Sven Ottke: Full Career Breakdown and Review
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Retrospective Boxing career breakdown and review for Sven Ottke. Former WBA and IBF World Super Middleweight Champion. Also known as "The Phantom" How good was he?
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Sven Ottke deserves credit for being a very smart boxer and as always tricky to face and likewise for having had a long championship run.
Also he had a very sucsessfull amature career and that is part of what reflects his PRO boxing days. However what really hurt his career and legacy is that it feels so tianted with the labels; "protected, no risk taker, boring style, never left his Germany and corrupt officials and judges". They have been often circulated during his career and even more afterwards so much that Ottke despite having 20 IBF title defences (shared amount record with Calzaghe) is not often regarded as one of the best.
Ottke was never an easy opponent, that is all right but he avoided a LOT of potential big matches because he never wanted to leave Germany...or even allow any judges that was not German to score his fights...and that comes from a world champion who is supposted to mostly just accept all judges unless there are some ones that are incompetent or proven rotten.
Lennox Lewis for example fought near all his big fights in the USA and had to rely on that the judges was faire (well the first Holyfield fight was a major BS but Lewis still never lost his judgment in the game).
But heaviest I think are his controversial decision victories; Robin Reid, Mads Larsen, Charles Brewer 1 & 2 and Glen Johnson that would have made him having 5 losses or
mixes with Draws so it is disputed to say he really is fully unbeaten in that sentence.
Again, that Ottke refused to defend his title outside Germany made it all so harder for his career.
This was excellent. U did a great job.
Thanks. God Bless.
Isn't it still unforgivable that him and Calzaghe never fought......two fighter both champions in the same division,,,both retired undefeated......
Such a shame it never happened. Would have been a massive fight at the time.
@@nordicwarrior5014 Imo it seriously tarnished both legacies. Who do you think would have won?
@@nunyafuckinbizniz Calzaghe by UD in a competitive fight. Similar to the Larson fight but with many many more punches thrown by Joe.
Pretty sure it was because Calzaghe didn't want to go over to Germany. Joe wanted a guaranteed points win in the UK, whether he won the fight legitimately or not.
@@LeeTalksBoxing Probably. Frank Warren would have done everything he could to get the fight in the UK and Wilfred Sauerland would probably have done the same to get it in Germany.
Appreciate you breaking down Sven "The Phantom" Ottke 🥊🔥
Did not know much about Ottke outside of the "hometown cooking, robbery, and protected fighter" narrative(s).
Watching your comprehensive video breakdown of Ottke's career and dispelling the fallacies opened my eyes and give newfound respect on this underrated and misunderstood ring legend.
The other reason I watched your video is because I have a Boxing blog.
I am in the process of writing a hypothetical project comprised of Super Middleweight greats from the past and present competing in a 12-man, single elimination tournament to crown the best 168-pounder (72 kg) of all-time (akin to the Super Six Boxing Classic Tournament from a decade ago but roided up).
Ottke is one of the names in the tournament and I randomly drew his name to face "Simply The Best" Chris Eubank in the second match of the first round (the first being a matchup between "The Celtic Warrior" Steve Collins vs James "Lights Out" Toney).
Thanks again and I will look to your video as a reference once I get to the Eubank-Ottke match
Thanks bro I appreciate it. Sounds like a good idea.
@@nordicwarrior5014 How good was Steve Collins ?
Possibly a good video if possible please!
@@barrymurphy402 Will do at some point. God Bless.
The German Warrior.
Yep very underrated IMO. God Bless.
Anyone who retires undefeated is agreat fighter in my books
God Bless.
Carl Froch is a Hall of Famer now, Sven should be in with a shout, he probably doesn't even care though, low ego guy, nothing to prove, retired happy and with his health in tact
Froch being in the HOF is a hilarious joke. The guy did next to nothing compared to fighters like Ottke and Michalczewski, he was just born in the right country and knew all the right people. God Bless.
His boxing style was quite cautious at times.
No wonder since his slogan was: Boxing for me is not getting hit!
And who can blame him.. being an amateur boxer and later fighting bigger, younger and stronger guys most of his life.. but his heart and mind were one of a professional.
I agree. God Bless.
Don't know how I missed this, it never showed up in my sub feed. Looking forward to this.
