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You have better gaming performance with considerably less watt usage yet you call AMD is in need to cut prices because of what ? Rendering and unzipping ? If something those 2 CPUs exchanging blows left and right with 7600x being a clear winner in majority of games you showed
Finally AMD is getting it's ASS handed to them not just by performance, power draw, and Temps but also by price. Oh yeah and when AMD releases the V3D cache ryzen CPUS , we'll intel will be ready for that launch too, with a 16 all P-core CPU called the 13900KS with no E-cores that will smash all of AMD's V3D cache line up. Well AMD fanboys it looks like the party is over, Intel is back
@@lldjslim did you watch the video? Are you a gamer? If you look at the graphs, 7600X wins in gaming average fps, equals Intel in 1% lows, uses less watts while doing so, and 13600K is a dead platform with no upgrade path for 14th gen, whereas AM5 has at least until 2025 and may go until 2027 similar to AM4
This is exactly the video I was hoping for after the original 7600X video. Thanks Steve 😁, now I can truly settle on the 7600x, when the prices drop a bit. Motherboard costs are ludicrous right now for what I need included and DDR5 5600/6000 is super expensive still.
People are saying it's hard work but it would be my dream job lol. It's not hard at all if you love it and can listen to stuff or even watch stuff while doing it, especially for data nerds
Golden might be too far, AMD is obviously taking the piss when it comes to $, with only the 7950X really making sense, and Intel is taking the piss when it comes to power, trying to reenact the ending of Terminator 2.
@@peopleundercover7462I think kits with that xmp just started rolling out a couple years ago and they were insanely expensive($175 for a 16gb gskill kit released in August 2020). Of course I'm sure there's plenty of lucky b-die kits predating that. Not totally irrelevant just a little unlikely
@@ZondaRbg If you want to compare the exact kits used in this review, the ddr4 is currently $5 more than the ddr5. I was being favorable to ddr4 and comparing the cheapest 3600 c14 which is a team group non-rgb for $40 less
Just want to say that in addition to the stellar benchmarks, your b-roll shots are consistently interesting. Thanks for all the hard work and hope you can get some rest now that some of the heaviest periods are done.
Most of the youtubers get the chip from Intel before launch date but they're not able to show benchmarks until launch date or when intel let them do it.
What I find fascinating is you have a PC generation jump that basically requires higher power consumption across the board - about to collide with the biggest energy crunch in the western world because of pipeline drama etc... As winter rolls into the EU and you start seeing these energy bills rise even more - I think the appetite for power hungry PCs is going to drop like a stone. It is going to be really interesting to see how this generation plays out because I would guess it will not be great. I hope I am wrong.
Will only make undervolting more popular. Ppl will fall off the bleeding edge diminishing returns of even the factory boost settings. Losing a few fps you will not notice on decent resolutions to save hundreds of watts is a no brainer. Even the cooling improvements will benefit with these hot chips.
@@alvar891 how do you "save hundreds of watts" by "losing a few fps". You want to go from 100W on gpu to 0? That will make you lose more than "a few fps"
@@Meowkowhy Meant the total power draw. Undervolting the gpu also. Some of the high end cpus like the 13900k peaked over 350watts and the rtx 4090 also goes well over 400w. Can see both of those reducing a few hundred watts. Out of the box even the 13600k seems to have no limits sucking up double of what could be tuned off.
As someone who's currently planning a small form factor build, I very much agree. How they perform at a "sweet spot" amount of power will be the most important thing.
Yeah it would be great to see at an equal power of either 65 or 125w how the cpus all perform, to see how efficient each architecture is. Sucks that it seems both AMD and Intel have pushed their cpus so far this gen for almost no extra gain.
@@fajaradi1223 based on? B650s have typically the same or just a few stages less in the vrm. You could run 500w cpu on the x670 boards and not need any cooling in fact debour removed the heatsinks on his vrm and was running a overclocked x7950. The heatsinks on amd vrm is just a gimik because they are so overbuilt but the same can not be done with z790 boards.
Also they better keep the same testing in 2 years when we drop in a cpu and intell has to buy a new mobo and ram. It's dumb to buy into a dead platform unless you already ready have a intell system. Me waiting for the 7800x3d to just wipe the floor with the 13900k.
@@mddunlap03 Just curious tho. Last year, we've seen Steve butchering numerous of bad board on his round up review. Wonder if it'll be ever happened again.
One thing I wish to mention about your cost analysis, the cooler is an important part of that graph given the very wide range of power draw. The 5800X3D can get away a cheaper cooler than AMD 7000 CPUs can and certainly much cheaper than anything intel 13.
Very hard to factor this in, but important nonetheless, after a quick look in newegg I'd say that the difference to a 360 AIO to a 240 is about 50 dollars. And then there are the cases that are able to fit these coolers and pump this hot air out... this is getting out of hand!
When you have thermal headroom, what’s the point in not using it? It’s not like intel 13th gen is burning you lmao? It’s just slightly hotter. You all care way too much about slight thermal increases.
@@qwertyouriop2 if you are buying the 13600k vs the 13900k or 7950x, you obviously care about money, so if a much cheaper cooler performs more than 93% multicore and same single core v/s a 360mm aio, then i think thats a win! also, i think intel and amd saying their cpus dont degrade under 100c and 95c is only for the warranty of the cpu. the best case scenario for them is if your cpu fails after 1day and 3years, so i dont care about that figure, i would like to run it as cool as possible!
@@katech6020 I'm not planning on upgrading this generation, but I was curious how much they've improved. 13600k seems like on avg. 43% faster for gaming, which isn't bad. Prob wait until next generation (14th gen).
@@mparagames that would mean no improvement from the 12400. Wccftech leaked the specs of almost all Raptor Lake SKUs at the beginning of September. 13400 is 6P+4E cores, 20MB cache, DDR5-4800 support, 4.6GHz max. Just like a 12600K but with 300MHz less. Then it showed up on the PassMark database, with performance very close to the 12600K. The rumor is these will be rebranded Alder Lakes, and not real Raptor Lakes. Memory support is a clue. All others support DDR5-5600.
Will we be seeing a “cooler scaling” video this generation Steve? I see many references to platform costs, but this seems to presume one will buy a big AIO. If RPL is throttling on those, what will it do on affordable air coolers?
Exactly, many cases do not have the space for a 280 or 360 AIO. Other folks don't have the budget to buy one of these things just to get stock performance.
on my GF's pc we put a NHD-15s on her 12700f(nonK). With power limits removed etc it holds 4.5 on all the P-cores and stays in the low 80s with a stress test. Just like in the review he had to back it down to 4.7 to get sane temps. So ppl can either save a bunch of $ with nonK chips B series boards and air cooling OR double their costs with the K&Z tax plus 360aio bare minimum to ride the razor's edge while STILL pushing 100c.
Because it's unneeded, atleast for this i5 cpu. There are 3 scenarios, first is when you buy this for gaming only, which makes cooler irrelevant since in gaming the cpu would barely do anything work, and the i5 is still the best value like in this video. The other 2 scenarios are when you buy this for game + work or just work, in those cases you will need a better cooler for the i5 compare to 7600x or 5800x3D, but in return you get massive performance gain in productivity, which will far offset that cooler price, and still makes the i5 much better option. So in all 3 scenarios the i5 is always the winner, hence adding a cooler scaling is completely unnecessary.
The results here are really confusing. I’m using a $50 ID cooling frostflow 240mm rad in an 11L itx case and with my 13600k hitting 200 watts in Cinebench r23 (all power limits removed on MSI Z690i Unify) I peaked at 81C on the CPU package temp. No idea why they are hitting 100C
Not surprised that a CPU with 14 cores and 20 threads beat out a 6c/12t CPU. You are correct that AMD needs to cut the price of this part, as it is not in the same category, lacking the 8 E cores. This puts it more against the 7700X or 7900X for productivity, but at a much cheaper price. Intel have this market covered unless AMD make big changes.
@@afriendofafriend5766 That is true, but there a few things to consider here: 1/ life of the platform. AM5 is a new platform and AMD has hinted at similar support of AM5 as they gave AM4, so to future-proof, AM5 is the go. If however you are building a game rig with price/performance as your No 1, then the Raptor Lake chips make sense, as the socket is as mature as its going to get. The upcoming 13400K could end up being the sweet spot for gamers. But this is the last line that will use the LGA1700 socket, so this platform is a dead end going forward. (Why does Intel keeep doing this???) 2/ value This is where the 13th gen parts make sense, with cheaper boards available from 12 th gen also, plus the choice of DDR4 or DDR5 setups. At the moment AM5 boards are expensive, with B650 starting at A$320 and X670 starting at A$540 just for the motherboard. In time they will come down, but at this stage they are premium prices. And all AM5 Mb's require DDR5. The performance of the 13th gen parts in gaming is very strong, it will probably take the R7XXX 3D chips to surpass them in gaming. We'll have to see.
@@TheKelz Only in 1080p my guy, only in 1080p, all while using the best components. So your CPU won't be outdated anytime soon if you are playing 1440p or above.
Thx for adding Intel 10th gen as well in the benchmarks.. As it's shows to me that I'm still very much GPU limited with my Intel i7 10700K, 32GB DDR4 3600, RTX 3080 10GB system playing at 3840x1600 (160Hz) resolution.. So no need to upgrade the CPU, MB and RAM, probably not even when I upgrade the GPU fist again.. Probably gonna wait with that until next gen of GPU's as well, Nvidia 50-series or something..
While the 5800X3D is amazing and will probably be picking one up myself in a few months... if you look at it from a productivity perspective the 13600k outclasses it substantially while also keeping the gaming performance pretty close and the total platform cost similar. If you are only gaming and already have a motherboard/ram to use with it then the 5800X3D can't really be beaten, but if you have productivity needs and game on the side then the intel part is the clear choice.
If I look at the charts it's better to buy an i7-13700k or i9 13900k tbh, especially if you want to make the best of DDR4 RAM. I want to wait for the Zen 4 7000 X3D series but you are required to have DDR5 and the new gen MoBo..
@@emregocmen9562 Well if you want the absolute best productivity performance than yeah obviously it’s better to go with the higher end parts. But the 13600k has the best price to performance which is why I was comparing it to the 5800X3D, which also has very good P2P but mostly for gaming and not productivity.
Holy Shit the 5800X3D is on par with the 13600k @ DDR5 6400 in the 12 Game average. That's incredibly impressive and means that if you're already on AM4 getting a 5800X3D is the way to go.
From business perspective, increasing the price when demand went skyhigh was the correct choice, now the demand has died down, so prices must come down too
@@notenjoying666 it's $299 at Microcenter and $329 at new egg. But nice try also it's 6C12T+8eC (aka 14C20T)which is massive in productivity workloads, beating R5 7600K by 50% margin in some workloads which scale proportionally with cores. AMD's offer is absolutely EMBARASSING. It wasn't selling even without competition.
I feel the price of the CPU itself is fair. It's honestly just those damn motherboards. Otherwise, in most gaming scenarios you're still gonna be GPU bottlenecked. With the am5 platform having better longevity and efficiency, I still feel it a compelling option. We'll know for certain how compelling it is when zen 4 x3D comes out 😈
Its not fair at all, just like zen 1 and 2 era, one company is offering more cores for less money and that being intel here not only that but more availability and much cheaper platform as a whole, more flexibility (ddr4 & 5) thunderbolt support, etc. Its just a no brainer for any content creator to pick this cpu. And gamers too. Not only that the thread director in windows 11 saw a big improvement with e cores utilisation.
@@afriendofafriend5766 they do matter for gaming its just they're not as fast as the P cores, but in reality they are stronger than the 7700k cores, its like having a 7600x and a 7700k 8 cores cpu working together that's what the 13600k is. of course you want to game on your 7600x. again they're offering MORE CORES for the same price as amd, whether its 13600K or the 13700k. never forget that the non K skus are gonna arrive soon with the sub 300$ 13400f and sub 150$ 13100f, which will render the whole amd lineup useless consumer wise.
Finally AMD is getting it's ASS handed to them not just by performance, power draw, and Temps but also by price. Oh yeah and when AMD releases the V3D cache ryzen CPUS , we'll intel will be ready for that launch too, with a 16 all P-core CPU called the 13900KS with no E-cores that will smash all of AMD's V3D cache line up. Well AMD fanboys it looks like the party is over, Intel is back and it's time to put the crown on the new budget king
I see little to none reason for a regular AM4 owner move to AM5, results of 5800x3d are still solid in terms of gaming performance. I guess I would swap after 1-2 years of current console generation.
Honestly. AM5 Motherboard prices are a bigger issue than the CPU prices at the moment. Both need to come down, but MB prices in particular - there are no low or mid range boards right now for B or X series chipsets. It's actually more of a deterrent to AM5 adoption than DD5. AMD and their board partners HAD to have seen this coming and were either banking on people being desperate for the new product and not simply saying no to these jacked up prices. Be it greed or just incompetence they're handing sales to Intel who are offering that can't compete on power efficiency, and is all but garuanteed to be a dead socket with no upgrade path.
What I'm curious to see the most is how Raptor Lake fares in terms of price to performance with the most reasonably priced DDR4 memory, cheapest motherboard and an air cooler. You'd have to power limit the CPUs for the air cooler to be able to handle them of course, but how much performance would you end up losing?
@@Daeyae They're better in terms of price to performance as well as being overall more reliable with fewer points of failure. But strictly In terms of cooling performance they hit a lower ceiling compared to AIOs. I'd take an air cooler every time over 240 AIOs, but even top air coolers like the Noctua NH-D15 can't compete with 360 AIOs. They're a lot more expensive though and you need big cases to fit them, which is why I want to see how viable air coolers are for the latest CPUs, it would be ridiculous if 360 AIOs were suddenly a minimum requirement.
@@Daeyae you clearly got some tiny super cheap AIO to test with, AIOs dont even underperform vs custom loops, ppl just like the look of custom loops but they dont offer much performance upgrade, also more points for failure than any AIO.
The 5800x3d looking pretty when it got lowered to $360 prior to the zen 4. Then the zen 4 comes out and reviews come in and they found out how good the 5800x3d really was and it's price goes back up and it's still battles next gen Intel good.
