Unbuilt Tube Lines: The City and Southwark Subway
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2024
- A line nobody asked for and nobody got.
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Развлечения
Sounds like a Hyperloop for the 19th century - expensive and complicated tech for a tiny number of possible passengers, who would be risking their lives right next to a safer connection with much higher capacity.
Interesting stuff Jago, these “Stories from the Subway” as an addition to “Tales from the Tube”
There is actually an American film called Subway Stories which was a collection of short stories all by different directors.
I was waiting for "Hope you enjoyed that story from the subway, if you liked it, you could throw a sub my way"
"I am planning to talk in more depth about the tower subway (tunnel)..." 🤣
You talked about Tower Subway, with a Subway sandwich shop in the background. Nice touch....
Now i have to watch it again. 🙂
I noticed that. I doubt it was an accident :)
I came here to say that but was beaten to it. I actually think it WAS an accident in this case, as you only see a very small portion of the store. I think Jago would have framed the shot better had it been intentional
I was in an underground level of a college building (in Portland Oregon, USA) and saw a sign pointing to "SUBWAY." I was quite disappointed to find it was only a restaurant.
The Tower Subway was built using a Greathead shield. Barlow never actually constructed his own shield design, despite holding a patent, with others pending. James Henry Greathead was Barlow's pupil who adapted his master's idea of a cylindrical shield, actually built one and made it work. Greathead's shield is the design that was used for all the cast iron lined deep level Underground tunnels and modern tunnel boring machines owe a lot to that design.
If you live in London, don't forget to vote in the election tomorrow, whichever candidate you're intending to vote for! (And in the rest of the country as well, if there's an election on).
Bindependence Day is coming!
there is - besides London, there are mayoral elections in all the metropolitan counties
It’s a shame it’s now FPTP
Don't forget to take your voter ID.
Photo ID now needed - passport or driving license probably best, but other forms acceptable including photo travel passes etc. Expired passports etc are acceptable as long as you still look like the photo!
The engineer mentioned at the start... Peter Barlow would later go to Manchester and live with his father and step-mother Ken and Dierdre
Growing up, I thought tunnels under the river was a revolutionary idea but it still amazes that it has been a thing for a while now.
Kolkata metro rail had one one month before
@@ruprajsengupta2920 I doubt it as that metro only opened in 1984.
@@JohnyG29 what doubt metro opened in 1984,the underriver tunnel opened for passenger traffic on 15th March 2024.
@@ruprajsengupta2920What are you on about? There's been under-river tunnels in London for nearly 200 years
@@HarryWessex I was answering johnyG29 kolkata under river tunnel only on 15th March 2024,another underriver tunnel is there from 1930 not for trains but electricity cables,when did I say London didn't have underriver tunnels whereas the channel tunnel is well known
Such a venture was inevitably going to end up financially underwater.
And perhaps physically too, if any mishaps had happened if the venture proceeded along! 😂
I'm kind of sad that we can't ride on the Tower Subway (or The City and Southwark Subway) but it does seem very much that they were gagetbahn designs with a capacity that was more useless than the Heathrow Pods system.
It seems to me that there are a lot of people who obsess over "What something can do" when they should instead be thinking about "How many passengers the system can move per day". 🙄
I wonder if the Tower Subway and City and Southwark Subway tunnels (and maybe the abandoned King William Street tunnels) might have been more usefully have been connected into the Post Office Railway. The Royal Mail has stepped away from delivering letters by underground tunnels, but a fair amount of goods get delivered into London stores and if a much much smaller equivalent to the containers on container ships had been developed, we could have had containers for various businesses arriving at their local underground goods stations and then being delivered by reasonably small electrified delivery vehicles.
Would that have worked? Or would it have turned into a freight gagetbahn that could not keep up with demand? We will never know. (Not unless Jago can dig up the story of some crazy Victorian person who wanted to hook up all of London's shops to pneumatic delivery tubes.)
Thank you for introducing me to the concept "gadgetbahn". Why did my thoughts immediately go to the richest man in the world?
Honestly, glad that this never got built; the current underground, while not perfect, serves us much better than this ever could aspire to
If Barlow had more initiative,could he have built his subway,ala Glasgow,and make it cable operated?? As a parallel,the origin Brooklyn Bridge elevated line was cable operated,and later electrified,with connections to Brooklyn elevated lines! That bit was a contemporary with Barlow's scheme,so an alternative route for consideration! So many ways,of dealing with MONUMENTAL problems!! Thank you,Jago,as usual,you get into a couple of rabbit holes,that vary the diet,and imagination! Thank you 😇 😊!