Thanks bro. Yeah RUclips have been hiding my vids again it seems lol.
Nice post nordic. Wasnt there a decent HL video on him at some point? I cant find one decent HL video of him the pros, do you know of one?
I had one on my channel a while back. Deleted it though. May make another one at some point with better quality.
Nice, would like to see it. Who would you compare him to most style wise historically and or presently? Or, what elements of other fighters are similiar to Sven?
Hard to say. In many ways his fighting style is similar to GGG and Kovalev with the way he uses faints and throws a reverse one two to shock his opponents backing up straight. He's also similar to guys like Arthur Abraham and Sturm the way he uses his high guard and fights in bursts. He had much quicker feet than all of those guys though but not as much power. Great fighter IMO very versitile.
I was looking forward to this! 🤘🤘
Great fighter, easily a top 3 all time super-middleweight.
I agree. God Bless.
@@Bb-pw1zi If Ottke is a fraud, then what does that make Roy Jones or Carl Froch?
@@Bb-pw1zi Froch got the shit beaten out of him by a 42 year old, weight drained, shot to pieces Glen Johnson HAHAHAHA Who in his prime was schooled by Ottke. F**cking Jermain Taylor and Pascal HAHAHAHA those are really your examples? Pathetic. Ottke had 21 title defences (all time record at 168) and beat numerous top ten contenders, Froch lost his 3rd defence after getting 2 gift decisions and a come from behind stoppage against a middleweight in his title run, absolutely pathetic. Imagine being that stupid that you would even dare to suggest he had a resume even close to Ottke's.
@@nordicwarrior5014 But Froch did have completely legitimate wins over Bute and Dirrell and scored a legitimate stoppage victory in the 1st Groves fight because "you can't play boxing". Put some respec on Carl's name lol.
@@LeeTalksBoxing LOL.
You can even argue that Ottke resume is better then Calzaghe's
I mean was Joe's best opponent Mikkel Kessler really that much better then prime Mads Larsen? I don't think so
Ottke also beat Mundine and Johnson,who were better fighters then say Sheika and Woodhall
Ottke also beat prime Charles Brewer,When Calzaghe fought him he was coming off a stoppage loss to Antwun Echols
Fair points. Calzaghe had a lot of problems with that version of Brewer too. From what I remember it was a close fight. I actually think Larson at his prime could have outboxed Kessler but may have struggled with Kessler's size and power late on. Kessler was a huge super middleweight and had serious power and a granite chin despite being very flawed technically. I think Ottke being far past his prime may have made Larson look a bit better than he was but he certainly was good.
@@nordicwarrior5014 And just a few weeks after the Ottke fight,Larsen returned to germany and schooled the at that point unbeaten european champion Danilo Haussler,which in my eyes(a teenager back then)made him a total badass LoL
@@tomdewyn5689 Yeah Larson was a bit underrated for sure. He was one of these guys who would have been considered a master Boxer if he was western.
@@mmldtop6005 Wrong on all accounts. Ottke retired in 2004. He fought Larsen in 2003 when Larsen was 44-1. Kessler had done next to nothing at that point with most of his fights being at middleweight and he wasn't relevant at 168 until well after Ottke retired. Also stop lying, Johnson was coming off 4 straight wins in a row before fighting Ottke. His only losses prior to that point were a stoppage on his feet against Bernard Hopkins which was at middleweight where Johnson was weight drained to within an inch of his life, and 2 highly controversial disputed decision losses against Merqui Sosa and Joseph Kiwanuka. So in reality he only had one loss and at his natural weight division was undefeated. Please do your research before you comment and get your facts straight. God Bless.
@@mmldtop6005 You are dangerously stupid. First of all learn how to type properly. Secondly, nobody gives a shit about "ring magazine rankings" nor were they ever mentioned once in the video or in any comments. Complete non argument. Thirdly, you never watched a single Sven Ottke fight and even if you did you are too much of a special spastic to know how to accuratly score one. Fourthly, I already adressed the "people say he had 4 losses" nonsense in the video and exposed them as complete lies using video evidence. I have full broadcasts of every single one of Ottke's title fights and can do round by round film studies to justify every single point. Fithly, Johnson went on to utterly destroy some of your so called legendary hall of famers and had a long, accomplished career which included many title fights long after his one sided loss to Ottke. So again, stop lying, do your research, stop making non arguments and stop being a moron.