@@donkey7921 The only 3d chip wasn't meant for productivity though... It was in the gaming tier with the added benefit of performing well in regards to productivity. You are out of your mind. LOL
@@PowellCat745 If Zen 4 3D ends up only reflecting in games like the 5800X3D does and doesn't offer overclocking support this time, idk if Intel will feel compelled to lower prices (at least not that much). Even then I'd rather see larger gains in performance at 1440p and higher.
Yeah, I think it's clear that AMD has to somehow throw more cores at their lower end CPU SKUs in order to keep up with Intel in productivity workloads and/or bring down the price of the existing lower end Ryzen CPUs. That being said, Intel also has to find a way of getting this sort of performance while being way more power efficient, especially for mobile CPUs... And that's why I'm more curious than ever to see what Intel 4 will do for 14th gen Meteor Lake CPUs, as well as what the Ryzen 8000 series lineup will look like... I feel both could mark a major shift from what we are seeing today...
Here in India, the difference in price is $100!! So yes 7600x is much more cheaper than 13600k here but 7600x requires a full system upgrade and AM5 platform is quite expensive. One thing to consider is that AM5 will support atleast 1 more generation so it's much more future proof too. For only gaming, 7600x is the way to go as it performs much better or at par with 13600k but for productivity 13600k absolutely wrecks 7600x so it all depends on your preference. Personally, 7600x would make more sense since it will allow for a future proof upgrade path however the prices of AM5 motherboards really need to drop down as I think 7600x is fairly priced but the platform upgrade is holding back majority of users.
Its in seasons like this that I wish I lived in America, I keep seeing reviews saying ohh its 300$... 400$ but here in Europe for some freaking reason the 300$ is closer to 400€ and the 400$ is over 500€ not to mention prices of a decent motherboard that is almost as expensive as the CPU itself if not more. So CPU+MB+RAM combo is already over 1.2k, like WTF happened!?.... You used to be able to build brand new entire systems with that money and the currency value is almost identical! Soon enough people will be switching to consoles.
I would like to see tests with a normal air cooler that alot of people would purchase. 360 AIO water coolers isnt realistic and massive air coolers isnt realistic either for alot of people. both the 7600x and the 13600k would be more interesting with this kind of limitation.
@@TheNubaHS They're cheaper but still they're used mostly by more experienced users. Average Joe wants something as little complicated as he can get. You would be suprised how many computers with something like Core i7 I've repaired with basic stock coolers, because they're more convienient and easier to install.
@@foxx9555 average joe will always pick the AIO over the noctua's gigantic turtle of doom. unless you mean the standard intel cooler but does it even comes with the 13600k?
I'm running the 13600k with a 240 AIO and a contact frame. In gaming doesn't really go above 70° If I process a video it gets to 99° Without the contact frame it got to 100° and a throttle
360 AIOs cost less than higher end cooler boxes, its better cooling for less money (but shorter lifespan bc fans can be replaced for cheap and solid radiators can live 100s of years tho you always come up against higher RAM stick heights.) Bought a run of the mill 360 AIO and I can leave 100% stress test on all cores for 10 minutes and the highest core temperature doesnt pass 82c so you have a lot of headroom.
I completely agree with this. Even the 12600K made the AMD value prospect lower; I have kept watching a price correction for months. AMD right now is in a very bizarre position.
Ive been saying this for a long time that if AMD didnt raise core counts or seriously drop prices Intel would destroy them and here we are. Its obvious as hell they were cause off gaurd with Alder Lake and believed their own hype and the fanboys that Intel, and absolute tech monolith that has been around for yeaes, was done. Zen 4 is literally just a 12th gen competitor. Theyve basically resorted to pretending E cores are pointless and claiming all their cores are P cores like that makes a difference that they’re getting rolled at half their skews by an i5 in multithreading. If AMD really wanted to compete they woulve stopped selling two R9’s and sold the 7700X as the 7600X. Maybe even drop none x skews for each at $50 less dollars and sold the 7600X as a 7500X for $200. They still wouldve lost in total price to performance but atleast their minshare could carry them And the could put the 7950X against the 13900K at the same price and that wouldve actually probably been a win
AMD really should consider releasing a DDR4 board for AM5. I don't think a couple months late is too late and I'm sure they could actually do it. It's not a DDR4 vs DDR5, it's 'I have this memory' vs buying brand new kits. Couple things though. B650 board are available and cheapest is $180, with Asus full size at $200. So I don't think $290 is completely accurate anymore. Although I know it's impossible to test everything, it would be curious to see the credibility of some claims people are making about disabling CCDs and E-Cores performance wise, even if it's a small dataset. I did make it to the end of the video, thanks.
At 16:10, in the cost-per-frame analysis, how come the DDR5-6400 memory used with the i5 is only $200, while the DDR5-6000 memory used with the 7600x is $280? Usually, faster memory is more expensive. Also, why don't you make a point of testing both Intel and AMD parts with the same DDR5 memory, like you did with DDR4?
In the chart the 13600K with DDR5 is $330 + $280 + $180 and for the 7600x it's $300 + $280 +$290. I'm pretty sure the the second number is for the ram cost, so $280 for both (could be argued the 7600x DDR5-6000 ram should be slightly cheaper than the 13500k DDR-6400, but I'm not sure how much of a cost difference there currently is between those two). The big price difference though is the $180 vs $290 for the motherboard and I think that largely comes down to being able to use Z690 and B660 motherboards for Raptor like vs only the brand new X670 for Zen 4.
@@arowden You're right, I managed to confuse the numbers. The subheading of the slide does actually state it's CPU+RAM+Motherboard. Thanks! So it really is the mobo costs that makes up the bulk of the cost difference.
In regards to 16:45, a cost analysis with more sweet spot DDR4 3600Mhz CL16 memory would be super useful since if it's a $100 cheaper set of ram (I think most 32GB kits with those speeds are like $120-130) and decreases performance by only a 1-3% I feel like it would drastically shift the graph around. Maybe a video purely about the best bang for your buck cpu out of Ryzen 3000/500/7000 and Intel 12/13 gen in a bunch of different use cases? Either way great video!
I agree some tests including 3600 CL16 would be great. Even 3200. I see a lot of people claiming DDR5 is pretty much a scam, DDR4 will get you better performance on average and that DDR5 costs double of DDR4. Which I just dont get. Like, if youve got the DDR4 already, great. But if you dont, thats still money you have to pay, and DDR5 really isnt expensive on the level people make it out to be.
@@zeropride1133 The cheaper DDR4 3600 CL16 ram would be AMD 3000/5000 systems, since the way more expensive ram doesn't offer that much of a performance lift
7800x3d will be an epic crushing cpu upgrade for the 7600X and 7700X owners like me. I am looking to the future , not current benchmarks. 14th gen intel will need new mobo, so I didn't get that for my system this month, I got am5 so I can drop in new cpu in future. 7700x does better in games, and why i wanted it and bought it.
@@timothyandrewnielsen i mean, the 7700x just came out, Im on 5 year old hardware and didnt want to buy intel. I want a new pc for my b day this saturday and throught this winter/christmas to play while its cold and snowing, plus I want to be able to play all my games without cpu bottleneck and to play new games coming out like ill, the day before, calypso protocol, etc, with a good CPU and it only makes sense to get 7700x cause i can upgrade in a year or two, NOT MONTHS, cause the 7700x will be fine at least a year or two, then upgrade, while intel will need need mobo and I didnt want to have to do all that. futureproof. I will get 7800x3d in a few years, not months. but it is and option in the future, but intel owners will be stuck on 13 gen boards when 14th gen releases but amd wont. It's why i went with amd this time after 15 years with intel.
The CPU isn't cost that much. The real cost is the platform ( mobo + ram ). The only good build this time is 13400f + b660 + ddr4 (last gen cuz this gen are damn expensive).
@@rdmz135 The different between alder and raptor is e core, cache and clock speed. It's not a new uArch like meteor lake supposed to be. And what would you do with a powerful CPU? Playing game at 1080p 240fps+?
@@halbrakt3457 what lol. you said you had never seen such a big difference between cpus, but the difference last gen was even bigger. Has nothing to do with wanting to watch old cpus or upgrading lol
Awesome job intel. I have to say, the 13600k impresses me a heck of a lot more than the 13900k. The 13900k may be able to do much better overall, but the value proposition on the 13600k is absurdly good. Was not expecting this level of a generational improvement (aside from power and thermals.). And apparently neither was AMD.
@@tringuyen7519 pretty sure if you care about the what, 50 watt increase at best, you really just have AMD up your ass. Just admit it, Intel won the first round. Now let’s see if AMD can hit back with a v3D model and a price cut.
@@tringuyen7519 You're not wrong. Though I imagine that much like the others in the series, it's pushed way past the peak of its efficiency curve by default. This is also seen in the default behavior of the Ryzen 7k series. (and those peak even earlier.) I'm in support of eco modes and such. I've downclocked/undervolted my existing CPU, and lowered the power limit on my RTX 3070, because I have headroom to suffer a minimal perf. loss while decently reducing my power use. Unfortunately, it's right that a CPU that is 10% faster, but consumes 50% more power sells better than one that's 10% slower, but uses 50% less power. (at least when not on mobile devices) I'd much prefer the latter.
Could you do a comparison of the 13600k and 7600X using an "okay" air cooler (such as the Coolermaster Hyper 212)? I understand using the best cooling possible for evaluating the maximum performance potential of a new CPU. However, I don't think the users who typically buy this sort of CPU will be pairing it with an expensive 360mm radiator cooling solution.
I agree, plus I try to keep my bills to the minimum especially with almost 100watts more being used to get a little more performance. I still prefer AMD in those terms. Im a penny pincher lol
The result would still be the same, in gaming both can use the same cooler since cpus don't do much in gaming, an okay cooler would works fine, so the value result don't need to factor in cooler. In productivity yes you will need a better cooler for the i5 compare to the 7600x, but in return you get so much more performance uplift, making the cooler price difference irrelevant and the i5 would still be a much better choice in that case.
Intel's e-cores are a blessing for rendering and productivity, where they can be used to great extent. For gaming they're not as valuable, but can be used for other background things, especially because there are only 6 performance cores for the I5-13600K, which can then be focused for gaming.
yeah lots of ifs with ecores, i mean by the time games uses ecores efficiently well prob have gen 14 and matured (and cheap) am5 anyways.. so yeah, at least low loads are better now esp on 13100 and 13400
Yeah but the 13900k shouldn’t have 16 ecores and only 8 p cores smh. I don’t care about goddamn ecores man I want all my cpu cores to be strong and not held back by weaker cores. Idk why they can’t make the 13900k have 12 performance cores and 12 ecores. Only having 8 performance cores is not good compared to a 7900x with 12 performance cores. Those ecores don’t make up for that because they’re useless in gaming.
Crazy to see how AMD went from dominating MT by a huge margin to being matched in highend and being beat below that. But with Meteor lake Intel really needs to improve power draw for heavy MT tasks. Also good to see that both companies are very competetive overall, that should give us better prices and products.
@@attilad.8142 It won’t be that expensive. Just look at the 5800x 3D bro. That shit is even beating the 13700k and 7900x in a lot of shit and it’s not expensive at all. When the 7800x 3D comes out it’ll be 400 tops. The 7900x 3D will probably be 600-650. It’s around the same price range as Current zen 4 just with a 20-40 percent performance increase so the cost isn’t that bad.
@@darkhaven9119 if the pricing is good those cpus will be the obvious choice, but I dont think a company that focuses on profits will give away a premium product for cheap when there is no equal competitor.
Thank you for keeping the 10700k on the charts. Alot of us still running that chip or the nearly identical 9900k and it looks like it's getting close to time to upgrade...maybe one more generation 😂
Please make some real-life scenario testing using tower AIR cooling. How many people are using expensive 360 AIO, especially with lower-tier CPUs? We want to see benchmarks for both RaptorLake and ZEN 4 with some common cooling.
Waiting for the x3D to drop below 400 :p, but maybe i hold on till the 7600x3d comes out and sell my PC as a whole and built something new, fingers crossed that ram&motherboard prices have gone down by then
Yep depending on where you are value changes, looking at delivery in my area 13600k 466,98€ and 7600x 359,90€. The 5800x3d would be 465,41€ but at no additional cost of Motherboard and Ram since i'm already on B550. It's a no brainer .
Motherboard Manufacturers decimated AMD's CPU launch, that is the single biggest reason I will not make the switch right now. I refuse to raked over the pricing coals by those ludicrous Motherboard prices!!
Intel did the job! Finally more competitive in price-performance. But thanks to agressive AMD campaings and price-performance. Good Job with the video as always! 🤟
Its simply AM5 platform change that's crippling them. But if you have (like me) moved to Zen4 don't panic. Because when those 3d versions come out you will have some fun.
A 7900x3D and 7800x3D isn't going to be cheap though. And if it's only the fastest in gaming 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 like the 5800x3D is at 1080p and not much better for productivity, then idk. I can easily see a 7900x3D launching at $699, $800 for a 7950x3D, and $500 for 7800x3D.
@@chrisjr6214 If you look at the numbers in the 13600K review the 5800X3D is about 25~30% faster than all the other Ryzen 5000 parts over the 12 game average. Even at 1440P. If HWUB did a new "41 game benchmark" with the 5800X and 5800X3D on a RTX 4090 I am sure the 5800X3D would increase its lead. Many games in the old video were already GPU limited at 1080P with the 3090Ti.
@@chrisjr6214 it depends on how much inflation comes down by then. We are going into winter with insane energy prices. People will be spending less on electronics etc so prices will have to come down. It just depends how far down the manufacturing chain those costs will drop. I supply automotive parts to jaguar land rover and the fight for silicone is still a big problem. To the point they have had to put production on hold. But I still think even if they are as high as you said. People will still buy them if they are cream of the crop. 4090s sold out instantly with a price tag of £1700!.
If it's standard 6000 and 6400 DDR5 then that's like 240+€ and 6400 is like 380+€ in Slovakia with similar average performance while power consumption is not taken into account which it should be these days.
Steve: "Intel lists and MSRP of XYZ but that's the per 1000 unit price" is an oxymoron. MSRP is Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, and Intel doesn't even use that term on their slides. Intel doesn't suggest the retail price at all. They only list gross vendor pricing.
