Lol Rob, "an inch and three quarter horse." We know what you're saying. It was just funny. Thanks for the great video, an the great veteran things your doing.
In U.K. the combined Jointer/thicknesser is popular- advantages, smaller footprint and more economical , also jointer width same a thicknesser width. There is considerable choice of size and manufacturer.
Meh. If your really stuck for space you must be working in a broom cupboard. Pro woodworkers hate combo's for a very good reason. The blades dull twice as quick, the job takes twice as long because your flipping the bloody tables and worst of all they are not accurate because the jointer tables go out of adjustment. The only decent combo was the old Wadkin. But bending over to feed the beast was hard on the back.
I bought a 1951 Delta table saw and have been 100% satisfied with the incredible quality ever since. The previous owner had completely restored it with high quality bearings and belt, and a 3hp Delta new motor, and I added a Bessy fence. It has needed nothing the five years I've had it. However, the tilt-toward-the-fence feature has often been the deciding feature for me to NOT make this or that project. I'm saving up for the SawStop full caddy version with the sliding table, but $6K IS a bit of a price tag.
Very good point also if you have kids or grand kids. That you want to teach woodworking to think of there safety. Also as of yet idont own saw stop or work for any one who sales sawsor wood working equipment
Thanks for the opinion tour, Rob. I'm always happy to receive the notification of a new RobCosman video. With your genius (sincerely) for modifying/designing tools, I'm surprised you haven't come up with a retrofit rack and pinion set to improve on your drill press table's adjustability when they didn't come with it from the factory. If anyone can do it I think it would be you.
I read somewhere probably on your site Rob that when the sawstop technology was available commercial every quality table saw manufacturer was on board to have it installed on there particular saws. Then the solicitors got involved and said if they did that the public would assume that the saws they sold previously obviously are unsafe. I think that's why festool went with the tec as it was their first table saw.
Great video, as always, Rob. I love listening to you discuss tools. You're like a kid in a candy shop, and it's exactly how I feel whenever I have saved up a bit of money and am considering adding to my arsenal. I will have to disagree on the list a bit... for me, in a small shop, my top 4 has to be a table saw, planer (with sled to face joint), bandsaw, and router. A planer (I use the DeWalt 735) was the game changer - outside of the table saw, of course. Being able to mill lumber flat and straight (with jigs) improved my wood working drastically. Had I known a couple years ago, I would have passed on things like a large miter saw in order to buy a planer earlier. Back then, I didn't even know what a planer was! In my shop (mostly power tools, though you have gotten me to explore hand tools a lot more), in terms of use and importance, it goes 1.) Table Saw, 2.) Planer, 3.) Router, 4.) Bandsaw, 5.) Sandpaper/ROS. With those 5 I can do so much. I can face joint with a sled on the planer, edge joint with a jig on the table saw, and then thickness with the planer. The table saw is the workhorse, the router allows me to make and use templates, add nice profiles, and do stuff like rabbets and dados. The bandsaw is amazing for resawing and curves. It is so cool getting to buy an 8/4 board and get two 3/4 out of it after I am done, and at my lumber yard 8/4 is cheaper (for most woods) than two 4/4 pieces of the same wood type. Plus, who doesn't love a book-matched panel? Sandpaper is also a game changer for someone like me who can't afford a variety of planes, and can't get the one plane I have (Stanley low angle jack) to make a nice cut because the dumb blade is curved after a failed hand sharpening attempt. I don't have a power grinder, and in terms of spending priorities, a new blade is a little down the list. Sandpaper allows me to get whatever type of surface I need for a variety of dyes, stains, and other finishes. It allows me to take my random orbit sander, clamp it horizontally, and turn it into a mini-disc sander so I can clean up bandsaw marks on curve cuts. It enables me to do things like double dying jobs, and so much more. If I had some decent chisels those would be on this list, because even with my off-brand box store ones they really allow me to clean up a lot of things. I've never gotten to use a drill press, but one day I hope to, so I can't comment on that. Anyways, have a good one, everyone!
Greetings from 50km west of Ottawa. I love NB! I'm hoping to buy a SawStop in the next few weeks so that video is what brought your way! I love the General equipment you've got there. I've inherited a number of General tools and hope to give them another 40 years of use!!
Old machinery is definetly the best with the exception of the safety built into the sawstop. my entire shop is even older than yours, rabging from 1915 to the mid 50's. They are somewhat smaller machines, more suitable for a home workshop. Brnds include beaver(drill press jointer, sander), delta(tilttop 10" tablesaw, parks plane 12", henry power tools lathes(london ont) andf a mixture if other oldies, the crown jewel is my 1915 crescent 20 bandsaw. all of them are equipped with motors from the same era
Hello, not a regular watcher but need to mention something I just noticed. That garbage can under your grinder is a sleeping fire hazard. Sparks from it can ignite slowly and cause problems. Your shop, just asking you to consider the issue. Great looking shop Sir, Cheers
Rob my wife just walked over and asked what I was watching. She thought she caught me watching dirty videos. Lol. Nope just watching a video about woodworking tools. Apparently I make the same face watching this stuff.. lol. Thanks for the video.
Regarding the runout on the Jet drill press, it is crazy to me that these companies can get away with selling tools with such flaws. I’ve seen similar issues in other top brands and it is inexcusable in my opinion
On a drill press without an elevation mechanism, try counterweighting the table. I installed a pulley on the motor mount and ran a rope from the table's bolt through the pulley and to old iron window sash weights. If want to get fancy, then set up the pulley so that the weights are inside the column.
In terms of safety, a SawStop is the safest of what I'd call a traditional table saw. I almost bought one until I started looking at sliding table saws. A SawStop is a fine saw, but a slider is another option that is at least as safe.
