@@MartintheTinman The 50c fare is obviously a temporary trial. Victoria's fare reduction was presented as a permanent change. No one's doubting that the fare will go back higher than 50c again.
It’s useless to provide fare reductions without increases in off peak frequencies . A train to and from airport every 30 minutes is ridiculous together with the lack of security measures and reliability which is horrendous . Also as mentioned the rail bus and ferry system are grossly un coordinated
@@tcookiem I doubt it. The fare will go down to zero, if anything. In my opinion.Giving a benefit to the public is easy. Taking it away requires an expenditure of political capital that no party, in my view, will be prepared to pay. Public transport is already heavily subsidised. Costs are covered in Tokyo, but that situation is quite different. Yesterday, Sunday, I paid 87 cents (half normal) for a trip from Bayside to South Bank Station. Already cheap. But I, like you, may be wrong. The future will decide. I can't speak for the buses that transport more people than the trains.
Yeah, the off peak frequencies are so important, and so far behind the mark here in Brisbane. I reckon the disconnected leadership and the infighting between BCC who run bus services and QR who run train services is also a huge part of why that per capita usage stat is so low.
Our bus network is not really co-ordinated with the rail at all. It's a core reason as to why Perth does so well. The level of co-ordination between bus and rail is incredible. The biggest issue here is that there is a culture of single seat journeys, resulting in an excess of bus routes that run through to the city. We have what are functionally suburban feeder routes that run around all the little local nooks and crannies of a suburb, and then instead of dropping those people off at a train/bus station where they can catch a higher capacity service, they just run into the city themselves.
@@91Caesar this. this is what i find weird in brisbane , that you ride a bus with maybe 5 people on it all the way into the city , rather than routing to a train station , its weird.
Not just off peak frequencies but also frequencies in the counter-peak direction. Whilst trains into the city are every 5 - 10 minutes, heading the other direction you still have to wait half an hour to an hour. It’s even more annoying when you have empty trains out of service going that same direction. Just seems like a waste of a service.
@@webapple1there are several reasons but the main ones are 1. the lack of bus-rail interchanges 2. the lack of off-peak frequency for both trains and buses 3. the train network built before the modern city and road network means rail stations not on a main road but in the side streets in the suburbs 4. Travel time comparison
@@ryancheng9591 having busses crowd the cbd makes 0 sense at all , the insane traffic it causes and you see 1 person on it , they should go from train stations
That’s only because Perth prevented a bottleneck by sending the Mandurah line underground and through running it with the Joondalup line in the first place. If Perth hadn’t of built that underground section, then those really good frequencies wouldn’t be possible due to bottlenecks at Perth station. Brisbane is playing catch up here.
Same as almost all of Sydney Trains - frequencies of every 14 mins off peak from memory. A great start, but so close to true "turn up and go" off peak frequencies of every 10 mins or so.
1. Off-peak wait times: Sunshine Coast line only a train every 90 minutes - hence a car clogged up Bruce Highway in the northern suburbs. 2. Getting more people to use the rail network: later this year a six month trail will be conducted with the maximum fare being only 50 cents.
@tangiers365 No, it's the old line running through the SC hinterland with a very poor off-peak bus connection. The proposed SC line will not be up and running for many, many years.
@@aussiebloke51 That is caused by the single track line and sharing with freight trains. I do still think they could probably do better than 90 minute services, even with the single track, but they are slowly duplicating and straightening the alignment.
This is a great and much needed project. But before getting too excited about its ambition, remember it was first proposed in 2010. Then scrapped by Campbell Newman for the BaT Tunnel Proposal. Before that was scrapped and CRR revitalised. The modelling back in 2010 said it should be built by 2016 to keep up with growth at the time. I’d argue that CRR is a bare minimum upgrade, and a decade late at that. Ambitious would be dusting off the Brisbane Subway proposal, expanding the single line plan to an actual network, and getting on with building the first line that had had a rough alignment proposed many many years ago.
@@jaydenanders9814 Back in 2010 the government of the time put together the Connecting SEQ 2031 plan (link below). It included a proposed subway from Hamilton to Toowong, Heavy rail in the North West Transport (Trouts Rd) Corridor, busway extension to Chermside and Carindale and beyond, Sunny Coast Rail, Cooloongatta Rail, expanded bikeways etc. IIRC the Cross River Rail Wikipedia has the basic details of the history of CRR to BaT to CRR 2.0. The basic outcome is that political bullshitting cost public transport in Brisbane at least a decade worth of progress. cabinet.qld.gov.au/documents/2010/jul/connecting%20seq%202031/Attachments/Draft%20Connecting%20SEQ%202031.pdf
@@jaydenanders9814 it is a proposed underground metro rail line running from Hamilton Northshore to UQ/Toowong via Bulimba, Newstead, Albert St and West End.
After CRR, there next big Brisbane railway project lined up is a metro from Indooroopilly or Toowong to the airport via places like West End, the CBD and Bulimba. It was first scoped out under Bligh. I think they want to complete more of the Sunny Coast duplication, Maroochydore line and the Gold Coast heavy rail and light rail lines before pushing on with it.
Really enjoy your Sydney related videos, but it's awesome to see you starting to do other cities and regions too. Australia is building a lot of interesting transport infrastructure at the moment!
The issue in Brisbane is that most lines have a bottleneck at both ends. For example, the Cleveland line can only run eight trains per hour in the peak direction because it shares downtown tracks with (notionally) three other lines, and these downtown tracks can only carry 24 trains per hour. But also, the Cleveland line can only run eight trains per hour because the sidings at Manly and the single track beyond can only accommodate eight trains per hour (if half short turn via the sidings). All the other lines are similarly constrained at both ends. These bottlenecks are most of the reason that off peak frequency and counter peak frequency is so poor. And they are hard to fix because the benefits of fixing any one bottleneck is limited (by other constraints on the same line) and is mostly of benefit to off peak services. Cross River Rail is no different. It won't actually lead to very much extra peak service because it only fixes the downtown bottlenecks, and the suburban constraints will remain. But it does remove a constraint from multiple lines in one fell swoop, and that's significant. With CRR, other improvements elsewhere in the network will deliver immediate benefits. And that probably makes those other improvements more likely to happen.
Cross River Rail as you say is a necessary stepping stone towards a better more functional network, but it isn’t a hammer blow like some are making out. There are a host of other projects enabled by having cross river rail in place, including: -the direct Sunshine Coast line -Brisbane Subway -flagstaff line -northwest transit corridor (trouts road) -Gold Coast faster rail The lines that are capacity-constrained as you mentioned are: -Cleveland (though you could spark the dual-gauge line and have an express route with some trains terminating at Murrarie if you wanted more than 8 trains per hour) -Shorncliffe (a super easy duplication or just install a turnback at Sandgate) -Doomben (a simple crossing loop between Hendra and Clayfield would give you 6th which is all you will need) -Airport (impossible to fix without major construction but I have suggested before that a simple duplication from International Airport to a new stop at DFO would get you 6 trains per hour9 -Beerburrum to Berwah duplication needed -Springfield/Ipswich requires one simple additional crossover at Darra then it could run UP_UP_DOWN_DOWN which would remove the merger before the city and increase overall capacity on the western line
@kyletopfer7818 also, Park Rd to Kuraby and Northgate to Petrie are heavily constrained by interling express and local services. The options are: to run GC and Caboolture / Nambour trains all stops in the constrained portions. Add a number of passing loops to both segments, which would allow higher frequency express, but would leave the local trains at very low capacity. Quad both segments.
@kyletopfer7818 also, Park Rd to Kuraby and Northgate to Petrie are heavily constrained by interling express and local services. The options are: to run GC and Caboolture / Nambour trains all stops in the constrained portions. Add a number of passing loops to both segments, which would allow higher frequency express, but would leave the local trains at very low capacity. Quad both segments.
@@p1mason there is absolutely no doubt to me that the NWTC/trouts road corridor would be the answer for Sunshine Coast trains, it would cut 15 minutes maybe more off current journey times and allow you to service a whole new catchment rather than waste money on quad tracking to northgate. For gold coast trains I think they should push for the feds to build a new 160kmh tunnel from Dutton Park all the way to either Kuraby (if the Kuraby-Beenleigh Quad goes ahead) or to Beenleigh; with an interchange stop at Mt Gravatt to the busway. The feds can call this their first High Speed Rail to the Gold Coast, it would cut heaps of journey time off and bring the entire SE busway catchment within a much shorter commute of the city.
