them: we want a self-starter, self-driven and passionate candidate. also them: you're self taught, direct and complete your own projects and hustle through troubleshooting your own problems? Yikes. How in the hell do they think there's no irony in this thinking?
We live in the age of hypocrisy and pointing out such hypocrisy is a hate crime where violence is warranted against you in order to terminate you with extreme prejudice in the name of love and tolerance for peace and security.
Well I do agree that you can just call yourself a software engeneer or sort of, just because many web developers end up doing all the things so you won't be just a web developer. But the thing about the degree, actually in europe, not sure where are you from, but many companies started to hire without requiring a degree. Half of the people i know don't have degrees but work as developers. I never saw someone that got rejected over someone with degree even if the knowledge and experience was better. Let's not talk about freelancing, where the degree matters even less.
I wish that we're true in the USA but it's simply not. I'm in Washington, DC. I don't know a single company that takes in programming managers without a degree. Maybe if you're already one somehow but nobody (for the most part) is going to make you a manager and give you that shot without some schooling. If you have the experience, you can get a job in this golden age, but we need to keep in mind that this field changes over the decades. What works now may not work in the future. I think people should future proof themselves by not saying I only do web. Even if that's the case, they write code and that code applies to games, mobile apps, GIS, ML/AI and more. We write code for a living and that code spans more than just the web.
@@realchrishawkes maybe because going to college in USA it's expensive and one that goes into college will learn and know something after. But for us, it's pretty cheap and the students need to learn more by themselves. That's why, if you don't do things on your own, a college degree helps you only to reduce 10% of taxes(in Romania) not sure about other countries. For sure that having knowledge and a degree will help you and give you an advantage, but it's on the second place for most.
@@ProgrammingwithPeter USA still calls the shots in IT, no offense to anyone out there. Most of the tech we work with, large companies etc... are in the USA. Even the Python creator from Denmark went to Reston, VA (right by where I live) and created Python there. As bad as that sounds, companies and developers in the USA are still writing the rule books in this field. What works now, may not work in the future. No question having a degree is better than not. It really boils down to whether or not this trend will continue but I'm not so sure that it will. If I had the opportunity to get my degree I would have, but I'm now in the field of people who probably never will. This is something I do contemplate regularly and it's certainly something which has affected me personally.
@@realchrishawkes for sure about USA, i just would say that my opinion is that the degree will matter less at least when talking about non-management jobs. Since the need for developers is getting larger day by day, eventually they will need more and more. Maybe i'm wrong, since i'm not from there, but if you think about it, this happened in europe and that's why there are many self taught developers because there are many jobs that doesn't require a degree. As a side joke, if you will be required to get a degree, you can always move in another country. I think time will tell us, but as of right now, the 'No degree. self taught dev' is still viable. I mean, from what you said, you are totally a living proof that you can learn software development and work without a degree.
@@ProgrammingwithPeter I agree with that and hope it continues to get larger as it has. I do worry about the products who centralize the development. A lot of companies used to hire direct freelancers and now they use shopify. If not that, they hire consulting agencies who centralize the work. The ability for one to jump in and work directly for a business that is not an IT company (most) is less and less each year.
Going to college basically tells the employer about your endurance and attention to detail. If you complete college, then at the very least you have the endurance to sit through things you don't like to do necessarily. If you graduate with a 4.0, you got superb attention to detail obviously. Process that as you may...(college is very important kids :)
I've worked in the industry for 30(ish) years and I've worked with a ton of people without degrees along the way - Army Vets, Marine Vets, an aircraft engine mechanic who did not have a college degree, a musician, and so-on and so-on - I've worked at companies listed in the top 10 and 20 of the S&P 500 and those huge companies hired people without degrees and promoted them into management positions - same with the very conservative oil and gas industry companies I've worked with here in Houston - once you are in a company your educational background matters less-and-less - is it easier to get hired with a degree, sure - but it matters less and less over time and I know a ton of people in the industry without degrees - hell - some of the biggest names in our industry do not have college degrees - all that said - don't let not having a degree stop you - you can get hired - you may have to work longer and harder and make less to start off, but you'll get parity in the end
It may be a DC thing but I don't know anybody getting hired as a manager from outside without a degree. I think it's safer to have one no doubt and many RUclipsrs advise to drop out and I think that's wrong.