You mentioned the Poitras name on that band saw, I recently acquired an 8 inch J Poitras & Fils jointer and am going to refurbish it. Babbitt bearings and all. I too love the old stuff
Hi Rob, some useful tips as usual. What makes a "link belt" quieter? I would have thought all the individual segments would would result in a kind of high frequency buzz. If the Jet Drill Press quill was worn from new, why didn't you send it back?
Is 3 hp vacuum good for small shop? Also, will be putting electric and dust collection in slab. Any suggestions how much, where, and how many? Hope to eventually have equipment mentioned in video. Just bought used lathe and building a home for it (shop).
Yes, the DP is #5 (for me) because you can do a lot with a hand held drill and a drill guide. Can't handle large Forstner bits and such but still cover a lot of your drilling needs. I agree with you on old iron in many cases. They are the best bang for your buck and in many cases better built. For a jointer I wish I had room for a 8 inch long bed (or larger if I could swing it) but I don't so stuck with a older 6 inch Delta. For the thickness planer I am again limited by available space to a 13" lunchbox planer (DW735) which I have upgraded with the helical cutter head. Once I did that I realized I should have done it years ago. As good as the DW735 is out of the box it's a totally different machine now. Much improved and when I can I plan to upgrade my jointer too. While not a 'tool' per say somewhere soon in that growing list should be dust collection. Everyone hates to put money into a DC system but it's essential. Will you do another video on the next four machines? I agree (not that my opinion carries any weight) with you 100% on the SawStop. If I was in the market for a table saw today I would not consider another brand unless it had similar safety features. My Unisaw is ~12 years old and while the SS was available back then still new so I opted for a 3HP Unisaw made here in the USA. If you take away the SS safety tech they are about the same in capabilities and quality. I do like that both of the blade controls are upfront on the Unisaw, the one wrench blade changes, and the Biesemeyer fence which every quality cabinet saw including SawStop has copied.
Was it difficult to get a compatible segmented head in the Rockwell jointer? I’d imagine getting old jointers or planers would be contingent on finding one that can have its blades replaced with a newer segmented head
Jointers are easy. Remove the tables, remove the bracket that holds the bearings, Pull the head and bearings, remove the bearings (Might need a bearing puller) then replace and reverse the process. Very easy
Hi Rob, good interest video yet again. One quick question if I may? I use an electronic digital angle gauge with magnets, when setting my saw blades, to a specific angle but more critically back to zero. Will this device up set the electronic monitoring of the Sawstop safety device & fire off the blade stop cartridge?
Saw this question on a forum and the sawstop rep answered that there is no problem because theres no power going through the cartridge when the saw is off.....and one obviously doesnt use a set-up gauge with the saw running.
That question is silly, because you wouldn't EVER be using the Angle Gauge when the saw was running. Oops. just read the answer above, but I will leave mine here anyway.
Agreed, but still have some comments: Like the sawstop, agreed it is a great saw, just wish they had 14" or at least 12" models. Certainly the table saw is probably the most used, time wise for sure in my shop. But a close second is my thickness sander. LOTS of hours running stock thru that. I wish they made small thickness sanders more available to folks. Yeah, they are not cheap, but a 16" thickness sander will do a lot for most folks. I think I read somewhere where the average amount of time spent on a project was had over 60% of the time spent on sanding. My wide belt sander reduces that amount of time considerably and makes it pretty simple to do too. I'd never give up that machine.
Hey Rob, I would love to get older quality machines to work with, but how do you find them, and even know if they are still salvageable? Also, price….for those of us still on a budget how do the older machines match up price wise against new machines of the same, or similar, qualifications?
i acquired all my "oldies" from kijiji(canada) over about 10 years. most were dirt cheap(beaver jointer for $50 for example). all the them required some updating with new bearings, belts etc etc.
While you might think CL would be the obvious answer here, if you do a search for used industrial machines, I'd bet you'll find a reseller within a cpl hundred miles of your location. Price-wise, they run the gamut from vastly cheaper to the same or more than new. Depends on the machine, the features, and most importantly....the condition. My local area reseller had a sweet Delta table saw in excellent running shape for $200 because the previous owner used it as a place to paint things and the chassis was covered in thick layers of dripped paint. Easily cleaned.
Love the quality of older built tools and machines, with that said, I don’t think it would be to difficult to set that old General drill press with a rack and pinion to raise and lower that table. We need to bring Back Canadian manufacturing.
5:20 I agree completely! But isn't that a shame? Here in Germany we still have a high price brand FESTOOL but it's not always competitive with the quality of machines produced at a much more moderate price level in the 1970's.
Rob, you need to look for an old King Seeley made Craftsman variable speed drill press. I bought it for $300 and it’s the greatest drill press ever IMO.
Yes indeed. A right tilt saw with the fence on the left side of the blade makes the same bevel rip cuts (long point of the bevel is up), and has the same safety factor (cut off is not trapped against the fence) as a left tilt saw with the fence on the right side of the blade. Most all saws, even a left tilt saw, have the ability to place the fence on the left side of the blade. The caveat is that the maximum rip capacity on a right tilt saw is significantly less with the fence on the left side of the blade than when the fence is on the right side of the blade with a left tilt saw.
@@bradmeacham6982 I was thinking about the reduced capacity thing after I asked. I mainly asked because I'm vaguely aware that some raging debate on the topic is ongoing, but I cannot for the life of me grasp why if you can just switch sides with the fence. It dawns on me, though, that the only times I've done a steep bevel on a cross-cut of a sheet good (the only instance I can think of in which this becomes an actual scenario in which that lateral capacity would be relevant) those operation are always either: a. Taking place after most or all of the sizing of the panel was concluded (in which case I no longer cared about the capacity loss) or b. early enough in the order of operations that I simply flipped the panel over, too.
