This man is a genius. When he dissected the way how the internet generation thinks, it nearly watered my eyes. An old man that can see the world though the kid's eyes. I bow down to you, sir.
I just listened to the full-length (1hr14) audio via the link in the information provided by the uploader. It's well worth a listen if you have the time. Rifkin says a lot more and there is a good Q&A. Interesting comments regarding influencing politicians to take notice of the need to make the changes that Rifkin and others are campaigning for.
i really liked it from 18:20 onwards, how the current generation of kids thinks differently: >"the young kids they don't think right/left... don't think capitalism/socialism, liberal/conservative. When they judge institutional behaviour - the internet generation - they ask is this institution centralised, patriarchal, top down, closed and proprietary...or is this institutional behaviour distributed, collaborative, open, transparent and lateral. That's all the spectrum we need to get it right"
I had been thinking about the way we could share energy produced individually within the closer community before it goes further afield. But of course we have to recreate the network that facilitates this.
@QuitePossiblyANinja Who says? The logic there is that people will only start to think about alternatives when there is no choice. We Must continue to educate people of alternatives because so many of us just simply do not know. Get this Viral!
@Dagvalda I still maintain you are talking about the political movement of communism not the social and economical ideology it was based on. I'm just particularly referring to the work of Karl Marx. I just think given certain technological advances like for instance cars and internet could have had it come to fruition differently. Main thing is, we need to work on transparency before we bring in a new way of looking at economics and politics.
Rifkin, in a way, reminds me of Brzezinski in the 1960's, when Between Two Ages was first published. Both are very influential within their political spheres - Brzezinski in the US, Rifkin in the EU. Btw, I bet Rifkin has some interesting conversations with his friends in Bethesda, Maryland.
Laterally: side to side. "A redesigned form of communism"? Hmm...I can see your point, but no, it is not the same. Distributed energy regimes, administered and operated laterally, do not require the kind of shared decision-making demanded in communism (from 'commune': close-knit community of people who share everything or almost everything). The five-pillar infrastructure would be managed as a market. In a commune, however, everyone must meet, discuss, and collaborate even in consumption.
I come to your question a year late, but perhaps I can offer you an answer. The money is already there for this all-or-nothing eco-logical redevelopment (not a 'green dream' as you put it), and it requires reinvesting intelligently, not short-sightedly as is the case nowadays. Sales, property and income taxes, and business profits can be judiciously reinvested into transforming neighborhoods, towns and cities into the five-pillar technological nodes required for this to work. All hands on deck.
@kekeke01 I think Rifkin is using a loose analogy of the Internet in order to explain the ideas. No doubt he could make a stronger case, given more time to present the details. I noticed he checked his watch a few times so he was obviously pushed for time. Also, we don't know the audience, perhaps not very tech-aware, so he had to keep it simple.
Lateral. Laterally. I KNEW he was selling SOMETHING other than an idea - The Third Industrial Revolution: How Lateral Power Is Transforming Energy, the Economy, and the World. And the kids he's talking about? They know what the best gun to use in MW3 or what the Kardashians are up to. Yet they can't/won't rake a leaf or shovel snow and expect everything for free. I'll have what he's having, please. Make mine a double!
@masteriux I believe we will have a mass die-off as well. All of these intellectual talks are pointing towards that conclusion, but the speakers dance around the highly uncomfortable topic every time.
Genius. Now he just needs to talk to everyone in the world. Dang it. Also, I'd love to hear how that "energy internet" thing actually works. It sounds like science fiction.
"The young kids they don't think Right/Left. They don't think Capitalism/Socialism, Liberal/Conservative. When they judge institutional behaviour (the internet generation) they ask, "is this institution centralized, patriarchal, top-down, closed and proprietary? Or is this institutional behaviour distributed, collaborative, open, transparent and lateral? That's all the spectrum we need to get it right."
all the "things" he talks about that'll magick the new order into play are products of high energy industry - science, computers, mobile phones, communication towers, grids etc: the new world of distributed energy will have a big job to deliver energy concentrations for manufacturing, or extraction.
@MrJamesilongiii I'm not sure. But if we as a species care more about a concept of value as something transmissible between entities rather than the resources that are necessitated to sustain us, I'm sure we'll be going down a worser path.
@ipwnorcs people hate me for saying this, but communism came at a wrong time. Pretty much every societal structure was susceptible to corruption, we are just moving out of one as we realize the potential of constant transparency. Personally I love seeing groups taking the initiative and consume their market. Now I am ready to see politics do the same.
