This is how I plan to keep the channel going in the future and a short reaction to the reviews my last two videos received. I will keep my ears open to the developments in the future. I am already excited to see you again in a few weeks time. If you don't want to miss the next video you can subscribe here: ruclips.net/channel/UCijCqTuQyi84512GAirucAA
Completely respectable opinion, you don't need to take one side or the other.I'm going with Redot but I think both projects will benefit the other because of their open source nature.
i'm a vtuber and game dev and why did the lead dev say "ppl with anime avatars" their last upload to youtube is literally another vtuber game dev i know.. i can't use this engine.. Game Maker is better for 2d anyway
@@cibularas3485 what do you mean "lost"? Those engines were already well established when Godot was born. Godot has only been gaining ground, not losing it. Game Maker lost to those. Godot hasn't lost any battle yet.
@@cibularas3485 Unity2D is needlessly clunky, and I can't even think of someone using Unreal's 2D successfully. Godot is quickly overtaking Unity in the 2D space via legitimate obvious benefits in it's design. Godot's 3D is still developing, but it can already replace Unity for a number of simple projects, and Unreal is next.
Agreed, and it's pretty easy to choose, I don't want to use or support a gay anti-white engine. I want to make games, not support my enemy. So I'm thankful they showed themselves for what they are.
@@I2MMDL I can't even think of someone using Unreal's 2D successfully" Let me Google that for you: Ender Lilies, Gensokyo Night Festival, Armed Eats, Subway Midnight, Imp of the Sun, Wunderling DX, Ukiyo, Detained: Too Good for School, Never Ending Beyond (last few not releaset yet). On top of that, there's of course the HD-2D movement started by Octopath Traveler, which of course run on Unreal Engine, along with many other games from Square Enix, like OT2 or Triangle Strategy.
I think we should all adopt a mindset of "this and that" instead of "this not that". Just because I cheer for Redot's success doesn't mean I must cheer for the failure of Godot. That's incredibly silly. The world is plenty big for both and, I think, it will be better with both. That said, I'm sticking with Godot for now; Redot has a lot to prove and they've only just embarked on a long journey. Who knows, in a few months, maybe I can try to make the switch.
listen, I find the drama caused by some people in charge of Godot to be an absolute L. This however doesnt mean nobody should be using Godot anymore or take pride in boycotting it. Godot is still developed by insanely talented people like Dariosamo. While I 100% agree that FOSS projects should never be a political vehicle, I think this is over blown and will eventually calm down...
It will defo calm down - always does. However, it's good to have reasonable competition, diversity of thought and muted politics. Also I notice that Redot themselves have done their best to be respectful to Godot, which is a very good sign.
I don't expect much from redot from a technical perspective, but even if it's a 1:1 copy fork, at least the community around it won't be run by the unhinged people who went mask off on the godot side.
Redot was already being considered because of the a ton of PR that Godot needed were just sitting there. It'll have less initial support but from the get-go it's gonna start being distinctive
@@sonofsisyphus5742 It'll start being distinctive, but not in a Good way. As a Developer, I know how Important a Proper Review Process is for fighting bugs. PR Authors will all the time leave various types of bugs in code, and even with a Good Review Process they still slip through the cracks. Redot Lacks the capabilities to go Through the Review Process, as they themselves got basically next to No Developers relative to Godot, and Them just merging stuff will result in Chaos. Only those seriously lacking experience with this would praise this move. It's the one hell of a reason to steer clear of Redot like the Plague, and the people flocking to it for this reason will quickly get flee from it once they see the resulting hot mess.
It is to my understanding that Redot was made to stay "game development" focused, and address issues that get ignored by the original team. A fork needed to happen, and the Twitter drama was the catalyst. Wether or not Redot can stick around depends on the community and it's leaders.
If Redot gets a community of developers who love their work more than political ideology, it will definitely surpass Godot. The fact that the creator has fueled the fight more with more political positioning is only an indication that the persecutions will continue. Keep politics away from the engine if you don't want a Fork to end up surpassing it, since remember, it is the Community that would drive that project and too many have already left Godot because of this serious mistake they made.
"Keep politics away from the engine if you don't want a Fork to end up surpassing it...." If it is that easy, then redot leader should start looking for some random "woke" dudes for moderators, now. Social media dramas boost twitter account reach rather than software development.
I think the point most people are making is, are you in favor of injecting politics into the game engine's community, or do you prefer to remain neutral (the position that Redot takes). Hope that clears it up
"Injecting politics" And it's just a stupid tweet. Grow up, and stop letting other people manufacture your feelings, they're profiting off of your baby rage.
People who guilt trip others into choosing a side aren't really any different from those they oppose politically. They're separatists all the same. I haven't jumped ship myself, and I'm not in a hurry to, but I'm quite interested in what the future will bring. My only concern with Godot moving forward is... what will the Godot team do whenever they find out that some -developer's- user's political opinions doesn't align with theirs? Some of their recent statements (e.g. "we don't want them here, even if they're good programmers") raised the possibility that they might ban those -developers- users from participating in their communities (discord, etc), or on github.
Your concern has already happened. Godot kicked out Yuri Sizov, one of their top developers, because he's Russian and Russia is The Enemy. He didn't even celebrate Russia's actions, he just refused to publicly condemn them and support Ukraine (this is like asking a Chinese person to publicly condemn the Chinese Communist Party). This kind of purity-policing is what happens in every woke institution, and it's why "woke" matters, why it's not just meaningless internet drama. The same thing has been happening to Mozilla. I use Firefox as my daily driver, and have for a very long time (having a browsing history longer than 90 days is my dealbreaker, and only Firefox delivers), and every now and then when it updates, the update page celebrates "inclusiveness" and links to woke grifters with hilariously bad takes (they haven't done this in a few years, which is too bad because it was very funny). I've noticed that Firefox has clearly been on a downward trajectory in terms of development quality (for example, tooltips have been almost completely broken for the past 6 weeks, and vsync has been broken for a decade, which is why Firefox looks choppier than any Chromium browser) ever since they kicked out Brendan Eich (co-founder of Mozilla and the inventor of a plucky little programming language you might have heard of called JavaScript, and now the founder of Brave) for opposing gay marriage back in 2008, a time when Barack Obama also opposed gay marriage. When an organization is staffed exclusively based on virtue-signalling rather than competence, it winds up with very poor competence. Unfortunately, Redot is probably vaporware. Redot was forked from Godot 7 years ago with the goal to solve the many technical problems Godot had been ignoring (like the C# integration being so unfathomably bad that GDScript actually performs better), not to capitalize on recent culture war drama, but it's never actually _done_ anything. All it's done for 7 years is merge over 68,000 changes from upstream in order to stay up-to-date. Even now, more than a week after they publicly entered the fray, they have nothing to show for it. They still don't have any binaries (you can't download and use Redot engine because it doesn't exist), and they haven't even updated the readme. *EDIT:* I've been following the development of Godot for ages,† lurking the GitHub Issues for non-political reasons, because I (like many others, I know) wanted to make a large 3D open world game in it (which currently can't be done because Godot doesn't support asset streaming so it can't dynamically load chunks into the world, but that's on their to-do list), which is why I know that the C# API is garbage (literally, it creates colossal amounts of garbage in the form of gigantic managed class objects that need to be collected by the .Net GC which the game dev can't control and which causes lag spikes). As a result, I'm the only one here who has _actually_ looked into the Yuri Sizov situation, all the way back when it actually happened, but now I'm getting highroaded in the replies by people who never even heard of the guy before I mentioned him. I actually saw the posts for myself, but these moral guardians are here to "correct the record" based on the hearsay they gathered on Reddit, where anyone who might have dissented is already banned. I can't even defend myself here because all of my comments are getting shadow-deleted. What a great discussion. I can't wait to see this only visible comment of mine get deleted after I edit it, and then everyone will conclude that I'm a coward who ran away after getting caught "spreading misinformation". I don't even know why I try anymore. † *BONUS TIP:* If you want to use Godot to make a serious game with serious big boy physics, then use the Godot Jolt Physics plugin (and also don't use C#). Jolt Physics upgrades Godot from having the worst physics engine on the market (the slowest and least accurate) to having the best physics engine on the market (I wish it were that easy to use Jolt Physics in another engine). I figure that by sharing some Godot lore, I can prove that I'm not a "grifter", and also help out the community that's still in the same boat with me (I can't trust Unity, and Unreal Engine has terrible performance and constant stutters from shader compilation and traversal, not even Black Myth Wukong was spared). I don't care about Godot's politics, just like I don't care about Firefox's politics. I just want software that works. This is the same reason I'm sharing the truth about Godot's C# performance. A lot of people worry about the decision to use GDScript which is easy, or use something else which doesn't even integrate with the editor, and I'm here to tell you, just use GDScript. It's not just easier but also faster, because it's the only language that Juan Linietsky cares about optimizing Godot for. If you need to do a big procedural generation task, sure, spin that out into a C++ module or even a C# module, but never let C# talk to Godot's world simulation (like don't use raycasts from C#).
@@eklei7712 Not familiar with Yuri Sizov, but doing some searching on threads people talking about him, it doesn't seem like he was kicked from the team for being Russian, as he said on Twitter himself that isn't the case and to "stop spreading rumors". Some people said he might've been overly aggressive to other people on Github and other places, but it's hard to find much on what really happened.
@@mnmmnmm There was a 4-month campaign of targeted harassment to get the evil "racist" Russian kicked out of Godot, and then he mysteriously stepped down for personal reasons, but he definitely wasn't kicked out, pls no spread rumorino. 👉👈 Yuri Sizov left Godot 8 months ago. Given what we now know about the Godot Foundation, there's no way they tolerated such a bigot. If it took 4 months to finally oust him, he must have been pretty important to the project. Incidentally, I had another reply here to skaruts, talking about how game developers can still use Godot even if the Godot Foundation doesn't approve of them, but how the inability for such game developers to get their own fixes incorporated into the engine would be bad for the engine in the long run. That reply has somehow been deleted. I don't mean shadow-deleted (visible only to me), I mean full-on deleted (I can't even see it in my own account). Mysterious.
@@mnmmnmmUnfortunately, it's easier to spread misinformation and outrage, so that grifters profit, than to actually research the root cause like you did
At the moment, and for the near future, the engines themselves will be interchangeable. Use either one. In this case, the cause for the fork is not the software, but the people behind it. I won't criticize someone for using Godot, but I will question it if they decide to donate to the Godot Foundation after this whole fiasco. It's not just the community manager, but also two of the devs have shown the disdain they feel towards their userbase. Also, don't forget that the Discord mod that used racial slurs got nothing but a "strongly worded letter", all while people were being banned from Twitter _and_ Github for expressing mild annoyance. These are not good people, and I no longer believe they can be trusted.
Let open source do its job, You don't need to "support" either, the issue I have is with The Godot Foundation not Godot itself, I think Godot's leadership is not good but the software itself is great and most of Redot supporters agree or we would no be forking it.
I am learning Godot right now. When Redot releases a stable version, I will most likely switch over. I don't think there is going to be a lot of difference between the two. I'm just surprised that a game engine felt the need to inject politics on an official social media page. People can have personal ideology but keep it on your own personal page, keep products out of it.
It’s already “stable” it’s exactly the same as godot rn. There is nothing different. Redot is basically a skin for godot if you hate wokies and don’t want to go brokie
I support competition. We know what to expect from Godot, but Redot has everything to prove. The first person to make a game on Redot is going to be harassed for doing so which will lead to large amounts of publicity. Redot needs to stop talking about what happened and start talking about what's next. What's done is done, now move on and don't look back.
I agree. I'm going to support both because it's all still Godot and whether it's called Godot or Redot, either way it's going to be an awesome engine. And as for me, I'm all about the engine . The controversies has nothing to do with me nor my ambitions for making games.
@@cibularas3485 The whole point of Redot is to let people choose without censure. To do otherwise is to become like the fool who went nuts with the ban hammer over hurt feelings & words.
I'm furious one extremist ruined the brand now for millions of people. It's already an uphill battle and that person just dehumanized half of my customers. I'm honestly just going to ditch Godot. I can't risk it. These activists are destroying us man
Yeah i am don't really want engines to be overly political, so why would i choose an engine (one that is completely open source) based on a political reason. "Picking a side" just seems a bit counter productive. Thank you for being one of the few people on youtube that try to stay reasonable and not make statements like "It is so over" or "They burned the engine to the ground" as if the Code itself somehow god bad overnight. I personally am a bit critical of some community decisions the Godot foundation has made, but at the end of the day they do not "own" the engine.