Rob, I noticed that you didn’t talk about resaw capacity on your band saw. What was the capacity on your General saw? How important do you think resaw capacity is when selecting a saw?
For me not to much, I resaw some but not a lot. If its 6 inches or less I prefer resawing on the table saw. The 15 inch General has a 8 inches of resaw
A couple thoughts: 1) For woodworkers who mostly use power tools, it doesn't make sense to buy a jointer without a planer. 2) For woodworkers who buy S2S wood, a planer is useful but a jointer is not.
S2S only stays flat for a short amount of time though. Once wood acclimated to your shop it’s going to need some milling again. I agree that you really should have a planner to go with your jointer though
For most hobby or even serious weekend woodworkers in Europe tend to have small workshop's or even a shared garage and for that reason space is at a premium and tend to purchase a jointer / planer combo. Do you have any experience with one of those? Even the table saw can take up a lot of room. Some purchase a rail saw that cuts from floor to ceiling which is not very pleasant but takes up far less space, in fact it can be used up against a wall. I'm wondering if a workshop can survive without a table saw and use a circular plunge saw on a rail (festool has one option) as a space saving alternative?
Check out Peter Millard's channel for a lot of content regarding track saws and how you could possibly do most things that require a table saw with just a track saw.
My Delta drill press has a lot of deflection when the spindle is extended. I use the depth stop a lot but the one on this machine is a piece of bent steel and it will flex enough to change my depth adjustment some. I hate it.
I'm curious about shop clothes. I hate sawdust in my shoes or in my shirt. what do you do about taking home a pound of sawdust in your socks and inside your shirt?
I know you recommend SawStop but it is not available in the UK yet as a table saw only as a job site saw from Festool using the sawstop safety feature. Popular medium budget brand over here is Record - what do you think of them?
Must be nice to be able to afford a big shop and the $$$ to buy these premium machines! I try my best with a DeWalt contractor saw and a craftsman jointer plus other low end power tools!
I'm right there with you. I have a dewalt job site table saw and a dewalt planer. I also have a wahuda (Taiwan) benchtop jointer. It was a bugger to set up but has the helical head cutter and now works really well as long as I don't try to do something too big. Like Rob said, I think I want to get a drill press next and one day a band saw. I've been told to get a bandsaw and a track saw rather than a real table saw but that decision is way down the road. At some point I hope to start working in a shop and then dust collection will become important but currently I work in the driveway and wear a mask when I'm making sawdust. When I was in college, I worked for an old man who retired and turned his barn into a wood shop with all the tools. He would even make those funny table legs where you move the ends around to get the leg to curve. I was impressed with all work he did and sold and he didn't start until he retired. He told me that he had watched his friends retire and sit on the porch and they were all dead in a year. So he started a wood working business and had a really nice shop. I thought he was little crazy at the time but now I really want to do just what he did. But I need a barn or some kind of shop as setting up in the driveway is a pain and only works if its not raining or too cold....
All those machines except my saw stop are purchased used for about .25 cents on the dollar. Also you do realize those are for my business shop where we run a tool making business. In my personal shop I have a tablesaw, 13 inch planer, 8 inch jointer, and a drill press. All purchased use at 75% off retail except the sawstop (I do get that wholesale since I am in the woodworking business)
Rob I totally disagree with your # 4 pick, I would much rather have a planer. than a bandsaw and it would be #3 drill press #4 also it I bought a drill press now I would get a nova., but I do love my Walker Turner radial drill press, 60 year old full time woodworker cabinet maker here.
Tim, I'm trying to decide between a Walker Turner radial drill press or a Nova, and I was leaning towards the Delta Rockwell version of the Walker Turner radial to get the longer 6" throw and getting a 3 phase version with a vfd to get variable speed. Which one would you recommend as the only shop drill press?
Great machines, but sadly +4000 dollars for a Sawstop here in Denmark is way over my budget! I have a new thickness planer (DeWalt),, new table saw (Black & Decker), and my next big buy is a new 14-inch bandsaw (1300 dollars), which will be a real game-changer, and possible to make a little money with! 😃 And use the other machines to make straight edges and glue joints until I can find a good (and cheap/used) jointer, though all machines are hard to find used, good, and cheaper than new ones, and many good ones are 400 volts, and I have only the standard 220 volts (120 volts don't exist here) in the house and my outside shed / hobby workshop, and only one 400 volt outlet in the kitchen for the stove! Most workplaces have 400 volts for pro-machinery, f.ex. professional tablesaws, jointers, bandsaws, etc. and 400 volts heavy and old machines are the only ones quite easy to find at a good price compared to new ones ...
My table saw blade tilts to the right, but I don't understand why that's a problem. I can just move the fence to the left side to make a cut like that. What am I missing?
@@Rossco242424 Adjustments have to be to the fence itself. Some fences have the sliding surface on left side only. Also some people toe the fence away from the blade and if you just move it over to the left side of the blade the fence would be toed towards the blade.
Northfield and Tannewitz are still making machines in the US, they are industrial machines, The best machines ever made were made here, Brands such as Oliver, Moak, Yates-American, Faye and Egan, among others, Powermatic was originally made in the US back when they were good machines, now they are the same machines as the imports, It blows my mind why someone would buy a new import machine and pay more for a far less quality machine as an older machine
I disagree with the Sawstop technology you can use a old arn Powermatic 66 or Delta Unisaw with a blade guard if you wont to feel safer. You need common since with these tools.