Thanks again - I used to believe some of the Ottke myths but when I watch some of his fights my only criticism of him would be that he was a tad dull to watch and the fights themselves were a bit of a slog. Some of that is down to the opponent though.
In terms of ring generalship, fundamentals, technique and defence in particular he was very, very good. If he'd sat down on his shots a bit more he could have ended up with 10-15 KOs out of 34 instead of 6 out of 34.
One to ponder perhaps is...would Ottke have been an absolute machine at 160? Was his optimum weight probably some sort of 163/164 catchweight as you're right that he looked like someone who could make 168 with room to spare.
Yeah he was never a big man for 168. Weird thing about it though is he had several fights at lightheavyweight before moving back down to win the title. I think he was wise to fight at a weight he made easily because he had very good stamina and was well conditioned, having a decent amount of body fat and was built to fight.
@@nordicwarrior5014 sure, people overshoot the runway on the bodyfat thing. Too little is just as dangerous as too much in terms of stamina and ability to fight at a decent pace. Guys like Ottke and Calzaghe were on the right side of the line in that respect, the bodybuilder look is great if you're trying to impress the ringcard girls but not the best for a 12 round title fight.
@@dazpearce2096 Absolutely bro. You either train for a Mr Universe contest or you train for a fight.
@@nordicwarrior5014 speakin a witch I just saw that Jorge guy with the Giant Gonzalez muscle suit. Thanks for the pointer I cried with laughter.
@@dazpearce2096 Yeah that was hilarious LOL.
I watched all his fights back in the day. He was skilled and low output like a sneaky old trailhorse. Thought he got a few decisons that he didn't deserve.
You mean low punch output? From what i've seen his punch output was very high, often considerably higher than his opponents.
Very good video
Good research & breakdown Nordic, and great that you get the enjoyment you do from putting these out for your subs, for us to enjoy - thanks! Sticking with just his fight with Glen Johnson should make Ottke's critics rethink. Re the people you mention who defend Floyd and Ward for not travelling to fight, - I'd say they are "Floyd" & "Ward" fans as opposed to "boxing" fans per se. Champions worthy of the name - and certainly worthy of a serious historical legacy fought away from home, - that Ottke didn't - and I take on board your explanation of his probable reasons for choosing that path, I guess will inevitably be viewed a certain way, albeit maybe for the wrong reasons? You seem to accept that he would have been competitive v Roy Jones & James Tony, - though probably coming up short, - no shame in that! And your point that he may have been ahead of the pack in understanding the risk of robberies against fighting outside Germany is taken, - its a business after all, so he protected his business interests, ala Mayweather style - though Floyd took it to obscene levels in all areas IMO. Don't be too surprised if future generations re-evaluate Mayweather by the same standards, - I sure hope so. I don't have a horse in this race re Ottke, I'm neither for or against him, just trying to throw a few hopefully impartial comments in based on your analysis. Good job! Cheers and keep em coming, - and hint, hint, . . . that fantasy Frazier vs Holyfield fight ;) God Bless.
Thanks bro. God Bless.
@@nordicwarrior5014 My (our, i.e your subs) privilege, - thanks for the work you put it and importantly - your own independent perspective, which as one poster noted is always refreshing, God Bless - Gus ;)
You mentioned a few names for a fantasy fight, I think it would've been really interesting too have seen Sven Ottke against a young Jeff Lacy around 2004/05 ish.
Lacy would have chased shadows all night long
Yeah I would have liked to have seen the Lacy fight too. I think Ottke would have outboxed him and won on points, Lacy's heart and power would have made it interesting though. Ottke by a wide UD perhaps surviving a late scare.
Ottke was a good boxer. He definitely would have beaten Jeff Lacy. Probably an 8-4 type of fight. Many people came to Germany and simply were out boxed. Many people claim robberies. Let's be honest they just lost close fights. Robin Reid can only claim robbery. Everyone else is just a sore loser.
Andrew Golota Career Breakdown and Review???
Good idea. God Bless.
HatmanStrikesBack did a career review for Andrew Golota... I really enjoyed it personally
@@Midnight-ot3oi I might check it out.
@@nordicwarrior5014 it was really good and it involved in and out the ring events...
