Why We Need Pantheism | Mary Jane Rubenstein
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Professor of Religion and author of Pantheologies: Gods, Worlds, Monsters, Mary Jane Rubenstein explains why the concept of God needs to be challenged and what pantheism can bring.
#god #pantheism #gender #ecology #iaitv #panpsychism
** Subscribe to the Institute of Art and Ideas / iaitv
** Listen to our weekly podcast: / instituteofart. .
** Donate to the Institute of Art and Ideas: iai.tv/support...
Mary-Jane Rubenstein is Professor of Religion at Wesleyan University; core faculty in the in the Science and Society Program; and affiliated faculty in the Feminist, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program. She holds a B.A. in Religion and English from Williams College, an M.Phil. in Philosophical Theology from Cambridge University, and a Ph.D. in Philosophy of Religion from Columbia University. Her areas of research include continental philosophy, gender and sexuality studies, science and religion, and the history and philosophy of physics, ecology, and cosmology. She is the author of Strange Wonder: The Closure of Metaphysics and the Opening of Awe (2009) Worlds without End: The Many Lives of the Multiverse (2014), and Pantheologies: Gods, Worlds, Monsters (2018). She is also co-editor with Catherine Keller of Entangled Worlds: Religion, Science, and New Materialisms (2017).
DELVE DEEPER
For debates and talks: iai.tv
For articles: iai.tv/articles
For courses: iai.tv/iai-aca...
Science and Pantheism make a good combo! The first explains how universe works while the latter explains how we connects with it.
Good observation bro!
no, that's called worshipping the creation rather than the creator. the universe is not God. from everyday experience, only personal beings with minds are able to create and understand the laws of logic. pantheism leads to absurd conclusions: no objective morals, distinction is illusion, it's about a mind trying to convince another mind they don't exit. it's an absolutely retarded worldview.
Google Isaiah 53. written hundreds of years before Jesus. Guess who it is about? The prophecy is about Jesus. The God of Israel is the one true God.
stop with your idolatry
Btw, science is about the particular. it doesn't examine the foundation of the particular. Not everything is proven the same way. How do i know i have crackers in my pantry? I just go and check. What you believe in is a philosophy called naive empiricism, which is absolutely retarded.
@@milkshakeplease4696 logic, religions, etc, are all creations of this realm, this was created for box minded ppl coz they cant comprehend the scale of this vast universe, so they have settled to this realm only. Logic, scoence, religions,all this is just a piece of a puzzle and of this realm only. You got just a piece, mate. Esoterics includes knowledge beoyond this realm.
Everything we dont understand doesnt make sense, till it does.
@@erikERXON Exactly!
@@milkshakeplease4696 you are so closed to your own volition as the correct one you just insulted people in the process of proving your own limitations. That's why religions and views like yours should go extinct.
I’ve always been a pantheist, but it was when I was 19 years old when I found that there was a word for my spiritual and religious beliefs; pantheism 😊
Pantheism has been around much longer than Spinoza. It's as old as human speculative thought. It dates as far back as the Upanishads, the Tao te Ching and the first Greek philosophers such as Thales and Heraclitus, the Chinese Taoist Chuang Tzu, and the Stoic philosopher Zeno of Cittium.
*Native pantheistic spiritualities*
Native Americans: Sitting Bull, Chief Seattle
"Every seed is awakened and so is all animal life. It is through this mysterious power that we too have our being and we therefore yield to our animal neighbours the same right as ourselves, to inhabit this land."
*Greek and Roman pantheists*
Greek Materialism: Thales, Anaximander, Anaximenes
"The universe is ensouled and full of divinities"
Heraclitus - the priest of fire
"This cosmos was not made by gods or men, but always was, and is, and ever shall be ever-living fire."
Zeno of Cittium - the founding father of the Stoics
"The universe is a living thing, endowed with soul and with reason."
Marcus Aurelius - the philosopher-emperor
"Everything harmonizes with me, which is harmonious to thee, o Universe. Nothing for me is too early or too late,
which is in due time for thee."
*Taoist and Confucian pantheists*
Lao Tzu - the Tao of Reality
"There is a thing, formless yet complete. Before heaven and earth it existed. We do not know its name, but we call it Tao. It is the Mystery of Mysteries."
Chuang Tzu - the butterfly philosopher
"The sage has the sun and moon by his side and the universe under his arm. He blends everything into a harmonious whole."
Chang Tsai - son of Heaven and Earth
"Heaven is my father and Earth is my mother. All people are my brothers and
sisters, and all things are my companions."
*Hindu pantheists*
The Upanishads - the secret wisdom
"Thou art the dark-blue bird and the green parrot with red eyes. Thou hast the lightning as thy child. Thou art the seasons and the seas."
Bhagavad Gita - the song of God
"I see Thee, Whose face is flaming fire,
Burning this whole universe with Thy radiance."
*Buddhist pantheisms*
Tantric Buddhism - sexual pantheism
"I have visited in my wanderings shrines and other places of pilgrimage, But I have not seen another shrine blissful like my own body"
*Post Christian pantheists*
Giordano Bruno - pantheist cosmologist and martyr
"Nature is none other than God in things. Whence all of God is in all things. Think thus, of the sun in the crocus, in the narcissus, in the heliotrope, in the rooster, in the lion."
Spinoza - the geometric philosopher
"Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived."
