At one point, I was a huge nonbeliever in EV’s. After a test drive, this led to me purchase a lightning XLT for my wife back in November. Then after finding excuses to borrow her Lightning on quick trips, and leaving my diesel in the garage more and more, I became a huge fan. So on January 4th of this year, I traded my diesel, and got a second Lightning XLT. I LOVE THESE TRUCKS. You get the comfort of a Cadillac, the speed of a sports car, and the luxury of a full size truck. To me, it’s the best vehicle on the planet. As far as range, it’s not as bad as people would think. Having now taken 3 Vegas trips from California, at temps between 25 and 50 degrees, on roads as hilly as they come (includes mountain pass), range has been a non issue. A quick stop in Baker, bathroom break, a few snacks, and maybe an extra 5 minutes when back to your vehicle, you’re good to go. My two trucks are the Standard Range vehicles, and all has been good. Those in denial, as I once was, just take a few minutes out of your day, and take a test drive. These vehicles are amazing.
@@3094usmc ehh, the payments may be a bit higher, but not paying for fuel and oil changes, it balances out the same as making standard car payments. And as a plus, at least for Californian’s, you get a significant discount on your KWh rates. I had gone from $0.42 per KWh, down to $0.23 per KWh - between the hours of 10pm through to 4pm the following day. So considering the fuel savings, oil changes, and Utility rates, you really find yourself ahead, when comparing the costs of financing gas and diesel vehicles.
I really like the Lightning. The F-150 already had some great feature options, and Ford did a really nice job on the Lightning. I just got a Lightning myself and it's great. I hope it continues to serve you well for many years.
As long as the government did not shove this choice down your throat, more power to you. Those who want EV should buy EV. Those who don't shoul dhave freedom of choice, but are being served ultimatums instead.
Tom, thanks the great video. Honest content without the clickbait. Our temps here were -15 in the high mountains of Colorado the last week and my Lightening stays outside. I had no issues with range or running my truck IF you precondition and follow the recommendations. Cold is a problem for ICE vehicles too...I'm old enough to remember a time when you had block heaters or dipstick oil heaters. EVs are not ICE and you need to adapt your driving and habits to suit the technology.
Tom, I think you have the best EV related videos. They are the most balanced and most trustworthy I've seen on RUclips. You are the only one that presents the EVs very objectively. Also I like the effort you make to educate because there is so much nonsense out there.
Great tips, thanks. I plug in my Model 3 every night in cold weather, even though I park in a garage. Also on cold days, I precondition before leaving though the garage never gets below freezing, even when -15 outside. The main reason is to warm up the traction battery so that regenerative braking can be used instead of the friction brakes. Most EVs can't regen into a cold battery.
We had high temps around -12F (wind chill was -39F) last weekend in MN, and my lightning was parked outside in a hotel parking lot- but it was plugged into a charger. We drove 95 miles home that day, and we made it with only about 20 miles left- from 100% battery (sr battery). We remote started it- but that doesn’t precondition it. I wish there was a precondition now option. But at home it stays in my heated garage charging overnight, so that trip from the hotel to back home was my first real cold weather test.
Sounds like there needs to be a class given before anyone buys an EV. I read my manual, especially about the battery. I also watched videos about the pros and cons. I then purchased a 2014 Leaf with the lizard battery. I didn't sign up for convenience, I signed up for an adventure. Thanks for the reminder.
Tom, I have a 2023 XLT Lightning. I have a ton of data on extreme use case scenario’s, from towing at max load to camping with a max GVWR cabover camper in the mountains at freezing temps, and finally a few hundred miles of driving in the mountains, on dirt roads, over passes in deep snow (12 inches +) and paved road compact snow and black ice during 12 degree temps. Please feel free to reach out if you need more stories and experience. The bottom line is that if you know how to use the tool, it works better than the ICE versions in all conditions and will not disappoint.
Thanks, Tom. We have an Ioniq 6 and R1T but only one charger so only one EV is plugged in at night. So far so good. We live in North Carolina. Our low was 14 degrees at night.
Excellent refresher course, Tom! I really appreciate Ford’s approach to consumer education. I’m glad people are converting to EVs, but I wish they would do their homework-especially before complaining. Thank youfor factual info rather than click bait titles and sensationalist content.
Thanks to this video, after 6 months of EV ownership I FINALLY understand the best use cases for battery pre-conditioning. (NOT so important for daily “drives around town.”)
I've had my F150 Lightning since 11/6 and I absolutely love it. The most comfortable truck I've ever driven. As far as winter driving, the only time I really see an issue is when it's really cold like -12F. I drove into work which is a 25 mile trip at 5AM and -12F and I preconditioned the battery at 80% charge and my truck showed a range of 203 miles. By the time I got about 5 miles away from my home that 203 turned into 168. And I had the heat turned up and you absolutely need to use the max defrost or the windows will start to freeze up. I live in Northern Colorado. But those temps stuck around for only a week and now I'm back up into the 20-40F temps again. And at those temps, the drop in range is rather minimal.
Tom, I would love to hear you address The recent layoffs from Ford on the F150 lightning production line. And the fact that they have hired 900 more employees for their gas powered trucks. Sadly, I feel like Ford and GM are abandoning, or perhaps taking a long pause on their EV investments. They just seem very timid as if they understand they will never catch up to Tesla or BYD. Would love to hear your take on it .