The outfeed table on a jointer needs to be about.002-.003" below the top of the arc of the cutterhead because the reference is not the top of the arc but the bottom of the cut made on the board. If the board is moved across the cutterhead the top of the arc and bottom of the cut will be a greater difference. When the board is pushed across very slowly the difference will be less. So often snipe is created when someone pushed the board slower at the beginning and end of a cut. If one adjust the outfeed table for a certain feed rate and then pushes it faster the board will rise up higher and when the feed rate is slower the board will come down slightly. A consistent feed rate and consistent pressure is very important to get a straight edge. The amount of pressure is especially important when jointing veneers.
Must be your jointer has problems because that's just not true. Sharp blades set accurately is the most important thing assuming your beds are flat and co planar.
@@joschmoyo4532 The slower you push a board across the cutterhead the closer the cuts will be together and the bottom of those cuts will be closer together which would approach the top of the arc of the cut. If you push the board fast the board will rise up because the bottom of the cuts are a greater distance away from the top of the arc. The bottom of the cuts reference off of the top of the outfeed table.
@@geraldpolmateer3255 That would only be true if your planer blades are not sharp, which is all to common on most machines. The other problem is that far to many users use to high a feed rate on machines that are under powered using dull blades. This slows the cutterhead down significantly and causes the effect you describe. On a well maintained machine the planer ripple should be barely discernible if any when taking finish cut's. Used properly the Jointer is a finishing machine as well as truing. Same with the thicknesser. You slow the feed rate down and take a bare minimum finishing cut of .5mm to 1mm. This drastically reduces the chances of tear out too. What your describing is incorrect operation of the machine.
@Joschmoyo the only way you can get a flat surface with no scallops less than .0005 is by hand planing. Run a hand plane set at .001" and then you will find there are scallops. You can figure it mathematically when you know the feed rate longitudinally and the number of arcs per inch. The closest to having no scallops is if you joint the knives while the machine is running. My machine will produce such a fine finish that the board sucks down to the outfeed table but there are still minute scallops.
@@geraldpolmateer3255 Lol. Splitting hairs to make a point. I'm a musical instrument maker. I don't need a lecture on tolerances or hand finishing to tolerance. My Wadkin belonged to a pattern maker before I got it. The beds were ground to tolerance. I sharpen my own knives and hone them. I can get a glass finish by reducing the feed rate to a crawl. I don't cheat by honing my blades in situ. Only hacks do that.
Unfortunately i don't have a shop so i am working outside my table saw, my planer/thicknesser are stored in small storage rooms outside. But since im workings now with hand tools i am using them less, i dimensioning with my hand planes and hand saws.
My view is, the machines you have will be influenced by what kind of work you do, how often you use them, what volume of product you produce and how you buy your lumber. Just sayin, JIM
Have a look for the Felder PCS - Preventive Contact System. I imagine the saws cost the same as a Mercedes, but they don't mangle the cartridge/blade. Just think of the savings! lol
Since the SawStop is so damn expensive, it's incredible that nobody has made a better machine to compete with it. Even if they have some patents on the Saw-Stopping aspect, there are many ways of skinning a cat and there is no excuse for the poor tables and fences of most of the opposition models.
Of the most basic machines mentioned, buy the biggest bandsaw you can find for cheap, with at least 20" cast iron wheels, and buy an old pillar drill to fix it. The hand tools in the cabinet, and the workbench can do the rest of the jobs. . Should be around 200kgs worth of metal at the least if you're looking for a good'un.
Wow, I got Deja Vu - why the re-upload of ruclips.net/video/VuMjdAlIuTE/видео.html ?? OK, this is identical but with 9 minutes edited out, but still that's pretty cheeky LOL
If you liked this check out Rob's playlist on woodworking Machines: ruclips.net/p/PLqUOljnY0d9cLQZ7igp6k1OT4SnAAB2qD
thank you. great information. I love the older machines. built to last.
Lol Rob, "an inch and three quarter horse." We know what you're saying. It was just funny. Thanks for the great video, an the great veteran things your doing.
Gotta see that jointer restoration video!
coming soon
In U.K. the combined Jointer/thicknesser is popular- advantages, smaller footprint and more economical , also jointer width same a thicknesser width. There is considerable choice of size and manufacturer.
I do not understand why the good euro-style combo planer - jointers are not readily avalible here in North America
Meh. If your really stuck for space you must be working in a broom cupboard. Pro woodworkers hate combo's for a very good reason. The blades dull twice as quick, the job takes twice as long because your flipping the bloody tables and worst of all they are not accurate because the jointer tables go out of adjustment.
The only decent combo was the old Wadkin. But bending over to feed the beast was hard on the back.
Funny that the bandsaw is #4 but you have three of them! Thanks for starting the discussion.
Awesome content! Much appreciated
My pleasure!
I bought a 1951 Delta table saw and have been 100% satisfied with the incredible quality ever since. The previous owner had completely restored it with high quality bearings and belt, and a 3hp Delta new motor, and I added a Bessy fence. It has needed nothing the five years I've had it. However, the tilt-toward-the-fence feature has often been the deciding feature for me to NOT make this or that project. I'm saving up for the SawStop full caddy version with the sliding table, but $6K IS a bit of a price tag.
i have an oild delta as well, mine is the delta 1160 10 inch tilt top from the late 30's
Your finger is worth every penny
Very good point also if you have kids or grand kids. That you want to teach woodworking to think of there safety. Also as of yet idont own saw stop or work for any one who sales sawsor wood working equipment
Some saws it is possible to put the fence on either side of the fence, however the saw stop is the best
Thanks for the opinion tour, Rob. I'm always happy to receive the notification of a new RobCosman video. With your genius (sincerely) for modifying/designing tools, I'm surprised you haven't come up with a retrofit rack and pinion set to improve on your drill press table's adjustability when they didn't come with it from the factory. If anyone can do it I think it would be you.