John Toland - first to use the word Pantheist
"The sun is my father, the earth my mother, the world is my country and all men are my family."
Rousseau - the first romantic.
"I feel an indescribable ecstasy and delirium in melting, as it were, into the
system of beings, in identifying myself with the whole of nature."
Pantheistic poets - Wordsworth, Coleridge, Goethe, Tennyson, Whitman etc..
"A sense sublime
Of something far more deeply interfused,
Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns,
And the round ocean and the living air,
And the blue sky, and in the mind of man."
Hegel: the theology of history
"Reason [God] is substance, and infinite power; its own infinite material
underlying all the natural and spiritual life which it originates; and the
infinite form - that which sets this material in motion."
Ralph Waldo Emerson: the transparent eyeball.
"I am nothing! I see all; the currents of the Universal Being circulate through
me; I am part or parcel of God."
Friedrich Nietzsche - world and life-affirmer
"All things are linked, entwined, in love with one another."
Ernst Haeckel's Monism
"In pantheism God is everywhere identical with nature itself … Pantheism is the world
system of the modern scientist."
*Modern pantheists*
Albert Einstein and the cosmic mystery
"The individual feels … the sublimity and marvellous order which reveal
themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. . . He wants to
experience the universe as a single significant whole."
Robinson Jeffers: Pantheist poet
"The Universe is one being, all its parts are expressions of the same energy, and they are all in communication with each other. This whole is so beautiful that I am compelled to love it and to think of it as divine."
Gene Roddenberry - great bird of the galaxy
"I think God is as much a basic ingredient in the universe as neutrons and positrons. God is, for lack of a better term, clout. This is the prime force, when we look around the universe."
www.pantheism.net/paul/history/
Stefan The RainbowPhoenix I’m saving this comment
Sikhism is also pantheistic
@jay bell How old do you think I am? I wasn't there before 1763. You shall not project your character onto others.
@Peace Prevails nope hinduism is not panentheistic they claims themselves to be but same time they are saying that god can come in human form which is contradictory how can someone can in one form if he is whole cosmos??
the universe is not God. from everyday experience, only personal beings with minds are able to create and understand the laws of logic. pantheism leads to absurd conclusions: no objective morals, distinction is illusion, it's about a mind trying to convince another mind they don't exit. it's an absolutely retarded worldview.
Google Isaiah 53. written hundreds of years before Jesus. Guess who it is about? The prophecy is about Jesus. The God of Israel is the one true God.
I Like how passionate she was when sharing her ideas 😊
Her ideas? They aren't her ideas! Pantheism has been around since the beginning. She is passionate because she thinks that she came up with this all on her own. She didn't! And she's saying all these things because she hates the God of the Bible. She thinks she can forget about her own sins by coming up with something that doesn't judge her but at the end of the day she is alone and sad.
@@younghove01 where does she say she thinks she came up with it? She’s just passionate. And that ignorance you’re throwing around in the form of judgement is silly and discrediting to everything else you said.
@@younghove01 Pantheism does tolerate and accept religious perspective because "everything is God" even the realm of ideas belong to the world and is still part of God. We have no protest and do admire Genesis 2:15. "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." But you have to understand we also reflect on other religious beliefs such as the 4 noble truths and eight fold paths of Buddhism. We also learned a lot from Taoism that God is both creation and destruction where good and evil is a human bias of convenience. When you only take in to consideration one belief, it is like picking up a stone and calling it "earth" where in fact earth is composed of various types of rocks, plants, animals, humans, and technology. If your beliefs require you to be one sided and biased, how can you truly understand God?
God itself is the universe. Everything, is included. Just the fact that we are all speaking on the topic is more than enough proof it, i.e. God, exists. Finally people are figuring it out.
no, that's called worshipping the creation rather than the creator. the universe is not God. from everyday experience, only personal beings with minds are able to create and understand the laws of logic. pantheism leads to absurd conclusions: no objective morals, distinction is illusion, it's about a mind trying to convince another mind they don't exit. it's an absolutely retarded worldview.
Google Isaiah 53. written hundreds of years before Jesus. Guess who it is about? The prophecy is about Jesus. The God of Israel is the one true God.
@@milkshakeplease4696 You have the key within you. unlock the door, open it, step outside and see what really is and not only in thought. Dogma gets nowhere. it's all right here my dude
exactly. I think it's the only logical explanation once you find out that materialism is wrong or incomplete at least. Also, putting god outside of reality itself makes himmaterialise
I believe that God is the light at the center of every cell.
Beautiful
... and every instance of one creature devouring another.:)
@@evad7933 There's the rub. Because then, it becomes hard to distinguish good and evil.
However, I would hypothesize that what is good is that which increases complexity, diversity, balance and stability. And what is evil to be a lessening of complexity (monocultures) which results in less stability, because one of the most important rules of ecology is that as complexity increases, so too does stability. Evil is a waste of good, useful life (God). So, for instance, chopping down an entire forest to make a palace for one solitary individual human would be seen as evil because it's a needless waste, especially if you killed the "mother" tree which sort of regulates the economy of the forest using the mycorrhiza, the interaction/transaction between fungi and plants.
Watch the full interview with Mary Jane Rubesnstein on pantheism, the multiverse and ecology here ruclips.net/video/LDVEJ73WZbE/видео.html
& the reason why pantheism was seen as such an evil thing is because it is the truth, and the evil were protecting their control methods.