My big winter tip is pay attention to where you park in your driveway, the snow/ice buildup that melted & slid off my solar panels fell onto my driveway, I leave for work at 9pm & get home 7 am as I’m shoveling it away I realize how hard & heavy it is & how it was only 4-6” from my fronk, had I pulled in 4-6” closer I’d have some pretty good damage to my truck, I got lucky but now I know & now you know
Hi Tom. Thanks for telling people the very informative point that preconditioning in cold weather is such a good way to minimize the effects of cold. Rivian added the that functionality in their app to precondition at a certain time before driving and it really makes a difference. Not only does the battery get heated, you can condition the inside for a certain temperature, seat heating and steering wheel heating, using the home L2 charger so it still will keep your state of charge at the level you want as you exit on your daily drive or trip.
Great video and loved all parts the second time, as stated, timing is relevant. I love my Lightning, but sure wish Ford would push out updates. Recall letting stated update for BMS would be in Nov. The end of Jan and no update. I still don't have the battery SOC update either. Guess i need to take it to Ford. Sure doesn't compare well to Tesla.
Second winter in an EV here it's honestly better for me than a gas car. I've no concern that it won't start, I don't have to fuel up in the cold, my vehicle is warm when I'm supposed to leave, and the "range losses" just don't matter as I charge at home and my daily drive is less than half of my range on my normal days. On days I go further I almost never have to charge outside of the house anyway.
The Ford Pass app in the video is different from the one i use with my Mach-E. To get to charger settings, I have to click in "Preferred Times" first, then click "Use preferred charge settings" to actually bring me to the settings menu. I'm sure it's just a case of the video showing a previous of the app. Nonetheless, great video Tom!
Heat pump efficiency is dependant on temperature. Heat pumps for houses are often set to operate down to 30 degF then switch to alternate heating, like natural gas, because the heat pump costs more for electricity than gas heating. I haven't used my Tesla Y below 20 degF yet. I expect colder temps will cost me a lot of range and will be using mostly seat heating when it is really cold.
23:40 "When a battery gets cold, it has less space in it to store its power?" Not sure what he is trying to say here but when a battery is cold it is harder for it to deliver and accept energy without damaging it. It still has the same amount of energy in it. In addition to this reality, you have to spend additional energy raising the temperature of the battery pack itself and the cabin. This is it. This covers what you need to know about batteries in the cold.
Every car I've driven, if I have enough heat to keep the windows clear, the cabing will usually be more than warm enough, I only really use the heated seats if I'm already cold before getting in, like if I had to shovel or clear a lot of snow off the vehicle, and only use it for 5 min, the heated steering wheel is great tough.
Ford really needs to have the option to allow the battery to warm perhaps when cabin heat is on. Having the be plugged in to warm the battery doesn’t get the job done.
Preconditioning uses energy, but it also allows for regen, so you could end up net positive unless you’re getting right onto the freeway. Regen is limited on cold battery
You really need to be plugged in when you're preconditioning the battery, or it's not really helping the range, because you're using the energy for precon that could be used for propulsion.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I agree about preconditioning while plugged in, but either way, it can be worth the energy expenditure in the form of regen. The Model S warms the battery by default for this reason (at least it did on my 2014). It also had a “range mode” which turned the battery warmer off. The idea was you would likely be driving on the highway in range mode and warming the battery for regen is then wasteful. So, Tesla believes that warming the battery just for regen is worth it, even if pulling from the battery for it.
Hi Tom you are Always making good informative videos and even though winter range has been mentioned on your earlier videos, it’s great that you make a new one on a yearly basis so that viewers are up to date. Btw, is it even worth preconditioning if you are plugged in an interior heated garage? I feel that the batteries won’t be warming up as much as if it were outside. Your thoughts?
It was inside the garage, but not heated. That said, the garage is probably 20 degrees warmer than it is outside. But if it was charging outside, the preconditioning would have just turned on earlier to get the batteries warm by the departure time.
Tom - I have a LFP M3 and now the Std Range XLT. Just experienced the Polar Vortex here in Chicago. Repetitive question - How often to put the vehicle on the charger and do you recommend 80, 85, or 90% weekly charges? Out Spec was stating they like to charge less often, taking the EV down to 20 to 30% before recharge?
Bare minimum people need to plug in their EVs every night in cold weather so the battery stays warm. Full preconditioning isn't always necessary, but plugging in is very important. If you park outside unplugged the battery can get extremely cold which causes big problems with power limits (car can't accelerate), range, charging, and sometimes heat. That was a big factor in Chicago recently, all these rideshare cars were parked outside unplugged so the battery was too cold to charge. So they had to spend the first hour on the DC charger heating their battery before the actual charging started. Your Level 2 charger is like a block heater for your battery, you need to keep it warm enough to function.
Thinking beyond the extreme colds. I have been thinking a lot about whether or not the battery preconditioning is a net energy savings in any condition, depending on distance you'll be traveling. It could easily be, if the car runs more efficiently on a HOT battery, which the BMW i4 has proven to do. Drivers report improved efficiency after 1/2 hour of driving even in the summer. Our sales rep saw that we were EV nerds when we bought our car, and he noted that BMW had told them that preconditioning before every drive is most efficient, which we thought sounded like erroneous advice. Clearly, preconditioning for 1/2 hour on shore power, and then driving 2 miles, wouldn't net energy savings. But it begs the question, how much effect does a hot battery have on vehicle efficiency and how do we test for the break even point with various trip sizes on various designs, so folks who want to optimize energy savings, lower emissions, make the best use of resources and keep batteries lasting longer. Ryan on Out of Spec recently noted that they've not yet seen an upper temperature that reduced range when range testing. Intuition and understanding that HVAC has a cost, tells us that 95 or 100 degree driving will be less efficient, but he said, surprisingly they haven't seen that when testing. Has the industry been underselling the benefits of a hot battery, vs. 70 degrees that we've been told is optimal for health. Obviously, telling the masses they NEED to precondition batteries before every trip would stall the transition away from fossils, so I guess this is about understanding it better and over time finding ways to perhaps automate this for people who make the same drive every day.
