A LOT of older enterprise PCs have been getting BIOS updates recently... In addition to spectre and meltdown, vulnerabilities were found in the Intel Management Engine that's embedded in so many of them. I've got a 10 year-old Dell Latitude that saw an update in 2019. It doesn't even officially support anything higher than Windows 7...
@Bob Sacamano highly debatable. bios updates can add microcode. AMD did fair better in its first ryzens after a bios update or two. Bios updates provided performance gains and stability.
@Bob Sacamano Actually it does have some performance impact. The solution to get some of that performance back is to put in faster RAM to counter the spectre/meltdown bios updates. So for gen 4/5 1150 socket boards is to update RAM from DDR3-1600 to say DDR3-2133 if supported.
Depending on workload and what microarchitecture it is, the fixes for spectre (which required BIOS update, this is why these old system have been getting supported again) and meltdown, the performance impact can be as high as 3rd from what I've read for multithreaded loads. It can pretty much be equal impact to disabling hyperthreading, the fix to the schedulers is similar in effect. On the vSphere servers I've enabled the fixes on, the idle CPU usage went from 1-3% to minimum 30% for Westmere. My Hashwell servers seemed to fair a bit better, but I did not have them running in the clusters before the fixes.
freeman239 incorrect. The i7s are hyper-threaded (able to run two threads per processor if the software is properly optimized for it), and the i5s are not. Seems like a minor point, but at the wafer level, there are more registers and some logic differences to determine whether the hyper-threading can be used. All the i7s of a particular generation are speed binned for maximum clock, but all are hyper-threaded; the various i5s in a particular generation are also speed binned, but none are hyper threaded. All that has changed after the 8th Gen Intel CPUs, but all this is true for the generations prior to Gen 8. In summary, the i5s and i7s are different silicon/wafers, the i5s being smaller dies.
@@kostaskritsilas2681 they almost all still come from the same wafer. Nothing he said was incorrect. The i5 is essentially a binned i7 with HT and some L3 disabled. They are identical on the chip level, just different parts enabled. Xeon SP is as well, literally identical hardware with different features enabled.
ummm what? The thermal design power (TDP), sometimes called thermal design point, is the maximum amount of heat generated by a computer chip or component (often a CPU, GPU or system on a chip) that the cooling system in a computer is designed to dissipate under any workload.
well you might be in a bit of a ditch there with respects to the difference of TDP on Intel and AMD CPUs. To my knowledge, both shouldn't exceed the TDP at any time, but Ryzen CPUs are actually much much closer to their rated TDP in operation than Intel which can be a lot short of that
For Intel the TDP right now is the sustained power at base speeds. It will spike way higer than that as long as it has temp headroom (Boost), and some MOBOs will aply mild overclocks by default (All core Boost) that really trows the oficial TDP out of the window.
The CPUs have the same exact die, just more crippled for product segmentation reasons. Possibly also to improve yields, that 2MB cache block might have been defective, or maybe the i5 die was too leaky to meet the TDP spec with all the parts fully enabled.
I remember years ago (2008 or 2009) when AMD released their new quad core athlon CPUs and if you bought one of their new duel core's you could unlock the other 2 core's if you were lucky, I think the same happened with the bulldozer series of AMD CPUs as well, like you could unlock 2 more core's from a quad core to a 6 core. Anyone remember this?
Also known as binning. Chips get tiered according to silicon quality. Lower quality parts get stuff disabled (like HT, whole cores, etc), gets specced for lower clocks and are labeled as cheaper products.
Yes, that is very common in all desktop and server CPUs and GPUs. Product / market segmentation, allow to optimize the revenue compared to manufacturing costs. Also the chip could have few failed transistors, most likely in the cache, and it is easiest to disable some core and still sell it at different price. Also due to manufacturing tolerances, two perfect CPUs might work stable at different max frequency, and again they will land as two different products. The i5 vs i7, and things like hyper-threading, vPro, is purely marking tho to spread the price more and justify bigger prices for i7 parts. I don't condone that method, but it might make sense depending on your budged and how well your workload is optimized for different things. AMD this sell all CPUs with HT, and only differences are number of functional cores (non-defective ones) and their frequency. It still sometimes happen that due to demand they will intentionally disable some fully working cores, just to keep the market segmentation, but really it doesn't bother me. Some people might even unlock it sometimes, i.e. in GPUs it was the case few times. AMD these days are doing the smartest thing, and they only have 1 or 2 dies per generation for entire CPU, and then configure them differently in the system, do binning, and create all their chips, including desktop and server ones. Intel usually have 3-4 different die designs per generation for desktop and 2-3 per generation for server, depending on number of cores mostly. Nvidia GPUs usually have 3 dies too. I.e. 1 die will be shared by few top SKUs, and will differ by core numbers, and frequencies, and possibly artificially crippled to only support specific amount of memory. So the same die can land in a 400$ product and in 1200$ product. Funny enough is, GPUs have a lot of cores, so if one if faulty, it will automatically land as a lower price SKU, but to make them all look the same they will artificially select which cores to disable, usually using software to look them all the same. But there will be few extra functional cores inside that are simply not used. If you can unlock it, you can get substantial improvements. Intel is regarded usually as a king in terms of binning and product segmentation. Each generation they will often create 3-4 different dies, but it will land in about 30 different products. Madness, and very confusing, but they do it all the time.
Is not the same die. Intel uses the QC GT2 die for non k i5 processors a 1.4b transistor, 177m2 silicon die. While k series i5, i7 and entry level Xeons use the QC GT3 die, a 1.7b transistors, 260mm2 silicon die. en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/haswell_(client)
Back in the day 30-25 years ago, I’ve sold a lot of HP systems and had to upgrade quite a few too. Even then the case was extremely well designed. Everything was very easily accessible with almost no screws. It was a joy to work on.
I beg your pardon! While I may have been the last generation to use both the wax+knife and a fully digital press workflow, I am no filthy boomer, sir! By hours, perhaps, but I dwell in that technology first-adoptor twilight ‘tween The Boomer and the X’er… I am of neither tribe, and walk this path alone….
Beware of TDP power ratings. They are NOT an indication of the actual power use of a CPU. It is a guideline for the thermal design, indicating what grade of cooling solution is recommended. It really has very little to do with the actual power use of the CPU. That depends mostly on what kind of load it's running. The i7 4770 is a pretty good chip, still. I have it's Xeon counterpart (E3-1245v3) running a games server, which is pretty much the same chip, only with ECC support and maybe (not sure) some tweaks to the cache. Most of the time it's just idling between 5 and 8 watts power use.
Yes Dave, this CPU has all the hardware bugs and vulnerabilities under the sun. Proper mitigations can slow these CPUs down quite a bit, in some tasks.