God came to earth 2,000 years ago in the form of a man. Jesus is the only truth.
@@bbcbridge2076 proof?
@@bbcbridge2076 …YAWN!! Bore someone else with that butt chat.
The ultimate unity of all things is obvious in how no being could exist without others in its web, whether the bacteria that make digestion and other forces possible, or the food that we consume and things that consume us. We are writhing in life and in the universe, constantly. There is no meaningful separation between humans and the universe other than time. Thus, we are God.
Honestly... I’ve never heard of this NAME before now but it’s always been my complete knowledge of how the universe (god) works. It’s common sense if you’re not clouded by mankind’s pollution. Just eat a liberty cap and you’ll understand :)
🍄
no, that's called worshipping the creation rather than the creator. the universe is not God. from everyday experience, only personal beings with minds are able to create and understand the laws of logic. pantheism leads to absurd conclusions: no objective morals, distinction is illusion, it's about a mind trying to convince another mind they don't exit. it's an absolutely retarded worldview.
Google Isaiah 53. written hundreds of years before Jesus. Guess who it is about? The prophecy is about Jesus. The God of Israel is the one true God.
stop with your idolatry
@@milkshakeplease4696 on the name of the universe, please be gone demon.
@@milkshakeplease4696 big bruh moments
@@milkshakeplease4696 Imagine worshipping a dead rabbi. The Romans did a great job. Anyone following Yahweh or rabbi yeshua deserve the same fate.
Everything in existence that you see and can’t see is absolutely God. That is exciting. It makes me want to live my best loving life.
Just relax, man! You're emotions are running way too high!
What God concept are you referring to?
If everything is God then there can't be any distinction between good and evil.
I'd be curious to hear her talk more on why she dismisses consciousness as a possible driver for the physical universe, because it seems like everything she said could still be the playing out of a physical universe brought into being by a consciousness that we are all not just part of, but that is us, and that interacts with us and that we interact with in everything we do.
Hegel
Old comment but I was thinking the same.
Interested in pantheism, but not sure? Study ecology. Increasing complexity creates increasing stability, and we are all interconnected ... We are One, if you will.
But how do you deal with bad people? How do you deal with the sin problem? How is life Fair with these pantheistic ideals? It is not
Great interview, speaking as a fellow Spinoza guy here lol. I would recommend the work of the late Gordon D. Kaufman who identified a god concept with cosmic creativity - so essentially pantheist but his symbol was the creativity of the universe (Big Bang, stellar and biological evolution, and human cultural creativity). For me "g-d" (using dash there as part of the Jewish convention since like Spinoza I am practicing Jewish), is symbolized - or can be - as essentially if you will the wave function of the universe, so, not just the universe, but all of them - the multiverse so to speak, where the universe we observe or can be predicted to observe is sort of an average of all possible geometries given by General Relativity. I think 2 elements define pantheism (as opposed to the garden variety atheism of Lucretius) - 1) The Multiverse is the ultimate "thing" but we can never know it fully due to limitations of reason a la Godel Incompleteness, which does Not say there is a supernatural world, but only says human models will always have the potential to need to be updated with changing evidence, so there is an open-ness to new information here that atheism as such does not always have and 2) We humans as individuals and as a species are a part of the Multiverse and participate (or not) in its creativity, we co-create with the Mulitverse, which is in line actually with Hasidic tradition where the universe is never complete but becomes more complete in its creation through human performance of good deeds - I like this idea very much - the creation of the universe is never "static" nor "done" but is open - to new ideas or models and to new ethical realities. An open, creative Multiverse which we humans co-create with - that is g-d, to me. One of the Hasidic names for g-d is "Ha makom" (the place) - the idea that the universe exists within a certain place and that place is g-d, or that g-d is the super-reality that includes the universe but maybe other stuff too (so consistent with the Multiverse notion). Also another Jewish name for g-d is "El Elyon" which can be translated as "universal god" - the divinity is there for everyone not just one group or another group. I think pantheism - properly constructed - nicely combines this "Ha makom" and "El Elyon" notions - the divine is the totality of all things which includes our notion of "Multiverse" but this notion may always be modifed as needed with new evidence, and this divine is universal, available for all who choose to co-create with it. The meaning of life? I'll go back to the Hasidics again - the meaning of life is to do good deeds, to help make creation more complete in so doing. That's all. It is simple and it is profound - "g-d" is the totality which is eternal creativity, a creativity available to all of us who choose to participate, so it is infinitely empowering to humans both as a species and as individuals. Be all you can be, and help each other, save one person and in so doing save the world - that is everything - that is Torah, that is pantheism. :)
we are trying to set up a pantheist community in Germany. I believe this is the only religion fit for the challenges of the 21st century. However, as Mary Jane pointed out, pantheism is not a fully grown religion but a project in the making.
4:34 "I think you could start from almost anywhere." And that, my friends is the essence of "pan" in pantheism. It's so nice she put it that way. Everywhere we look are forces working on matter and energy with relationships. We don't have to start from consciousness every time. We can start from possibly anywhere and find out about these relationships.
Mary Jane Rubenstein seems like a great person. I will listen and read to more of her content.
It's literally impossible to start from any other point but consciousness. Mustard seeds, or acorns, or gravity or atoms are all concepts that exist solely as encoded structures of information within consciousness. Indeed, everywhere we look are forces working on matter and energy with relationships. Yup, you hit the nail on the head. Everywhere WE look. You simply can't take the WE out of the equation.