Glad to hear that your voice is back. It's getting close to February and hopefully that means Tesla opening up Super Chargers (Not just Magic chargers). We want to know as soon as you know anything!
Tom some new info learned: Ford has conservative #'s and may be adjusted up. More over the air software updates with enhanced features. Take advantage of the regenerative braking coach feature. Questions about Alaska: Charging indoor or outdoor? Average daily driving range? As cold weather reduced range may not be an issue. Same for 10" of snow, relative to tire/rim size and vehicle road clearance. Not mentioned are the number of available chargers and distance to them from his home/work. How much traffic or delayed winter driving does he experience?
Tom, if you are traveling in the cold, and your EV is parked outside your hotel (not plugged in), does it make sense to precondition it before leaving in the morning? That uses a lot of power, but your battery is warm as you start your trip.
My guess is the reason that they want you to turn the temp down while DC fast charging is prioritize AC/heat capacity for the battery thermal management
Thanks for this video it explains a lot of what I’ve seen in my charging info. They show the preconditioning and how to set the charge level, I noticed on the weekend setting it uses the same charge level set for weekdays. Is there a way of changing the charge level differently between weekdays and weekend? And if not what’s the propose of the two beside just time?
Those Blizzaks are the main reason his Lightning drives so well in the snow. My stock A/T tire is NOT great. I'd rather have the all seasons. That being said, it's still good enough when driving carefully.
Around the 17 mark you were talking about "preconditioning", the problem I have with your response is that the preconditioning is tied to the Departure time setting. This to me is an issue that they need to deal with. I also just hit the button and start the car but I don't always remember to do it in time and so the departure time is convenient for like getting up and going to work. This is why I wish there was a button to hit that said "precondition". Why make a feature that most would use to get their car ready for a time they know they want to get going and either cool or heat the car and that also be tied to preconditioning when they don't need the latter?
i am hoping since we are in the early age of EVs, some manufacturer or somebody will figure out a way with better tech/ or automatic way of keeping the battery on absolute optimal temperature without the need for the "end user" to manually set pre-conditioning. Eventually a foolproof or a standalone energy source other than the main battery itself wouldn't be used for heating.. or maybe a type of battery that is not affected too much by super cold weather.
At 23:24 in this video Darren Palmer say nobody reads the manual anymore. I have a major issue with my 2023 XLT lightning. It will not charge, getting a charging fault error. the vehicle suggest I check the manual. There is no info in the manual about this problem. So Darren I do check manuals. So far after 5000 miles I am very concerned that I got a LEMON. I preordered this vehicle in 2021 waited 2 years and paid more than I would have liked $65,000.00 with DE tax dealer fee and warranty $74,000.00 out the door. The dealer is Boulevard Ford Lewes DE. Maybe I should have bought a TESLA.
My neighbor bought a lucid thinking that charging using 120V would be fine. I got a call from him asking me why was his EV charging super very low. I had to educate him EV101 then had my friend install a 240V, 50A outlet to charge his EV. He really thought driving an EV was just like a gas car. In addition to folks like him, some people also depend on DC fast charging always, not understanding battery preconditioning, poor planning, impatience and used cases. Unless you have dedicated parking space with 240V outlet, stick to phev for now.
Plugin Hybrids do not have the preconditioning features right? I have never seen it at least for my Crosstrek PHEV. I guess it is more for full EVs that fast charge? I always drive my car in full EV to the charger in all seasons. I assumed that this warms the battery up through usage and sort of preconditions it? I live in Montreal and deal with -30 degree Celcius temps failrly often. Also, just to note, I have to charge at public chargers as I live in a condo tower so I am always looking for ways to properly care for my vehicle when charging since we deal with cold weather for many months up here.
As per your recommendation, we have an amazing e evse 15-30. Has worked great in our garage’s drier outlet. The company no longer is making it. What else are you recommending today for a 15-30 outlet?
What if I do not have a garage or a private driveway to charge overnight? This solution does not address a major road block to BEV ownership, winter or summer!
Can i precondition the lightning using a L2 charger with 10 amps or do I need more amps I pull power from my solar batteries and inverter so im trying to put the least amount of strain on my solar system as I can
Do you think using level 1 charging (plug in all times when not in use)will benefit the battery in cold weather or any weather if you don’t drive over 50 miles / day? Some days no miles. It seems that the range is greater.
Yes, definitely. But how much it helps will depend on how much you drive and how efficient your EV is. For instance, it would be very helpful for my Chevy Bolt EV, because it gets 4 miles per kWh. But my F-150 Lightning gets less than 2 miles per KWh in the winter, so level 1 charging isn't as effective as it would be for the Bolt.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I have a Cadillac LYRIQ. It gets about 3 -4 miles per hour. If I don’t get to 80% on day one mostly the next day. The cost is the same whenever I charge. Thanks.
At the 12:30 mark you begin addressing number 5, this is an important one. Do you know if the the vehicle charge rate is reduced by the amount of the heater draw or dose the BMS just call for more power, presumably you spend very little time at the chargers max rate. I would think that when charging at a 150KW station if the BMS has throttled the battery exception rate to 120KW and the heater is consuming 5 KW than a good charger would deliver 125KW? No?