I wish it was mentioned that B650/B650E are available now for as low as $170. Yeah, prices are still high on most boards, but your cost per frame analysis for the full platform is quite flawed as early as today (release day of the video)! Overall, great video as always! Thank you for your hard work to bring us such thorough information and interpretation for these new releases
Not available globally yet. Also I don't think cost per frame is the main reason Steve ended the video recommending the 13600k. It's just that for anyone doing a little productivity, it's just a no brainer in terms of performance. I wouldn't buy any of these just for gaming tbh.would probably wait for cheaper ryzen or even next gen ryzen or intel if I'm fine with what I have. No point spending this much on a gaming CPU unless you're rich. The difference between these and the 5600 is just not meaningful enough.
A non-K i5 in a B motherboard usually ends up taking the value king prize. Probably the 13600F whener we get that. Cheaper everything.. and fast enough.
Not interested, the chip is too hot. Even with a custom look that I usually build, this is just too much power for the performance gains. 7950x is the best CPU on the market now by far for desktop PCs.
Honestly do not focus on those power consumption you see in the reviews. Generally speaking the average user is not running benchmarks to gtaher the maximum performance or frames. The average consumption of those cpus, independently of being amd or intel , is far far lower. and the temps also. I have a 12700k , and it Rarelly goes above 72 degrees, and that is when doing something unusual. in games the temp is on the 60 if the game is actually demanding and it is summer , on most days it overs 50 or so. The power consumption also rarelly ever gets close to 190 w, specially since i game at 2 or 4k resolution, so the graphic card is the one doing the work, and the cpu rarelly goes beyond 60%. Outside of game all my other activities do not push the cpu in any considerable form. the temp right now while writing this is 32 º with slightly above 2% load.
@@Solrac-Siul As someone who does work with rendering, streaming etc. and pays a crapload for electricity every month - that adds up. And I love hardware that has a decent headroom for overclocking in both temps and voltage/power department. No freakin way I would accept hardware that is thermal throttling out of the box with the best off the shelf cooling out there. My 5800X is currently tuned to 65W and I rarely remove that for specific workloads or games. The performance drop is minimal, but the power consumption is very low. I expected way greater efficiency with this generation. Performance crown is nothing when the CPU is constantly trying to roast itself even with a custom watercooling loop.
Was considering going to a 7600X over my 10900 for gaming reasons but I want a cpu upgrade that is better in all aspects, even outside of gaming if I'm upgrading. This 13600k is the kind of lift I'm looking for.
I’ve been team blue all my life, but the 5800X3D was a precursor for what we’re going to get with the 7800X3D. With the rumours of that coming in Q1 (which is also when Noctua’s new DH-15 is supposed to drop) I’m going to have to hold off.
I mean, why would you buy a 7800X3D when Meteor Lake (14th gen next year) w/ large IPC increases is coming? AMD will recapture the gaming title for like 5 months w/ the 7800X3D (lose in everything else) before Meteor Lake comes & will lose it again for nearly 2 years until 8800X3D (early 2025). Zen 5 won't come out until late 2024 & will TRY & compete against 15th gen Arrow Lake (huge IPC increases).
@@OC.TINYYY AMD will recapture the gaming title for like 5 months w/ the 7800X3D (lose in everything else) Yeah, this computer does nothing but gaming. That's the thing most people keep fucking getting tricked by. How the fuck people haven't realized the inherent bias of reviewers overhyping chips that are good at productivity tasks is beyond me. 99% - probably even higher than that, won't use the benefits of what reviewers overhype CPUs for. If I need a car for a race, I'm not going to be opting for a BMW with luxury features, and being able to do everything above average. I'm opting for a McLaren, because all I will be benefiting from is what that McLaren does. I'm also not going to fall victim to analysis paralysis, where I'm constantly thinking of what I'll miss out on if I wait. Because here's the crazy thing: Shit always gets better, while your shit gets worse. I've waited 5.5 years with a 7700K, while building PCs for friends that have 8th gen, and 12th gen, and whatever the best option is in Q1 of 2023 is what I'm getting. And even if I do regret the purchase, it's not like it's set in stone. I can just repurpose or give my buddy my motherboard and CPU to upgrade to whatever else. But that's only if the difference in gaming is sizable enough for me to care. But right now, there's games releasing that I need an upgrade for, and if the 7800X3D is the best option at that time, I'm buying it. I'd wait if my CPU wasn't 4 cores, but it is, and it's awful. The 1% lows in every game I play are horrendous.
That is because these reviews are meant for everyone in the market, not just gamers. Productivity is huge in the age of work for home and almost everyone wanst to create content. I feel it is less of reviewers overhyping and people being unaware and and more of you being an angry small minded GAMER who doesn't realize the world does not revolve around him and his hobby.
it is mind-boggling to me that just 4 years ago, I bought an i7 8700K, which was the flagship Intel CPU at the time, for the same price of this generation's i5 offering. It's a great chip and I'd have no trouble putting it into a system with a high-end GPU, but it's just insane to me that you "only" get an i5 these days for the same money as an i7 four years ago.
I went with a 8400 4yrs ago, and manage to snatch a used 8700 pc, swapped out cpu and resell the pc with an i5, best decision I made, that aside now that you mention it, yeah the price comparison is insanity, but that worked in my favour now that I think about, I realized I saved even more thanks to your comment.
The results are very even and that is the best news for the consumer. From what I see an advantage in amd is that the socket has a life until 2025 and intel does not, I would like Intel to apply the same on its platforms.
Meteor lake is supposed to use socket 1700. Yes, they changed it back to 1700. To compete..... Competition is good. But until they make an official announcement it's not set it stone
I agree that is a huge advantage AMD doesn't get enough credit for. Zen 4 wasn't even the big architecture change. Zen 5 will be which will make it an even bigger leap than Zen 4 was over Zen 3.
@@ryanlemieux3323 Lol Zen 4 still has great IPC gains while Raptor Lake’s Raptor Cove cores and even Meteor Lake’s Redwood Cove cores are going to slightly refined and improved versions of Golden Cove architecture.
Honestly, the only thing I'm worried about the last gen cpus (AMD 7th, Intel 13th) is the longevity. Sure, they promise it's all fine, but every cpu hitting 90c+ constantly must have degradation issues in a few years of use IMHO.
There are settings in BIOS for desired temps if this bothers you.
2 года назад+6
For me looks like 7600x will be the smarter upgrade path to chose. In eu the intel cpus are more expensive and their mobos cost mostly the same price as am5. As I saw the trends on ryzen 5000 series previosly, the am5 cpus and mobos price will keep drop with months after their release. I dont have ddr4 rams so I would go for ddr5. There are already games that has like 20% more performance over ddr4 and I think in future games it will be more likely they will utilize ddr5. and am5 boards having support for future ryzen cpus is a huge bonus for later upgrade while z690/z790 reached their ends.
@@bagman5369 Most people don't change their CPUs frequently, so it's not going to sway most customers. The platform costs do, though, and if the above is true, AMD does have a price advantage elsewhere.
Weird times, Intel offering more cores per CPU for less money. Do you remember how they were milking us with their 4 cores CPUs and improvements of 1-3 % between generation? And now, they can add more cores, they can lower their prices. AMD and their Ryzen hit them hard. But it made that we have more choice and healthy competition. So all good.
why is nobody considering the 11900K anymore? it seems like every reviewer forgot its existence....i know it wasn't the best CPU...but still, some of us who were "stupid" enough to buy it would like to see how it holds up
I think AMD somewhat experimented with Zen4, clearly splitting the products into workload (7900x/7950x) and gaming (7600x/7700x), hoping that there aren't too many consumers who'd want a middle-ground, like the 13600K. The problem in this approach is the pricing advantage Intel has at the moment, and the fact the gaming performance varies from game to game. But I recon the pricing will swing back when Intel is the one with the brand-new platform.
Great review. To me, this portends the death of the 6 core processor. Intel has moved the market forward in core count segmentation and AMD will need to update their entire product lineup with the 8 core being the new midrange baseline.
6 core is only a few percentage off from the gaming performance of the much bigger chips. I don’t think they are dead, but like steve said charging $300 for such a small chip is just dumb
What a reversal. When zen 3 came out vs comet lake, this channel and gamer’s nexus called it a bloodbath. Somebody said call 911. Now with golden/raptor cove + gracemont hybrid cores, intel has swung back hard. Using 10 nm tech! Imagine if raptor lake was ready back in 2017 to succeed sky lake! Nonetheless, what amd has done with zen is impressive and I’m glad to see competition return. I’m looking forward to meteor and arrow lake and zen 5. Full speed ahead !
Tbh even with zen 3 i felt like 10th gen intel was the way better buy unless you were going ryzen 9. There werent actually that far off in performance and10th gen became way, way cheaper. You could get a 10700K for the price of a 5600X and at one point a 10850k was even close in price. Dont forget for a while zen 3 didnt even have much for stock. Zen 3 is the most overrated CPU gen i can remember due to price to performance and AMD’s green was given a pass for virtually raising price over $100 for each skew and pretending it was only a $50 increase. I personally havent seen them as a good investment since Zen 2, but taking the top performance spot for a year and being the alternative choicecompletely let them get away with some real bullshit.
@@Angel7black true I remember when the mighty 5950x used to be sold out and micro center had it priced at $799. Everyone was acting like it was a god tier cpu. And then alder lake and now raptor lake came out at lower price points and laid it to waste. And the price declined. Given the potent performance of the 13600k and 13700k at their competitive pricing, amd will have to drop prices on the 7600x, 7700x, and the 7900x.
Why would AMD need to cut prices? 13th Gen is Intel's last chips on their current socket. There absolutely no reason to buy them, which is the exact opposite of AM5. Buying the 1st phase of AM5, you can update later on the same socket. That's not even factoring in the x3D chips coming out next year in late Q1. AMD has no reason to worry. Really doesn't matter the performance of 13th Gen, pointless to build unless you wanna blow money.
With 1440p gaming becoming more and more common, would you consider adding Cost per Frame graphs for 1440p? I imagine with games becoming (more) GPU bottlenecked at higher resolutions, that could possibly shuffle the results around a bit.
yeah I game at 1440p with a 3080 and a Ryzen 5 3600, I would upgrade the CPU tomorrow if I could find a really good reason but its hard to find one other than just because
I'm planning on upgrading from i7-8700k to am5 but on the current state of amd.... im having second thoughts now. i hope they really do a price cut be it from a motherboard or the cpu itself
It's better to wait for better Motherboard/RAM prices and Zen 4 3D V-Cache, very likely regular Zen 4 CPUs will receive a price reduction by then. Still I'd say AM5 would be a decent investment because it'll have a similar life spam as AM4.
Wait a few months for zen 4 with 3D v cache. It will dominate and is going to be 20-40 percent better then Current zen 4 and will be way better then intel.
Love your videos. I had some ddr4 bdies sitting around, so i handed off my 5800x setup to the wife and built a 13600k setup. With the holiday sales spent under 700, minus the GPU i already have. Cheers!
Ummmm. I don't see an annihilation here? Back and forth in gaming ,which the majority of people buying this tier of processor are going to care about. Also buying the Zen CPU gives you an upgrade path. 13th Gen Intel is on a dead platform so?....
Did you see the productivity results? I'm not saying anyone doing that type of work seriously will by the 13600K. However, having the ability to do some of those jobs and up to 40% performance at less total platform cost is a huge deal for some potential buyers. I agree the longevity of the AM5 socket is a very big feather in AMDs cap right now, but to be honest by the time anyone buying a Raptor Lake CPU will consider it _too slow_ it will be time for a new board anyway. I enjoy the idea of being able to possibly put a Ryzen 9000 CPU in a current 670/650 board, but for a lot of new customers, let's say Intel Loyals, Zen 4 right now does little to sway the over to team Red. AMD needs to drop the Price of the 7600x to $239.99, if they want to seem competitive in more than just gaming at the lower mid-tier level. With the 13400f coming along with now E cores, the 7600x will have much harder competition from a much cheaper part, as that should at least match 12600K performance. IMO of course.
@@davidwooten7212 No one that makes their living code compiling or even general productivity is going to use a 13600k. These are gaming processors. The only workload other than gaming would be streaming,and or Photoshop,and they are just about exactly the same in these. I agree AMD needs to lower the price,but they will do just fine considering the upgrade path. No one likes spending any amount of money on dead end technology.
@@bigjsmashman4958 Your fist comment just echos what I said in my first reply. However, we agree to disagree. I think you are selling a rather large contingent of current Intel owners and possibly some AMD owners on older hardware short. The 13600K presents a very compelling argument and is undoubtedly a better all-around CPU than the 7600x, the test show that to be pretty irrefutable. In gaming they are nearly identical, if platform longevity doesn't matter to some, maybe most on Intel, how is the 7600x a viable option? Don't forget a lot of people spent money on DDR4 based Alder Lake, that old _dead end_ memory spec didn't stop them from buying now did it?
Opting for Intel here is an idiotic view. First, the 5800X3D is a better choice than all of them, if you plan to stay on DDR4 for a while. Second, if you plan on upgrading to DDR5 sys, then the AMD X3D chips are slated to be out in first quarter 23'. So in either case, AMD is the clear choice, and anything to the contrary is just shortsighted and narrow shallow thinking...
With cost for electricity rising, if building a new system, the power consumption cost difference can probably even out after a few years, maybe seeing some minor electricity savings long term. Of course assuming default performance and not under volting to maximize performance for wattage, highly dependent on cost per area. I wonder what under volt performance would look for these two CPUs and if there is more disparity or not between them. Especially for more budget minded builds, taking into account electrical costs might start becoming more relevant when evaluating parts than just upfront costs.
This video is so useful. I come back to it every now and then. Thank you very much! But i don't think the 7600X "gets embarrassed" by the 13600K in productivity workloads, when it comes pretty close to it in Premiere and beating it in Photoshop and After Effects. And video and picture editing is probably the most common productivity workload for a gamer. It could also shift more and more to the AMD side in the future with PCIe 5.0 M.2 SSDs.
You should have made it more about 13600K vs 7700X, because it beats it as well in almost all production benchmarks and the gaming performance is basically the same as 7600x.