The world doesn't belong to God but God belongs to the world and the world is God
My idea is that if the multiverse exists & each can be formulated as a wavefunction if you add them all up you get zero, i call it the Zero Sum Infinite Wave Function
Reasoning for why there is no multiverse? Seems right to me.
Totally on board with that. Oscillation (vibration) is at the core of all things as evidenced by the EM spectrum. Infinity equals one.
@@michaelcrean1456 The multiverse definitely does exist. If it doesn’t for whatever reason, our current understanding of cosmic inflation, the Universe’s beginnings, and mathematical equations relating to the Universe’s being are all wrong.
I have come to this conclusion in my life, not by reading or study because I didn't finish any meaningful study or school in life and I'm not a reader of books.
I do however do a lot of research on the internet and did do some drugs in my life and I feel that somehow my upbringing,the drugs and all the data I processed along the way
made me come to this understanding of what reality/conciousness/god must be.
I did watch a lot of Terence Mckenna and Alan Watts and think they might've been a huge influence.
Greetz from The Netherlands.
Pantheism is self-refutingat least all forms that claim individuality is an illusion caused by my mind. For according to pantheism, individual minds are themselves aspects of the illusion and can therefore provide no basis for explaining it. If the mind is part of the illusion, it cannot be the ground for explaining the illusion. Hence, if pantheism is true in asserting that my individuality is an illusion, then pantheism is false, since there is then no basis for explaining the illusion.
Google Isaiah 53. Written hundreds of years before Jesus as a prophecy about the coming Messiah.
It’s funny how I’ve had the same type experiences, through drugs, internet and watching videos such as those you mentioned and have come to this conclusion as well. Are you by any chance in your 20s?
@@leonkirkov I'm in my 40's
@@Lechuque 😂
@@milkshakeplease4696 … if you read your comments with an open mind and you might just see how twisted your comments made you look. That’s the hell religion does to a human’s mind. Look, our individuality is shaped by the complexity of the universe yet the complexity of this universe can be simply understood in pantheism. Now if ever a taught on pantheism brings “choice” to question, recognize that the choices people make are never without a cause. To think otherwise is like saying something comes from nothing. That’s impossible.
For a philosophy that is almost 5000 years old, this lady is now going to stich it together. With such a limited idea of its origins - she is going to be flag bearer for pantheism.
When my family asks me what I'm looking for in a woman to marry....this is the person I'm looking to marry. I've been looking for her everywhere.
You may find that such a woman doesn’t believe in marriage as an institution, so it may be easier to say this is the type of person you’d want to share your life with, have a (pantheistic?) relationship with.
I don’t know if there’s a specific word for such a relationship, but it’s exactly the type of relationship I’d also be looking for…a very, very tall order.🤷🏽♀️
Life, Life, Life; what else is there? what else am I? if not Life happening
I wonder how common similar ideas were in societies that had more free societies, before domestication (and class stratification) of first humans then non-humans by humans and now reaching the stage of a domesticated ecology. I wonder if societies that have been called primitive communism had similar ideas.
I think so and I think when theologians and philosophers have come across such ideas and ways of thinking (or derivatives of them) they have called them things such as animism by the Winners of History.
I just found out that I have been Pantheist person. Believer of the universe and nature
Pantheism is alive and well in the Rosicrucian tradition. It had to go underground in order to survive but it will be our future and lead us to new understands of our place in the universe, as stewards instead of dominators.
This woman is brilliant! Very well said
Alright, buddy! Throttle back! Get your feet back on the ground! You didn't discover fire!
This woman is delusional.
If everything is God then there can't be any distinction between good and evil.
Morals become subjective and no one could objectively condemn an evil person.
I worship a single, supreme god that does not deny the existence or possible existence of other deities. particularly Hinduism scriptures mention and praise numerous deities as if they are one ultimate unitary divine essence. I criticize Western theological and religious exceptionalism, focusing on a cultural dogma which held "monotheism" to be both fundamentally well-defined and inherently superior to differing conceptions of God. I view different deities to be of a unitary, equivalent divine essence.
For me a single god is central, but the existence or the position of other gods is not denied. I worship a single god from a pantheon of deities at a given time, depending on my choice, while accepting other deities and concepts of god. Its a middle position between unlimited polytheism and exclusive monotheism.
I have just stumbled to the realization that I am and have been a Pantheist, and I have been one for some time now.
Hinduism and some of its offshoots sort of encapsulate pantheism and panentheism pretty well.
She's all over the place, but I don't get the hate. Pantheist beliefs are the most peaceful beliefs I've seen. Must be the other ideologies hating.
Pantheism is a satanic lie. There is one God and one Saviour - Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
@@jefflyons6157 yes
Is Covid-19 part of pantheism?
@@BeOutstanding I think it's part of the move toward the antichrist. There's a chance that pantheistic ideas will be part of the antichrist religion.
@@jefflyons6157 I don't find it threatening at all. But as pantheism comes from satan, and as the world is going to be burned up and destroyed, it's not particularly smart to identify spiritually with nature. Much better to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who died for your sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures. The King James Bible is the truth.
The concept of bacterial agents of divinity has been explored in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace with the Midiclorians that empower individuals with the Force.