Thanks. The issue with the rack and pinion is I am not a metal shop
I agree about drill press runout.
I read somewhere probably on your site Rob that when the sawstop technology was available commercial every quality table saw manufacturer was on board to have it installed on there particular saws. Then the solicitors got involved and said if they did that the public would assume that the saws they sold previously obviously are unsafe. I think that's why festool went with the tec as it was their first table saw.
Great video, as always, Rob. I love listening to you discuss tools. You're like a kid in a candy shop, and it's exactly how I feel whenever I have saved up a bit of money and am considering adding to my arsenal.
I will have to disagree on the list a bit... for me, in a small shop, my top 4 has to be a table saw, planer (with sled to face joint), bandsaw, and router.
A planer (I use the DeWalt 735) was the game changer - outside of the table saw, of course. Being able to mill lumber flat and straight (with jigs) improved my wood working drastically. Had I known a couple years ago, I would have passed on things like a large miter saw in order to buy a planer earlier. Back then, I didn't even know what a planer was!
In my shop (mostly power tools, though you have gotten me to explore hand tools a lot more), in terms of use and importance, it goes 1.) Table Saw, 2.) Planer, 3.) Router, 4.) Bandsaw, 5.) Sandpaper/ROS.
With those 5 I can do so much. I can face joint with a sled on the planer, edge joint with a jig on the table saw, and then thickness with the planer. The table saw is the workhorse, the router allows me to make and use templates, add nice profiles, and do stuff like rabbets and dados. The bandsaw is amazing for resawing and curves. It is so cool getting to buy an 8/4 board and get two 3/4 out of it after I am done, and at my lumber yard 8/4 is cheaper (for most woods) than two 4/4 pieces of the same wood type. Plus, who doesn't love a book-matched panel?
Sandpaper is also a game changer for someone like me who can't afford a variety of planes, and can't get the one plane I have (Stanley low angle jack) to make a nice cut because the dumb blade is curved after a failed hand sharpening attempt. I don't have a power grinder, and in terms of spending priorities, a new blade is a little down the list.
Sandpaper allows me to get whatever type of surface I need for a variety of dyes, stains, and other finishes. It allows me to take my random orbit sander, clamp it horizontally, and turn it into a mini-disc sander so I can clean up bandsaw marks on curve cuts. It enables me to do things like double dying jobs, and so much more.
If I had some decent chisels those would be on this list, because even with my off-brand box store ones they really allow me to clean up a lot of things.
I've never gotten to use a drill press, but one day I hope to, so I can't comment on that.
Anyways, have a good one, everyone!
Great comments. Thanks for sharing
Greetings from 50km west of Ottawa. I love NB! I'm hoping to buy a SawStop in the next few weeks so that video is what brought your way! I love the General equipment you've got there. I've inherited a number of General tools and hope to give them another 40 years of use!!
Youcannot go wrong with Sawstop and General
Old machinery is definetly the best with the exception of the safety built into the sawstop. my entire shop is even older than yours, rabging from 1915 to the mid 50's. They are somewhat smaller machines, more suitable for a home workshop. Brnds include beaver(drill press jointer, sander), delta(tilttop 10" tablesaw, parks plane 12", henry power tools lathes(london ont) andf a mixture if other oldies, the crown jewel is my 1915 crescent 20 bandsaw. all of them are equipped with motors from the same era
wow. Send me some pics ar robswebmaster@robcosman.com
Hello, not a regular watcher but need to mention something I just noticed. That garbage can under your grinder is a sleeping fire hazard. Sparks from it can ignite slowly and cause problems. Your shop, just asking you to consider the issue. Great looking shop Sir, Cheers
Rob my wife just walked over and asked what I was watching. She thought she caught me watching dirty videos. Lol. Nope just watching a video about woodworking tools. Apparently I make the same face watching this stuff.. lol. Thanks for the video.
Glad I saved your bacon !!!!!!!
Good stuff Rob. I really like my planer though that’s a big one for me
Regarding the runout on the Jet drill press, it is crazy to me that these companies can get away with selling tools with such flaws. I’ve seen similar issues in other top brands and it is inexcusable in my opinion
I totally agree
On a drill press without an elevation mechanism, try counterweighting the table. I installed a pulley on the motor mount and ran a rope from the table's bolt through the pulley and to old iron window sash weights. If want to get fancy, then set up the pulley so that the weights are inside the column.
In terms of safety, a SawStop is the safest of what I'd call a traditional table saw. I almost bought one until I started looking at sliding table saws. A SawStop is a fine saw, but a slider is another option that is at least as safe.
Is there a company that buys older machines such as the ones you mentioned and refurbishes them and resells them? Thank you.
You mentioned the Poitras name on that band saw, I recently acquired an 8 inch J Poitras & Fils jointer and am going to refurbish it. Babbitt bearings and all. I too love the old stuff
You cannot beat it
Hi Rob, some useful tips as usual. What makes a "link belt" quieter? I would have thought all the individual segments would would result in a kind of high frequency buzz. If the Jet Drill Press quill was worn from new, why didn't you send it back?
Is 3 hp vacuum good for small shop? Also, will be putting electric and dust collection in slab. Any suggestions how much, where, and how many? Hope to eventually have equipment mentioned in video. Just bought used lathe and building a home for it (shop).
For my version of a “small shop” 3 hp would be fine. The real issue is CFM
For me #1 is the tablesaw, #2 is a jointer, #3 is the bandsaw, and #4 the planer followed by #5 the drill press.