But 7600X is the actual competitor price wise? I really dont care if Intel throws more silicon at the problem, AMD should do the same or drop the prices. Hopefully zen5 will have 10 or 12 core CCD design so we get the core count increase across the lineup
I've said it since the 5000 series, Amd is going up slip when they haven't added any cores since Zen 1. I was expecting a core increase at the same price points with the 5000 series and we didn't get it. So now Ryzen 7000 is out and for the whole and I repeat whole life of am4 and now starting into am5 we have the same core counts at more expensive prices then zen1. And no the 12 and 16 don't count because those came with price increases. If Amd right now has a line up like this we would be singing their praises. 7600x 8cores, 7800x 12cores, and the 7900x 16cores and then $255, $375, and $500 respectively they would have destroyed Intel. People need to understand this. I'm not happy with Amd right now. How the hell is Intel beating them with core counts?
Agree. I made a similar comment here... I really don't understand this strategy... this just show how you can do good for a while and in a second you bring down everything. Meh... shame.
@@bwizard1062 there is always an advantage coming from behind, amd wanted to beat intel and succeeded because intel had gotten complacent. Now Amd has become complacent and intel jumped them. Unless amd messes up big time, and realizes they are playing catch up, next gen amd should be equal or better than intel.
@@mitlanderson ecores matter in a lot of instances and when they have main core parody the ecores matter especially on the lower skus that don't need a power plant to run
"Amd is going up slip when they haven't added any cores since Zen 1" I think you mean Zen 2. With Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) they went up to 16 core with the 3950X.
What's incredible is the vast array of CPU/performance/price options available now! Both AMD and Intel are providing some compelling choices! I don't admire anyone who is considering what new CPU to put into a new build...it depends on one's case usage, generally productivity, gaming, or both. It's an exciting time, and thanks for the comprehensive, intelligent and "tell it like it is" reviews Hardware Unboxed!
Got a question, Will this be on the same socket as 12th gen? If so this is the last (probably) CPU gen for it, as 14th gen will likely support a new socket, as per Intel's typical 2 year socket cycle. AMD is coming into AM5 and if it's the same as AM4, then it'll support at least 3-4 generations. Yes AMD is expensive, but it's coming into it's generational socket as the 13th gen is probably the last supported CPU for the 1700 socket. The question people need to ask right now, Do you want power and performance now? Or Do you want multigenerational support (possible to 4 generations), for future upgradability? These are the questions one needs top ask to decide
@@KevinLikesRTS, Really? Last I heard it was at least three generations possibly 4? Still doesn't discount the fact that AMD is coming into the socket as Intel is going out of the socket. But if that is the case I'll just stick to AM4 till i have to upgrade as i still have plenty of room to grow. If that is true then Harvey Dent (The Dark Knight) was right, Die the hero or live long enough to become the villain. if you are right and AMD is now only 2 generations, they just became the villain in my eyes
Personally, if I am only gaming on a budget and no video/3d editing work, I'll go with amd. But if I do editing/3D, it's a no brainer. I'll just upgrade everything after 3-4 years.
@@crazylarryjr yeah. Watch the gamers nexus video on 7000 series. The timeline is max 2025. Everyone is pissed they aren’t doing more than two generations on it.
This is what I love to see, market competition at its fullest. I was a fierce supporter of AMD during the AM4 era as they did so many things right, but it seems to me that for my next build (probably in one or two years' time) I will swap sides.
Why? By the charts amd is still best bang for the money. Ddr5 prices are droping and they will not be a dead socket like intell. Also they are comparing a budget intell board vs x670e flagship boards you can already get sub 200$ am5 boards boards but oddly skewed the numbers and odd they went with 32gb of ram vs the 16gb most gamers will buy to really sell intells dead socket
@@mddunlap03Both Intel and AMD are competitive right now at all levels, and this only favours us, the consumers. I'm not saying at all that Intel is super ahead of AMD currently, and certainly the 7600x is slightly above the 13600K in terms of gaming performance. Price/performance favours Intel though, that's all my comment was about. I'm happy with my 5600x for now anyhow.
Could we see the second coming of one of the greatest CPU's of all time? The 2500K. Def seems that way, I'd be interested in OC numbers on the 13600K and how far you can push it.
The 13600K is slower in games, uses 50% more power and the money situation is helped in Intel by no midrange/low end AM5 boards existing. How is it "the next 2500K" in any way?
Just ordered a 5800X3D, seems to be the only viable option if you don't want to pay the DDR5 tax. 13600K would make sense if I planned for any CPU heavy professional use cases. Since I went all in for the GPU (4090) for machine learning, I will pass on the halo cpu models.
The question is will Intel be able to respond when the x3d chips come out. That plus the easy amd upgrade path for the future makes me think the currently high platform cost might be worth it for gamers.
That depends on how dramatic the improvement is with the 7800X3D is. People won't jump for it if the memory, motheboards, etc... are so damn expensive.
For $300, a processor needs to have more than 6 cores and 12 threads. I'm not sure what AMD was thinking with the 7600x, in 2022 people expect more at that price point. When intel is offering a 14 core, 20 thread processor for just $30 more, the 7600x is pointless.
Umm, no they don't. You can't look at sales data right now and derive anything from it because AMD, Intel and Nvidia ALL projected drops in sales EVEN with launching new products. Try following economic news from these companies. AMD has such a small amount of Zen 4 out along with a small number of supporting B650/E MBs that it's silly to talk about Zen 4. AMD's economic future doesn't depend on TODAY. The best selling Zen 4 CPU right NOW is their most expensive one, the 7950X, and you can't explain that from price. You explain that by, the people who need as much CPU power as possible for their workloads are going to buy as soon as they can, and consequently the best selling 13th gen CPU right now is ALSO the 13900K. Gamers on the other hand, if they're going to buy into Zen 4 are waiting to see the Vcache parts. People on a budget who are going to buy into Zen 4 are waiting for the 7600 or 7700 which WILL get released about Q2 next year. Or, they don't want to buy a GPU and are waiting for Zen 4 APUs, which WILL be good enough for 1080p gaming. This is going to be about the best jump in APU performance AMD has ever had. And AMD APUs have over the last 1.5 - 2 years had at least 3 different SKUs in Amazon's top 10 best selling CPUs. The 3600 dominated the top spot for a long time, but it's pushed down now and the 5600 has moved up on that list. So, lack of MBs, APUs, 65W TDP 7600 and 7700 and Vcache parts coming out will ALL change what's happening with Zen 4 sales. But here's the other thing and why all three of those companies projected drops in revenue. Inflation. I don't know about the AU but in the US inflation is BAD and it's affecting food costs more than most other products and the price of fuel is much higher. These costs eat away at people's spending money. Most households already did upgrades or bought new systems from 2020 - 2022. This came about because computer tech has improved a LOT since 2016 and Ryzen and Intel's reaction to it has caused a big BOOM in sales. That doesn't last forever. Most people don't replace PCs every year or two. Most households use a PC for a good 5 - 10 years. If they game, they'll replace the GPU. If they buy AMD systems, they'll upgrade the CPU with the last gen CPU the MB will take and use that system another 5 years. So there's many AM4 owners that won't upgrade for a good 4 - 6 years from now. These are facts. Reviewers tend to get lost to reality because they have parts in and out of their hands constantly. Yes, there are some people that replace systems every 2 - 3 years. Most households don't. AMD is doing better than Nvidia and Intel right now though because they're the most flexible with their products. In fact in probably about 9 - 12 months Microsoft and Sony will put out something like Pro models for their consoles, based on Zen 4 and RDNA 3. So, AMD isn't going to overproduce desktop CPUs. They're also still making a lot of profit from their server market. Since one line of EPYC CPUs use the same core chiplet as Ryzen, AMD can shift how their CPU cores are used. AMD will see a drop in sales for PC desktop, but they get to leverage their server market and leverage gaming consoles to make up for it, and they get to shift wafers how they see fit. They did that in the past and will keep doing that. I expect to see the current line of CPUs get discounted next year. MAYBE AMD has a temp. discount around the 2022 holiday shopping period.
![Ryzen 5 7600X or Core i5-13600K For New Builds? Is Zen 4 Badly Named? October Q&A [Part 2]](/img/1.gif)
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You have better gaming performance with considerably less watt usage yet you call AMD is in need to cut prices because of what ? Rendering and unzipping ? If something those 2 CPUs exchanging blows left and right with 7600x being a clear winner in majority of games you showed
4.9 -> 5.4 is +4% :)? Oh... 5.1...
Finally AMD is getting it's ASS handed to them not just by performance, power draw, and Temps but also by price.
Oh yeah and when AMD releases the V3D cache ryzen CPUS , we'll intel will be ready for that launch too, with a 16 all P-core CPU called the 13900KS with no E-cores that will smash all of AMD's V3D cache line up.
Well AMD fanboys it looks like the party is over,
Intel is back
You shall factor in the cost of electricity over the lifespan of the products too, as an estimate for the average user.
@@lldjslim did you watch the video? Are you a gamer? If you look at the graphs, 7600X wins in gaming average fps, equals Intel in 1% lows, uses less watts while doing so, and 13600K is a dead platform with no upgrade path for 14th gen, whereas AM5 has at least until 2025 and may go until 2027 similar to AM4
I don't know how I didn't realize how many CPUs you test and how long this actually has to take. Thanks for your hard work.
More coming......Core i3-13400K, Ryzen 8 7800X, Ryzen 3 5300G, etc. 😁
This is exactly the video I was hoping for after the original 7600X video. Thanks Steve 😁, now I can truly settle on the 7600x, when the prices drop a bit. Motherboard costs are ludicrous right now for what I need included and DDR5 5600/6000 is super expensive still.
People are saying it's hard work but it would be my dream job lol. It's not hard at all if you love it and can listen to stuff or even watch stuff while doing it, especially for data nerds
@@Dionyzos there's also LTT's new automated benchmark called "Markbench" xD
@@Dionyzos also 90% of the work is just waiting
We're in a golden time for CPU competition, reminds me of the Intel vs AMD in the early-mid 2000s
It really is a fierce market these days. Please for the love of God, bring that heat to the GPU market as well Intel.
@@dondraper4438 they did,beating rtx3050 for the first time making gpu is quite a feat,ngl
We will be when AMD and Intel start to cut prices to compete with each other.
Golden might be too far, AMD is obviously taking the piss when it comes to $, with only the 7950X really making sense, and Intel is taking the piss when it comes to power, trying to reenact the ending of Terminator 2.
Was there ever competition apart from zen3 era?Intel always won.
Can't imagine how hard the last few months must have been for reviewers. Keep up the good work.
It's been a rough time, but a good time :D
@@Hardwareunboxed surely as happy as Larry with all the amazing hardware - nice work!
they get views for the effort. fair trade.
Well.... they also making more views than ever thanks to everything going on...
It must be quite an exciting time for reviewers.
It's nice to see D4 3600 being tested on this cpu. Definitely what I'm looking for.
$230 3600 c14 though. Actual pricing difference right now on PCPartPicker is $35 between it and the ddr5. Not terribly relevant imo
@@caribougoo349 Well, It's relevant when you already have the thing and just want to upgrade the cpu
@@peopleundercover7462I think kits with that xmp just started rolling out a couple years ago and they were insanely expensive($175 for a 16gb gskill kit released in August 2020). Of course I'm sure there's plenty of lucky b-die kits predating that. Not totally irrelevant just a little unlikely
@@caribougoo349 yea but u talk about very worst ddr 5... good ones are 2 times more expensive.
@@ZondaRbg If you want to compare the exact kits used in this review, the ddr4 is currently $5 more than the ddr5. I was being favorable to ddr4 and comparing the cheapest 3600 c14 which is a team group non-rgb for $40 less
Just want to say that in addition to the stellar benchmarks, your b-roll shots are consistently interesting. Thanks for all the hard work and hope you can get some rest now that some of the heaviest periods are done.
It's almost scary to see how fast you are with the testing. Thank you for the Benchmarks!
Most of the testing was started a week ago ;) But thank you.
Most of the youtubers get the chip from Intel before launch date but they're not able to show benchmarks until launch date or when intel let them do it.
Agreed! Amazing work!
@@simplerelaxation9743 still, the quality is amazing for just one week :)
you realize they get these things before consumers. just tied with NDA's until they are released lol. in other words they cant tell anyone about it.
What I find fascinating is you have a PC generation jump that basically requires higher power consumption across the board - about to collide with the biggest energy crunch in the western world because of pipeline drama etc... As winter rolls into the EU and you start seeing these energy bills rise even more - I think the appetite for power hungry PCs is going to drop like a stone. It is going to be really interesting to see how this generation plays out because I would guess it will not be great. I hope I am wrong.
Will only make undervolting more popular. Ppl will fall off the bleeding edge diminishing returns of even the factory boost settings. Losing a few fps you will not notice on decent resolutions to save hundreds of watts is a no brainer. Even the cooling improvements will benefit with these hot chips.
Look up eco mode results, you can turn down the performance on zen 4 a ton without really losing performance.
@@alvar891 how do you "save hundreds of watts" by "losing a few fps". You want to go from 100W on gpu to 0? That will make you lose more than "a few fps"
@@Meowkowhy Meant the total power draw. Undervolting the gpu also. Some of the high end cpus like the 13900k peaked over 350watts and the rtx 4090 also goes well over 400w. Can see both of those reducing a few hundred watts. Out of the box even the 13600k seems to have no limits sucking up double of what could be tuned off.
@@alvar891 $700 CPU and $1600 GPU and you're concerned about the electric bill? I'd just get a gaming laptop if I wanted to save on my electric bill.
I would love to see a test of ALL new cpus with max 60-90 watt power usage.
As someone who's currently planning a small form factor build, I very much agree. How they perform at a "sweet spot" amount of power will be the most important thing.
Yes. Max 125Watt also. Most people don't need that for the sake of less stress on energy grid.
Check out the der8auer video. He tests that with the 13900k and it beats out 5950x and 7950x in performance efficiency in most tests.
Yeah it would be great to see at an equal power of either 65 or 125w how the cpus all perform, to see how efficient each architecture is. Sucks that it seems both AMD and Intel have pushed their cpus so far this gen for almost no extra gain.
@@axegash2790 I've never watched his content. I'll give it a go. Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm looking forward to the B650 reviews and updated cost per frame analysis (in terms of total system cost)
Yes, also will these power hungry processors fried the VRM's.