@@user-xl5kd6il6c True if i picked it BECAUSE of the politics. If you tell me "picking X is always political". Its is like making the claim that because water is transparent, if i were to use it as a coolant I as a person have a bias for transparent coolants. Its just taking a property of the thing i chose and stating it as my reson for a choice, eventhough it is not.
I'm not going to shame anyone for using Gadot. As a matter in fact I'm considering using Gadot to make a conservative-friendly/ Anti-woke game JUST to grieve them.
You're totally right, it can only be crybabies with no legitimate point, so it is a totally valid argument to just name call them, dismiss and minimize their point. If "twitter is a cesspool" as you assert, it is likely that it became so because people engage in ad hominems and other rethorical fallacies and lack the capacity to understand that in fact they are the ones who contribute to the state of the platform. Wait... what?
I am genuinely curious - what is the point of Redot? As far as I know, it was created almost purely because of the stuff that people were complaining about Godot a little while back. Is that all? If so and there's functionally no difference between the two, why would there be any reason to switch away from Godot?
In a nutshell, there were hundreds of community suggested and uploaded submitted improvements that were waiting forever and rotting away because they were not sighted quickly enough. That is one point of discomfort, where many complain the Godot Evolution is too stagnant and slow. The recent community thing just pushed quite a few over the edge and made them decide that Godot executives are preventing the Godot Engine from growing to it's best potential so they would make their Redot and move away from Godot over time. In the beginning it's obvious they will be very similar, but this will not necessarily be true for the future. I don't believe they will be tied to the Godot core forever.
I dont really care for all that bs going on with the Godot social media presence. Godot cant push any agenda into the games, as its just a tool, so I dont care. I only care if the product works. What I will likely do is not using the Godot logo, its ugly anyways, and not much of a "selling point" as the Unreal Logo is for example.
It can push an agenda onto the developers of that tool though. Many of the Redot developers were disallowed to work on the engine because of past comments, or even just for being white. Regardless of your opinion on that, purges are detrimental to development and this is absolutely a legitimate reason to support the apolitical side of this drama. I can agree with how you chose to handle it though.
Working with a product made by people that hate you for being white, and wants to push insane homo and gender ideology, is a form of indirect support, or tacit acceptance at best. I'd rather see Godot gone from this earth, than use it "for the tool".
@@I2MMDL I am interested to see if you could provide examples of where they haven't allowed someone to work on the engine because they're white, if that's something that is available?
From a marketing perspective the controversy helps the Godot project as it gets better KNOWN. It may influence it's future, but it only needs to be a good enough alternative technically for the rest of the players in the engine market to take note. From a technical perspective Redot might be a good thing as they is an opportunity to add SIMPLER layers on top of Godot. General purpose engines like Construct, Gamemaker and Gdevelop are more beginner friendly, but lack the higher end features of Godot. The same goes for specific engines like Renpy or RpgMaker. As Godot goes after Unity it can not help to get more complex. Marketing Redot as more beginner friendly gives it a specific niece where they have to compete less.
As a hobbyist game developer, I've been learning Godot for a couple years, while I work on the story of the games and writing the books they're based on. I haven't coded a significant portion of the game(s) yet. Personally, I was willing to give Godot the benefit of the doubt, that it was just a rogue community manager running amok, but recently, the engine's co-founder came out with a pretty inflammatory personal statement (aside from the Foundation's own gaslighting response.) In my opinion, the game engine is just a tool. I don't get involved in communities or twitter/x or discords. None of that impacted me in the least. I wouldn't care in the least what political viewpoints the lead coder has, or the Godot Foundation in general. The engine is free, open source, and has no impact on the content of my game. However, the pendulum swing has begun in the culture war, away from the totalitarian division, exclusion and intolerance brigade (DEI, woke, etc). The bad part about this, is that the other side that the pendulum is swinging toward, has taken a page from their enemy's playbook, and are using cancel culture against them; boycotting and the like. I fully understand their position, but I also think they're going a step too far in some cases... and this is one of those cases, wherein, there are many who would now boycott games made in the Godot engine, due to the stance of the Godot Foundation. This situation is akin to people boycotting houses made by companies that used hammers made by a woke tool company. The hammer is just a tool, but these people have been burned, and they're angry at the side that has burned them, and many are taking a scorched earth stance against things that have destroyed the things they used to love... and in this case, game developers using Godot stand to be caught as innocent bystanders in the crossfire. What this means for me, is that, because I don't support Godot's stance, even though it's no "big deal" to me, I'm going to switch my projects over to Redot. I can see the Godot ship sinking, and I'm not going down with it. If Redot doesn't last, I'm certain a fork will arise that will stand apart from Godot for people to gather around as a refuge from the stupidity surrounding Godot. This issue is big enough to create a lasting divide. And, EVEN IF, no progress is made on the Redot side, the current Godot engine is sufficient to create my 2D games, without ANY updates or additions... I don't need to fear stalled progress on either side.
@@cibularas3485 Because the CM shares the same ideology as the co-founder, and the Board, apparently. They're already funded by investor money, between 4 and 19 million, depending on where you read... so they don't have to care about donation money. They really don't care about offending the community, or being diverse, inclusive or tolerant of viewpoints apart from their own.
People who say they do not want politics involved with game engine made a choice to fork based on a political decision, is not a worthy project to support, its just a childish tantrum. I'll stick with Godot, because development solid, plans are solid, game engine is solid. Why would you need Redot? Just because tantrum time? You fork if there is something wrong with the engine and its development but as of now there is nothing wrong with the engine and its development plans. Plus redots icon of an angry face is self evident. These people with mental issues that exist in social space have not yet effected Godot and hence I do not worry. Godot is on the right track of development. What happened was a social incident it is not related to engine it self.
Its NOT just based on a political decision altho the politics maked a decent amount of the creation Redot will also supposed to make the engine better by adding features and adding those negleted by the godot devs (like fully incorporating jolt physics engine or an alternative to make the physics engine better as an example) REDOT wasnt fully made out of spite and hate of a political engine (and also the redot logo was chosen in a logo competiton on discord so it could have been literaly any other logo out of lots of logos)
I've seen Redot's website and they say the main reason to make a fork is to create a community driven engine, not a corporate driven one. Even if you don't believe in that statement, it's an undeniable conflict of interest the fact that Juan has a business that has a strong dependency on Godot.
@@carlosleyva-calistenia6400 Over the past week+ i have been learning more about the situation and it really doesn't help matters that juan and the godot team have gone radio silent, i find that extremely aggravating as hell that juan just walks away since oct 3rd ( i mean WTF juan?!?! where you at?? i thought this was your baby) ...... but who knows, maybe juan will find a way to heal and make the godot community happy on all sides without letting a sht employee screw his company up again ((btw, fwiw; i personally believe that NAT guy is the xananax guy and went to work for the godot foundation as a trojan horse specifically to make all godot game devs loose faith in the godot engine and therefore scam the majority of those who left unity3d to go 'back' to unity3d because the timing of unity's announcement of their complete removal of the 'unity tax' is just by far TOO coincidental)).......... it is obvious that all of us have no choice but to just sit around and wait to see what's going to happen next ___however; that said, i have zero faith in the two redot guys and most specifically because the bulk of godot engineers have not switched from godot to that redot fork and thus withOUT engineers that passionately work both individually and collaboratively on any FOSS project then that project is doomed THerefore my viewpoint on the whole situation with godot AND all the forks of it boils down to this simple question: ::: "WILL the many hundreds of active godot engine engineers continue working with godot engine OR will they pick a new fork and if so then WHICH fork will they go to develop for?" ** because THAT is the only place we can expect to have a working godot engine regardless of its name!!! and i will also say this: "IF" those two redot guys succeed in getting the godot engineers to join their redot fork of godot engine then i will give the redot a full consideration ____BUT : i don't believe that will happen ------ lets all just wait and see BEFORE making our final decision on where to go next... REMEMBER THIS: it is THE ENGINEERS of the Godot Engine who we must be excited about so wherever they go, that's where we should go. PERIOD
Your measured approach is appreciated, but PLEASE don't feel the need to stop producing Godot content out of a fear of 'review bombing'. I haven't heard much about the Redot project, but I also have not seen any actual serious developers interested in basically a copy of the existing engine but with a red icon. There are people obsessed with Twitter drama that might leave nasty comments, but there are MORE actual devs happily using the same engine we've happily been using for years and enjoy more RUclips content about it. ❤
Well, all forks start out as "basically a copy" of the original project from which they're forked. But the more they are independently developed, they will diverge more and more until they become substantially different. Considering that Godot has refused for years to merge numerous pull requests, to fix numerous bugs, and to add highly requested features-all things that Redot has already pledged to do from the jump-it won't take long for the two to diverge and for Redot to take the lead. The Godot team remains in love with the "waiting for Godot" mystique whereas the Redot team wants to focus on developing a good engine.
I can’t with this culture war bullshit and the fact one split from the other I’m inclined to think the people splitting are the more difficult people to work with, I’ll be sticking with Godot
100% This thing feels a bit like the fork of Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. Created a lot of drama at the time and showed a lot of people to be bad actors. Where is Bitcoin Cash today?
@@Sumojoe-g3q Not to mention these people were already splitting off BECAUSE godot's creator is hard to work with, with a lot of ignored pull requests, etc.
They did not ban supporters. Anyone can go and download the engine. All of that blocking happened on twitter, not in on the tool (if it's even possible to block someone from using a piece of software)
I'm still using Godot. Redot is Godot in everything but name, money, and experience. While it seems that Redot is trying to make a CE (community edition) of upstream I find it odd that they wanted to remove themselves from Godot while staying firmly pressed against it. So are they going to take without supporting core? Will that just be leeching? Would that be supporting their politics? What happens when donations are up and running and Godot gives them money? This whole things is like an 8 year old kid running away from home just to end up living in a tent in the yard. One set up by their parents. Brought them their sleeping bag and food, and left the door unlocked.
They could have supported, but everyone that tried to be at least "apolitical" got banned, in all channels. X, discord, I think even github. Still I think they're unbanning people, but some trust was lost. We should use what has been working up to now. We'll see if Redot is truly apolitical and what kinda changes that brings. They're "community driven" supposedly.
Yea, the Godot team could've handled it without antagonizing people and pissing everyone off. Well,... the CM could've not caused this whole mess in the first place.
What a nonsense, create a whole new engine just because you got involved in some drama, don't get me wrong, its smart move to take advantage of a company backlash to profit from the chaos, but lets be real here, redot has no future as an engine, its reason foundation is weak and the ones in charge are just some random people with some little knowledge about forking. Godot is on hand of extremely versatile and capable developers and will continue to grow, leeches side projects of course will occur, but thats about it.
I don't see Redot attracting enough developers to have enough reason to switch to it. The way I see it right now, it's just going to copy every update that Godot releases. Worse yet, it will likely lag behind every Godot version since Redot will have to tweak the update to change the logo and name everytime. But the worst situation is that Redot's primary developers eventually lose interest, and then the fork gets abandoned. I've seen this happen countless times with other open-source projects. Developers determine what gets developed. If Redot doesn't have anyone actually working on it to make it stand out, then there's no point in using it. Maybe developers will pick up Redot and make unique updates, but I don't see that happening.
Godot is open-source for that reason. copying the open-source code and branding yourself as "anti-woke" while launching a hate campaign on the "competition" (where they will copy every major update from) won't go as far you think as compared to Godot's hundreds of collaborators
If you only care about the tech, and especially if you're already heavily invested in Godot, then it really doesn't matter which you pick. However, the toxic nature of certain people who keep infesting everything tells me that I'm right to not recommend either to newbies. I'm going to keep recommending one of the open source Doom or Quake engines. The lack of continued development shouldn't be a deterrant for anyone since it just means they're stable. As for why I still wouldn't recommend Redot, that's because we can expect that Godot will make a breaking change in the very near future which prevents the two from interoperating. Such is the nature of toxic activism in these "modern" times.
free and open source tool that provides less than a quarter of what the competition does is easy enough for me to throw in the bin and never worry about this matter again. As if even 5% of the indie dev market will ever hit the price cap of 1 million dollars that Unreal begins to charge their paltry 5% royalty.
I think you're being a bit silly here. Yeah, some people use the fees as a reason for Godot but that's not the whole story, and saying the engine offers less than a quarter of what the competition does is just not true. Godot offers a really streamlined pipeline with other software, and the fact it's open-sourced means instead of being limited by what the engine offers, you can simply add the features, compatibility, and support you want to the engine and drive the development of it further than the closed source alternatives. The only thing it lacks imo is a diverse creators marketplace but that's to be expected with a smaller community and to be honest, is a blessing if anything because Unity has a rep for low quality asset grab copy paste games.
