@@FrameVoyager There were a few videos way back, and a lot of test footage of this camera, looks like they took all of it down imao. Looks like NSA got something to learn.
I was in the industry around 4-6 years at that time when Dalsa was up the street from the OG Panavision WH location. I can confirm when all things were working (and you shot it perfectly) the images off the Origin 4K were absolutely stunning and were compared against 4K film scans during the time, but Alan was/is right as even during that time among those who were really excited for the system deep down knew it was far too large and cumbersome for production work. These early days we plagued with a great deal of R&D that suffered very deep cuts, but informed those who would plow ahead that there were many steps on the ladder than would need to be tended to when making even a modestly commercially successful camera. PV's "NASA camera" also never hit the stage due to the extreme difficulties of developing a working camera. It was an exciting time in the late 90s and early 2000s as Hollywood was rather small and more "parking lot tests" went down than you can imagine while everybody was figuring things out. I can't stress enough, the motion picture industry was incredibly small back then. Nowhere near the market place it is now when it comes to rental houses, production companies, or owner operators. In the beginning the hopes were making things like 5-10 working cameras to maybe one day make 200 if things really caught on. It's important to underline that virtually no DPs were the target buying audience here. This camera was being made to sell to studios and 2 or 3 rental houses at the time. But everybody knew the industry was growing. The whole industry has grown exponentially across the years which pretty much has made the landscape workable for manufacturers to create bigger and better tools, or more aptly smaller and more powerful. Even still, it's still relatively small compared to many other fields.
RUclips recommended this video to me and within seconds I thought to myself, "hey, wait a minute" because some of the imagery of the Dalsa camera you were showing in this retrospective were my images and were from the set of my film that was shot entirely on the Dalsa Origin II --before it was used for the two feature films mentioned in this video. In fact, we had to give up one of our four Origin II bodies to send to Europe (I believe it was) because at the time there were only 6 working bodies in existence if memory serves. If you ever want to know more about the creative side of working with this camera we shot with it for 28 days and mostly handheld (if you can believe it). Anyway, great video and great channel! -Andrew
Hey! That's awesome. Honestly, know one really knows about this camera. I can't believe you shot it handheld haha. Would actually love to hear more about the creative side of working with the camera. I've been in contact with a University that has like the last one I believe, and trying to work out maybe a time to go and see it and maybe film with it.
@@FrameVoyager Filming with it at this point (I believe) would be impossible unless you have an LTO player circa 2007-ish. Furthermore the codecs are very difficult to work with in 2022. I have TB of RAW Dalsa footage from set and opening it and working with it without specialty equipment is virtually impossible nowadays. But if you email me through my about page or DM me on IG @recoveringaudiophile we can chat further.
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Great vid! I worked with Ed DiGiulio back in the late 90’s on a couple of projects in SoCal. He was obsessed with the Canon XL-1, but I hated them for the clunky ergonomics. I needed up using my Panasonic EZ-1 instead and Ed absolutely loved the results. He was a sweet guy and I was invited over to his home many times over the year I worked with him. Got to rummage through his garage full of filmmaking equipment. Don’t remember seeing any digital cine cams in this spectacular stash, or remember him speaking about the Dalsa. Thanks for the memories.
😂😂😂 I know way too much camera trivia for my own good at this point. Noticed this the other day when someone, who doesn't know anything about cameras, said something wrong about them in an analogy and I immediately without thinking blurted out why he was wrong and what the right answer was haha.
Please never stop this series, so long as there are abandoned cameras remaining I’d love to continue hearing about them, this series and your channel as a whole have become videos I always look forward to watching so thank you
I worked on a TV spot for Toyota that we shot with the Dalsa Origin - mostly what I remember from that shoot was the feeling that 35mm film, that had been the standard for shooting National / International TV commercials up to that point... was dead. Kodak just hadn't realised it yet. Am I remembering correctly - but didn't sensors sourced from Dalsa end up in other early digital cinema cameras?
I think the last camera I can remember DALSA trying to make one for was the Aaton Penelope Delta for a CCD sensor. I would say that RED probably borrowed a bit of this here from their hired DALSA employee, but they went the CMOS sensor route.
What killed the Dalsa was it’s ridiculous workflow. The physically large camera was mildly annoying but nothing that couldn’t be overcome on set. At the time people we used to shooting with 35mm film cameras with 1000’ mags and they were similarly bulky. In fact the Dalsa Origin was shaped vaguely similar to an Arri 2C in a blimp housing. But the workflow of the camera’s files was ridiculously complex. First they were Uncompressed RAW so they were massive. Second they had a little sidecar file that contained a translator distinct to the individual camera sensor, because Dalsa’s other problem was that they couldn’t make two sensors that matched (this inconsistency is in large part what killed the Aaton Penelope-D, which used a different Dalsa sensor). The workflow was so onerous that the sidecar file attached to ever Dalsa clip could get easily detached, and then woe is you trying to recover that clip. You essentially needed the near-supercomputer processing capabilities that Dalsa invested in at its Woodland Hills facility (next door to Panavision at the time), and that didn’t go over very well. And then there was the issue of the business model, as the people hired by Dalsa may have understood what it took to build a camera for Hollywood, but they didn’t understand the ins & outs of the industry’s rental business. When they did hire someone who knew it was discovered that Dalsa’s projected income was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how much money they could expect to make. Even if people wanted to use it (they didn’t because of the post workflow) there was no way Dalsa would ever earn close to what they had expected. So eventually the bean counters shut it all down after the company had spent an absolute fortune.