@@fajaradi1223 based on? B650s have typically the same or just a few stages less in the vrm. You could run 500w cpu on the x670 boards and not need any cooling in fact debour removed the heatsinks on his vrm and was running a overclocked x7950. The heatsinks on amd vrm is just a gimik because they are so overbuilt but the same can not be done with z790 boards.
Also they better keep the same testing in 2 years when we drop in a cpu and intell has to buy a new mobo and ram. It's dumb to buy into a dead platform unless you already ready have a intell system. Me waiting for the 7800x3d to just wipe the floor with the 13900k.
@@mddunlap03
Just curious tho.
Last year, we've seen Steve butchering numerous of bad board on his round up review. Wonder if it'll be ever happened again.
One thing I wish to mention about your cost analysis, the cooler is an important part of that graph given the very wide range of power draw. The 5800X3D can get away a cheaper cooler than AMD 7000 CPUs can and certainly much cheaper than anything intel 13.
Very hard to factor this in, but important nonetheless, after a quick look in newegg I'd say that the difference to a 360 AIO to a 240 is about 50 dollars. And then there are the cases that are able to fit these coolers and pump this hot air out... this is getting out of hand!
@@msansjr you can use an ak620 to cool the 13900k as mentioned by hardwarecanucks and im guessing a ak400 for the 13600k? thas 60$ and 25$ coolers.
When you have thermal headroom, what’s the point in not using it? It’s not like intel 13th gen is burning you lmao? It’s just slightly hotter. You all care way too much about slight thermal increases.
@@qwertyouriop2 if you are buying the 13600k vs the 13900k or 7950x, you obviously care about money, so if a much cheaper cooler performs more than 93% multicore and same single core v/s a 360mm aio, then i think thats a win! also, i think intel and amd saying their cpus dont degrade under 100c and 95c is only for the warranty of the cpu. the best case scenario for them is if your cpu fails after 1day and 3years, so i dont care about that figure, i would like to run it as cool as possible!
@@divijmehendru6206 Ofc divjii mehendru says the dumbest thing that makes no sense…
Thank you for including previous-gen CPUs like the 10700k, which I have. Makes it very easy to compare how they have changed. :)
10700K is still very good. I am still on skylake
@@katech6020 I'm not planning on upgrading this generation, but I was curious how much they've improved. 13600k seems like on avg. 43% faster for gaming, which isn't bad. Prob wait until next generation (14th gen).
@@katech6020 it’s not very good anymore, it’s decent, at best
@@Frosty_V0 It is way better than what I have (i5-6200U dual core)
yeah, it is quite helpful too see popular models like the 3700X there too
Looking forward for the 13400. Even if it's just a rebranded 12600K, if priced aggressively as usual, should an interesting value CPU.
Intel can't do that. They have to raise their profit margin. They really should be charging far more
@@tuckerhiggins4336 it will be more expensive than the 12400f but I would say it will be priced at 299.
@@MrUploader14 that's too high. No room for 13600 non-K and 13500.
@@NelsonCruz77 I tthink the 13400 will just have no e cores so in tha case, it won't be a rebranded 12600k
@@mparagames that would mean no improvement from the 12400. Wccftech leaked the specs of almost all Raptor Lake SKUs at the beginning of September. 13400 is 6P+4E cores, 20MB cache, DDR5-4800 support, 4.6GHz max. Just like a 12600K but with 300MHz less. Then it showed up on the PassMark database, with performance very close to the 12600K. The rumor is these will be rebranded Alder Lakes, and not real Raptor Lakes. Memory support is a clue. All others support DDR5-5600.
well played Intel! Good to see competition back, to drive prices lower and performance increase!
Will we be seeing a “cooler scaling” video this generation Steve? I see many references to platform costs, but this seems to presume one will buy a big AIO. If RPL is throttling on those, what will it do on affordable air coolers?
Exactly, many cases do not have the space for a 280 or 360 AIO. Other folks don't have the budget to buy one of these things just to get stock performance.
on my GF's pc we put a NHD-15s on her 12700f(nonK). With power limits removed etc it holds 4.5 on all the P-cores and stays in the low 80s with a stress test. Just like in the review he had to back it down to 4.7 to get sane temps. So ppl can either save a bunch of $ with nonK chips B series boards and air cooling OR double their costs with the K&Z tax plus 360aio bare minimum to ride the razor's edge while STILL pushing 100c.
Great point, actually!
Because it's unneeded, atleast for this i5 cpu. There are 3 scenarios, first is when you buy this for gaming only, which makes cooler irrelevant since in gaming the cpu would barely do anything work, and the i5 is still the best value like in this video. The other 2 scenarios are when you buy this for game + work or just work, in those cases you will need a better cooler for the i5 compare to 7600x or 5800x3D, but in return you get massive performance gain in productivity, which will far offset that cooler price, and still makes the i5 much better option. So in all 3 scenarios the i5 is always the winner, hence adding a cooler scaling is completely unnecessary.
The results here are really confusing. I’m using a $50 ID cooling frostflow 240mm rad in an 11L itx case and with my 13600k hitting 200 watts in Cinebench r23 (all power limits removed on MSI Z690i Unify) I peaked at 81C on the CPU package temp. No idea why they are hitting 100C
Not surprised that a CPU with 14 cores and 20 threads beat out a 6c/12t CPU.
You are correct that AMD needs to cut the price of this part, as it is not in the same category, lacking the 8 E cores.
This puts it more against the 7700X or 7900X for productivity, but at a much cheaper price.
Intel have this market covered unless AMD make big changes.
Don't do anything in gaming, which is what the majority of us care about.
The most appropriate move that AMD can make right now is to release the 3D models as soon as possible.
@@afriendofafriend5766 That is true, but there a few things to consider here:
1/ life of the platform.
AM5 is a new platform and AMD has hinted at similar support of AM5 as they gave AM4, so to future-proof, AM5 is the go. If however you are building a game rig with price/performance as your No 1, then the Raptor Lake chips make sense, as the socket is as mature as its going to get. The upcoming 13400K could end up being the sweet spot for gamers. But this is the last line that will use the LGA1700 socket, so this platform is a dead end going forward. (Why does Intel keeep doing this???)
2/ value
This is where the 13th gen parts make sense, with cheaper boards available from 12 th gen also, plus the choice of DDR4 or DDR5 setups. At the moment AM5 boards are expensive, with B650 starting at A$320 and X670 starting at A$540 just for the motherboard. In time they will come down, but at this stage they are premium prices. And all AM5 Mb's require DDR5.
The performance of the 13th gen parts in gaming is very strong, it will probably take the R7XXX 3D chips to surpass them in gaming. We'll have to see.
I highly appreciate that you tested 10th gen Intel CPUs.
I have an i7 10700k and it still performs great 😃👍
Have i9 10850k but its still sad how steamrolled they are in these benchmarks lol. All games have like 100+ FPS more easily
@@TheKelz Only in 1080p my guy, only in 1080p, all while using the best components.
So your CPU won't be outdated anytime soon if you are playing 1440p or above.
@@thetechrealist unfortunately even at 1440p it gets beaten pretty handily, but I get your point. Definitely far from being obsolete.
Thx for adding Intel 10th gen as well in the benchmarks.. As it's shows to me that I'm still very much GPU limited with my Intel i7 10700K, 32GB DDR4 3600, RTX 3080 10GB system playing at 3840x1600 (160Hz) resolution.. So no need to upgrade the CPU, MB and RAM, probably not even when I upgrade the GPU fist again.. Probably gonna wait with that until next gen of GPU's as well, Nvidia 50-series or something..
Who asked?
@@qwertyouriop2 Me.
@@qwertyouriop2 me.
@@qwertyouriop2 Me.
@@qwertyouriop2 I asked
While the 5800X3D is amazing and will probably be picking one up myself in a few months... if you look at it from a productivity perspective the 13600k outclasses it substantially while also keeping the gaming performance pretty close and the total platform cost similar.
If you are only gaming and already have a motherboard/ram to use with it then the 5800X3D can't really be beaten, but if you have productivity needs and game on the side then the intel part is the clear choice.
Well said
If I look at the charts it's better to buy an i7-13700k or i9 13900k tbh, especially if you want to make the best of DDR4 RAM. I want to wait for the Zen 4 7000 X3D series but you are required to have DDR5 and the new gen MoBo..
where i live 13600k and a b660 board is like only hundred more than a 5800x3d.
if i was upgrading i'd rather go with the new intel platform..
@@emregocmen9562 Well if you want the absolute best productivity performance than yeah obviously it’s better to go with the higher end parts.
But the 13600k has the best price to performance which is why I was comparing it to the 5800X3D, which also has very good P2P but mostly for gaming and not productivity.
@@RarePotions for sure the 13600k is a really good bang for your buck💪
Holy Shit the 5800X3D is on par with the 13600k @ DDR5 6400 in the 12 Game average. That's incredibly impressive and means that if you're already on AM4 getting a 5800X3D is the way to go.
Always has been.
And it is better in games that REALLY push the CPU, like ACC, MSFS, DCS, etc.
ruclips.net/video/todoXi1Y-PI/видео.html
@@cnhtol1586 it's a gaming cpu?
Not to mention the drastically lower energy consumption and without the need for a cold room to cool it.
I was saying this since Zen3: *6C12T CPU is not a $300 CPU, it belongs at $200 range.* - didn't even need any benchmarks for that.
From business perspective, increasing the price when demand went skyhigh was the correct choice, now the demand has died down, so prices must come down too
@@notenjoying666 it's $299 at Microcenter and $329 at new egg. But nice try also it's 6C12T+8eC (aka 14C20T)which is massive in productivity workloads, beating R5 7600K by 50% margin in some workloads which scale proportionally with cores. AMD's offer is absolutely EMBARASSING. It wasn't selling even without competition.
I feel the price of the CPU itself is fair. It's honestly just those damn motherboards. Otherwise, in most gaming scenarios you're still gonna be GPU bottlenecked. With the am5 platform having better longevity and efficiency, I still feel it a compelling option. We'll know for certain how compelling it is when zen 4 x3D comes out 😈
Its not fair at all, just like zen 1 and 2 era, one company is offering more cores for less money and that being intel here not only that but more availability and much cheaper platform as a whole, more flexibility (ddr4 & 5) thunderbolt support, etc.
Its just a no brainer for any content creator to pick this cpu. And gamers too. Not only that the thread director in windows 11 saw a big improvement with e cores utilisation.
@@thepunic5261 Yeah but they aren't real cores. They don't matter for gaming.
@@afriendofafriend5766 it is not like real cores beyond 6 or 8 really matter for gaming either...
@@afriendofafriend5766 they do matter for gaming its just they're not as fast as the P cores, but in reality they are stronger than the 7700k cores, its like having a 7600x and a 7700k 8 cores cpu working together that's what the 13600k is. of course you want to game on your 7600x.
again they're offering MORE CORES for the same price as amd, whether its 13600K or the 13700k. never forget that the non K skus are gonna arrive soon with the sub 300$ 13400f and sub 150$ 13100f, which will render the whole amd lineup useless consumer wise.
Finally AMD is getting it's ASS handed to them not just by performance, power draw, and Temps but also by price.
Oh yeah and when AMD releases the V3D cache ryzen CPUS , we'll intel will be ready for that launch too, with a 16 all P-core CPU called the 13900KS with no E-cores that will smash all of AMD's V3D cache line up.
Well AMD fanboys it looks like the party is over,
Intel is back and it's time to put the crown on the new budget king
I see little to none reason for a regular AM4 owner move to AM5, results of 5800x3d are still solid in terms of gaming performance. I guess I would swap after 1-2 years of current console generation.
true am4 and rx6k/rtx3ks are at best price atm, super cheap considering perf given
Honestly. AM5 Motherboard prices are a bigger issue than the CPU prices at the moment. Both need to come down, but MB prices in particular - there are no low or mid range boards right now for B or X series chipsets. It's actually more of a deterrent to AM5 adoption than DD5.
AMD and their board partners HAD to have seen this coming and were either banking on people being desperate for the new product and not simply saying no to these jacked up prices.
Be it greed or just incompetence they're handing sales to Intel who are offering that can't compete on power efficiency, and is all but garuanteed to be a dead socket with no upgrade path.
What I'm curious to see the most is how Raptor Lake fares in terms of price to performance with the most reasonably priced DDR4 memory, cheapest motherboard and an air cooler. You'd have to power limit the CPUs for the air cooler to be able to handle them of course, but how much performance would you end up losing?
Air coolers are better than water coolers like 90% of the time
@@Daeyae They're better in terms of price to performance as well as being overall more reliable with fewer points of failure. But strictly In terms of cooling performance they hit a lower ceiling compared to AIOs. I'd take an air cooler every time over 240 AIOs, but even top air coolers like the Noctua NH-D15 can't compete with 360 AIOs. They're a lot more expensive though and you need big cases to fit them, which is why I want to see how viable air coolers are for the latest CPUs, it would be ridiculous if 360 AIOs were suddenly a minimum requirement.
@@chrys9256 Air coolers can compete with 360AIOs, not a custom loop but AIOs are dog shit
@@Daeyae you clearly got some tiny super cheap AIO to test with, AIOs dont even underperform vs custom loops, ppl just like the look of custom loops but they dont offer much performance upgrade, also more points for failure than any AIO.
The 5800x3d looking pretty when it got lowered to $360 prior to the zen 4. Then the zen 4 comes out and reviews come in and they found out how good the 5800x3d really was and it's price goes back up and it's still battles next gen Intel good.
Very seriously considering moving from my 8700K to this one, looks like it'll make a huge difference for compilation and video rendering.
make sure you have proper cooling in order to sustain that performance. I think it'd be pretty trash in hotter countries due to the temps
Wait for Zen 4 3D. Intel will cut prices after that.
@@PowellCat745 lol 3d AMD chips haven’t been good for productivity so…
@@donkey7921 The only 3d chip wasn't meant for productivity though... It was in the gaming tier with the added benefit of performing well in regards to productivity. You are out of your mind. LOL
@@PowellCat745 If Zen 4 3D ends up only reflecting in games like the 5800X3D does and doesn't offer overclocking support this time, idk if Intel will feel compelled to lower prices (at least not that much).
Even then I'd rather see larger gains in performance at 1440p and higher.
It’s amazing how much Intel and AMD have switched roles and how much Intel has improved in the last 2 gens. Competition is great for all!!