@@sayatoshi Unreal Engine has completely modifiable source code. Absolutely nothing stopping you except skillset. Godot doesn't offer a pipeline that has even half of the industry standards. Unreal Engine can be used without almost any feature, you can even disable the renderer entirely. Marketplace is irrelevant to the discussion anyways as most marketplace assets are interchangeable between engines, especially if you can extrapolate logical setups. Unity is a piece of garbage and still offers more industry standards than Godot, I would stop trying to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. It's lacking in many departments and that is so apparent it should go without saying.
@@Mad_Catter_ Not defending anything, I don't contribute to the Godot main branch lol, but you're just making statements with no backing so I'm replying to see if you can give some more information besides just "doesn't meet standards" and "lacks features". What exactly is lacking?
@@sayatoshi I believe you still have the burden of proof in your statement as well. I could go on for days about what godot lacks in terms of AAA standards, integrations and high fidelity but it sounds like you just want to argue for absolutely no reason other than typing on your keyboard. There's literally no point in conversing with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.
@@Mad_Catter_ I think we both know you're saying this because you don't know the answer to my question lmao im starting to doubt if ur even a dev tbh lol
I will be supporting Redot (12+ years C++ dev here, I use an alias on YT precisely because the culture war makes it stupid hard to get your opinions out there),
Redot not banning for politics so by default you are forced to be on Redot if you are banned otherwise you can stay netural. I think at this point Unity is better again. At this point, I am considering Unity because more jobs are in Unity.
The drama made me find your channel and you gained a new subscriper that are looking forward to more content that I can have use of in my Godot programming. It is easy to forget that this drama is not massive outside of certain groups and X, in the cases it has spread to new people it has in many cases instead made a lot of people see the strengths or potential strengths of Godot. Godot official discord have gained a lot of people and Godot foundation have increased it support (in supporters the last few days, slowly but still goes up). Do I think Godot made the right thing blocking a few (was not many) from the Github, No! That was a massively stupid move and plain wrong to do. However, I think it is easy to overact in this because there are a very active group trying to actively making this a bigger thing than it is. So please just continue doing what you are doing.
This case is not as simple though, if it was for example, Movie watchers, then you can say most are offline, you can't say that of gamers, but even more damning, you can't say that of game developers, game developers are not only less in overall quantity but they have more online presence and interact more than any other demographic with the online communities. So while a thousand random twitter people would be a small sample for movies or comics or whatever, that's not the case for software developers.
I just need an engine to work with and not trying to choose a political side. Since they are both still doing the same thing at the present, I'll stick with the original Godot.
It wouldn't be hard to surpass godot. It has so many technical issue I am constantly running into. Once I finish my current game, I'll go back to searching for a different engine, or make my own.
I don't think Redot is equipped to thrive on its own and if I have to use a rebranded copy of Godot I would probably stick to the og. I am a UE dev, but I follow Godot with curiosity. The same big shift that happened toward Blender in 3d art could come one day toward Godot for game engines. Open source projects like this one are rare gems and need to be protected for the industry as a whole.
who cares about this stupid controversy just create godot tutorial content and games. This is why i don't pay attention to politics it just gets people angry and geared up in endless stupid arguments, completely pointless and unproductive.
It sad that problem is not solve for CM in still abuse of power. CM broken many rules and self fish. Just Godot engine is victims and different from good and evil but depend on the person use power or abuse it. Just the few group have power to spam DEI stuff in channel and does not repent of those mods abuses. Just the core people are bad but the dev strangers are good people trying to make their game project their own style.
You should ignore any negativity and just keep creating in either and make your videos have the title of both Godot/Redot instead of one or the other. For a while at least, Redot IS Godot so anything you do should work in both. Ideally Redot will eventually have features Godot does not, then it may be worth switching fully to Redot. But until then it really doesn't matter. And if Redot fizzles out from lack of support instead, you can just drop the Redot and act like it never happened. 😆 I think Redot has some potential though. Despite what nay-sayers think, the main devs seem to be doing a good job of fending off the negativity toward them while also maintaining a pretty neutral, game dev only, no politics approach. So if they do manage to keep the core in-line with Godot, while also building on modules people have wanted for years all while keeping the community dev-focused... could work out. Of course Godot itself can always pull back the new features, the problem is they've shown for years now that they won't.
Well, now that redot has unfortunately lost their entire dev team, it wasn't too hard to choose. Not that there was much of a choice. Revenge forks don't succeed generally and this was no different
I don't know anything about this redot engine, and my first impression is that these guys are not going to last a mile. Unless they already have a heavy development background, they have no funds, just volunteers, and what will they be adding exactly. How is this messaging nonsense effecting core Godot functionality, that it needs to be forked? Seems like a hype train, with soemone somewhere hoping to get rich. But who knows, maybe they are the real deal. I certainly didn't hear anything technical in the audio.
With all these opinions, there is definitely no doubt that woke only leads people to say absurd things. If Redot gets good developers, it would surpass Godot in record time, given that Godot's own developers still have not incorporated solutions that have been proposed to them for some time now to solve several errors that the engine has.
A game engine and various applications grow and improve with a community, especially if it's open source. You can't separate them, particularly if your idea is for the engine to expand through collaboration. So just because something is free doesn’t mean you should tolerate things that hinder the environment you also rely on. With that in mind, if the community becomes divided or unsustainable due to the ideologies of the engine’s developers or idiots they support, politicizing or injecting ridiculous ideologies into the engine, then it’s time to either boycott, stop using the engine, or create (as in this case) an alternative that provides the proper space.
@@SylvanFeanturi That's how I feel. I'd rather have the software be closed-source and fully paid, with a specific team working on the engine that I can hold accountable for my money, instead of dealing with random people with mental issues like Xananax, haha. That's the problem with anything "community-driven".
I think you did a very good job handling this situation. It would have been easy to be bitter after taking collateral damage from the Godot controversy, but you stayed cool and made a fair and informative video. I'm really excited to switch to Redot! And I went ahead and subbed so I can catch your Redot-related content when it comes out.
@darkvoid4017 in a nutshell: the redot guys are just scammers trying to destroy the massive popularity that Godot has amassed over the passed year since the board of directors at unity3d nuked unity3d with the "unity tax", you can just ignore them if you like because godot is going strong and development of godot remains normal operations. btw; imho i personally believe the unity board of directors are behind the whole hoax in a desperate attempt to reclaim lost unity devs who went to godot a year ago. i partially base that on the idea that unity just got rid of the "unity tax" and are trying to release a new unity version.... they clearly bit off more than they can chew and from what i hear, their stakeholders are not happy!
@goldsocks9999 i personally believe the only point of that redot idea is to try and scam away as many godot devd as possible away from using godot and obviously because of the fact that godot is surprising unity3d by a lot in popularity.
Just stick with godot, the drama is just that. The community isnt "on fire". Get off the anti woke train. Godot posted a meme as a response to a nonsense anti woke post, if you cant handle that enjoy crying on your keyboards.
The community manager banned people for saying they're not political and upon reevaluation people found this person threatened others with violence for years. Even people on the left think that's gone too far. I'm so angry. I now have to abandon my project because of this story turning people off from Godot games
I still want to believe that all this chaos will be resolved. Having two basically identical game engine is pointless, Nobody cares if a game-dev is n4zy or w0k3, people want to make games and have a community where they can talk about games and gamedev. Why we can't leave the political stuff on the personal profiles?
Thanks. Good video. You forgot that there are people who aren't going to use either of them "dot" engines. Godot is dead because you can't have an open source project where maintainers screw over their own community. But it's not all roses on the development side either. Which is why the number of bugs only grow and why implementing new features is so slow. It was clear right from the establishment of Redot that it's not going to drift too far from Godot code wise. Unless they manage to bring over most of the community and resources then there's not much hope for them either. Fortunately there are other game engines. Even other open source engines.
To both of you saying unity is free, it only is free until unity decides it isnt. That's right, unity is not a free engine, they control it instead of you, the user. They can do whatever they want and they will change the license whenever and however they want. This is why open source matters. You, the user, are still in control over how your godot works, no matter what twitter says.
As long as Redot uses C++ for programming, this won't be an option. But let's see what's next. A third player would certainly be interesting too. The waters of the hostrionic drama are slowly settling. Luckily it's all open source. We'll see what comes. 🤓
The absurd thing is that the reasons that many people give for abandoning Godot are to transfer a controversy that arises from the community's social networks to the engine itself, as if that affected and came from the development and programming process of the engine... which is absurd. What's more, if we go back to the origin of these events, it all started because all general engines were accused of being "woke" (unity, unreal, godot and by extension redot), which is also absurd. The good thing about redot existing is that it allows us to see development lines that can enrich the redot and godot environment.
This kind of stuff is happening everywhere. Just look at the Pygame (Pygame-CE) dama... basically the same thing. Now i'm scared to even try some programming languages (i'm talking to you, Rust). Can we go back to the TABS x SPACES war?
Redot is just a brand new fork there's no reason to even pay them attention, like Linus once said, talk is cheap, show me the code, also as long as Godot is open-source and given away with the MIT license they physically CANNOT prevent you from using it no matter how much their Discord mods dislike you. The most their weird mods can do is ban you from the discord which is not the end of the world anyways. If being banned from a discord and not being able to get instant support upsets you then really you need to be looking at tools with support included as a paid feature that cannot be revoked at a whim without legal consequences and in that respect i'd bypass Godot or any of its' forks entirely. The fork makes sense for people concerned about being banned from contributing to Godot but Redot doesn't explicitely say it will not reject any PRs on political issues or ban anyone for anything they believe or have said in private or public, so they don't really fix the problem they're just taking advantage of the publicity. If you wanna fix the situation you need a fork that EXPLICITELY says it will never get involved in political matters and will actively disregard anything about any contributor other than the code they submit, and then you couple that with another Discord with a similar motto, Redot hasn't done that yet so i'm not paying attention
"For all our new members and existing members, we want to discuss exactly what the philosophy and reason behind Redot is, and why we're here. This fork is ultimately about solving the issues developers had with the direction of the Godot Engine. While in many ways recent events have led to this, in reality it was the straw that broke the camel's back (specifically the blocking of donors/GitHub users). Many users have been disenfranchised by the lack of initiative and direction with Godot's Leadership for quite some time, including a high developer turnover rate, and pull requests not being merged in a timely matter. With the GitHub bans and blocks/banning from Twitter and Discord, a part of the community's trust was broken, and this is the outcome. Similar to the Unity debacle, many are now looking for a new home. A more stable home. And we want to welcome those people here. Please refrain from the political talk moving forward. Regardless whether they're a radical on the left side or the right side, they have one thing in common: They cry and complain and nothing gets done as a result. I've seen communities from both ends of the spectrum end up turning into nothing but an echo chamber and nothing getting done. Let's worry about getting things done. Let's make Redot the best engine it can possibly be moving forward."
*_"If you wanna fix the situation you need a fork that EXPLICITELY says it will never get involved in political matters"_* That's actually part of Redot's goals, mate. It has been explicitly stated countless times. It's even a rule on their discord "no politics".
"If you wanna fix the situation you need a fork that explicity says it will never get involved in political matters" Buddy have you researched what is redot at all in my opinion redot as a fork has 3 goals -NO politics and things like that -help and realize suggestion LONG ignored by the godot team -MAK better and MAK better GAM ENGINE
It is not downloadable yet. They are working on it not sure if you are on X, but here is the latest post about this stating they are testing the build for release x.com/Andevrs/status/1843470087535448216
"./home/ScamArtistNumbNuts/Godot_Extracted_files/newNameForGodotGoesHereBecause_I'M_tooDumbToGoUpOneFolderAndHitRename" oh wait, did mean on windows? 🤔🤣🤣
Well, now that godot took that stance everyone will think that it's just that. And every one who still stays with godot will be automatically considered an activist which is an opposite of good product.
I found it telling that browsing the redot x page for 5 minutes saw a handful of slurs being thrown out towards people they saw as "woke" (queer in some way or another) tbh. The one godot CM went overboard imo, but that was an unofficial community that godot itself denounced. I'm sure people got hit with bans that didn't deserve it, but the ones who DID deserve it often will be the loudest whining about how they didn't.