💯 pretty much 😅 just a lot of issues all around with the camera. Again, making something ahead of it's time is cool but you don't have the necessary stuff setup to be able to even use it well!
Pro tip: when lifting images off of Wikipedia (like the hot mirror one), don't save the thumbnail embedded in Wikipedia, click on it to get the full res image.
Was wondering when you'd do this one. I remember when this camera was being sold, 4K was unheard of and the design of the camera was a bit bizarre, thinking that it had to look like a regular film camera so it would be adopted easier by the industry.
My man! A sponsor! Let’s gooooooooooo, your diverse content and hard working ethic to put out this new amazing series is seriously inspiring like, you are killing it. You’re a big inspiration as a content creator.
Yep 😅 guess that Red 28k video got noticed haha. And appreciate it! Been a fun series to produce and get to share with everyone. Always surprised how many people are interested in all of this stuff!
Wow! Yeah, you're really lucky haha. This is really the only semi-documentary type look this camera has ever received lol. This has a bunch of info too you won't find other places.
Oh wow! This one is one I've never heard of before and the drama behind it sounds the most interesting yet! Curious how much of Dalsa's research may have been potentially poached for the Oakley boys. Keep up the great work!
It was nice to see Dr Chamberlain at the beginning of the video. He was one of my professors in 3rd year EE at the U of Waterloo. Always cheerful and helpful. Didn’t know of his industrial developments, although Waterloo is known for its incubator successes. Think Blackberry, for example. Really interesting video.
Hey, important safety tip: the word "aliasing" is pronounced AY-lee-ess-ing, not "ah-LIE-a-sing." We saw the Dalsa Origin camera at NAB back in 2003, and my observation then was "this is a prototype designed to generate venture capital investments." In other words, an excuse to spend money. I have been told that, although some of the management went away and they got bought by Teledyne, they did hold on to some valuable digital imaging patents that paid off for a long time. Interesting note not in the video: Dalsa's headquarters were in Tarzana, only about 100 feet away from Panavision's headquarters during the 2000s.
haha I know the correct way to say that word but formed a bad habbit of saying it the wrong way and don't always catch it haha. But that's interesting on the patents!
@@Crlarl haha thanks! A few things I've been slowly building to that will kick off other series at some point. If I had a team of researchers we'd have a video every other day haha
Talking of abandoned cameras, anyone remember the Kinetta digital cinema camera from back in the early '00s? I remember its developer (Jeff Krienes) used to post progress reports regularly to cinematography groups, quite a neat, forward thinking idea at the time, but no idea what happened to it in the end.
Not sure about their cameras but I've heard that their scanners are quite successful and popular right now with archiving film due to their gentle film transports and good global shutter sensors.
Oh, both of those are already in process back to back episodes. 🤫 I actually got to do a 3 hour video interview with the Digital Bolex creator to go along with this episode as well! Those should be out by early September
In the late 00’s, early 10’s, there was a company from Russia I believe that was working on a digital cinema camera that never saw a release (similar to Fran). They had a shockingly bad website with some dubious looking highspeed footage but I can’t for the life of me remember the name. It would make a great entry into the “abandoned camera” series (given you can find any info).
@@NilsValkenborgh si 2k had really bad latitude from what I have gathered, cml did a huge latitude test of all early digital cinema cameras and the si 2k had less dynamic range then a canon dslr I think.
Also another great 00's camera: the Thompson Viper Filmstream which 'Collateral' and 'Zodiac' were shot on with and was at the same shaky crossover point as the Dalsa.
Nice job! One tiny thing if you ever get the chance to fix it. Ed DiGiulio's name is pronounced De-Julie-oh. He was a wonderful guy, an innovator in the design of motion picture devices. When you start running out of cameras, the history of the guys behind them might be a fun place to carry on.
Appreciate it! And ah, missed that. The one hard thing with this series is getting the names right 😅 good to know for next time, covering him eventually on another video
People are always surprised when I tell them how much better the sensor in their dslr is than the insanely expensive equipment we use at the lab I work in, science stuff is super specialized and only has to be "good enough" for the work your doing, it doesn't have to do all things for all people like modern camera sensors.
@@Anvilshock it's a fuckin RUclips comment I'm not writing a paper to publish here lol use some common sense douchebag, people use internet grammar because it's faster and literally doesn't matter at all.