I am a numbers guy. What is cold, what is hot? In Florida cold is 60 degrees and hot is 90+ degrees. What temperatures do one need to precondition the battery? Thanks
Unfortunately, this guide doesn't address the biggest issue: with so many new EV drivers not having access to overnight home charging, what options do they have, esp. for those that live in the extreme winter Climates?
They work fine in these climates, but I'd argue the convenience of a warm cabin and battery at departure are lost. Then again, if one can't charge at home or work, the primary convenience is lost with BEVs and PHEVs. Infrastructure build up is inevitable for those without a garage or attached driveway. Charging at parking structures and street parking will expand.
Independent auto journalists have cold tested every EV and noted the 30 to 40 percent drop in range in cold weather. None of them sponsored by an EV charger company like you. The items you list to extend cold range for the EVs are ideal situations, not for many people without a garage or overnight charging. You live in a charger-rich area of the country unlike most people. EV sales are dropping because real people are finding out the shortcomings. Maybe in 10 to 15 years with far more charging stations and better battery technology they will be more practical but that time is not now for most.
Elon Musk promised full self driving cars by 2020. Tesla started charging $8,000 for the full self driving option. Tesla told everyone if they purchased a Tesla, they would be able to make up to $30,000 a year in passive income by using their Tesla as a self-driving Uber/Lyft vehicle.
EV's are amazing, but it's incredibly stressful that one has to have a list of 8 recommendations for EV's. Just need bigger battery packs and absolutely need more infrastructure for people to convert to EV's. As the Ford guy said you have to realize what you got yourself into. Have to realize the good and bad of EV's at the current state of these small battery packs and no infrastructure in most rural towns.
If only all EVs made it clear how to precondition the battery and also show that battery preconditioning is active. Really, battery pack average temperature needs to be a dashboard value shown to driver, as well as battery conditioning status.
@@EpicDrew15 true, but Leaf has no active thermal management, so data is nice to have, but without preconditioning you can’t manually warm the pack or cool pack when too hot.
Those Chicago Uber drivers won't understand any of this. Uber rents drivers a Tesla for $500 a week. I guess a Tesla commands a higher Uber black fare for the driver. They live in apartments and don't have a home charger.
There's definitely an argument for that. However, even with reduced range, most EV still go at least 200 miles between charges, and that's a week of driving for many people.
Not typically until it's above 97%-98% With some cars it charges at the full rate all the way to 100% if there's a large buffer at the top end of the battery.
I charge my trucks on level 2 at home daily. The charging speed has remained consistent all the way to 100% (which I’ll do for long trips). The Ford Lightning’s have a buffer, which helps. The Standard range battery (which are the two I own) has an allowable charging capability of 98KWh. But the actual battery size is 107.6KWh. So in a sense, while the gauge reads 100%, your battery is technically sitting just shy of 92%. Which having this kind of buffer is ideal, knowing Ford has ensured you cannot destroy your battery by overcharging .
@@lemongavine Yes, i was just think of an extra layer with a small air gap between the battery and added plate so the battery case doesn't get he full force of cold air
It's sad when things regress. Cars/trucks have had a long road to becoming appliances. They just work. With EVs, you need to reset your life to revolve around the car and its quirks. And it's so much worse if you're not a millionaire and don't own a house.
That statement is incredibly detached from reality. Charge at home and the vehicle is the easiest appliance to live with. Funny enough, they are legitimately appliances, sharing the same grid as the washer and dryer. Takes me 5 seconds to charge at home, plug in and live life at home.
DIEsel is nicht gut! Not good. Why would anyone even suggest the nastiest fuel DIEsel over the nasty gasoline ⛽️ 😒. Keep driving electric trucks and they will improve every 6 months to a year as the batteries improve. DIEsel is killing up. Start one up in a closed garage and have lunch with the engine running and see if you can finish your meal. That will prove to you nicht gut!
I really needed to see this episode. I’m really leaning toward a lightening these days. Got a VERY early cybertruck order number, but honestly just getting sick of Elon and it’s really effecting my perspective on what’s important to me. When I saw this exec state that they are NOT giving up on the Lightening, I really perked up. I’m excited.
At one point, I was a huge nonbeliever in EV’s. After a test drive, this led to me purchase a lightning XLT for my wife back in November. Then after finding excuses to borrow her Lightning on quick trips, and leaving my diesel in the garage more and more, I became a huge fan. So on January 4th of this year, I traded my diesel, and got a second Lightning XLT. I LOVE THESE TRUCKS. You get the comfort of a Cadillac, the speed of a sports car, and the luxury of a full size truck. To me, it’s the best vehicle on the planet.
As far as range, it’s not as bad as people would think. Having now taken 3 Vegas trips from California, at temps between 25 and 50 degrees, on roads as hilly as they come (includes mountain pass), range has been a non issue. A quick stop in Baker, bathroom break, a few snacks, and maybe an extra 5 minutes when back to your vehicle, you’re good to go.
My two trucks are the Standard Range vehicles, and all has been good.
Those in denial, as I once was, just take a few minutes out of your day, and take a test drive. These vehicles are amazing.
Well said. Completely agree. Best truck I've owned hands down.
lol honeymoon stage or must make a very good living. At least you are enjoying ir
@@3094usmc ehh, the payments may be a bit higher, but not paying for fuel and oil changes, it balances out the same as making standard car payments.
And as a plus, at least for Californian’s, you get a significant discount on your KWh rates. I had gone from $0.42 per KWh, down to $0.23 per KWh - between the hours of 10pm through to 4pm the following day.
So considering the fuel savings, oil changes, and Utility rates, you really find yourself ahead, when comparing the costs of financing gas and diesel vehicles.