Yeah, I think it's clear that AMD has to somehow throw more cores at their lower end CPU SKUs in order to keep up with Intel in productivity workloads and/or bring down the price of the existing lower end Ryzen CPUs.
That being said, Intel also has to find a way of getting this sort of performance while being way more power efficient, especially for mobile CPUs...
And that's why I'm more curious than ever to see what Intel 4 will do for 14th gen Meteor Lake CPUs, as well as what the Ryzen 8000 series lineup will look like... I feel both could mark a major shift from what we are seeing today...
What is impressive to me is that 5800X3D on those charts. Great video.
@@tilapiadave3234 I bought it a while back and got a great deal on it.
@@HK.Builds it's garbage compared to these newer ryzen and especially intel cpus.
Here in India, the difference in price is $100!! So yes 7600x is much more cheaper than 13600k here but 7600x requires a full system upgrade and AM5 platform is quite expensive. One thing to consider is that AM5 will support atleast 1 more generation so it's much more future proof too. For only gaming, 7600x is the way to go as it performs much better or at par with 13600k but for productivity 13600k absolutely wrecks 7600x so it all depends on your preference. Personally, 7600x would make more sense since it will allow for a future proof upgrade path however the prices of AM5 motherboards really need to drop down as I think 7600x is fairly priced but the platform upgrade is holding back majority of users.
Its in seasons like this that I wish I lived in America, I keep seeing reviews saying ohh its 300$... 400$ but here in Europe for some freaking reason the 300$ is closer to 400€ and the 400$ is over 500€ not to mention prices of a decent motherboard that is almost as expensive as the CPU itself if not more. So CPU+MB+RAM combo is already over 1.2k, like WTF happened!?.... You used to be able to build brand new entire systems with that money and the currency value is almost identical! Soon enough people will be switching to consoles.
I would like to see tests with a normal air cooler that alot of people would purchase. 360 AIO water coolers isnt realistic and massive air coolers isnt realistic either for alot of people. both the 7600x and the 13600k would be more interesting with this kind of limitation.
not realistic? arent 360 aios cheap nowadays?
@@TheNubaHS They're cheaper but still they're used mostly by more experienced users. Average Joe wants something as little complicated as he can get. You would be suprised how many computers with something like Core i7 I've repaired with basic stock coolers, because they're more convienient and easier to install.
@@foxx9555 average joe will always pick the AIO over the noctua's gigantic turtle of doom. unless you mean the standard intel cooler but does it even comes with the 13600k?
I'm running the 13600k with a 240 AIO and a contact frame. In gaming doesn't really go above 70°
If I process a video it gets to 99°
Without the contact frame it got to 100° and a throttle
360 AIOs cost less than higher end cooler boxes, its better cooling for less money (but shorter lifespan bc fans can be replaced for cheap and solid radiators can live 100s of years tho you always come up against higher RAM stick heights.) Bought a run of the mill 360 AIO and I can leave 100% stress test on all cores for 10 minutes and the highest core temperature doesnt pass 82c so you have a lot of headroom.
I completely agree with this. Even the 12600K made the AMD value prospect lower; I have kept watching a price correction for months. AMD right now is in a very bizarre position.
Ive been saying this for a long time that if AMD didnt raise core counts or seriously drop prices Intel would destroy them and here we are. Its obvious as hell they were cause off gaurd with Alder Lake and believed their own hype and the fanboys that Intel, and absolute tech monolith that has been around for yeaes, was done. Zen 4 is literally just a 12th gen competitor. Theyve basically resorted to pretending E cores are pointless and claiming all their cores are P cores like that makes a difference that they’re getting rolled at half their skews by an i5 in multithreading. If AMD really wanted to compete they woulve stopped selling two R9’s and sold the 7700X as the 7600X. Maybe even drop none x skews for each at $50 less dollars and sold the 7600X as a 7500X for $200. They still wouldve lost in total price to performance but atleast their minshare could carry them And the could put the 7950X against the 13900K at the same price and that wouldve actually probably been a win
Man, I'm so tempted to buy the 5800X3D. If there's a good black Friday/cyber Monday deal on it, I think I might.
It's funny how Nvidia is using 'abusive prices', but when AMD does it nobody bats an eye, AMD isn't an underdog anymore people.
>but when AMD does it nobody bats an eye
interesting headcanon
AMD really should consider releasing a DDR4 board for AM5. I don't think a couple months late is too late and I'm sure they could actually do it. It's not a DDR4 vs DDR5, it's 'I have this memory' vs buying brand new kits. Couple things though. B650 board are available and cheapest is $180, with Asus full size at $200. So I don't think $290 is completely accurate anymore.
Although I know it's impossible to test everything, it would be curious to see the credibility of some claims people are making about disabling CCDs and E-Cores performance wise, even if it's a small dataset.
I did make it to the end of the video, thanks.
At 16:10, in the cost-per-frame analysis, how come the DDR5-6400 memory used with the i5 is only $200, while the DDR5-6000 memory used with the 7600x is $280? Usually, faster memory is more expensive.
Also, why don't you make a point of testing both Intel and AMD parts with the same DDR5 memory, like you did with DDR4?
The ryzen ddr5 might be their version of xmp and costs more than standard xmp ddr5? Just guessing
In the chart the 13600K with DDR5 is $330 + $280 + $180 and for the 7600x it's $300 + $280 +$290. I'm pretty sure the the second number is for the ram cost, so $280 for both (could be argued the 7600x DDR5-6000 ram should be slightly cheaper than the 13500k DDR-6400, but I'm not sure how much of a cost difference there currently is between those two). The big price difference though is the $180 vs $290 for the motherboard and I think that largely comes down to being able to use Z690 and B660 motherboards for Raptor like vs only the brand new X670 for Zen 4.
@@arowden B650 motherboards had already arrived with prices starting from 170$.
@@arowden You're right, I managed to confuse the numbers. The subheading of the slide does actually state it's CPU+RAM+Motherboard. Thanks!
So it really is the mobo costs that makes up the bulk of the cost difference.
@@jmhagle Ryzens are optimized for expo ddr5 memory.
In regards to 16:45, a cost analysis with more sweet spot DDR4 3600Mhz CL16 memory would be super useful since if it's a $100 cheaper set of ram (I think most 32GB kits with those speeds are like $120-130) and decreases performance by only a 1-3% I feel like it would drastically shift the graph around. Maybe a video purely about the best bang for your buck cpu out of Ryzen 3000/500/7000 and Intel 12/13 gen in a bunch of different use cases? Either way great video!
in the games that ddr5 helps it can reach over 20% performance loss due to ddr4. No one in their right mind should be using ddr4 on 13th gen.
I agree some tests including 3600 CL16 would be great. Even 3200. I see a lot of people claiming DDR5 is pretty much a scam, DDR4 will get you better performance on average and that DDR5 costs double of DDR4. Which I just dont get. Like, if youve got the DDR4 already, great. But if you dont, thats still money you have to pay, and DDR5 really isnt expensive on the level people make it out to be.
@@zeropride1133 The cheaper DDR4 3600 CL16 ram would be AMD 3000/5000 systems, since the way more expensive ram doesn't offer that much of a performance lift
Damn, even the 13600K throttles on a 360mm AIO.
I hope prices go down soon, this 7700X looks amazing!
7800x3d will be an epic crushing cpu upgrade for the 7600X and 7700X owners like me. I am looking to the future , not current benchmarks. 14th gen intel will need new mobo, so I didn't get that for my system this month, I got am5 so I can drop in new cpu in future. 7700x does better in games, and why i wanted it and bought it.
Sort of dumb to buy a 7700k now then upgrade in a few months
@@timothyandrewnielsen i mean, the 7700x just came out, Im on 5 year old hardware and didnt want to buy intel. I want a new pc for my b day this saturday and throught this winter/christmas to play while its cold and snowing, plus I want to be able to play all my games without cpu bottleneck and to play new games coming out like ill, the day before, calypso protocol, etc, with a good CPU and it only makes sense to get 7700x cause i can upgrade in a year or two, NOT MONTHS, cause the 7700x will be fine at least a year or two, then upgrade, while intel will need need mobo and I didnt want to have to do all that. futureproof. I will get 7800x3d in a few years, not months.
but it is and option in the future, but intel owners will be stuck on 13 gen boards when 14th gen releases but amd wont.
It's why i went with amd this time after 15 years with intel.
Considering many people already have DDR4 to reuse, the value proposition tilt even further to Intel, AMD need a price drop quick.
not only that he was testing with average ddr4...
The CPU isn't cost that much. The real cost is the platform ( mobo + ram ).
The only good build this time is 13400f + b660 + ddr4 (last gen cuz this gen are damn expensive).
@@maou5025 13400f is alder lake and way slower
@@rdmz135 The different between alder and raptor is e core, cache and clock speed. It's not a new uArch like meteor lake supposed to be. And what would you do with a powerful CPU? Playing game at 1080p 240fps+?
@@maou5025 i bought 4400mhz vipers and 12600kf with gigabyte aorus z690 for $400 US
Finally the review i've been waiting for! I've never sen such a big difference between a gaming CPU(AMD) and Rendering CPU(INTEL).
wasnt the zen 2 and zen 3 vs intel 10900k and 11900k bigger
@@tandlose Sure but i don't want to see videos on old CPUs when i'm going to upgrade this generation.
@@halbrakt3457 what lol. you said you had never seen such a big difference between cpus, but the difference last gen was even bigger. Has nothing to do with wanting to watch old cpus or upgrading lol
@@tandlose no
The i5 smokes my i7 11700k...time to upgrade
Have to laugh at the comments from 6 months back where amd fans were saying intel dead zen 4 going to crush it ,,seriously uneducated comments.
Did that i5 just suck up more than my graphics card? WHILE beeing at 100 degrees? What a time to be alive
Awesome job intel. I have to say, the 13600k impresses me a heck of a lot more than the 13900k. The 13900k may be able to do much better overall, but the value proposition on the 13600k is absurdly good. Was not expecting this level of a generational improvement (aside from power and thermals.). And apparently neither was AMD.
Warmer climate gamers can’t ignore power or thermal. The need for a big liquid cooler makes the power draw even worse.
@@tringuyen7519 pretty sure if you care about the what, 50 watt increase at best, you really just have AMD up your ass. Just admit it, Intel won the first round. Now let’s see if AMD can hit back with a v3D model and a price cut.
@@tringuyen7519 You're not wrong. Though I imagine that much like the others in the series, it's pushed way past the peak of its efficiency curve by default. This is also seen in the default behavior of the Ryzen 7k series. (and those peak even earlier.) I'm in support of eco modes and such. I've downclocked/undervolted my existing CPU, and lowered the power limit on my RTX 3070, because I have headroom to suffer a minimal perf. loss while decently reducing my power use.
Unfortunately, it's right that a CPU that is 10% faster, but consumes 50% more power sells better than one that's 10% slower, but uses 50% less power. (at least when not on mobile devices)
I'd much prefer the latter.
Could you do a comparison of the 13600k and 7600X using an "okay" air cooler (such as the Coolermaster Hyper 212)? I understand using the best cooling possible for evaluating the maximum performance potential of a new CPU. However, I don't think the users who typically buy this sort of CPU will be pairing it with an expensive 360mm radiator cooling solution.
I agree, plus I try to keep my bills to the minimum especially with almost 100watts more being used to get a little more performance. I still prefer AMD in those terms. Im a penny pincher lol
you wouldn't put a 212 on these lmao
Something like an Ak620 is what you would want / not too expensive and would do a fine job.
The result would still be the same, in gaming both can use the same cooler since cpus don't do much in gaming, an okay cooler would works fine, so the value result don't need to factor in cooler. In productivity yes you will need a better cooler for the i5 compare to the 7600x, but in return you get so much more performance uplift, making the cooler price difference irrelevant and the i5 would still be a much better choice in that case.
yeah way better cpu coolers for the same price that have the performance of the D15
Intel's e-cores are a blessing for rendering and productivity, where they can be used to great extent. For gaming they're not as valuable, but can be used for other background things, especially because there are only 6 performance cores for the I5-13600K, which can then be focused for gaming.
They are blessing for tests but not for real world workflows, where the performance is unreliable due to thread management.
yeah lots of ifs with ecores, i mean by the time games uses ecores efficiently well prob have gen 14 and matured (and cheap) am5 anyways.. so yeah, at least low loads are better now esp on 13100 and 13400
Yeah but the 13900k shouldn’t have 16 ecores and only 8 p cores smh. I don’t care about goddamn ecores man I want all my cpu cores to be strong and not held back by weaker cores.
Idk why they can’t make the 13900k have 12 performance cores and 12 ecores. Only having 8 performance cores is not good compared to a 7900x with 12 performance cores. Those ecores don’t make up for that because they’re useless in gaming.
@@cheshirster this is misinformation and id know considering i use a 12700K for multiple different productivity tasks
@@darkhaven9119 strong p-cores past 8, sometimes even 6, yield no gaming improvement. More cores does not mean more fps
Struggling to see how the 13600K 'annihilates' the 7600X. On balance, they seem pretty well matched.
Crazy to see how AMD went from dominating MT by a huge margin to being matched in highend and being beat below that. But with Meteor lake Intel really needs to improve power draw for heavy MT tasks.
Also good to see that both companies are very competetive overall, that should give us better prices and products.
Zen 4 with v cache will dominate in a few months
@@darkhaven9119 Dominate gaming for sure, but at what cost ($$$)?
@@attilad.8142 It won’t be that expensive. Just look at the 5800x 3D bro. That shit is even beating the 13700k and 7900x in a lot of shit and it’s not expensive at all.
When the 7800x 3D comes out it’ll be 400 tops. The 7900x 3D will probably be 600-650. It’s around the same price range as Current zen 4 just with a 20-40 percent performance increase so the cost isn’t that bad.
@@darkhaven9119 if the pricing is good those cpus will be the obvious choice, but I dont think a company that focuses on profits will give away a premium product for cheap when there is no equal competitor.
@@attilad.8142 pricing for amd cpus is always good. The v cache models will be 50-100 bucks more max. I think that’s worth it
Thank you for keeping the 10700k on the charts. Alot of us still running that chip or the nearly identical 9900k and it looks like it's getting close to time to upgrade...maybe one more generation 😂
Ha ha. If you keep looking at charts its always time to upgrade. The question should be. Are you happy with current performance
Please make some real-life scenario testing using tower AIR cooling.