You don't know the story straight, though. Godot's CM is the person using Godot's official X account (the one that caused this mess). The person they denounced was a discord mod, but the discord has actually been official for years. They lied about that. There are archived versions of the community page showing this. There are slur on all sides. Please understand that. But most people were actually not being aggressive toward Godot at the beginning. Barely anyone deserved a ban or block. But they pissed people off by blocking and banning them just for asking to keep Godot out of politics, and then even more so for being dishonest in their public statements, and even more for antagonizing them further in their mastodon messages. If you see slurs, that's the reason. Don't blame people for being rightfully pissed off. And woke people call themselves woke, it's not other people that see them as woke.
Lmao. I grew up on 4Chan and Something Awful. A community around a game engine where people call each other slurs and laugh about it is the exact thing I want
@graydhd8688 ignore the other replies, they are biased or bots... you actually got it 100% right and if the redot scammers were honest then they would comment so instead of treating you the way they just did. #GodotRocks!!
I don't know who went out of their way to make you feel like a scumbag for not picking Redot. That's not the spirit of any of the material put forth by the Redot people I've interacted with. We expect many people will still use Godot long after the Redot fork is published. To be very clear, the point is not to have founders that don't have their own politics. The point is to NOT use the game engine as a way to pilot those politics. Godot or Redot. Redot's community discourages feeding into political conversations into the community. Speaking about politics -generally- is OK but hot-button topics get moderated, and when a conversation gets too heated, everyone gets chilled out by the mods. It's not biased. That's a big deal. Speaking about political opinions will provoke the mods. Regardless of bias. Granted, there are a lot of people who don't subscribe to the politics of the official Godot server and Godot Cafe. Still, Redot moderators tend to discourage any politics / ideology at all, other than cursory, general discussion on the matter. And toxic reaction bombing isn't something I've experienced on Redot's server. Having an opinion in either of the major Godot communities meant having almost exclusively negative reactions. Redot is working on community workshops to help game devs break into the programming, 3D modeling, and artistic workspaces. For the interim, everything happening in Redot's community supports Godot, and will continue to support Godot dev long after Redot's fork is officially released. So even if you don't buy into the engine, the Redot community is gangbusters. Several thousand members within a few days have joined the Discord. It's still growing. All are welcome, just keep your politics to yourself, your biases and your personal life choices aren't on the table for the vast majority of what the server offers. Join, ask game dev questions. We have people working in Unity, Unreal, Godot, and several people even have their own game engines. People are sharing experience in C#, C++, ART, 3D modeling, and more. Redot is much more than just a fork of a game engine already. I can't wait to see what it becomes. I'm here for it. I don't represent Redot and have no affiliation, even though I would like to, I'm speaking of my own personal experiences.
I don't see any point in switching from GODOT to REDOT. If it’s so important not to use GODOT, then why not UNITY or UNREAL ENGINE? They will be better than some incomprehensible GODOT clone. I’m not switching, I don’t care about this overclocking, I’m not using any of the things listed where this conflict started.
I still think redot could be beneficial. Godot has a massive backlog of PRs that contain fixes and improvements that haven’t been added if redot adds them then its a win for users who’ve been waiting for thos fixes and improvements to be added to godot Thats always been my biggest issue with godot is that they have slept on so many fixes and improvements due to much backlog or the devs not thinking it’s important enough
@@tux_the_astronaut Without funding and specialists, they are unlikely to be able to do this. And even if they can do this, all these upgrades will be able to add in Godot, because both platforms will be open source. But the main problem is time, since Godot has already lasted long enough to be trusted, and Redot could collapse at any moment - the hype will subside, and the platform may stop supporting updates. In words, of course, it’s good to add updates suggested by users, but in practice a lot of performance and compatibility problems may arise - it's not that simple.
Just remember: Redot is the "apolitical engine" that -Was born from political drama -Followed, begged for the attention of, and constantly reposts Mark Kern/Grummz -Advertised exclusively to anti-woke culture war non-devs who review bombed Godot -Has literally nothing posted or talked about in terms of technical details other than vague ideas, half of which don't even make sense to actual devs but sound good to non-devs -Has constantly posted and reposted drama and self-victimization to fan the flames of drama and anti-woke culture war support. Redot is going to harm the industry greatly, if it doesn't immediately fizzle out.
I really appreciate the neutrality. The issue with all of this is politics. It seems that the people around the development of Godot does not accept any different opinion to theirs. I'm just new to all of this, and What I got is that Godot is getting behind and They are not listening with feedback from the community, Redot is born because of these grievances and their main message is: Just games no bullshit. It's not an issue if people have different political views or opinions, the issue is when these believe are affecting the development of the tool or favoring one group over the other.
I won't support Godot because the community is toxic and their naturally toxic behaviour have hindered the progress of Godot itself, even if they're receiving so much money. They're likely squandering them and the effort put in is less than the worth of donations and progress of the game engine itself. They're all literally deadwoods now.
At the moment, there seems to be no problem in using Godot to produce games. However, the Woke Activists have messed up SCE and UBI SOFT over time. Donations from supporters may not be used for the Godot Engine. I fear that the development of the Godot Engine will stall.
The problem is, is Godot still a free (as in freedom, not free beer like Unity) game engine, when they actively block users from accessing the code base on GitHub simply because they don't agree with their political agenda? You can say that your support (whether you think you mean it or not, making content for it is supporting) to Godot doesn't mean you support their political agenda, but like it or not from the outside it would look the same as saying you support German but doesn't support Nazism during WW2. So, if you don't want to get involved in this controversy, just stay out of it. There's no need for pointless hypocrisy.
@@davidak_de Its supposed to be politically neutral, woke people are welcome in the redot community.... where as you get banned from the godot discord for using gendered terms like "you guys"
Not yet. As far as I know, Redot can not even be downloaded yet as an executable program. But all they are currently doing is making a copy of Godot, no changes have been implemented yet. So in a way, your answer is: there are no differences as of now from a technical point of view.
I commented that there is no difference but my comment seems to have been deleted :/ If you look at the redot GitHub they didn’t even change the Readme. It still says Godot and has the godot logo. When you think logically about both projects being open source software projects, what features is Redot planning to ship that Godot is not? Who is the Redot dev team? What is their timeline? How does moving to Redot benefit the user compared to sticking with Godot (assuming they are currently using Godot). Looking forward to seeing what they produce.
@@gracechan3039 all very good questions and at this points everyones guess. The good thing is, Redot seems to acknowledge this and aparently want to prove themselves by their actions and not their words. So it seems we'll have to wait until Redot takes action to answer those questions.
The real day and night difference at this moment is the community. I was blocked by Godot on Twitter on Sunday September 29th, 2024. I hadn't even logged not twitter for _seventeen months_ at that point, and I'd _never_ posted or commented on Godot's Twitter. I barely use Twitter and my post/reply history wouldn't have anything hateful even if I did. On Reddit, apparently r/godot is preemptively blocking anyone who also follows r/conservative. Besides the political targeting (which isn't just against conservatives, but anyone who isn't _insanely_ leftist), they're also banning anyone who has any criticism or constructive feedback of the tech at all. Ask them about a long-requested feature that's collecting dust in the PR backlog? Banned. Contrasty, on the Redot side, everyone's chill and they talk _exclusively about game development_ (Imagine that, game dev chat in a _game dev_ community).
The fork was mostly championed by gamers who are used to extracting power through reviewbombs and the like. The problem with that strategy of getting what you want is that large open source projects are always operated by politically-minded people(despite Juan's statement) because the technical arguments are usually placeholders for arguments over language - the right idioms, terms, etc. If you already have the right definition of a coding problem, then you also have the solution. Programmers are frequently lawyering each other over what is "proper" and "best practice" as a way of taking credit for how a problem is solved, and when corporate interests are in play(as is the case with Godot's current funding) the reasons why a certain decision must be made become obfuscated behind conflicts of interest. Most users of open source are unaware of those internal political discussions, they are just downstream consumers. But they result in a power structure where the core devs are feudalistic and run ahead by crafting complex language within and around the code so that subsequent changes must go through them. The culture war side of it is simply one more "operational theatre" of that conflict, and the natural tendency is going to be to look towards the corporate stakeholders for instructions since they are funding the show. So, Redot is not wrong to try to break away and claim space over the culture, but its most likely trajectory is to just be a lightly rebranded distribution. The reason why large software projects are a thing is because you get features in exchange for all of that ruckus. Everyone complains about it. Then they use it anyway.
I mean to make a fork means nothing.. will be they able to make a team, make own website, documentations, update, upgrade engine ... for it doesn't matter I am Unreal dev
Yeap they can Team-a lot of team aplications Documentation-it will be basically identical to godot for a few months so not a problem for now Website- work in progress but it looks quite good the demos Update- if they have the passion they can Upgrade- alot of help and ideas
Good and level-headed answer. No need to create a fight between them. I see no reason to switch to Redot personally but also see no problem in people who do.
I’m focusing on c#. If ReDot launches a good product I am jumping in both feet first. However I may end up in unity ultimately. But I love the ease of use of Godot, but I can’t use the software knowing full well they hate people like me.
This is how I plan to keep the channel going in the future and a short reaction to the reviews my last two videos received. I will keep my ears open to the developments in the future. I am already excited to see you again in a few weeks time. If you don't want to miss the next video you can subscribe here:
ruclips.net/channel/UCijCqTuQyi84512GAirucAA
Completely respectable opinion, you don't need to take one side or the other.I'm going with Redot but I think both projects will benefit the other because of their open source nature.
I doesn't car about drama still use it
i'm a vtuber and game dev and why did the lead dev say "ppl with anime avatars" their last upload to youtube is literally another vtuber game dev i know.. i can't use this engine.. Game Maker is better for 2d anyway
Competition would be good.
Godot lost to Unreal/Unty long ago
@@cibularas3485 what do you mean "lost"? Those engines were already well established when Godot was born. Godot has only been gaining ground, not losing it. Game Maker lost to those. Godot hasn't lost any battle yet.
@@cibularas3485 Unity2D is needlessly clunky, and I can't even think of someone using Unreal's 2D successfully. Godot is quickly overtaking Unity in the 2D space via legitimate obvious benefits in it's design. Godot's 3D is still developing, but it can already replace Unity for a number of simple projects, and Unreal is next.
Agreed, and it's pretty easy to choose, I don't want to use or support a gay anti-white engine. I want to make games, not support my enemy. So I'm thankful they showed themselves for what they are.
@@I2MMDL I can't even think of someone using Unreal's 2D successfully" Let me Google that for you: Ender Lilies, Gensokyo Night Festival, Armed Eats, Subway Midnight, Imp of the Sun, Wunderling DX, Ukiyo, Detained: Too Good for School, Never Ending Beyond (last few not releaset yet). On top of that, there's of course the HD-2D movement started by Octopath Traveler, which of course run on Unreal Engine, along with many other games from Square Enix, like OT2 or Triangle Strategy.
I think we should all adopt a mindset of "this and that" instead of "this not that". Just because I cheer for Redot's success doesn't mean I must cheer for the failure of Godot. That's incredibly silly. The world is plenty big for both and, I think, it will be better with both. That said, I'm sticking with Godot for now; Redot has a lot to prove and they've only just embarked on a long journey. Who knows, in a few months, maybe I can try to make the switch.
LMAOOO literally the blue and red pill haha
That's perfect solution to this. No one should impose on you any decision. And place of politics or brainwashing is somewhere else.
listen, I find the drama caused by some people in charge of Godot to be an absolute L. This however doesnt mean nobody should be using Godot anymore or take pride in boycotting it. Godot is still developed by insanely talented people like Dariosamo. While I 100% agree that FOSS projects should never be a political vehicle, I think this is over blown and will eventually calm down...
insanely talented people does not exlude that g-dot tried to push agenda
It will defo calm down - always does. However, it's good to have reasonable competition, diversity of thought and muted politics. Also I notice that Redot themselves have done their best to be respectful to Godot, which is a very good sign.
You can not deny this is a good thing, as redot is bound to give more competition to the scene.
@@yol_nI don't think fracturing the base will be beneficial in the long run
@@tesladrew2608 maybe they shouldn't have fractured it to begin with then?
I don't expect much from redot from a technical perspective, but even if it's a 1:1 copy fork, at least the community around it won't be run by the unhinged people who went mask off on the godot side.
Redot was already being considered because of the a ton of PR that Godot needed were just sitting there. It'll have less initial support but from the get-go it's gonna start being distinctive
@@sonofsisyphus5742 It'll start being distinctive, but not in a Good way. As a Developer, I know how Important a Proper Review Process is for fighting bugs.
PR Authors will all the time leave various types of bugs in code, and even with a Good Review Process they still slip through the cracks.
Redot Lacks the capabilities to go Through the Review Process, as they themselves got basically next to No Developers relative to Godot, and Them just merging stuff will result in Chaos. Only those seriously lacking experience with this would praise this move.