I really like the Lightning. The F-150 already had some great feature options, and Ford did a really nice job on the Lightning. I just got a Lightning myself and it's great. I hope it continues to serve you well for many years.
As long as the government did not shove this choice down your throat, more power to you. Those who want EV should buy EV. Those who don't shoul dhave freedom of choice, but are being served ultimatums instead.
Tom, thanks the great video. Honest content without the clickbait. Our temps here were -15 in the high mountains of Colorado the last week and my Lightening stays outside. I had no issues with range or running my truck IF you precondition and follow the recommendations. Cold is a problem for ICE vehicles too...I'm old enough to remember a time when you had block heaters or dipstick oil heaters. EVs are not ICE and you need to adapt your driving and habits to suit the technology.
Tom, I think you have the best EV related videos. They are the most balanced and most trustworthy I've seen on RUclips. You are the only one that presents the EVs very objectively. Also I like the effort you make to educate because there is so much nonsense out there.
Thank you!
Great tips, thanks. I plug in my Model 3 every night in cold weather, even though I park in a garage.
Also on cold days, I precondition before leaving though the garage never gets below freezing, even when -15 outside. The main reason is to warm up the traction battery so that regenerative braking can be used instead of the friction brakes. Most EVs can't regen into a cold battery.
thank you kind sir for staying away from the clickbait style titles
We had high temps around -12F (wind chill was -39F) last weekend in MN, and my lightning was parked outside in a hotel parking lot- but it was plugged into a charger. We drove 95 miles home that day, and we made it with only about 20 miles left- from 100% battery (sr battery). We remote started it- but that doesn’t precondition it. I wish there was a precondition now option. But at home it stays in my heated garage charging overnight, so that trip from the hotel to back home was my first real cold weather test.
Sounds like there needs to be a class given before anyone buys an EV. I read my manual, especially about the battery.
I also watched videos about the pros and cons. I then purchased a 2014 Leaf with the lizard battery. I didn't sign up for convenience, I signed up for an adventure.
Thanks for the reminder.
Tom, I have a 2023 XLT Lightning. I have a ton of data on extreme use case scenario’s, from towing at max load to camping with a max GVWR cabover camper in the mountains at freezing temps, and finally a few hundred miles of driving in the mountains, on dirt roads, over passes in deep snow (12 inches +) and paved road compact snow and black ice during 12 degree temps.
Please feel free to reach out if you need more stories and experience.
The bottom line is that if you know how to use the tool, it works better than the ICE versions in all conditions and will not disappoint.
Thanks, Tom. We have an Ioniq 6 and R1T but only one charger so only one EV is plugged in at night. So far so good. We live in North Carolina. Our low was 14 degrees at night.
Thanks for all you do. I picked my level two charger from your reviews.
Excellent refresher course, Tom! I really appreciate Ford’s approach to consumer education. I’m glad people are converting to EVs, but I wish they would do their homework-especially before complaining. Thank youfor factual info rather than click bait titles and sensationalist content.
Thank You for supporting Electric Vehicles and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
Thanks to this video, after 6 months of EV ownership I FINALLY understand the best use cases for battery pre-conditioning. (NOT so important for daily “drives around town.”)
I've had my F150 Lightning since 11/6 and I absolutely love it. The most comfortable truck I've ever driven. As far as winter driving, the only time I really see an issue is when it's really cold like -12F. I drove into work which is a 25 mile trip at 5AM and -12F and I preconditioned the battery at 80% charge and my truck showed a range of 203 miles. By the time I got about 5 miles away from my home that 203 turned into 168. And I had the heat turned up and you absolutely need to use the max defrost or the windows will start to freeze up. I live in Northern Colorado. But those temps stuck around for only a week and now I'm back up into the 20-40F temps again. And at those temps, the drop in range is rather minimal.
I still love my diesel heater install my range is about 80% rather than 50% summer range
Tom, I would love to hear you address The recent layoffs from Ford on the F150 lightning production line. And the fact that they have hired 900 more employees for their gas powered trucks. Sadly, I feel like Ford and GM are abandoning, or perhaps taking a long pause on their EV investments. They just seem very timid as if they understand they will never catch up to Tesla or BYD. Would love to hear your take on it .
My big winter tip is pay attention to where you park in your driveway, the snow/ice buildup that melted & slid off my solar panels fell onto my driveway, I leave for work at 9pm & get home 7 am as I’m shoveling it away I realize how hard & heavy it is & how it was only 4-6” from my fronk, had I pulled in 4-6” closer I’d have some pretty good damage to my truck, I got lucky but now I know & now you know
Hi Tom. Thanks for telling people the very informative point that preconditioning in cold weather is such a good way to minimize the effects of cold. Rivian added the that functionality in their app to precondition at a certain time before driving and it really makes a difference. Not only does the battery get heated, you can condition the inside for a certain temperature, seat heating and steering wheel heating, using the home L2 charger so it still will keep your state of charge at the level you want as you exit on your daily drive or trip.
Great video and loved all parts the second time, as stated, timing is relevant. I love my Lightning, but sure wish Ford would push out updates. Recall letting stated update for BMS would be in Nov. The end of Jan and no update. I still don't have the battery SOC update either. Guess i need to take it to Ford. Sure doesn't compare well to Tesla.
Love Darren and this is a great educational video.
Second winter in an EV here it's honestly better for me than a gas car. I've no concern that it won't start, I don't have to fuel up in the cold, my vehicle is warm when I'm supposed to leave, and the "range losses" just don't matter as I charge at home and my daily drive is less than half of my range on my normal days. On days I go further I almost never have to charge outside of the house anyway.