She made me wanna do coke listening to her, coke after 8 hours on shrooms
"The chief objection I have to pantheism is that it says nothing. To call the world "God" is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word "world."" - Arthur Schopenhauer
Also that the natural order of the universe is entropy. Ergo pantheism has to die.
@@jacobanderson2536 What do you mean?
@@angelusvastator1297 , well, pantheist like to examine the natural order. Water cycles, natural laws, physics and dynamics. How wonderfully they fit together to build up nature, our planet and even the cosmos. Yet thermal dynamics, which governs said systems, states that by entropy the universe will eventually run out of energy in it's expansion: ergo cold death. In sum, the god of pantheism will die because he is based on something that represents him, or her (or whatever), and that something that represents the god of pantheism will surely pass away. Furthermore, the god of pantheism is only a conceptual god. Meaning only as long as people are able to conceptualize him, does he exist. As opposed to Christian beliefs, whereby you have a personal God with a will and a tangible desire. The God that longs.
Absolutely, it only claims that all is perfect. Without explanation of why or how.
And Arthur Schopenhauer had the audacity to breath air while he was saying that! Why didn’t he question the air? After all air is a natural life sustainer off this world? I’m sure he also drank some water after he sent that comment through his butt hole. Why didn’t he reject all the water he ever drank? After all water is a natural life sustainer of this world. Maybe he never ate any natural food of this world to stay alive huh 🤔. Alastair Paisley, I dare you to reject all the natural life givers of this world I mentioned here and ask your imaginary grandpa god in the sky to sustain you and let’s see how long you will last! Idiots!!!
To develop a pantheism that simply defines God as coextensive with nature or the Universe is to fail to distinguish it from atheism. I understand and agree with the need to rescue the concept of God because of the damage done to society by the hierarchies established by traditional monotheism, and I also like the way she says that atheism simply concedes the concept of God to the monotheists. But it seems to me inescapable that consciousness will need to be the ground upon which pantheism is distinguished from atheism. And that ground will need to be developed by some variation of panpsychism that breaks down traditional mind/body dualism, erases the distinction between materialism and idealism, and presents a unified concept of material/consciousness.
I personally lean towards Pantheistic belief systems, because it makes sense.
Deism makes more sense. Nature is creation. God can of course permeate everything, but that doesn’t make everything God. Nature is God’s divine language. God is the creative force.
Our consciousness is god understanding itself, and sharing our ideas is kinda like neurons sending signals to each other. (Imo)
I've had a similar thought recently about comparing human society to a brain. In Meditations, Marcus Aurelius states that the intelligence of the universe is social. Whatever he truly meant by that, it's an interesting thought experiment to think of humans interacting as sort of sending signals to different neurons. That's probably not entirely analogous to the brain, but the ideas that come from the experiment might be interesting.
@@thomervin7450 we see this in ant colonies as well. all the ants together form one big intelligent organism in a way.
Just capitalize nature. And as we write and discuss, we will make it Nature to show that nature itself is divine. And we could even create a church, the Church of Divine Nature.
“…rather than a dude in the sky.” I love it!
Why not start with consciousness? With Being?
Makes sense, and I think we'd need immediate buy-in that not only are we conscious, we're also surrounded/enveloped by it. Her pov is concerned with this social aspect.
Hello, I have been very recently interested and learned about pantheism... steaming from a high dosage LSD trip in which an entity told me this, every one of us are gods, we all control our own lives.
I have had friends had similar experiences, has anyone here experienced things like this?
Slaying Immortal We are all our own gods in a sense that we are walking through infinity and creating our own discernible reality; but it goes deeper.
You are literally god having a subjective experience as a human being. Everything is god, including you. We are all god.
Look into Alan Watts if you haven’t. He is a British writer that kind of takes an ethnocentric approach to the manifestation of god/universe and reality.
Nope. I’m smart enough not to do drugs.
Never tried drug but I believe in what you are told. Read Conversations vs God by Neale you will learn more
That’s just Satan telling you what you want to hear to lead you astray. Doing drugs is the equivalent to kicking a door wide open for demons to enter, be careful. Jesus is the truth and he is ALIVE 🙏🏻
@@bbcbridge2076 Jesus did shrooms and created the religion to stop people from killing each other , the burning bush has DMT according to the Dead Sea scrolls
She has certain presuppositions: (1) equality, especially in negating speciesism and sexism, is the paramount virtue (2) exclusion and hierarchies are inherently bad. She takes these axioms and seemingly constructs her "God" and I am suspicious of this bottom-up approach. Not to mention, the casualness with which she dismissed our Christian tradition in the West.
My biggest critique of pantheism is that it leaves no room for a moral code. This is why pantheistic traditions of the East all ultimately conclude that goodness/evil is an illusion. The abuse of a child, for example, is not abuse: it just is. If that's a pill you cannot swallow, as I cannot, this isn't the worldview you should subscribe to.
Just read Heidegger. Being is prior to everything.
I think Spinoza was right to dump the traditional Biblical (Old Testament) version of God, but ...
Her entire view on religion is exctremly American centric. Her religious views has nothing to do about Europé or Canada or Mexico. She is exctremly bias in her view of how religion is operating in the Untied States and want to extrapolatet that on to Europé and the rest of the world.
No. There are always great minds everywhere who thought like this and its not accidental. Core european phylosophy: Platon himself. Asia: Hinduism America: Native americans.