Cross river rail and Brisbane Metro is a good "Start", I would say. There is still a lot more work to be done, such as expanding the Metro to Capalaba via Carindale as well as all the way along Gympie Road to Carseldine/Bracken Ridge via Chermside. This could be achieved by adding a busway as part of the Northside Road Tunnel as well as utilising the newly built Northside Transitway.Though they are trying to avoid, sooner or later we will will have to build the rail connection along the North West Transportation corridor to help with the increased services from the future sunshine coast line. Speaking of that, until it reaches the full length to Maroochydore, we do need a rapid bus service stopping only at future station locations on the coast. looking back into Brisbanes southside and we need to send Metro along Mains Road right down to Browns Plains with stops at QSAC, Sunnybank, Altandi Station. We need to duplicate and extend the Doomben line to Hamilton (and eventually, all the way across the river to the south side/Logan and then across to Richlands as our own suburban rail loop). Brisbane Metro could service Brisbane Airport directly using the road tunnels. Almost every station on the cleveland line needs an upgrade and between Wynnum and Cleveland, it needs duplicating. Also instead of sending the G;Link to Gold Coast Airport, just send the tram to Varsity Lakes and then extend rail to the gold coast airport. Also speaking of the Gold Coast Trams, we should really extend them from Helensvale to Coomera via the theme parks. Also send the Citycats to the Cruise Terminal
@@shraka the bus is only tempoary until it gets built and keep in mind most sunshine coast residents still work on the sunshine coast so a busway may actually make sense for one seat journeys.
@@electro_sykes Last time I checked a dedicated busway has never been upgraded to a tram or metro. It just doesn't happen. They're planned to be upgraded but never are Trams are more comfortable, more environmentally friendly, safer, usually cheaper to operate and scale a lot better. One seat journeys can be very inefficient. If transfers are designed properly they can be very quick and comfortable getting people from modes suited for short trips (trams, buses) to modes suited for medium trims (metros), or long trips (suburban / region / HSR trains) rather than trying to make a mode do a job it isn't good at. Temporary buses are okay if they're just running on regular roads. As soon as you put in some dedicated infrastructure they get very politically sticky.
@@electro_sykes Like I said, the problem is once BRT is built it just never gets upgraded, so you end up with a very expensive to operate highly polluting system that after 20-45 years ends up costing more AND you don’t get the various economic and safety benefits along the way. Just borrow more money and do it right the first time.
Brisbane suffers from the same issue that a lot of younger cities do. The urban sprawl that came with the onset of the motor vehicle has surrounded most Brisbane train stations by single dwelling blocks that don’t provide enough capacity for what the network is capable of, even before the cross river rail kicks in.
"surrounded most Brisbane train stations by single dwelling blocks" I'd actually turn that statement around : 'The Rail service has been so bad that denser living has not grow-up around the train-stations.' And we can see the example of that now: many areas around the stations on the Gold Coast lines have experienced rapid gentrification with the confirmation of the improvement of the rail service. For example whole blocks of houses that the developers owned have been flattened near Kingston Road/Station and on Jacaranda St: I would say that Six houses will make way for 60 Units: the promise of a better train made that happen.
Brisbane boomed at the wrong time, just as automobile dependency was becoming the norm. However; at the property values in the suburbs surrounding the Brisbane CBD ever increase; it is inevitable that they will see those single storied houses replaced with blocks of flats/apartments. Ironically; Brisbane was the last Australian city to lose its tram system. And only because of catastrophic flooding.
Thanks CityMoose. Another interesting video. Should make quite a big difference to Brisbane's public transport use, especially if they increase those off-peak frequencies. Cheers.
It's interesting that Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane have similar projects with new cross city lines that connect to existing lines and untangle others. Sydneys goes an extra step being driverless and converting other lines to driverless, but all are impressive.
Although it is good to have this rail project, and it's good to see it go ahead, there are some details I feel that have been overlooked which could have further improved PT in Brisbane / SEQ: No tunnel stubs: Tunnel stubs are short sections jutting out from an existing tunnel, allowing for rail junctions with future tunnel expansions, while minimising disruptions to existing train operations. It would have been great to see stubs north of the CRR Roma St Station, making it easier to tunnel to the Trouts Rd corridor. This would be beneficial for several reasons: it creates the possibility for a new station at Kelvin Grove for QUT, allows Trouts Rd rail to be tunnelled if it's deemed too environmentally important, and provides a faster link and more capacity to the CBD for the Sunshine Coast Direct trains. Equally, tunnel stubs before the portal at Dutton Park would have been great to see. The original CRR plans saw the southern portal coming up at Yerongpilly. The benefit of this is that it would removed conflicts between passenger services and freight by increasing the corridor from 3 track to 5 track (a drawback of this was 66 property resumptions at Yerongpilly). This increased capacity would have allowed for more services and frequency on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines, and a future Flagstone/Beaudesert line. Poor connections at Boggo Rd to the busway / Park Rd trains: The Park Rd/Boggo Rd area is a large interchange for those travelling to UQ, as well as the Ecosciences Precinct and the local schools. The current design of the Boggo Rd CRR station requires people wanting to interchange to Park Rd to travel from the CRR platform underground, to the uphill side of Park Rd, walk to the far end of Park Rd to the existing pedestrian overpass, and then back down to the platform level. In an ideal world, there would be a new overpass at the South-East end of Boggo Rd busway and Park Rd station, minimising the connection time. Lack of integration with the Woolloongabba busway station rebuild: In 2022, local, state, and federal governments signed the South-East Queensland 'City Deal'. In this, there was $450 million set aside for a Woolloongabba busway station rebuild. The whole Woolloongabba redevelopment has been a shemozzle, and the lack of integration or overarching vision between these the CRR station, the busway station rebuild, and the development of the Go-print site gives me a lot of concern. Overall, a good project that's well needed, but we lack the broad network vision within which this sits, as well as a close enough focus on the finer details.
Exactly right, a number of these were going through my head whilst watching, it is clear City Moose whilst entertaining is not as well-researched or informative as other similar Australian channels like Paul from Transportvlog, Martin from Taitset, Ciy Connections or TheTrainGuy4.
One thing I have wondered about Trouts Road corridor is this, at least you can probably do the additional tunnel connection within Hardgrave Park though it might have to be a flat junction in that case. But if now that the tunnel stubs haven’t been included: would it be cheaper and better to quad track the FG lin? Looks like there is space. Another idea I had was what if the Ferny Grove line was converted to light rail from FG to Alderley and then rerouted onto new tram tracks down Alderley Road into the city, then you can give the railway from Mayne to Alderley over to the NWTC/TROUTS Rd line?
A lot of Perth's network through the day has a 5 to 10 minute frequency. On the main North-South route, you're never really waiting more than a few minutes. Having spent significant time in both cities, Perth's network is far, far better and easy to use.
@@electro_sykesless eliminated, and more never built the bottleneck. Joondalup line used to through run with the Armadale line before the Mandurah line opened, and that was fine as well
I live in Perth and all lines are service every 15mins off peak and after 730pm it's every 30mins. During peak hour Transperth trains runs every 7mins and will Ellenbrook line coming online at the end of the year, Midland/ Forrestfield-Airport line and Ellenbrook line will have 5mins or less interval. In few years time when PTA/Transperth introduce CBTC and trains can run every 3mins or less.
We also need to focus on a outer loop like Melbourne is doing. As if you want to go to say Ipswich to Beenleigh, you got to go all the way to the city first which will add nearly an hour of extra travelling. A outer loop will fix this. And if we made it elevated we could do it pretty quickly.
It can be at grade or elevated using the gateway and Logan motorway alignments on the Southside. On the Northside though, it would have to be underground due to terrain and developed land blocking the way
Brisbane and Melbourne have the same problem: infrequent off-peak services. Not just trains but buses too. The Sunday timetable needs to disappear as a stand-alone entity, in fact the weekend timetable should just be the off peak timetable running 7 days a week, with off-peak frequency replacing peak hour services during weekends and public holidays. There should be no difference between 1pm Tuesday and 1pm Sunday. The only difference should be the last service times on Fri and Sat nights (and Sun nights on a long weekend). Daytime off-peak should be the same as night off-peak, looking at you Yarra Trams and almost all bus routes including Sydney.
You missed mentioning the 50¢ fares for all Translink services being introduced from early August which will boost the numbers of travellers on trains, buses, ferries and light rail. And that’s not just SEQ, it is for ALL TransLink services throughout the entire state. A return suburban or inter-urban trip for a gold coin donation - sweet!
Glad you mentioned frequency as a major barrier. Our premier just announced reduced cost transit. But I think increased frequency would be far superior. I dont get it off peak due to inconvenience not cost. Stats show cost is 4th or lower reason in most cases.
@@becsterbrisbane6275 South Brisbane station was the terminus. Strange but true. From Wynnum, to get to Kelvin Grove Teachers' College in the 60s we would take a taxi (!) from the station to the college.
What's wrong with the network being old? It still works! (BNE represent!) The issue of patronage was identified long ago. I did a survey for airtrain, where the most common response was that people would use it to get to the airport...if they lived near a trainline. That too is a legacy of Queensland not really having urban planning before the 1990s, and regional planning only at the start of this century.