@@tomvleeuwen Yes and no, most of the microcode changes actually just make software mitigations possible, without the new microcode the OS just runs with many mitigations disabled.
Hey dave :) 15:41 - Unfortunately all Intel CPUs made since 1995 are affected by those vulnerabilities. 11:47 - Yes,They are the same die,Intel bins the dies but they output a lot of good quality dies so a core i5 and even a core i3 can end up with a good quality die so they "cripple" them. 16:50 - For benchmarking the CPU i recommend Cinebench R15 for 8 cores or lower,and Cinebench R20 for CPUs with more than 8 core. 7:58 - That's not the stock Intel cooler - That's an aftermarket cooler from Cooler Master,I use the Cooler Master 212 EVO which is very nice and huge.
@Power Play My old dell PC came with CM fan on what I presumed was an intel heatsink, it was the i5 250. I could be wrong about the heatsink, but it looked the exact same as the 2500k heatsink I got when I upgraded back then.
Great find! Older i7's hold their value very well on the used market (e.g. they're substantially overpriced) due to how many people want to upgrade without having to ditch their whole system.
didn't people realise that they could upgrade to Xeon? they look really cheap in used market but they're actually a Server grade CPU, of higher quality silicon, they're very pricy when they're first sold.
@@xponen server CPUs aren't "higher grade" silicon. The 4c8t xeons still sell for 60-100 bucks, which is way too close to a 1600 AF. And the cheap xeon E3 you can just drop on your existing motherboard were cheap initially as well, MSRP around 250 bucks 6 years ago
If your talking about Meltdown and the various versions of Spectre snaf00's, its a microcode change that shut off various things plus Bios/OS level mitigations that causes slowdowns for services and applications.
Did you mean the spectre and meltdown patches? If so then yes, they're also affected. Almost every intel cpu was/is affected except for some of the older atom cpus IIRC. Depends on the slow down though, she'll be alright, no "crippling" lol
@@excitedbox5705 I guess the only difference then, is that Atom didn't lie to the market about how fast their chips were, allowing them to charge us a premium price?
Nice find. Anything quad-core Sandy Bridge or newer are still great chips for many tasks. It's wild that Haswell stuff is starting to get trash canned. All these computers really need is just an SSD.
Though I don't understand why instead of just not installing any OS FreeDOS is basically useless except for certain specific use cases like firmware flashing
@@InfernosReaper Actually, there's another reason as well: Microsoft tends to refuse to give bulk discounts to OEMs who sell machines without OSes. Offering something like FreeDOS (which is pretty useless for modern applications, and really only of use if you're setting up a retro machine) gets them around the problem.
That lower CPU score comes from the security patches in the new BIOS. I love dumpster diving. I never walk past a recycling pile without seeing what I can find. I have gotten a dish washer, 2 microwaves, a fridge compressor, an i5 CPU, 2 speaker boxes, some metal parts, 4 printers, a 14" TV with dvd, a cd player radio, a room heater, some motors, parts storage bins all in the last 2 months. Last month I saw 3 of those storage cabinets with the clear plastic trays on the way to my GFs house but when I went back someone else had snatched them already. Right now I am on the hunt for a big LCD tv to use for a big SLA 3d printer. I see TVs all the time around here. If I remove the backing to the panel and replace the backlighting with UV LEDs I should be able to cast UV shadow masks through an aquarium bottom to cure the resin.
They are made on a 350mm wafer using DUV immersion lithography with SADP (Self Aligned Double Patterning, allows 14nm transistor size with 126nm light source (complex arrangement of lasers mainly an argon excimer laser)).
I got a 4770k in a server. It's a good chip. Lots of overclocking headroom, as long as you cool it properly. If you don't want to OC it, it can be undervolted like crazy, to make it run really cool.
@@controlledsingularity8084 Still use a 3770K to, overclocked to 4.4Ghz, still runs fine. Only limit is the 8Gb of RAM that I have. I'm thinking about changing my system for a new Ryzen, but it works so fine.
Chips on 4th gen are software/microcode gimped, no laser cuts like on Nvidia. 4th gen even had a bug on moblie CPUs, where if you removed the microcode, the CPU would be unlocked and you could overclock it. Almost the same thing happened with Xeons, except only allowing max turbo on all cores.
Interesting, probably similar happenings with 3rd gen too. My i7-3740qm quad-core has modified UEFI variables that allows an all core boost of 4GHz, passmark of 9579 vs 8296, it does eventually thermal throttle after a few minutes though as it’s only a laptop.
If you have 2x 4GB sticks of ram they are probably running in dual channel mode. Swapping one stick for a 8GB stick will lower performance - be interesting to see by how much?
I use Passmark as a primary reference. Most of your viewers likely look up benchmarks applying to their applications, but I've found Passmark to be a good general indicator to see if you "got what you paid for", and especially useful on new builds where you might have missed a setting in the BIOS. Pro tip: Run Passmark on a clean system before you load it full of everything that makes it actually useful. Top 5% in your class, every time.
I think you are right, that missing pad was for a TPM, because not only same pinout, The TPM is usually placed onto the LPC bus, and you can see some of the via's snaking off to common pins between LPC (marked E17 LPC) and TPM. also in the opposite direction, an empty jumper is marked "FDO" (Flash override) header which is related to temporarily disabling the Intel ME management engine, which you might do to reset the TPM. Also the BIOS updates were likely in relation to this TPM/ME stuff, plus the Spectre/Meltdown stuff.
I always sold HP pro laptops when I did the ICT thing, customers were always happy with the reliability and the years of use they got. My current home office machine is an ex work HP Prodesk 600 G1 when we decommissioned our old real automation systems, it was an admin desktop that didn't get much stress. It was a downgrade from my old i7 rig, but I do stuff all these days!
Recently I switched to using HP SoftPaq Download Manager on the HP business computers. I love to manually download drivers otherwise, but on the business ones it avoids a lot of struggle. It shows the available drivers, firmware, and software in a much better presentation, and can load them all at once in one reboot. I'm a huge fan of prodesk/elitedesk and would place them above Optiplex in stability and reliability.
Great find! Yes, the 4770, like all Intel CPUs manufactured up until recently is naturally vulnerable to the Spectre and Meltdown bugs. Most motherboards (especially enterprise ones) can have their BIOS updated to deploy newer microcode that mitigates these issues, with the cost of some performance. (their late 2019 CPUs now include in-silicon fixes for these bugs) The 4770 won't show much improvement in single-core benchmarks, but as you noted, multi-threaded tasks (like video editing) will see a nice boost. I use this same CPU for my lab PC as well -- pulled it from an old Dell Optiplex unit. Keep on salvaging!
