Shmups are Not DISPOSABLE, Mainstream Media Needs to Take the Genre Seriously | Patron Vid 4 FULLSET
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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Its mainstream vs hardcore. Mainstream want to be entertained. Hard core want to be challenged and rewarded. Same with film, books, music.
Yes it is! You're exactly right. I think the only difference, in this case, is that there hasn't been any hardcore representation for shmups in the general gaming media at all. Some of the blame is on the mainstream, but also there is blame on the shmup scene as well, where, up to this point, we have been much too insular and unwilling to engage with wider audiences.
@@TheElectricUnderground agreed.
Shots fired at the industry. Open everyone's eyes Mark! M2 Shot triggers need to be worshipped like the gods they are.
Yes, exactly ha! I think I'm going to make a video soon called "ShotTriggers Have NO Business Sense ... And I LOVE IT," ha :-D Yes, there's actually a story where the guy who gave DeathTiny a perfect score for Eurogamer got some pushback from his editor or whoever because DeathTiny is a shmup.
Jak3 Ry4n Shots fired because he’s triggered! Lol.
@@TheElectricUnderground I want to know that story, sounds interesting
Also M2 is blessed, they make the best ports ( so much love for the games)
i still have one hate thing on M2 shottrigger...they exclusivly port them on PS4/Switch only....but not steam/Xbox i mean i really want to Try M2 ports too.... but i don't have any consoles but PC....😢
@@RuV9999 I know how you feel, but M2 is a really small indie company. They don't have the resources unfortunately to put their games on all consoles. The most cost-effective way to do it for them is to Port it on the consoles that they feel will sell them the most copies. PS4 and switch are definitely the best consoles this generation for the genre.
The sad reality of the matter is. Smhups as a whole will never be taken seriously. The majority doesn't see Shmups the way we all do. To them it's not a competitive game, and that's what's popular right now... PVP. Today's landscape doesn't care about who has a high score, and what I grasp from a lot of players want to get into the genre, they just find them too hard.
These games matter, but we can't expect the media to help make them matter. We as a community have to do it ourselves, sticking to Shmups forums isn't going to cut it. I feel we have to really come together and make more streams, push more scoring videos with beginners, not super players to discourage new players. All this will take time
Hey my dude, glad to see you again! :-D I agree 100%, and all the stuff you mention is basically what I have been working on ha. The cool thing about me writing for Nintendo Life right now is that it is at least a small venue where we can start to push our perspective into the mainstream more :-) It hasn't been easy, that's for sure, but over these past few months I feel like progress is being made.
Look up Studio Mudprints on You Tube. They mostly review and play Shmups.
@@thirdsupernova I love studio blueprints. I'm a big fan of they're content
people in general don't take videogames seriously, it gets worse for a small niches. Merge that with the fact that journalist are usually external buyable people who keeps at the surface companies cluster and you have them disrespecting things the more nerdy and obscure they are
Even among RUclipsrs that like shmups, you are about the only one I know of that recognizes just how important high quality bespoke ports like M2 Shottriggers are. They should pretty much be the gold standard for how any company should do a shmup port / re-release / remaster. If it's not at, or approaching, that quality level it fully deserves all the criticism it gets. This topic makes me think of just how poor games journalism is in general, but let's not get into that can of worms or I'll be here all day. :DD
Finally, even for the casual player, ports like M2 does are much better because you get far more and better options for enjoying the game at an easier difficulty level, plus training modes that actually teach you how to play the game. Knowing how to actually play shmups is becoming a lost art.
Thanks for the words of support my dude, I really do appreciate it! It does feel like I'm trying to get wider recognition for these games, but it's hard to break through the void of the internet ha. Also gaming journalism man, yeah I have some choice things to say about it. I think I'll make a video on the topic and my thoughts. Hopefully, it doesn't get me in too much trouble ha. It's ok if it does though. X-D
I feel like some of this might be because many shmups can be finished in an hour or less if you use continue spam. So that kinda makes them look disposable. Maybe comparing them to rhythm games could help, people seem to understand how those sessions are short but you put a lot of time into practicing them for high scores.
Absolutely! I agree completely. I actually talked about the parallels of shmups and rhythm games in an older podcast episode (Shmup Streaming with CloudyMusic) and we discussed the overlap. :-D The only problem is that these days, rhythm games and shmups are sort of being in the same boat as being pretty dang niche, unfortunately. I love the idea though, and there were a ton of people who played guitar hero back in the day. Thanks for watching!!
I think the key to getting SHMUPS the respect they deserve is to reinforce the zen aspect of overcoming bullet hell swarms. That state of being "in the zone" and really feeling how the game flows is essential.
Not if your attitude toward RPGs, action-adventure games and roguelites is typical among space shooter players they won't.
I bought this week Gradius Collection for my psp, when that music kicked in I was sent back to the days of playing the game in the arcades, magic.
Oh man!!! I actually love the Gradius Collection on PSP, that's a great release!!
@@TheElectricUnderground I bought a replacement PSP a couple of years back and Gradius Collection was one of the first games I got for it. It's really good
I agree with you 100% The standards many reviewers have for fringe genres are abysmally low compared to mainstream genre releases. They are fine with shovelware shmup collections.
Exactly! Plot twist, if you end up writing reviews for these sites and give a critical review, you get the boot ha.
"I'm a realist. I take emulation into account."
This. I very strongly resonate with this.
I'm a fighting game player, and while I appreciate and purchase most of Capcom's Arcade ports, acting like Fightcade doesn't exist will hurt both consumers and the company itself.
*_Companies need to give a strong reason to buy a game instead of emulating/pirating it._*
I live in Mexico and piracy is an everyday occurrence here. I grew up with pirated PS2 games and emulating games on my PC.
I only started buying official games when Steam teamed up with a Brazilian bank and started accepting bank deposits in Central and South America.
Suddenly, spending 10 USD to "click and play" games became an option, which is way more appealing than surfing sketchy websites to find ROMs and BIOS.
Absolutely my friend :-)
Right on, Mark. New to your channel, and i agree with your overall point, here. Raiden Project on PSX was the last time I was impressed in the regard that you’re mentioning, and that’s sad (obviously there have been a few good ones in between then and now - just further illustrating your point).
For sure! I'm glad you found the channel and the video! :-D Raiden project is awesome, also ha.
The Electric Underground I think that a few DC games / ports need to be put on blast. For reference, my fave game of all time is The Guardian Legend, partly because it added an extra layer to the typical Shmup environment. It would def be cool to brainstorm how to not only get devs to put out good ports, but also to innovate.
The video is spot on! Some STG publishers do not care because the casual player just want to credit feed a game for 20 mins. No concern for input lag, save states etc. And maybe he will play the shmup just 2 or 3 times before forgetting about it.
Please Mark remain critical of bad ports. The shmup community is too niche for the most part and we need some of the hardcore players to at least try to educate the masses. And some publishers too.
For sure! Oh boy thanks for the reminder actually because I have an upcoming Nintendo Life review (at least I think so ha), that is going to be controversial AF ha. Also, I said some other stuff in this comment that I decided would be wiser to leave unsaid ha. I'm sure you remember what it was though ;-D
@@TheElectricUnderground ah I will be on the fence for the review then!