It's the one hell of a reason to steer clear of Redot like the Plague, and the people flocking to it for this reason will quickly get flee from it once they see the resulting hot mess.
@@sonofsisyphus5742 can you explain more what you mean?
grummz is involved with redot which makes this a wonderfully ironic comment.
@@firewolf11567 What is your issue with grummz?
It is to my understanding that Redot was made to stay "game development" focused, and address issues that get ignored by the original team. A fork needed to happen, and the Twitter drama was the catalyst. Wether or not Redot can stick around depends on the community and it's leaders.
If Redot gets a community of developers who love their work more than political ideology, it will definitely surpass Godot.
The fact that the creator has fueled the fight more with more political positioning is only an indication that the persecutions will continue.
Keep politics away from the engine if you don't want a Fork to end up surpassing it, since remember, it is the Community that would drive that project and too many have already left Godot because of this serious mistake they made.
"Keep politics away from the engine if you don't want a Fork to end up surpassing it...."
If it is that easy, then redot leader should start looking for some random "woke" dudes for moderators, now. Social media dramas boost twitter account reach rather than software development.
Literally nobody left because of their "mistake" its all drama for some views 😆
@@En0834except that many literally got blocked from the github page
Redot isn't apolitical though, it's just anti woke nonsense
@@tesladrew2608 cuz tge wokes are political aka you can't be apolitical without beign anti them
I think the point most people are making is, are you in favor of injecting politics into the game engine's community, or do you prefer to remain neutral (the position that Redot takes). Hope that clears it up
Redot isn't neutral from what I heard
"Injecting politics" And it's just a stupid tweet. Grow up, and stop letting other people manufacture your feelings, they're profiting off of your baby rage.
Redot is in no way neutral though. Two seconds on the reddit sub and it’s obviously just conservative godot with a red paint job
redot is very far from center.
It's a product of spite. As the spite winds down, so will the product.
People who guilt trip others into choosing a side aren't really any different from those they oppose politically. They're separatists all the same.
I haven't jumped ship myself, and I'm not in a hurry to, but I'm quite interested in what the future will bring.
My only concern with Godot moving forward is... what will the Godot team do whenever they find out that some -developer's- user's political opinions doesn't align with theirs? Some of their recent statements (e.g. "we don't want them here, even if they're good programmers") raised the possibility that they might ban those -developers- users from participating in their communities (discord, etc), or on github.
Your concern has already happened. Godot kicked out Yuri Sizov, one of their top developers, because he's Russian and Russia is The Enemy. He didn't even celebrate Russia's actions, he just refused to publicly condemn them and support Ukraine (this is like asking a Chinese person to publicly condemn the Chinese Communist Party). This kind of purity-policing is what happens in every woke institution, and it's why "woke" matters, why it's not just meaningless internet drama.
The same thing has been happening to Mozilla. I use Firefox as my daily driver, and have for a very long time (having a browsing history longer than 90 days is my dealbreaker, and only Firefox delivers), and every now and then when it updates, the update page celebrates "inclusiveness" and links to woke grifters with hilariously bad takes (they haven't done this in a few years, which is too bad because it was very funny). I've noticed that Firefox has clearly been on a downward trajectory in terms of development quality (for example, tooltips have been almost completely broken for the past 6 weeks, and vsync has been broken for a decade, which is why Firefox looks choppier than any Chromium browser) ever since they kicked out Brendan Eich (co-founder of Mozilla and the inventor of a plucky little programming language you might have heard of called JavaScript, and now the founder of Brave) for opposing gay marriage back in 2008, a time when Barack Obama also opposed gay marriage. When an organization is staffed exclusively based on virtue-signalling rather than competence, it winds up with very poor competence.
Unfortunately, Redot is probably vaporware. Redot was forked from Godot 7 years ago with the goal to solve the many technical problems Godot had been ignoring (like the C# integration being so unfathomably bad that GDScript actually performs better), not to capitalize on recent culture war drama, but it's never actually _done_ anything. All it's done for 7 years is merge over 68,000 changes from upstream in order to stay up-to-date. Even now, more than a week after they publicly entered the fray, they have nothing to show for it. They still don't have any binaries (you can't download and use Redot engine because it doesn't exist), and they haven't even updated the readme.
*EDIT:* I've been following the development of Godot for ages,† lurking the GitHub Issues for non-political reasons, because I (like many others, I know) wanted to make a large 3D open world game in it (which currently can't be done because Godot doesn't support asset streaming so it can't dynamically load chunks into the world, but that's on their to-do list), which is why I know that the C# API is garbage (literally, it creates colossal amounts of garbage in the form of gigantic managed class objects that need to be collected by the .Net GC which the game dev can't control and which causes lag spikes). As a result, I'm the only one here who has _actually_ looked into the Yuri Sizov situation, all the way back when it actually happened, but now I'm getting highroaded in the replies by people who never even heard of the guy before I mentioned him. I actually saw the posts for myself, but these moral guardians are here to "correct the record" based on the hearsay they gathered on Reddit, where anyone who might have dissented is already banned. I can't even defend myself here because all of my comments are getting shadow-deleted. What a great discussion. I can't wait to see this only visible comment of mine get deleted after I edit it, and then everyone will conclude that I'm a coward who ran away after getting caught "spreading misinformation". I don't even know why I try anymore.
† *BONUS TIP:* If you want to use Godot to make a serious game with serious big boy physics, then use the Godot Jolt Physics plugin (and also don't use C#). Jolt Physics upgrades Godot from having the worst physics engine on the market (the slowest and least accurate) to having the best physics engine on the market (I wish it were that easy to use Jolt Physics in another engine). I figure that by sharing some Godot lore, I can prove that I'm not a "grifter", and also help out the community that's still in the same boat with me (I can't trust Unity, and Unreal Engine has terrible performance and constant stutters from shader compilation and traversal, not even Black Myth Wukong was spared). I don't care about Godot's politics, just like I don't care about Firefox's politics. I just want software that works. This is the same reason I'm sharing the truth about Godot's C# performance. A lot of people worry about the decision to use GDScript which is easy, or use something else which doesn't even integrate with the editor, and I'm here to tell you, just use GDScript. It's not just easier but also faster, because it's the only language that Juan Linietsky cares about optimizing Godot for. If you need to do a big procedural generation task, sure, spin that out into a C++ module or even a C# module, but never let C# talk to Godot's world simulation (like don't use raycasts from C#).
@@eklei7712 I should've been more clear though: I didn't mean engine developers, but game developers -- engine users.
@@eklei7712 Not familiar with Yuri Sizov, but doing some searching on threads people talking about him, it doesn't seem like he was kicked from the team for being Russian, as he said on Twitter himself that isn't the case and to "stop spreading rumors". Some people said he might've been overly aggressive to other people on Github and other places, but it's hard to find much on what really happened.
@@mnmmnmm There was a 4-month campaign of targeted harassment to get the evil "racist" Russian kicked out of Godot, and then he mysteriously stepped down for personal reasons, but he definitely wasn't kicked out, pls no spread rumorino. 👉👈
Yuri Sizov left Godot 8 months ago. Given what we now know about the Godot Foundation, there's no way they tolerated such a bigot. If it took 4 months to finally oust him, he must have been pretty important to the project.
Incidentally, I had another reply here to skaruts, talking about how game developers can still use Godot even if the Godot Foundation doesn't approve of them, but how the inability for such game developers to get their own fixes incorporated into the engine would be bad for the engine in the long run. That reply has somehow been deleted. I don't mean shadow-deleted (visible only to me), I mean full-on deleted (I can't even see it in my own account). Mysterious.
@@mnmmnmmUnfortunately, it's easier to spread misinformation and outrage, so that grifters profit, than to actually research the root cause like you did
At the moment, and for the near future, the engines themselves will be interchangeable. Use either one. In this case, the cause for the fork is not the software, but the people behind it. I won't criticize someone for using Godot, but I will question it if they decide to donate to the Godot Foundation after this whole fiasco. It's not just the community manager, but also two of the devs have shown the disdain they feel towards their userbase. Also, don't forget that the Discord mod that used racial slurs got nothing but a "strongly worded letter", all while people were being banned from Twitter _and_ Github for expressing mild annoyance. These are not good people, and I no longer believe they can be trusted.
Let open source do its job, You don't need to "support" either, the issue I have is with The Godot Foundation not Godot itself, I think Godot's leadership is not good but the software itself is great and most of Redot supporters agree or we would no be forking it.
I am learning Godot right now. When Redot releases a stable version, I will most likely switch over. I don't think there is going to be a lot of difference between the two. I'm just surprised that a game engine felt the need to inject politics on an official social media page. People can have personal ideology but keep it on your own personal page, keep products out of it.
It’s already “stable” it’s exactly the same as godot rn. There is nothing different. Redot is basically a skin for godot if you hate wokies and don’t want to go brokie
I support competition. We know what to expect from Godot, but Redot has everything to prove. The first person to make a game on Redot is going to be harassed for doing so which will lead to large amounts of publicity. Redot needs to stop talking about what happened and start talking about what's next. What's done is done, now move on and don't look back.
I agree. I'm going to support both because it's all still Godot and whether it's called Godot or Redot, either way it's going to be an awesome engine. And as for me, I'm all about the engine . The controversies has nothing to do with me nor my ambitions for making games.
Stop supporting woke Godot
@@cibularas3485 ppl make their own choice, and we need to respect that.
@@cibularas3485 I'll be lying if I said no
@@laujimmy9282yeah some people even support genocide.
@@cibularas3485 The whole point of Redot is to let people choose without censure. To do otherwise is to become like the fool who went nuts with the ban hammer over hurt feelings & words.
Missed opportunity to name the fork Goriot.
I'm furious one extremist ruined the brand now for millions of people. It's already an uphill battle and that person just dehumanized half of my customers. I'm honestly just going to ditch Godot. I can't risk it. These activists are destroying us man
When there is competition everyone wins.
Yeah i am don't really want engines to be overly political, so why would i choose an engine (one that is completely open source) based on a political reason.
"Picking a side" just seems a bit counter productive.
Thank you for being one of the few people on youtube that try to stay reasonable and not make statements like "It is so over" or "They burned the engine to the ground" as if the Code itself somehow god bad overnight.
I personally am a bit critical of some community decisions the Godot foundation has made, but at the end of the day they do not "own" the engine.
Only Godot is political, if your choice is for an engine that isn't based on politics, you already picked the side
@@user-xl5kd6il6c True if i picked it BECAUSE of the politics.
If you tell me "picking X is always political". Its is like making the claim that because water is transparent, if i were to use it as a coolant I as a person have a bias for transparent coolants. Its just taking a property of the thing i chose and stating it as my reson for a choice, eventhough it is not.
I'm not going to shame anyone for using Gadot. As a matter in fact I'm considering using Gadot to make a conservative-friendly/ Anti-woke game JUST to grieve them.
Ignore all of the crybabies whining about stupid Twitter drama. I'm so glad that I left Twitter. That place is nothing but a cesspool.
You're totally right, it can only be crybabies with no legitimate point, so it is a totally valid argument to just name call them, dismiss and minimize their point.
If "twitter is a cesspool" as you assert, it is likely that it became so because people engage in ad hominems and other rethorical fallacies and lack the capacity to understand that in fact they are the ones who contribute to the state of the platform.
Wait... what?
and definitely ignore the fact Godot block their donors, such a crying babies, a rich crying baby 😢
Pretty much, it's not worth the stress.@@laujimmy9282
The issue is that Godot is full of crybabies
No project deserves to survive when they block devs and donors out
At the very least this is an interesting test of Godot's commitment to open source development
I am genuinely curious - what is the point of Redot? As far as I know, it was created almost purely because of the stuff that people were complaining about Godot a little while back. Is that all? If so and there's functionally no difference between the two, why would there be any reason to switch away from Godot?
In a nutshell, there were hundreds of community suggested and uploaded submitted improvements that were waiting forever and rotting away because they were not sighted quickly enough. That is one point of discomfort, where many complain the Godot Evolution is too stagnant and slow.
The recent community thing just pushed quite a few over the edge and made them decide that Godot executives are preventing the Godot Engine from growing to it's best potential so they would make their Redot and move away from Godot over time. In the beginning it's obvious they will be very similar, but this will not necessarily be true for the future. I don't believe they will be tied to the Godot core forever.
I dont really care for all that bs going on with the Godot social media presence. Godot cant push any agenda into the games, as its just a tool, so I dont care. I only care if the product works. What I will likely do is not using the Godot logo, its ugly anyways, and not much of a "selling point" as the Unreal Logo is for example.