With covid, whats after covid 19? I always ask that after seeing the bushfires in australia and California that was sad, then hearing zombie apocalypse in movies and all sorts of things? Like alien the movie? Or world war 3 movies watched like that based on future events? Really mind boggling? I turn my tv off sometimes and radio and disconnect sometimes is the best way listen to beachs on waves and sands calms the soul something natural for once i should do instead i hearing the digital slave clip I've seen? Im staying next post in 4-6 or 8 weeks need a rest to recoup? Means relax?
Sounds like a great step in the right direction, however, I think the corporations will continue to suck every cent out of the working poor. We don;t get a lot for our taxes these days. Around 1920 there were advocates in Cda to nationalize electricity and I think it should be!
@jdebruynviolin A market is a reflection of the people and society in which it exists. So, whether or not it's patient has to do with a particular people and society. The same would be true of non-market societies.
www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-way-to-make-steel-uses-electricity/ Cleaner AND less expensive to use electricity. Another option is Germany's Third Industrial Revolution model. Excess renewable energy is used to hydrolyze water, producing pure oxygen (a marketable product) and hydrogen. Hydrogen is stored in the nation's natural gas grid and can be burned directly to melt iron, or converted back into electricity in fuel cells, or in standard turbine generators. Renewables are much more flexible than simply burning oil or coal.
Europe has committed industrial suicide,with so called green energies that kill energy intensive industries first...Thanks for the jobs,the resourcing of manufacturing from high cost electricity nations in Europe/ASIA ...Has caused a tidal shift of those jobs to the lower cost US....
Europe has put the cart before the horse with actually having the engineering to create what is desired. True pure luck the engineering is going to create a decentralized energy structure that uses solar, wind, wave, hydro and geothermal. Iceland for example has created the engineering to take advantage of its geothermal energy. It now has something 97% of its electricity created by geo-energy. If you look at Luxembourg Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and Norway they have all made massive inroads with renewable's and it has not cost them jobs. Those countries I have listed are using renewable as part of there industrialization. The UK on the other hand and France have not taken an engineering approach to renewable and have instead put the horse before the cart and have gone political.
@mike6459 If we do that our doom is ensured. The market has no sense of the long-term or of being patient now so that we can survive longer. It's the tragedy of the commons.
Heh, Rifkin was named "The Most Hated Man in Science" in 1989 by Time. I can see why because of his extraordinary claims without much evidence to back their feasibility.
...I'm happy to see that older people are interested in the problems we face in our current world...hopefully their enthusiasm will be passed on to the grand children. While the things this man is saying are "right" I don't think he understands them...Geothermal under buildings??? Distribute all the oil in the last 30years between 7billion people less to go around???...What you meant to say is that we use oil at an exponential rate...Extinction of humanity due to CO2 gas???
its not a bad thing in fact I'm doing a science project based off of his Smart grid Communism is not "wrong" we just don't have the technological or political capacity to sustain ourself or handle pure equality if im an "idiot", please explain
@MrJamesilongiii Reducing the tax breaks and subsidization of oil companies who continue to make record profits. Hundreds of billions of dollars, freed.
Union for the Mediterranean, Unasur, North American Union.... the continentalization agenda has been unfolding for a looooooooong time. Smart grids... these things were conceived and planned long ago. The technical roots of this go back at least to the 1930's (Technocracy Inc). Nothing exactly "new" about it. The "Church(es)" wasn't/weren't ready for it at the time. Reminds me of the supressing of Teilhard de Chardin's books.
Jeremy Rifkin falsely attributes the 2008 economic collapse to the price of oil and totally ignores all the illegal and immoral synthetic banking products that the corporate bankers created, bet on, and lost, and then were bailed out by the governments with tax dollars from the people who lost their savings and investments. While he also refers to peak oil, he totally ignores changes in technology that are always game changers, such as hydraulic fracking that suddenly made the US an energy exporter instead of importer.
It's no more Communist than is the internet and file sharing. In addition to sharing MP3s and torrents we can share energy. It's a very good thing indeed!
I hope this guy survives from attempts on his life from hired killers employed by energy companies. Nah but that's just fear, this message will spread and is already past critical mass anyway
Currently the liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) is having a resurgence of interest worldwide. Thorium is plentiful and inexpensive. Google for more Info and videos.
conservative with a small 'c' might bear some relation to resource management. IOW, the plain spoken meaning of conservative has been lost, replaced by neo-con, tea-party and other unhelpful habits of thought. Going easy with remaining resources is sensible. Unfortunately, it means making choices that are very difficult. Something is going to have to give. The biggest part of a green revolution will be using less. That's the main way it might work. Assuming normal consumption is delusional.