The Ford Pass app in the video is different from the one i use with my Mach-E. To get to charger settings, I have to click in "Preferred Times" first, then click "Use preferred charge settings" to actually bring me to the settings menu.
I'm sure it's just a case of the video showing a previous of the app. Nonetheless, great video Tom!
Heat pump efficiency is dependant on temperature. Heat pumps for houses are often set to operate down to 30 degF then switch to alternate heating, like natural gas, because the heat pump costs more for electricity than gas heating. I haven't used my Tesla Y below 20 degF yet. I expect colder temps will cost me a lot of range and will be using mostly seat heating when it is really cold.
23:40 "When a battery gets cold, it has less space in it to store its power?" Not sure what he is trying to say here but when a battery is cold it is harder for it to deliver and accept energy without damaging it. It still has the same amount of energy in it. In addition to this reality, you have to spend additional energy raising the temperature of the battery pack itself and the cabin. This is it. This covers what you need to know about batteries in the cold.
They mean you can't extract as much energy out of a cold battery. It's inaccessible when cold. Capacity decreases.
Every car I've driven, if I have enough heat to keep the windows clear, the cabing will usually be more than warm enough, I only really use the heated seats if I'm already cold before getting in, like if I had to shovel or clear a lot of snow off the vehicle, and only use it for 5 min, the heated steering wheel is great tough.
Love your Chanel, Tom
Unfortunately, misinformation seems to be a large problem in all forms of media
Ford really needs to have the option to allow the battery to warm perhaps when cabin heat is on. Having the be plugged in to warm the battery doesn’t get the job done.
Preconditioning uses energy, but it also allows for regen, so you could end up net positive unless you’re getting right onto the freeway. Regen is limited on cold battery
You really need to be plugged in when you're preconditioning the battery, or it's not really helping the range, because you're using the energy for precon that could be used for propulsion.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I agree about preconditioning while plugged in, but either way, it can be worth the energy expenditure in the form of regen. The Model S warms the battery by default for this reason (at least it did on my 2014). It also had a “range mode” which turned the battery warmer off. The idea was you would likely be driving on the highway in range mode and warming the battery for regen is then wasteful. So, Tesla believes that warming the battery just for regen is worth it, even if pulling from the battery for it.
Hi Tom you are Always making good informative videos and even though winter range has been mentioned on your earlier videos, it’s great that you make a new one on a yearly basis so that viewers are up to date. Btw, is it even worth preconditioning if you are plugged in an interior heated garage? I feel that the batteries won’t be warming up as much as if it were outside. Your thoughts?
It was inside the garage, but not heated. That said, the garage is probably 20 degrees warmer than it is outside. But if it was charging outside, the preconditioning would have just turned on earlier to get the batteries warm by the departure time.
Tom - I have a LFP M3 and now the Std Range XLT. Just experienced the Polar Vortex here in Chicago. Repetitive question - How often to put the vehicle on the charger and do you recommend 80, 85, or 90% weekly charges? Out Spec was stating they like to charge less often, taking the EV down to 20 to 30% before recharge?
It would be nice to have Alaska as a separate video for us to share. “Driving an F150 Lightning in Alaska - Interview with Ford loyalists”
With my ICE truck cold weather is something I don't have to think about, just get in and drive.
Bare minimum people need to plug in their EVs every night in cold weather so the battery stays warm. Full preconditioning isn't always necessary, but plugging in is very important. If you park outside unplugged the battery can get extremely cold which causes big problems with power limits (car can't accelerate), range, charging, and sometimes heat. That was a big factor in Chicago recently, all these rideshare cars were parked outside unplugged so the battery was too cold to charge. So they had to spend the first hour on the DC charger heating their battery before the actual charging started. Your Level 2 charger is like a block heater for your battery, you need to keep it warm enough to function.
Thinking beyond the extreme colds.
I have been thinking a lot about whether or not the battery preconditioning is a net energy savings in any condition, depending on distance you'll be traveling. It could easily be, if the car runs more efficiently on a HOT battery, which the BMW i4 has proven to do. Drivers report improved efficiency after 1/2 hour of driving even in the summer. Our sales rep saw that we were EV nerds when we bought our car, and he noted that BMW had told them that preconditioning before every drive is most efficient, which we thought sounded like erroneous advice. Clearly, preconditioning for 1/2 hour on shore power, and then driving 2 miles, wouldn't net energy savings. But it begs the question, how much effect does a hot battery have on vehicle efficiency and how do we test for the break even point with various trip sizes on various designs, so folks who want to optimize energy savings, lower emissions, make the best use of resources and keep batteries lasting longer.
Ryan on Out of Spec recently noted that they've not yet seen an upper temperature that reduced range when range testing. Intuition and understanding that HVAC has a cost, tells us that 95 or 100 degree driving will be less efficient, but he said, surprisingly they haven't seen that when testing. Has the industry been underselling the benefits of a hot battery, vs. 70 degrees that we've been told is optimal for health.
Obviously, telling the masses they NEED to precondition batteries before every trip would stall the transition away from fossils, so I guess this is about understanding it better and over time finding ways to perhaps automate this for people who make the same drive every day.
This is such a great video. Only thing I am getting a sense of deja vu, was this posted in the past and now reposted?
Yes, I explained that in the beginning
Glad to hear that your voice is back. It's getting close to February and hopefully that means Tesla opening up Super Chargers (Not just Magic chargers). We want to know as soon as you know anything!
This is excellent information and advice!
Thank you!!!