Great video mate, Ottke has being treated scandalously by UK & US pundits alike for years, forgot just how much of a prick Duke Mckenzie is, shocking commentary in that Reid fight.
Thanks bro. Yeah Duke Mckenzie's commentary was shocking for most fights back in the day,
No need for such language!
But why didn't Sven fight Joe Calzaghe and why didn't he fight outside of Germany.
Frank Warren refused to negotiate with Sauerland and every time he was asked about that fight he shot it down immediately. Joe was interested in the fight but wanted it in the UK and refused to go to Germany for it despite that being where the money was and Ottke being the genuine champion. Joe was the better fighter, but the politics of the time prevented him from proving it.
@@nordicwarrior5014 I'm pretty sure it would have made just as much money in the UK if not more and they both could have chosen a neutral country like America to fight in.
@@mrt445 The money was in Germany. Way more interest on German TV than in the UK. Joe was not a draw in those days. Ottke was.
@@nordicwarrior5014 Really?? I thought people barely knew who Ottke was, I remember that era clearly. I'm sure Calzaghe was more famous in the UK than Ottke was in Germany. I also remember Joe saying that he didn't want to fight in Germany because he believed that Ottke was gifted wins by German judges. Not saying I believe Joe but he pointed out 2 Ottke fights that he thought Ottke had lost.
@@mrt445 Ottke was a star in Germany. Joe became a star a couple of years after Ottke retired but not before.
No idea why I can't reply to your comment, but just to confirm, Tilleman warned Reid for throwing a right hook with the knuckle part of the glove & hitting Ottke. There are so many clips of this available, it's a touch embarrassing that you don't admit it.
There's a reason why this refereeing performance is rightly held up as one of the very worst ever.
You need glasses.
@Mark Warburton The deduction wasn't for a headbutt dummy. Reid jumped at and threatened the ref after he was being pulled up for his constant spoiling. Also no there was no punch landed. Get an eye test.
@Mark Warburton Nope. I just say what I see and not what I am told to see. I know the cognitive dissonance is hard for you to deal with but the truth will set you free.
@@nordicwarrior5014 oh give over ottke got the mother of all Germany treatments in that Reid fight haha
@@calumgallagher2095 Please learn the rules of Boxing before commenting.
pls do edwin valero next mate
He's coming.
ruclips.net/video/Wo-3XrU1C3g/видео.html
@@nordicwarrior5014 thank you so much for this brother
@@eazygamebred7980 No worries. God Bless.
His pull counter is clean
Sure is bro. God Bless.
God bless you brother. ☘️
After watching 5 fights, this guy and the refs that presided his fights were bums.
Clearly you are utterly clueless about the sport of Boxing. May I suggest you follow Golf instead?
🙏 ❤ 🥊
God Bless.
@@nordicwarrior5014and you my brother
I appreciate the effort here, but no, Reid was not treated fairly in that fight. I'm an American and don't give a shit about either of those guys, but you conveniently skipped over (1) the knockdown, (2) Ottke headbutting, (3) Ottke turning away from Reid forcing him into some of the shots that caused him to be penalized and (4) Ottke's complicity in the whole charade, constantly asking the referee for help. I'd invite anyone to watch the fight without volume and see what you think.
It would have been better for Ottke's reputation had he lost this one as he should have. He could point to his age, passing of the torch, etc. But it brought the entirety of his career into the spotlight in a very negative manner.
You should really learn the rules of Boxing before you comment.
@@nordicwarrior5014 Appalling biased commentary from you - and yet you are calling out UK commentators for the same. The fact is, the fight was fixed, and Tilleman was paid off. Continuously calling for non-existent fouls against Reid. Warning him at one stage for punching Ottke in the face. The 'low blows' you are referring to was once, and that was when Ottke jumped a foot in the air and a body shot hit him below the beltline for obvious reasons. The ref did not call a knock down for Reid - I'll have to watch it again, but it would not surprise me if he warned Reid for that as well. Ottke kept turning his back on Reid deliberately as Reid was throwing punches. Leaning in with his head on Reid and then complaining he was the one that was being butted. I could go on - but given how any sane boxing fan knows what went on in that fight, I don't really feel there is any point with you.