@@teddy7746 I can't believe you actually preferred to become disproportionately defensive and resorting to ridicule and mockery over a flaw of yourself being pointed out instead of working to improve. Oh, no, wait, I totally can believe that.
I was so confused for a sec like this isn't the first 4k cinema camera but you corrected the title by saying DIGITAL. Because film has been 4k or higher for decades.
Man are you sure there is no available footage? I would love to see some uncompressed 4K digital footage of this cam from 2003. This must look crazy to see that time in such quality. In fact I was born in that year and we only have crapy low-res camcorder footage from around that time. I know there is already way older footage from physical film that was rescanned in high resolution but it's not the same as the perfect clarity and directness of digital that has no grain etc.
mate your channel is the shit, i never dreamt of getting this type of content, ever, this is top tier journalism, every video is better than the last like what the fuck haha.
That one has caught my eye for sure. Been thinking about doing a yearly "ABANDONED camera watch" 😂 like predicting the abandoned cameras ahead of time each year.
This was absolutely crazy, I had no idea that it was even possible to get actual yields with sensors of that size at the time. 20 years later and we can collect 4K video on a cell phone, but that's the price for being first in technology, it's really hard to be first, it's really not too bad to be second and way easier to be 50th.
Suddenly my little GH6 seems so amazing compared to this back in 2004, having to lug around a server just to store the data? Definitely cool to see what you can get in the consumer market now. This video was great!
Oh sweet! I actually got to go see the last 2 known ones in Toronto. Was pretty cool
2 года назад+1
I really love this series. But I do have a question about Ed Diguilo. I always thought that Garret Brown invented the Steadicam. And it does say so on the Wikipedia page for Steadicam. You can find Ed nowhere on that page. But on Ed Diguilos page on Wikipedia it says he invented the Steadicam. I find that a bit controversy. Also I would guess that the man on the right of Kubrick is Garret Brown isn’t he (4:58)?
It is. There were a few articles that mentioned him beyond the Wikipedia page and showed that picture. But that would be something on my end I'll look into because I'll be covering him again. I will say, information in this industry is not kept well lol
I jump on these videos as soon as they appear on my feed. These camera makers and their shenanigans, hey? I'm sure you're sworn to secrecy, but I wonder was Fergie one of your sources?
I saw some Dalsa cinema lenses for sale recently, which were apparently rehoused Leica-Rs with some special sauce focusing mechanism. Dalsa cinema was going to operate on a rental-only model like Panavision, and the lenses were "booby-trapped" to prevent reverse-engineering.
TLDW: The camera murdered it's creators by trapping their soul on a harddrive, and the only way to prevent more victims was to erase all knowledge of it like what was tried to Freddy Krueger in Freddy vs Jason.
Dalsa Evo prototypes where used in Alice in wonderland movie not Origin so they where real ... as it was an onboard non HDD recorder in the works When Origin came out there was no way you can have onboard recording since the raid HDD was the only available option at the time for the amount of data the camera was spitting (check the timeline) ... Oh and the list of people you are parading as Dalsa Digital Cinema people didn't had anything to do with any of the technical aspect of the design on any of the cameras. All that was pure maple syrup 🍁
Cameras like these all I can do is rely on the sources of information given to me while I'm researching. As there is almost no information anywhere on them beyond specifications. I'll probably do a follow up to this one eventually as a few more sources have come forward after the video was released.
If the Dalsa and Red used the same sensor. There could be a reason why there's no information on the Dalsa... Because Red claims it invented there sensor...
Well... Red used CMOS while the DALSA had CCD so totally different, but! It is true RED did not invent or create it's sensor but contracted a company initially
@@flapdance Have been planning a camera conspiracy series and some of that would be perfect stories to cover in that series. You'll start noticing some branching out here soon!
@@FrameVoyager AHAHAHA OMG IM SORRY pronunciation aside, i loved how you were able to compile a story about such a rare camera. i actually looked up this video because i noticed Alice in Wonderland was shot on a Dalsa Evolution and i was like "Wtf is that?" awesome work!!
I can rarely get through one of your videos because of a quirky thing you do with the narration. You cut out every breath. So the narration sounds unnatural and becomes irritating after a short while. So I watch for about 2 or 3 minutes until I can’t take it anymore.
It's a RUclips thing. Most content editors will cut out that as it drives up retention as it doesn't cut the flow of video and keeps it moving. Trying to work on getting it smoother but tbh you're probably the only person I've heard actually have an issue with it. What do you watch the content on? Sorry to hear that though! It's just been a strategy that's jacked up retention, view count, and made videos more viral. And it's something that's worked for most RUclipsrs.
@@FrameVoyager interesting. I watch on my mac pro with a 43 inch display and sometimes on my iphone. By the way, aside from this gripe, i love your series as I am a photographer and occasional filmmaker. I have editing experience over the decades and notice things most people probably don’t. Thank you for responding. Good luck with your channel and congratulations on your success.