And When I was a 17 year old girl in Hungary who knew no concept of god before, one day on a cornfield i got the idea that is in perfect synchronicity with what she said. Lots of examples, lots. Interesting.
To say that "Pantheism has a very poor history" is an incredibly euro-centric worldview, provided that you see pantheism as something more than the mere historical event of the word being first coined.
This is coming from someone who detests using the term "euro-centric". I would probably use "ignorant" instead but that is sufficiently vague to not convey the point.
‘Pantheism began in the 1800s with Spinoza.’
*laughs in stoic*
You think you are a thinker huh? Stop thinking and sit back and think about the reality of the current state of being.
Excellent discussion!
"bacterial theology" lol. Love it.
Aligning ones self to the nature of the universe.
The nature of the universe Is impersonal. There can't be any distinction good and evil.
This is where pantheism fails.
Morals would be subjective and no one would have any objective reason to condemn another for evil actions.
@@satanslayer9320 you're wrong, there is a distinction between good and evil. It's exactly why athism/matterialism fails and pantheism doesn't. god is the creating force of the universe and is present in every (living) thing. God is not separate from existence, because the universe itself is a living being. There is no god outside of reality itself, because by definition this would mean that god is not real. Also, it’s an unnecessary extra step in our thinking. We call the universe god because it has the following attributes: consciousness, omniscience (all-knowing), omnipotence (all-powerful), and omnibenevolence (supremely good).
Morality is an objective phenomenon, because morality comes from god and god is present in every human being. But, we cannot grasp the entirety of god, so we don't always have the right answers when it comes to morality and ethics. We cannot create morality; we test our moral rules with logic and real-world scenario’s and observe the outcome. The purpose of religion and philosophy is to teach us this morality, so we don’t have to discover it by ourselves entirely. We will never have all the moral answers, just like we will never have all the scientific answers.
Pantheism is just another facilitator of self-worship, isn't it
Pantheism gives an answer to "who created god?" because the big bang theory is the answer and the answer to the creation of the big bang theory is also god. We are all the result of an exploded star. And stars are living and there is even elements of stardust ìn our blood meaning we are all a "piece of god" or "born to be a star"
“Dude in the sky” seems to degrade the conversation. I agree with some of her points about the pantheistic view. However, it’s unfair to contrary points of views to start off with a dismissive perspective. I grew up a Christian and have become a pantheist/Taoist. I wouldn’t want anyone to debase my views. “Dude in the sky” is a cartoonish, and ignorant understanding of the Christian god. It is anthropomorphic, I agree, but no one really thinks that there’s a dude in the sky anymore. I would also argue that actually there are different concepts between Christians about god, whether or not they even mean to. Speaking like that actually hurts her credibility in the subject, and also makes pantheists look bad. Also, in either philosophy, humans are important, because either god or nature has created us. We want our species to survive and live on. That is the point of religion. Christianity has value, and it has good moral values. There is a lot of good that has come out of it as well. Let’s not disrespect it.
Also, the materialist view is inadequate in describing the universe. But that can be for another discussion.
my pantheist god is better than yours tho
Exactly, and this is the problem with pantheism.
perfectly stated in love with your composure
Worship of the created rather than the Creator I have read about that
I don't us the term god because it makes the Creator just one of those thousands of gods that man has created as a bases of their new religions.
you should read Ken Wilber SES ...
Absolutely loved this
Hitler was a pantheist and a animal rights activist. Cough*
No
Seems to be confusing the word with the concept that has been around for far longer than Spinoza. If you just substitute divine consciousness for "god" we can move on.
Bacterias...yes, I would blame the mitochondria for everything.
also theres a lot to be said about approaching pantheism as also a documentable evolutionary step in human concious its beautiful to grow and expand, the active evolution of man should of corse involve the active evolution of god.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Yahusha is the Mashyach
🙏🏻
Wow! What if I told you that Yahusha or Yehoshua was human like you and was a pantheist? I’m sure you’ll think I’m a lunatic. He was the son of God? Well so are you. He even said that. The question then now is; who is God. Some grandpa in the sky? Wrong! The natural universe.
@@ItsJulestoca You're obfuscating the truth. Nothing you said actaully makes sense or has bettered my life in any way. I suggest you read the gospels and stop getting excited about your own thoughts.
@@younghove01 it makes far more sense than anything in the bible
Can't decide if I'm a pantheist or a panentheist ,problem being is do you regard the no thing on the other side of the big bang as nature although the universe flows from it, using the emanation ideas of Plotinus,it itself has no point of reference in our universe so panentheism would seem to fit better?
I Am A Pantheist... I Made Lots Of Pantheistic Music About 2500 Song... I Love Pantheism... Everyone Is God The Good The Universe The Highests The Bests The Excellentests The Positive The Coolests The Perfectest The Almightyests... THAT IS POSSIBLE
If everyone is God then you can't condemn an evil person.
@@satanslayer9320 some are Good God Some Are bad God, everyone Is God, Everyone Is Good God But some also Bad
@@MadloX_Edward_Linse_Maddy How can you make that distinction though?
You can't objectively determine between good and bad if we're all God.
Another idea I have, extrapolated from Aleister Crowley's Thelema, is that the relation between Hadit the finite point (a Planck unit) & Nuit infinite space (the inertia mass of the Universe) is a Klein bottle
Why the hell would you call everything and the universe god? Just call the universe the universe.
I’m sure this woman is way smarter than I am but I think this line of thinking is ridiculous.