I have a Dell Optiplex slim form factor like this. I bought a slim Blu-Ray drive for it, SSD, and 3.5" 2TB HDD for movie storage. It's only a core 2 duo but has been acting like my 60" plasma TV's entertainment system for the last 5 years now. Excellent machine
An old core 2 duo has more than enough power for a media center. My 10 year old thinkpad has a core 2 duo and it software decodes 1080P HEVC without dropping any frames. My phone plays the same videos like a slideshow.
@@rocketman221projects I don't doubt it. I forgot to mention I also have a low profile, passive heatsink Radeon in there for h264 Blu-Ray decoding too, so she runs like a champ.
Those 4th gen CPUs use a thermal paste under the heat spreader on the CPU, you can delid the cpu with a vise and put replace it with liquid metal and get lower temps, typically done for non-sub 0 overclocking and/or lower noise levels, since it is not a 4770K/4790k/4690k/4570k you can't overclock it
Always interesting what you find in the dumpster room. Unfortunately in Germany, where I live, electronics must be recycled properly and most of the good stuff ends up at the local recycling center with no chance to get hold of the stuff. But recently I got a free Samsung TV on eBay classifieds that just needs some new backlight. So for under 20€ I have now a bedroom TV.
Nice!. Something similar in my case, a beauty Celeron with motherboard rescued from a typical office miniPC. Now is a low consumption Debian based OpenMediaVault NAS. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle (hope Apple learn something in this regard).
Yes it does have meltdown and spectre. There has also been a security issue on the integrated graphics which knocked the performance below the previous generation. This particular cpu along with a bunch of laptop socket G3 cpus has an interesting bug in a certain microcode revision that allows infinite turbo bins on fully locked chips. Turbo bins are partial overclocking, they were made for cpus like 3840qm which allows +4 multiplier. -XM(extreme edition mobile) cpus had these turbo bins on infinite. Your regular -K chips are also infinite.
Ive got a couple of the HP Elitedesk 600 G1's at home, they all have the i7 4770 with 16gb ram. Good machines and really fast. Definitely built to last like you say.
The 4770 has a locked CPU clock. No tweaking is possible. You will however notice a huge improvement in benchmark scores if you run it multiple times in a row, due to predictive algorithms.
You forgot to mention, that on your motherboard support page, there normally is a cpu supported page, ie telling you what cpus are compatible with your motherboard, and after which bios version.
Yeah, small form factor PCs are more sensible for general purposes. Modular rigs are still useful for specialist uses, as long as they're built to the right specs for the job.
Those two chips uses the exact same die, but the i5 one usually have some problems related to frequency and stability with hyperthreading and Intel crippled them down. All those dies start off as "Xeon E3-1285Kv3" or "Xeon E3-1286Kv3" and have its features tested to determine what to turn off. If there are failing cores it would become an i3 or a Pentium G3000 series. If it is unstable with hyperthreading on it would become i5. If it can fetch high frequencies it would become the overclockers i5-4670K and i7-4770K. And if those chips manage to run at low voltages they would become Xeon E3-1200v3 series.
THe sad part is that it hardly makes sense to upgrade older Intel Systems as the used CPUs are just way too expensive. A 4 Core/8 Thread CPU is somewhere north of 150€ or so. But a similar, modern Chip from "the other side" you can get a 6 Core for 100€ as well...
The K suffix means it is overclockable. The 10k PassMark will be someone who has overclocked. This is usually a motherboard/bios feature, so a SFF HP probably wouldn't support it.
Sometimes you can peel that sticker off the fan and some have a hole where you can drip a drop of oil, even penetrating oil and cover it back up, if it doesn't spin right off give it a spin.
I almost never encounter a fan with good lubrication on the sleeve bearing(s), whether it's a PC fan, a personal fan, or a window/box fan. But I clean out the factory garbage oil where possible and put in Shell ROTELLA diesel truck motor oil, SAE 10W-40. It is a little heavier than optimum for a good bearing, but it revives bearings that have been squealing and/or seized up. It has the special additives which make the oil flow TOWARDS heat instead of away from heat. Fans that were thrown out many years ago because they were seized up are still running now. I learned about ROTELLA decades ago, when it was the specified oil for the severe conditions inside the Wankel engine of my Suzuki RE-5 motorcycle. _Man, I miss that bike!_
worth mentioning that if you only have 1 memory chip, or you mix-and-match different sizes/speeds for memory, you can cripple your system's performance more than the extra memory helps because you can't get the benefit that comes from dual-channel memory.
I also have HP ProDesk 400 (Newer and bigger one tho, G5 or something) but cheap ass boss had bought base model with 8GG RAM and no GPU, it was lagging hard on Proteus and CAD software so upgraded to 16GB and passive GT1030 as well.
❤️ business desktops, super cute and quiet and remind me of Amigas and Acorns! I like to add an old school keyboard and mouse and emulate an Atari ST 😀👍
12:00 - You can read about "binning" on the Internet to find out how different product skews of silicon is actually being made. It's a mix of everything basically.
I don't think he's unaware of the concept of binning, but asking whether the i5 is actually a separate chip from the i7 or if it is the same chip that came out lower in the binning process.
they are the same die, they laser cut the tracks to cache/hyperthreading and set the clock speed with ucode/CPUID bits telling the BIOS what it's supposed to run at. they also bin all the chips, the highest bin is xeon, then i7/i5/some i3, other i3/pentium/celeron are another line with different silicon wafers.
I ran the passmark benchmark on my laptop's i7 4710HQ and got basically the same results; a score of 8947. A rather interesting result as the 4710HQ is only rated for 2.5ghz(3.5ghz turbo) and 47 watts TDP.
I don't know anything about these kiddy gaming pcs there below me I stopped caring about processors ... But PewDiePie I know all about his holidays... wtf ?
Dave, in no way am I affiliated but have you tried using Akasa TIM clean. It is a Citrus based cleaner. I have been using it for many years. Fantastic stuff
Yes, this CPU is affected by the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities. The recent BIOS patch is likely released to include some workarounds for the exploits. The patches in the BIOS update is also likely part of the slower PassMark score of your machine vs. the average score submitted online. Technically speaking, all Intel chips that support out-of-order execution are affected in some way by the vulnerabilities. This means they go back as far as the Pentium Pro from the mid-1990's.
These are Haswell CPUs and as such are defnitely affected by the spectre/meltdown/zombieload etc. bugs. Depending on what you're doing with it you might not notice much difference between patched and unpatched though. I understand that the peak performance of high end NVMe drives is what's affected the most. On my 4790k machine (overclocked to 4.8ghz), there is a small difference with frame time consistency in high refresh rate games too.