@@richardsisk1770 no totally get it 😂 I'd notice the little things like that too haha. If this was a normal documentary on HBO, I definitely wouldn't cut it like I do. Just have a large amount of analytics before and after trying some different editing techniques and for now this one is probably 10-15% higher in overall retention rates. Appreciate you watching!
Here’s my camera commentary pet peeve…”this camera”. Many (most?) RUclips videos about cameras, lean way too heavily on the two word phrase, “this camera,” which amounts to unclear, unimaginative, repetitive, less-than-top-form writing. DPReview is probably the most egregious exemplar of overuse, but it’s all too common in the RUclips space. I would challenge you and others to pay closer attention to phraseology, and develop a wider repertoire of references to-and descriptors of-the digital film systems under consideration. Thank you. [Stepping down from my soapbox now.]
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
It took like 10 years of waiting but finally RUclips got a creator to fill this particular content gap 👏👏👏
To be honest I'm completely shocked no one has done a series like this before. Appreciate you watching!
@@FrameVoyager
There were a few videos way back, and a lot of test footage of this camera, looks like they took all of it down imao.
Looks like NSA got something to learn.
Protect this episode with your life...it's a rare to find this much information on this particular camera in one coherent presentation. Bravo!
Will do! And yeah, I don't think you'll find more coverage of this camera anywhere else on the internet
I was in the industry around 4-6 years at that time when Dalsa was up the street from the OG Panavision WH location. I can confirm when all things were working (and you shot it perfectly) the images off the Origin 4K were absolutely stunning and were compared against 4K film scans during the time, but Alan was/is right as even during that time among those who were really excited for the system deep down knew it was far too large and cumbersome for production work. These early days we plagued with a great deal of R&D that suffered very deep cuts, but informed those who would plow ahead that there were many steps on the ladder than would need to be tended to when making even a modestly commercially successful camera. PV's "NASA camera" also never hit the stage due to the extreme difficulties of developing a working camera. It was an exciting time in the late 90s and early 2000s as Hollywood was rather small and more "parking lot tests" went down than you can imagine while everybody was figuring things out. I can't stress enough, the motion picture industry was incredibly small back then. Nowhere near the market place it is now when it comes to rental houses, production companies, or owner operators. In the beginning the hopes were making things like 5-10 working cameras to maybe one day make 200 if things really caught on. It's important to underline that virtually no DPs were the target buying audience here. This camera was being made to sell to studios and 2 or 3 rental houses at the time. But everybody knew the industry was growing. The whole industry has grown exponentially across the years which pretty much has made the landscape workable for manufacturers to create bigger and better tools, or more aptly smaller and more powerful. Even still, it's still relatively small compared to many other fields.
Nice! And yeah, the early era of the digital cinema camera industry is fascinating. And full of drama 😅
RUclips recommended this video to me and within seconds I thought to myself, "hey, wait a minute" because some of the imagery of the Dalsa camera you were showing in this retrospective were my images and were from the set of my film that was shot entirely on the Dalsa Origin II --before it was used for the two feature films mentioned in this video. In fact, we had to give up one of our four Origin II bodies to send to Europe (I believe it was) because at the time there were only 6 working bodies in existence if memory serves. If you ever want to know more about the creative side of working with this camera we shot with it for 28 days and mostly handheld (if you can believe it). Anyway, great video and great channel! -Andrew
Hey! That's awesome. Honestly, know one really knows about this camera. I can't believe you shot it handheld haha. Would actually love to hear more about the creative side of working with the camera. I've been in contact with a University that has like the last one I believe, and trying to work out maybe a time to go and see it and maybe film with it.
@@FrameVoyager Filming with it at this point (I believe) would be impossible unless you have an LTO player circa 2007-ish. Furthermore the codecs are very difficult to work with in 2022. I have TB of RAW Dalsa footage from set and opening it and working with it without specialty equipment is virtually impossible nowadays. But if you email me through my about page or DM me on IG @recoveringaudiophile we can chat further.
Who else thinks this thing looks like an old mac from the 90s?
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Great vid! I worked with Ed DiGiulio back in the late 90’s on a couple of projects in SoCal. He was obsessed with the Canon XL-1, but I hated them for the clunky ergonomics. I needed up using my Panasonic EZ-1 instead and Ed absolutely loved the results. He was a sweet guy and I was invited over to his home many times over the year I worked with him. Got to rummage through his garage full of filmmaking equipment. Don’t remember seeing any digital cine cams in this spectacular stash, or remember him speaking about the Dalsa. Thanks for the memories.
Oh nice! Yeah, I think they brought him in early on just for the beginning development stage. But honestly so hard to find info on this camera 😅
i LOVE how they showed Oppy in that promo as they said its name in a sentence♥
😂
Absolutely love these videos! The kind of docu-series us camera dorks can really sink their teeth into!
😂😂😂 I know way too much camera trivia for my own good at this point. Noticed this the other day when someone, who doesn't know anything about cameras, said something wrong about them in an analogy and I immediately without thinking blurted out why he was wrong and what the right answer was haha.