Tom some new info learned: Ford has conservative #'s and may be adjusted up. More over the air software updates with enhanced features. Take advantage of the regenerative braking coach feature.
Questions about Alaska: Charging indoor or outdoor? Average daily driving range? As cold weather reduced range may not be an issue. Same for 10" of snow, relative to tire/rim size and vehicle road clearance. Not mentioned are the number of available chargers and distance to them from his home/work. How much traffic or delayed winter driving does he experience?
Tom, if you are traveling in the cold, and your EV is parked outside your hotel (not plugged in), does it make sense to precondition it before leaving in the morning? That uses a lot of power, but your battery is warm as you start your trip.
My guess is the reason that they want you to turn the temp down while DC fast charging is prioritize AC/heat capacity for the battery thermal management
Thanks for this video it explains a lot of what I’ve seen in my charging info.
They show the preconditioning and how to set the charge level, I noticed on the weekend setting it uses the same charge level set for weekdays.
Is there a way of changing the charge level differently between weekdays and weekend? And if not what’s the propose of the two beside just time?
Those Blizzaks are the main reason his Lightning drives so well in the snow. My stock A/T tire is NOT great. I'd rather have the all seasons.
That being said, it's still good enough when driving carefully.
Around the 17 mark you were talking about "preconditioning", the problem I have with your response is that the preconditioning is tied to the Departure time setting. This to me is an issue that they need to deal with. I also just hit the button and start the car but I don't always remember to do it in time and so the departure time is convenient for like getting up and going to work. This is why I wish there was a button to hit that said "precondition". Why make a feature that most would use to get their car ready for a time they know they want to get going and either cool or heat the car and that also be tied to preconditioning when they don't need the latter?
i am hoping since we are in the early age of EVs, some manufacturer or somebody will figure out a way with better tech/ or automatic way of keeping the battery on absolute optimal temperature without the need for the "end user" to manually set pre-conditioning. Eventually a foolproof or a standalone energy source other than the main battery itself wouldn't be used for heating.. or maybe a type of battery that is not affected too much by super cold weather.
Thank you
Bolt splits out the energy use as well
I'm in Florida so I have no idea what you're talking about. Still, it's great info in case I find myself in Yankee territory one winter.
May I interest you in a snorkel?
At 23:24 in this video Darren Palmer say nobody reads the manual anymore. I have a major issue with my 2023 XLT lightning. It will not charge, getting a charging fault error. the vehicle suggest I check the manual. There is no info in the manual about this problem. So Darren I do check manuals. So far after 5000 miles I am very concerned that I got a LEMON. I preordered this vehicle in 2021 waited 2 years and paid more than I would have liked $65,000.00 with DE tax dealer fee and warranty $74,000.00 out the door. The dealer is Boulevard Ford Lewes DE. Maybe I should have bought a TESLA.
My neighbor bought a lucid thinking that charging using 120V would be fine. I got a call from him asking me why was his EV charging super very low. I had to educate him EV101 then had my friend install a 240V, 50A outlet to charge his EV. He really thought driving an EV was just like a gas car. In addition to folks like him, some people also depend on DC fast charging always, not understanding battery preconditioning, poor planning, impatience and used cases. Unless you have dedicated parking space with 240V outlet, stick to phev for now.
Plugin Hybrids do not have the preconditioning features right? I have never seen it at least for my Crosstrek PHEV. I guess it is more for full EVs that fast charge? I always drive my car in full EV to the charger in all seasons. I assumed that this warms the battery up through usage and sort of preconditions it? I live in Montreal and deal with -30 degree Celcius temps failrly often. Also, just to note, I have to charge at public chargers as I live in a condo tower so I am always looking for ways to properly care for my vehicle when charging since we deal with cold weather for many months up here.
As per your recommendation, we have an amazing e evse 15-30. Has worked great in our garage’s drier outlet. The company no longer is making it. What else are you recommending today for a 15-30 outlet?
Years ago I used to live where you needed a block heater. I wonder would just plugging into 120 volt overnight be enough to make a difference?
What if I do not have a garage or a private driveway to charge overnight? This solution does not address a major road block to BEV ownership, winter or summer!
good stuff.
Can i precondition the lightning using a L2 charger with 10 amps or do I need more amps I pull power from my solar batteries and inverter so im trying to put the least amount of strain on my solar system as I can
Do you think using level 1 charging (plug in all times when not in use)will benefit the battery in cold weather or any weather if you don’t drive over 50 miles / day? Some days no miles. It seems that the range is greater.
Yes, definitely. But how much it helps will depend on how much you drive and how efficient your EV is. For instance, it would be very helpful for my Chevy Bolt EV, because it gets 4 miles per kWh. But my F-150 Lightning gets less than 2 miles per KWh in the winter, so level 1 charging isn't as effective as it would be for the Bolt.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney
I have a Cadillac LYRIQ. It gets about 3 -4 miles per hour. If I don’t get to 80% on day one mostly the next day. The cost is the same whenever I charge. Thanks.
How is it on the battery parked in plus 20c and then driving straight out into the cold at -35 I've never heard anyone talk about that
At the 12:30 mark you begin addressing number 5, this is an important one. Do you know if the the vehicle charge rate is reduced by the amount of the heater draw or dose the BMS just call for more power, presumably you spend very little time at the chargers max rate.
I would think that when charging at a 150KW station if the BMS has throttled the battery exception rate to 120KW and the heater is consuming 5 KW than a good charger would deliver 125KW? No?
I am a numbers guy. What is cold, what is hot? In Florida cold is 60 degrees and hot is 90+ degrees.
What temperatures do one need to precondition the battery?