It can push an agenda onto the developers of that tool though. Many of the Redot developers were disallowed to work on the engine because of past comments, or even just for being white. Regardless of your opinion on that, purges are detrimental to development and this is absolutely a legitimate reason to support the apolitical side of this drama.
I can agree with how you chose to handle it though.
It has a better reputation that Unity logo, at least :D
Working with a product made by people that hate you for being white, and wants to push insane homo and gender ideology, is a form of indirect support, or tacit acceptance at best.
I'd rather see Godot gone from this earth, than use it "for the tool".
@@I2MMDL I am interested to see if you could provide examples of where they haven't allowed someone to work on the engine because they're white, if that's something that is available?
@@migo70 there were screenshots and twitter posts od devs locked out from the github, keep up
From a marketing perspective the controversy helps the Godot project as it gets better KNOWN. It may influence it's future, but it only needs to be a good enough alternative technically for the rest of the players in the engine market to take note.
From a technical perspective Redot might be a good thing as they is an opportunity to add SIMPLER layers on top of Godot. General purpose engines like Construct, Gamemaker and Gdevelop are more beginner friendly, but lack the higher end features of Godot. The same goes for specific engines like Renpy or RpgMaker.
As Godot goes after Unity it can not help to get more complex. Marketing Redot as more beginner friendly gives it a specific niece where they have to compete less.
Sadly people cant be apolotical anymore
Cuz if you are not with them you are against them
As a hobbyist game developer, I've been learning Godot for a couple years, while I work on the story of the games and writing the books they're based on. I haven't coded a significant portion of the game(s) yet.
Personally, I was willing to give Godot the benefit of the doubt, that it was just a rogue community manager running amok, but recently, the engine's co-founder came out with a pretty inflammatory personal statement (aside from the Foundation's own gaslighting response.)
In my opinion, the game engine is just a tool. I don't get involved in communities or twitter/x or discords. None of that impacted me in the least. I wouldn't care in the least what political viewpoints the lead coder has, or the Godot Foundation in general. The engine is free, open source, and has no impact on the content of my game.
However, the pendulum swing has begun in the culture war, away from the totalitarian division, exclusion and intolerance brigade (DEI, woke, etc). The bad part about this, is that the other side that the pendulum is swinging toward, has taken a page from their enemy's playbook, and are using cancel culture against them; boycotting and the like. I fully understand their position, but I also think they're going a step too far in some cases... and this is one of those cases, wherein, there are many who would now boycott games made in the Godot engine, due to the stance of the Godot Foundation.
This situation is akin to people boycotting houses made by companies that used hammers made by a woke tool company. The hammer is just a tool, but these people have been burned, and they're angry at the side that has burned them, and many are taking a scorched earth stance against things that have destroyed the things they used to love... and in this case, game developers using Godot stand to be caught as innocent bystanders in the crossfire.
What this means for me, is that, because I don't support Godot's stance, even though it's no "big deal" to me, I'm going to switch my projects over to Redot. I can see the Godot ship sinking, and I'm not going down with it. If Redot doesn't last, I'm certain a fork will arise that will stand apart from Godot for people to gather around as a refuge from the stupidity surrounding Godot. This issue is big enough to create a lasting divide.
And, EVEN IF, no progress is made on the Redot side, the current Godot engine is sufficient to create my 2D games, without ANY updates or additions... I don't need to fear stalled progress on either side.
Why community manager was allowed to create bait agenda post?
@@cibularas3485 Because the CM shares the same ideology as the co-founder, and the Board, apparently. They're already funded by investor money, between 4 and 19 million, depending on where you read... so they don't have to care about donation money.
They really don't care about offending the community, or being diverse, inclusive or tolerant of viewpoints apart from their own.
Competition is always good
Not going to be changing from Godot because of some stupid Twitter drama. Don't mind if someone does but don't really care one way or another.
People who say they do not want politics involved with game engine made a choice to fork based on a political decision, is not a worthy project to support, its just a childish tantrum. I'll stick with Godot, because development solid, plans are solid, game engine is solid. Why would you need Redot? Just because tantrum time? You fork if there is something wrong with the engine and its development but as of now there is nothing wrong with the engine and its development plans.
Plus redots icon of an angry face is self evident. These people with mental issues that exist in social space have not yet effected Godot and hence I do not worry. Godot is on the right track of development.
What happened was a social incident it is not related to engine it self.
Its NOT just based on a political decision altho the politics maked a decent amount of the creation
Redot will also supposed to make the engine better by adding features and adding those negleted by the godot devs
(like fully incorporating jolt physics engine or an alternative to make the physics engine better as an example)
REDOT wasnt fully made out of spite and hate of a political engine
(and also the redot logo was chosen in a logo competiton on discord so it could have been literaly any other logo out of lots of logos)
@JessicaSunlight👀👍🏻
I've seen Redot's website and they say the main reason to make a fork is to create a community driven engine, not a corporate driven one.
Even if you don't believe in that statement, it's an undeniable conflict of interest the fact that Juan has a business that has a strong dependency on Godot.
@@carlosleyva-calistenia6400 Over the past week+ i have been learning more about the situation and it really doesn't help matters that juan and the godot team have gone radio silent, i find that extremely aggravating as hell that juan just walks away since oct 3rd ( i mean WTF juan?!?! where you at?? i thought this was your baby) ......
but who knows, maybe juan will find a way to heal and make the godot community happy on all sides without letting a sht employee screw his company up again ((btw, fwiw; i personally believe that NAT guy is the xananax guy and went to work for the godot foundation as a trojan horse specifically to make all godot game devs loose faith in the godot engine and therefore scam the majority of those who left unity3d to go 'back' to unity3d because the timing of unity's announcement of their complete removal of the 'unity tax' is just by far TOO coincidental))..........
it is obvious that all of us have no choice but to just sit around and wait to see what's going to happen next ___however; that said, i have zero faith in the two redot guys and most specifically because the bulk of godot engineers have not switched from godot to that redot fork and thus withOUT engineers that passionately work both individually and collaboratively on any FOSS project then that project is doomed THerefore my viewpoint on the whole situation with godot AND all the forks of it boils down to this simple question: :::
"WILL the many hundreds of active godot engine engineers continue working with godot engine OR will they pick a new fork and if so then WHICH fork will they go to develop for?"
** because THAT is the only place we can expect to have a working godot engine regardless of its name!!!
and i will also say this: "IF" those two redot guys succeed in getting the godot engineers to join their redot fork of godot engine then i will give the redot a full consideration
____BUT : i don't believe that will happen ------
lets all just wait and see BEFORE making our final decision on where to go next...
REMEMBER THIS: it is THE ENGINEERS of the Godot Engine who we must be excited about so wherever they go, that's where we should go. PERIOD
Unreal!! 💯💯💯
I agree with your points completely..
Your measured approach is appreciated, but PLEASE don't feel the need to stop producing Godot content out of a fear of 'review bombing'. I haven't heard much about the Redot project, but I also have not seen any actual serious developers interested in basically a copy of the existing engine but with a red icon.
There are people obsessed with Twitter drama that might leave nasty comments, but there are MORE actual devs happily using the same engine we've happily been using for years and enjoy more RUclips content about it. ❤
Yeah, and (at least initially) any Godot tutorials will be relevant to Redot as well.
Well, all forks start out as "basically a copy" of the original project from which they're forked. But the more they are independently developed, they will diverge more and more until they become substantially different. Considering that Godot has refused for years to merge numerous pull requests, to fix numerous bugs, and to add highly requested features-all things that Redot has already pledged to do from the jump-it won't take long for the two to diverge and for Redot to take the lead. The Godot team remains in love with the "waiting for Godot" mystique whereas the Redot team wants to focus on developing a good engine.
best to seperate the engine from twitter and focus on making a game. i am curios tho what redot will turn out as
I can’t with this culture war bullshit and the fact one split from the other I’m inclined to think the people splitting are the more difficult people to work with, I’ll be sticking with Godot
100%
This thing feels a bit like the fork of Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. Created a lot of drama at the time and showed a lot of people to be bad actors.
Where is Bitcoin Cash today?
Give me a break, godot was banning people in the discord for saying "you guys" because its gendered..
@@Sumojoe-g3q Not to mention these people were already splitting off BECAUSE godot's creator is hard to work with, with a lot of ignored pull requests, etc.
@@Sumojoe-g3q No they weren't lmao.
@@MRDaved No they weren't lmao.
Godot ban supporters
They did not ban supporters. Anyone can go and download the engine.
All of that blocking happened on twitter, not in on the tool (if it's even possible to block someone from using a piece of software)
@@maikha8963 Nope. Blocking happend on github as well.
I'm still using Godot. Redot is Godot in everything but name, money, and experience. While it seems that Redot is trying to make a CE (community edition) of upstream I find it odd that they wanted to remove themselves from Godot while staying firmly pressed against it. So are they going to take without supporting core? Will that just be leeching? Would that be supporting their politics? What happens when donations are up and running and Godot gives them money?
This whole things is like an 8 year old kid running away from home just to end up living in a tent in the yard. One set up by their parents. Brought them their sleeping bag and food, and left the door unlocked.
👍🏻
They could have supported, but everyone that tried to be at least "apolitical" got banned, in all channels. X, discord, I think even github.
Still I think they're unbanning people, but some trust was lost.
We should use what has been working up to now.
We'll see if Redot is truly apolitical and what kinda changes that brings.
They're "community driven" supposedly.
I'm so sorry your fledgling channel got caught up in the crossfire. So much drama for no good reason. Keep making good things and stay well.
The drama was way overblown.
not at all
Yea, the Godot team could've handled it without antagonizing people and pissing everyone off. Well,... the CM could've not caused this whole mess in the first place.
What a nonsense, create a whole new engine just because you got involved in some drama, don't get me wrong, its smart move to take advantage of a company backlash to profit from the chaos, but lets be real here, redot has no future as an engine, its reason foundation is weak and the ones in charge are just some random people with some little knowledge about forking.
Godot is on hand of extremely versatile and capable developers and will continue to grow, leeches side projects of course will occur, but thats about it.
@En0834🤣🤣👍🏻👍🏻
What is REDOT? What have they done for I will staet to trust that? GODOT team is working many years and making good free game engine.
Redot is the correct answer
I don't see Redot attracting enough developers to have enough reason to switch to it. The way I see it right now, it's just going to copy every update that Godot releases. Worse yet, it will likely lag behind every Godot version since Redot will have to tweak the update to change the logo and name everytime. But the worst situation is that Redot's primary developers eventually lose interest, and then the fork gets abandoned. I've seen this happen countless times with other open-source projects. Developers determine what gets developed. If Redot doesn't have anyone actually working on it to make it stand out, then there's no point in using it. Maybe developers will pick up Redot and make unique updates, but I don't see that happening.
Competition is good monopoly is bad, it's that simple
Godot is open-source for that reason. copying the open-source code and branding yourself as "anti-woke" while launching a hate campaign on the "competition" (where they will copy every major update from) won't go as far you think as compared to Godot's hundreds of collaborators
If you only care about the tech, and especially if you're already heavily invested in Godot, then it really doesn't matter which you pick. However, the toxic nature of certain people who keep infesting everything tells me that I'm right to not recommend either to newbies. I'm going to keep recommending one of the open source Doom or Quake engines. The lack of continued development shouldn't be a deterrant for anyone since it just means they're stable.
As for why I still wouldn't recommend Redot, that's because we can expect that Godot will make a breaking change in the very near future which prevents the two from interoperating. Such is the nature of toxic activism in these "modern" times.
8 minutes to choose Redot over w0ke godot? For reall?
free and open source tool that provides less than a quarter of what the competition does is easy enough for me to throw in the bin and never worry about this matter again.
As if even 5% of the indie dev market will ever hit the price cap of 1 million dollars that Unreal begins to charge their paltry 5% royalty.
I think you're being a bit silly here. Yeah, some people use the fees as a reason for Godot but that's not the whole story, and saying the engine offers less than a quarter of what the competition does is just not true.
Godot offers a really streamlined pipeline with other software, and the fact it's open-sourced means instead of being limited by what the engine offers, you can simply add the features, compatibility, and support you want to the engine and drive the development of it further than the closed source alternatives.
The only thing it lacks imo is a diverse creators marketplace but that's to be expected with a smaller community and to be honest, is a blessing if anything because Unity has a rep for low quality asset grab copy paste games.
@@sayatoshi Unreal Engine has completely modifiable source code. Absolutely nothing stopping you except skillset.
Godot doesn't offer a pipeline that has even half of the industry standards.
