I love the concept of dividing your game into smaller games, not only you're developing that big game you always dreamed of, you are doing it in a way that doesn't become overwhelming because of the small focus. I am doing an RPG, but really, right now i am developing a dress-up game for character creator, i don't have to think of a combat system, a map, a progression, etc.
@@ultimaxkom8728 Is focusing on character aesthetics for a "Roleplaying game" scope creep? Wouldn't it be a fitting mechanic? You know, for literal roleplay? Also it's just a normal character creator, but clothes and armor is done together as part of a standalone game.
@@NoizzedExactly. Character customization is very common in RPGs, especially in the West. And even if it doesn’t work well in the dream RPG project, it can be used for other projects.
The reason why many indies are never finished is because the developer will create assets, music, polish, etc. instead of focusing on the core game design, so once they get around to mechanics, programming, and game design, they either end up not knowing what to do next or with a game that is not fun to play even if it looks nice. The solution is putting your focus on the actual gameplay, mechanics, and game design so that you know if the game is actually fun and a good idea before polishing the game. Polish can make a fun/good game better, but it can't make an unfun/bad game good.
This is a topic very dear to my heart as I've struggled with projects of various natures for decades. One thing I often see missing in such advice is "find out what gets you started and what keeps you going". I used to be very freeform and jumped right into making rather than planning. I ended with multiple unfinished projects and lots of assets. I kept jumping from project to project, following the shinies. Then I read an article about planning first, outlining, have the start and end and fill in the middle, as well as self imposed deadlines. Tried applying that for years and felt like even more of a failure because I couldn't keep to it. Deadlines and outlining just made realize the true scope of my projects and immediately killed my motivation. Sadly, reducing scope turned projects into something I just had no passion for. Result: still no finished project, but worse: no assets! Sure, I avoided throwing myself into unfinishable projects, but I also robbed myself of motivation to create anything else! My prior failed unplanned projects at least yielded art, character concepts, story drafts etc... I was actually *training* and having fun doing so. The grandiose ideas I had may never congeal into a whole game, but they were *motivating* and giving me context for all the smaller stuff I was doing. Perhaps I'll never make a game of a scope I consider worthy, but I've started wondering how much that matters. Maybe creating assets for an imaginary crazy project is just where I find my fun? So, my advice, I guess, is to find what works for you, and to not let the fun parts be eclipsed by something else!
i published my very first game jam literally 9 hours ago, i have to say that it's so gratifying to actually have a game, even a small, barebones prototype, out there for people to play rate and enjoy!
When i used to make games, i had a simple solution to avoid it and have finished games: 0 - have a design document with the outline of the story 1 - start working on the intro and the ending first 2 - having them done, roughly fill in the middle with the content that will lead one point of the story to the other 3 - lastly, polish it up and add extra content, like side quests If in the middle, i decided to have a bigger scope and implement something that would burn me out on the game, it would be basically finished anyway.
This is actually really clever trick for making RPGs! When I developed a twin-stick shooter I found it more helpful to just start with the basic mechanics without worrying about where I was going. I made a player controller. I made an enemy AI that literally just moved towards you and insta-killed you on contact. Did I have a cool idea for a dodge move? I would add it right then and there. By not worrying about polish or anything else that was not directly related to my current gameplay, I was able to create a very quick and enjoyable prototype. If I remember correctly, Splatoon also just started off as an internal game jam where you controlled these moving default cubes that shot grey goop. A first prototype doesn't have to have any assets or story planned out. Find the fun first, worry about adding content second.
@@il-ma.le. rather then trying to come back to it perhaps you should make a text document of things you want to remind your self of. that way if you are feeling lost you can come back to your text document for inspiration and management of your self. you could organize them by the effect they have on you and program your self choosing they way you will feel, not reacting to reality. I am a cult leader and I could help you out with this if you really want to achieve "the correct path".
@@yarpen26 I like how I commented on this video thinking "eh, this video will have 200 views max, no one will read it", only to be flooded by likes from it's growing audience. Also, ha, you got em.
I find that I usually start with a big scope that creeps backward as I realize which parts are not feasible or beyond either my skill or what one person can do on their own -- or in some cases which idea wouldn't really add much to the final game.
Indie studio here! What a nice and necessary video. Indeed, in looking at our peers, we'd say one of the biggest issues when starting in gamedev is aiming for too big of a scope. Keep it simple and only go for more complex projects once you have some experience. We wanted to share that this philosophy is so important, that we even have a part in our processes we appreciate deeply, that we call "jettisoning". Usually, once we've spent months working on a project, we always force ourselves to be very open to the practice of just removing entire features and segments of our initial vision. We ask ourselves if stuff that we've deemed "NECESSARY" isn't that important to begin with. Usually you envision the project at first and without realizing, you end up holding all the entirety of such vision as sacred and inamovible. Truth is your project doesn't exist yet, therefore people isn't expecting nothing specific. Maybe this feature can be removed; maybe the game will be amazing with 5 levels instead of the 10 you firstly imagined. Of course bottom line is whatever you release gotta feel complete. But sometimes we started up envisioning something that was 130% of what would feel complete, and removing that extra 30% can make your life easier, or even be what allows you to actually finish the project. Don't be afraid of removing things, even if maybe you fell in love with them and ended up seeing them as necessary. Revisit them with critical eye and ask yourself if this or that could be removed to make the production more feasible. And hey, if that 130% first vision is easily achievable... go for it! But sometimes that difference between your first vision and a revised scope with some content/featured removed can save you from financial struggle, mental health hurdles, or even failing to ever finishing the project. It's that legendary piece of wisdom for project management: "Perfect is the enemy of good".
Something that's really working for me is that I make all my projects sub modules of a master project. Anytime I work on a feature or game it ends up being useful in all my other projects.
I'm gonna make the next big thing that replaces Pokemon and Minecraft. I have never made a game before. I'm still 100% confident it will happen. My secret: being bipolar and having a hypomanic episode
I could not relate more. I've probably thought of over 10 games and each time I get good ideas I either get another idea for something else or procrastinate lol. This is going to be a big help, Thanks!
Cool video, I was apprehensive at first when I started watching, because I thought it would just be the same type of advice I've heard before. I'm in exams rn, but soon the summer will embrace me, and I'll have plenty of time to make a game!
I do TTRPGs and I think this applies to them as well. Sometimes I can get so caught up in details that have nothing to do with the area of the world I'm writing for that it basically paralyzes me for weeks and sometimes months on end.