Thanks
I usually don't precondition until the temperature is under 30F. But you could benefit (although less) by doing so when it's under 40F.
What are the latest update from Ford on the F-150 as of 2024Jan?
Unfortunately, this guide doesn't address the biggest issue: with so many new EV drivers not having access to overnight home charging, what options do they have, esp. for those that live in the extreme winter Climates?
They work fine in these climates, but I'd argue the convenience of a warm cabin and battery at departure are lost. Then again, if one can't charge at home or work, the primary convenience is lost with BEVs and PHEVs.
Infrastructure build up is inevitable for those without a garage or attached driveway. Charging at parking structures and street parking will expand.
Not an EV owner ( open to it ) . But would not be if no lvl2 charger option at home ( live close to Chicago) !
Yes, we lived with an EV in Minnesota, it was fantastic. But Level 2 is critical to gain the benefits and convenience.
Independent auto journalists have cold tested every EV and noted the 30 to 40 percent drop in range in cold weather. None of them sponsored by an EV charger company like you. The items you list to extend cold range for the EVs are ideal situations, not for many people without a garage or overnight charging. You live in a charger-rich area of the country unlike most people. EV sales are dropping because real people are finding out the shortcomings. Maybe in 10 to 15 years with far more charging stations and better battery technology they will be more practical but that time is not now for most.
If you live in a cold winter area, make sure you buy a vehicle with a heat pump
Elon Musk promised full self driving cars by 2020. Tesla started charging $8,000 for the full self driving option. Tesla told everyone if they purchased a Tesla, they would be able to make up to $30,000 a year in passive income by using their Tesla as a self-driving Uber/Lyft vehicle.
EV's are amazing, but it's incredibly stressful that one has to have a list of 8 recommendations for EV's. Just need bigger battery packs and absolutely need more infrastructure for people to convert to EV's. As the Ford guy said you have to realize what you got yourself into. Have to realize the good and bad of EV's at the current state of these small battery packs and no infrastructure in most rural towns.
Great video.
I hate one pedal braking. Makes no sense to me at all.
If only all EVs made it clear how to precondition the battery and also show that battery preconditioning is active. Really, battery pack average temperature needs to be a dashboard value shown to driver, as well as battery conditioning status.
@@EpicDrew15 true, but Leaf has no active thermal management, so data is nice to have, but without preconditioning you can’t manually warm the pack or cool pack when too hot.
Will a car cover help an ev battery stay warmer when parked, if a garage is not an option?
No, that's not going to make any discernible difference.
Those Chicago Uber drivers won't understand any of this. Uber rents drivers a Tesla for $500 a week. I guess a Tesla commands a higher Uber black fare for the driver. They live in apartments and don't have a home charger.
"Fugazi means fake" - Donnie Brasco.
Omfg, you have to be a genius to follow those tipz.
If someone live in condo or apartments it is impossible to precondition EV. If I were in that position, I would buy ICE vehicle.
There's definitely an argument for that. However, even with reduced range, most EV still go at least 200 miles between charges, and that's a week of driving for many people.
Does AC level 2 charging slow down like DCFC as you move past 70%
Not typically until it's above 97%-98% With some cars it charges at the full rate all the way to 100% if there's a large buffer at the top end of the battery.
I charge my trucks on level 2 at home daily. The charging speed has remained consistent all the way to 100% (which I’ll do for long trips). The Ford Lightning’s have a buffer, which helps. The Standard range battery (which are the two I own) has an allowable charging capability of 98KWh. But the actual battery size is 107.6KWh. So in a sense, while the gauge reads 100%, your battery is technically sitting just shy of 92%. Which having this kind of buffer is ideal, knowing Ford has ensured you cannot destroy your battery by overcharging .
The battery cools down while driving? I thought driving warms it up.
If it's cold outside, the cold temperatures will overwhelm the additional heat created by driving and the battery will definitely cool off.
Looks like there could be a market for a clip-on winter cover for the battery so it doesn't cool as fast when driving.
@@rtfazeberdee3519 the batteries are already insulated. They use liquid to warm or cool them.
@@lemongavine Yes, i was just think of an extra layer with a small air gap between the battery and added plate so the battery case doesn't get he full force of cold air
It's sad when things regress. Cars/trucks have had a long road to becoming appliances. They just work. With EVs, you need to reset your life to revolve around the car and its quirks. And it's so much worse if you're not a millionaire and don't own a house.
That statement is incredibly detached from reality. Charge at home and the vehicle is the easiest appliance to live with. Funny enough, they are legitimately appliances, sharing the same grid as the washer and dryer.
Takes me 5 seconds to charge at home, plug in and live life at home.
hey Tom Moloughney would you like to do a video about my problem? Do you have an email ?
Wait, what can Jeremy Renner teach me about EVs in winter?
Simple no tesla no problem
DIEsel is nicht gut! Not good. Why would anyone even suggest the nastiest fuel DIEsel over the nasty gasoline ⛽️ 😒. Keep driving electric trucks and they will improve every 6 months to a year as the batteries improve. DIEsel is killing up. Start one up in a closed garage and have lunch with the engine running and see if you can finish your meal. That will prove to you nicht gut!
Here's is a tip to survive the cold, buy an ICE car..
Loooooooool
a broken record no one is listening to or understanding tom!
I really needed to see this episode. I’m really leaning toward a lightening these days. Got a VERY early cybertruck order number, but honestly just getting sick of Elon and it’s really effecting my perspective on what’s important to me. When I saw this exec state that they are NOT giving up on the Lightening, I really perked up. I’m excited.
It's Lightning