I agree with you 100%. I have shooters like Gradius III and Axelay for SNES that I still enjoy playing through to this day. The challenge, music, atmosphere, graphics, visuals, and music are all part of the experience. I am always looking for other experiences especially for the fact us in the North American market were deprived a lot of the great games released in Japan. The mainstream doesn’t really give the genre its due credit for the challenge and fun to be had within it. Especially games from companies that are no longer around.
For sure my dude! Also as a fan of Gradius 3 for the Snes, you should check out the romhack someone did that removes the slowdown of the Snes port!! It's more challenging, but much more fun to play. :-D Thanks for watching!
The Electric Underground you’re welcome man. I’m watching the Cave vid now 😁🎮.
This is one of my fav genres , maybe because I'm older and been playing schmups forever, but they calm me. Something about dodging bullets and blowing things up is therapeutic to me. My Switch is loaded with these. I wish there were more of them, especially some of the Raiden games we didnt get in the states.
Yes! I would love to see raiden fighters aces on the Switch! It's my favorite Raiden game and its a pretty deep cut because it's only on the 360, not PC or current gen consoles. Thanks for watching my dude!
Input lag cripples the shmup experience. Very true about shmups being tossed aside. I actually just got into the genre this year and I'm loving the hell out of it. Mostly been into RPGs till now
Check out my how to shmup series, it will be helpful :-)
I think your approach is the right one. There's a lot of these rereleases that are basically just a rom with a barely functioning emulator, where you'd have a vastly superior option running it elsewhere using a better emulator and the options that provides. As I live in a PAL region, that has in the past even included releases with messed up aspect ratios and severe slowdown and irregular framepacing. We should hold these releases to a higher standard.
Also, good thing you backed up on Tetris, the pitchforks can be put away.
Yeah. Nowadays, there’s too much focus on stuff like "This game has 100 hours of gameplay" and stuff, especially without considering what that gameplay consists of. It's very easy to just pad out this number with long, forced waiting, hiding behind cover to recharge your shield or heal up, or even reload your weapons.
One particularly annoying example is boss fights where you’re supposed to attack at specific times when the boss is vulnerable, or even more egregiously, when the boss just decides you can attack him now.
Many people devalue shoot 'em ups because you can pick up and play them and beat them in 30-45 minutes, as opposed to hundreds of hours, not taking into account that shoot 'em ups are designed to be played over and over again, until you master them. Anyone can simply beat them fairly quickly, but that allows for multiple playthroughs with more and more challenges you're going for. Perhaps you're going for a high scoring run in one playthrough, tgen change things up and go for a no deaths and/or no bombs run. Perhaps in a shmup with powerups, you could go thru the game without them, or deliberately lose tgem right before facing the boss so you can beat the boss without the powerups you'd normally have. In the case of Bullet Hell Monday, you could have a similar challenge by going through the arcade-style Challenge mode with a deliberately underpowered version of a certain weapon.
Even if you don’t go for those wacky challenges and focus on high score or no deaths/bombs, it'll still take a lot of skill to get through the game those ways, and choosing to do that challenge is a demonstration of how much you've grown since you've started playing, especially if that game has a memorable wake-up call boss that absolutely kicked your ass on your first playthrough, but now you can beat him without a scratch and/or without using any bombs, or alternatively, you can beat this boss in a way that earns you a lot of points.
For example, the final boss of Bullet Hell Monday's challenge mode is a much more long-winded affair tgan the other boss fights, especially in the final phase, which I believe has ~60K HP (most boss phases have 10-16K, and your weapons do ~1000 DPS when fully powered).
On your first playthrough, you'd likely be desperately dodging all these frantic attacks that flood the screen with bullets, or telegraphing lasers all over tge screen, all of which you'd have to weave in between.
However, later on, you can use this longetivity to your advantage by using the previous phases to build up your score multiplier, then pretty much toying with the boss by milking this final phase for hundreds of millions of points, in a game where you get an extra life and 3 bombs every 20M points.
"I remember when I struggled to defeat you, desperately didging your attacks. Now look at me. Here I am, beating you, barely having to dodge your attacks at all. Even when I run out of bombs, I can just get more, either by letting you hit me or scoring high enough for an extend. An infinite positive feedback loop that your attacks are only contributing to by giving me something to feed on."
It`s so true... there has to be a change how the genre is seen and I think this day will come. I also wanna do my part in this and try to teach friends and others with play sessions at home and reviews here on RUclips, why these games are so important.
Very good topic
For sure man! I really like the idea of trying to get your friends into the genre, I think that goes a long way and that's one of the reasons fighting games got popular again. Thanks for watching :-)
@@TheElectricUnderground I was stuned how many of my friends enjoyed IKARUGA after showing them. Couple of them bought it on there 360 via Xbox Live Arcade. Trying now to hook some of´em with Mushihimesama Futari to dip there toes into the danmaku genre.
I'm still somewhat of a layman in the genre but trying to learn more as I'm fascinated by the subculture of it (your channel helps) but something else to note is the timeline and audience of the original releases. I think that's a major issue for why quick sloppy barebones releases don't inspire the same passion in the west. Arcades were declining or at least shifting in America for most of the 1990s and 2000s while Japan still had a reasonably strong arcade culture (comparatively). Many of the now famous Cave games weren't even released in America during their initial run. Consequently a lot of these games aren't nearly as familiar (individually or just as a genre) as FPS and RPGs are, because they didn't grow up with them much. They might know Gradius or 1942/3 but those are from an older different generation to them. They don't feel nostalgia for some of these games because unless you sought them out online it's much more likely you were playing Resident Evil clones during that time frame.Gaming also increasingly became more mainstream with tutorials/cinematics/lower difficulty right as shmup developers decided to crank the formula to 11 for their fans. I love the excitement and intensity of these games. Modern audiences tend to be bored or intimidated by them I think though, and it's hard to get them (players, reviewers, anyone) to evaluate releases with a fine tooth comb when they only vaguely understand the genre to begin with. Thank you for being the exception to that. I hope you're correct about pushing the more hardcore view into the wider public to make things change.
Honestly,I do agree to you.Sometimes a few changes are needed to appeal the audience.
BTW,there is one shump series that doesn't have too much playing modes:It is the Touhou Project and somehow having a lot of fans (since one game is released per year).
The thing that really helps stuff like the Touhou project is that they are new games coming out, so there is more leeway for me than something like a port, where the game content has already been created and played before, I hope that helps clarify my perspective a little bit :-)
@@TheElectricUnderground Well,Touhou is quite much an old STG,it just only acknowledged recently (2 years ago) due to the sole developers focusing on doujin market instead of mainstream.
Also,thanks for the heart and reply.
They all do it, I played on one of those Capcom Home Arcade things recently. That thing comes stock with octagonal gates and more input lag than MAME. You can't even access the service menu to change DIP settings, in Progear you can't turn on full auto on button 3!
thats becauad it doesnt run mame
it runs fba
What kind of gate is best for shmups and fighters? o.o
@@OnionChang octa for 2d fighters
square for shmups
is my set up
@@OnionChang Square gate. I'll make a video on why, but it's basically because of the clean activation of the diagonals.
That's a perfect example! Not even being able to access the dipswitches to turn on autofire (which is totally possible on the stolen emulator they used) is another example where an absolutely essential function of the game is being completely ignored because care is not being shown to these games.