I love how RUclips recommends this video right as I finished feeling overwhelmed by my project I decided to rewrite it to increase the complexity. I am actually currently going through the endless hole of scope creep.
great video. Definitely true, I wish someone had told me this when I started trying to make games! Making small games is really fun, and making them instead of your big games doesn't mean you do not have to be passionate about those smaller projects.
I know the feeling. Am working on my first game, and I’ve already started with what can be considered an over ambitious concept. The current goal is to finish the gameplay loop (aka vertical slice) but I get stuck in making optimizations, because I’m not an expert programmer and when I learn a better way of doing things, I go back to fix some of my old code.
As a game dev, while you should play to your strengths, you should NOT let them define you! It is too easy to fall back on what you're good at and ignore what you could be learning, you can be good at everything, and game development is this sweet singularity of skills that will reward you for diversifying--if you're a good programmer who doesn't know art, take a couple weeks and just draw for fun, then animate what you drew, then make it interactive and playable--boom--game!! That's not to say it's easy haha, nay, game development is the hardest thing I've ever done, but it is damn rewarding to see myself grow, and see how passionate people are :)
For the undertale comparison. People need to realise that Undertale is a deceptively simple and short game. Most undertale fan projects make the mistake of BLOATING the whole thing, when you could finish Undertale in one sitting. I think it's a good example of "Keep things simple and straightforward"
Dang man, this was actually really helpful for me mentally. Im in the middle of a two man project and neither of us have ever done a game. Its going veryyy well, but it is only just starting to unfurl and I can definitely see scope creep becoming an issue just in all the things I have to draw and animate and design still. But this video helps put it into perspective, I AM a game developer since starting this project. I just need to lock in and focus on the minimum viable product. Thanks for this, I subbed and will check out your videos now.
This really could not have come at a better time for me. I've been brainstorming a bunch of ideas and whatnot for a game I want to make and planned a ton of shit out, but haven't even written a single piece of code for it (I got sidetracked trying to learn Vim to be faster haha) Feature creep is absolutely what I am experiencing... and I think the mini project idea is a fantastic one. The thing I am the most interested in is terrain / world generation, so right now that is going to be my goal. Good world gen and absolutely nothing else.
Im still a beginner, but i wanted to add a small tip which has been helpful in my writing and worldbuilding projects and which could carry over to game dev. Dont throw out your scope creep ideas. Write them all down in a file. Make sure its separate from your list of what you need to make the game. Then, once you've made that game, you can go back and decide what you want to add. I'd recommend picking only a few things if you're starting out and making sure they align with the original game's design. Think of it like a brainstorming document. You can always use those for additional content in the future or for future games if you dont have the time or knowledge to put them into practice in your current game. And whatever you do, dont delete them! Looking back on old ideas can be a great source of inspiration!
Thanks for the motivation! I never expected myself to get into game dev (I thought of it a few years back but never tried). and now since I'm actually trying, I feel a happiness I haven't felt since the time I first began digital art. I'm so excited to learn and gain more appreciation towards games.
What I love to do, is define the core experience I want the player to experience. If anything I am developing isn't in line with that, put it on the back burner, only consider it when you have created a core experience you can't imagine better. For example, you want the player to experience an adreline rush combat scenario. So you come up with some ideas, maybe settle for a 2d hack n slash, make some tough enemies, make different weapons and then you decide to make a shop you visit between levels... Oh wait, a shop isn't adrenaline rush combat, ok put in on the back burner, just implement a quick you get new gun reward and next level load immediately. You can still ad the shop in, if you feel it fits when you are in the polishing phase, but it helps keep development time down on aspects that doesn't align with the visioned experience. The core experience you define can be as abstract or specific as you want. "I want to feel like a cyborg ninja" and "I want to adventure in getting lost on a new forest trail as i did in my childhood", are both valid. This doesn't help with not over-sizing the project, it just helps focus efforts.
I feel like scope creep is actually affecting AAA games too, but in a different way. Many of them nowadays try to shove in as many game features as possible with no real focus on what it wants to be, affecting the quality of the product. And if it turns out good it doesn't usually turn out super memorable.
I couldn’t agree more! It’s sad because I feel like there are passionate developers in AAA but they end up getting screwed over by timelines and pressure from investors
Great video! One thing that helped me finish and ship a game was dividing the dev process strictly into two halves. The 'big ideas prototype' half and the 'absolutely no big ideas, let's get things finished' half. This really helped me make sure that I was happy with what the game was at that halfway point and that I knew how the pieces would all fit with no surprises.
The worth part was particularly interesting to hear. That's certainly another perspective on it. It seems like you'd be more likely to hear generic words of support, but sometimes it just doesn't hit as deep and while it might work, might even be better, I don't know and maybe it depends - it might just sometimes be better to navigate the illusionary walls in your own maze, rather than try to dispel them and see through the illusion. I think maybe it's something to be careful about, and not use as a go-to default, though.
4:06 Ah, I remember game jams, I thought I understood Javascript a lot better than I actually did, because I was taught processing JS without being told that I had a whole library at my disposal that would not normally be there, so I thought it would be easy to render graphics, it was not, so instead I made a text based adventure game that you would copy and paste into the JS console, it was pretty neat and could be played anywhere that has JS but nobody could figure out how to run the game. I also couldn't figure out how to make spacing in the programming, so it was all in one line of code.
5:29 Oh, interesting. I have a similar method I came up with but have been too busy to test, instead of turning each mechanic into a game I turn each game into a mechanic of a larger game, every time I get the idea to make a new game I can just take that new game and put it into the one I'm already working on, unfortunately I can't really do that for collaborative projects which is mainly what I have been working on right now.
Funny enough, the prototype section is exactly what I do. Was getting ready to say my plan in the comments, then you stole my words. My dream game has a gigantic minimum scope, and so there's a LOT of games I plan to make to learn those skills and gain that funding. Even then, there are things I'm already wanting to make that would amplify that scope significantly. My thing is to add a timeline. I can always make updates and dlc later, so I can add those things to the post-launch list.
Interesting 😂 I also have a Scope Creep, but for many years (10 to be exact) I had Zero ability to make a video game😅. So Scope Creep & concept art & design papers is all I have😅 and that's all I am Ever Gonna have!