We pretty much agree
Yes, the DP is #5 (for me) because you can do a lot with a hand held drill and a drill guide. Can't handle large Forstner bits and such but still cover a lot of your drilling needs. I agree with you on old iron in many cases. They are the best bang for your buck and in many cases better built. For a jointer I wish I had room for a 8 inch long bed (or larger if I could swing it) but I don't so stuck with a older 6 inch Delta.
For the thickness planer I am again limited by available space to a 13" lunchbox planer (DW735) which I have upgraded with the helical cutter head. Once I did that I realized I should have done it years ago. As good as the DW735 is out of the box it's a totally different machine now. Much improved and when I can I plan to upgrade my jointer too.
While not a 'tool' per say somewhere soon in that growing list should be dust collection. Everyone hates to put money into a DC system but it's essential. Will you do another video on the next four machines?
I agree (not that my opinion carries any weight) with you 100% on the SawStop. If I was in the market for a table saw today I would not consider another brand unless it had similar safety features. My Unisaw is ~12 years old and while the SS was available back then still new so I opted for a 3HP Unisaw made here in the USA. If you take away the SS safety tech they are about the same in capabilities and quality. I do like that both of the blade controls are upfront on the Unisaw, the one wrench blade changes, and the Biesemeyer fence which every quality cabinet saw including SawStop has copied.
Was it difficult to get a compatible segmented head in the Rockwell jointer? I’d imagine getting old jointers or planers would be contingent on finding one that can have its blades replaced with a newer segmented head
Jointers are easy. Remove the tables, remove the bracket that holds the bearings, Pull the head and bearings, remove the bearings (Might need a bearing puller) then replace and reverse the process. Very easy
Hi Rob, good interest video yet again. One quick question if I may? I use an electronic digital angle gauge with magnets, when setting my saw blades, to a specific angle but more critically back to zero. Will this device up set the electronic monitoring of the Sawstop safety device & fire off the blade stop cartridge?
Saw this question on a forum and the sawstop rep answered that there is no problem because theres no power going through the cartridge when the saw is off.....and one obviously doesnt use a set-up gauge with the saw running.
That question is silly, because you wouldn't EVER be using the Angle Gauge when the saw was running.
Oops. just read the answer above, but I will leave mine here anyway.
No it wont. The nagnetic wont interfer with the electrical current.
firstly how did you get into my recommended, secondly im glad you did
Thats not me, thats the RUclips algorithm
Agreed, but still have some comments: Like the sawstop, agreed it is a great saw, just wish they had 14" or at least 12" models. Certainly the table saw is probably the most used, time wise for sure in my shop. But a close second is my thickness sander. LOTS of hours running stock thru that. I wish they made small thickness sanders more available to folks. Yeah, they are not cheap, but a 16" thickness sander will do a lot for most folks. I think I read somewhere where the average amount of time spent on a project was had over 60% of the time spent on sanding. My wide belt sander reduces that amount of time considerably and makes it pretty simple to do too. I'd never give up that machine.
Rob, what is your overhead dust collection apparatus on the Table saw?
Hey Rob, I would love to get older quality machines to work with, but how do you find them, and even know if they are still salvageable? Also, price….for those of us still on a budget how do the older machines match up price wise against new machines of the same, or similar, qualifications?
i acquired all my "oldies" from kijiji(canada) over about 10 years. most were dirt cheap(beaver jointer for $50 for example). all the them required some updating with new bearings, belts etc etc.
While you might think CL would be the obvious answer here, if you do a search for used industrial machines, I'd bet you'll find a reseller within a cpl hundred miles of your location. Price-wise, they run the gamut from vastly cheaper to the same or more than new. Depends on the machine, the features, and most importantly....the condition. My local area reseller had a sweet Delta table saw in excellent running shape for $200 because the previous owner used it as a place to paint things and the chassis was covered in thick layers of dripped paint. Easily cleaned.
You just have to do internet research. I find the best deals at government surplus sites
Rob, whats your opinion on euro slider table saws like the Hammer/Felder range?
The slide is good if you have a lot of room. Never used the Hammer brand
Love the quality of older built tools and machines, with that said, I don’t think it would be to difficult to set that old General drill press with a rack and pinion to raise and lower that table. We need to bring Back Canadian manufacturing.
5:20 I agree completely! But isn't that a shame? Here in Germany we still have a high price brand FESTOOL but it's not always competitive with the quality of machines produced at a much more moderate price level in the 1970's.
On the jet dp try tightening the screw under the on off switch, on mine, different brand, it removed the slop.
Rob, you need to look for an old King Seeley made Craftsman variable speed drill press. I bought it for $300 and it’s the greatest drill press ever IMO.
I'm sorta confused regarding the tilt direction. Wouldn't you just move the fence to the other side of the blade?
Yes indeed. A right tilt saw with the fence on the left side of the blade makes the same bevel rip cuts (long point of the bevel is up), and has the same safety factor (cut off is not trapped against the fence) as a left tilt saw with the fence on the right side of the blade. Most all saws, even a left tilt saw, have the ability to place the fence on the left side of the blade. The caveat is that the maximum rip capacity on a right tilt saw is significantly less with the fence on the left side of the blade than when the fence is on the right side of the blade with a left tilt saw.
@@bradmeacham6982 I was thinking about the reduced capacity thing after I asked. I mainly asked because I'm vaguely aware that some raging debate on the topic is ongoing, but I cannot for the life of me grasp why if you can just switch sides with the fence.
It dawns on me, though, that the only times I've done a steep bevel on a cross-cut of a sheet good (the only instance I can think of in which this becomes an actual scenario in which that lateral capacity would be relevant) those operation are always either:
a. Taking place after most or all of the sizing of the panel was concluded (in which case I no longer cared about the capacity loss) or
b. early enough in the order of operations that I simply flipped the panel over, too.