Oddly I got into Shmups after buying the Mega drive mini, thunder force 3 and Darius are brilliant
Fun fact, Mega Drive mini was created by M2, the same company behind the amazing ShotTrigger games :-D It's the perfect fit and those Genesis shmups are really great. I was impressed by the Mega Drive port of Darius 2, I think it is the best Darius 2 port I have played so far.
what if shmup rereleases had 2 versions you could buy. the standard, barebones, arcade version that would be super cheap and made for the pick up and play, and then a complete version that comes with all the extra content like arranged and training and remixes and all that jazz. i also feel like shmups might not be profitable for how difficult they can be to make/port. idk it definitely feels like people tend to think of them as "pick up and play for a few minutes" kinda games tho. another thing i dont really like about shmups right now, especially cave shmups, is that they are all being ported to different consoles and platforms. i wish i could have all of the ports on PC but thats probably not going to happen. the only cave game i havent played is saidaioujou because that shit is so expensive on 360 and theres no version for pc now or probably ever. at least i can emulate esprade but i wish i had all the features of the ps4 port
I actually think this is a cool idea! I'd be down for it. Like if M2 released a cheaper base game for like $20 and then the full game with all the extra content for $60, I could dig that. Yeah, sometimes I sincerely wish I could be involved with M2 when it comes to their decisions because they basically have given up on the Western market (hence no PC ports are ever likely), but they also have no visibility whatsoever. With the right moves though, I think they could gain more attention if they approached the right people (like maybe SuperBunnyHop and Dunkey) who seem to have some fondness for the genre.
The problem with this scenario is that they would still have to put in the development time to bring the full feature set to users, and if the ratio of buyers is 80/20, cheap version/feature version, there’s less likelihood that they will want to continue to devote time and resources to the full feature set, because they would see that a more slapdash port would be a more cost effective way to get the games out there. I don’t see M2 taking that approach, because they’re invested in the genre, but it’s still about putting food on the table, at the end of the day. If they knew enough of the player base would pony up for all the features, enough to make it worth doing, the non-feature version could be a way to help buffer that, from a cost containment perspective, but it’s definitely a balance they’d have to strike.
Your channel has become one of my favorites, your commentary is very logical and articulate
I m really happy to hear that!
I have recently gotten into shmups. I have been a fan of the soundtracks for years on end now, but my love for the soundtracks and
vicious curiosity is what has propelled me into looking into the genre even further - to the point where I have purchased a fight stick and have committed to improving my skills. Now I have a full(er) grasp of what the genre really has to offer, and it's sad that many who love the soundtracks stop at that aspect. Thank you for your intellectually stimulating videos as they have helped me understand the genre more and also gems that I might have never stumbled upon otherwise.
I was looking for a video like this as I see that the shmup community is still extremely niche when it has potential to grow even into the mainstream - just like the ssbm community and even the fighting game community as whole. I think you made a lot of good points in this video. As I have attempted to turn people onto this genre, there appears to be no general interest or even acknowledgement.
It's awesome how these games are becoming more accessible with releases on the switch and consoles alike, but some of the ports are pretty rudimentary (sometimes subpar). I'm more about the practicality of the fact - so if the porting gets the job done, that suffices for me, but I acknowledge that this isn't a good outlook for people who have still yet to be convinced by the genre. The efforts of the porting, I think, intrinsically shows how a general audience might value that particular game. So, if a port or - version - only shows minimum effort (like you said, versions that lack any extra features that would make the game even more worth while) it will only relay to potential audiences that these games are nothing but throwbacks to a previous era and shouldn't be taken anymore seriously than a "novelty" game.
I would definitely like to see that change in the future ^-^
Thanks for the awesome comment :-)
I don't want a Dodonpachi collection with tons of titles 😅
i want one game with a lot of modes and the perfect Emulation possible !!
the truth is i would not buy esp ra de without the psy mode 😅
Agreed! I also greatly prefer individual releases that add extras (especially arranges) over the collections that just offer the roms.
Arrange Modes are the bread and butter of a modern released shmup. Love them
SHMuPs are tremendously undervalued. Both sides have valid arguments. However, as a SHMuP Player. It’s maddening to see so little support & or mainstream development in the genre. The worst thing is I never see SHMuPs on Store shelves. So, availability is a major issue. The Classics are already expensive & hard to find. There’s no (good) reason for that to be true for New releases.
Yes you are right, that lack of visibility in stores hurts us from getting new fans. The instant buy impulse of the genre is something we have going for us, so I think it is a problem for sure. I remember trying to buy deathsmiles back in the day and it was basically impossible to do in a store, even when the 360 was popular.
I see shmups on the store shelves all the time because no one but me buys them. Raiden V is everywhere. Doesn't help Raiden V isn't good but point stands.
Aureate Seigneur hey 👋🏿 I’m not sure what region or part of the world you reside on. However, your statement isn’t universally correct. As far as Raiden V not being good. That’s a matter of tastes, expectations & or preferences.
@@DeadThumbGamer I'm in Arizona in the United States. No bastion for Shmups I promise you and I see them all over the place. I bought Raiden Jet off shelf 3 months ago.
Are you on of those people where the people you respond to have to qualify very obvious opinions with IMO after every statement?
Obviously Raiden Vs quality is subjective it just happens to be an opinion many Radien fans agree with. V is over long and very dull. From a very personal viewpoint I find the backgrounds extremely annoying with many bullets blending into them, or some of them like stage 2 flying by so fast it makes my eyes hurt.
Aureate Seigneur hahaha lol, Nawh I’m not, the use of imo kinda irks me. Still, I get why ppl use it. Kudos to your region. I’m in MN & my truth speaks from my experiences.
Hah, awesome stuff! I've put this onto my personal watch list yesterday, didn't notice the mention at the end of the title 🤗 Funny you picked exactly the topic where I'm actually anxious about when it comes to hearing your judgement, as we're actually working on a shmup for the Neo Geo due to be release end of this year. I'll better make sure we proactively get and factor in your feedback along the way if you're up to it 😺 Keep it coming!
Hell yes my dude! I'm glad the video was a good fit!!! Also, I love the Neo Geo and indie games so I'm be down to provide feedback :-)
I want a DOJ M2 port so much, with all the previous content (DL, X-Mode) plus Arrange mode.
I would instantly buy it without hesitation.
ME TOO! I know man, we need that amazing DOJ port! the 360 version is no good and the ps2 version doesn't have Black Label :-(
don't forget Black label mode with really good input lag in M2 port.
I'm still mad as hell Gradius didn't get an Anniversary Collection release like Contra and Castlevania did. Those weren't M2's more feature rich releases but the emulation work was so good.
I really wanted Gradius 3 SNES, IV and Gaiden on modern systems. 5 would have been nice but you know that would have been unlikely. I wouldn't mind if Salamander 1 and 2 were in it's place though.
Agreed.. it seems they forgot Gradius exist foreshadowing by MGS/Castlevania/Contra. i want Gradius anniversary collection too...
Dodonpachi Campaign Version pls. I need that 315 bullet count, hyper system and 4 digit combo counters.
Yes, man I want to play Campaign version like crazy. Please make it happen M2.