The best idea is always to first stick with the core of the experience and then when you have a 1.0-worthy thing you can start scope creeping if you really want to. It holds its own potential issues like the launch content and the post-launch content not feeling the most cohesive or having to redo some work if you say, add a new skill that can break the existing design. However, dealing with and solving those problems is still better than overdesigning your first draft and manifesting no game at all. "Perfect is the biggest enemy of done" and stuff like that. If you don't want to finish the bossrush update, barely anyone can blame you because it was always going to be a bonus anyways.
I have a different type of scope creep I call it morphing scope creep. So you start out with do able A you plan it, make it, but then you hit a wall something you could power over and I have before but their is always maybe not you have no one able to provide you help. but the point is a slight modification to the design to make B instead means you could avoid the wall, but if you are going to do B you could do C for almost no more effort and C was removed from the A design because it was too much in the weeds. while doing C you notice a opportunity something that you would have come across if you did not take B to C but just tried to do C directly, so D it's going great but on ABCD everything looks like a patch work you have some weird trailing notes on paths you could take so it's time for a trim down and redesign, using the code as help in the design doc. F is a really well drafted design doc it reuses a lot of the code we have already made, so it's 90% done, and 95% how could their be a critical wall at 5% something in the UI of all things. wait how did I get to Z what happened to P for publish looking back it all started at F for failure, Failure to Zero, NO Wait their was L for loser no L for Learning and K for knowledge, their was S for skill too, and most importantly T for all the new tools that I have and can reuse one day with all those tools I will be able to make cyber punk 2077 not in 10 years but in 10 minutes but really in 10 years of making something else.
I definitely bit off more than i could chew, but my current plan is to compromise by making a single, polished level in this mechanics system. Even with all the madness i have in mind, my game formula can still be broken into distinct levels. If i can get that one level finished, i can treat that as my "first game release", something i can release to the world for free to give people a taste AND to give me some proper feedback. It also lets me ignore some of the more complex systems for now, those that relate to Saving, Loading, upgrade systems. I can just make a single, bite sized level For whay it's worth, I've got the player character physics pretty nearly solved, aside from getting the collision system to be neater and better organization. Then I need to get the enemies set up to navigate the slope&loop heavy terrain. I'll probably start my level design with simpler enemies that don't need to deal with slopes, like Helicopters and drones
Scope creep seems to have a pretty ambiguous definition. When I here the phrase I think of it as an outside force slowly adding extra tasks and responsibilities onto an originally agreed upon contract without adjusting compensation. I.E. A client requesting hundreds of tiny revisions.
My problem isn't scope creep but depth creep; how much mechanical depth to dig into a single game mechanic or system. Not adding more moving parts but how far down do I dig on the core aspect of the game until it's too much?
- I started adding unique zones - okay, that's totally reasonable - and bossfights, and upgrades - yeah, understandable you would need those - and hundreds of characters - wtf?
im someone who designs from a narrative ive already had to cut my dream game into 3rds and im currently considering further quartering the first game into 4 more games with the worst part being that even if i do that divide by four that wont fix the problem of my lack of art and programming skills, I know its possible to make but i don't have the skills to make it but i also cant just give up ive made well over 50 separate prototypes at this point over the course of 4 years that ive scrapped and am currently working on putting everything into a game design document before trying to start development again
Unfortunatly i've seen tons of videos like this: While these tips are all valid, they are still not sufficient to bring you as a game developer to the point where you realize your dream game. In my experience, i worked and studied for 12 years programming languages and engines (Python, Lua, UE4 and my current best choice: Godot4) and still i get noting in my hands. I can make all the small game I want, but everything is an enormous time spending process that gived me totally different things confronted to my unique motivation: A 4x fantasy game with hundreds of characters and spells. My soulution: I just wait. Technology is still too premature to try making big projects alone, and we are in the generative AI era. AI is a poison for the world, and still is the best thing that can happen for a solo developer like me that needs a better brain to not spend 1 month to create just the save/load system of a game. Thanks.
Hey! Thanks for the video. I'm currently at a point where I'm not happy with where I'm at with my game but this video encouraged me to keep going! Thank you for this antidote. :)
This is so true! Even now, after I've made a small game and a medium one, I am doing the same mistakes when I'm starting a new game project. Some people just don't want to learn from their own mistakes!
Also something to keep in mind. If you reeally want a feature but doesn't actually improve the game and will be equally good without it, you can always use that mechanic for a separate standalone game or even a sequel. Write the idea down then move on. Otherwise, from experience, you'll spend 10 years moving project to project!
Like software development and everything else it’s a craft that you hone over time. Then there’s the reality that making a game, even moderately simple, is extremely labor intensive.
Writing things down so you can forget about them and focus on what's at hand is a good idea, I think. It also lets you have a fresh look when you come back to those ideas.
It is probably not that hard if you know a bit of C++ Decompiled source code for GTA 3/Vice City is available for free online so you can draw inspiration from that
~6% Americans think they can beat grizzly bear, courtesy 2021 YouGov survey. But you too can bear a bear bare handed. You just need some beer to Brave(2012) it. The same goes with us gamedevs and them gamblers. Assuming the two are practically different.
~6% Americans think they can beat grizzly bear - a 2021 stats. But you too can bear a bear bare handed. You just need some beer to Brave (2012) it. The same goes with us gamedevs and them gamblers. Assuming the two are practically different.
I totally agree with part about creating small, self-contained projects to test and develop sub-systems. I wanted to add room layout map like in Binding of Isaac, so instead of doing it in current project, I've created a separate one which helped me quicky iterate and test the idea. After I was happy with result (a MVP, not a fully featured map) I've worked on putting it into the game. I wasn't the easiest as I did not take all of my components beforehand, but it was still quicker to fix issues that to start work on map right in the game. This also means I have a ready example of how to do a map for roguelike game, without necessity of untangling it from code of my game :D
4:57 I don't have a dream game, what does that even mean? Unless you're talking about that one game I came up with in a dream and don't particularly care about, it's not even very ambitious or anything and could probably be knocked out in an hour or so.
6:41 Now see this is where I excel, who needs good graphics when you can have doodles? And microphones make for the best audio! Of course, there's always a unique experience to be had when a game has the "Waka waka waka" track from Pac-Man. And can you really say that a 2*2 pixel image doesn't look accurate to the thing being drawn anyway?
can you share the program you're using in the video (at 0:23) for design planning and that pixelart program (at 0:30)? they look wonderful overall awesome video thank you for bringing these up its very valuable to get perspective from another experienced dev when you blind yourself with ambition
0:40 That's not my experience, my hands just aren't quick enough, I know exactly how to program something but it takes too long to port it from head to computer and so I lose any interest because it's no longer coming up with programming it's just copying and pasting an already made program from inside my memory to inside a computer which is not fun or challenging, it's just typing for the sake of typing with only that initial challenge of coming up with everything which takes up only a small fraction of the total development meaning I've only got a small time frame in which I've got any actual interest.