@@FrameVoyager Keep it up, sir! We are loving these!
@@GeraldBertramPhotography Will do!
Please never stop this series, so long as there are abandoned cameras remaining I’d love to continue hearing about them, this series and your channel as a whole have become videos I always look forward to watching so thank you
haha for sure! I've got a lot more to go and even when we run out, I'm starting some spinoff series in the same vein as this!
I worked on a TV spot for Toyota that we shot with the Dalsa Origin - mostly what I remember from that shoot was the feeling that 35mm film, that had been the standard for shooting National / International TV commercials up to that point... was dead. Kodak just hadn't realised it yet.
Am I remembering correctly - but didn't sensors sourced from Dalsa end up in other early digital cinema cameras?
I think the last camera I can remember DALSA trying to make one for was the Aaton Penelope Delta for a CCD sensor. I would say that RED probably borrowed a bit of this here from their hired DALSA employee, but they went the CMOS sensor route.
What killed the Dalsa was it’s ridiculous workflow. The physically large camera was mildly annoying but nothing that couldn’t be overcome on set. At the time people we used to shooting with 35mm film cameras with 1000’ mags and they were similarly bulky. In fact the Dalsa Origin was shaped vaguely similar to an Arri 2C in a blimp housing. But the workflow of the camera’s files was ridiculously complex. First they were Uncompressed RAW so they were massive. Second they had a little sidecar file that contained a translator distinct to the individual camera sensor, because Dalsa’s other problem was that they couldn’t make two sensors that matched (this inconsistency is in large part what killed the Aaton Penelope-D, which used a different Dalsa sensor). The workflow was so onerous that the sidecar file attached to ever Dalsa clip could get easily detached, and then woe is you trying to recover that clip. You essentially needed the near-supercomputer processing capabilities that Dalsa invested in at its Woodland Hills facility (next door to Panavision at the time), and that didn’t go over very well. And then there was the issue of the business model, as the people hired by Dalsa may have understood what it took to build a camera for Hollywood, but they didn’t understand the ins & outs of the industry’s rental business. When they did hire someone who knew it was discovered that Dalsa’s projected income was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how much money they could expect to make. Even if people wanted to use it (they didn’t because of the post workflow) there was no way Dalsa would ever earn close to what they had expected. So eventually the bean counters shut it all down after the company had spent an absolute fortune.
💯 pretty much 😅 just a lot of issues all around with the camera. Again, making something ahead of it's time is cool but you don't have the necessary stuff setup to be able to even use it well!
This dude could make documentaries about paint drying and I’d still binge at 2am
😅😅😅 glad you like them!
Pro tip: when lifting images off of Wikipedia (like the hot mirror one), don't save the thumbnail embedded in Wikipedia, click on it to get the full res image.
😉 oh, I did haha. It was originally an awful photo lol. Been testing out some ai software that's supposed to fix images like these.
Was wondering when you'd do this one. I remember when this camera was being sold, 4K was unheard of and the design of the camera was a bit bizarre, thinking that it had to look like a regular film camera so it would be adopted easier by the industry.
I mean even inside the camera it looks like a desktop computer 😅 fascinating camera!
My man! A sponsor! Let’s gooooooooooo, your diverse content and hard working ethic to put out this new amazing series is seriously inspiring like, you are killing it. You’re a big inspiration as a content creator.
Yep 😅 guess that Red 28k video got noticed haha. And appreciate it! Been a fun series to produce and get to share with everyone. Always surprised how many people are interested in all of this stuff!
What a great surprise , I just search about this camera and luckily it was uploaded only 1 hour ago.
Wow! Yeah, you're really lucky haha. This is really the only semi-documentary type look this camera has ever received lol. This has a bunch of info too you won't find other places.
Squarespace does a good job picking which videos/channels to sponsor.
haha yep! It's nice to have the backing too. Helps me be able to devote more of my time to all of this!
Dude! This is so cool. Well done. Love this series.
Appreciate it! It's been fun as we've gone along with this series getting more insider sources for the videos!
This series is a result of genuine hardwork. Absolutely amazing 💚
Appreciate it! Been a fun ride!
@@FrameVoyager and has been an excellent source of information for us. Great work. Much Love for the Frame Voyager team
Oh wow! This one is one I've never heard of before and the drama behind it sounds the most interesting yet! Curious how much of Dalsa's research may have been potentially poached for the Oakley boys.
Keep up the great work!
Appreciate it!
You post, I come fast af my boy ⚡️ great stuff
😅😅😅 glad to hear it! This one's a crazy one
Great video and story!
Appreciate it!
It was nice to see Dr Chamberlain at the beginning of the video. He was one of my professors in 3rd year EE at the U of Waterloo. Always cheerful and helpful. Didn’t know of his industrial developments, although Waterloo is known for its incubator successes. Think Blackberry, for example. Really interesting video.
