntVennom only focuses on PC performance along with most other java RUclipsrs. Don't expect a full comparison of all of them.
i remember my game being at around 20-30 fps while fighting the ender dragon on multiplayer console edition, its super laggy
The community gave Minecraft the ability to grow and it did. We most certainly have the ability to take our grace away..
this situation reminds me of when RUclips removed dislikes and when anyone In power messes up for that matter like people get mad for a bit the company/person either says they are or aren't going to change (doesn't really matter they don't change either way) and eventually people stop caring