Many saws are unable to switch the fence. If you can switch the fence great but you loose lots of capacity. Best solution is a left tilting saw
Rob, I noticed that you didn’t talk about resaw capacity on your band saw. What was the capacity on your General saw? How important do you think resaw capacity is when selecting a saw?
For me not to much, I resaw some but not a lot. If its 6 inches or less I prefer resawing on the table saw. The 15 inch General has a 8 inches of resaw
I would have a jointer...except its on a ship somewhere. The grizzly model that's a clone of deltas dj20 8"x 76"
Probably anchored outside of Los Angeles
Where does one find old/used equipment?
A couple thoughts: 1) For woodworkers who mostly use power tools, it doesn't make sense to buy a jointer without a planer. 2) For woodworkers who buy S2S wood, a planer is useful but a jointer is not.
S2S only stays flat for a short amount of time though. Once wood acclimated to your shop it’s going to need some milling again. I agree that you really should have a planner to go with your jointer though
For most hobby or even serious weekend woodworkers in Europe tend to have small workshop's or even a shared garage and for that reason space is at a premium and tend to purchase a jointer / planer combo. Do you have any experience with one of those? Even the table saw can take up a lot of room. Some purchase a rail saw that cuts from floor to ceiling which is not very pleasant but takes up far less space, in fact it can be used up against a wall.
I'm wondering if a workshop can survive without a table saw and use a circular plunge saw on a rail (festool has one option) as a space saving alternative?
Check out Peter Millard's channel for a lot of content regarding track saws and how you could possibly do most things that require a table saw with just a track saw.
The General 34-01 15 inch drill press had an optional accessory to raise and lower the table. Makes height adjustments a breeze.
I have one of them
My Delta drill press has a lot of deflection when the spindle is extended. I use the depth stop a lot but the one on this machine is a piece of bent steel and it will flex enough to change my depth adjustment some. I hate it.
I suspect its a newer drill press. The older ones were made better
I'm curious about shop clothes. I hate sawdust in my shoes or in my shirt. what do you do about taking home a pound of sawdust in your socks and inside your shirt?
I know you recommend SawStop but it is not available in the UK yet as a table saw only as a job site saw from Festool using the sawstop safety feature. Popular medium budget brand over here is Record - what do you think of them?
Must be nice to be able to afford a big shop and the $$$ to buy these premium machines! I try my best with a DeWalt contractor saw and a craftsman jointer plus other low end power tools!
Same same haha. We can still get it done most of the time!
I'm right there with you. I have a dewalt job site table saw and a dewalt planer. I also have a wahuda (Taiwan) benchtop jointer. It was a bugger to set up but has the helical head cutter and now works really well as long as I don't try to do something too big. Like Rob said, I think I want to get a drill press next and one day a band saw. I've been told to get a bandsaw and a track saw rather than a real table saw but that decision is way down the road. At some point I hope to start working in a shop and then dust collection will become important but currently I work in the driveway and wear a mask when I'm making sawdust.
When I was in college, I worked for an old man who retired and turned his barn into a wood shop with all the tools. He would even make those funny table legs where you move the ends around to get the leg to curve. I was impressed with all work he did and sold and he didn't start until he retired. He told me that he had watched his friends retire and sit on the porch and they were all dead in a year. So he started a wood working business and had a really nice shop. I thought he was little crazy at the time but now I really want to do just what he did. But I need a barn or some kind of shop as setting up in the driveway is a pain and only works if its not raining or too cold....
All those machines except my saw stop are purchased used for about .25 cents on the dollar. Also you do realize those are for my business shop where we run a tool making business. In my personal shop I have a tablesaw, 13 inch planer, 8 inch jointer, and a drill press. All purchased use at 75% off retail except the sawstop (I do get that wholesale since I am in the woodworking business)
👍👍👍👍👍
👌
Rockwell hired General to make some of their tools when they needed them.
I think the Rockwell-Delta were manufactured in Limeira , São Paulo , Brasil and assembled in the USA .
Not in the begining, but they did move to Brazil. I think it was in the 80s or 90s
My Rockwell Delta 28-200 14" bandsaw was made in Guelph Ontario, I think it is from the 70's.
Call Jet up and they might do something? They replaced my new drill press chuck under manufacturer’s warranty with a better chuck ( jacobs?)
Rob I totally disagree with your # 4 pick, I would much rather have a planer. than a bandsaw and it would be #3 drill press #4 also it I bought a drill press now I would get a nova., but I do love my Walker Turner radial drill press, 60 year old full time woodworker cabinet maker here.
Tim, I'm trying to decide between a Walker Turner radial drill press or a Nova, and I was leaning towards the Delta Rockwell version of the Walker Turner radial to get the longer 6" throw and getting a 3 phase version with a vfd to get variable speed. Which one would you recommend as the only shop drill press?
Each to his own.....Go badgers
@@chipreier1 hands down the Rockwell with the vdr
Vfd
Thank you!
Great machines, but sadly +4000 dollars for a Sawstop here in Denmark is way over my budget!
I have a new thickness planer (DeWalt),, new table saw (Black & Decker), and my next big buy is a new 14-inch bandsaw (1300 dollars), which will be a real game-changer, and possible to make a little money with! 😃
And use the other machines to make straight edges and glue joints until I can find a good (and cheap/used) jointer, though all machines are hard to find used, good, and cheaper than new ones, and many good ones are 400 volts, and I have only the standard 220 volts (120 volts don't exist here) in the house and my outside shed / hobby workshop, and only one 400 volt outlet in the kitchen for the stove!
Most workplaces have 400 volts for pro-machinery, f.ex. professional tablesaws, jointers, bandsaws, etc. and 400 volts heavy and old machines are the only ones quite easy to find at a good price compared to new ones ...