UPDATE: I'm watching this video in August of 2018. The cycle he refers to that supposedly repeats every four years hasn't repeated itself yet. I guess the market corrected itself. I guess we shall wait and wonder.......
Great, but i think its too late for the change. Too much time and resources wasted already. I wish to be more optimistic, but 30 years its a very short time. Maybe after the collapse of our current Oil based world and 70 % population decrease and find balance , this new vision will rise from rubble. Maybe. I sure hope so
Jeremy is great as usual. But description is criminal: ".. thousands of businesses and millions of jobs.." Stop waving that rotten, idiotic, carrot of JOOOBS in from of our noses! Most people need income first.. then maybe something describable as "job".. but that toxic word also needs fundamental rethinking.
This man is a genius. When he dissected the way how the internet generation thinks, it nearly watered my eyes. An old man that can see the world though the kid's eyes. I bow down to you, sir.
He's a fool.
bizarrely his youtube channel has only 1.31k followers.
I wished more people were like this guy....
I just listened to the full-length (1hr14) audio via the link in the information provided by the uploader. It's well worth a listen if you have the time. Rifkin says a lot more and there is a good Q&A. Interesting comments regarding influencing politicians to take notice of the need to make the changes that Rifkin and others are campaigning for.
i really liked it from 18:20 onwards, how the current generation of kids thinks differently:
>"the young kids they don't think right/left... don't think capitalism/socialism, liberal/conservative. When they judge institutional behaviour - the internet generation - they ask is this institution centralised, patriarchal, top down, closed and proprietary...or is this institutional behaviour distributed, collaborative, open, transparent and lateral. That's all the spectrum we need to get it right"
Nicely put Mr Rifkin. A positive solution to replace out of date and destructive infrastructure.
Wow... Extremely well explained.
I had been thinking about the way we could share energy produced individually within the closer community before it goes further afield. But of course we have to recreate the network that facilitates this.
@QuitePossiblyANinja Who says? The logic there is that people will only start to think about alternatives when there is no choice. We Must continue to educate people of alternatives because so many of us just simply do not know. Get this Viral!
@Dagvalda I still maintain you are talking about the political movement of communism not the social and economical ideology it was based on. I'm just particularly referring to the work of Karl Marx. I just think given certain technological advances like for instance cars and internet could have had it come to fruition differently.
Main thing is, we need to work on transparency before we bring in a new way of looking at economics and politics.
Rifkin, in a way, reminds me of Brzezinski in the 1960's, when Between Two Ages was first published. Both are very influential within their political spheres - Brzezinski in the US, Rifkin in the EU. Btw, I bet Rifkin has some interesting conversations with his friends in Bethesda, Maryland.
Laterally: side to side.
"A redesigned form of communism"? Hmm...I can see your point, but no, it is not the same. Distributed energy regimes, administered and operated laterally, do not require the kind of shared decision-making demanded in communism (from 'commune': close-knit community of people who share everything or almost everything). The five-pillar infrastructure would be managed as a market. In a commune, however, everyone must meet, discuss, and collaborate even in consumption.
The link to the full talk (audio only) is in the info for this video.
I come to your question a year late, but perhaps I can offer you an answer. The money is already there for this all-or-nothing eco-logical redevelopment (not a 'green dream' as you put it), and it requires reinvesting intelligently, not short-sightedly as is the case nowadays. Sales, property and income taxes, and business profits can be judiciously reinvested into transforming neighborhoods, towns and cities into the five-pillar technological nodes required for this to work. All hands on deck.
@kekeke01 I think Rifkin is using a loose analogy of the Internet in order to explain the ideas. No doubt he could make a stronger case, given more time to present the details. I noticed he checked his watch a few times so he was obviously pushed for time. Also, we don't know the audience, perhaps not very tech-aware, so he had to keep it simple.
Lateral. Laterally. I KNEW he was selling SOMETHING other than an idea - The Third Industrial Revolution: How Lateral Power Is Transforming Energy, the Economy, and the World. And the kids he's talking about? They know what the best gun to use in MW3 or what the Kardashians are up to. Yet they can't/won't rake a leaf or shovel snow and expect everything for free. I'll have what he's having, please. Make mine a double!
@masteriux I believe we will have a mass die-off as well.