You don’t need to do battle in the comments section of your own article. You wrote the piece, you had your say. Let the commenters speak their piece. The viewpoint that 25 year old games should be cheap is not an inherently terrible opinion. Remember that on release they only cost 50¢ to play and probably only 1% of players ever got past the first level.
I definitely dont' have to ha, but I feel the need to just because I want to capitalize on every opportunity I can to engage with mainstream people on this topic. What's kind of crazy is that, even though I produce a ton of content and try to be as vocal as possible, my outreach is very small. It's kind of like I'm standing out in the woods yelling at the top of my lungs ha. So even though it can be exhausting, I do want to try and fully engage with new people about shmups and share my perspective. Thanks for watching my dude!!
I’m following this channel BECAUSE you threw shade at Zerodiv in your Nintendo Life review of ESP Ra.de :). I agree that it is easy to treat shmups as disposable quarter munchers. You get out what you put into them. Therefore i personally would rather spend quality time with a quality port and pay $65 rather than $8 for a laggy rom dump.
I get that some are just happy these games are ported at all though.
Man I really like the part where you say, "You get out what you put into them," that should go in the shmup hall of fame or something because that's a perfect description of how the genre works. It's crazy but shmups can appeal to someone who just wants a few minutes of fun, but also be deep enough to reward players who dedicate decades towards studying and playing them. Thanks for watching and supporting the channel my dude!
I can relate to this, I'm critical of the 360 Arcade ports from the Saturn treasure games and people act like I'm way off base, RS on 360 removed the options menu, unlockables, Sound test, level select and practice modes, made the saturn mode 1 credit maximum, and the HD mode uses bloom lighting that sticks out compared to the spritework pretty badly some textures are screwed up too.
Ikaruga removed a lot of the cool extras too. Guardian heroes looks a bit off compared to the original.
They're affordable and translated, but absolutely don't replace the originals. If people can't afford the original games I can totally understand that however, they're a decent alternative and at least do the core gameplay justice.
Nice Batsugun gameplay, relating to the topic; if Batsugun were given the Shottriggers treatment and the Special version was left out with no extras I'd be complaining.
Thanks my dude! Yeah it sounds like we are on the same wavelength for sure. What's funny is that I have also gotten pushback on my feelings on the 360 ports of DOJ + and Ketsui. I have a whole video on my DOJ + review (I need to update the thumbnail though, ha), but my thoughts on the Ketsui 360 port are as follows: Ket 360 isn't bad, it does have the rudimentary things I want to see, though it does run a bit too fast compared to the pcb. However, the reason why I do not recommend this release anymore is because Ketsui DeathTiny obliterates it. So for any new buyer, I will always say to buy Deathtiny, rather than the 360 port.
Thanks for the info I'll keep that in mind, I've been considering adding a 360 to my setup once I can afford it, but if the Shottriggers PS4 remasters are just that much better I might just skip the 360.
I never really noticed until this video but most ports really are below the standard or just passable, I stopped playing ACA gunbird 2 after a short amount of time because it kept desynching and misreading inputs with lag.
Ports like those will continue to come out because they sell, and I saw many people (at least in the mainstream) didn't get ESP RA DE psi because they think it's too expensive.
I have a friend that is an expert on shumps. He barely plays anything that isn't arcade. He says that nobody cares about shumps, not even the shump community. Many people there just like to be in there, but they don't play the games, they play JRPGs, which might be the opposite genre to shumps.
Ha that's funny. He's not wrong, there is definitely an element of that within the shmup scene, no doubt. I'm hoping things start to improve though :-)
About Chrono Trigger. Actually iOS version was decent for many years, and THEN they made that Steam version and together with that they CHANGED ios version so it matches new shitty version; later, after backlash, they updated steam version, but not sure about ios one
Yeah I'm a bit out of my element when I get into RPG talk ha, but I wanted to talk about something that would be relatable. I definitely don't have the full grasp of the situation, but I did remember when this was going down with the steam version and thinking, "wow, this is something I deal with for shmup releases all the time, and yet I think it's cool how the RPG fans (at least some) are pushing back."
I am a big time platformer fan and I feel we somewhat has the same problem when it comes to media.
You're so right about the silliness of the mainstream ignoring emulation. Everyone uses it, and yet it's treated like it doesn't exist. Incredibly stupid.
I loveeeee your videos and I just got into shmups. Thank god someone like you exists here on youtube
Fantastic video.
Thank you! I really do appreciate the kind feedback! :-D In a way it's really cool that you were nice enough to write the comment because it's not something we as audience members do enough (myself definitely included).
The mainstream gaming press' attitude towards shmups is really not much different the mainstream movie critics attitude towards horror movies.
Yes for sure!
You are totally right, these ports should ADD value, and meet basic modern standards of videogames. There are probably older ports like radiant silvergun to the 360 that meet the standards better than some of these ROM dumps.
After paying attention to some shmup vods, and playing some more again, these games definitely aren't some easy 30 minute game for a studio to crap out. It could, but a good one won't be done easy. You have to make all these detailed, visually pleasing backgrounds, that the player only sees for a second or less. Balancing can't be the easiest, because you have to make all main modes beatable by human, as well as making it not feel boring to fail so you want to quit, and fun/rewarding to play and win. Sound design, effects, music, engaging mechanics, sometimes path trees,, and more. All of these factors aren't just "boop done". Really complex.
I'm fairly new to the genre, starting again with what I have. Sine Mora EX, radiant Silvergun, ikaruga, panzer dragon orta (genre adjacent I guess), and Uuuugh, I think thats it right now. I might snag another soon, I want to get something for my ps vita but that library is limited so Idk. I'll look through your videos to try and find one thats on vita.
Interesting stuff as always, thanks for taking the genre so seriously!
I've seen so many reviewers give a shmup a bad review simply because the game's price.
I know it's absolute crap behavior!
Never thought of it this way. Actually looked at those shot trigger remakes and my first thought was 50$ was way to much. I'm all for these hq ports now. Might grab those m2 ones for ps4.
Oh good! I'm glad my video helped explain why the m2 releases are so great! Also, I'm glad you mention your honest experience because I don't think you are alone, I think that the value of these games has no been clearly communicated in the mainstream. So I'm really happy to have helped!
The Shot Triggers ports are a very good example how much of an upgrade an already existing "retro" game can get with the proper effort. With all these deep options and the detailed mechanical information (like the rank meter in Garegga or proximity indicator in Ketsui), a player can really visually see how much intricate detail is going on behind the scenes of a good shmup.
You can tell how much M2 appreciate the games they port, and this love radiates over to the player who pays attention to such details.
Contrast this even with big releases like the Mario 3D collection on Switch, where the games are emulated and presented in the most barebones, lazy way. It's like Nintendo themselves don't really care. Compare this with the recent PC reverse engineering effort by fans that both carefully recreates the base game while also adding tons of new helpful convenience features - it's basically the M2 port of Mario games.
Hey Mark, would you be able to add the names of the games featured in the videos to the description? I find myself being interested in a lot of them, without finding a name.
It also might hook someone who stumbles across your videos on a game.