How many people are using expensive 360 AIO, especially with lower-tier CPUs?
We want to see benchmarks for both RaptorLake and ZEN 4 with some common cooling.
360 mm doesn't cost that much anymore, Arctic's price/performance is absolutely insane, outperforms much more expensive models.
In the EU the 13600k costs ~€425 and the x3d is €438. So I went with the x3d to replace my 3600.
Waiting for the x3D to drop below 400 :p, but maybe i hold on till the 7600x3d comes out and sell my PC as a whole and built something new, fingers crossed that ram&motherboard prices have gone down by then
Yep depending on where you are value changes, looking at delivery in my area 13600k 466,98€ and 7600x 359,90€. The 5800x3d would be 465,41€ but at no additional cost of Motherboard and Ram since i'm already on B550. It's a no brainer .
Watching the last reviews, funny how often you say arctic freezer 360. You should get a sponsoring for that :)
Motherboard Manufacturers decimated AMD's CPU launch, that is the single biggest reason I will not make the switch right now. I refuse to raked over the pricing coals by those ludicrous Motherboard prices!!
Intel did the job! Finally more competitive in price-performance. But thanks to agressive AMD campaings and price-performance.
Good Job with the video as always!
🤟
Its simply AM5 platform change that's crippling them. But if you have (like me) moved to Zen4 don't panic. Because when those 3d versions come out you will have some fun.
A 7900x3D and 7800x3D isn't going to be cheap though. And if it's only the fastest in gaming 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 like the 5800x3D is at 1080p and not much better for productivity, then idk.
I can easily see a 7900x3D launching at $699, $800 for a 7950x3D, and $500 for 7800x3D.
@@chrisjr6214 If you look at the numbers in the 13600K review the 5800X3D is about 25~30% faster than all the other Ryzen 5000 parts over the 12 game average. Even at 1440P.
If HWUB did a new "41 game benchmark" with the 5800X and 5800X3D on a RTX 4090 I am sure the 5800X3D would increase its lead. Many games in the old video were already GPU limited at 1080P with the 3090Ti.
@@chrisjr6214 it depends on how much inflation comes down by then.
We are going into winter with insane energy prices. People will be spending less on electronics etc so prices will have to come down. It just depends how far down the manufacturing chain those costs will drop.
I supply automotive parts to jaguar land rover and the fight for silicone is still a big problem. To the point they have had to put production on hold.
But I still think even if they are as high as you said. People will still buy them if they are cream of the crop. 4090s sold out instantly with a price tag of £1700!.
Cost per frame in Germany using same configs roughly would be: AMD (7600x 349€, Gigabyte Aorus B650 290€, 32 GB Kingston Fury Beast 247€) = 895 (825€ with 70€ Cashback on Mobo) CPF=5,11€ (w/o cashback), 4,71 (with cashback)
Intel (13600K 385€, MSi B660 Tomahawk 220€ or cheaper AS Rock 200 €, Memory as above 247€) = around 842 €, CPF= 4,81€.
If it's standard 6000 and 6400 DDR5 then that's like 240+€ and 6400 is like 380+€ in Slovakia with similar average performance while power consumption is not taken into account which it should be these days.
@Crypto Arnold Would make a great budget combo with a cheap DDR4 kit
@Crypto Arnold Yeah, you gotta set some priorities! :D
Steve: "Intel lists and MSRP of XYZ but that's the per 1000 unit price" is an oxymoron. MSRP is Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, and Intel doesn't even use that term on their slides. Intel doesn't suggest the retail price at all. They only list gross vendor pricing.
I wish it was mentioned that B650/B650E are available now for as low as $170. Yeah, prices are still high on most boards, but your cost per frame analysis for the full platform is quite flawed as early as today (release day of the video)!
Overall, great video as always! Thank you for your hard work to bring us such thorough information and interpretation for these new releases
Not available globally yet.
Also I don't think cost per frame is the main reason Steve ended the video recommending the 13600k. It's just that for anyone doing a little productivity, it's just a no brainer in terms of performance. I wouldn't buy any of these just for gaming tbh.would probably wait for cheaper ryzen or even next gen ryzen or intel if I'm fine with what I have. No point spending this much on a gaming CPU unless you're rich. The difference between these and the 5600 is just not meaningful enough.
A non-K i5 in a B motherboard usually ends up taking the value king prize.
Probably the 13600F whener we get that.
Cheaper everything.. and fast enough.
@@peterpan408 with ddr4 and a b560 board it will probably hang with the big boys while still being unbeatable.
Not interested, the chip is too hot. Even with a custom look that I usually build, this is just too much power for the performance gains. 7950x is the best CPU on the market now by far for desktop PCs.
im going from a i7 8700 to 7900x,good choice ?
Honestly do not focus on those power consumption you see in the reviews. Generally speaking the average user is not running benchmarks to gtaher the maximum performance or frames. The average consumption of those cpus, independently of being amd or intel , is far far lower. and the temps also. I have a 12700k , and it Rarelly goes above 72 degrees, and that is when doing something unusual. in games the temp is on the 60 if the game is actually demanding and it is summer , on most days it overs 50 or so. The power consumption also rarelly ever gets close to 190 w, specially since i game at 2 or 4k resolution, so the graphic card is the one doing the work, and the cpu rarelly goes beyond 60%. Outside of game all my other activities do not push the cpu in any considerable form. the temp right now while writing this is 32 º with slightly above 2% load.
@@Solrac-Siul As someone who does work with rendering, streaming etc. and pays a crapload for electricity every month - that adds up. And I love hardware that has a decent headroom for overclocking in both temps and voltage/power department. No freakin way I would accept hardware that is thermal throttling out of the box with the best off the shelf cooling out there. My 5800X is currently tuned to 65W and I rarely remove that for specific workloads or games. The performance drop is minimal, but the power consumption is very low. I expected way greater efficiency with this generation. Performance crown is nothing when the CPU is constantly trying to roast itself even with a custom watercooling loop.
and it can run 16 virtual machines on it which will work very well. there are no option for this on the i9 ;)
Was considering going to a 7600X over my 10900 for gaming reasons but I want a cpu upgrade that is better in all aspects, even outside of gaming if I'm upgrading. This 13600k is the kind of lift I'm looking for.
consoomer
@@bigweeweehaver Brooooke
I’ve been team blue all my life, but the 5800X3D was a precursor for what we’re going to get with the 7800X3D.
With the rumours of that coming in Q1 (which is also when Noctua’s new DH-15 is supposed to drop) I’m going to have to hold off.
I mean, why would you buy a 7800X3D when Meteor Lake (14th gen next year) w/ large IPC increases is coming?
AMD will recapture the gaming title for like 5 months w/ the 7800X3D (lose in everything else) before Meteor Lake comes & will lose it again for nearly 2 years until 8800X3D (early 2025). Zen 5 won't come out until late 2024 & will TRY & compete against 15th gen Arrow Lake (huge IPC increases).
@@OC.TINYYY
AMD will recapture the gaming title for like 5 months w/ the 7800X3D (lose in everything else)
Yeah, this computer does nothing but gaming.
That's the thing most people keep fucking getting tricked by.
How the fuck people haven't realized the inherent bias of reviewers overhyping chips that are good at productivity tasks is beyond me. 99% - probably even higher than that, won't use the benefits of what reviewers overhype CPUs for.
If I need a car for a race, I'm not going to be opting for a BMW with luxury features, and being able to do everything above average. I'm opting for a McLaren, because all I will be benefiting from is what that McLaren does.
I'm also not going to fall victim to analysis paralysis, where I'm constantly thinking of what I'll miss out on if I wait. Because here's the crazy thing: Shit always gets better, while your shit gets worse. I've waited 5.5 years with a 7700K, while building PCs for friends that have 8th gen, and 12th gen, and whatever the best option is in Q1 of 2023 is what I'm getting. And even if I do regret the purchase, it's not like it's set in stone. I can just repurpose or give my buddy my motherboard and CPU to upgrade to whatever else. But that's only if the difference in gaming is sizable enough for me to care.
But right now, there's games releasing that I need an upgrade for, and if the 7800X3D is the best option at that time, I'm buying it.
I'd wait if my CPU wasn't 4 cores, but it is, and it's awful. The 1% lows in every game I play are horrendous.
That is because these reviews are meant for everyone in the market, not just gamers. Productivity is huge in the age of work for home and almost everyone wanst to create content. I feel it is less of reviewers overhyping and people being unaware and and more of you being an angry small minded GAMER who doesn't realize the world does not revolve around him and his hobby.
it is mind-boggling to me that just 4 years ago, I bought an i7 8700K, which was the flagship Intel CPU at the time, for the same price of this generation's i5 offering. It's a great chip and I'd have no trouble putting it into a system with a high-end GPU, but it's just insane to me that you "only" get an i5 these days for the same money as an i7 four years ago.
I went with a 8400 4yrs ago, and manage to snatch a used 8700 pc, swapped out cpu and resell the pc with an i5, best decision I made, that aside now that you mention it, yeah the price comparison is insanity, but that worked in my favour now that I think about, I realized I saved even more thanks to your comment.
The results are very even and that is the best news for the consumer. From what I see an advantage in amd is that the socket has a life until 2025 and intel does not, I would like Intel to apply the same on its platforms.
Meteor lake is supposed to use socket 1700. Yes, they changed it back to 1700. To compete.....
Competition is good. But until they make an official announcement it's not set it stone
I agree that is a huge advantage AMD doesn't get enough credit for. Zen 4 wasn't even the big architecture change. Zen 5 will be which will make it an even bigger leap than Zen 4 was over Zen 3.
@@ryanlemieux3323 Lol Zen 4 still has great IPC gains while Raptor Lake’s Raptor Cove cores and even Meteor Lake’s Redwood Cove cores are going to slightly refined and improved versions of Golden Cove architecture.
Honestly, the only thing I'm worried about the last gen cpus (AMD 7th, Intel 13th) is the longevity. Sure, they promise it's all fine, but every cpu hitting 90c+ constantly must have degradation issues in a few years of use IMHO.
9900k runs as hot if not hotter and those are still chugging along
There are settings in BIOS for desired temps if this bothers you.
For me looks like 7600x will be the smarter upgrade path to chose. In eu the intel cpus are more expensive and their mobos cost mostly the same price as am5. As I saw the trends on ryzen 5000 series previosly, the am5 cpus and mobos price will keep drop with months after their release. I dont have ddr4 rams so I would go for ddr5. There are already games that has like 20% more performance over ddr4 and I think in future games it will be more likely they will utilize ddr5. and am5 boards having support for future ryzen cpus is a huge bonus for later upgrade while z690/z790 reached their ends.
yeah imagine using intel for 4-6yrs and electricity not getting cheaper. Compounding it will make Amd much cheaper in the long run
@@bagman5369 Most people don't change their CPUs frequently, so it's not going to sway most customers. The platform costs do, though, and if the above is true, AMD does have a price advantage elsewhere.
Finding those EXPO DDR5 sticks with low cl is a bitch tho, gotta order from elsewhere and pay VATs.
The 5800X 3D is a beast of a cpu for gaming. Might be the better value vs Zen4 and Intel 13th gen if mainly game
At least as an upgrade if you already have an AM4 board. May just do that myself.
@@RuruFIN that is what I have right now a B550
They need to launch a 5900X3D just because there's demand for it. Zen 4 is selling poorly.
Weird times, Intel offering more cores per CPU for less money. Do you remember how they were milking us with their 4 cores CPUs and improvements of 1-3 % between generation?
And now, they can add more cores, they can lower their prices. AMD and their Ryzen hit them hard.
But it made that we have more choice and healthy competition. So all good.
@@tilapiadave3234 AMD stole tech from Intel?!! They paid license for x86 and then invented x86-64 that Intel bought from them. Please inform yourself.
why is nobody considering the 11900K anymore? it seems like every reviewer forgot its existence....i know it wasn't the best CPU...but still, some of us who were "stupid" enough to buy it would like to see how it holds up
I think AMD somewhat experimented with Zen4, clearly splitting the products into workload (7900x/7950x) and gaming (7600x/7700x), hoping that there aren't too many consumers who'd want a middle-ground, like the 13600K. The problem in this approach is the pricing advantage Intel has at the moment, and the fact the gaming performance varies from game to game. But I recon the pricing will swing back when Intel is the one with the brand-new platform.
Great review. To me, this portends the death of the 6 core processor. Intel has moved the market forward in core count segmentation and AMD will need to update their entire product lineup with the 8 core being the new midrange baseline.
6 core is only a few percentage off from the gaming performance of the much bigger chips. I don’t think they are dead, but like steve said charging $300 for such a small chip is just dumb
@@evers6214 They're not dead yet, but the end is near, lol, my 6 core stutters a lot.
What a reversal. When zen 3 came out vs comet lake, this channel and gamer’s nexus called it a bloodbath. Somebody said call 911. Now with golden/raptor cove + gracemont hybrid cores, intel has swung back hard. Using 10 nm tech! Imagine if raptor lake was ready back in 2017 to succeed sky lake! Nonetheless, what amd has done with zen is impressive and I’m glad to see competition return. I’m looking forward to meteor and arrow lake and zen 5. Full speed ahead !
Tbh even with zen 3 i felt like 10th gen intel was the way better buy unless you were going ryzen 9. There werent actually that far off in performance and10th gen became way, way cheaper. You could get a 10700K for the price of a 5600X and at one point a 10850k was even close in price. Dont forget for a while zen 3 didnt even have much for stock. Zen 3 is the most overrated CPU gen i can remember due to price to performance and AMD’s green was given a pass for virtually raising price over $100 for each skew and pretending it was only a $50 increase. I personally havent seen them as a good investment since Zen 2, but taking the top performance spot for a year and being the alternative choicecompletely let them get away with some real bullshit.
@@Angel7black true I remember when the mighty 5950x used to be sold out and micro center had it priced at $799. Everyone was acting like it was a god tier cpu. And then alder lake and now raptor lake came out at lower price points and laid it to waste. And the price declined. Given the potent performance of the 13600k and 13700k at their competitive pricing, amd will have to drop prices on the 7600x, 7700x, and the 7900x.