Unreal Engine can be used without almost any feature, you can even disable the renderer entirely.
Marketplace is irrelevant to the discussion anyways as most marketplace assets are interchangeable between engines, especially if you can extrapolate logical setups.
Unity is a piece of garbage and still offers more industry standards than Godot,
I would stop trying to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. It's lacking in many departments and that is so apparent it should go without saying.
@@Mad_Catter_ Not defending anything, I don't contribute to the Godot main branch lol, but you're just making statements with no backing so I'm replying to see if you can give some more information besides just "doesn't meet standards" and "lacks features". What exactly is lacking?
@@sayatoshi I believe you still have the burden of proof in your statement as well. I could go on for days about what godot lacks in terms of AAA standards, integrations and high fidelity but it sounds like you just want to argue for absolutely no reason other than typing on your keyboard.
There's literally no point in conversing with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.
@@Mad_Catter_ I think we both know you're saying this because you don't know the answer to my question lmao
im starting to doubt if ur even a dev tbh lol
I will be supporting Redot (12+ years C++ dev here, I use an alias on YT precisely because the culture war makes it stupid hard to get your opinions out there),
me too, also competition is always good
Redot not banning for politics so by default you are forced to be on Redot if you are banned otherwise you can stay netural. I think at this point Unity is better again. At this point, I am considering Unity because more jobs are in Unity.
Redot is nothing though. Inaccessible website. No commits. No commitment. Not even a brand/logo change in the repo.
Give it time, I guess.
give it time buddy
The drama made me find your channel and you gained a new subscriper that are looking forward to more content that I can have use of in my Godot programming.
It is easy to forget that this drama is not massive outside of certain groups and X, in the cases it has spread to new people it has in many cases instead made a lot of people see the strengths or potential strengths of Godot. Godot official discord have gained a lot of people and Godot foundation have increased it support (in supporters the last few days, slowly but still goes up). Do I think Godot made the right thing blocking a few (was not many) from the Github, No! That was a massively stupid move and plain wrong to do. However, I think it is easy to overact in this because there are a very active group trying to actively making this a bigger thing than it is. So please just continue doing what you are doing.
This case is not as simple though, if it was for example, Movie watchers, then you can say most are offline, you can't say that of gamers, but even more damning, you can't say that of game developers, game developers are not only less in overall quantity but they have more online presence and interact more than any other demographic with the online communities. So while a thousand random twitter people would be a small sample for movies or comics or whatever, that's not the case for software developers.
I just need an engine to work with and not trying to choose a political side. Since they are both still doing the same thing at the present, I'll stick with the original Godot.
It wouldn't be hard to surpass godot. It has so many technical issue I am constantly running into. Once I finish my current game, I'll go back to searching for a different engine, or make my own.
I don't think Redot is equipped to thrive on its own and if I have to use a rebranded copy of Godot I would probably stick to the og. I am a UE dev, but I follow Godot with curiosity. The same big shift that happened toward Blender in 3d art could come one day toward Godot for game engines. Open source projects like this one are rare gems and need to be protected for the industry as a whole.
@NazzarenoGiannelliCG👍🏻
who cares about this stupid controversy just create godot tutorial content and games. This is why i don't pay attention to politics it just gets people angry and geared up in endless stupid arguments, completely pointless and unproductive.
fk yeah
Banned
@@Glomly i'm scared as hell xdxdxddd
@@Glomlyyou are using spaces instead of tabs, you are banned.
It doesn't matter if y ou don't want to be involved in politics. One way or another politics will involve itself with y ou.
It sad that problem is not solve for CM in still abuse of power. CM broken many rules and self fish. Just Godot engine is victims and different from good and evil but depend on the person use power or abuse it. Just the few group have power to spam DEI stuff in channel and does not repent of those mods abuses. Just the core people are bad but the dev strangers are good people trying to make their game project their own style.
You should ignore any negativity and just keep creating in either and make your videos have the title of both Godot/Redot instead of one or the other. For a while at least, Redot IS Godot so anything you do should work in both. Ideally Redot will eventually have features Godot does not, then it may be worth switching fully to Redot. But until then it really doesn't matter. And if Redot fizzles out from lack of support instead, you can just drop the Redot and act like it never happened. 😆
I think Redot has some potential though. Despite what nay-sayers think, the main devs seem to be doing a good job of fending off the negativity toward them while also maintaining a pretty neutral, game dev only, no politics approach. So if they do manage to keep the core in-line with Godot, while also building on modules people have wanted for years all while keeping the community dev-focused... could work out. Of course Godot itself can always pull back the new features, the problem is they've shown for years now that they won't.
Well, now that redot has unfortunately lost their entire dev team, it wasn't too hard to choose. Not that there was much of a choice. Revenge forks don't succeed generally and this was no different
I don't know anything about this redot engine, and my first impression is that these guys are not going to last a mile. Unless they already have a heavy development background, they have no funds, just volunteers, and what will they be adding exactly. How is this messaging nonsense effecting core Godot functionality, that it needs to be forked? Seems like a hype train, with soemone somewhere hoping to get rich. But who knows, maybe they are the real deal. I certainly didn't hear anything technical in the audio.
@xfKYZacTri they are trump supporters and lolicons.
This project is made purely out of spite and to "epicly own" people. It's going to fall off so hard
With all these opinions, there is definitely no doubt that woke only leads people to say absurd things.
If Redot gets good developers, it would surpass Godot in record time, given that Godot's own developers still have not incorporated solutions that have been proposed to them for some time now to solve several errors that the engine has.
@@ragnarrandom7367 ok ki ddy to ucher.
@@slumburger1145 many great things were done out of spite.
A game engine and various applications grow and improve with a community, especially if it's open source. You can't separate them, particularly if your idea is for the engine to expand through collaboration. So just because something is free doesn’t mean you should tolerate things that hinder the environment you also rely on. With that in mind, if the community becomes divided or unsustainable due to the ideologies of the engine’s developers or idiots they support, politicizing or injecting ridiculous ideologies into the engine, then it’s time to either boycott, stop using the engine, or create (as in this case) an alternative that provides the proper space.
I dont want UE/Unity declare - we are pro/against
Honestly, the notion that you can't separate a tool from its community in open source makes me not want to use any open source software ever again XD
@@SylvanFeanturi That's how I feel. I'd rather have the software be closed-source and fully paid, with a specific team working on the engine that I can hold accountable for my money, instead of dealing with random people with mental issues like Xananax, haha. That's the problem with anything "community-driven".
where'd you find the redot logo?
It is from the Redot X account itself. They posted it there a few days ago.
The Redot community made a contest and that one was the winner.
id choose the version whos not gonna involve itself politically inside my work.
THAT particular strain of cancer historically consumes its host.
I think you did a very good job handling this situation. It would have been easy to be bitter after taking collateral damage from the Godot controversy, but you stayed cool and made a fair and informative video. I'm really excited to switch to Redot! And I went ahead and subbed so I can catch your Redot-related content when it comes out.
Im not updated on the godot news so if someone can id love to hear it but no matter what im going to use godot 4.3 lol I do not care what they do
Woke queers supporteer?
@@cibularas3485 I still dont really understand whats happening
@darkvoid4017 in a nutshell: the redot guys are just scammers trying to destroy the massive popularity that Godot has amassed over the passed year since the board of directors at unity3d nuked unity3d with the "unity tax", you can just ignore them if you like because godot is going strong and development of godot remains normal operations. btw; imho i personally believe the unity board of directors are behind the whole hoax in a desperate attempt to reclaim lost unity devs who went to godot a year ago. i partially base that on the idea that unity just got rid of the "unity tax" and are trying to release a new unity version.... they clearly bit off more than they can chew and from what i hear, their stakeholders are not happy!
If your a developer, forget the politics and just make a game. Unless of course those politics directly affect development and sales.
As a developer dont want engines pushing agenda
Literally what is the point of redot
@goldsocks9999 i personally believe the only point of that redot idea is to try and scam away as many godot devd as possible away from using godot and obviously because of the fact that godot is surprising unity3d by a lot in popularity.
Get people mad over a made up/insignificant issue, lead them to your new, non-woke thing, ask for money for support, profit
i.e. the Grummz method
Just stick with godot, the drama is just that. The community isnt "on fire".
Get off the anti woke train. Godot posted a meme as a response to a nonsense anti woke post, if you cant handle that enjoy crying on your keyboards.
The community manager banned people for saying they're not political and upon reevaluation people found this person threatened others with violence for years. Even people on the left think that's gone too far. I'm so angry. I now have to abandon my project because of this story turning people off from Godot games
I still want to believe that all this chaos will be resolved. Having two basically identical game engine is pointless,
Nobody cares if a game-dev is n4zy or w0k3, people want to make games and have a community where they can talk about games and gamedev. Why we can't leave the political stuff on the personal profiles?
Godot is simply open source software that had a bad CM.
Redot is a fork created because of political beliefs.
@@gracechan3039 The high ups at Godot have shown their true colors though, so more people will go to redot.
@@gracechan3039 You mean apolitical beliefs.
@@gracechan3039 Yep, the "political belief" that it's not okay to demonize millions of people because the TV told you to.
Thanks. Good video. You forgot that there are people who aren't going to use either of them "dot" engines.
Godot is dead because you can't have an open source project where maintainers screw over their own community. But it's not all roses on the development side either. Which is why the number of bugs only grow and why implementing new features is so slow.
It was clear right from the establishment of Redot that it's not going to drift too far from Godot code wise. Unless they manage to bring over most of the community and resources then there's not much hope for them either.
Fortunately there are other game engines. Even other open source engines.
I gonna use both redot and godot for making my game because I can't afford unity.
unity is free
@@umon7751 Unless you make money
so unity is free
To both of you saying unity is free, it only is free until unity decides it isnt. That's right, unity is not a free engine, they control it instead of you, the user. They can do whatever they want and they will change the license whenever and however they want. This is why open source matters. You, the user, are still in control over how your godot works, no matter what twitter says.
@@utfigyii5987 Are you going to release your game as open source?
You understand.
Don't get discouraged. Just focus on the technical side of things and it will benefit the ecosystem as a whole.
Redot is the only choice, I will not support any indie games that use Godot. Get woke go broke.
Okay
As long as Redot uses C++ for programming, this won't be an option. But let's see what's next. A third player would certainly be interesting too. The waters of the hostrionic drama are slowly settling. Luckily it's all open source. We'll see what comes. 🤓
The absurd thing is that the reasons that many people give for abandoning Godot are to transfer a controversy that arises from the community's social networks to the engine itself, as if that affected and came from the development and programming process of the engine... which is absurd. What's more, if we go back to the origin of these events, it all started because all general engines were accused of being "woke" (unity, unreal, godot and by extension redot), which is also absurd. The good thing about redot existing is that it allows us to see development lines that can enrich the redot and godot environment.
This kind of stuff is happening everywhere.
Just look at the Pygame (Pygame-CE) dama... basically the same thing.
Now i'm scared to even try some programming languages (i'm talking to you, Rust).
Can we go back to the TABS x SPACES war?
Redot is just a brand new fork there's no reason to even pay them attention, like Linus once said, talk is cheap, show me the code, also as long as Godot is open-source and given away with the MIT license they physically CANNOT prevent you from using it no matter how much their Discord mods dislike you.
The most their weird mods can do is ban you from the discord which is not the end of the world anyways.
If being banned from a discord and not being able to get instant support upsets you then really you need to be looking at tools with support included as a paid feature that cannot be revoked at a whim without legal consequences and in that respect i'd bypass Godot or any of its' forks entirely.
The fork makes sense for people concerned about being banned from contributing to Godot but Redot doesn't explicitely say it will not reject any PRs on political issues or ban anyone for anything they believe or have said in private or public, so they don't really fix the problem they're just taking advantage of the publicity.
If you wanna fix the situation you need a fork that EXPLICITELY says it will never get involved in political matters and will actively disregard anything about any contributor other than the code they submit, and then you couple that with another Discord with a similar motto, Redot hasn't done that yet so i'm not paying attention
"For all our new members and existing members, we want to discuss exactly what the philosophy and reason behind Redot is, and why we're here.
This fork is ultimately about solving the issues developers had with the direction of the Godot Engine. While in many ways recent events have led to this, in reality it was the straw that broke the camel's back (specifically the blocking of donors/GitHub users). Many users have been disenfranchised by the lack of initiative and direction with Godot's Leadership for quite some time, including a high developer turnover rate, and pull requests not being merged in a timely matter.