Thx Chris. I went to a bootcamp and have mixed feelings about it. Most of what I learned I taught myself anyways through guys like you and Brad traversy. You have inspired me to go back to school and finish up my degree in CS while I work at my software engineering part time job.
You just have to do what you have to do. I don't have the answers but I think people are wrong when they say a degree does not matter. It's more lenient now due to demand but that changes.
This video is super valuable especially for new people trying to get into the industry. There is so much misinformation online and people giving out bad advice for their own benefit. This video needs to be seen by everyone to be honest to clear up the misinformation out there.
The harsh reality of this video needs to be revealed to everyone interested in this industry, however there's some things I'd like to highlight.. The first thing to mention is - being self taught is still a viable option. I feel like there may be some viewers who were looking into becoming self-taught who didn't have college as an option, who are now turned away to the Idea. Chris wasn't saying it's impossible to become a software engineer without a degree, its just *much* more difficult to become credible. You can tackle this industry head on if you've got that relentless motivation to do so, and that applies to most other industries as well, just be prepared to push yourself. There's plenty of legitimate companies offering high paying jobs without degrees because thats one of the new trends that has been going on. But that doesn't mean these jobs are any easier to get, if anything, it's now more difficult to get sought after jobs because there is much more competition now. The second thing I'd like to point out is, Chris claims you have a 0% shot at management without a degree, that's a pretty extreme blanket statement, you should know to be wary of those who make these kinds of statements and speak very authoritatively. This statement may be true at some companies, but if this is the case then don't bother investing your entire career into that company. That's awful business practices and its likely investor motivated, which is why I say don't bother committing your entire career into a company like that as they're a house of cards anyways. Another thing to put on your radar - management, is a system for organizing processes. If that wording didn't just spark an idea in your head, you might not be a software engineer. What I mean by this is, you probably shouldn't go after positions that can be replaced by software, such as management. I know of a very specific multi-billion dollar international software company that developed a simple and very effective "project manager" program which can be tiered. They used it to replace all of their project managers for every single development team regardless of location or time zone and now they market it as one of their solutions. Once set up, it can basically replace 90% of management positions, which you should all know is much more cost effective than paying someone a big salary over several years to manage the same teams, and thus, it will be appealing to investors, which means "bye bye" management positions. Chris was right about a constantly changing industry, but it's not like any of us weren't already aware of it.
Thanks for this, I'm from the same state as Chris and what I got after watching this video was don't even bother learning nor applying if you don't have a degree. I'm the only one working while my wife goes to school and watches our kid. I usually code a few hours between 9-12 after work and thought if I could invest a year and a half of learning and have a "good portfolio" I can apply to 200 places and get 1 offer lol.
I couldn't get a job without a degree either, so I did 1 semester at tech school software degree, then lied and said I was 3 years into my degree and would be finishing soon. Wouldn't you know it, got hired, and then quite school on the down low. Every resume I submit will still say software degree from tech school, and I doubt anyone will ever look into it. Just some advice for someone who doesn't want to be in debt, but needs to get passed HR.
He's the only person I could find who uses the term software engineer instead of web developer. Google refers to us as web developers and they have self taught people working for them, no deploma required.
With 4 years of coding, you gain practical knowledge and experience. With 4 years of school, you get a a piece of paper, a pile of debt, and no real coding experience. Degree or not, its about having connections, meeting people and being unique from the crowd. Half of the developers i know dont have a degree (ny state area) but they still sacrificed a lot to get where they are
I don’t have a cs degree but I graduated from college with a degree in business administration that I’m proud of, I’m learning about this software developer industry while working a full time job and spending most my free with html css JavaScript and php. I actually have a site hosted, it’s not the best looking site but I actually completed a project on my own with my own thoughts and not from following examples. I’m wanting to make a career change because I’m sooo intrigued by the challenge and being able to create something awesome. But the barrier to entry is going to be tough I know it is... where should my next move be, what are your thoughts on the transitioning phase
I went to school for business administration as well and dropped out. I'm not far from graduating. I may go back. I think you'll find getting a job with that degree is way easier than you think. It's a good all around degree which most certainly applies to IT. Keep plugging away. I don't think you'll have that big of a problem landing your first gig if you keep practicing.