All of these intellectual talks are pointing towards that conclusion, but the speakers dance around the highly uncomfortable topic every time.
great lecture
Genius. Now he just needs to talk to everyone in the world. Dang it.
Also, I'd love to hear how that "energy internet" thing actually works. It sounds like science fiction.
"The young kids they don't think Right/Left. They don't think Capitalism/Socialism, Liberal/Conservative. When they judge institutional behaviour (the internet generation) they ask, "is this institution centralized, patriarchal, top-down, closed and proprietary? Or is this institutional behaviour distributed, collaborative, open, transparent and lateral? That's all the spectrum we need to get it right."
all the "things" he talks about that'll magick the new order into play are products of high energy industry - science, computers, mobile phones, communication towers, grids etc: the new world of distributed energy will have a big job to deliver energy concentrations for manufacturing, or extraction.
@thdyoung Trun the light into eletricity then use it to power an arc furnice.
@MrJamesilongiii I'm not sure. But if we as a species care more about a concept of value as something transmissible between entities rather than the resources that are necessitated to sustain us, I'm sure we'll be going down a worser path.
@ipwnorcs people hate me for saying this, but communism came at a wrong time. Pretty much every societal structure was susceptible to corruption, we are just moving out of one as we realize the potential of constant transparency.
Personally I love seeing groups taking the initiative and consume their market.
Now I am ready to see politics do the same.
Oh was that it? Communism is our savior it just came too early? Hahahahahahaha. You're a fool.
This man speaks the truth!
@TheSelfGoverned it's just another Malthusian catastrophe that we'll solve, same as we always do.
It's fun solving these things.
With covid, whats after covid 19? I always ask that after seeing the bushfires in australia and California that was sad, then hearing zombie apocalypse in movies and all sorts of things? Like alien the movie? Or world war 3 movies watched like that based on future events? Really mind boggling? I turn my tv off sometimes and radio and disconnect sometimes is the best way listen to beachs on waves and sands calms the soul something natural for once i should do instead i hearing the digital slave clip I've seen? Im staying next post in 4-6 or 8 weeks need a rest to recoup? Means relax?
We need a decentralized collaborative system, and that is what Jeremy Rifkin suggests.
Sounds like a transitional phase towards a Resource Based Economy to me.
Sounds like a great step in the right direction, however, I think the corporations will continue to suck every cent out of the working poor. We don;t get a lot for our taxes these days. Around 1920 there were advocates in Cda to nationalize electricity and I think it should be!
@jdebruynviolin A market is a reflection of the people and society in which it exists. So, whether or not it's patient has to do with a particular people and society. The same would be true of non-market societies.
@MarkoKraguljac How do you get income with a job, unless you're already wealthy.
@MrGmodlol61 Did I miss something? What company is trying to change the world?
how do you do produce steel using solar energy ?
www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-way-to-make-steel-uses-electricity/ Cleaner AND less expensive to use electricity. Another option is Germany's Third Industrial Revolution model. Excess renewable energy is used to hydrolyze water, producing pure oxygen (a marketable product) and hydrogen. Hydrogen is stored in the nation's natural gas grid and can be burned directly to melt iron, or converted back into electricity in fuel cells, or in standard turbine generators. Renewables are much more flexible than simply burning oil or coal.
So what of his theory today of every 4yr crash?
Europe has committed industrial suicide,with so called green energies that kill energy intensive industries first...Thanks for the jobs,the resourcing of manufacturing from high cost electricity nations in Europe/ASIA ...Has caused a tidal shift of those jobs to the lower cost US....
Europe has put the cart before the horse with actually having the engineering to create what is desired.
True pure luck the engineering is going to create a decentralized energy structure that uses solar, wind, wave, hydro and geothermal.
Iceland for example has created the engineering to take advantage of its geothermal energy.
It now has something 97% of its electricity created by geo-energy.
If you look at Luxembourg Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and Norway they have all made massive inroads with renewable's and it has not cost them jobs.
Those countries I have listed are using renewable as part of there industrialization. The UK on the other hand and France have not taken an engineering approach to renewable and have instead put the horse before the cart and have gone political.
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/80950dfe-8901-11e3-9f48-00144feab7de.html#axzz31us3dHaB
It is ,what it is...
@mike6459 If we do that our doom is ensured. The market has no sense of the long-term or of being patient now so that we can survive longer. It's the tragedy of the commons.
Money are supposed to be critical theory founded in paradigm. But it has evolved into social-constructivism.