My table saw blade tilts to the right, but I don't understand why that's a problem. I can just move the fence to the left side to make a cut like that. What am I missing?
That sounds good. The problem is ppl being lazy & not moving fence.
@@TraconWizard ah ok so it’s not like moving the fence over to the other side presents any other dangers or problems that I didn’t know about?
@@Rossco242424 Adjustments have to be to the fence itself. Some fences have the sliding surface on left side only. Also some people toe the fence away from the blade and if you just move it over to the left side of the blade the fence would be toed towards the blade.
@@deancheng5827 Ah great points. I do toe mine over a few thou. Thank you, now I understand.
@@deancheng5827 Maybe a good workaround is to clamp and shim an auxiliary fence?
Northfield and Tannewitz are still making machines in the US, they are industrial machines, The best machines ever made were made here, Brands such as Oliver, Moak, Yates-American, Faye and Egan, among others, Powermatic was originally made in the US back when they were good machines, now they are the same machines as the imports, It blows my mind why someone would buy a new import machine and pay more for a far less quality machine as an older machine
I disagree with the Sawstop technology you can use a old arn Powermatic 66 or Delta Unisaw with a blade guard if you wont to feel safer. You need common since with these tools.
The outfeed table on a jointer needs to be about.002-.003" below the top of the arc of the cutterhead because the reference is not the top of the arc but the bottom of the cut made on the board. If the board is moved across the cutterhead the top of the arc and bottom of the cut will be a greater difference. When the board is pushed across very slowly the difference will be less. So often snipe is created when someone pushed the board slower at the beginning and end of a cut. If one adjust the outfeed table for a certain feed rate and then pushes it faster the board will rise up higher and when the feed rate is slower the board will come down slightly. A consistent feed rate and consistent pressure is very important to get a straight edge. The amount of pressure is especially important when jointing veneers.
Must be your jointer has problems because that's just not true.
Sharp blades set accurately is the most important thing assuming your beds are flat and co planar.
@@joschmoyo4532 The slower you push a board across the cutterhead the closer the cuts will be together and the bottom of those cuts will be closer together which would approach the top of the arc of the cut. If you push the board fast the board will rise up because the bottom of the cuts are a greater distance away from the top of the arc. The bottom of the cuts reference off of the top of the outfeed table.
@@geraldpolmateer3255
That would only be true if your planer blades are not sharp, which is all to common on most machines. The other problem is that far to many users use to high a feed rate on machines that are under powered using dull blades. This slows the cutterhead down significantly and causes the effect you describe. On a well maintained machine the planer ripple should be barely discernible if any when taking finish cut's. Used properly the Jointer is a finishing machine as well as truing. Same with the thicknesser.
You slow the feed rate down and take a bare minimum finishing cut of .5mm to 1mm. This drastically reduces the chances of tear out too. What your describing is incorrect operation of the machine.
@Joschmoyo the only way you can get a flat surface with no scallops less than .0005 is by hand planing. Run a hand plane set at .001" and then you will find there are scallops. You can figure it mathematically when you know the feed rate longitudinally and the number of arcs per inch. The closest to having no scallops is if you joint the knives while the machine is running. My machine will produce such a fine finish that the board sucks down to the outfeed table but there are still minute scallops.
@@geraldpolmateer3255
Lol. Splitting hairs to make a point. I'm a musical instrument maker. I don't need a lecture on tolerances or hand finishing to tolerance. My Wadkin belonged to a pattern maker before I got it. The beds were ground to tolerance.
I sharpen my own knives and hone them. I can get a glass finish by reducing the feed rate to a crawl.
I don't cheat by honing my blades in situ. Only hacks do that.
Doesn't Northfield still make woodworking equipment in North America?
I dont know for sure but I doubt it
Unfortunately i don't have a shop so i am working outside my table saw, my planer/thicknesser are stored in small storage rooms outside. But since im workings now with hand tools i am using them less, i dimensioning with my hand planes and hand saws.
Good for you. a small or no shop, means do more with less
You don't like shapers?
My view is, the machines you have will be influenced by what kind of work you do, how often you use them, what volume of product you produce and how you buy your lumber.
Just sayin, JIM
100% agree
What’s wrong with the Harvey. Same quality for a lot less!
Real shame sawstop won't supply to Europe
I didnt know that. I wonder why?
Have a look for the Felder PCS - Preventive Contact System. I imagine the saws cost the same as a Mercedes, but they don't mangle the cartridge/blade. Just think of the savings! lol
Festool?
@@jacquesdegreef.4948 Festool has the same safety features but not in the same league as a sawstop for table surface etc
Since the SawStop is so damn expensive, it's incredible that nobody has made a better machine to compete with it. Even if they have some patents on the Saw-Stopping aspect, there are many ways of skinning a cat and there is no excuse for the poor tables and fences of most of the opposition models.
Of the most basic machines mentioned, buy the biggest bandsaw you can find for cheap, with at least 20" cast iron wheels, and buy an old pillar drill to fix it.
The hand tools in the cabinet, and the workbench can do the rest of the jobs.
.
Should be around 200kgs worth of metal at the least if you're looking for a good'un.
Um, what's up the reposts lately?
Sick with covid, 16 of us in the same family. All finally on the mend, was a lousy few weeks!
দাদা মেসিনের কি কি কাজ এবং কোন মেসিনের কত দাম বলে নাওয়া চেষ্টা করতাম
Wow, I got Deja Vu - why the re-upload of ruclips.net/video/VuMjdAlIuTE/видео.html ??
OK, this is identical but with 9 minutes edited out, but still that's pretty cheeky LOL