Chris Hawkes, thanks mr. Hawkes, I had to grind sooo hard to get where I’m at today but I wanna grow more and not stay stagnant. I learned that the journey to success has lots of bumps and scrapes and those bumps and scrapes are what defenses you, so I like my bumps and scrapes... without them I wouldn’t have this opportunity.
I have a degree in finance. Im trying the data engineer role as a transitional one to swe. I made a python/data blog site, github, made some tools at my job voluntarily (small company) and i have gotten some good interviews should get a decent data/scripting job. I plan on getting my masters in cs just in case though. I know for big corporations (like banks) they literally will not consider you for a swe job with no CS degree. Leetcode practice and side projects can get you into google i heard.
Sonny, that just awesome thanks for sharing your story, and I hope you get the job, and yea unfortunately the cs degree can be the barrier to entry with some major companies out their, I hope to land a decent position with a good company without the barriers... time will tell
Thank you for this video. I market myself as a WordPress Developer. Can I just call myself as a Software Engineer? I've long been debating what I should call myself (web designer or developer) and just ended up focusing on WordPress as that's my most marketable skill. Would love your thoughts on this.
Have you created any software yet? If you've only done websites/pages you're a web developer. If you created web applications or you have experience creating desktop applications/software. You are now a software developer/engineer. Designers are very good at html, css, photoshop and other things that have to do with the look of a website. Designers dont have to be concerned with functionality. Front-end developers are concerned with both the design aspects of a website and it's functionality. Hope that clears some things up.
Still CS student. If I say and show to my employer (in real case scenario) that I created indoor navigation system for phones and web administration tools for system managment for it, is it still not better than degree? What's your take on this? Still better to have a degree than real life project? Want to hear your opinion.
If you're in school I would stick with it and do whatever you have to on the side. If you start rolling in money or a great idea, okay quit. 10 years from now you may want that degree and all those on RUclips who said they didn't need it might be living in an apartment and working at Starbucks.
I completely agree about bootcamps , as I have graduated one myself. They promise you all this shit you will be able to do, but after finishing it I knew nothing. I sat through the lectures with no replay button. Learned everything on self-taught route afterwards, way more efficient honestly..
Yeah, so many complexities are being abstracted away. Dropbox created a type checking compiler for Python. This field is probably going to get pretty crowded in a few years. Im trying to hedge my bets by getting a masters in CS.
Get PHD if you can. Even Masters is useless now. There are already many people getting Masters now. I know coz I got one. But if you are doing Masters, then do a thesis option. There are some univs that allow you to do non-thesis Masters which is useless.
Hi Chris, the word you said "be an enterpruner" give me a strengthen what to do for my future. I got a IT degree and had been work in the IT industry as software developer. After working a year, I realized I more like working by myself as everything is under my control. I have ideas for projects or business but I am afraid it is going to work or success plus I don't have business knowledge. I always tell my ideas to my sister. She said your ideas is good from teachnology point of view but not from business. In that case, how should I balence between functionality or quality of product and making money? Any ideas or books or course would you recommend to overcome that problem. Your truly fan. Cheers
I've tried applying in DC and I was close multiple times, and I've gotta say it is hard to find a position without a degree in DC, but it is not impossible. I met a person that didn't have a degree, certificate or bootcamp to vouch for him, but he did have an AWS certification which led him to obtain a developer job within a month from his AWS certification
Hey Chris . Thanks for the wonderful videos. Can you please guide on how to get a sound knowledge of DS and Algo, in order to get a Software engineering job?