I think that is what the 50c trips for 6 months is all about. Increasing demand off peak so there is a reason to run more trains more often... I think 10 mins is the max wait time they need to hit
Brisbane is great! a new station at the Gabba that meets with the major bus station right next to the stadium. So instead of putting the Olympic stadium there we are going to erect a temporary $2 billion stadium in mt Gravatt with no transport! 🥰😍 we is so smrt! When the Gabba falls down just before the Olympics at least we will have a station right there to visit the rubble! ❤️ I’m joke of course… they are spending 100s of millions to roll the Gabba in glitter for the Olympics before it is knocked down in the late 2030s then Brisbane will finally have an Olympic legacy to rival St Louis 1904.
The sensible move would have been to cancel the planned mixed-use development over the Gabba station and build the new stadium over that site. Oh well, it would be a relatively simple matter to build a branch line off the Beenleigh line to service the Nathan Stadium, either branching off at Rocklea, ploughing through the Salisbury industrial estate then a short tunnel under Griffith Uni or branching off at Salisbury and plough through industrial land along Riawena Rd then crossing under Kessels Rd to the stadium with a cut n cover tunnel and underground station. Minimal residential resumptions, if any, either way and the latter has the advantage of being less disruptive to the environment and quicker to build.
One thing I've noticed about Brisbane as well is they seem to put a lot of love into their bus network. The network of roads that are exclusive for buses and some of the "Bus Stations" are very impressive. I think this has lead to the train network not getting enough love though.
From what I can work out, off peak frequencies on the Redcliffe Peninsula and Caboolture lines could be increased to a train every 15 minutes even with the current track layout and service patterns. The airport line can run a train every 15 minutes, and 10 minutes during peak if they really wanted to but I think they don't have the capacity through the city to do this. I think the best and easiest change they could make to the network is a junction reconfiguration at Darra station to allow trains to and from Ipswich to access platform 1 and 4 at Darra (the outer two tracks), and Springfield trains accessing the centre two tracks (platform 2 and 3) without conflicts, the current flyover would allow this with some more junctions and track just before the station. They would then only need to electrify and probably re-signal the eastern track between Darra and Corinda to allow electric trains to use it, and a slight junction reconfiguration at Corinda. This would allow Ipswich trains to use the outer tracks and run express while Springfield trains would use the inner tracks and stop all stations. They would then combine into the two western tracks at Milton, which the current junction and signalling layout already allows, there would be no crossing conflicts here, and they would also not need to build a 4th platform at Oxley. Now you can run trains as frequently as you like on this corridor, for very cheap and no operational difficulty
@@catprog they would combine back into two tracks, yes this would technically limit the capacity, but neither line needs more than 10 trains per hour, so it would be fine, the reason for the 4 tracks is to allow overtaking more so than capacity
Unfortunately with the Airport line, you cannot have a frequency below 15 minutes due to the single track between Eagle Junction and International Terminal, which the journey takes around 6-7 minutes one way even with majority of the trip traveling around 90km/h to 100km/h. Also, the operating hours for the airport line particularly need to be extended to after 10pm and before 5am/6am to possibly between 4am and 12am, even if they just use 3 car units which would also help increase frequency on other lines.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 I am talking at Roma Street after they finish. Also, do you need to reconfigure the Darra juctions? If Springfield can access 2 platforms and Ipswich can access the other 2 does it matter which ones are which? (seeing if it can be done without anything new being built). Possibly with a corinda and indooroopilly stop on the ipswich express line.
It's unironically lifted from the London Project. They've even used the same logo. Makes the opposition's proposal to call it the Elizabeth line just a little extra cheeky.
Queensland Rail also has famously poor communication. Perhaps the worst example was during serious flooding that stopped all trains through the city. A ministerial staffer was in the main ABC building and realized that they had known this for some time but that there had been no communication to the travelling public. Countless people could have made other plans and saved hours of delay if QR had had a culture of caring about this. That was years ago, yet several times recently I've seen that this culture hasn't changed. From an HR and human factors point of view, something is badly wrong at the top of QR.
I watched this to help fill in a few details of the overview that I figured I had missed and to that end it was good - especially with the details about the Exhibition line. It’s possibly understandable that someone not from Brisbane could miss some relevant details and over state the lack of upgrades over the years. Apart from the Airport line you mentioned there have been significant upgrades, new lines and connections that have greatly enhanced the network (even if it is still lacking). The area covered by this network is also relevant when comparing it to other cities. How much of Perths population is directly serviced by the rail network compared to Brisbane (I have no idea). Does Perth have other populated regions like the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Ipswich and Logan near by that it needs to connect to? The train used to stop at Beenleigh many years ago with limited public transport from their to the gold coast but that line was extended to connect better with the gold coasts light rail (“tram”) network. The Busway network operates more like a train network than regular buses because the busway is a dedicated system of roads and tunnels that only intersect with the road network at a few places - mostly at it’s ends. The Busway network was a major upgrade to Brisbane public transport about 25 or so years ago. In fact “Boggo Road” is the name of the Busway Station and “Park Road” is the train station next to it (Park Road traditionally being the last connection between the Cleveland Line and Beenleigh/GoldCoast lines). Perhaps they are going to merge the train and busway station into one “Boggo road” transport interchange in a similar way that Roma St is both a rail and Busway interchange. I’m interested to know how the Gabba busway and new rail station will link up with Boggo/Park Rd station and beyond as the current busway intersects with the rail line at South Bank and Buranda station (one past Park Rd on the Cleveland line) It would be pretty hard to get your head around all the nuances of a public transport system in a city you don’t live in. Do you have local contacts in each city help clarify details?
We get frustrated out at Fernvale as the train line was removed that went out to Moore. It’s been turned into a Rail Trail however the population is growing at such a rapid rate in the Somerset region that our one highway is outdated and considered one of the most dangerous in Qld. Wish they would put the line back in for all the Commuters and locals into Brisbane. Would save lives on the Brisbane Valley Highway.
@@gandalfthecreator ok, how about in a reivsed manner we convert the outer harbour and grange lines to a tram train and also convert the O-Bahn to this Tram Train system. It would run on the street in the CBD and then takes over rail and busway alignment, much like manchester metrolink,
On frequency there is plans post cross river rail for existing lines to become a) Long distance express with trains running every 30 minutes express past majority of stations for e.g. on the Ipswich line trains run express milton - darra stopping only at toowong and Indooroopilly. or b) Suburban turn up and go with trains running every 15 minutes stopping all stations Current proposed long distance express lines are: Ipswich/Rosewood - Airport & Gold Coast - Gympie
It's the $6billion project that would have seen the same outcome as upgrading the signalling on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast and Cleveland lines. Also omitted is that there is now no longer a direct connection between the Gold Coast and the Brisbane Airport. Connecting the Airport line to the Rosewood line is so bizarre.
Definitely need more frequency, stop running express trains from stations within 45 mins to the City, and more trains need to run through the Western suburbs. After living on all North, South, West, and East sides of Brisbane, the trains on the Westside are definitely the most packed and least serviced suburbs. I've been catching trains in Brisbane for over 4 decades.
Labor is great for transit. They have their problems but QLD has come a long way since the fall of Joh, basically all thanks to Labor. Here's hoping the LNP doesn't get in and if they do they don't scrap all the ALP's advances in transit like the QTMP, Sunshine Coast Line, and 50c fares like they did under Newman with CRR when it was first proposed.
Every poll is indicating a strong disapproval of the current state government and Steven Miles across Queensland. Surely there’s a good reason behind that.
@Hat1607 I don't think that's an actual argument you're just deferring to consensus of voters who, I'm sorry, but generally don't follow policy (I'm pro democracy but i dont think democratic consensus is automatically correct). If you'd give me the reason, I'd be happy to consider them.
Unfortunately, the LNP will win in October which means nothing will happen for rail except for the SC line, Logan quad project & hopefully GC LR Stage 4. Springfield ext & the Salisbury to Beudesert line means waiting for the ALP to be elected again. Could be a decade away b4 the Bris Subway proposal also gets considered? It's tough to win a 4th term esp in a high inflation cycle. Renewal is a good thing for political parties & the LNP are good at shooting themselves in the foot so let's see if they last longer than 1 term?
@@yappofloyd1905 I've been really happy with Miles so far, I doubt labor will win in October but I hope they save face and, like you say, we see another 1-term LNP government (like the Newman government, which Crisafulli was part of and said didn't do anything wrong policy wise). Fun fact: Newman called me weird when I was 10 because I ordered a Chai Latte at a local dance school tuckshop (he didn't realise I was behind him)
Ever since CRR was announced, I feel like I am the only person who sees the downside of it. More stops = longer travel times. Why do people who are travelling the furthest have to go through the tunnel(Caboolture/Gold Coast lines)? Fortitude Valley goers will now need to change trains after a night out. To go North or South side(depending on which suburbs you live in) will need to go back to Roma Street Station to change trains to get on their lines, which will mean people will need to leave earlier to make the cut off time. You can tell the people who designed this do not actually use the trains. More like a plan to build the new central station called Albert St station to get more foot traffic through the mall.
