Kayaking Tips - Greenland Paddle vs Euro Blade
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- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2015
- I get asked this question a lot. Which is better? Pros and Cons. The truth is, they each have their strengths and weaknesses. Some love only one of the two. Others love both. I'm in this latter group. I like using each for its appropriate purpose.
The conversation of comparing the two can go on for hours, so in this video I just focused on the general points that differentiate these two paddles from each other.
For more info on the Greenland Paddle's origin, as well as technique and overall traditional paddling check out
qajaqusa.org/ - Massive source of info
www.greenlandorbust.org/ - Helen Wilson has excellent rolling videos and all sorts of info
www.kayakways.net/ - Turner and Cheri also are a great resource for all things traditional paddling and rolling
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Your review is what got me interested in the Greenland paddle. I tried a cedar one before buying one from Gearlabs. It's perfect for me as I'm older and weaker than most of the people I paddle with and allows me to stay with the group. The Gearlabs is comfortable and I've got no issues accelerating, bracing, turning etc... It's also more intuitive for me to use. I've only been paddling thee years and my channel name is Kidney Kayaker (Kidneys have failed so I'm on dialysis) Love your channel and I share many of your videos with our group.
Well done video, direct and to the point. 👍
Nice video, informative, accurate, well-scripted with no rambling on about what he had for breakfast. Wish there were more like that.
John Moore thank you, much appreciated. Cheers.
Mmmmm bacon!
Very good information. Helps a lot. Thanks!
Tombstone Ted glad it was helpful. Cheers!
Nice...loved the on the water shots during the talk on GP v E.....
+dunneryak Thanks!
The Euro paddle is also a reason why I have carpel tunnel....in windy conditions I had to feather the blades so that each blade face was not becoming a "sail." I look forward to using a GL design.....my biggest fear on a long trip I am planning (Ketchikan to Seattle) is being 100 miles out and not begin able to use my arms.....Good, well reasoned and shot videos. Keep them coming!
Good tips and so honest in giving comment. I agreed with you they're different tools for different occasions.
Wan ZalmanWZ thanks, much appreciated! Absolutely. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, and it comes down to preference and when you want to use each.
This is a good explanation. I was kayaking all day recently and the euro blade is just such a hassle to keep dragging through the water for extended periods of time, after 3 hours its already making your muscles stiffen up. I think Im going to buy some greenland paddles instead.
Considering getting a greenland paddle, thx for the info and tips
I want to like Greenland paddles, but for the last few years I have moved almost exclusively to a s/m wing that I can paddle all day with at a reasonable pace. Every now and then. I try someone's stick or a flat blade. The water spillage off the blade is so noticeable to me now and feels very inefficient for forward stokes compared to a wing. A wing also provides the best support hence they are used for paddling very narrow craft such as K1 and surfskis. A euro blade is really there as white water kayakers took up sea kayaking and wanted to perform all the fancy maneuvering strokes. The 3 paddle type overlap a certain degree, but I currently see it's as.....
Stick - 1 rolling. 2 maneuvers 3 forward stroke
Euro - 1 maneuvers. 2 forward stoke. 3 rolling
Wing - 1 forward stroke. 2 rolling 3 maneuvers
I can see that a stick is fun to play with and looks pretty cool
With patience, practice, and technique they can all work for all tasks, but the shape (and size) will have the last answer.
I can see that a stick is fun to play with and looks pretty cool :)
I use a wing almost exclusively, but with the exception of surfing as the wing sucks in a stern rudder. You can put it in upside down, in which case it is great, but getting out takes care and remembering to rotate it! The wing is amazing to roll with and excels for bow rudders in rock gardens.
I use a wing for every thing. Wild water racing , flatwater marathon and sprint. , Wild water trips and wave ski.
Thank you, that was clear and helpful.
risa bear wonderful to hear. Thanks for letting me know.
I found the very unobtrusive audio helpful for focusing on the content. Your obviously a home studio guy. Appreciate the effort. Thank you.
Great video thanks!
I like the Greenland paddle for paddling upwind. I don't have to feather the blade.
RE the commenter below who asked about getting wetter because the GL paddle has no drip-rings; I made my own by cutting them out of an old bicycle inner tube and stretching them over the shaft. They work great. You cannot fit store-bought rings over a GL paddle blade.
Trevor Keen interesting idea. You're right, I too really enjoy not feeling the wind on a Greenland paddle.