Thank you for the suggestion! I have added in the game in this description (Batsugun) and will continue to do so with videos moving forward. It's a good idea :-D
This comment is way late, but since this video's concept is still relevant, I'll say it anyway. The perception around shooters is very complicated. So many people who aren't knee deep into shooters see, on the surface, a genre that looks similar now to how it did 30 years ago. If they hear players talk about shooters, the first thing they usually hear is whether are not it is "arcade accurate," which muddies things even more. For one, they think that's all we care about, and two, it takes a deep player to really truly understand that accuracy in the first place. To someone who isn't heavily into shooters, those ROMs look arcade perfect, so who cares about anything else?
It's tricky. For instance, there was a lot of love put into the SNK 40th Anniversary Collection. I'm a diehard Time Soldiers fan. I have an actual, original cabinet, and 3 pcbs with different ROM revisions. If I was someone who'd never played Time Soldiers, and I played it for the first time on that collection, I'd think it was a twin stick shooter. I'd also think that the levels played in the same order every time. I'd have no idea what an LS-30 rotary stick was, and I wouldn't know the random nature of the level order, and how it's actually far more likely on real hardware that you'd start in the Age of Rome than starting in the World Wars 100% of the time. I can point out just about every little inaccuracy, whereas to someone else, it looks arcade perfect, not even realizing that the P powerup has mechanics specifically designed to reward players for correctly using that rotary stick. To most people, it's perfect and I'm an anal retentive douche for noticing. To me, it means I'll stick with my cabinet.
What I'm getting at there is that "arcade perfect" doesn't even mean the same thing to everyone, so those people definitely aren't going to understand the value in arrange modes and training. Caring that much about a genre that to most is "same-y" appears nitpicky from the outside, and I don't know if they'll ever understand unless something happens to really get them into shooters.
I'm very much in agreement here. One of the loneliest things in video games is to, on a surface level, share a hobby with millions of other people, yet to know no one in your day-to-day real life that even has heard of the games you love to play, regardless of genre, and shooters are pretty niche as-is. When I say "video games" around friends or co-workers, our minds are going in totally different directions, and there's nothing wrong with them liking what they like... we all just would like to feel understood sometimes.
I think that for shmups to get the recognition and understanding that they deserve, something is going to have to come out that is a game changer. Something that finds mass appeal like shooters haven't had in 30 years. I don't know what that is or what it looks like, but it won't be a re-release of a 20+ year-old game with all the right bells and whistles; it'll be a new gateway drug that catches fire and gets people to go back and get interested in Cave, Raizing, Toaplan, Compile, etc. I'm glad too see attempts with stuff like Resogun or Sol Cresta, even if they aren't my jam. If it happens, though, people like you will get a lot more respect for having your point of view.
What an awesome comment! Thanks for tuning in to one of my older vids ha
Hey, I love your content. It's inspired me to get serious about shmups, and I try to give every topic some thoughtful feedback.
Could I suggest a fun topic? Probably doesn't need a ton of time into it, I'm just curious about it myself and really wanted to get your feedback.
If you were putting together a shmup focused game room, how would you go about it? What consoles could safely be emulated, what might be worth getting an everdrive type solution and what would you think is worth the investment to get? How would design the perfect shmup den?
Oh That is a really good topic! Yeah I'll have to do that as a video!
As much as I like shmups I personally think the majority of shmups ARE disposable for the following reasons..
any Modern game takes a lot more effort and creativity to make than a shmup. Even in this day and age of high powered pc and consoles the majority of shmups are rehashing the old 2d sprite style of yesteryear. Imagine how cool it would be if someone would actually make the effort to redraw hd graphics of classics like ketsui!. You can get a glimpse of this possibility on the m2 battle garegga port loading screens, the ships in the hanger look amazing.
Secondly.. as long as you can freely continue to the end of a shmup people think that mashing continue to the end is beating the game. Continues should be very minimal and only an option after several hours of play so at least the player makes an effort to beat the game
Thirdly.. whilst the sole aim of a shmup is to get the end it will be disposable. Take a gAme like Tetris. If you played Tetris for 20 minutes and then it said game over that game would be disposable but it does not, at least only it only ends at very extreme levels of Human ability. The challenge comes from bettering yourself and beating your personal best score.
4. Lastly.. shmups should have an intelligent self adjusting Difficulty level so if you just want a casual easy fly through to kill 20 mins or you should be Able to increase the difficulty of the game through gameplay. Ie .. the longer you keep enemy’s alive onscreen the more points you get but the more projectiles they spam. This way you can push yourself at your own ability level not someone’s idea of what you should be capable of. So in summary.. more effort In hd graphics, on the fly difficulty ramps manipulated by the player. Several soundtracks per game. ( I feel the Ost has a massive affect on wether the game becomes a classic . ( would Garegga be as good with a shit soundtrack!?) lAstly , it’s all about score. If the games are more accessible then all of us will have a chance to battle on our own level of leaderboard instead of 20 people in the world putting in crazy scores. Also give the player an incentive to play!, reward him with coins for unlockable ship and art and even real life prizes for the most dedicated . Make it about competition not matching continue!!.
I just read your post and you definitely have a ton of valid points. What's funny is that the game you need to play right now is ZeroRanger, as it was designed with many of these ideas in mind. I also have a really great interview with them on the podcast playlist that I think you should check out. Of course this is me recommending my own stuff ha, but I sincerely do think it matches up with a lot of what you talk about in your post. Funnily enough, there is a system within shmups that does dynamically adjust for difficulty as the player improves and gets higher scores, it's called rank. It's a really interesting concept that I should probably do a video on to explain how it works and everything. Thanks for the idea ha. :-D
The Electric Underground I understand rank management but take yagawas system for example, you have to be good at a very difficult game to even earn enough points to throw lives away. I am talking of a more gradual linear gradient. So if your a total noob you can cruise through and look at the pretty graphics, when you feel a bit more confident you start “ agitating” the enemy a little bit and as you progress you “ “ agitate” them more and more until you are pushing yourself. With yagawas system he is stilll deciding how hard the game should be even if you drop a rank level. It should be a gradient not a step change imo. I will defo look into that game you mention. I also could have cited sdoj as an excellent example of rewarding the player. I done lots of the trials, A to learn the game and B, unlock pictures of scantily clad pilots and the saya ship and visible bee locations
Ps.. I’m hanging on a wire for you to play ddp maximum. I think you are going to fall in love!. It has all the bullet patterns, enemy’s and songs from all the classic CAVE games!. Please update us when you play / review it.
Lastly.. I have spoken for years about someone making a 2 player vs shmup akin to playing street fighter. Imagine if another player was controlling the dodonpachi corps while you piloted an opposing ship!. It could be very big!. I know touhou have a vs game but I’m talking head to head fight as though you were controlling the ai in a cVe game , launching in tactical formations and weapon usage to defeat a particular opponent . One more.. I think the ground bomb mechanic in xevious is sorely overdue a remake!. Imagine the possibilities of throwing curve bombs at ground tanks for extra points etc!.
Shmup power! We are a minority, but it doesn't make us second class people! Shmup is beautiful.
Hell yeah!
The lesser genre happens often when it's not mainstream, and while I'm not super hardcore but play them much more often lately, I used to feel the same about shmups. You made the perfect comparison with fighting games, the difference being their voice is large enough to be heard.
I support everything you've said in this video. Shmups aren't throwaway games. The bare minimum I expect is atleast a stage select. I don't want a rom dump.