The “Queensland Train Manufacturing Program” will provide 65 new 6-car trains to the network, hopefully greatly assisting with the current frequency issues
They are just another batch of NGR trains. Unlike the first batch, they are being locally made. Still same systems, same parts and everything with some minor updates to stay relevant
@@electro_sykes uhh no. QTMPs are going to be based on a Hyundai Rotem design. NGRs are a Bombardier in the VLocity / Perth B Series / Adelaide 4000 family.
@@alexjago51 The NGRS look nothing like that, I think ur getting mixed up with the SMU 260/IMU 160 (the second newest trains on the network) which were delivered before the NGRs. Also the NGR and Hyundai rotem designs are very similar. We are better off just buying some C series trains like Perths. They have additional doors, new safety features, etc or we should just order more NGR's. Then we can have them rolling on the tracks sooner. The design is already there and being used.
They have announced flat 50¢ fares in August for 6 months, which should help boost ridership, but no further announcements regarding increasing train frequency to match. I’m grateful for the cheaper fares, but I am not looking forward to the inevitable overcrowding, which may well backfire the whole initiative.
I really hope the 50c fairs give a boost to ridership. Which then hopefully pushes the government to build more public transit. Cross River is great, but I'd love to see some new train lines built. As well as properly utilising the land around our stations.
I'm excited for the direct sunshine coast line and, if it ever goes ahead, the beaudesert line. I agree about the lack of TOD but that's more of an LGA thing so hard for the state gov to coordinate.
Where the CRR should have run is over ground elevated Bowen Hills to Perry park to Newstead then New-farm then bridge OR bridge across the river to west Bulimba and Hawthorne south along Norman Creek to pick up the southern lines.
Excuse my ignorance as maybe I just misunderstood. But with the Gold Coast line, is it now not going through south bank and south Brisbane? As someone who often buses to then get on a train, those two stations are by far the easiest as pretty much every southern bus line stops at south bank and south Brisbane. On the flip side, the southern buses often split their end destination between queen street and Roma street, so to me that just seems an odd idea to skip south bank station which was otherwise a very easy transition.
THere were several routes that could have been cheaper and over ground not under ground. That underground doesn't address the need for a cross river freight route. The main reason for that route choice is to feed more suckers into the CBD based casino.
The line from Toowoomba to Brisbane needs improvement. That whole area from there to Ipswich is booming. Needs a regular train like the Gold Coast line. Of course that will take serious investment to update line infrastructure itself.
qr could eleviate the congestion across the river immediately by routing the GC/APT trains via tennyson and the western line which has a 4 track capacity….those trains have no need to go via park rd/south bank-brisbane
Watch them forget about actual connectivity. At the moment the airport line once it gets to eagle junction connects with, the airport line… And that is a trend I expect them to continue.
I feel another reason for peak traffic being extremely overcrowded is due to the stigma from the pandemic making riders save a seat next to them, forcing riders to sit as 1 person per row per side (2 per row, excluding side seats). Even with the pandemic mostly gone, people still follow others and always leave a seat empty. Causing people to either stand right next to riders or have to wait for the next train.
What is needed in the eyes of the Public Servants, is to have a luxury abode just minutes from George street. Local and State government Politicians, and other Public Servants have already bough up parcels along the way. They knew before it was publicly announced, to "invest" in that area. Once it is announced, the uniformed take second place.
Brisbane does need to improve off-peak frequency on its suburban lines, to at least every 15 minutes. That could be done today, there is no need to wait for CRR to improve off-peak frequency. If there is an issue with lack of crews or other staff, it is time to start recruiting (or, heaven forbid, convert train operations to driver only and retrain guards as drivers).
No mention of the 50c fares coming in for a 6 month trial across the entire public transport network? This may see off peak patronage increase and hopefully therefore see a increase in the services provided
Brisbane is making the same mistake Melbourne did in the 70/80s. They should probably build a brand new light train metro line instead using narrower units allowing for small bore tunnels or one single tunnel to take both trains. Then in the future the heavy rail can have some of it's stations removed to allow faster express service into the city for those living in the outer suburbs, while also having the cheaper to operate high capacity metro providing the inter-connected network closer to the city with platform doors and semi-autonomous operation.
Brisbane/SEQ is unfortunately still in sprawl mode, so we do need the long distance commuter rail. CRR features 9-car stations (currently we run 6-car trains) so it is future proofing to an extent.
@@alexjago51 I'm not talking about removing the suburban rail, just that additions should focus on a metro rather than hybriding the suburban rail. Also Brisbane should definitely stop sprawling... And remove it's river front freeways and highways.
The sole reason that hasn't been built yet is because the airport operators don't want a rail link. Melbourne airport is not really an airport. Rather it's a giant, money-making carpark with runways attached.
The point of this project is to increase capacity at the core of the network. Without it we can't really add new lines, or run more service on existing lines.
No, it was actually the disastrous Campbell Newman LNP state government which canned the original Bligh Labor government CRR plan, completely redesigned it for no reason, then Labor had to pick up the pieces and return it to the original superior plan when they returned to power. Plus the Federal funding for the Bligh Govt plan was cancelled when the Abbott LNP govt was elected federally. Abbott gutted then stacked Infrastructure Australia with cronies which then claimed there was no business case. So all that white-anting by the LNP set us back a decade. I was working for Queensland Rail in the late 2000s when preliminary plans were being prepared for Government.
Australian trains are just bad… even Melbourne off peak are terrible. Frequency is bad . Plenty of change over to bus between stations during off peak. Ridiculous.
It wont change shit, why? WHY? Because the trians and fking busses dont link to where people WANT and NEED to GO! The river crossing is totally useless as well.
The 50c fare 6 month trial later this year will no doubt, be watched by all states.
@@MartintheTinman Not the same
@@MartintheTinman The 50c fare is obviously a temporary trial. Victoria's fare reduction was presented as a permanent change. No one's doubting that the fare will go back higher than 50c again.
It won't do much to address traffic congestion during peak hours. It will just save money for existing commuters.
It’s useless to provide fare reductions without increases in off peak frequencies . A train to and from airport every 30 minutes is ridiculous together with the lack of security measures and reliability which is horrendous . Also as mentioned the rail bus and ferry system are grossly un coordinated
@@tcookiem I doubt it. The fare will go down to zero, if anything. In my opinion.Giving a benefit to the public is easy. Taking it away requires an expenditure of political capital that no party, in my view, will be prepared to pay. Public transport is already heavily subsidised. Costs are covered in Tokyo, but that situation is quite different. Yesterday, Sunday, I paid 87 cents (half normal) for a trip from Bayside to South Bank Station. Already cheap. But I, like you, may be wrong. The future will decide. I can't speak for the buses that transport more people than the trains.
Yeah, the off peak frequencies are so important, and so far behind the mark here in Brisbane. I reckon the disconnected leadership and the infighting between BCC who run bus services and QR who run train services is also a huge part of why that per capita usage stat is so low.
Our bus network is not really co-ordinated with the rail at all. It's a core reason as to why Perth does so well. The level of co-ordination between bus and rail is incredible. The biggest issue here is that there is a culture of single seat journeys, resulting in an excess of bus routes that run through to the city. We have what are functionally suburban feeder routes that run around all the little local nooks and crannies of a suburb, and then instead of dropping those people off at a train/bus station where they can catch a higher capacity service, they just run into the city themselves.
@@91Caesar this. this is what i find weird in brisbane , that you ride a bus with maybe 5 people on it all the way into the city , rather than routing to a train station , its weird.
Not just off peak frequencies but also frequencies in the counter-peak direction. Whilst trains into the city are every 5 - 10 minutes, heading the other direction you still have to wait half an hour to an hour. It’s even more annoying when you have empty trains out of service going that same direction. Just seems like a waste of a service.
@@webapple1there are several reasons but the main ones are
1. the lack of bus-rail interchanges
2. the lack of off-peak frequency for both trains and buses
3. the train network built before the modern city and road network means rail stations not on a main road but in the side streets in the suburbs
4. Travel time comparison
@@ryancheng9591 having busses crowd the cbd makes 0 sense at all , the insane traffic it causes and you see 1 person on it , they should go from train stations
Blows my mind that Perth runs trains off peak every 15 mins, ok Perth you go Perth 👏
That must be a new thing... I moved from Perth to Brissy and have found the public transport much better here so far.
Perth has been running 15 minute frequency (or less) for a decade or more easily.