If you want to paddle all day with less strain on your body, you can also use a shorter euro paddle. Otherwise this is an excellent and (one of few) honest explanation of this matter. Most kayakers that review the gp say that it is absolutely the best paddle by far, but that is not the case...
Awesome , I think both it’s the smartest way 👌🏼
Was going to buy a Gearlab Kalleq/Ipik but just purchased a Inuksuk. Can’t go wrong with either brands.
Very interesting perspective! Sounds like novices should most often get started with a greenland paddle.
Just took out today for the first time a low angle blade,bent shaft Werner Kalliste paddle. LOVED IT. upgraded from an Aquabound FG stingray. what a difference! Now would the low angle blade be the choice for those who want to do long touring but also work fairly good playing in surf/swells? I guess those would be two different blades for two different tasks. Guess the only real solution is to have 2 blade type paddles.
Yep, two different blades for different tasks. Usually you'd want high angle and large blade paddles for surf/swells, so that you can get a lot of power on each stroke. The Greenland paddle sneaks in extra buoyancy along its entire length, making it ok to have less area at the ends but overall has lots of other pros in surf. A touring euro blade would not be my choice for playing in rough water. But it's perfect for long distance paddling. Glad you're enjoying the Kalliste. I've heard very good things about it!
Hello Kayak Hipster, Great explanation. Good shots. I am so glad I had the chance to paddle with you and see your skills live. Take care my frined, and keep the good promotion job.
The "theory" of the narrow, Greenland style, paddle blade seems to make sense. But back in early 1980s I was given a Greenland style paddle by the manufacturer and asked to evaluate it and write a review of it for Sea Kayaker Magazine. I didn't find that the theory held water (pardon the pun). I was at the time running a sea kayaking tour company here in Maine and was probably paddling only around 120 miles a week. But I used it for several months and so gave it a decent chance. Initially the narrow blade did seem to provide the equivalent of a "lower gear" but over time it seemed like energy output was about the same. The paddles's main drawback was that the narrower blade left something to be desired when a situation called for a powerful brace or an abrupt turn. In fairness it does seem to find favor with some paddlers so I guess it's sort of a try it and see sort of thing.
How is a standard low-angle paddle different from a Greenland? I have a Werner Camano and was trying to figure out the technical difference as, from your description, they seem pretty much identical in their function. Great video!
ok, so I have been considering getting one of the Greenland paddles...been using a 180 dollar werner paddle for over a year, fairly narrow width, it seems ok...but my question is: what is best for most new comers to touring kayaks? Most of us novice/beginners are doing plenty of flatwater paddling, camping, day trips with hours of paddling. It seems based on the pro's/con's as you lay it out, a Greenland paddle would be appropriate and maybe often even better for many of us relative newB's? My wife is joining me in getting a touring kayak, and I am debating on getting a Greenland paddle for myself or even for her. I am learning my rolls better this year, and the Greenland paddle looks fun for that too.
Can you do a another video on surfing sea kayaks?
Working on my first GL paddle now from a thick, straight stem of maple. Good material?
one little stupid question: don't you get more wet with a greenland-style? euro-style have those little rubber-stirpping-rings...
(excellent videos by the way - greetings from switzerland!)
You do indeed. Some make drip-rings for Greenland paddles. I just deal with knowing I'll have a bit more water on my lap. No big deal. Thanks, much appreciated!
Does a Greenland paddle work well for sit on kayaks?
What would you recommand for adventure racer? That mean i need speed, efficency, versatility and ergonomy.
Note that in adventure race we often use double paddle in a canoe. Have you tried the greenland paddle with one
Wing paddle, most efficient.
I sent you an email with these question before I saw the video - but they weren't answered here. When looking at GP's I see two options. One is construction with shoulders or not. The other is a straight tip or rounded tip. I was asking what criteria one would use to select those various choices.
Paul Chance Paul, got your note. Stuck at work at the moment. Will put together a full response a bit later. Thanks for reaching out!
QUESTION: What is the difference between the different tip shapes for greenland paddles?
Some are round, and some are almost flat.
The difference in surface area is next to nothing, so I guess maybe one kind of tip shape may cause air bobbles around the tip/blade more easily?
Wich tip shape do you prefer, and recommend?