This so much. If companies are just going to take an old game, emulate it on a modern platform without adding features or touching up the graphics, then I won't buy it. Or worse still a port that is even worse than the original. Charging me money to have less fun? Get out of here.
These games are decades old. If there are bugs they should be fixed. If the genre has evolved to include quality of life changes, these ports should get them too. I'm not gonna buy this game and solely compare it to games of that era where there are many technical limitations. A modern port means a modern game. Those technical limitations don't exist anymore. So if it has room for improvement, which it definitely will, I want to see substantial improvement. This improvement is what differentiates a modern port from its original release. This improvement is what I'm willing to spend money on.
This is an ethical problem for me, especially when it comes to Square Enix's JRPGs. For example, the FF8 remaster is a complete joke. They touched up some models but the background and other models still retain their original low-res appearance. And they slapped on like $10 more for that. Meanwhile a fanmade mod of the original FF8 is way better than what Square Enix did with the remaster. In this case, why should I buy the remaster? In this case, they are doing a sloppy job just to earn a quick buck, which isn't very ethical. And if the companies aren't going to play fair, then neither will I. But the FF7 remake? Take my money!
For shmups, the argument supporting emulation is even stronger. Most shmup original releases are in arcades, which can't be found in many countries (my country's pitiful arcades have no shmups at all). The PCBs aren't intended to be bought by a mere consumer either. Sure, there may be console ports but those console ports may have their own fair share of issues, on top of now being very old and expensive to obtain. As such, the only proper way to play the game left is emulation. If companies want to port a shmup, they better make it better than what emulation can offer. Like having a proper, more customisable training mode, arcade accurate slowdown and an online leaderboard, which emulation cannot provide.
It also doesn't help when people are being so hypocritical. How can you reject sloppiness for XXX game but accept it for YYY game? Why would you be okay with the bare minimum or even an inferior port? If there can be room for more content, more features, better gameplay, why not? The kind of games I hate most aren't the ones that are just plain awful, it is the ones that have so much missed potential. Sword and Shield for example. I can think of a gazillion ways the Pokemon franchise could evolve with SwSh, but Gamefreak decided to double down on the absolute minimum for a Pokemon game and drop everything else.
We're definitely on the same vibe here. I agree completely. As a fan, these companies often put us in a crappy position where they give us a hint of what we are looking for, but then fan mods and that sort of thing completely outshine the official versions on offer. What's sort of liberating about shmups, in a way, is that -- due to their history of being only in the arcade (for the most part) -- this has forced even the most conservative console fans to recognize the importance and power of emulation. Actually what's really interesting ( and this is a topic I really want to dig into on a video) is that you'll notice how the standards for rereleases have plummeted over time. In the early days, rereleases always had extra modes and features, these were absolutely considered necessary (just look at Square's GBA and DS rereleases), but as time has gone on, the standard has dropped and dropped to where basically they can get away with re-releasing a game in a worse state than the original release, which is absured ha.
what's wrong with psykio ports? i played them. they seemed to me pretty decent. for instance, battle garegga has a lot of freezes on PS4.
I pretty much played RPGs back in the day. I mean I loved all kinds of games as well as shooters ( even though I sucked at them), but I had waaaay more time back then! Shooters, beat em ups, and platformers are what I play nowadays. Really been getting back into the shooter game lately and love it!! I just can’t seem to find time to play lengthy RPGs with a wife and two kids these days! Haha!
Yes exactly!
Comparing M2 Shot triggers to Final Fantasy is apples to oranges. Final Fantasy is just a much more successful series. The remake of a more obscure RPG game would struggle the same to find its audience as a niche Arcade Shmup and would have to be priced accordingly. Would have less people be concerned with quality. Conversely, I remember people being pretty stoked about the kind of treatment R-Type got in R-Type dimensions. But of course that's also because R-Type is a well-known Shmup series.
Emulation is an annoying hoop to jump trough. Many people (me included) will pay money just to not have to deal with emulators. There is nothing particularly wrong with that.
I think we should see the fact that Shmups are so easy to pick as an advantage rather than the downside. It's good that there is a mainstream audience who don't have to have deep knowledge of the genre to be casually interested in it.
We as a community should embrace this and pick those people up, gently point them towards quality releases. Casual interest can be easily transformed into an obsession. I think the M2 Shot Triggers series is fantastic for casual players. In fact, many of the added features show off how a quality port can greatly enhance a game for Casual Players over a straight port. Can't wait for Esperade to come out in the west. I think having this on the Switch will be huge.
That is a good point my dude, about casual interest being a way to get people hooked. There is no doubt that is true. Thing strange thing about my position is that I'm sort of playing a dual role right now with a razor thin wire I need to walk. On one hand, I'm trying to represent the hardcore perspective to casual players to help them understand the deeper aspects of the genre. However, on the other hand, I'm also trying to get people hooked and appeal to new and casual players, rather than being a cloistered elitist. It's tricky for sure and I think this upcoming Psikyo review (if I get the review), is going to be an immense challenge because of this dynamic. Thanks for watching and for the thoughtful comment!
I'd like to say this for gaming as a whole.
Yeah for sure, it definitely applies to what's going on overall as well.
I agree with all of this. Higher score for more features and training mode is obvious. As close as possible to the original game + extra bells and whistles. That being said...I just pre-ordered the two Psikyo new collections for the Switch (late to the Switch game; just got a Lite). Yeah this might come off as "casual" but I wanted them on the go (planning on getting Rade too). I mean if you are a casual but get carry them with you enough the genre might become...less casual to you(?). The idea of Pizzoots, 2 different versions, sounds good. Release the shitty version/port first and get some cash then polish it and re-release for the people who care (or fix/upgrade with patches if you're a cool company).
Edit: lag is that bad on these collections? Eep!
Yeah just to warn you, the lag is pretty horrible on the psikyo ports (7 frames on average!!!). How it is so bad I honestly don't know, but man it's brutal. The thing is that I don't necessarily blame anyone for buying the port, since there are not of ton of options for shmups. More like that, as a reviewer, I feel the need to let the devs know what the players are wanting, but I don't blame people at all for buying the ports or anything. This isn't a situation where the devs are being evil and nasty (like EA), just ignorant or unmotivated to deliver what we are looking for.
Tetris effect was a high priced game.
I wonder if game reviewers make fun of other game reviewers for not being casual enough.
absolutely!!! In their own weird way I think they do ha
Pretty sure some of the arcade archives had extra modes like thunder cross and.....i cant remember off the top of my head but sure is another few
That's interesting! For the AA releases that I own, like Blazing Star and Pulsestar, it's simply the rom. Props to them though if they are starting to add more stuff in. The AA releases are very close to being passable, they just need to throw away their weird "resume" save state system and add in proper savestates. If they do that and also chop out that extra frame of lag, they'd be solid. In this case, I would feel very comfortable recommending them because they have now become games that can be played in the long term for score and study, rather than just a temporary taster of the games they are offering.
@@TheElectricUnderground Oh dont get me wrong AA and shmups in general get messed over with increased lag and the sort but even though i own most of these games i still end up using shmup mame apart from my cave and a few other 360/ps3 releases. By the way LOVE the channel and when I finally pay me debt off end of this month I'll chuck some money you're way. 👍
I agree with you assessments, especially the psikyo switch ports (eww). What's your beef with DoDonpachi on the saturn?