***Don't make games, make systems.*** If you have a big project down the line, the interim games concept is good, but easily a slippery slope into getting lost in a small game projects that never go anywhere. So long as you prioritize creating modular and reusable systems to move to your next game-- make small games, but always make systems. You'll learn as you do, even more than if you made lots of games. And you'll have a tool to use again for what you are really aiming for.
I doubt we will ever get rid of scope creep - because in the end all it means is that you are new to gamedev and have fun doing it - so don't feel bad for having scope creep in many ways it's actually a good sign 🤔
Great example of breaking down a big game into smaller games, look at the Mario franchise. If the idea in your head is Odyssey, look at how much that game borrowed mechanics from its predecessors, like Sunshine and 64. Not to mention, although Odyssey is a great game in the series, people remember the rest of the games in their own right and with their own merit.
"weather you have completed 20 different projects, or you're just starting out" ;-; What if I've spent half my lifetime making things and never once being able to focus long enough on one of them for it to be even at the level of a prototype
Im working on my first game, and my dumbass decided to make it an open world cops and robbers live service game, sofar im working on polishing the base terrain, its been 4 months and ive gotten 2 areas' base terrain complete, im commited to finishing this project, hope it goes well.
Just remember that open world doesn't mean gigantic world. Maybe make 5 areas and move between them in interesting ways? It will limit scope while still retaining an open feel.
@@HonsHon my whole idea is 5 separate districts with similar activities and each district will favor a certain faction like for instance a port district with activities favoring criminals or the Central district favoring police
Actually it was kinda just a random prototype I was working on for a bit. I never ended doing anything with it but maybe I will someday! Some of the games I show are from game jams but most are just random prototypes
This is a great perspective! Though I am indeed starting from mostly zero experience and trying to make a full-scale game, I'd fortunately heard enough warnings about being overly ambitious and getting burnt out that the scope has stayed somewhat reasonable (in fact, I've already scrapped some ideas I had once I realized they were simply not necessary for a first project). I definitely resonate with playing to one's strengths - after discovering that programming fluid platforming mechanics comes somewhat naturally, I decided to make a game that emphasizes speed and movement while completely omitting combat. And I'm working the story to fit around the concept and constraints that I've established. This is some quality content - keep up the good work!
1:01 No? What's hard about it? The only hard thing is when you're making purely technical projects which can retain my interest because I'm constantly having to solve new problems, learning to make 3d engines has been an interesting challenge, it took me several years to plot out how you would correctly distort a texture to account for the depth of each of the three points on a 3d triangle, though I think I've finally cracked it with a series of line intersections and proxy triangles that in theory should be effectively the same to work with as the real triangle. But why would the games be hard? They're just boring and tedious, making them multiplayer has introduced a unique challenge though.
The problem is some people don't know their worth -as a game dev-... and that goes in both directions. Remember kids _everyone_ is special, but _being_ special is not.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
00:39 "moved on to something else" *cuts to Skyrim* "this dude made Skyrim"
*L0L*
If it were, it would be a Todd wanting to eat a -swan- dragon meat.
well he needed to start with something small, maybe one day skyrim will be a bigger game
Lol that's the thought I had too in that scene!
I love the concept of dividing your game into smaller games, not only you're developing that big game you always dreamed of, you are doing it in a way that doesn't become overwhelming because of the small focus.
I am doing an RPG, but really, right now i am developing a dress-up game for character creator, i don't have to think of a combat system, a map, a progression, etc.
At the micro level, this is not scope creep. By the macro, dress up game just for character creation is 100% a scope creep. Dream game in >10 years.
@@ultimaxkom8728 Is focusing on character aesthetics for a "Roleplaying game" scope creep? Wouldn't it be a fitting mechanic? You know, for literal roleplay?
Also it's just a normal character creator, but clothes and armor is done together as part of a standalone game.
@@NoizzedExactly. Character customization is very common in RPGs, especially in the West. And even if it doesn’t work well in the dream RPG project, it can be used for other projects.
The reason why many indies are never finished is because the developer will create assets, music, polish, etc. instead of focusing on the core game design, so once they get around to mechanics, programming, and game design, they either end up not knowing what to do next or with a game that is not fun to play even if it looks nice. The solution is putting your focus on the actual gameplay, mechanics, and game design so that you know if the game is actually fun and a good idea before polishing the game. Polish can make a fun/good game better, but it can't make an unfun/bad game good.
This is a topic very dear to my heart as I've struggled with projects of various natures for decades.
One thing I often see missing in such advice is "find out what gets you started and what keeps you going".
I used to be very freeform and jumped right into making rather than planning. I ended with multiple unfinished projects and lots of assets. I kept jumping from project to project, following the shinies.
Then I read an article about planning first, outlining, have the start and end and fill in the middle, as well as self imposed deadlines. Tried applying that for years and felt like even more of a failure because I couldn't keep to it. Deadlines and outlining just made realize the true scope of my projects and immediately killed my motivation. Sadly, reducing scope turned projects into something I just had no passion for.
Result: still no finished project, but worse: no assets! Sure, I avoided throwing myself into unfinishable projects, but I also robbed myself of motivation to create anything else! My prior failed unplanned projects at least yielded art, character concepts, story drafts etc... I was actually *training* and having fun doing so. The grandiose ideas I had may never congeal into a whole game, but they were *motivating* and giving me context for all the smaller stuff I was doing.
Perhaps I'll never make a game of a scope I consider worthy, but I've started wondering how much that matters. Maybe creating assets for an imaginary crazy project is just where I find my fun?
So, my advice, I guess, is to find what works for you, and to not let the fun parts be eclipsed by something else!
Love hearing your perspective, thank you for sharing!
i published my very first game jam literally 9 hours ago, i have to say that it's so gratifying to actually have a game, even a small, barebones prototype, out there for people to play rate and enjoy!
Congrats! Could you link to it? I'd love to check it out!
+1
Where can we find it?
I’m starting out gam dev as well. Wish me luck
@@taggosaurus Good luck!