I can try. This is an area where having a solid understanding helps a ton but mostly to get through the terrible interview experience which exists in this industry.
Does degree major matter? Like you said, having a degree will make the job search process much easier, but do employers actually care about what you studied, or do they just want to see that you committed to something for 4+ years? I ask this because right now, I'm studying Computer Science, but after looking over all of my credits, I would be able to graduate with a BS in Information Science and Technology about a year earlier than if I were to stick with CS. Doing so would keep my student loans relatively low at around 20k compared to the 35k+ that I might have to take out if I were to stay for that extra year in CS. Obviously there are a lot of benefits to pursuing more technical / rigorous degrees, but are those benefits worth the extra financial burden?
All is crystal clear but can you make explain do you like entrepreneur work alone or you have someone else to work with you for making design and e-commerce sites etc and then deploying and maintenance sites or you doing all that staff Do you think that one person can do all this for themselves?
Good thing I enrolled in college after getting out of the army. I was studying programming while I was in and was close to just going straight onto the workforce after becoming a veteran because of all the bloggers and youtubers preaching that you dont need a degree. I decided to go for college in the end because I didn't want my GI Bill to go to waste and felt that a degree might help me get promoted faster later in my career. The only annoying thing is my state college calls their CS degree "Computing and Informatics" which I feel might look slightly worse to a future employer.
It must be a DC thing because where I live I’ve had no issues getting jobs without a degree. Yet again I’m a Node/React guy which I feel might be the sweet spot when it comes to getting work without a degree. I feel like if you want a job in Java or Python, a degree becomes more neccessary. At least that’s what I typically see on the job postings for Java and Python. I’ve gone back and forth on whether or not I want to persue a CS degree and I know that it definitly won’t count against me but I’m trying to factor in the worth of it given the amount of success that I’ve had so far in my area without one. In fact, a buddy of mine who got his CS degree and working in embedded systems makes 40k less a year than I do. It could just be the demand difference but I definilty believe that with or without a degree, you have to be able to market yourself. If you can do that without a degree I feel like it’s worth skipping the formal education. Plus I’m already trying to pay off my wifes student loans and I don’t want to prolonge that process any longer than I have to. lol
Damn not going to lie, as a current bootcamp student that part about people from them is a bit hard to hear. But I can't fault you for just speaking the truth. Though I do feel like the one I chose is probably one of the better ones, if not the best. I know that statement is highly self serving but I'm fairly realistic in general and would say differently if I felt so. I actually have an income share agreement so the my opinion of it at a high level is that at the very least the bootcamp's financial incentive is properly aligned with my own professional goals. If I don't get hired, they don't get paid and that means they've wasted resources. Being that they're backed wholly by VCs, I see this as a positive. It also is pretty well rounded and their standards for continuing are fairly high. But one of the biggest things I think I may have going for me is that I actually got hired to basically monitor my own group of new students and grade their work, so I get to put that on my resume. I just finished the front end section and I've learned html, css, react and redux, not counting the various libraries we've touched on and dev ops tools like git. I'll be learning node starting next week then it's on to python for some cs stuff and oop. I don't really expect to get hired right away when I finish but I do feel like they're giving me a strong base to start from and that I'll be able to more easily learn things in the future. I'm also basically obsessed with this stuff now and have always been kind of a half added autodidact, so I'm fairly confident that I'll be willing to continue my education indefinitely on my own. I guess now that I've written all of this I realize that I'm probably trying to justify my decision. Whether that be to you, to the people who read the comments or to my own self, I honestly don't know. But I do truly feel like I'm on an indefinitely better path than I was as a worker on a log crew/ in a sawmill in N. Michigan.
What exactly do you mean when you say management? Surely there are positions where you'd have authority over others, but wouldn't be considered "management"
@@realchrishawkes Ok, so team lead is management, but Sr dev is just that, Sr dev, not management? Does that mean your chances of becoming a team lead are slim without a degree?