I can't understand why you 'only' have 200+k subscribers - I can't resist your videos! I have to watch them as soon as they pop up. And I'm not even a particularly nerdy railway nerd!
Same here!
Peter Barlow, an unsung hero of public transportation
I imagine the tunnels could have been incorporated into a more modern electric railway, with intermediate stations, but the rebuild cost would have been massive.
There's a lot of would in your forest of questions. I'll get me coat.
Yes please!😂
Sir JH. Once again the speculation for our enjoyment. 👏
The Glasgow Subway started out as cable-hauled and was later upgraded to electric trains, though it has never been extended from its original route.
Only Jago could make an idea about a railway that never existed and make it so interesting and full of facts.
An extraordinarily timed video from you Jago - I've just booked our accommodation right in Southwark for our trip to London next year, not far from Borough station.
Is that wise? Don’t wanna ‘put you off’ or anything, y’know but … well, take it from one old muso’ to another, ‘try north of the river’.🤔😉. only kidding. It’s very nice. The Oval is just down the road. I saw us thrash your lot there once. Bloody long time ago, tho’.😅✌️
@@razzle1964 I’m a “southsider” myself in Brisbane so I’m hoping to feel right at home.
Interesting on how things could of gone instead of how they actually worked out!!! Cheerio Jago 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Fascinating twists and turns as usual.
Fantastic video sir, I'm very interested in this second subway!
The Thames and absurd levels of polution!! No change there!
Great tale from the Tube 🫶
Oh Jago, dear Jago!!
Nice content and waiting for your in-depth Tower subway video!
Great detail here, Jago! Thanks for
What, no Charles Tyson Yerkes? Surely some mistake.
Don't know about you, but I'm getting Yerkes withdrawal symptoms 😂😂😂
The City & South London was originally cable hauled but was converted to electricity before opening. Maybe the Southwark & City would have been the same. With a slightly different alignment we would have ended up with a very similar tube map to-day except there would not have been any need to abandon the original line.
I have been down and through Tower Subway on a number of occasions, although not for a few years now. Let me know if you would like any detail for the upcoming video on what it is like these days down there (clue: rusty and damp).
Miscreants from the house of lords were punished the same way . the Peers would be dropped into the Thames and allowed to sink under their own weight
Big ideas, little budgets... or little faith >sips tea
fantastic informative and a good listen the b roll was smashing xx
Another interesting video ! My question is: When will Mr.Hazard run out of ideas ? Keep them coming !
Very interesting, also the Connaught tunnel under one of the London Docks is worth a video also.
How do you do it Jago, always coming up with amazing detailed videos that i can't stop watching
Now I also know that there's a giant new Iceland next to the Brixton underground station. Thanks.
Peter Barlow?? Thought that was a character in Coronation Street
I'm kind of disapointed that Jago didn't make a Coronation Street joke. 🤪
The fact he was able to invent a tunnel shield in the 1860s shows how long that soap has been on
The proposal may not be practical, but the video is!
Great again JH
Interesting video, but the problem with engineers is that they always want to work within the limits of the engineering. What they really needed was a mustachio'd shyster that's only in it for the money. Then things get built. 😁
I'd like to cross the Thames through the Tower Subway but I understand that it's only used for cables and utilities these days and access is restricted to maintenance staff. The north entrance was in the video. I had a look for the south entrance a few years ago and concluded it is now from an anonymous looking shed-like building tucked away off Tooley Street.
Much more practical to experience the Greenwich foot tunnel, which is probably longer, too.
Interesting video
The City and Southwark subway WAS built! But the name was changed to the City and South London and it was extended first to the south and later the north.
I'm guessing if the City and Southwark was built and failed there would have been more subsurface lines built. Or maybe (if construction was delayed enough) we would have deep level lines with a much larger loading gauge?
You should get a job narrating Thomas episodes, Mr Hazzard! "But that's another story..."
Otherwise, wonderful work as always!!!
"You are the troublesome trucks to my runaway train"
I would love to narrate Thomas the Tank Engine.