When i used to make games, i had a simple solution to avoid it and have finished games:
0 - have a design document with the outline of the story
1 - start working on the intro and the ending first
2 - having them done, roughly fill in the middle with the content that will lead one point of the story to the other
3 - lastly, polish it up and add extra content, like side quests
If in the middle, i decided to have a bigger scope and implement something that would burn me out on the game, it would be basically finished anyway.
This is actually really clever trick for making RPGs!
When I developed a twin-stick shooter I found it more helpful to just start with the basic mechanics without worrying about where I was going. I made a player controller. I made an enemy AI that literally just moved towards you and insta-killed you on contact. Did I have a cool idea for a dodge move? I would add it right then and there. By not worrying about polish or anything else that was not directly related to my current gameplay, I was able to create a very quick and enjoyable prototype.
If I remember correctly, Splatoon also just started off as an internal game jam where you controlled these moving default cubes that shot grey goop. A first prototype doesn't have to have any assets or story planned out. Find the fun first, worry about adding content second.
Useless comment written solely to remind myself of this list.
@@il-ma.le. rather then trying to come back to it perhaps you should make a text document of things you want to remind your self of. that way if you are feeling lost you can come back to your text document for inspiration and management of your self. you could organize them by the effect they have on you and program your self choosing they way you will feel, not reacting to reality. I am a cult leader and I could help you out with this if you really want to achieve "the correct path".
@@il-ma.le. I thought you were trashing the comment for a second 😬😬😬
@@YellowSabre Wouldn't be wrong
Screw this guy.
I know what I'm capable of.
I'm super passionate.
And, I'm not gonna let anybody stop me from making my game.
if this is a joke its amazingly convincing
@@poopass1596 ...it's paraphrased from the video
Either this will be the next 100% scientific dragon mmo or a top selling indie game. No middle ground
@@poopass1596 Thank you, Captain Straight-to-the-comment-section.
@@yarpen26 I like how I commented on this video thinking "eh, this video will have 200 views max, no one will read it", only to be flooded by likes from it's growing audience.
Also, ha, you got em.
I find that I usually start with a big scope that creeps backward as I realize which parts are not feasible or beyond either my skill or what one person can do on their own -- or in some cases which idea wouldn't really add much to the final game.
Indie studio here!
What a nice and necessary video. Indeed, in looking at our peers, we'd say one of the biggest issues when starting in gamedev is aiming for too big of a scope. Keep it simple and only go for more complex projects once you have some experience.
We wanted to share that this philosophy is so important, that we even have a part in our processes we appreciate deeply, that we call "jettisoning". Usually, once we've spent months working on a project, we always force ourselves to be very open to the practice of just removing entire features and segments of our initial vision. We ask ourselves if stuff that we've deemed "NECESSARY" isn't that important to begin with. Usually you envision the project at first and without realizing, you end up holding all the entirety of such vision as sacred and inamovible. Truth is your project doesn't exist yet, therefore people isn't expecting nothing specific. Maybe this feature can be removed; maybe the game will be amazing with 5 levels instead of the 10 you firstly imagined.
Of course bottom line is whatever you release gotta feel complete. But sometimes we started up envisioning something that was 130% of what would feel complete, and removing that extra 30% can make your life easier, or even be what allows you to actually finish the project.
Don't be afraid of removing things, even if maybe you fell in love with them and ended up seeing them as necessary. Revisit them with critical eye and ask yourself if this or that could be removed to make the production more feasible.
And hey, if that 130% first vision is easily achievable... go for it! But sometimes that difference between your first vision and a revised scope with some content/featured removed can save you from financial struggle, mental health hurdles, or even failing to ever finishing the project.
It's that legendary piece of wisdom for project management: "Perfect is the enemy of good".
@@BeautifulGlitch very inspiring, thanks for sharing :)
Something that's really working for me is that I make all my projects sub modules of a master project. Anytime I work on a feature or game it ends up being useful in all my other projects.
just start with infinite scope, then it can't creep
*Rephrased:* Define no scope so you can't scope creep. What, fishing is "scope creep"? How can that be when there's no defined "scope" to "creep"?
every kickstarter mmo ever
You underestimate my power!
Finally, someone speaking my language!
I'm gonna make the next big thing that replaces Pokemon and Minecraft. I have never made a game before. I'm still 100% confident it will happen. My secret: being bipolar and having a hypomanic episode
step 1: farm alternate personalities
step 2: make them work for you
step 3: avoid meds and feds
step 4: double wheel tap glowies
@@ultimaxkom8728 shut up bot
What's your name on itchio?)
I could not relate more. I've probably thought of over 10 games and each time I get good ideas I either get another idea for something else or procrastinate lol. This is going to be a big help, Thanks!
Cool video, I was apprehensive at first when I started watching, because I thought it would just be the same type of advice I've heard before. I'm in exams rn, but soon the summer will embrace me, and I'll have plenty of time to make a game!
My first game attempt was... a story-driven Metroidvania. This video hits so close, it's almost spooky.
I do TTRPGs and I think this applies to them as well. Sometimes I can get so caught up in details that have nothing to do with the area of the world I'm writing for that it basically paralyzes me for weeks and sometimes months on end.
I love how RUclips recommends this video right as I finished feeling overwhelmed by my project I decided to rewrite it to increase the complexity. I am actually currently going through the endless hole of scope creep.
your profile pic is absolutely awesome i love the shading its so good! the color work so well together
great video. Definitely true, I wish someone had told me this when I started trying to make games! Making small games is really fun, and making them instead of your big games doesn't mean you do not have to be passionate about those smaller projects.
I know the feeling. Am working on my first game, and I’ve already started with what can be considered an over ambitious concept. The current goal is to finish the gameplay loop (aka vertical slice) but I get stuck in making optimizations, because I’m not an expert programmer and when I learn a better way of doing things, I go back to fix some of my old code.
Thanks so much for the tips. These free videos available today for devs are proceless
As a game dev, while you should play to your strengths, you should NOT let them define you! It is too easy to fall back on what you're good at and ignore what you could be learning, you can be good at everything, and game development is this sweet singularity of skills that will reward you for diversifying--if you're a good programmer who doesn't know art, take a couple weeks and just draw for fun, then animate what you drew, then make it interactive and playable--boom--game!! That's not to say it's easy haha, nay, game development is the hardest thing I've ever done, but it is damn rewarding to see myself grow, and see how passionate people are :)
I thought of the solution presented at 4:54 for my game and it's such a good feeling to see someone else "acknowledge" it
3:00 I see how it is.... Afraid to invoke the name of Homestuck.