Thanks for your videos :)
Marius Engelsen yep! It makes a difference, not extremely noticeable but over thousands of strokes it adds up. I discuss it in this vid. Let me know if that helps. ruclips.net/video/RFgzonSpHTg/видео.html
@@KayakHipster - thanks! :)
You and the other guys are saying you can't tell the difference. So in what way does it adds up after thousands of strokes? Is the difference mostly theroretical or aesthetically maybe?
Guess what I am interested in knowing is that if there is any difference in how forgiving the catch will be, in regards to making air bubbles during the stroke catch. If any difference?
Enjoyed your video. I found it very useful. How would you compare a Greenland to an Aleutian for distance paddling?
Alan Cohen thanks, much appreciated! I would not be able to say, I've only tested Aleutian paddles here and there, and not for long periods of time. I know some paddlers swear by them. Their ridges give them a different flow through the water. In the very short time I've tested them, they felt a bit stiff and heavy to me vs the Greenland paddles I'm used to, but that's just an opinion based on very short times using them. As always, I think time spent and preference come into play.
KayakHipster Thanks for the quick response. I haven't actually tried either yet. hopefully next year.
Alan Cohen absolutely, anytime. Let me know what you think when you get to try them out!
Cheers
Nice video but it looks like you use "euro blade"-technique with the greenlandpadle. I see no 45 degree angel when it cuts the water? You get less resistance and more support at the end of the stroke with that.
Totally agree! It was the first thing I noticed. Watch the Innuits. They paddle with more of a 'sweep'. Euro bladers 'dig deep'. This is an exercise in using the Greenland paddle with a Euro blade technique. But it is not the correct stroke for a Greenland paddle :).
Are you still pleased with the Gearlab paddles? I hear strong opinions in good and bad ways.
can you link to the specific Greenland paddles you used in this video? I like the carbon fiber ones for sure
Absolutely, you can find the Nutilik I used in this video by following this link - www.gearlabpaddles.com
If you decide to go for one of them, let me know, I can help with a discount.
Cheers!
Awesome man, thanks for the info. It will be a little bit before I buy one- I am just now getting into kayaking and purchasing my own gear. Borrowing other people's stuff has let me have a lot of fun, but I've had a lot of bad experiences using equipment not suited for the tasks I try and do with it! Thanks for the great videos!
Sounds good and let me know if questions come up when getting your gear. Cheers!
How can I get a discount on one of them paddles? I've been considering buying a Greenland paddle for a few weeks now, and I really like the carbon fiber ones they offer.
Either paddle is fine, but the GP is more natural. If you need to get somewhere quick you are extending the blade to really dig in and move the boat.
Do you have any recommendations on wing paddles?
Brandyn McKibben sadly I do not. I never use them, I can't tell you anything about them first hand.
I am a sea paddler who uses wings almost exclusively. My favourite on the sea are the Epic Mid Wing. This has an eliptical shaft so that you can tell the orienation of the blades - very useful when rolling - it is available with variable length and pitch. As with Euros, don't go too big and its is better to make more strokes with low force than a few high force strokes. Wings are very good for rolling too. The downside of wings is that they cannot perform good bow rudders as they get very "draggy", so I always carry a pair of Euros too. (Actually you can use them by inverting the blade but if you forget to re-invert it on exit you will be upside down) . If you lead groups and use wings (or GP) then it is important that your splits are Euros, the last place for someone to learn to use wings is in an emergency!
Having tried a GP, I felt it quiver and tremble in my hand during the power strike. I have had this confirmed by a professional maker of GP paddles. What is your experience, and management of this undoubted characteristic of a GP, please?
Brian Schulz from Cape Falcon explains that exact phenomenon, it's cause, and how to overcome it, at minute 3:19 of the below-linked video:
ruclips.net/video/QlbuVGtx3F4/видео.html
If it flutter/quivers/trembles you don't have the blade at the right angle in the water. Greenlands require you to enter the blade into the water at a canted angle and utilize it like an airfoil. If it's at the correct canted angle you won't feel the effects you are mentioning. I paddle exclusively with a GP
@@jamesstemmler7620 I’ve now been paddling GP for 2 seasons. No flutter. Wouldn’t change back.
If you can't cant the Greenland paddle, it might be a good idea to get more mileage with it before talking about it. Hint: it's a wing paddle for those that can use it well...
Enjoyed your video. Myself, I use only Greenland Paddles now and have for many years. I build between 100 and 200 of them a year in my woodshop.