You probably have a narrow concept of god.
Pantheism in one form or another existed for thousands of years, Spinoza just gave it...well, another spin.
The Stoics. There are the champions of pantheism
The way she talks about Pantheism is beautiful
Oh gosh! Another one! Ok, throttle back there, sleepy stars. Get your head out of the clouds and come back gently down to earth.
In my personal opinion it’s either we are all schizophrenics or the spiritual or unknown interactions with a thing higher then ourselves is real but I am unsure because a lot of things don’t make sense.
Schizophrenia is a very distinct disease process with very distinct symptoms.
However I think our society may have historically underestimated the extent to which some of the same mechanism that are active in schizophrenia are active in healthy people and societies.
Paradoxically a lot of churches have actively pathologized most personal spiritual experiences, for example, because those experiences were outside of their control and may contradict the statements of their authority figures.
>i say this with wise reason
>And the Truth, its plain to see
>we know finite numbers count Infinitely . . . ∞
>its simple *proof* of The Infinite All/God/Godhead, The Almighty
>Yes, The Infinite All/God/Godhead & specks of god as is you and me... we
>All within the All is All we All Are. Peace.
Breakdown:
*ALL* (finite beginning-ending/changing matter) *within the ALL* (Infinite Beginningless-Endingless/Non-Changing Spirit) *is ALL we ALL are,* therefore you and I are smaller consciousness finite fragments/specks/part and parcel of god, but we are NOT the Supreme Infinite Spirit Realm Supernatural Consciousness Summit that is Godhead while we exist as lower awareness finite realm material beings. *Peace.*
Now do you realize you, I, we, are all specks of god.
*A Complete Macrobiotic Yin Yang Philosophic Understanding Combined With Its Practical Dietary Discipline Is Timeless Universal Law. All Other Teachings Are Incomplete. ― Herman Aihara, Michio Kushi & Master George Ohsawa* ☯ ✞ ∞
Would be? Pantheism exists today.
YES!!!!! THIS IS EVERYTHING!!!!!
Yes yes yes but where does morality and moral guidance fit in to 'nature'? And how do you account for the fact that human beings stand in such contrast to all other living things on this planet?
This is about feel good bunny rabbit philosophy, don't ruin it!
Your perception is exactly how I envision Panthiesm which is a concept that I realized before I knew there was a name for it. I love tour perfect description and overstanding. Now marry me
Realize the Krishna consciousness within
Bacterial and other organisms live together harmoniously observing nature you can understand what all is God creation governed by its invisible laws microscopic ,individual the mountains the gigantic oceans , the physical liver blood homeostatic balance ever where you see,still One power u derneath all
Pantheistic skip call name one person as god they call name all gods as people hereticism pantheism means everyone live a life is a group of lords pan spiritual talk all spirits from upper sky spirits switch all from under ground spirits
Why are we even talking about god in this day and age
Please explain near death experience to me ?
She doesn't know anything about Europé.
She doesn't come off as someone whos been there longer than 3 weeks at least.
We do not need a god to prove the universe. The natural world works quite well without an invisible magical illusion.
The natural world can't account for metaphysical concepts like logic, reason, mathematics, and morals.
In a naturalistic worldview things such as good and evil don't exist, therefore there would be nothing wrong for someone to go and rape, kill, and destroy.
Go to the Origin.., it's probability One that you have the correct identification association and it's only necessary to construct a reasonable and rational path of integrated proportions of Actuality.
What you could mean, without any identification labels or short hand references, is, in Principle alone, the constant standing wave-package in continuous creation connection, which is the Math-Phys-Chem and Geometry in Spacetime.., the observable cause-effect modulation mechanism of Time Timing in Eternity-now, The Principle.., it has every inclusive label from here-now in the Universe to Holographic Gaia..?
Because WYSIWYG is created by the Exclusion Principle the same cause-effect with the apparent properties of the Big Bang Theory/ hypothesis.
The reason never has and never will take hold is that its use of "god" is purely metaphorical. I don't think we need a replacement theology rooted in pantheism. We just need to move on and leave the concept of god in the bin.
It's not metaphorical, especially if the flavor of pantheism in question is monistic. I highly encourage you to further look into that. A monistic pantheist defines god as a unified everything, that everything that is, is god. The whole of reality, then, is god. Kinda hard for that to just be a metaphor. What it is doing is ascribing divinity to something "traditional" theism does not, because traditional theism is very attached to anthropomorphic gods. When you define everything as god, it's a god that can't be refuted in the usual sense, though you can simply say "I don't wish to call 'everything' god."
Some people legitimately do not need anything to call god and are content without making use of the concept, but this doesn't reflect the species as a whole. Research in biology suggests that religiosity in humans is influenced by genetics. It may be the case that the current iteration of the species simply can't move past concepts like god and asking metaphysical questions like "what does it all mean?" It appears these things may very well be in our nature, despite the presence of those who are absent of this apparent need.
Speaking as an agnostic atheist, I ascribe divinity to "everything' in the sense that there is no higher concept as it is all-encompassing. It's not a religious belief, there's no dogma, no supernatural hokum. And ultimately, I think that's why people don't accept pantheism. Not because it's a metaphor, but because they need their rituals and they need to believe in an anthropomorphic conscious force that looks out for them and enforces their morality, punishing those they don't like. Everything as divinity provides no comfort and doesn't cater to human beings, no prayer answering and no sparing from ill will, no absolute morality. You and I are cool with that, we don't need the universe to revolve around us, but it may very well be the case that the species in general has a natural inclination towards their petty personal deities.