For the undertale comparison.
People need to realise that Undertale is a deceptively simple and short game. Most undertale fan projects make the mistake of BLOATING the whole thing, when you could finish Undertale in one sitting.
I think it's a good example of "Keep things simple and straightforward"
yeah alot of fan projects and mods are trying to be way more ambitious than the base game itself, which is both good and bad
Dang man, this was actually really helpful for me mentally. Im in the middle of a two man project and neither of us have ever done a game. Its going veryyy well, but it is only just starting to unfurl and I can definitely see scope creep becoming an issue just in all the things I have to draw and animate and design still. But this video helps put it into perspective, I AM a game developer since starting this project. I just need to lock in and focus on the minimum viable product. Thanks for this, I subbed and will check out your videos now.
@@NZMPlays so glad it helped! We’re all on this journey together, best of luck to you !
This really could not have come at a better time for me. I've been brainstorming a bunch of ideas and whatnot for a game I want to make and planned a ton of shit out, but haven't even written a single piece of code for it (I got sidetracked trying to learn Vim to be faster haha)
Feature creep is absolutely what I am experiencing... and I think the mini project idea is a fantastic one. The thing I am the most interested in is terrain / world generation, so right now that is going to be my goal. Good world gen and absolutely nothing else.
Great, simple, relatable video, and the topic is so important! Not much good advice you can find on it. Thank you!
Im still a beginner, but i wanted to add a small tip which has been helpful in my writing and worldbuilding projects and which could carry over to game dev.
Dont throw out your scope creep ideas. Write them all down in a file. Make sure its separate from your list of what you need to make the game. Then, once you've made that game, you can go back and decide what you want to add. I'd recommend picking only a few things if you're starting out and making sure they align with the original game's design. Think of it like a brainstorming document. You can always use those for additional content in the future or for future games if you dont have the time or knowledge to put them into practice in your current game. And whatever you do, dont delete them!
Looking back on old ideas can be a great source of inspiration!
Thanks for the motivation! I never expected myself to get into game dev (I thought of it a few years back but never tried).
and now since I'm actually trying, I feel a happiness I haven't felt since the time I first began digital art.
I'm so excited to learn and gain more appreciation towards games.
Thanks for watching! Wishing you a fulfilling game dev journey 🧡
Be wary of tutorial hell and analysis paralysis. Just focus on making super simple games first so your passion fire doesn't get snubbed midway.
@@ultimaxkom8728 I'm working on simple games on scratch and playing around with mechanics since I enjoy a challenge so thanks for the advice!
What I love to do, is define the core experience I want the player to experience. If anything I am developing isn't in line with that, put it on the back burner, only consider it when you have created a core experience you can't imagine better.
For example, you want the player to experience an adreline rush combat scenario. So you come up with some ideas, maybe settle for a 2d hack n slash, make some tough enemies, make different weapons and then you decide to make a shop you visit between levels... Oh wait, a shop isn't adrenaline rush combat, ok put in on the back burner, just implement a quick you get new gun reward and next level load immediately.
You can still ad the shop in, if you feel it fits when you are in the polishing phase, but it helps keep development time down on aspects that doesn't align with the visioned experience.
The core experience you define can be as abstract or specific as you want. "I want to feel like a cyborg ninja" and "I want to adventure in getting lost on a new forest trail as i did in my childhood", are both valid.
This doesn't help with not over-sizing the project, it just helps focus efforts.
Exactly what I needed! Thanks!
in my journey in game development, I realize I love creating assets and art more than anything else in a project
I feel like scope creep is actually affecting AAA games too, but in a different way. Many of them nowadays try to shove in as many game features as possible with no real focus on what it wants to be, affecting the quality of the product. And if it turns out good it doesn't usually turn out super memorable.
I couldn’t agree more! It’s sad because I feel like there are passionate developers in AAA but they end up getting screwed over by timelines and pressure from investors
Hardly a new thing, but whatever, if you feel so
safe AAA -> ++investment -> bigger scope -> higher break even -> more monetization -> harsher feedback -> greater perceived risk -> "safer" AAA
@@ultimaxkom8728 This is why you invest in secure industries, like engineering parts and machinery, appliances and similar.
@@TheSultan1470 Did I say it was new? You're acting like this video said scope creep is new evethough it isn't.
Great video!
One thing that helped me finish and ship a game was dividing the dev process strictly into two halves. The 'big ideas prototype' half and the 'absolutely no big ideas, let's get things finished' half.
This really helped me make sure that I was happy with what the game was at that halfway point and that I knew how the pieces would all fit with no surprises.
The worth part was particularly interesting to hear. That's certainly another perspective on it. It seems like you'd be more likely to hear generic words of support, but sometimes it just doesn't hit as deep and while it might work, might even be better, I don't know and maybe it depends - it might just sometimes be better to navigate the illusionary walls in your own maze, rather than try to dispel them and see through the illusion. I think maybe it's something to be careful about, and not use as a go-to default, though.
Scope creep is very real. It has me taken 10 years to make my first full game, but at least I have learned a lot from it
4:06 Ah, I remember game jams, I thought I understood Javascript a lot better than I actually did, because I was taught processing JS without being told that I had a whole library at my disposal that would not normally be there, so I thought it would be easy to render graphics, it was not, so instead I made a text based adventure game that you would copy and paste into the JS console, it was pretty neat and could be played anywhere that has JS but nobody could figure out how to run the game. I also couldn't figure out how to make spacing in the programming, so it was all in one line of code.
great video! i wish i knew what scope creep was many years ago because its exactly what happened to me
Best advice I got on this topic from internet!
5:29 Oh, interesting. I have a similar method I came up with but have been too busy to test, instead of turning each mechanic into a game I turn each game into a mechanic of a larger game, every time I get the idea to make a new game I can just take that new game and put it into the one I'm already working on, unfortunately I can't really do that for collaborative projects which is mainly what I have been working on right now.
This is just what a brotha needed to hear. Thank you sir!
“That’s where GAME JAMS come in. I won’t spend too much time on this…” is my new favorite segue. 4:03
Funny enough, the prototype section is exactly what I do. Was getting ready to say my plan in the comments, then you stole my words.
My dream game has a gigantic minimum scope, and so there's a LOT of games I plan to make to learn those skills and gain that funding. Even then, there are things I'm already wanting to make that would amplify that scope significantly. My thing is to add a timeline. I can always make updates and dlc later, so I can add those things to the post-launch list.