That’s only because Perth prevented a bottleneck by sending the Mandurah line underground and through running it with the Joondalup line in the first place. If Perth hadn’t of built that underground section, then those really good frequencies wouldn’t be possible due to bottlenecks at Perth station. Brisbane is playing catch up here.
Same as almost all of Sydney Trains - frequencies of every 14 mins off peak from memory. A great start, but so close to true "turn up and go" off peak frequencies of every 10 mins or so.
@@woodvineandcothis only happened around 15 years ago, so if you moved before then, then yeah
1. Off-peak wait times: Sunshine Coast line only a train every 90 minutes - hence a car clogged up Bruce Highway in the northern suburbs.
2. Getting more people to use the rail network: later this year a six month trail will be conducted with the maximum fare being only 50 cents.
Is that the new sunshine coast line ? Or the current fake one which doesn't go to the sunshine coast
@tangiers365 No, it's the old line running through the SC hinterland with a very poor off-peak bus connection. The proposed SC line will not be up and running for many, many years.
@@aussiebloke51 That is caused by the single track line and sharing with freight trains. I do still think they could probably do better than 90 minute services, even with the single track, but they are slowly duplicating and straightening the alignment.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 No significant duplication or realignment in the last fifteen years of travelling daily on the SC line.
@@aussiebloke51 Google 'Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade'. Also I think the offical name is 'North Coast Line'
This is a great and much needed project.
But before getting too excited about its ambition, remember it was first proposed in 2010. Then scrapped by Campbell Newman for the BaT Tunnel Proposal. Before that was scrapped and CRR revitalised. The modelling back in 2010 said it should be built by 2016 to keep up with growth at the time. I’d argue that CRR is a bare minimum upgrade, and a decade late at that. Ambitious would be dusting off the Brisbane Subway proposal, expanding the single line plan to an actual network, and getting on with building the first line that had had a rough alignment proposed many many years ago.
please explain the Brisbane Subway proposal and the other things?
@@jaydenanders9814
Back in 2010 the government of the time put together the Connecting SEQ 2031 plan (link below). It included a proposed subway from Hamilton to Toowong, Heavy rail in the North West Transport (Trouts Rd) Corridor, busway extension to Chermside and Carindale and beyond, Sunny Coast Rail, Cooloongatta Rail, expanded bikeways etc.
IIRC the Cross River Rail Wikipedia has the basic details of the history of CRR to BaT to CRR 2.0. The basic outcome is that political bullshitting cost public transport in Brisbane at least a decade worth of progress.
cabinet.qld.gov.au/documents/2010/jul/connecting%20seq%202031/Attachments/Draft%20Connecting%20SEQ%202031.pdf
Newman was a tragedy. Lets hope QLD doesn't repeat that mistake this October.
@@jaydenanders9814 it is a proposed underground metro rail line running from Hamilton Northshore to UQ/Toowong via Bulimba, Newstead, Albert St and West End.
After CRR, there next big Brisbane railway project lined up is a metro from Indooroopilly or Toowong to the airport via places like West End, the CBD and Bulimba. It was first scoped out under Bligh. I think they want to complete more of the Sunny Coast duplication, Maroochydore line and the Gold Coast heavy rail and light rail lines before pushing on with it.
More brisbane videos please!!
Yes please!
Really enjoy your Sydney related videos, but it's awesome to see you starting to do other cities and regions too. Australia is building a lot of interesting transport infrastructure at the moment!
The issue in Brisbane is that most lines have a bottleneck at both ends. For example, the Cleveland line can only run eight trains per hour in the peak direction because it shares downtown tracks with (notionally) three other lines, and these downtown tracks can only carry 24 trains per hour. But also, the Cleveland line can only run eight trains per hour because the sidings at Manly and the single track beyond can only accommodate eight trains per hour (if half short turn via the sidings). All the other lines are similarly constrained at both ends.
These bottlenecks are most of the reason that off peak frequency and counter peak frequency is so poor. And they are hard to fix because the benefits of fixing any one bottleneck is limited (by other constraints on the same line) and is mostly of benefit to off peak services.
Cross River Rail is no different. It won't actually lead to very much extra peak service because it only fixes the downtown bottlenecks, and the suburban constraints will remain. But it does remove a constraint from multiple lines in one fell swoop, and that's significant.
With CRR, other improvements elsewhere in the network will deliver immediate benefits. And that probably makes those other improvements more likely to happen.
Cross River Rail as you say is a necessary stepping stone towards a better more functional network, but it isn’t a hammer blow like some are making out. There are a host of other projects enabled by having cross river rail in place, including:
-the direct Sunshine Coast line
-Brisbane Subway
-flagstaff line
-northwest transit corridor (trouts road)
-Gold Coast faster rail
The lines that are capacity-constrained as you mentioned are:
-Cleveland (though you could spark the dual-gauge line and have an express route with some trains terminating at Murrarie if you wanted more than 8 trains per hour)
-Shorncliffe (a super easy duplication or just install a turnback at Sandgate)
-Doomben (a simple crossing loop between Hendra and Clayfield would give you 6th which is all you will need)
-Airport (impossible to fix without major construction but I have suggested before that a simple duplication from International Airport to a new stop at DFO would get you 6 trains per hour9
-Beerburrum to Berwah duplication needed
-Springfield/Ipswich requires one simple additional crossover at Darra then it could run UP_UP_DOWN_DOWN which would remove the merger before the city and increase overall capacity on the western line
@kyletopfer7818 also, Park Rd to Kuraby and Northgate to Petrie are heavily constrained by interling express and local services. The options are:
to run GC and Caboolture / Nambour trains all stops in the constrained portions.
Add a number of passing loops to both segments, which would allow higher frequency express, but would leave the local trains at very low capacity.
Quad both segments.
@kyletopfer7818 also, Park Rd to Kuraby and Northgate to Petrie are heavily constrained by interling express and local services. The options are:
to run GC and Caboolture / Nambour trains all stops in the constrained portions.
Add a number of passing loops to both segments, which would allow higher frequency express, but would leave the local trains at very low capacity.
Quad both segments.
@@p1mason there is absolutely no doubt to me that the NWTC/trouts road corridor would be the answer for Sunshine Coast trains, it would cut 15 minutes maybe more off current journey times and allow you to service a whole new catchment rather than waste money on quad tracking to northgate.
For gold coast trains I think they should push for the feds to build a new 160kmh tunnel from Dutton Park all the way to either Kuraby (if the Kuraby-Beenleigh Quad goes ahead) or to Beenleigh; with an interchange stop at Mt Gravatt to the busway. The feds can call this their first High Speed Rail to the Gold Coast, it would cut heaps of journey time off and bring the entire SE busway catchment within a much shorter commute of the city.
Cross river rail and Brisbane Metro is a good "Start", I would say. There is still a lot more work to be done, such as expanding the Metro to Capalaba via Carindale as well as all the way along Gympie Road to Carseldine/Bracken Ridge via Chermside. This could be achieved by adding a busway as part of the Northside Road Tunnel as well as utilising the newly built Northside Transitway.Though they are trying to avoid, sooner or later we will will have to build the rail connection along the North West Transportation corridor to help with the increased services from the future sunshine coast line. Speaking of that, until it reaches the full length to Maroochydore, we do need a rapid bus service stopping only at future station locations on the coast. looking back into Brisbanes southside and we need to send Metro along Mains Road right down to Browns Plains with stops at QSAC, Sunnybank, Altandi Station. We need to duplicate and extend the Doomben line to Hamilton (and eventually, all the way across the river to the south side/Logan and then across to Richlands as our own suburban rail loop). Brisbane Metro could service Brisbane Airport directly using the road tunnels. Almost every station on the cleveland line needs an upgrade and between Wynnum and Cleveland, it needs duplicating. Also instead of sending the G;Link to Gold Coast Airport, just send the tram to Varsity Lakes and then extend rail to the gold coast airport. Also speaking of the Gold Coast Trams, we should really extend them from Helensvale to Coomera via the theme parks. Also send the Citycats to the Cruise Terminal
Definitely don't use a bus. Use trams. They're more comfortable, promote more growth, and cheaper to operate long term.
@@shraka the bus is only tempoary until it gets built and keep in mind most sunshine coast residents still work on the sunshine coast so a busway may actually make sense for one seat journeys.
@@electro_sykes Last time I checked a dedicated busway has never been upgraded to a tram or metro. It just doesn't happen. They're planned to be upgraded but never are Trams are more comfortable, more environmentally friendly, safer, usually cheaper to operate and scale a lot better. One seat journeys can be very inefficient. If transfers are designed properly they can be very quick and comfortable getting people from modes suited for short trips (trams, buses) to modes suited for medium trims (metros), or long trips (suburban / region / HSR trains) rather than trying to make a mode do a job it isn't good at.