Correct, Intel fuses off or disables portions of the die/certain functionality (L3 cache, HT, etc.) based on yield. And yes the latest BIOS updates after Meltdown/Spectre were revealed will impact performance up to 30% in some cases (SSD and storage performance is impacted the most), with the average being 5-15%.
I guess I am OLD... I still LIKE those big old desktop computers for use in the office instead of the Small Form Factor (SFF) units. With those big old clunkers, it's still VERY easy even today to 'upgrade' them with a new MoBo, CPU, RAM (and sometimes PSU too). The SFF units often have a very 'non-standard' MoBo meaning you're kinda STUCK with it unless you change the case too.
Same reason I use the big boxes. Even have some repurposed old HP Vectra desktops (horizontal type) that I've stuck new mobos and PSUs in. I use a repurposed Imation SuperDisk in the floppy slot, just in case I have a floppy or two to read.
You found a recent bios update because of specter and meltdown vulnerability.... Windows does have patches too but they are not worth keeping since they really slow down i/o operations and risks are very low for our home computers. Main pc still has a 4790 which is a refresh of your 4770, it is still a worthwhile cpu especially if you have an high motherboard with nvme support and overclocked ram (mine is running 2x8gb dual channel at 2133mhz). Edit2: it is still very capable for modern gaming too but you really need to run it in dual channel memory configuration
@@MasterControl90original That too. The whole debacle is a **it show. If you get someone to run your software you're already in anyway. I can understand the concern with js and flash etc but compiled code running on the host os?
Bios is updated, not for compatibility, but Meltdown and Specre mitigation. So, you only made your machine slower by that update. Also...both CPUs are the same generations and family...so no update needed before swap. Still, great little upgrade. 😉
BIOS Updates can often cause more problems than they're worth. I tend to leave them alone for now. Yes, that bug that you said about (Spectre?) had to be patched and it reduces performance. Also BIOS updates can negatively affect CPU temperatures and fan control curves, which happened with my HP laptop.
i think the biggest thing you didnt mention is that your previous CPU had 4 cores and 4 threads while the new one has 4 cores and 8 threads (hyperthreading). thats a substantial upgrade. the single core score might not be as good but the multi core benchmark would be better. edit: spoke too soon, you mentioned it
Intel would insert wait states into the microcode for 3rd generation i5 & i3 processors, but not the i7 cores. I'm not sure if they still did that with the 4th Gen cores, but it does seem likely. It allows Intel to use a single RISC core in all of their CPU's.
The BIOS you installed contains microcode for the CPU to fix that issue, that's why there is an update after 5 years. The dies of those CPUs are the same, but they get rated after stress tests in the factory. So maybe parts of the cache failed, or the CPU is not stable at 4.6GHz, or running 8 threads went wrong, etc. AMD is so successful with their Ryzen CPUs beause they went a different way: creating lots of small chiplets and bonding the good ones together.
Have a similar one and dropped my old 4790k into it. Runs a gameserver now. Even with just the pitty 3 phase, without overclocking it runs fine since almost a year.
A LOT of older enterprise PCs have been getting BIOS updates recently... In addition to spectre and meltdown, vulnerabilities were found in the Intel Management Engine that's embedded in so many of them.
I've got a 10 year-old Dell Latitude that saw an update in 2019. It doesn't even officially support anything higher than Windows 7...
So testing before and after the bios update would've been insightful
@Bob Sacamano highly debatable. bios updates can add microcode. AMD did fair better in its first ryzens after a bios update or two. Bios updates provided performance gains and stability.
@Bob Sacamano actually it might, as bios updates can also include microcode updates with at least some fixes for meltdown, spectre et al.
@Bob Sacamano Actually it does have some performance impact. The solution to get some of that performance back is to put in faster RAM to counter the spectre/meltdown bios updates. So for gen 4/5 1150 socket boards is to update RAM from DDR3-1600 to say DDR3-2133 if supported.
Depending on workload and what microarchitecture it is, the fixes for spectre (which required BIOS update, this is why these old system have been getting supported again) and meltdown, the performance impact can be as high as 3rd from what I've read for multithreaded loads. It can pretty much be equal impact to disabling hyperthreading, the fix to the schedulers is similar in effect.
On the vSphere servers I've enabled the fixes on, the idle CPU usage went from 1-3% to minimum 30% for Westmere. My Hashwell servers seemed to fair a bit better, but I did not have them running in the clusters before the fixes.
And yes Dave, they all come from the same silicon wafers, and after they are cut they are "binned" into various tiers depending on their performance.
freeman239 incorrect. The i7s are hyper-threaded (able to run two threads per processor if the software is properly optimized for it), and the i5s are not. Seems like a minor point, but at the wafer level, there are more registers and some logic differences to determine whether the hyper-threading can be used. All the i7s of a particular generation are speed binned for maximum clock, but all are hyper-threaded; the various i5s in a particular generation are also speed binned, but none are hyper threaded. All that has changed after the 8th Gen Intel CPUs, but all this is true for the generations prior to Gen 8. In summary, the i5s and i7s are different silicon/wafers, the i5s being smaller dies.
@@kostaskritsilas2681 Thanks for clearing that up.
@@kostaskritsilas2681 they almost all still come from the same wafer. Nothing he said was incorrect. The i5 is essentially a binned i7 with HT and some L3 disabled. They are identical on the chip level, just different parts enabled. Xeon SP is as well, literally identical hardware with different features enabled.
Just a note that might help someone: TDP is how much power the chip package is designed for, not how much power it uses or how hot it will run.
ummm what? The thermal design power (TDP), sometimes called thermal design point, is the maximum amount of heat generated by a computer chip or component (often a CPU, GPU or system on a chip) that the cooling system in a computer is designed to dissipate under any workload.
Exactly, the i7-4770 only uses about 65-70 watts max unless it's overclocked.
well you might be in a bit of a ditch there with respects to the difference of TDP on Intel and AMD CPUs. To my knowledge, both shouldn't exceed the TDP at any time, but Ryzen CPUs are actually much much closer to their rated TDP in operation than Intel which can be a lot short of that
For Intel the TDP right now is the sustained power at base speeds. It will spike way higer than that as long as it has temp headroom (Boost), and some MOBOs will aply mild overclocks by default (All core Boost) that really trows the oficial TDP out of the window.
Adria Garceran I stand corrected, thx
The CPUs have the same exact die, just more crippled for product segmentation reasons. Possibly also to improve yields, that 2MB cache block might have been defective, or maybe the i5 die was too leaky to meet the TDP spec with all the parts fully enabled.