For sure! And that's cool! It's funny all the people I run into watching these videos that know some of the people I bring up
Love this series ! learning so much about these pioneer cameras
It is fairly fascinating all the interesting things that happened
Hey, important safety tip: the word "aliasing" is pronounced AY-lee-ess-ing, not "ah-LIE-a-sing." We saw the Dalsa Origin camera at NAB back in 2003, and my observation then was "this is a prototype designed to generate venture capital investments." In other words, an excuse to spend money. I have been told that, although some of the management went away and they got bought by Teledyne, they did hold on to some valuable digital imaging patents that paid off for a long time. Interesting note not in the video: Dalsa's headquarters were in Tarzana, only about 100 feet away from Panavision's headquarters during the 2000s.
haha I know the correct way to say that word but formed a bad habbit of saying it the wrong way and don't always catch it haha. But that's interesting on the patents!
I don't mean to dictate what you should make but I think it would be a good idea to make a standalone video on the internal raw issue.
Oh, I will be! haha I've been setting it up slowly throughout all of these video
@@FrameVoyager
Then you've been doing a good job.
@@Crlarl haha thanks! A few things I've been slowly building to that will kick off other series at some point. If I had a team of researchers we'd have a video every other day haha
This series is amazing gosh wow
Appreciate it!
Talking of abandoned cameras, anyone remember the Kinetta digital cinema camera from back in the early '00s? I remember its developer (Jeff Krienes) used to post progress reports regularly to cinematography groups, quite a neat, forward thinking idea at the time, but no idea what happened to it in the end.
I'm looking into it 😉
Not sure about their cameras but I've heard that their scanners are quite successful and popular right now with archiving film due to their gentle film transports and good global shutter sensors.
Thanks!
You bet!
this channel hella underrated
♥️
another fascinating episodde. Thanks for your efforts.
No problem! Thanks for watching
I will genuinely be sad if we ever run out of cameras to talk about
🥺 same
In awe at the size of that lad. Absolute unit.
Freaking MASSIVE.
Evolution was not just a shell, it was a fully functional camera and was awesome
I hope you have a ikonoskop a cam dII or digital bolex video in the works. I’d love to hear those stories.
Oh, both of those are already in process back to back episodes. 🤫 I actually got to do a 3 hour video interview with the Digital Bolex creator to go along with this episode as well! Those should be out by early September
In the late 00’s, early 10’s, there was a company from Russia I believe that was working on a digital cinema camera that never saw a release (similar to Fran). They had a shockingly bad website with some dubious looking highspeed footage but I can’t for the life of me remember the name. It would make a great entry into the “abandoned camera” series (given you can find any info).
Oooooo! I'll look into it
@@FrameVoyager otherwise the phantom 65 or Si-2k would make an interesting deepdive as well 😄
@@NilsValkenborgh Covering those too! haha
@@NilsValkenborgh si 2k had really bad latitude from what I have gathered, cml did a huge latitude test of all early digital cinema cameras and the si 2k had less dynamic range then a canon dslr I think.
Also another great 00's camera: the Thompson Viper Filmstream which 'Collateral' and 'Zodiac' were shot on with and was at the same shaky crossover point as the Dalsa.
Nice job! One tiny thing if you ever get the chance to fix it. Ed DiGiulio's name is pronounced De-Julie-oh. He was a wonderful guy, an innovator in the design of motion picture devices. When you start running out of cameras, the history of the guys behind them might be a fun place to carry on.
Appreciate it! And ah, missed that. The one hard thing with this series is getting the names right 😅 good to know for next time, covering him eventually on another video
Great information...
Thanks for watching!
the intro music has come back!
😅😅😅
From all the cameras from the abandoned series, it feels like the common theme is just bad design of camera.
Well that and tryin to do too much in the first camera iteration. Best to just make a "good" camera.
People are always surprised when I tell them how much better the sensor in their dslr is than the insanely expensive equipment we use at the lab I work in, science stuff is super specialized and only has to be "good enough" for the work your doing, it doesn't have to do all things for all people like modern camera sensors.
I assume your spelling of "your" also has to be only just "good enough", instead of the correct "you're", yes?
@@Anvilshock it's a fuckin RUclips comment I'm not writing a paper to publish here lol use some common sense douchebag, people use internet grammar because it's faster and literally doesn't matter at all.
@@Anvilshock I can't believe you actually took time out of your day to type this lol
@@teddy7746 I can't believe you actually preferred to become disproportionately defensive and resorting to ridicule and mockery over a flaw of yourself being pointed out instead of working to improve. Oh, no, wait, I totally can believe that.
@@Anvilshock correcting peoples grammar online is a waste of time that only weirdos care enough to do unironically
I was so confused for a sec like this isn't the first 4k cinema camera but you corrected the title by saying DIGITAL. Because film has been 4k or higher for decades.