Temporary buses are okay if they're just running on regular roads. As soon as you put in some dedicated infrastructure they get very politically sticky.
@@shraka true. but until rail is built, i think a rapid bus or bus lanes will be a band aid. Thinking about, maybe a light rail system could also work
@@electro_sykes Like I said, the problem is once BRT is built it just never gets upgraded, so you end up with a very expensive to operate highly polluting system that after 20-45 years ends up costing more AND you don’t get the various economic and safety benefits along the way. Just borrow more money and do it right the first time.
Brisbane suffers from the same issue that a lot of younger cities do.
The urban sprawl that came with the onset of the motor vehicle has surrounded most Brisbane train stations by single dwelling blocks that don’t provide enough capacity for what the network is capable of, even before the cross river rail kicks in.
"surrounded most Brisbane train stations by single dwelling blocks"
I'd actually turn that statement around :
'The Rail service has been so bad that denser living has not grow-up around the train-stations.'
And we can see the example of that now: many areas around the stations on the Gold Coast lines have experienced rapid gentrification with the confirmation of the improvement of the rail service.
For example whole blocks of houses that the developers owned have been flattened near Kingston Road/Station and on Jacaranda St: I would say that Six houses will make way for 60 Units: the promise of a better train made that happen.
Brisbane boomed at the wrong time, just as automobile dependency was becoming the norm.
However; at the property values in the suburbs surrounding the Brisbane CBD ever increase; it is inevitable that they will see those single storied houses replaced with blocks of flats/apartments.
Ironically; Brisbane was the last Australian city to lose its tram system. And only because of catastrophic flooding.
Thanks CityMoose. Another interesting video. Should make quite a big difference to Brisbane's public transport use, especially if they increase those off-peak frequencies. Cheers.
It's interesting that Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane have similar projects with new cross city lines that connect to existing lines and untangle others.
Sydneys goes an extra step being driverless and converting other lines to driverless, but all are impressive.
Suburban rail loop will also be driverless
This will be very good, but we need to add off-peak frequency for the rail network to become world class
Although it is good to have this rail project, and it's good to see it go ahead, there are some details I feel that have been overlooked which could have further improved PT in Brisbane / SEQ:
No tunnel stubs:
Tunnel stubs are short sections jutting out from an existing tunnel, allowing for rail junctions with future tunnel expansions, while minimising disruptions to existing train operations. It would have been great to see stubs north of the CRR Roma St Station, making it easier to tunnel to the Trouts Rd corridor. This would be beneficial for several reasons: it creates the possibility for a new station at Kelvin Grove for QUT, allows Trouts Rd rail to be tunnelled if it's deemed too environmentally important, and provides a faster link and more capacity to the CBD for the Sunshine Coast Direct trains. Equally, tunnel stubs before the portal at Dutton Park would have been great to see. The original CRR plans saw the southern portal coming up at Yerongpilly. The benefit of this is that it would removed conflicts between passenger services and freight by increasing the corridor from 3 track to 5 track (a drawback of this was 66 property resumptions at Yerongpilly). This increased capacity would have allowed for more services and frequency on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines, and a future Flagstone/Beaudesert line.
Poor connections at Boggo Rd to the busway / Park Rd trains:
The Park Rd/Boggo Rd area is a large interchange for those travelling to UQ, as well as the Ecosciences Precinct and the local schools. The current design of the Boggo Rd CRR station requires people wanting to interchange to Park Rd to travel from the CRR platform underground, to the uphill side of Park Rd, walk to the far end of Park Rd to the existing pedestrian overpass, and then back down to the platform level. In an ideal world, there would be a new overpass at the South-East end of Boggo Rd busway and Park Rd station, minimising the connection time.
Lack of integration with the Woolloongabba busway station rebuild:
In 2022, local, state, and federal governments signed the South-East Queensland 'City Deal'. In this, there was $450 million set aside for a Woolloongabba busway station rebuild. The whole Woolloongabba redevelopment has been a shemozzle, and the lack of integration or overarching vision between these the CRR station, the busway station rebuild, and the development of the Go-print site gives me a lot of concern.
Overall, a good project that's well needed, but we lack the broad network vision within which this sits, as well as a close enough focus on the finer details.
Exactly right, a number of these were going through my head whilst watching, it is clear City Moose whilst entertaining is not as well-researched or informative as other similar Australian channels like Paul from Transportvlog, Martin from Taitset, Ciy Connections or TheTrainGuy4.
One thing I have wondered about Trouts Road corridor is this, at least you can probably do the additional tunnel connection within Hardgrave Park though it might have to be a flat junction in that case. But if now that the tunnel stubs haven’t been included: would it be cheaper and better to quad track the FG lin? Looks like there is space. Another idea I had was what if the Ferny Grove line was converted to light rail from FG to Alderley and then rerouted onto new tram tracks down Alderley Road into the city, then you can give the railway from Mayne to Alderley over to the NWTC/TROUTS Rd line?
A lot of Perth's network through the day has a 5 to 10 minute frequency. On the main North-South route, you're never really waiting more than a few minutes. Having spent significant time in both cities, Perth's network is far, far better and easy to use.
You guys eliminated your city bottleneck by building the Mandurah line underground in the cbd in the first place. Hence you can have higher frequency
@@electro_sykesless eliminated, and more never built the bottleneck. Joondalup line used to through run with the Armadale line before the Mandurah line opened, and that was fine as well
I live in Perth and all lines are service every 15mins off peak and after 730pm it's every 30mins. During peak hour Transperth trains runs every 7mins and will Ellenbrook line coming online at the end of the year, Midland/ Forrestfield-Airport line and Ellenbrook line will have 5mins or less interval. In few years time when PTA/Transperth introduce CBTC and trains can run every 3mins or less.
We also need to focus on a outer loop like Melbourne is doing. As if you want to go to say Ipswich to Beenleigh, you got to go all the way to the city first which will add nearly an hour of extra travelling. A outer loop will fix this.
And if we made it elevated we could do it pretty quickly.
Definitely need an orbital route on the southside - it could reach so many places that badly need rail services.
It can be at grade or elevated using the gateway and Logan motorway alignments on the Southside. On the Northside though, it would have to be underground due to terrain and developed land blocking the way
Brisbane and Melbourne have the same problem: infrequent off-peak services. Not just trains but buses too. The Sunday timetable needs to disappear as a stand-alone entity, in fact the weekend timetable should just be the off peak timetable running 7 days a week, with off-peak frequency replacing peak hour services during weekends and public holidays. There should be no difference between 1pm Tuesday and 1pm Sunday. The only difference should be the last service times on Fri and Sat nights (and Sun nights on a long weekend). Daytime off-peak should be the same as night off-peak, looking at you Yarra Trams and almost all bus routes including Sydney.
You missed mentioning the 50¢ fares for all Translink services being introduced from early August which will boost the numbers of travellers on trains, buses, ferries and light rail. And that’s not just SEQ, it is for ALL TransLink services throughout the entire state.
A return suburban or inter-urban trip for a gold coin donation - sweet!
Glad you mentioned frequency as a major barrier. Our premier just announced reduced cost transit. But I think increased frequency would be far superior. I dont get it off peak due to inconvenience not cost. Stats show cost is 4th or lower reason in most cases.
I remember when the Marivale bridge was built in 1978 and that was a huge game changer. That's how backward Queensland rail was.
Good lord, where's southbound trains cross before then? Only built in '78??!!
@@becsterbrisbane6275 South Brisbane station was the terminus. Strange but true. From Wynnum, to get to Kelvin Grove Teachers' College in the 60s we would take a taxi (!) from the station to the college.
Via Tennyson line. Train terminated in South Bris@@becsterbrisbane6275
What's wrong with the network being old? It still works! (BNE represent!)
The issue of patronage was identified long ago. I did a survey for airtrain, where the most common response was that people would use it to get to the airport...if they lived near a trainline. That too is a legacy of Queensland not really having urban planning before the 1990s, and regional planning only at the start of this century.
Nothing wrong with the network being old, we’re so lucky all this great rail infrastructure was built when it was - but I just wish we had kept it up!
I think that is what the 50c trips for 6 months is all about. Increasing demand off peak so there is a reason to run more trains more often... I think 10 mins is the max wait time they need to hit
Brisbane is great! a new station at the Gabba that meets with the major bus station right next to the stadium. So instead of putting the Olympic stadium there we are going to erect a temporary $2 billion stadium in mt Gravatt with no transport! 🥰😍 we is so smrt! When the Gabba falls down just before the Olympics at least we will have a station right there to visit the rubble! ❤️ I’m joke of course… they are spending 100s of millions to roll the Gabba in glitter for the Olympics before it is knocked down in the late 2030s then Brisbane will finally have an Olympic legacy to rival St Louis 1904.
The sensible move would have been to cancel the planned mixed-use development over the Gabba station and build the new stadium over that site.