Here :-)
ruclips.net/video/1jURSk4JVIQ/видео.html
Oh my god i thought i was the only one. Am experiencing the ultimate inferiority complex and social outcast-ism everyday just because i'm surrounded by people who play the usual normie ESport games. I don't have too many friends as a result. It reaches a point where i shoehorn shmups into a conversation with literally anyone. Thanks for this video. I really am running dry out of friends here and things to talk about. Love too that i'm homeschooled so less opportunities to let people know how awesome our culture is. Like I really want to share what we love. It's just so hard to.
I've definitely been there my dude. None of my friends care about shmups either (all my friends are into fighting games), that was one reason I started the podcast a few years ago because I wanted to talk to other people about the genre ha. Thanks for watching!!
As a 25 years fighting game tired of the genre, I agree, FGs pushed the competitive appeal, rivalries, hype moments, shmups are awesome but aren't as easy to follow visually
Video is 2 years past but I'd like to weigh in. Didn't realize this was an issue...
I am a casual. I haven't spent enough time in any STG to get gud but... BUT... I love the genre. The thought of buying one but it's bare bones is disappointing. Or worse yet, suffering input lag, unacceptable. The whole purpose of attaining a ported title, is said title is legit. It's praised or loved... has fans. And since shmups are typically short and replayed over n over to gain mastery, it's an amazing idea to have an arrange. Flushed out modes or things that augment the game or help new players. Makes said title have more replayability, or more accessability, especially if there's nothing like said title. It helps balance the worth vs other genres as they are generally longer.
Anyway... I'd gladly spend the cash for a shmup port that's handled with care. I want it to be the best it can be. I do NOT want a cheap version that is basically... an offense to the game or its fans. Just as fast food is an offense to the food they are trying to emulate. And my senses... gimme a REAL burger or I'll just hard pass
woha the psikyo collection has lag?? can you link me to the review?
It has ALOT of lag my dude. I've documented it here on my input lag index: electricunderground.io/shmup-input-lag-database/
The Psikyo releases have basically double the input lag of other shmups on the switch ... I honestly don't even know how they are so laggy.
im kinda feel the nowadays games especially rich story-based games are Disposable games. it really good when play the game while also following the story in it. but after the game story was 100% clear. the game are become boring. it seems like watching movie instead playing game. (but depending on the person who love watching movie several times)
not every games with rich/good story are Disposable. because it help by the gameplay and game system. for instance Warframe, the game system make me play and grind a lot of time to unlock arsenal or upgrade my arsnal with a lot of rescource requirement. TF2, the gameplay are fun and really need skill to play good, also grinding for material to create cosmetics/weapons. Bayonetta, despite the story is good. the gameplay are wicked! combo system/slowmotion are pretty cool to play again and again. thankfully Platinum games has provided angel slayer lost chapter for pro player where the level going up and up, no items and also we can't continue after died.
the another games with rich story that i think Disposable are the game that hasn't replayability gameplay. where the gameplay are "mediocore" some people are love play those games where they watch the cinematic cutscene. and then leave the game for a long time. i won't tell what game is that kind of that cuz its gonna be controversial.
STG however has a lot stuff that make it replayable and not displosable. first is the gameplay. STG gameplay is always intense and force us to move and think quick/reflect. not just that, the game system each STG games are so variative. Caves games has slowdown fire, combo system, c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ slowmotion, cancel based scoring, Hyper scoring, Rank, position based scoring, orientation change horizontal, h̶u̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶i̶r̶p̶l̶a̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶f̶o̶r̶m̶e̶r̶ bullet resist mode, Waifus. Touhou games has, Waifus, shot style selection, spellcards, cherry hyper, clock based performance, 1vs1 STG, ufo, ghost mode, checkpoint system, Freeze, Abillity card, and that's not even all of STG games. secondly Presentation. this is the aspect that help STG a lot to make player come back play again and again. Caves that has fantastic Visuals and yet the music are banging too. Touhou has aestethic Visuals and also Popular and Beautiful soundtrack. with those representation when it combine with the gameplay. the STG game are become extremely fun and replayable to me.
I really thankful to my dad that has introduce me to STG when i was 3. Raiden Trad on Genesis. he introduce me into the game that has so much beautiful thing i ever found on video games ever.
Yes exactly! The gameplay is to lame to repeat and the stories are too lame to justify the gameplay on repeat viewing
@@TheElectricUnderground agreed. i thinking of this since i play a lot story based games, just finished the game until i end the game story, not until i master the game. In STG however need to mastering the game in order to reach the true end of the game. Thanks to Cave that has created TLB. why i said the the true end comes by defeating the TLB 1CC is because in Cave Games we didn't get credit role when we use continue/didn't fight TLB . but however if we 1CC the entire game and beat the TLB there's credit roll at the end and it represent that you have Truly finished your game.(and sometimes we still play it again). this also happened on Crimzon Clover. man, after i beat Crimzon Clover arrange mode with 1CC and there's a message after credit roll like "Shooting game never die" that message makes me cry as STG fan like how unpopular the genre anymore and there's people still play that genre. and CloverTAC give us that message to keep playing the game so it makes the genre never die like how the message is.
While the M2 Shottriggers are the gold standard, ZeroDiv ports are the mid-standard to me. The rock-bottom standard is the pay to win free to play "arranges" of the shmup ports especially done by the South Koreans. ZeroDiv's Strikers 1945 III is too basic for its own good (no replays, no stage select, Stage 5+ you basically can't "Stage Practice"), but the phone "ports" have the game mangled with microtransactions and have the "true" patterns of the stage design locked behind the grind. Blasphemy :(
Heck, CAVE's smartphone port of Deathsmiles, while the Smartphone arrange in a hindsight, stupid, at least they still offer the original. No grinding for accessing the original's content too.
I would love to see more M2 Shottriggers treatment in the future, but ZeroDiv low effort ports still respect the games enough.
I can definitely feel where you are coming from, and with most other collections (even Arcade Archives, honestly), I would be able to at least say they are some cheap roms, it is what it is sort of thing. However, the thing I cannot let go of when it comes to these ports, in particular, is the input lag. The amount of lag is just too high, especially for games like Psikyo where the bullet speeds are very fast. I feel like it might be so unpleasant that it could sour players toward the genre, I'm not sure but something needs to change with the lag. Also, yeah I agree about phone ports, they are fun enough, but hopefully do not become the main focus, like Aka to Blue, which is almost tragic that it's stuck on phones. Thanks for watching my dude!
@9:00 Radiant Historia?
I would be nice on videos like this if we could get the name of the background footage game in the video description.
No problem I 'll add it in, thanks for watching!! :-D
Batsugun special......or normal
on a similar note it would be cool if you credited the music used in your podcast
Well.... the fact that bullet hell is the standard now, a lot of young gamers see all those colored bullets and shit and get intimidated. Hand-Eye coordination doesn't exsist for these young shits bro. Also, I'm glad u mentioned lag. MAME is the place to be.
X-D I'd agree with you except some of the strongest Western players right now, Kiwi and Moglar, are on the younger side and they are beasts! I'm actually really hopeful for the younger generation of players :-) I actually think the players in my age bracket are basically the people least interested in the genre, sadly. I'm hoping that can change though. Thanks for watching man!