@@Angel7black i mean intel bought that on themselves with the 11th gen disaster
See how nice competition is! Now we just need real competition between AMD>Nvida to get things moving along 😊
Why would AMD need to cut prices? 13th Gen is Intel's last chips on their current socket. There absolutely no reason to buy them, which is the exact opposite of AM5.
Buying the 1st phase of AM5, you can update later on the same socket. That's not even factoring in the x3D chips coming out next year in late Q1. AMD has no reason to worry.
Really doesn't matter the performance of 13th Gen, pointless to build unless you wanna blow money.
With 1440p gaming becoming more and more common, would you consider adding Cost per Frame graphs for 1440p? I imagine with games becoming (more) GPU bottlenecked at higher resolutions, that could possibly shuffle the results around a bit.
yeah I game at 1440p with a 3080 and a Ryzen 5 3600, I would upgrade the CPU tomorrow if I could find a really good reason but its hard to find one other than just because
I'm planning on upgrading from i7-8700k to am5 but on the current state of amd.... im having second thoughts now. i hope they really do a price cut be it from a motherboard or the cpu itself
It's better to wait for better Motherboard/RAM prices and Zen 4 3D V-Cache, very likely regular Zen 4 CPUs will receive a price reduction by then. Still I'd say AM5 would be a decent investment because it'll have a similar life spam as AM4.
TBF, they can't control the price of motherboards.. but I see what you mean ..
Wait a few months for zen 4 with 3D v cache. It will dominate and is going to be 20-40 percent better then Current zen 4 and will be way better then intel.
loving this back-and-forth, great for the market and great for the consumers
@@tilapiadave3234 Ok...?
Love your videos. I had some ddr4 bdies sitting around, so i handed off my 5800x setup to the wife and built a 13600k setup. With the holiday sales spent under 700, minus the GPU i already have. Cheers!
My favourite thing about all of these reviews is the rightful and continuous dunking the 11th gen has received
Ummmm. I don't see an annihilation here? Back and forth in gaming ,which the majority of people buying this tier of processor are going to care about. Also buying the Zen CPU gives you an upgrade path. 13th Gen Intel is on a dead platform so?....
Did you see the productivity results? I'm not saying anyone doing that type of work seriously will by the 13600K. However, having the ability to do some of those jobs and up to 40% performance at less total platform cost is a huge deal for some potential buyers.
I agree the longevity of the AM5 socket is a very big feather in AMDs cap right now, but to be honest by the time anyone buying a Raptor Lake CPU will consider it _too slow_ it will be time for a new board anyway. I enjoy the idea of being able to possibly put a Ryzen 9000 CPU in a current 670/650 board, but for a lot of new customers, let's say Intel Loyals, Zen 4 right now does little to sway the over to team Red.
AMD needs to drop the Price of the 7600x to $239.99, if they want to seem competitive in more than just gaming at the lower mid-tier level. With the 13400f coming along with now E cores, the 7600x will have much harder competition from a much cheaper part, as that should at least match 12600K performance.
IMO of course.
@@davidwooten7212 No one that makes their living code compiling or even general productivity is going to use a 13600k. These are gaming processors. The only workload other than gaming would be streaming,and or Photoshop,and they are just about exactly the same in these. I agree AMD needs to lower the price,but they will do just fine considering the upgrade path. No one likes spending any amount of money on dead end technology.
@@bigjsmashman4958 Your fist comment just echos what I said in my first reply. However, we agree to disagree. I think you are selling a rather large contingent of current Intel owners and possibly some AMD owners on older hardware short. The 13600K presents a very compelling argument and is undoubtedly a better all-around CPU than the 7600x, the test show that to be pretty irrefutable. In gaming they are nearly identical, if platform longevity doesn't matter to some, maybe most on Intel, how is the 7600x a viable option?
Don't forget a lot of people spent money on DDR4 based Alder Lake, that old _dead end_ memory spec didn't stop them from buying now did it?
Opting for Intel here is an idiotic view. First, the 5800X3D is a better choice than all of them, if you plan to stay on DDR4 for a while. Second, if you plan on upgrading to DDR5 sys, then the AMD X3D chips are slated to be out in first quarter 23'. So in either case, AMD is the clear choice, and anything to the contrary is just shortsighted and narrow shallow thinking...
With cost for electricity rising, if building a new system, the power consumption cost difference can probably even out after a few years, maybe seeing some minor electricity savings long term. Of course assuming default performance and not under volting to maximize performance for wattage, highly dependent on cost per area. I wonder what under volt performance would look for these two CPUs and if there is more disparity or not between them. Especially for more budget minded builds, taking into account electrical costs might start becoming more relevant when evaluating parts than just upfront costs.
They need to release X3D in 2022 not 2023.
This video is so useful. I come back to it every now and then. Thank you very much! But i don't think the 7600X "gets embarrassed" by the 13600K in productivity workloads, when it comes pretty close to it in Premiere and beating it in Photoshop and After Effects. And video and picture editing is probably the most common productivity workload for a gamer. It could also shift more and more to the AMD side in the future with PCIe 5.0 M.2 SSDs.
You should have made it more about 13600K vs 7700X, because it beats it as well in almost all production benchmarks and the gaming performance is basically the same as 7600x.
Nevermind...
But 7600X is the actual competitor price wise? I really dont care if Intel throws more silicon at the problem, AMD should do the same or drop the prices. Hopefully zen5 will have 10 or 12 core CCD design so we get the core count increase across the lineup
What was the reason for the speed difference in DDR5 memory between AMD and Intel? 6000 vs 6400
Yeah, that thing stinks.
Intel can hold higher speeds stock
I've said it since the 5000 series, Amd is going up slip when they haven't added any cores since Zen 1. I was expecting a core increase at the same price points with the 5000 series and we didn't get it. So now Ryzen 7000 is out and for the whole and I repeat whole life of am4 and now starting into am5 we have the same core counts at more expensive prices then zen1. And no the 12 and 16 don't count because those came with price increases. If Amd right now has a line up like this we would be singing their praises. 7600x 8cores, 7800x 12cores, and the 7900x 16cores and then $255, $375, and $500 respectively they would have destroyed Intel. People need to understand this. I'm not happy with Amd right now. How the hell is Intel beating them with core counts?
E cores lol
Agree. I made a similar comment here...
I really don't understand this strategy... this just show how you can do good for a while and in a second you bring down everything. Meh... shame.
@@bwizard1062 there is always an advantage coming from behind, amd wanted to beat intel and succeeded because intel had gotten complacent. Now Amd has become complacent and intel jumped them. Unless amd messes up big time, and realizes they are playing catch up, next gen amd should be equal or better than intel.
@@mitlanderson ecores matter in a lot of instances and when they have main core parody the ecores matter especially on the lower skus that don't need a power plant to run
"Amd is going up slip when they haven't added any cores since Zen 1"
I think you mean Zen 2. With Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) they went up to 16 core with the 3950X.
Thank you for testing the 13600K on DDR5 and DDR4.
It's crazy times when even an i5 nowadays runs at 100c, throttles and consume a lot of power...
Seems like CPU's reached a dead point in my opinion.
We have completely different prices here in Germany. So this is a little misleading.
What's incredible is the vast array of CPU/performance/price options available now! Both AMD and Intel are providing some compelling choices! I don't admire anyone who is considering what new CPU to put into a new build...it depends on one's case usage, generally productivity, gaming, or both. It's an exciting time, and thanks for the comprehensive, intelligent and "tell it like it is" reviews Hardware Unboxed!
Got a question, Will this be on the same socket as 12th gen? If so this is the last (probably) CPU gen for it, as 14th gen will likely support a new socket, as per Intel's typical 2 year socket cycle. AMD is coming into AM5 and if it's the same as AM4, then it'll support at least 3-4 generations. Yes AMD is expensive, but it's coming into it's generational socket as the 13th gen is probably the last supported CPU for the 1700 socket. The question people need to ask right now, Do you want power and performance now? Or Do you want multigenerational support (possible to 4 generations), for future upgradability? These are the questions one needs top ask to decide
Amd said they’ll only be supporting this up to 2025, so no. Only two generations for amd.
@@KevinLikesRTS, Really? Last I heard it was at least three generations possibly 4? Still doesn't discount the fact that AMD is coming into the socket as Intel is going out of the socket. But if that is the case I'll just stick to AM4 till i have to upgrade as i still have plenty of room to grow. If that is true then Harvey Dent (The Dark Knight) was right, Die the hero or live long enough to become the villain. if you are right and AMD is now only 2 generations, they just became the villain in my eyes
Personally, if I am only gaming on a budget and no video/3d editing work, I'll go with amd. But if I do editing/3D, it's a no brainer. I'll just upgrade everything after 3-4 years.
@@crazylarryjr yeah. Watch the gamers nexus video on 7000 series. The timeline is max 2025. Everyone is pissed they aren’t doing more than two generations on it.
The i5 has never been a $300+ part. Pricing needs a serious cut.
This is what I love to see, market competition at its fullest. I was a fierce supporter of AMD during the AM4 era as they did so many things right, but it seems to me that for my next build (probably in one or two years' time) I will swap sides.
Why? By the charts amd is still best bang for the money. Ddr5 prices are droping and they will not be a dead socket like intell. Also they are comparing a budget intell board vs x670e flagship boards you can already get sub 200$ am5 boards boards but oddly skewed the numbers and odd they went with 32gb of ram vs the 16gb most gamers will buy to really sell intells dead socket
@@mddunlap03Both Intel and AMD are competitive right now at all levels, and this only favours us, the consumers. I'm not saying at all that Intel is super ahead of AMD currently, and certainly the 7600x is slightly above the 13600K in terms of gaming performance. Price/performance favours Intel though, that's all my comment was about. I'm happy with my 5600x for now anyhow.
Could we see the second coming of one of the greatest CPU's of all time? The 2500K. Def seems that way, I'd be interested in OC numbers on the 13600K and how far you can push it.
uhm No. That was the 5800X3D.
@@VoldoronGaming 3D has nothing on 2500K with its price. If it was 150 bucks less, then sure.
The 13600K is slower in games, uses 50% more power and the money situation is helped in Intel by no midrange/low end AM5 boards existing.
How is it "the next 2500K" in any way?
@@raresmacovei8382 It isn't. It can't touch the 2500k. Period. Greatest CPU of all time. Next would be the 5800X3D.
These have already been pushed quite far. There isn't much room to OC.
Just ordered a 5800X3D, seems to be the only viable option if you don't want to pay the DDR5 tax. 13600K would make sense if I planned for any CPU heavy professional use cases. Since I went all in for the GPU (4090) for machine learning, I will pass on the halo cpu models.
13600k works fine with DDR4
@@oktc68 do you actually watch this channels videos? DDR4 is often, not always, a real bottleneck for cpus without v-cache
The question is will Intel be able to respond when the x3d chips come out. That plus the easy amd upgrade path for the future makes me think the currently high platform cost might be worth it for gamers.
That depends on how dramatic the improvement is with the 7800X3D is. People won't jump for it if the memory, motheboards, etc... are so damn expensive.
For $300, a processor needs to have more than 6 cores and 12 threads. I'm not sure what AMD was thinking with the 7600x, in 2022 people expect more at that price point. When intel is offering a 14 core, 20 thread processor for just $30 more, the 7600x is pointless.
@Stein Mauer At $200 it would be competitive, but at $300 it's better to look elsewhere.
Umm, no they don't. You can't look at sales data right now and derive anything from it because AMD, Intel and Nvidia ALL projected drops in sales EVEN with launching new products. Try following economic news from these companies.
AMD has such a small amount of Zen 4 out along with a small number of supporting B650/E MBs that it's silly to talk about Zen 4. AMD's economic future doesn't depend on TODAY.
The best selling Zen 4 CPU right NOW is their most expensive one, the 7950X, and you can't explain that from price. You explain that by, the people who need as much CPU power as possible for their workloads are going to buy as soon as they can, and consequently the best selling 13th gen CPU right now is ALSO the 13900K.
Gamers on the other hand, if they're going to buy into Zen 4 are waiting to see the Vcache parts. People on a budget who are going to buy into Zen 4 are waiting for the 7600 or 7700 which WILL get released about Q2 next year. Or, they don't want to buy a GPU and are waiting for Zen 4 APUs, which WILL be good enough for 1080p gaming. This is going to be about the best jump in APU performance AMD has ever had. And AMD APUs have over the last 1.5 - 2 years had at least 3 different SKUs in Amazon's top 10 best selling CPUs. The 3600 dominated the top spot for a long time, but it's pushed down now and the 5600 has moved up on that list.
So, lack of MBs, APUs, 65W TDP 7600 and 7700 and Vcache parts coming out will ALL change what's happening with Zen 4 sales.
But here's the other thing and why all three of those companies projected drops in revenue. Inflation. I don't know about the AU but in the US inflation is BAD and it's affecting food costs more than most other products and the price of fuel is much higher. These costs eat away at people's spending money. Most households already did upgrades or bought new systems from 2020 - 2022. This came about because computer tech has improved a LOT since 2016 and Ryzen and Intel's reaction to it has caused a big BOOM in sales. That doesn't last forever. Most people don't replace PCs every year or two. Most households use a PC for a good 5 - 10 years. If they game, they'll replace the GPU. If they buy AMD systems, they'll upgrade the CPU with the last gen CPU the MB will take and use that system another 5 years. So there's many AM4 owners that won't upgrade for a good 4 - 6 years from now.
These are facts. Reviewers tend to get lost to reality because they have parts in and out of their hands constantly. Yes, there are some people that replace systems every 2 - 3 years. Most households don't.
AMD is doing better than Nvidia and Intel right now though because they're the most flexible with their products. In fact in probably about 9 - 12 months Microsoft and Sony will put out something like Pro models for their consoles, based on Zen 4 and RDNA 3. So, AMD isn't going to overproduce desktop CPUs. They're also still making a lot of profit from their server market. Since one line of EPYC CPUs use the same core chiplet as Ryzen, AMD can shift how their CPU cores are used.
AMD will see a drop in sales for PC desktop, but they get to leverage their server market and leverage gaming consoles to make up for it, and they get to shift wafers how they see fit. They did that in the past and will keep doing that.
I expect to see the current line of CPUs get discounted next year. MAYBE AMD has a temp. discount around the 2022 holiday shopping period.