I remember years ago (2008 or 2009) when AMD released their new quad core athlon CPUs and if you bought one of their new duel core's you could unlock the other 2 core's if you were lucky, I think the same happened with the bulldozer series of AMD CPUs as well, like you could unlock 2 more core's from a quad core to a 6 core.
Anyone remember this?
Also known as binning. Chips get tiered according to silicon quality. Lower quality parts get stuff disabled (like HT, whole cores, etc), gets specced for lower clocks and are labeled as cheaper products.
Yes, that is very common in all desktop and server CPUs and GPUs. Product / market segmentation, allow to optimize the revenue compared to manufacturing costs. Also the chip could have few failed transistors, most likely in the cache, and it is easiest to disable some core and still sell it at different price. Also due to manufacturing tolerances, two perfect CPUs might work stable at different max frequency, and again they will land as two different products. The i5 vs i7, and things like hyper-threading, vPro, is purely marking tho to spread the price more and justify bigger prices for i7 parts. I don't condone that method, but it might make sense depending on your budged and how well your workload is optimized for different things. AMD this sell all CPUs with HT, and only differences are number of functional cores (non-defective ones) and their frequency. It still sometimes happen that due to demand they will intentionally disable some fully working cores, just to keep the market segmentation, but really it doesn't bother me. Some people might even unlock it sometimes, i.e. in GPUs it was the case few times. AMD these days are doing the smartest thing, and they only have 1 or 2 dies per generation for entire CPU, and then configure them differently in the system, do binning, and create all their chips, including desktop and server ones. Intel usually have 3-4 different die designs per generation for desktop and 2-3 per generation for server, depending on number of cores mostly. Nvidia GPUs usually have 3 dies too. I.e. 1 die will be shared by few top SKUs, and will differ by core numbers, and frequencies, and possibly artificially crippled to only support specific amount of memory. So the same die can land in a 400$ product and in 1200$ product. Funny enough is, GPUs have a lot of cores, so if one if faulty, it will automatically land as a lower price SKU, but to make them all look the same they will artificially select which cores to disable, usually using software to look them all the same. But there will be few extra functional cores inside that are simply not used. If you can unlock it, you can get substantial improvements. Intel is regarded usually as a king in terms of binning and product segmentation. Each generation they will often create 3-4 different dies, but it will land in about 30 different products. Madness, and very confusing, but they do it all the time.
Is not the same die. Intel uses the QC GT2 die for non k i5 processors a 1.4b transistor, 177m2 silicon die.
While k series i5, i7 and entry level Xeons use the QC GT3 die, a 1.7b transistors, 260mm2 silicon die.
en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/haswell_(client)
@@gabrielflorit4470 the difference is the iGPU, not the CPU itself.
Back in the day 30-25 years ago, I’ve sold a lot of HP systems and had to upgrade quite a few too. Even then the case was extremely well designed. Everything was very easily accessible with almost no screws. It was a joy to work on.
“when the screen goes awry and the plaid hits your eye, that’s a moire…"
Of course you realize that only we old Boomers will get that gag.
I beg your pardon! While I may have been the last generation to use both the wax+knife and a fully digital press workflow, I am no filthy boomer, sir! By hours, perhaps, but I dwell in that technology first-adoptor twilight ‘tween The Boomer and the X’er… I am of neither tribe, and walk this path alone….
@@vaalrus Goo goo g'joob
When a grid's misaligned with another behind, that's a Moire
@@demef758 I'm a millenial that gets that gag...
Bloody hell, Dave - are you applying thermal paste or icing a wedding cake! :)
www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3346-thermal-paste-application-benchmark-too-much-thermal-paste
Its been proven multiple times over that the "pea" size is not as good as a giant glob.
These dumpster dives w/upgrades and/or hacks are some of my favorite videos you do, Dave.
Always been a believer of the 3 R's myself - reduce, reuse, recycle. It's great.
Keeps E-Waste down and maybe even helps other people!
Don't forget Recover.
You'll never get a job at HP with that kind of attitude!
And here i tought it was Race, Roll, Recover :)
I feel like these sorts of recycle moments can prolong many of our old systems into the future
Beware of TDP power ratings. They are NOT an indication of the actual power use of a CPU. It is a guideline for the thermal design, indicating what grade of cooling solution is recommended. It really has very little to do with the actual power use of the CPU. That depends mostly on what kind of load it's running. The i7 4770 is a pretty good chip, still. I have it's Xeon counterpart (E3-1245v3) running a games server, which is pretty much the same chip, only with ECC support and maybe (not sure) some tweaks to the cache. Most of the time it's just idling between 5 and 8 watts power use.
Yes, that's the whole point, it's for thermal design matching which is what I was talking about.
Yes Dave, this CPU has all the hardware bugs and vulnerabilities under the sun. Proper mitigations can slow these CPUs down quite a bit, in some tasks.
Updating the BIOS probably also installed new microcode, which is less crippled than software mitigation.
@@tomvleeuwen Yes and no, most of the microcode changes actually just make software mitigations possible, without the new microcode the OS just runs with many mitigations disabled.
Hey dave :)
15:41 - Unfortunately all Intel CPUs made since 1995 are affected by those vulnerabilities.
11:47 - Yes,They are the same die,Intel bins the dies but they output a lot of good quality dies so a core i5 and even a core i3 can end up with a good quality die so they "cripple" them.
16:50 - For benchmarking the CPU i recommend Cinebench R15 for 8 cores or lower,and Cinebench R20 for CPUs with more than 8 core.
7:58 - That's not the stock Intel cooler - That's an aftermarket cooler from Cooler Master,I use the Cooler Master 212 EVO which is very nice and huge.
@Power Play
My old dell PC came with CM fan on what I presumed was an intel heatsink, it was the i5 250. I could be wrong about the heatsink, but it looked the exact same as the 2500k heatsink I got when I upgraded back then.
Cooler Master makes the Intel coolers. Also many many GPU coolers, doesn't matter if AMD or NVidia. :)
That's why I still run my 486 :) Just as a vintage PC, not for everyday...
Great find! Older i7's hold their value very well on the used market (e.g. they're substantially overpriced) due to how many people want to upgrade without having to ditch their whole system.
not wrong - tried to upgrade my 6600k to a 6700k or 7700k but was cheaper/better value to sell the 6600k and upgrade to a ryzen 3600
The 4790k is so overpriced, some people seriously want more than 200€ for one.
it's seriously crazy. I could buy a mainboard + 16 gig RAM + 1600AF for under 200€
didn't people realise that they could upgrade to Xeon? they look really cheap in used market but they're actually a Server grade CPU, of higher quality silicon, they're very pricy when they're first sold.