Oh well, it would be a relatively simple matter to build a branch line off the Beenleigh line to service the Nathan Stadium, either branching off at Rocklea, ploughing through the Salisbury industrial estate then a short tunnel under Griffith Uni or branching off at Salisbury and plough through industrial land along Riawena Rd then crossing under Kessels Rd to the stadium with a cut n cover tunnel and underground station. Minimal residential resumptions, if any, either way and the latter has the advantage of being less disruptive to the environment and quicker to build.
One thing I've noticed about Brisbane as well is they seem to put a lot of love into their bus network. The network of roads that are exclusive for buses and some of the "Bus Stations" are very impressive. I think this has lead to the train network not getting enough love though.
The bus network is run by Brisbane City Council and the train network by the State Government.
I’m keen to see how the 50c fares will affect usage and adoption of the metro.
From what I can work out, off peak frequencies on the Redcliffe Peninsula and Caboolture lines could be increased to a train every 15 minutes even with the current track layout and service patterns. The airport line can run a train every 15 minutes, and 10 minutes during peak if they really wanted to but I think they don't have the capacity through the city to do this.
I think the best and easiest change they could make to the network is a junction reconfiguration at Darra station to allow trains to and from Ipswich to access platform 1 and 4 at Darra (the outer two tracks), and Springfield trains accessing the centre two tracks (platform 2 and 3) without conflicts, the current flyover would allow this with some more junctions and track just before the station. They would then only need to electrify and probably re-signal the eastern track between Darra and Corinda to allow electric trains to use it, and a slight junction reconfiguration at Corinda. This would allow Ipswich trains to use the outer tracks and run express while Springfield trains would use the inner tracks and stop all stations. They would then combine into the two western tracks at Milton, which the current junction and signalling layout already allows, there would be no crossing conflicts here, and they would also not need to build a 4th platform at Oxley.
Now you can run trains as frequently as you like on this corridor, for very cheap and no operational difficulty
this is very well researched and agreeable!
Problem is what do with the trains at the city end of the corridor?
@@catprog they would combine back into two tracks, yes this would technically limit the capacity, but neither line needs more than 10 trains per hour, so it would be fine, the reason for the 4 tracks is to allow overtaking more so than capacity
Unfortunately with the Airport line, you cannot have a frequency below 15 minutes due to the single track between Eagle Junction and International Terminal, which the journey takes around 6-7 minutes one way even with majority of the trip traveling around 90km/h to 100km/h. Also, the operating hours for the airport line particularly need to be extended to after 10pm and before 5am/6am to possibly between 4am and 12am, even if they just use 3 car units which would also help increase frequency on other lines.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 I am talking at Roma Street after they finish.
Also, do you need to reconfigure the Darra juctions? If Springfield can access 2 platforms and Ipswich can access the other 2 does it matter which ones are which? (seeing if it can be done without anything new being built). Possibly with a corinda and indooroopilly stop on the ipswich express line.
‘CrossRail’ seems to be a popular name
The amount of hard hats I’ve printed with some variant of “Cross River Rail” logos is ridiculous
The local conservative party has even said that if re-elected this year, they’ll name it the Elizabeth line 🤡
It's cross river rail
It's unironically lifted from the London Project. They've even used the same logo. Makes the opposition's proposal to call it the Elizabeth line just a little extra cheeky.
Enjoyed both the Brisbane and Sunshine Coast rail videos. You are a very informative vampire.
Queensland Rail also has famously poor communication. Perhaps the worst example was during serious flooding that stopped all trains through the city. A ministerial staffer was in the main ABC building and realized that they had known this for some time but that there had been no communication to the travelling public. Countless people could have made other plans and saved hours of delay if QR had had a culture of caring about this. That was years ago, yet several times recently I've seen that this culture hasn't changed. From an HR and human factors point of view, something is badly wrong at the top of QR.
The 50c trial is really going to test the capacity of the current network.
I watched this to help fill in a few details of the overview that I figured I had missed and to that end it was good - especially with the details about the Exhibition line. It’s possibly understandable that someone not from Brisbane could miss some relevant details and over state the lack of upgrades over the years. Apart from the Airport line you mentioned there have been significant upgrades, new lines and connections that have greatly enhanced the network (even if it is still lacking).
The area covered by this network is also relevant when comparing it to other cities. How much of Perths population is directly serviced by the rail network compared to Brisbane (I have no idea). Does Perth have other populated regions like the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Ipswich and Logan near by that it needs to connect to? The train used to stop at Beenleigh many years ago with limited public transport from their to the gold coast but that line was extended to connect better with the gold coasts light rail (“tram”) network.
The Busway network operates more like a train network than regular buses because the busway is a dedicated system of roads and tunnels that only intersect with the road network at a few places - mostly at it’s ends. The Busway network was a major upgrade to Brisbane public transport about 25 or so years ago. In fact “Boggo Road” is the name of the Busway Station and “Park Road” is the train station next to it (Park Road traditionally being the last connection between the Cleveland Line and Beenleigh/GoldCoast lines). Perhaps they are going to merge the train and busway station into one “Boggo road” transport interchange in a similar way that Roma St is both a rail and Busway interchange.
I’m interested to know how the Gabba busway and new rail station will link up with Boggo/Park Rd station and beyond as the current busway intersects with the rail line at South Bank and Buranda station (one past Park Rd on the Cleveland line)
It would be pretty hard to get your head around all the nuances of a public transport system in a city you don’t live in. Do you have local contacts in each city help clarify details?
We get frustrated out at Fernvale as the train line was removed that went out to Moore. It’s been turned into a Rail Trail however the population is growing at such a rapid rate in the Somerset region that our one highway is outdated and considered one of the most dangerous in Qld. Wish they would put the line back in for all the Commuters and locals into Brisbane. Would save lives on the Brisbane Valley Highway.
Very expensive to add new services compared with other cities as both a guard and driver are needed.
Can you do a video on Adelaide? About how little investment we're getting in rail compared to other states?
Whaddya mean no investment? You've got electric trains finally, and a freeway that runs in both directions 24/7! I jest
@@electro_sykes that has got to be one of the dumbest takes I've heard
@@gandalfthecreator ok, how about in a reivsed manner we convert the outer harbour and grange lines to a tram train and also convert the O-Bahn to this Tram Train system. It would run on the street in the CBD and then takes over rail and busway alignment, much like manchester metrolink,
On frequency there is plans post cross river rail for existing lines to become a) Long distance express with trains running every 30 minutes express past majority of stations for e.g. on the Ipswich line trains run express milton - darra stopping only at toowong and Indooroopilly. or b) Suburban turn up and go with trains running every 15 minutes stopping all stations
Current proposed long distance express lines are: Ipswich/Rosewood - Airport & Gold Coast - Gympie
It's the $6billion project that would have seen the same outcome as upgrading the signalling on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast and Cleveland lines. Also omitted is that there is now no longer a direct connection between the Gold Coast and the Brisbane Airport. Connecting the Airport line to the Rosewood line is so bizarre.
I am most looking foward to the direct Sunshine Coast heavy rail that will come now as a result of Cross River Rail
Definitely need more frequency, stop running express trains from stations within 45 mins to the City, and more trains need to run through the Western suburbs. After living on all North, South, West, and East sides of Brisbane, the trains on the Westside are definitely the most packed and least serviced suburbs. I've been catching trains in Brisbane for over 4 decades.
The exhibition line is used regularly by freight and North Queensland trains however they don’t stop at the station from what I know
Intra-state services also use the Exhibition line to access the intra-state services platform.
Boggo Rd station isn’t near Park Rd station, they are one and the same.
They gotta fix that- gets really confusing with the Park Road at Milton lol
Labor is great for transit. They have their problems but QLD has come a long way since the fall of Joh, basically all thanks to Labor. Here's hoping the LNP doesn't get in and if they do they don't scrap all the ALP's advances in transit like the QTMP, Sunshine Coast Line, and 50c fares like they did under Newman with CRR when it was first proposed.
The opposition scraps everything not because it’s a bad idea but because it’s a good idea that wasn’t theirs
Every poll is indicating a strong disapproval of the current state government and Steven Miles across Queensland. Surely there’s a good reason behind that.
@Hat1607 I don't think that's an actual argument you're just deferring to consensus of voters who, I'm sorry, but generally don't follow policy (I'm pro democracy but i dont think democratic consensus is automatically correct). If you'd give me the reason, I'd be happy to consider them.
Unfortunately, the LNP will win in October which means nothing will happen for rail except for the SC line, Logan quad project & hopefully GC LR Stage 4. Springfield ext & the Salisbury to Beudesert line means waiting for the ALP to be elected again. Could be a decade away b4 the Bris Subway proposal also gets considered?