@@FakeShempz Hold up a second.... Tilleman was paid off? Wow, just wow, 19 years later and you of all people have aquired proof / evidence that a referee was paid off thus proving match fixing. So I assume you have contacted the German Boxing commision as well as the IBF and WBA as well as the police and any day now the result of the fight will be overturned to a no contest? Man you must have done an amazing amount of investigative journalism and must have some serious connections and intel. I await your full extensive presentation proving what you say.
The defenders of the referees actions in 0ttke bout with Reid should be ashamead. Facts are there for all to see 0ttke was an over protected
@@keithcampbell6806 Show me proof of your accusations?
I'm not a big follower of Sven Ottke so please take this as a chance maybe to educate me but I watch Robin Reid fight in full back in the day and I felt like that was the most blatant cheating via the referee... I still think that nothing comes close to that! Not even Russell Mora refereeing Abner Mares vs Joseph Agbeko was that bad! Sven Ottke never fought outside of Germany too...
Why should he fight outside of Germany? Give me one credible reason.
@@nordicwarrior5014 first off, Thanks for replying. In my life I can't remember any certified champions who never fought abroad except Floyd Mayweather(he was the cash cow)! Maybe I'm forgetting someone but both Klitschko, Andre Ward, Canelo, Ali... unless you go back to Rocky Marciano or something like that, I can't name anyone! Robin Reid isn't even that good and he dropped Ottke and it wasn't scored a knockdown, Ottke cried to the ref in that fight about 100 times! I don't know for certain but let's be really if Ottke rematch all his close fights away (and he had a few fights) would he still be a champions? He was protected more then fighters now! I can't name a fighter who is more protected in recent off the top of my head! Personally you might think his underrated but I think he is a total disgrace and a stain on boxing history! Agree or disagree I respectfully disagree with you my brother!
@@nordicwarrior5014 just incase I made any grammatical or spelling mistakes I'm sorry in advance... I'm dyslexic af lol
@@Midnight-ot3oi Fair enough. I just hold every fighter to the same standard and if its ok for Floyd or Ward to stay at home then its ok for Ottke too in my opinion. God Bless.
@@nordicwarrior5014 Ward has fought outside the US in the early part of his career. But Floyd has not! And I don't hold either of those fighters as high as others in my humble opinion... I hold Lewis and others like him a lot higher!
Nice fighter, but STILL arguably the most protected fighter in the history of the sport.
I don’t think the “Western media” and fans don’t go after Ottke, per se; it’s just the fact that many of the refs/officials will make crazy calls (such as the accidental head butte that was stopped early, even though Ottke was winning.) His “win” over Robin Reid will forever taint his legacy, IMO…Ottke should’ve just bit the bullet & came out of Germany, come to the U.S. & let the Americans see his skills in real time
Nah, sorry but the referring in the Reid fight was disgraceful! BBC commentary or not!
Please learn the rules of Boxing before commenting.
@@nordicwarrior5014 😂😂😂
@@jozefable Also, stop dressing like a woman and read your Bible. Repent and turn from sin, trust in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. God Bless.
@@nordicwarrior5014 😂😂😂
This dude is a fraud/fake, bogus, protected way too many "gift decisions". I totally disagree with you on this.
You never watched a single fight of his. Be honest.
@@nordicwarrior5014 I have watched a few of his fights, but before I continue the previous post I made was extremely harsh and for that I do apologize for that post. I think that if he fought out of Germany a little more he would get more respect in the eyes of the casual boxing fan. Calzage, Fury, Lewis heck even Tyson and Joshua traveled out of their comfort zone to test themselves.
@@garywhite2049 Fair enough. I agree btw that fighting on the road is important and its a real test of character. Although my argument has always been that Eastern European fighters are often held to a much higher standard in regards to that. For example American fighters almost never get criticised for fighting at home even if they do it for their whole careers.
@@nordicwarrior5014 I agree, that is not mentioned enough I have more respect for American fighters who fight outside the US.
@@garywhite2049 Calzaghe travelled to the US against a past his prime RJJ and 43 year old Hopkins. Apart from that he remained in Europe
Lost to Larsen!
I disagree. But a very competitive fight.
His fights were fixed, he was a very limited boxer....ottke is everything wrong with boxing
Prove it.
@@nordicwarrior5014 who the fuck are you for me to prove anything to you