With the GitHub bans and blocks/banning from Twitter and Discord, a part of the community's trust was broken, and this is the outcome. Similar to the Unity debacle, many are now looking for a new home. A more stable home. And we want to welcome those people here.
Please refrain from the political talk moving forward. Regardless whether they're a radical on the left side or the right side, they have one thing in common: They cry and complain and nothing gets done as a result. I've seen communities from both ends of the spectrum end up turning into nothing but an echo chamber and nothing getting done.
Let's worry about getting things done. Let's make Redot the best engine it can possibly be moving forward."
*_"If you wanna fix the situation you need a fork that EXPLICITELY says it will never get involved in political matters"_*
That's actually part of Redot's goals, mate. It has been explicitly stated countless times. It's even a rule on their discord "no politics".
"If you wanna fix the situation you need a fork that explicity says it will never get involved in political matters"
Buddy have you researched what is redot at all in my opinion redot as a fork has 3 goals
-NO politics and things like that
-help and realize suggestion LONG ignored by the godot team
-MAK better and MAK better
GAM ENGINE
@liquidsnake6879 you are 100% absolutely right! You put it very clear too, thanks for not falling victim to the redotScammers #GodotRocks #RedotIsFake
Redot hasnt done unique anything in 7 years
Where to Download Redot Engine?
It is not downloadable yet. They are working on it not sure if you are on X, but here is the latest post about this stating they are testing the build for release
x.com/Andevrs/status/1843470087535448216
"./home/ScamArtistNumbNuts/Godot_Extracted_files/newNameForGodotGoesHereBecause_I'M_tooDumbToGoUpOneFolderAndHitRename"
oh wait, did mean on windows? 🤔🤣🤣
The main reason for Redot's existence is politics, which is not the case for Godot.
redot is not ready, at list i dont have any other choise right now, because godot is soo good and easy to use, i never learned any other engine.
Unity was good too until they changed ToS to demand payment post-fact based on install.
Well, now that godot took that stance everyone will think that it's just that. And every one who still stays with godot will be automatically considered an activist which is an opposite of good product.
I found it telling that browsing the redot x page for 5 minutes saw a handful of slurs being thrown out towards people they saw as "woke" (queer in some way or another) tbh. The one godot CM went overboard imo, but that was an unofficial community that godot itself denounced. I'm sure people got hit with bans that didn't deserve it, but the ones who DID deserve it often will be the loudest whining about how they didn't.
Oh no. It suddenly became unofficial when this happened
You don't know the story straight, though. Godot's CM is the person using Godot's official X account (the one that caused this mess). The person they denounced was a discord mod, but the discord has actually been official for years. They lied about that. There are archived versions of the community page showing this.
There are slur on all sides. Please understand that. But most people were actually not being aggressive toward Godot at the beginning. Barely anyone deserved a ban or block. But they pissed people off by blocking and banning them just for asking to keep Godot out of politics, and then even more so for being dishonest in their public statements, and even more for antagonizing them further in their mastodon messages.
If you see slurs, that's the reason. Don't blame people for being rightfully pissed off. And woke people call themselves woke, it's not other people that see them as woke.
Lmao. I grew up on 4Chan and Something Awful. A community around a game engine where people call each other slurs and laugh about it is the exact thing I want
@@EZO.FUZZ.IS.OFFLINE bless
@graydhd8688 ignore the other replies, they are biased or bots... you actually got it 100% right and if the redot scammers were honest then they would comment so instead of treating you the way they just did. #GodotRocks!!
I don't know who went out of their way to make you feel like a scumbag for not picking Redot. That's not the spirit of any of the material put forth by the Redot people I've interacted with.
We expect many people will still use Godot long after the Redot fork is published.
To be very clear, the point is not to have founders that don't have their own politics.
The point is to NOT use the game engine as a way to pilot those politics.
Godot or Redot.
Redot's community discourages feeding into political conversations into the community. Speaking about politics -generally- is OK but hot-button topics get moderated, and when a conversation gets too heated, everyone gets chilled out by the mods. It's not biased. That's a big deal. Speaking about political opinions will provoke the mods. Regardless of bias.
Granted, there are a lot of people who don't subscribe to the politics of the official Godot server and Godot Cafe. Still, Redot moderators tend to discourage any politics / ideology at all, other than cursory, general discussion on the matter.
And toxic reaction bombing isn't something I've experienced on Redot's server. Having an opinion in either of the major Godot communities meant having almost exclusively negative reactions.
Redot is working on community workshops to help game devs break into the programming, 3D modeling, and artistic workspaces. For the interim, everything happening in Redot's community supports Godot, and will continue to support Godot dev long after Redot's fork is officially released.
So even if you don't buy into the engine, the Redot community is gangbusters. Several thousand members within a few days have joined the Discord. It's still growing.
All are welcome, just keep your politics to yourself, your biases and your personal life choices aren't on the table for the vast majority of what the server offers.
Join, ask game dev questions. We have people working in Unity, Unreal, Godot, and several people even have their own game engines. People are sharing experience in C#, C++, ART, 3D modeling, and more.
Redot is much more than just a fork of a game engine already. I can't wait to see what it becomes. I'm here for it.
I don't represent Redot and have no affiliation, even though I would like to, I'm speaking of my own personal experiences.
I don't see any point in switching from GODOT to REDOT. If it’s so important not to use GODOT, then why not UNITY or UNREAL ENGINE? They will be better than some incomprehensible GODOT clone. I’m not switching, I don’t care about this overclocking, I’m not using any of the things listed where this conflict started.
@PostEater awesomely put pal! 👍🏻
I still think redot could be beneficial. Godot has a massive backlog of PRs that contain fixes and improvements that haven’t been added if redot adds them then its a win for users who’ve been waiting for thos fixes and improvements to be added to godot
Thats always been my biggest issue with godot is that they have slept on so many fixes and improvements due to much backlog or the devs not thinking it’s important enough
@@tux_the_astronaut Without funding and specialists, they are unlikely to be able to do this. And even if they can do this, all these upgrades will be able to add in Godot, because both platforms will be open source.
But the main problem is time, since Godot has already lasted long enough to be trusted, and Redot could collapse at any moment - the hype will subside, and the platform may stop supporting updates.
In words, of course, it’s good to add updates suggested by users, but in practice a lot of performance and compatibility problems may arise -
it's not that simple.
Just remember: Redot is the "apolitical engine" that
-Was born from political drama
-Followed, begged for the attention of, and constantly reposts Mark Kern/Grummz
-Advertised exclusively to anti-woke culture war non-devs who review bombed Godot
-Has literally nothing posted or talked about in terms of technical details other than vague ideas, half of which don't even make sense to actual devs but sound good to non-devs
-Has constantly posted and reposted drama and self-victimization to fan the flames of drama and anti-woke culture war support.
Redot is going to harm the industry greatly, if it doesn't immediately fizzle out.
How long till y ou start calling anybody making use of Redot a na zi?
Just remember, nobody in the Godot discord had a problem with repeated uses of the hard-r slur.
Redot is alerady anti/pro wake?
@@wrongthinker843 neither do i, but that doesnt build repore with people they already banned fpr not bowing dpwn to their religion.
@@guillermoelnino Then I wouldn't really want to associate with you either.
I really appreciate the neutrality. The issue with all of this is politics. It seems that the people around the development of Godot does not accept any different opinion to theirs. I'm just new to all of this, and What I got is that Godot is getting behind and They are not listening with feedback from the community, Redot is born because of these grievances and their main message is: Just games no bullshit.
It's not an issue if people have different political views or opinions, the issue is when these believe are affecting the development of the tool or favoring one group over the other.
I won't support Godot because the community is toxic and their naturally toxic behaviour have hindered the progress of Godot itself, even if they're receiving so much money. They're likely squandering them and the effort put in is less than the worth of donations and progress of the game engine itself. They're all literally deadwoods now.
At the moment, there seems to be no problem in using Godot to produce games.
However, the Woke Activists have messed up SCE and UBI SOFT over time.
Donations from supporters may not be used for the Godot Engine.
I fear that the development of the Godot Engine will stall.
Redot it is
The problem is, is Godot still a free (as in freedom, not free beer like Unity) game engine, when they actively block users from accessing the code base on GitHub simply because they don't agree with their political agenda?
You can say that your support (whether you think you mean it or not, making content for it is supporting) to Godot doesn't mean you support their political agenda, but like it or not from the outside it would look the same as saying you support German but doesn't support Nazism during WW2.
So, if you don't want to get involved in this controversy, just stay out of it. There's no need for pointless hypocrisy.
Germany were natsi
Redot has no new feature compared to Godot, so this point is moot.
Redot es inevitable.
WTH is REDOT?
an anti-woke fork of godot
@@davidak_de Its supposed to be politically neutral, woke people are welcome in the redot community.... where as you get banned from the godot discord for using gendered terms like "you guys"
the answer
@@davidak_de Antipolitical fork, just mak gam.
@@davidak_de apolitical*
is there a good video to show the difference between godot and redot
Not yet. As far as I know, Redot can not even be downloaded yet as an executable program. But all they are currently doing is making a copy of Godot, no changes have been implemented yet. So in a way, your answer is: there are no differences as of now from a technical point of view.
@@LioGoesIndie ah thanks for the very fast response
I commented that there is no difference but my comment seems to have been deleted :/
If you look at the redot GitHub they didn’t even change the Readme. It still says Godot and has the godot logo.
When you think logically about both projects being open source software projects, what features is Redot planning to ship that Godot is not? Who is the Redot dev team? What is their timeline? How does moving to Redot benefit the user compared to sticking with Godot (assuming they are currently using Godot).
Looking forward to seeing what they produce.
@@gracechan3039 all very good questions and at this points everyones guess.
The good thing is, Redot seems to acknowledge this and aparently want to prove themselves by their actions and not their words.
So it seems we'll have to wait until Redot takes action to answer those questions.
The real day and night difference at this moment is the community.
I was blocked by Godot on Twitter on Sunday September 29th, 2024. I hadn't even logged not twitter for _seventeen months_ at that point, and I'd _never_ posted or commented on Godot's Twitter. I barely use Twitter and my post/reply history wouldn't have anything hateful even if I did.
On Reddit, apparently r/godot is preemptively blocking anyone who also follows r/conservative.
Besides the political targeting (which isn't just against conservatives, but anyone who isn't _insanely_ leftist), they're also banning anyone who has any criticism or constructive feedback of the tech at all. Ask them about a long-requested feature that's collecting dust in the PR backlog? Banned.
Contrasty, on the Redot side, everyone's chill and they talk _exclusively about game development_ (Imagine that, game dev chat in a _game dev_ community).
The fork was mostly championed by gamers who are used to extracting power through reviewbombs and the like. The problem with that strategy of getting what you want is that large open source projects are always operated by politically-minded people(despite Juan's statement) because the technical arguments are usually placeholders for arguments over language - the right idioms, terms, etc. If you already have the right definition of a coding problem, then you also have the solution. Programmers are frequently lawyering each other over what is "proper" and "best practice" as a way of taking credit for how a problem is solved, and when corporate interests are in play(as is the case with Godot's current funding) the reasons why a certain decision must be made become obfuscated behind conflicts of interest. Most users of open source are unaware of those internal political discussions, they are just downstream consumers. But they result in a power structure where the core devs are feudalistic and run ahead by crafting complex language within and around the code so that subsequent changes must go through them. The culture war side of it is simply one more "operational theatre" of that conflict, and the natural tendency is going to be to look towards the corporate stakeholders for instructions since they are funding the show.
So, Redot is not wrong to try to break away and claim space over the culture, but its most likely trajectory is to just be a lightly rebranded distribution.
The reason why large software projects are a thing is because you get features in exchange for all of that ruckus. Everyone complains about it. Then they use it anyway.
I would like to see a redot tutorial
go watch any tutorial for godot, it will be exactly the same
@@mastrio5772 no I meant in the future
I mean to make a fork means nothing.. will be they able to make a team, make own website, documentations, update, upgrade engine ... for it doesn't matter I am Unreal dev
Yeap they can
Team-a lot of team aplications
Documentation-it will be basically identical to godot for a few months so not a problem for now
Website- work in progress but it looks quite good the demos
Update- if they have the passion they can
Upgrade- alot of help and ideas
Good and level-headed answer. No need to create a fight between them. I see no reason to switch to Redot personally but also see no problem in people who do.
I hope they bring back visual scripting for this alternative engine that they had once before but they took out.
Competition is always good, may the best opensource engine wins.
I’m focusing on c#. If ReDot launches a good product I am jumping in both feet first. However I may end up in unity ultimately. But I love the ease of use of Godot, but I can’t use the software knowing full well they hate people like me.