I'm working on a clicker game and I can't even make text change when I click something
Interesting 😂 I also have a Scope Creep, but for many years (10 to be exact) I had Zero ability to make a video game😅. So Scope Creep & concept art & design papers is all I have😅 and that's all I am Ever Gonna have!
The best idea is always to first stick with the core of the experience and then when you have a 1.0-worthy thing you can start scope creeping if you really want to. It holds its own potential issues like the launch content and the post-launch content not feeling the most cohesive or having to redo some work if you say, add a new skill that can break the existing design. However, dealing with and solving those problems is still better than overdesigning your first draft and manifesting no game at all.
"Perfect is the biggest enemy of done" and stuff like that. If you don't want to finish the bossrush update, barely anyone can blame you because it was always going to be a bonus anyways.
00:24 What is the program you are using to do your game design documents? It looks really good.
4:26 Planning and developing are a simultaneous process and planning happens faster.
4:18 I already have a deadline set for me; I'm not going to live forever.
I have a different type of scope creep I call it morphing scope creep. So you start out with do able A you plan it, make it, but then you hit a wall something you could power over and I have before but their is always maybe not you have no one able to provide you help. but the point is a slight modification to the design to make B instead means you could avoid the wall, but if you are going to do B you could do C for almost no more effort and C was removed from the A design because it was too much in the weeds. while doing C you notice a opportunity something that you would have come across if you did not take B to C but just tried to do C directly, so D it's going great but on ABCD everything looks like a patch work you have some weird trailing notes on paths you could take so it's time for a trim down and redesign, using the code as help in the design doc. F is a really well drafted design doc it reuses a lot of the code we have already made, so it's 90% done, and 95% how could their be a critical wall at 5% something in the UI of all things. wait how did I get to Z what happened to P for publish looking back it all started at F for failure, Failure to Zero, NO Wait their was L for loser no L for Learning and K for knowledge, their was S for skill too, and most importantly T for all the new tools that I have and can reuse one day with all those tools I will be able to make cyber punk 2077 not in 10 years but in 10 minutes but really in 10 years of making something else.
I definitely bit off more than i could chew, but my current plan is to compromise by making a single, polished level in this mechanics system. Even with all the madness i have in mind, my game formula can still be broken into distinct levels.
If i can get that one level finished, i can treat that as my "first game release", something i can release to the world for free to give people a taste AND to give me some proper feedback. It also lets me ignore some of the more complex systems for now, those that relate to Saving, Loading, upgrade systems. I can just make a single, bite sized level
For whay it's worth, I've got the player character physics pretty nearly solved, aside from getting the collision system to be neater and better organization. Then I need to get the enemies set up to navigate the slope&loop heavy terrain. I'll probably start my level design with simpler enemies that don't need to deal with slopes, like Helicopters and drones
And if you ever need an example of Scope Creep in action: Star Citizen.
Scope creep seems to have a pretty ambiguous definition. When I here the phrase I think of it as an outside force slowly adding extra tasks and responsibilities onto an originally agreed upon contract without adjusting compensation.
I.E. A client requesting hundreds of tiny revisions.
My problem isn't scope creep but depth creep; how much mechanical depth to dig into a single game mechanic or system. Not adding more moving parts but how far down do I dig on the core aspect of the game until it's too much?
- I started adding unique zones
- okay, that's totally reasonable
- and bossfights, and upgrades
- yeah, understandable you would need those
- and hundreds of characters
- wtf?
5:53 Come to think of it, I already do this to an extent.
im someone who designs from a narrative ive already had to cut my dream game into 3rds and im currently considering further quartering the first game into 4 more games with the worst part being that even if i do that divide by four that wont fix the problem of my lack of art and programming skills, I know its possible to make but i don't have the skills to make it but i also cant just give up ive made well over 50 separate prototypes at this point over the course of 4 years that ive scrapped and am currently working on putting everything into a game design document before trying to start development again
Unfortunatly i've seen tons of videos like this: While these tips are all valid, they are still not sufficient to bring you as a game developer to the point where you realize your dream game. In my experience, i worked and studied for 12 years programming languages and engines (Python, Lua, UE4 and my current best choice: Godot4) and still i get noting in my hands. I can make all the small game I want, but everything is an enormous time spending process that gived me totally different things confronted to my unique motivation: A 4x fantasy game with hundreds of characters and spells. My soulution: I just wait. Technology is still too premature to try making big projects alone, and we are in the generative AI era. AI is a poison for the world, and still is the best thing that can happen for a solo developer like me that needs a better brain to not spend 1 month to create just the save/load system of a game. Thanks.
Hey! Thanks for the video. I'm currently at a point where I'm not happy with where I'm at with my game but this video encouraged me to keep going! Thank you for this antidote. :)
This is so true!
Even now, after I've made a small game and a medium one, I am doing the same mistakes when I'm starting a new game project.
Some people just don't want to learn from their own mistakes!
Is that trello on 8:35 ?? how did you make the folders stack up vetically? :o
Also something to keep in mind. If you reeally want a feature but doesn't actually improve the game and will be equally good without it, you can always use that mechanic for a separate standalone game or even a sequel. Write the idea down then move on.
Otherwise, from experience, you'll spend 10 years moving project to project!
Like software development and everything else it’s a craft that you hone over time. Then there’s the reality that making a game, even moderately simple, is extremely labor intensive.
Hey, man. I just clicked on the video and the program you were using piqued my interest. What was the program you were using around 0:29?
It's milanote
Writing things down so you can forget about them and focus on what's at hand is a good idea, I think.
It also lets you have a fresh look when you come back to those ideas.
So dope APOX FOX What huge value & guidance to all of us tryin to improve our game 🙏💖👊
I AM a game developer. Thank you!
Bro what app did you use to make that combat outline concept map @00:26?
It's milanote
3:04 homestuck absolutely destroyed humanity for a hot minute i think they know that one
"Toby Fox soundtracked webcomics you've probably never heard of." The world is changing...
Hi, what program (digital board) did you use to outline your game?
It’s called Milanote, there’s a free trial version and i definitely recommend giving it a try
@apoxfox it looks great. Thanks for replying
what software are you using to put down your game design ideas
Milanote
You arent a real game dev unless you tell yourself that you can create the next GTA in a few months
Oh, I can. The next GTA... _one._
Actually, scrap that. No way I'm gonna do even that.