💯 haha! Yeah, some of it was trying to narrow down the words used in the title so it was a bit shorter 😅
Man are you sure there is no available footage? I would love to see some uncompressed 4K digital footage of this cam from 2003. This must look crazy to see that time in such quality. In fact I was born in that year and we only have crapy low-res camcorder footage from around that time. I know there is already way older footage from physical film that was rescanned in high resolution but it's not the same as the perfect clarity and directness of digital that has no grain etc.
mate your channel is the shit, i never dreamt of getting this type of content, ever, this is top tier journalism, every video is better than the last like what the fuck haha.
😅😅😅 appreciate it!
love the epic content.
Appreciate it!
Square Space? You made it ! haha, good videos though,intresting
haha i did! Nice to have some backing on these videos now!
Kind of seems like Desilva is shaping up to be the "main villain/mastermind" of this entire doc series...
hahaha the RED storyline has so many crossroads. Will be going back to some RED stories here at some point
@@FrameVoyager RED and this guy always seem to be involved somehow---
@@grantkaufman2088 for real hahaha
Would be good to see a vid on Kodak's new Super 8 camera.....definitely looks abandoned at this stage.
That one has caught my eye for sure.
Been thinking about doing a yearly "ABANDONED camera watch" 😂 like predicting the abandoned cameras ahead of time each year.
Magnifique !
Appreciate it!
Excellent 👌🏾
This was absolutely crazy, I had no idea that it was even possible to get actual yields with sensors of that size at the time. 20 years later and we can collect 4K video on a cell phone, but that's the price for being first in technology, it's really hard to be first, it's really not too bad to be second and way easier to be 50th.
Different things. They used CCD at that time and we use CMOS now. It is still not feasible to make a 4K CCD sensor even nowadays.
@@catchnkill 4k CCD sensors have been around since the mid 90s
Suddenly my little GH6 seems so amazing compared to this back in 2004, having to lug around a server just to store the data? Definitely cool to see what you can get in the consumer market now. This video was great!
Damn the way dude bro built this shit up at the start he made it sound like the thing kept malfunctioning and killing people lmao
It probably would kill someone if you tried to pick it up 😅
i love this series
I'm just commenting to help the algorithm... Frame Voyager needs to be found
😅 appreciate it!
I have some Dalsa Digital cinema cases. I think the cases were used to carry Lacie HDD
Oh sweet! I actually got to go see the last 2 known ones in Toronto. Was pretty cool
I really love this series. But I do have a question about Ed Diguilo. I always thought that Garret Brown invented the Steadicam. And it does say so on the Wikipedia page for Steadicam. You can find Ed nowhere on that page. But on Ed Diguilos page on Wikipedia it says he invented the Steadicam. I find that a bit controversy.
Also I would guess that the man on the right of Kubrick is Garret Brown isn’t he (4:58)?
It is. There were a few articles that mentioned him beyond the Wikipedia page and showed that picture. But that would be something on my end I'll look into because I'll be covering him again. I will say, information in this industry is not kept well lol
Great work! Thank you for this video :) great source of info on the Dalsa.
No problem! Glad you enjoyed it!
perfectly produced, well done
Appreciate it!
Fuck yeah keep these coming. My wife gets super annoyed when I try to talk to her about gear so this is a better outlet for me.
hahaha same!
I jump on these videos as soon as they appear on my feed. These camera makers and their shenanigans, hey?
I'm sure you're sworn to secrecy, but I wonder was Fergie one of your sources?
🤫
5:53 what camera is this?
I saw some Dalsa cinema lenses for sale recently, which were apparently rehoused Leica-Rs with some special sauce focusing mechanism. Dalsa cinema was going to operate on a rental-only model like Panavision, and the lenses were "booby-trapped" to prevent reverse-engineering.
I believe those lenses were made by Dan Sasaki when he left Panavision for a brief period.
Ala-iasing filter makes a comeback 😅
😅😅😅 I know, I literally know how to say this right I just forget haha
the Nonya Nerd sounds alot like David Lynch lol
TLDW: The camera murdered it's creators by trapping their soul on a harddrive, and the only way to prevent more victims was to erase all knowledge of it like what was tried to Freddy Krueger in Freddy vs Jason.
> murdered it is creators
Right.
I'm happy that there is a good YT series on these cameras.
Nonya Nerd's voice is unbearable, though. But it's not your fault, obviously.
whats that music at the beginning?
Ummmm... Trying to remember what it's called. Got it from artlist though!
@@FrameVoyager let me know if you somehow remember it, great video btw
@@D3FA1T1 I will! I think I renamed the file as like series intro music or something
@@FrameVoyager you could run it through a song finding AI
Dalsa Evo prototypes where used in Alice in wonderland movie not Origin so they where real ... as it was an onboard non HDD recorder in the works
When Origin came out there was no way you can have onboard recording since the raid HDD was the only available option at the time for the amount of data the camera was spitting (check the timeline) ...