The poor Blue Eyed Maid
Nice info
I need a video on why Southwark is called the Borough when it is only a borough.
Yes, I did enjoy today's video. If nothing else, there were some more night scenes.
Thank you!
this pops up and todays MiniMetro challenge is London 1960
I'm guessing that they wouldnt have followed the route. The subway's tunnels might have been a bit to small. Reboring them might have been a bit of a risk too. Still, makes you wonder.
I'm wondering if the planned southern terminus was St George's Cathedral, which is to the west of St George's Church on St Georges Road. Is this a possibility?
Modern tunnelling shields are almost robotic, I wonder if they may become totally remote controlled, as in no one guiding them on site, like modern ones?
תודה!
And thank you!
What no MR Y
Because UERL later took over the successor of the City and South London Railway.
Looking up from my keyboard @0:59, I almost thought that Mr Y had returned. I miss tales of his villainy.
Good morning Jago
I was genuinely expecting a quick and easy pun to follow the 'pie in the sky'' experimental concept comment. I think i'm still waiting tbh, but have no idea how to casually conflate tunneling and pie in the sky??? Although it did make me wonder if the Underground is responsible for any bog standard quips and puns today?
‘Two stops short of Barking’ is a legit phrase. Meant to imply someone is close to madness. Later, Tory Cabinet members would refer to Thatcher as ‘Daggers’ … meaning ‘Dagenham’ … which is, I believe, at least three stops PAST Barking.🤔😉✌️
@@razzle1964 Thanks man, there must be plenty more😀
@@MrTryxxter Having wracked my brain for some others I’m not so sure, now! A better ‘mind game’ might be to recall songs with station names in them (Marillion’s ‘Kayleigh’ references Belsize Park, for example).🤔😉✌️
@@MrTryxxter Ian Dury’s ‘Plaistow Patricia’ …
@@razzle1964 Oh, there's also a mention of Waterloo station in the Kinks' Waterloo Sunset. That's my bank holiday ruined now thinking of more songs with tube references 🙂
Imagine if the Waterloo and City Line was to extend to Southwark instead of Waterloo and to extend further south to Clapham Junction and as far as Wimbledon.
Cable with passing loop at London Bridge ?
Sounds more like a horizontal lift/elevator than a train...
The chap in the tower subway appears to be using a mobile phone?
Time traveller!
He did well to get a signal. He could be from a future time where you CAN get a signal in a tunnel! But who would he be talking to in those days?
It's a great disgrace that human progress is limited by the blinkered acquisitiveness of the money-havers.
You scratched the pedant in me( easily done). What exactly IS a 'train'?
Wkipedia (therefore it must be true) says that the word comes from the "Old French trahiner, from Latin trahere, "to pull, to draw"". So, technically something (anything?) that's pulled or drawn along - for instance a bridal train. But then Wikipedia (therefore it must be true) muddies the waters completely by going on to define a 'train' as "a series of connected vehicles that run along a railway track and transport people or freight".
So now, it is something that is pulled (or pushed), but ALSO has to consist of connected vehicles. The poor old Tower Subway was briefly a train, but now it isn't - it having only one coach.
But then, all those diesel and steam railcars of days of yore (typically just one carriage) were also NOT trains! "The train now arriving at platform 1 of this tiny, out-of-the-way, branch line station, that is no longer viable because it has virtually no passengers, is NOT a train."
The City and Brixton couldn’t raise the money and Charles Tyson Yerkes wasn’t there to buy it up and build it?
Some projects are really never meant to happen :(
The line that never was it seems
Talking *In Depth* about a Subway? (2:00).......... Hmmmmmmm...... You made a pun and you didn't realise you had done so!
I lived in Lonfon from 1986 to 1988. snd eould never dream using the Tube a motorbike was far wuivker snd I could use it gor despatch riding between Aircraft contracts. which tube line do Londoners call The Drain?
The Waterloo & City Line
1) So, in real terms, you can barely be considered as have lived in London
2) You can barely spell
@@NCR5309I've lived in London since 1981, never ridden a motorbike, dream about the Tube, travel on it nearly every day and attribute any misspellings to the auto-correct feature on my phone. Do I qualify?
@@johnm2012 obviously , you’ve lived there more than two minutes and use the network - as opposed to dismissing
Here to prevent *FIRST* comments (by being first)
first
🥇
Hooray!
1:48 Subliminal?