At some companies yes, you have no shot. Even the ones where it's possible, you can still be turned down due to not having one while the other applicants do. This has personally happened to me on multiple occasions. I've been a senior developer for many years now and I don't have a degree. So yes, you can be a senior engineer/programmer without a degree, it's not uncommon. Managers without a degree that didn't come from their own startup, less common. At least from what I've seen in the DC area.
Tbh in CA they have become a lot more relaxed on degree requirements. I am self-taught but also am going back to college to finish. I am almost done. If anything I'll have that piece of paper as back up even though my skills speak for themselves.
Chris Hawkes Yes hopefully so. I see your point though as I have friends who don’t know as much as me in the realm of programming as a whole who kinda condescend me just became they have a degree so I could see that happening to employees
On the last part of your video where you mention about some RUclipsrs spouting crap out of their mouths is absolutely true. I have noted two RUclipsrs one in particular who just did four months of self-taught as a developer and hasn't been a programming for not even a year. Who is talking about the importance of Math as a Software developer and why you won't be a good software developer if you don't improve your math skills? After hearing this I quickly unsubscribed and most of it was contrary to what real experienced developers would speak about from their years upon years of experience. As always excellent video Chris and keep on creating good content.
Thanks for the video, but now I have a real dilemma. I was considering to start a 3-month "web development" bootcamp that teaches html, css, js, react, git and some more tools and methodologies like scrum. It sounds pretty good and I don't have to pay for it (for reasons). I'm also pusuing a CS degree in part time, actually more like on the weekends where I live. It's a cool state university that offers this curriculum for people who want for example a normal CS degree but on the side so to say, with most people who take it have full time jobs. It's pretty stressful but definitely made possible, Bachelors in 4.5 years and Masters another 3.5 years, so it's streched for obvious reasons. So should I just stick with the degree for now and not take the bootcamp that I could take on the week days because I don't have a job at the moment. I wanted the bootcamp to land me a job because I don't yet have the degree, but will it maybe drag down my degree at the end? Are bootcamps only for people who can't do it on their own? I'm not sure. I'm also not exactly a beginner. I used to have 2 Jobs as a software dev, each for 2 years before (both jobs were actually for education in combination with work, I don't know what they call it in the US, i'm from Europe) but I never learned web programming there, just some Java and an obscure Database language. I learned the hard way that I'm not very employable, even after 3.5 years doing this stuff and learning every day. But now I'm actually learning much faster because those 3.5 years did give me all the fundamentals to pick up new things quickly. I just need to know what to do next. Bootcamp and degree or just focus on the degree? Instead of the bootcamp I could take another 8 month course to get certified in Java or C#, .Net. But that would be something I already kind of done before. I have never done web programming before, so that's what really gets me excited right now. But I do want to get the job at end of the day for the most part. I just don't want to work for a big bank or something (did that and it's not for me). You can get a lot more money working at a big bank in IT, but the work is dull, the people you work with are dull (mostly all the people are older in those huge financial companies I've noticed, 50 and above, and never changed the company), and it's not worth the money in my opinion. I think it really depends on the company for how much you enjoy your job, and for me working at something similar to bank of america in europe had a lot of salary, but I was miserable every day. I'm glad I don't have to go there anymore. Something more reasonable, but still a bigger company is the way to go in my opinion. Maybe degrees aren't as important there as in bank of america. Just needed to get this out to people who think the biggest comapny will be the best choice and therefore think they definitely need some kind of degree. A degree will never hurt though.
I think so yes. The industry started moving titles like Programmer, Programmer Analyst, Full Stack Developer, DevOps Engineer to Software Engineer. It's an all around encompassing term which defines what we do (write software & configure technology). I create games, databases and more, so I don't want to be a web developer. I can write web apps but I can also do a lot more than that so I prefer the title Software Engineer. You can be a web developer but it's better to be a Software Engineer who focuses mostly on web development. Same thing but you're not stove piped into one role.
Software developer is about the same thing as engineer. You're not sticking to one field which is good so I see no problem with that role actually. I thought I read web developer. My bad.