Heh, Rifkin was named "The Most Hated Man in Science" in 1989 by Time. I can see why because of his extraordinary claims without much evidence to back their feasibility.
@ShowSomeLove89 His point still ends up that we cant possibly substain ourselfs for the next 50+ years
ps im 16
@mike6459 lol yes, good point
...I'm happy to see that older people are interested in the problems we face in our current world...hopefully their enthusiasm will be passed on to the grand children.
While the things this man is saying are "right" I don't think he understands them...Geothermal under buildings??? Distribute all the oil in the last 30years between 7billion people less to go around???...What you meant to say is that we use oil at an exponential rate...Extinction of humanity due to CO2 gas???
its not a bad thing
in fact I'm doing a science project based off of his Smart grid
Communism is not "wrong"
we just don't have the technological or political capacity to sustain ourself or handle pure equality
if im an "idiot", please explain
@kekeke01 oh i'm glad i'm not the only one who cringed everytime he made that analogy.
this is so 70's
@mike6459 Market is too chaotic and shortsighted.
@betadryl Yes but he talks about 'plugging' in to a centralized energy (computer?) system. It sounds very Orwellian to me.
@MrJamesilongiii Reducing the tax breaks and subsidization of oil companies who continue to make record profits. Hundreds of billions of dollars, freed.
Union for the Mediterranean, Unasur, North American Union.... the continentalization agenda has been unfolding for a looooooooong time. Smart grids... these things were conceived and planned long ago. The technical roots of this go back at least to the 1930's (Technocracy Inc). Nothing exactly "new" about it. The "Church(es)" wasn't/weren't ready for it at the time. Reminds me of the supressing of Teilhard de Chardin's books.
Jeremy Rifkin falsely attributes the 2008 economic collapse to the price of oil and totally ignores all the illegal and immoral synthetic banking products that the corporate bankers created, bet on, and lost, and then were bailed out by the governments with tax dollars from the people who lost their savings and investments. While he also refers to peak oil, he totally ignores changes in technology that are always game changers, such as hydraulic fracking that suddenly made the US an energy exporter instead of importer.
the guy said "latterly" well over 60 times,
sounds like a redesigned form of communism based around energy production.
It's no more Communist than is the internet and file sharing. In addition to sharing MP3s and torrents we can share energy. It's a very good thing indeed!
I hope this guy survives from attempts on his life from hired killers employed by energy companies. Nah but that's just fear, this message will spread and is already past critical mass anyway
We have to get with it! We are using a dead model. 4/2/24
Wheres the money?
@rctube1958 We are all already wealthy.
@thdyoung Solar Furnace
@haribharadwaj1 Stuck in 401ks, treasury bonds, and mutual funds.
You know....fake paper investments.
@MrGmodlol61 either change it or we all die by the end of the century
This is the venus project ...... Only mr rifkin doesn't address the monetary sistem. It's brilliant nonetheless.
Currently the liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) is having a resurgence of interest worldwide. Thorium is plentiful and inexpensive. Google for more Info and videos.
I think you misunderstood the concept of distributed system if you think communism will provide just that.
conservative with a small 'c' might bear some relation to resource management. IOW, the plain spoken meaning of conservative has been lost, replaced by neo-con, tea-party and other unhelpful habits of thought. Going easy with remaining resources is sensible. Unfortunately, it means making choices that are very difficult. Something is going to have to give. The biggest part of a green revolution will be using less. That's the main way it might work. Assuming normal consumption is delusional.
@mysterywhiteboy72 THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING BOUT!! lol xD
@mike6459 fuck the market, let's let human needs and scientific method decide what energy paradigm is supreme lol
Hydrogen is a dream
UPDATE: I'm watching this video in August of 2018. The cycle he refers to that supposedly repeats every four years hasn't repeated itself yet. I guess the market corrected itself. I guess we shall wait and wonder.......
Tesla
Great, but i think its too late for the change. Too much time and resources wasted already. I wish to be more optimistic, but 30 years its a very short time. Maybe after the collapse of our current Oil based world and 70 % population decrease and find balance , this new vision will rise from rubble. Maybe. I sure hope so
Where is the money going to come from for this all or nothing green dream?
Jeremy is great as usual. But description is criminal: ".. thousands of businesses and millions of jobs.." Stop waving that rotten, idiotic, carrot of JOOOBS in from of our noses! Most people need income first.. then maybe something describable as "job".. but that toxic word also needs fundamental rethinking.