Oh and the list of people you are parading as Dalsa Digital Cinema people didn't had anything to do with any of the technical aspect of the design on any of the cameras. All that was pure maple syrup 🍁
Cameras like these all I can do is rely on the sources of information given to me while I'm researching. As there is almost no information anywhere on them beyond specifications. I'll probably do a follow up to this one eventually as a few more sources have come forward after the video was released.
Love
🌹🌹🌹
I love how much you hate RED.
😅😅😅 their cameras are fine just have never liked their marketing tactics haha
@@FrameVoyager well they sure sold me
Haha.
@@BrandonTalbot hahaha I mean, they are not all bad! But for every good industry their has to be a villain lol
If the Dalsa and Red used the same sensor. There could be a reason why there's no information on the Dalsa... Because Red claims it invented there sensor...
Well... Red used CMOS while the DALSA had CCD so totally different, but! It is true RED did not invent or create it's sensor but contracted a company initially
@@FrameVoyager THX... Would be an interesting conspiracy if it was the same sensor.
@@flapdance well... There is a bit of a conspiracy there. We'll take a look at it here at somepoint 😉
@@FrameVoyager I would love to hear all about it.
@@flapdance Have been planning a camera conspiracy series and some of that would be perfect stories to cover in that series. You'll start noticing some branching out here soon!
It just looks like an Arri film camera with a portable PC behind it
If you want i can give you footage of a CP-16r i own one. i also know the history of Cinema Products Corporation.
👀 yeah! That would be great
Waybackmachine, not Waywaybackmachine
hahah you're right! Didn't even here myself say it like that. lolol
@@FrameVoyager I think I heard it in a previous video from you as well. Appreciate the series, though.
@@graealex probably 😅 thanks for the heads up! I'll change that phrasing around next time
Dalsa was running windows too.
I have to add that that camera is so pig ugly, it would kill my desire to shoot anything!
hahahaha I swear it looks like an old mac computer from the 90s
@@FrameVoyager For some reson I was reminded of that cargo plane nick named 'The Guppy'
@@FrameVoyager For some reason what came to my mind was that really ugly cargo plane called 'The Guppy.'
@@LeeHarris oh yeahhhhh 😅😅😅
God the voice of the “nerd” video made me want to vomit
😂😂😂 Quite literally the only NAB 2003 video that shows anything. That's the only place I've ever found that shows video of the touchscreen working lol
Hey brother, do you have a spare red lying around I can have??? UN-Abandon it
loved the video but the way you pronounced "antialiasing" killed me inside
I know 😭 and I know how to say it too that's what's so bad 😭
@@FrameVoyager AHAHAHA OMG IM SORRY
pronunciation aside, i loved how you were able to compile a story about such a rare camera. i actually looked up this video because i noticed Alice in Wonderland was shot on a Dalsa Evolution and i was like "Wtf is that?"
awesome work!!
I think "the Zodiac" was shot with this camera.
"Did You Know?"
...that Dalsa had Leica make them a set of lenses to be used with the camera they used in ASC training sessions.
I can rarely get through one of your videos because of a quirky thing you do with the narration. You cut out every breath. So the narration sounds unnatural and becomes irritating after a short while. So I watch for about 2 or 3 minutes until I can’t take it anymore.
It's a RUclips thing. Most content editors will cut out that as it drives up retention as it doesn't cut the flow of video and keeps it moving. Trying to work on getting it smoother but tbh you're probably the only person I've heard actually have an issue with it. What do you watch the content on?
Sorry to hear that though! It's just been a strategy that's jacked up retention, view count, and made videos more viral. And it's something that's worked for most RUclipsrs.
@@FrameVoyager interesting. I watch on my mac pro with a 43 inch display and sometimes on my iphone.
By the way, aside from this gripe, i love your series as I am a photographer and occasional filmmaker.
I have editing experience over the decades and notice things most people probably don’t.
Thank you for responding. Good luck with your channel and congratulations on your success.
@@richardsisk1770 no totally get it 😂 I'd notice the little things like that too haha. If this was a normal documentary on HBO, I definitely wouldn't cut it like I do.
Just have a large amount of analytics before and after trying some different editing techniques and for now this one is probably 10-15% higher in overall retention rates.
Appreciate you watching!
Here’s my camera commentary pet peeve…”this camera”. Many (most?) RUclips videos about cameras, lean way too heavily on the two word phrase, “this camera,” which amounts to unclear, unimaginative, repetitive, less-than-top-form writing. DPReview is probably the most egregious exemplar of overuse, but it’s all too common in the RUclips space. I would challenge you and others to pay closer attention to phraseology, and develop a wider repertoire of references to-and descriptors of-the digital film systems under consideration. Thank you. [Stepping down from my soapbox now.]
Hmmmmm... I got you in the next episode 😉
Nobody cares.
Way too many flashing images at the start. Try sitting down and trying to learn something with a strobe light flashing in your eyes. Channel deleted
😎
You sound like a lot of fun at parties, Sam (sarcasm).
Dalsa tried this two decades ago, and look where we are now
Bring back CCD, give raw format