@@TheElectricUnderground I feel u. I'm 38 now and always dug vertical shooters. I not too long ago discovered UNDER DEFEAT and I love it. Horizontal shooters are only good when they're GOOD. PROGEAR and ECO FIGHTERS are the two that come to mind right now.
On another video I was going to say NintendoLife actually has some really good shmup reviews... makes sense now hahaha.
I think the casual gaming's misunderstandings of our genre is our fault. If you want more people to play stg, we need to explain how to play the games and what makes them enjoyable. Because its not readily apparent. We must educate others on HOW to enjoy STGs, just like Tim Rogers teaches people HOW to enjoy dragon quest. I invite people to take a look at his video. He Clearly in Explicit details explains why he is a fanboy of the series.
ruclips.net/video/nw5HTmM_YyU/видео.html
We need to do the same with STG. Explain the appeal and advantages of STG. Explain why we put hours if time into these games. Tim Rogers single handedly change my view on my purchase of dragon quest. I was about to stop playing it before I watched his video. I was playing dragon quest like Etrian Odyssey... We need to help the normies...
I agree! Defintely a goal of my channel and content is to do just that.
Love Shmups! I beat R-Type 1 for the first time about a year ago
Shooters *ARE* video games. The reason we got flooded in the 80's and they got a bad name was the Japanese knew this. The whole scene and industry there was based on Space Invaders mania. Over here Pac-Man, Mario, and Zelda where much bigger hits in the long run. There was this call for variety in the US and it looked like the Japanese didn't get it. Funny enough, they had trouble getting the US into RPGs back then. The home consoles couldn't pull the arcade shooters off for the most part (outside a few titles) until the PC Engine and Sega Genesis came along. That made these games seem bullshit and disposable. That attitude was reinforced in the "we want more 3d even though 3d looks like shit and sucks" era where they were finally looking good on home systems and where undeniably spectacular in the arcade but critics (useless slime) where making light of even the greatest releases in the name of wanting something creative and completely new. The variety thing still. This attitude cemented forever this idea that no matter what, these games are automatically third rate and everything that could be done was already done. Of course, this vision of what innovation should mean (new games entirely) wasn't as totalistic in the Japanese market that was addicted to shooters in the arcade and rightfully saw them as the gold standard and main attraction of the arcade experience. I'd say capitulation to the term "Shmups" was the final nail in the coffin. I hate that word. I know people who see themselves as part of "gamer" culture figure there's no use fighting the tide, but you *can* actually never say it and nobody gets confused, not so far for me anyway. But then again I find trying to make a solitary activity like VGs a social scene is and has been poison in a number of ways. I am not part of any "community" in any way. That's ridiculous commie talk nonsense. In the mid eighties when you started hearing "Shoot 'em ups" I remember it turning my stomach, and I wasn't alone. I remember a guy getting red in the face saying that because he thought it was embarrassing to throw out there because...it sounds like fucking shit and demeans the entire enterprise in which we are engaged. I'll never stop playing and I'll be buried with my Sanwa lever, but I could give two shits about the way the world sees it. "Shmups" is basically admitting it's total trash. STG, Space Shooter, Shooter, Shooting game, Vertical/Horizontal Shooter...that's what I play. Never played a "Shmup" in my fucking life.
Edit: I love this channel, I don't mean to direct this at this channel at all. I get why people use these terms, I just have the advantage of being old and not caring about socializing so I get the benefit of not being in the hoards society anymore. I used to be a very social person involved in the music world and honestly I got all I needed for a lifetime in that regard back then. Too much, in fact. I don't have to talk like other people anymore unless I feel like it. 🎉
If a remake or re-release is worse or the same as the old version on original hardware or emulated then you've failed. That goes for all genres.
I was looking for your reviews on Nintendo life.... did they take them down? I cant find them
Here are the links:
www.nintendolife.com/reviews/nintendo-switch/psikyo_shooting_stars_alpha1
www.nintendolife.com/reviews/nintendo-switch/psikyo_shooting_stars_bravo
www.nintendolife.com/reviews/nintendo-switch/esp_ra_de_psi
www.nintendolife.com/reviews/nintendo-switch/darius_cozmic_collection
www.nintendolife.com/reviews/switch-eshop/sisters_royale_five_sisters_under_fire
@@TheElectricUnderground Oh wow, thanks that is helpful lol, I was looking at the youtube page not the website... silly me.
Thanks!
I heard that DVDS SOME AFTER 20 years get SOME Stalins by itswlf AND are BROKEN no Matter if u played THEM they seem to have a expiring date which sucks for collectors i guess ..
Anybody KNOW HOW LONG cartridges store THE games?
I KNOW dust etc. Can damage but IF IT were properly stored i MEAN......
TRIBVTES from GERMANY.
IF there were an arcade vr section of super nintendo Land Cockpit shmuppin that WOULD be my nr.1 Themenpark anywhere
What game are you playing in the background? it looks like dodonpachi, though i'm not sure.
Batsugun!!
@@TheElectricUnderground oh, thanks!
Yeah, this is that whole... if it happens to you, it's not a big deal, you're just exaggerating! If it happens to me, this is a serious issue, life is so unfair, everyone stop what you're doing!!
Ha no kidding!!
I'm a learning shmuper and got myself dodonpachi resurrection, any idea how to avoid getting caught by the turret rings in stage 5 ver 1.5 normal?
Oh yes watch some replays of the mode, you basically have to follow a specific route to avoid those punks
@@TheElectricUnderground Thanks I really appreciate it! I do agree with your point of view on how seriously shmups should be taken, arranges allow devs to reinterpret both how complex the level layout is and the soundtrack. The first thing that comes into my mind when someone says "arrange" is the eschatos soundtrack. Without Qute putting actual effort into remastering their game, where could you hope to find gems like the arrange version of "POINT OF NO RETURN" or "ACE'S BACK"?
I am indie game developer and making some shmup but not good yet,
So what you guys want from shmup game ?
I'll make a video about it!
you shouldn't treat any genre like that, RPG or shmup
What's the critical difference between official and unofficial emulation?
Gameplay wise, unofficial emulation is almost always better and more robust. Legality wise, official emulation is approved and sold by the game companies who created the original game (most of the time). Then there is the fun fact that many companies will attack unofficial emulation with one hand, and then resell the work of the unofficial emulators on the other (Nintendo for example).
@@TheElectricUnderground Yep I saw that. Call me a pirate but I don't see the reason to pay for poor remaster/port and would prefer MAME (for example) with ROMs. I honestly think that developer and publisher must deserve the right to take a money and not just rely on legal stuff to demand it.
Maybe need gacha like Azur Lane and Gothic Shoujo one.
Gonna cover gothic soon!
Sorry dude.. I know you're passion about your shmups.. but it all comes down to what makes more money for these big development companies, FF7 Remake/Halo/GTA/Doom/Elder Scrolls/Fallout/Zelda/Mario. No shmups has ever made that much money for their developers. You can yell and rant all you want, gaming is a business. I love shmups fyi, I bought so many on my Switch. But the reality is.. shmups genre just isn't at the top.
Why do you insist on calling them "shmups"? Sounds like you are new to them and don't understand that what you are saying is derogatory.