@@xponen server CPUs aren't "higher grade" silicon.
The 4c8t xeons still sell for 60-100 bucks, which is way too close to a 1600 AF.
And the cheap xeon E3 you can just drop on your existing motherboard were cheap initially as well, MSRP around 250 bucks 6 years ago
If your talking about Meltdown and the various versions of Spectre snaf00's, its a microcode change that shut off various things plus Bios/OS level mitigations that causes slowdowns for services and applications.
He is. But Windows deals with all that.
Did you mean the spectre and meltdown patches? If so then yes, they're also affected. Almost every intel cpu was/is affected except for some of the older atom cpus IIRC. Depends on the slow down though, she'll be alright, no "crippling" lol
Atom CPUs don´t ned a patch to suck :D
@@excitedbox5705 Yeah true ^^
Supposedly the 9000 series are not affected. Supposedly...
@@freednighthawk 9*** series was effected by the more recent vulnerabilities the 10*** series is also supposed to be immune...
@@excitedbox5705 I guess the only difference then, is that Atom didn't lie to the market about how fast their chips were, allowing them to charge us a premium price?
Nice find. Anything quad-core Sandy Bridge or newer are still great chips for many tasks. It's wild that Haswell stuff is starting to get trash canned. All these computers really need is just an SSD.
I'd be keen to see a distributed computing experiment with all the spare machines you find down there
i was not expecting to watch an EEVBlog video and get the urge to rewatch iron skies
i wish i still had dumpsters accesable like that
Nice to see that HP offer FreeDOS as a pre-installed OS on the ProDesk.
Though I don't understand why instead of just not installing any OS
FreeDOS is basically useless except for certain specific use cases like firmware flashing
@@resneptacle Probably there specifically for that use you mentioned
@@InfernosReaper Actually, there's another reason as well: Microsoft tends to refuse to give bulk discounts to OEMs who sell machines without OSes. Offering something like FreeDOS (which is pretty useless for modern applications, and really only of use if you're setting up a retro machine) gets them around the problem.
13:28 - it is a copper plate, just a nickel plated copper cold plate to transfer the heat over to the copper heatpipes
Ah, thanks.
I don't think that cooler had a copper base esp. since it was likely built down to a price. Probably aluminum.
Isogen I agree the copper ones are heavier
That lower CPU score comes from the security patches in the new BIOS.
I love dumpster diving. I never walk past a recycling pile without seeing what I can find. I have gotten a dish washer, 2 microwaves, a fridge compressor, an i5 CPU, 2 speaker boxes, some metal parts, 4 printers, a 14" TV with dvd, a cd player radio, a room heater, some motors, parts storage bins all in the last 2 months. Last month I saw 3 of those storage cabinets with the clear plastic trays on the way to my GFs house but when I went back someone else had snatched them already.
Right now I am on the hunt for a big LCD tv to use for a big SLA 3d printer. I see TVs all the time around here. If I remove the backing to the panel and replace the backlighting with UV LEDs I should be able to cast UV shadow masks through an aquarium bottom to cure the resin.
How have I been watching EEblog for years without hearing Dave talk about Caish and Bias before?
They are made on a 350mm wafer using DUV immersion lithography with SADP (Self Aligned Double Patterning, allows 14nm transistor size with 126nm light source (complex arrangement of lasers mainly an argon excimer laser)).
I got a 4770k in a server. It's a good chip. Lots of overclocking headroom, as long as you cool it properly. If you don't want to OC it, it can be undervolted like crazy, to make it run really cool.
Nice Score, Dave. Happy 2020!!
I7 4770 is a great chip. I used to use a variant of it in my gaming pc.
I'm still using one haha, although I have the unlocked one so with a better cooler I could probably get some more performance
i use a i7 3770k,jesus nowadays its literally below dumpster grade?
Still using one in my music studio PC. Haven't found a reason to upgrade.
@@controlledsingularity8084 still solid CPU, think and live don't follow just hipe.
If a CPU can do required work it's a good CPU.
@@controlledsingularity8084 Still use a 3770K to, overclocked to 4.4Ghz, still runs fine. Only limit is the 8Gb of RAM that I have. I'm thinking about changing my system for a new Ryzen, but it works so fine.
Chips on 4th gen are software/microcode gimped, no laser cuts like on Nvidia.
4th gen even had a bug on moblie CPUs, where if you removed the microcode, the CPU would be unlocked and you could overclock it.
Almost the same thing happened with Xeons, except only allowing max turbo on all cores.
Interesting, probably similar happenings with 3rd gen too. My i7-3740qm quad-core has modified UEFI variables that allows an all core boost of 4GHz, passmark of 9579 vs 8296, it does eventually thermal throttle after a few minutes though as it’s only a laptop.
If you have 2x 4GB sticks of ram they are probably running in dual channel mode. Swapping one stick for a 8GB stick will lower performance - be interesting to see by how much?
I use Passmark as a primary reference. Most of your viewers likely look up benchmarks applying to their applications, but I've found Passmark to be a good general indicator to see if you "got what you paid for", and especially useful on new builds where you might have missed a setting in the BIOS. Pro tip: Run Passmark on a clean system before you load it full of everything that makes it actually useful. Top 5% in your class, every time.
Best thing you will notice will be the 8 threads compared to the 4 threads, plus the memory addition. Those will speed things up overall.
The memory mismatch... Yeah don't worry about that. More is better overall as well.
I think you are right, that missing pad was for a TPM, because not only same pinout, The TPM is usually placed onto the LPC bus, and you can see some of the via's snaking off to common pins between LPC (marked E17 LPC) and TPM. also in the opposite direction, an empty jumper is marked "FDO" (Flash override) header which is related to temporarily disabling the Intel ME management engine, which you might do to reset the TPM. Also the BIOS updates were likely in relation to this TPM/ME stuff, plus the Spectre/Meltdown stuff.
I always sold HP pro laptops when I did the ICT thing, customers were always happy with the reliability and the years of use they got.
My current home office machine is an ex work HP Prodesk 600 G1 when we decommissioned our old real automation systems, it was an admin desktop that didn't get much stress.
It was a downgrade from my old i7 rig, but I do stuff all these days!
Missed a prime opportunity for a "front fell off" joke at the start of the video Dave, you slipping? :P
Arctic should make a special batch of their paste and send Dave some Arctic Nano Quantum Wankery(TM)
Recently I switched to using HP SoftPaq Download Manager on the HP business computers. I love to manually download drivers otherwise, but on the business ones it avoids a lot of struggle. It shows the available drivers, firmware, and software in a much better presentation, and can load them all at once in one reboot. I'm a huge fan of prodesk/elitedesk and would place them above Optiplex in stability and reliability.