One of your links in the description, Greenlandorbust.org... the girl with that webste, Helen Wilson, is a close friend of mine and has been my sponsored paddlers for nearly 7 years now. If you've seen her videos and DVD's, then you have seen my paddles :)
Cheers...Joe O'
That is amazing. I have watched Helen Wilson rolling extensively, so I'm sure I've seen plenty of your paddles then! Thanks for checking the video out, I'm hoping it'll be helpful in bringing more attention to the use of Greenland paddles as well as traditional paddling in general. Cheers and thanks for taking the time to comment!
The author calls the Euro blade a paddle with a blades with no angle. Obviously, an Eskimo paddle
is better. Progress has gone ahead and peoples realized that the angle between blades should be at a 90-70 degree , first to have less wind resistance (here the Eskimo paddle loses instantly!), Second and most importantly, to allow the large back muscles to be activated. As we see in the video, only the hand muscles are rowing.
A better comparison would have been between a narrow blade paddle and a wide (power) paddle. A greenland style paddle is very old, out dated technology. There are many reasons why they have a cult following. One of which I think is a false sense of being able to maintain balance in rough conditions. Bracing is how we keep upright in bumpy conditions. At some point a long paddle doesn't allow you to react fast enough to switch sides in bracing. Example: Surfski (very narrow and tippy kayak) paddlers use a relatively short paddle for this reason and others. Side note: A wing paddle is the most stable paddle in terms of bracing because of the vortex it creates. Once you have used a wing paddle it's hard to go back to a conventional paddle because it doesn't flutter. Much better grip on the water.Paddling with a greenland style paddle is kind of like paddling with a 2x4. Looks cool or NOT, but not very efficient. Can't wait to hear what the Retro-groutches have to say ! :)
GL outdated? Says who? Have you used a GL paddle in conditions? I love my Epic MW for both my surfski and my seakayak. I love my Euro in current, tiderace and in rock play. Just because you don’t rent out kayaks to tourists with a wing or a GL but a user friendly Euro doesn’t make either of the former “cult”.
I think what probably happened to you is that you briefly borrowed a GL on a paddle from a paddler next to you, were taken aback by the flutter that GL-beginners experience due to lack of technique (canted grip, etc.) and gave it back, “Not for me” (follows:”Outdated”😂), am I right? Sure, I had reservations about a GL my first time in conditions, but you may find that the GL offers a lot of bracing power if you try. Like with every sports tool that requires an effort to learn proper technique, Euro and Wing definitely included, the beginner or someone who is used to a particular other tool can be easily frustrated when confronted with something different, but outdated? Hardly and on the contrary. Go try a GL again, you may yet grow to like it (how about a Kayakid from Gearlab if you like surfing and conditions?), especially once you realize that you have joints that can actually hurt after 5 hours in the boat.😏
Cheers
yes the GP is very old technology it has evolved over thousands of years into what it is today, a highly functional tool for kayaking. it is also much shorter then a euro paddle, making it much faster to react for bracing, unfortunately the person in this video is using the paddle like a euro blade, it should be held much lower ( this makes it easier on your arms) your arms do very little work with a GP all of the power is done with the big musicals of tour torso swinging side to side.
Basically, this is only opinions not Science. A euro paddle that has the same capacity to catch water is more efficient. A significant amount of effort in using a Greenland paddle is wasted effort.this is due to the effort to paddle vs the efficiency of the blade to help propel the boat during the catch middle and end of the stroke
There's also the possability of using a shorter euro blade paddle if you're on the water all day...
A shorter Euro is usually used for a high angle stroke. The high angle stroke is an efficient, powerful stroke, usually not used for long distances, but rather for speed, or raw power. If you want to use less power throughout the day, smaller blades are recommended - less effort with each stroke. So smaller euros for low angle paddling or Greenland paddles usually help with long distance, lower effort paddling. Cheers.
when I started paddling the angle between the blades (Euro paddles) was 80 to 90 degrees. Nowadays, normally it is set to 30 to 45 degrees. This means that these paddles are not very useful for high angle strokes... But you are right, smaller, narrower blades will do the job...
Fred van Viegen you'd be surprised. Paddlers skilled with Greenland paddles can get powerful high strokes (the technique is quite different than an euroblade stroke) and gather speed quickly. I'd recommend taking a look at qajaqusa.org to see more info. I've seen some races in person and let me tell you, these paddles seem like they wouldnt have power or speed. But in the right hands they do.
Sorry I just paddle fun and exercise