Step aside, sane devs! For I am here! To make GTA... Chinatown! *[This comment has been flagged with Dubious Claim]*
It is probably not that hard if you know a bit of C++
Decompiled source code for GTA 3/Vice City is available for free online so you can draw inspiration from that
~6% Americans think they can beat grizzly bear, courtesy 2021 YouGov survey. But you too can bear a bear bare handed. You just need some beer to Brave(2012) it. The same goes with us gamedevs and them gamblers. Assuming the two are practically different.
~6% Americans think they can beat grizzly bear - a 2021 stats. But you too can bear a bear bare handed. You just need some beer to Brave (2012) it. The same goes with us gamedevs and them gamblers. Assuming the two are practically different.
I totally agree with part about creating small, self-contained projects to test and develop sub-systems. I wanted to add room layout map like in Binding of Isaac, so instead of doing it in current project, I've created a separate one which helped me quicky iterate and test the idea.
After I was happy with result (a MVP, not a fully featured map) I've worked on putting it into the game. I wasn't the easiest as I did not take all of my components beforehand, but it was still quicker to fix issues that to start work on map right in the game.
This also means I have a ready example of how to do a map for roguelike game, without necessity of untangling it from code of my game :D
4:57 I don't have a dream game, what does that even mean? Unless you're talking about that one game I came up with in a dream and don't particularly care about, it's not even very ambitious or anything and could probably be knocked out in an hour or so.
6:41 Now see this is where I excel, who needs good graphics when you can have doodles? And microphones make for the best audio! Of course, there's always a unique experience to be had when a game has the "Waka waka waka" track from Pac-Man. And can you really say that a 2*2 pixel image doesn't look accurate to the thing being drawn anyway?
can you share the program you're using in the video (at 0:23) for design planning and that pixelart program (at 0:30)? they look wonderful
overall awesome video thank you for bringing these up its very valuable to get perspective from another experienced dev when you blind yourself with ambition
It’s called Milanote!
I think the pixelart program is aesprite
0:40 That's not my experience, my hands just aren't quick enough, I know exactly how to program something but it takes too long to port it from head to computer and so I lose any interest because it's no longer coming up with programming it's just copying and pasting an already made program from inside my memory to inside a computer which is not fun or challenging, it's just typing for the sake of typing with only that initial challenge of coming up with everything which takes up only a small fraction of the total development meaning I've only got a small time frame in which I've got any actual interest.
***Don't make games, make systems.***
If you have a big project down the line, the interim games concept is good, but easily a slippery slope into getting lost in a small game projects that never go anywhere. So long as you prioritize creating modular and reusable systems to move to your next game-- make small games, but always make systems. You'll learn as you do, even more than if you made lots of games. And you'll have a tool to use again for what you are really aiming for.
This is big true and I am absolutely biased because this is one of my principle of chasing the dream.
10:20 why are you keeping your eggs in a chest in the coop
I promise I'm paying attention
@@helloofthebeach lol I think I was saving them for a saloon quest where I needed a lot, I can’t really remember though.
I doubt we will ever get rid of scope creep - because in the end all it means is that you are new to gamedev and have fun doing it - so don't feel bad for having scope creep in many ways it's actually a good sign 🤔
Great example of breaking down a big game into smaller games, look at the Mario franchise.
If the idea in your head is Odyssey, look at how much that game borrowed mechanics from its predecessors, like Sunshine and 64. Not to mention, although Odyssey is a great game in the series, people remember the rest of the games in their own right and with their own merit.
what is the program that when he used making his document?
can conform this is, good advice
According to the women I meet, Creep is my middle name, so I suppose Scope might well be my first.
"weather you have completed 20 different projects, or you're just starting out" ;-;
What if I've spent half my lifetime making things and never once being able to focus long enough on one of them for it to be even at the level of a prototype
Dang the 2nd one was an idea i had too.
Im working on my first game, and my dumbass decided to make it an open world cops and robbers live service game, sofar im working on polishing the base terrain, its been 4 months and ive gotten 2 areas' base terrain complete, im commited to finishing this project, hope it goes well.
Nice! Gonna earn massive bank from that.
Just remember that open world doesn't mean gigantic world. Maybe make 5 areas and move between them in interesting ways?
It will limit scope while still retaining an open feel.
@@HonsHon (I'm pretty sure they are joking)
@@HonsHon my whole idea is 5 separate districts with similar activities and each district will favor a certain faction like for instance a port district with activities favoring criminals or the Central district favoring police
whats the software at 8:38??
Whats the name of the game at 5:07?
The game at 6:32, have you ever released that? I feel like I have played it a few years ago in a jam I participated in.
Actually it was kinda just a random prototype I was working on for a bit. I never ended doing anything with it but maybe I will someday! Some of the games I show are from game jams but most are just random prototypes
This is a great perspective! Though I am indeed starting from mostly zero experience and trying to make a full-scale game, I'd fortunately heard enough warnings about being overly ambitious and getting burnt out that the scope has stayed somewhat reasonable (in fact, I've already scrapped some ideas I had once I realized they were simply not necessary for a first project). I definitely resonate with playing to one's strengths - after discovering that programming fluid platforming mechanics comes somewhat naturally, I decided to make a game that emphasizes speed and movement while completely omitting combat. And I'm working the story to fit around the concept and constraints that I've established.
This is some quality content - keep up the good work!
Hey! Would you be interested in doing a developer interview? I have done interviews with the dev of Rooftops and alleys!
Sounds fun! My discord is in the description, you can dm me from there 😄
What is the website you’re using for game planning flowcharts?
"Wecomics you've probably never heard of" made me laugh in classic MSPA fan.
5:40 Then you'll have to have a copy right for each and every smaller game. That's 50 times more copy rights.
1:01 No? What's hard about it? The only hard thing is when you're making purely technical projects which can retain my interest because I'm constantly having to solve new problems, learning to make 3d engines has been an interesting challenge, it took me several years to plot out how you would correctly distort a texture to account for the depth of each of the three points on a 3d triangle, though I think I've finally cracked it with a series of line intersections and proxy triangles that in theory should be effectively the same to work with as the real triangle. But why would the games be hard? They're just boring and tedious, making them multiplayer has introduced a unique challenge though.
The problem is some people don't know their worth -as a game dev-... and that goes in both directions. Remember kids _everyone_ is special, but _being_ special is not.
was that Milanote i saw!!! :D :D :D