Great find! Yes, the 4770, like all Intel CPUs manufactured up until recently is naturally vulnerable to the Spectre and Meltdown bugs. Most motherboards (especially enterprise ones) can have their BIOS updated to deploy newer microcode that mitigates these issues, with the cost of some performance. (their late 2019 CPUs now include in-silicon fixes for these bugs)
The 4770 won't show much improvement in single-core benchmarks, but as you noted, multi-threaded tasks (like video editing) will see a nice boost. I use this same CPU for my lab PC as well -- pulled it from an old Dell Optiplex unit. Keep on salvaging!
I JUST dumpster dove and sold this computer last week!
Thermal compound only needs to be about the size of a cooked grain of rice. Not a big blob. Ah well.
I have a Dell Optiplex slim form factor like this. I bought a slim Blu-Ray drive for it, SSD, and 3.5" 2TB HDD for movie storage. It's only a core 2 duo but has been acting like my 60" plasma TV's entertainment system for the last 5 years now. Excellent machine
An old core 2 duo has more than enough power for a media center.
My 10 year old thinkpad has a core 2 duo and it software decodes 1080P HEVC without dropping any frames. My phone plays the same videos like a slideshow.
@@rocketman221projects I don't doubt it. I forgot to mention I also have a low profile, passive heatsink Radeon in there for h264 Blu-Ray decoding too, so she runs like a champ.
Dave: Am I six?
MI6: Dave?
Ryzen 5 3600 has 20K passmark and cost 190 bucks and only needs an +-$75 motherboard.
"my screw driver is under sized" that's what she said! lmfao!
Those 4th gen CPUs use a thermal paste under the heat spreader on the CPU, you can delid the cpu with a vise and put replace it with liquid metal and get lower temps, typically done for non-sub 0 overclocking and/or lower noise levels, since it is not a 4770K/4790k/4690k/4570k you can't overclock it
Always interesting what you find in the dumpster room. Unfortunately in Germany, where I live, electronics must be recycled properly and most of the good stuff ends up at the local recycling center with no chance to get hold of the stuff. But recently I got a free Samsung TV on eBay classifieds that just needs some new backlight. So for under 20€ I have now a bedroom TV.
Nice!. Something similar in my case, a beauty Celeron with motherboard rescued from a typical office miniPC. Now is a low consumption Debian based OpenMediaVault NAS. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle (hope Apple learn something in this regard).
Yes it does have meltdown and spectre. There has also been a security issue on the integrated graphics which knocked the performance below the previous generation. This particular cpu along with a bunch of laptop socket G3 cpus has an interesting bug in a certain microcode revision that allows infinite turbo bins on fully locked chips. Turbo bins are partial overclocking, they were made for cpus like 3840qm which allows +4 multiplier. -XM(extreme edition mobile) cpus had these turbo bins on infinite. Your regular -K chips are also infinite.
Ive got a couple of the HP Elitedesk 600 G1's at home, they all have the i7 4770 with 16gb ram. Good machines and really fast. Definitely built to last like you say.
The 4770 has a locked CPU clock. No tweaking is possible. You will however notice a huge improvement in benchmark scores if you run it multiple times in a row, due to predictive algorithms.
You forgot to mention, that on your motherboard support page, there normally is a cpu supported page, ie telling you what cpus are compatible with your motherboard, and after which bios version.
'There ya go, 8 gig, good enough for Australia' - gold!
Yeah, small form factor PCs are more sensible for general purposes. Modular rigs are still useful for specialist uses, as long as they're built to the right specs for the job.
Those two chips uses the exact same die, but the i5 one usually have some problems related to frequency and stability with hyperthreading and Intel crippled them down. All those dies start off as "Xeon E3-1285Kv3" or "Xeon E3-1286Kv3" and have its features tested to determine what to turn off. If there are failing cores it would become an i3 or a Pentium G3000 series. If it is unstable with hyperthreading on it would become i5. If it can fetch high frequencies it would become the overclockers i5-4670K and i7-4770K. And if those chips manage to run at low voltages they would become Xeon E3-1200v3 series.
You'd be surprised just how much moving the mouse affects the results of CPU benchmarks. Once you click, dont touch the mouse ;)
THe sad part is that it hardly makes sense to upgrade older Intel Systems as the used CPUs are just way too expensive. A 4 Core/8 Thread CPU is somewhere north of 150€ or so.
But a similar, modern Chip from "the other side" you can get a 6 Core for 100€ as well...
The K suffix means it is overclockable. The 10k PassMark will be someone who has overclocked. This is usually a motherboard/bios feature, so a SFF HP probably wouldn't support it.
I did lots of research at the time and got i7 4790K... 5 years ago... It is still kicking ass.
Sometimes you can peel that sticker off the fan and some have a hole where you can drip a drop of oil, even penetrating oil and cover it back up, if it doesn't spin right off give it a spin.
I almost never encounter a fan with good lubrication on the sleeve bearing(s), whether it's a PC fan, a personal fan, or a window/box fan. But I clean out the factory garbage oil where possible and put in Shell ROTELLA diesel truck motor oil, SAE 10W-40. It is a little heavier than optimum for a good bearing, but it revives bearings that have been squealing and/or seized up. It has the special additives which make the oil flow TOWARDS heat instead of away from heat. Fans that were thrown out many years ago because they were seized up are still running now. I learned about ROTELLA decades ago, when it was the specified oil for the severe conditions inside the Wankel engine of my Suzuki RE-5 motorcycle. _Man, I miss that bike!_
@@YodaWhat There you have it.
I love those isopropanol med wipes, great to disinfect your keyboard and cheap as at the dollar store.
I too would love to find a processor like this to upgrade what I currently have inside my PC :)
"Dumpster diving"... the processor of the PC I use now is an i5-3570. :)
What has happened to the 300k bucks oscilloscope you found in the old dumpster room , gosh that was long ago.
I think I saw it on Ebay for 300 canadian rubels
I think it was a April fools video.
worth mentioning that if you only have 1 memory chip, or you mix-and-match different sizes/speeds for memory, you can cripple your system's performance more than the extra memory helps because you can't get the benefit that comes from dual-channel memory.
Even half-crippled RAM is still a thousand times faster than SWAPFILE thrashing.
Pay 10s of thousands dollars for oscilloscopes, use a cheap ass pc worth 300$, wah wah wah
I also have HP ProDesk 400 (Newer and bigger one tho, G5 or something) but cheap ass boss had bought base model with 8GG RAM and no GPU, it was lagging hard on Proteus and CAD software so upgraded to 16GB and passive GT1030 as well.