Create your own world
@@matthewjonas8952 I assign divinity to all as it seems a good way to practice appreciation and gratitude... Things for which humans are hurting. Pantheism does provide comfort though I think, it assures us that death is an enemy and that everything that happens is the way things were always meant to be.
@@matthewjonas8952 Is not an enemy, I meant to say.
@@michaelricketson1365 I agree with you. Appreciation and gratitude have wondrous effects, and being able to accept existence as is, and even see a profound wonder in it, is very healthy. I don't call All that Is 'god', but being present with it is a major component of my spirituality.
so, are we supposed to pray to our substance matter? cuz i did that and it sort of healed my voice, so far, and i feel smarter. is this what pantheism is?
😂 I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not
@@mona-xf5mr i'm not.
@@onioni2815 wow well.. thats crazy. well it could be kinda like a different take on the law of attraction doing its bit in a different way, your thoughts or prayers in this case yielded the positive result.
@@mona-xf5mr yes, it makes me smarter most defintely. try praying to your substance matter.
@@onioni2815 will try it out
Working on the concept of God? What God is is a matter of opinion. Are you suggesting your opinion of God should rise above mine and push mine off the grid? The natural world, the universe, only exists because God exists. Everything known and unknown, small or big, is a mere expression of God’s life, God’s light, God’s energy
How can a 'Professor' of Religion have such woefully simplistic understanding of Monotheism? Has she read any theology regarding Trinity and creation beginning with Ireaneus?
Abrahamic faiths are bullshit
@@simpleguy38 wow very educated , I guess dismissing gradual evolution due to waiting time problem like what some people do are less intelligence demanding effort than for you to write this magnum opus of your comment lmao
Pantheism's worst nightmare:
The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
- Revelation 6:14
Christianity is just Plato for dumb people.
How long is a long time
01:26 "Divinity does not mean omnipotence."
How can we be sure nature is not omnipotent? That it doesn't just do what it wants?
01:37 "Nature doesn't just sort of just destroy everything and recreate stuff ...."
But it does! It does depend on what time and what scale we're viewing nature. There is some combination of cherry-picking certain aspects of the universe here. Yet another philosophical form of the naturalistic fallacy.
god was discrete machine and all matter is discrete robots consisting of god like particles. God's action is reduced Planck's constant.
I rebuke your lies and deceit in the name of YAHUSHA HA'MASHYACH AMIEN
It bothers me she doesn't care about truth and just worries that her concepts having more influence than conservatives monotheist. She seems to dream of designing a religion that would help shape the world in the political views she cares about. I find Pantheism wildly interesting and realize there is no doctrine, but most people seem to share core concepts that revolve around finding absolute truths rather than shaping a religion to their world views.
Uhh what world view do u have? What would you want for all?
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.@@EffYouMan
It's the force from Star Wars! My little toe is god bro
No we don't.
Ironic, in describing "God" in the universe etc, etc, she actually glances upwards! 😂
I believe she was moreso thinking things through at that moment and piecing together what she was trying to say 😂 but that's funny tho.
I think that "God" is like what Jordan Peterson mentions by the thing at the top of the value hierarchy, and so we automatically look to the top of wherever we are when trying to describe it. That would mean that we don't look up into the sky because of monotheism, but that even monotheism got that idea from intuiting the hierarchy. The sky is simply the open expanse that symbolizes the greatness of the universe, too.
I think the next level of things as god or nature is that we are nature and so in turn we are god. As nature works together with what it has then so can we has the human nature. Then when intelligence is applied we can make overwhelming positive choices to the betterment of all as a whole on our wonderful blue planet.
The problem with going back to a force or a microorganism as Devine is the result of this belief. (Where there is order and information we always find a mind.) The pantheistic explanation excludes this possibility of a moral law giver, or a “dude in the sky.” A force like gravity is a principal or law that behaves in a predictable manner. But why does it behave in a predictable manner, why is there •order?• (Order which we can write out in the form of a mathematical equation?) Because there is a mind in charge of it. Yes, God cannot be a force, for there is no •will• to do good or evil behind a •force• it simply acts as it does. There is no moral judgment there. You cannot get an ought from an is... Saying that pantheism is better than a monotheist who looks to a dude in the sky is actually a type of judgment. It is an ought. That ought is either a question of right and wrong or better and worse, which I think comport with one another. (A better judgment is one that is more in conformity with reality.) We make moral judgments all the time. You may say “the only judgment that is wrong is making moral judgments. There, that solves the problem.” Yet in the statement you would be saying making moral judgments is wrong while making a moral judgment and bam you’ve called yourself evil by making that very statement. There is internal incoherence of that belief. But the worse of the two is the fact that there is legitimate evil in the world and without a moral law giver there is no Devine judge for that evil. Murder without cause? Is that not evil? Any dictator you must willingly submit to, (if you are to remain consistent) any demand that seems unreasonable, any evil which you see in nature or in human nature would come from God because we are all God. This is what happens when there is no Ontic Referent or source of ultimate good. No spotless moral law giver.
The reason why it’s not taken serious is because you’re taking any Abrahamic religion and perverting it to this secular form because you personalize the personal God too
Much.