It's tough to win a 4th term esp in a high inflation cycle. Renewal is a good thing for political parties & the LNP are good at shooting themselves in the foot so let's see if they last longer than 1 term?
@@yappofloyd1905 I've been really happy with Miles so far, I doubt labor will win in October but I hope they save face and, like you say, we see another 1-term LNP government (like the Newman government, which Crisafulli was part of and said didn't do anything wrong policy wise).
Fun fact: Newman called me weird when I was 10 because I ordered a Chai Latte at a local dance school tuckshop (he didn't realise I was behind him)
Ever since CRR was announced, I feel like I am the only person who sees the downside of it. More stops = longer travel times. Why do people who are travelling the furthest have to go through the tunnel(Caboolture/Gold Coast lines)? Fortitude Valley goers will now need to change trains after a night out. To go North or South side(depending on which suburbs you live in) will need to go back to Roma Street Station to change trains to get on their lines, which will mean people will need to leave earlier to make the cut off time. You can tell the people who designed this do not actually use the trains. More like a plan to build the new central station called Albert St station to get more foot traffic through the mall.
The “Queensland Train Manufacturing Program” will provide 65 new 6-car trains to the network, hopefully greatly assisting with the current frequency issues
They are just another batch of NGR trains. Unlike the first batch, they are being locally made. Still same systems, same parts and everything with some minor updates to stay relevant
@@electro_sykes uhh no. QTMPs are going to be based on a Hyundai Rotem design. NGRs are a Bombardier in the VLocity / Perth B Series / Adelaide 4000 family.
@@alexjago51 The NGRS look nothing like that, I think ur getting mixed up with the SMU 260/IMU 160 (the second newest trains on the network) which were delivered before the NGRs. Also the NGR and Hyundai rotem designs are very similar. We are better off just buying some C series trains like Perths. They have additional doors, new safety features, etc or we should just order more NGR's. Then we can have them rolling on the tracks sooner. The design is already there and being used.
They have announced flat 50¢ fares in August for 6 months, which should help boost ridership, but no further announcements regarding increasing train frequency to match. I’m grateful for the cheaper fares, but I am not looking forward to the inevitable overcrowding, which may well backfire the whole initiative.
the fare cost makes driving a viable option. use to be much cheaper than driving when i use to catch a train regularly.
looking forward to the completion of this.
I really hope the 50c fairs give a boost to ridership. Which then hopefully pushes the government to build more public transit. Cross River is great, but I'd love to see some new train lines built. As well as properly utilising the land around our stations.
I'm excited for the direct sunshine coast line and, if it ever goes ahead, the beaudesert line. I agree about the lack of TOD but that's more of an LGA thing so hard for the state gov to coordinate.
Where the CRR should have run is over ground elevated Bowen Hills to Perry park to Newstead then New-farm then bridge OR bridge across the river to west Bulimba and Hawthorne south along Norman Creek to pick up the southern lines.
Excuse my ignorance as maybe I just misunderstood. But with the Gold Coast line, is it now not going through south bank and south Brisbane? As someone who often buses to then get on a train, those two stations are by far the easiest as pretty much every southern bus line stops at south bank and south Brisbane. On the flip side, the southern buses often split their end destination between queen street and Roma street, so to me that just seems an odd idea to skip south bank station which was otherwise a very easy transition.
THere were several routes that could have been cheaper and over ground not under ground. That underground doesn't address the need for a cross river freight route. The main reason for that route choice is to feed more suckers into the CBD based casino.
this will do jack all to increase capacity, it will add 4 trains a hour to goldcoast to caboulture line.
Needs more train depot's as well. The problem with frequency and timetables is how to get the trains to the stations in the first place
The line from Toowoomba to Brisbane needs improvement. That whole area from there to Ipswich is booming. Needs a regular train like the Gold Coast line. Of course that will take serious investment to update line infrastructure itself.
“30 minutes” lol laughs in V/Line 1 hour waits 😞
Wrong, Brisbane is Australia's largest city by population and area. Sydney and Melbourne's official city boundaries are tiny compared to Brisbane's.
we really need something that gos thjough aspley to albany creek
Include Mcdowall- Bridgeman Downs & Warner into that mix too!
Agree. That whole area is a public transport deadzone. If you don't have a car there, you may as well be aparaplegic.
qr could eleviate the congestion across the river immediately by routing the GC/APT trains via tennyson and the western line which has a 4 track capacity….those trains have no need to go via park rd/south bank-brisbane
Watch them forget about actual connectivity. At the moment the airport line once it gets to eagle junction connects with, the airport line…
And that is a trend I expect them to continue.
I feel another reason for peak traffic being extremely overcrowded is due to the stigma from the pandemic making riders save a seat next to them, forcing riders to sit as 1 person per row per side (2 per row, excluding side seats). Even with the pandemic mostly gone, people still follow others and always leave a seat empty. Causing people to either stand right next to riders or have to wait for the next train.
What is needed in the eyes of the Public Servants, is to have a luxury abode just minutes from George street. Local and State government Politicians, and other Public Servants have already bough up parcels along the way. They knew before it was publicly announced, to "invest" in that area. Once it is announced, the uniformed take second place.
Brisbane does need to improve off-peak frequency on its suburban lines, to at least every 15 minutes. That could be done today, there is no need to wait for CRR to improve off-peak frequency. If there is an issue with lack of crews or other staff, it is time to start recruiting (or, heaven forbid, convert train operations to driver only and retrain guards as drivers).
Are you going to do a video about the Canberra Light Rail?
Probably not super soon but I will do it eventually!
No mention of the 50c fares coming in for a 6 month trial across the entire public transport network? This may see off peak patronage increase and hopefully therefore see a increase in the services provided
That will most likely end after the election. I don't think it will go long term.
How will this affect long distance services that use the exhibition line I wonder?
Could is the main thing. It Could. But it won’t. Because we don’t have enough people who would use it to make it profitable.
Brisbane is making the same mistake Melbourne did in the 70/80s. They should probably build a brand new light train metro line instead using narrower units allowing for small bore tunnels or one single tunnel to take both trains. Then in the future the heavy rail can have some of it's stations removed to allow faster express service into the city for those living in the outer suburbs, while also having the cheaper to operate high capacity metro providing the inter-connected network closer to the city with platform doors and semi-autonomous operation.
Brisbane/SEQ is unfortunately still in sprawl mode, so we do need the long distance commuter rail. CRR features 9-car stations (currently we run 6-car trains) so it is future proofing to an extent.
@@alexjago51 I'm not talking about removing the suburban rail, just that additions should focus on a metro rather than hybriding the suburban rail.
Also Brisbane should definitely stop sprawling... And remove it's river front freeways and highways.
Can we get some international scrutiny on the Melbourne Airport Rail?
It should have been built 60 years ago.
#avalonraillink
The sole reason that hasn't been built yet is because the airport operators don't want a rail link. Melbourne airport is not really an airport. Rather it's a giant, money-making carpark with runways attached.
@@jdillon8360 Agreed. I was hoping getting some international coverage may somehow help expedite things.
Oh no half a hour wait for a train. Meanwhile we get 3 trains a day here and its like a castle car 9 times out of 10
doomben line will actually run to indropilly
Melbourne doesn’t need a train to the airport, take note City Moose.
Just catch the skybus to the airport in peak hour traffic and you will change your mind
Do a metronet video plz
6 billion dollars for 2 and a half new stations. absurd
The point of this project is to increase capacity at the core of the network. Without it we can't really add new lines, or run more service on existing lines.
One thing at a time. You have the Olympics to balls up first. 😂
this is the bare minimum and a decade late because of shit city council that we decided to keep voting back in
No, it was actually the disastrous Campbell Newman LNP state government which canned the original Bligh Labor government CRR plan, completely redesigned it for no reason, then Labor had to pick up the pieces and return it to the original superior plan when they returned to power. Plus the Federal funding for the Bligh Govt plan was cancelled when the Abbott LNP govt was elected federally. Abbott gutted then stacked Infrastructure Australia with cronies which then claimed there was no business case. So all that white-anting by the LNP set us back a decade.
I was working for Queensland Rail in the late 2000s when preliminary plans were being prepared for Government.
@@coasterblocks3420 thanks for the explanation i appreciate it
LOL at the SkyNews reference, basically just a tabloid for entertainment and not actual real factual news.
Australian trains are just bad… even Melbourne off peak are terrible. Frequency is bad . Plenty of change over to bus between stations during off peak. Ridiculous.
Brisbane:
“Yaaaay we built a small tunnel under the river for our existing rail!!!”
Sydney:
“Okay.”
Vocal fry. Caution ...
Alright, is it just me or does the bloke yappin' look like AI? So many movements, seems borderline robotic.
It's you.
First comment
It wont change shit, why? WHY? Because the trians and fking busses dont link to where people WANT and NEED to GO! The river crossing is totally useless as well.