Btw. 13:35 that's very likely copper but plated
❤️ business desktops, super cute and quiet and remind me of Amigas and Acorns! I like to add an old school keyboard and mouse and emulate an Atari ST 😀👍
12:00 - You can read about "binning" on the Internet to find out how different product skews of silicon is actually being made. It's a mix of everything basically.
I don't think he's unaware of the concept of binning, but asking whether the i5 is actually a separate chip from the i7 or if it is the same chip that came out lower in the binning process.
non identical ram modules may limit performance as the non dual channelled bit will work single channel.
they are the same die, they laser cut the tracks to cache/hyperthreading and set the clock speed with ucode/CPUID bits telling the BIOS what it's supposed to run at. they also bin all the chips, the highest bin is xeon, then i7/i5/some i3, other i3/pentium/celeron are another line with different silicon wafers.
LBRY is not usable for me currently. The video stutters every 5 seconds or so
Same
I ran the passmark benchmark on my laptop's i7 4710HQ and got basically the same results; a score of 8947. A rather interesting result as the 4710HQ is only rated for 2.5ghz(3.5ghz turbo) and 47 watts TDP.
I need to come and visit your dumpster sometime.
I still run an i7-4770 (non-k like this one) in my VR gaming rig. Has been a great cpu for the last few years!
TBH the 4Gig to 12Gig ram upgrade will probably have done more for your desktop than the CPU, unless you only ever had one app open at a time.
I don't know anything about these kiddy gaming pcs there below me I stopped caring about processors ... But PewDiePie I know all about his holidays... wtf ?
Dave, in no way am I affiliated but have you tried using Akasa TIM clean. It is a Citrus based cleaner. I have been using it for many years. Fantastic stuff
Yes, this CPU is affected by the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities. The recent BIOS patch is likely released to include some workarounds for the exploits. The patches in the BIOS update is also likely part of the slower PassMark score of your machine vs. the average score submitted online.
Technically speaking, all Intel chips that support out-of-order execution are affected in some way by the vulnerabilities. This means they go back as far as the Pentium Pro from the mid-1990's.
These are Haswell CPUs and as such are defnitely affected by the spectre/meltdown/zombieload etc. bugs. Depending on what you're doing with it you might not notice much difference between patched and unpatched though. I understand that the peak performance of high end NVMe drives is what's affected the most. On my 4790k machine (overclocked to 4.8ghz), there is a small difference with frame time consistency in high refresh rate games too.
You can tweak memory speed. Using xmp profile or just make the memory clock run faster. Quick and easy bios tweak.
Correct, Intel fuses off or disables portions of the die/certain functionality (L3 cache, HT, etc.) based on yield. And yes the latest BIOS updates after Meltdown/Spectre were revealed will impact performance up to 30% in some cases (SSD and storage performance is impacted the most), with the average being 5-15%.
a lot of these chips benefit from delidding as the thermal compound inside the chip dries up. you can test if its thermal throttling in hwinfo64.
I guess I am OLD... I still LIKE those big old desktop computers for use in the office instead of the Small Form Factor (SFF) units.
With those big old clunkers, it's still VERY easy even today to 'upgrade' them with a new MoBo, CPU, RAM (and sometimes PSU too).
The SFF units often have a very 'non-standard' MoBo meaning you're kinda STUCK with it unless you change the case too.
Same reason I use the big boxes. Even have some repurposed old HP Vectra desktops (horizontal type) that I've stuck new mobos and PSUs in. I use a repurposed Imation SuperDisk in the floppy slot, just in case I have a floppy or two to read.
You found a recent bios update because of specter and meltdown vulnerability.... Windows does have patches too but they are not worth keeping since they really slow down i/o operations and risks are very low for our home computers. Main pc still has a 4790 which is a refresh of your 4770, it is still a worthwhile cpu especially if you have an high motherboard with nvme support and overclocked ram (mine is running 2x8gb dual channel at 2133mhz).
Edit2: it is still very capable for modern gaming too but you really need to run it in dual channel memory configuration
I run a 4790k cpu in my main machine. It's old now but still runs great.
cache pronounced cash. Good video.
4 threads versus 8 threads, quite an upgrade
The 4570 and the 4770 were the same die.
The 4590k and the 4790k were a new die some 6 months later.
Should've kept the old bios version. The new security patches are the reason it's much slower than the recorded numbers.
Don't forget windows 10 software patches
@@MasterControl90original That too. The whole debacle is a **it show. If you get someone to run your software you're already in anyway. I can understand the concern with js and flash etc but compiled code running on the host os?
what did you do with that old radeon GPU and the i5? I'll take it. What's the postage from australia to the US?
Bios is updated, not for compatibility, but Meltdown and Specre mitigation. So, you only made your machine slower by that update. Also...both CPUs are the same generations and family...so no update needed before swap.
Still, great little upgrade. 😉
Dave changes his CPU, fascinating stuff....
hahaha your live commenting of the test... it is just like beeing connected to your first thoughts
BIOS Updates can often cause more problems than they're worth. I tend to leave them alone for now.
Yes, that bug that you said about (Spectre?) had to be patched and it reduces performance.
Also BIOS updates can negatively affect CPU temperatures and fan control curves, which happened with my HP laptop.
i think the biggest thing you didnt mention is that your previous CPU had 4 cores and 4 threads while the new one has 4 cores and 8 threads (hyperthreading). thats a substantial upgrade. the single core score might not be as good but the multi core benchmark would be better. edit: spoke too soon, you mentioned it
There is a dumpster like that near me, it's called PC World except I'm not sure they like you walking out with stuff.
"Where in the world... _PC World_ "
Intel would insert wait states into the microcode for 3rd generation i5 & i3 processors, but not the i7 cores. I'm not sure if they still did that with the 4th Gen cores, but it does seem likely. It allows Intel to use a single RISC core in all of their CPU's.
The BIOS you installed contains microcode for the CPU to fix that issue, that's why there is an update after 5 years. The dies of those CPUs are the same, but they get rated after stress tests in the factory. So maybe parts of the cache failed, or the CPU is not stable at 4.6GHz, or running 8 threads went wrong, etc. AMD is so successful with their Ryzen CPUs beause they went a different way: creating lots of small chiplets and bonding the good ones together.
I have an almost exact model of HP in my lab, I use it as my firewall. Installed PFSense on it. Been running strong for 4yrs now.
Have a similar one and dropped my old 4790k into it. Runs a gameserver now. Even with just the pitty 3 phase, without overclocking it runs fine since almost a year.
please correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding it is just a binning process just depends on the Silicon quality
For most of the time yes. You can see it best with AMDs chiplet design.
There was definitely a "binning process" involved with this PC...