@@realchrishawkes What do you mean by creating databases ? Is it like mySQL/SQLite/MongoDB ? Btw Michael Widenius, the creator of mySQL, didn't finish his school, but I guess he has solid knowledge on database theory during his school at University and/or self-taught through reading standard textbooks by Korth-Silberschatz, C.J Date or Ramez Elmasri. I didn't finish reading the books, because my interest changed.
Yeah good advice, go to IT college at least doesn't matter the name. After 3-4 years of massive struggle and learning this is when somebody will start to pay you something. Loads of BS on youtube on this topic. Chris you are right on the money here!
You know if you want to call yourself an engineer perhaps you should get a degree in engineering..... That is what qualifies you to use that title. That is one of my pet peeves in this industry. Everyone calls themselves an engineer without having taken a single course to get their engineering degree. I think you should call yourself what you really are: a WEB DEVELOPER.
Thank you for watching. We will all get our shot if we work hard enough. We have to do whatever it takes and this is just one piece of advice I have for the industry right now. Half of the developers I've worked with professionally do not have computer science degrees but they are software engineers and do more than just web, myself included.
On the subject of youtubers selling out: This is actually a comment for your "How Much Are 100k Subscribers Worth On RUclips?" video, Im commenting on an old video because I dont want to stir up a debate with your followers. I notice that you have a very long Linode ad in front of all your videos which any sane person would just scrub their time slider through. And lets be honest, the reason you do that is because every sane person has ad blockers installed on their browser so youtube ads really dont mean anything. Thats not a smart move for either you or Linode, youre going to turn off viewers by having such a long ad, and Linode is really not going to get views because everyone just moves past it. If you limit the time of that ad to 10 or 15 seconds people might actually watch it and not be bothered by it. If you really feel strongly about responsible content, then you should set an example by not running intrusive ads.
Hey, nice video and very good advices. I like that you unmask the ideal world that some youtubers tells. But your words and thinking can be demotivating in some cases like mine. I would love to make a CS degree but I'm 31 years old and I really don't find it a good time-invest. I know it's harder this self-taught way, but it's so expensive for me otherwise. I'm from South America and I'm going to live in Europe in a few months. Can't tell you why but I don't spect to be that hard as you explain it is in the USA, at least in the market you are experienced. So may be you are right but a CS degree it's not for everyone (and I'm not talking about cognitive capacities). Thank you!
@@realchrishawkes I want to end building my own company, that's for sure, just now I need a lot of experience in the industry both technical and entrepreneurial. I'm also starting to have freelance jobs and I have a journey ahead where I will be working remotely some time. So I'm deciding on the go. Btw I come from network industry.
The degree is not what gets you the job. Computer Science has become an over saturated major now. You need to do what all these people wont do. Actually go out into the real world and talk to people. If you can't create connections/relationships with people then your're just hoping for something to fall on your lap.
I am not at all interested in developing local or native applications. That's why I call myself a web developer. College majors are defined by "web development" or "software development" or "computer science" etc. I think its just fine calling yourself a web developer.
I just want to add, DO NOT WRITE SELF TAUGHT on your LinkedIn or resume, I’m sure most of you know this but me been a dipshit didn’t, now I’m getting tons of phone calls from recruiters sell yourself high opportunities will come.
I hope I don't come off as too negative. I'm trying to help people. Many RUclipsrs say whatever is positive just like self-help books that concentrate their point on a few success stories and ignore the graveyard of failed developers and entrepreneurs who tried to follow the advice and failed. There are way more of them than the other way around. I think people should do whatever they want and whatever will make them happy. There is no one route or piece of advice that works for all. People need to just be as creative and ambitious as possible. At the very least they will be better off than they were before.
this is super biased. you keep stating extremes, but most software jobs are regular programming jobs that pay 55-90k / year and are enjoyable and let you have side projects, etc etc. its true you have to stay up to date, but there are companies that will pay to have training for employees to learn new frameworks and tech stacks... from personal experience, I haven't encountered most of the negatives you've listed about programming jobs. I feel like you're only stating the truth which exists in a small percentage of the industry.
them: we want a self-starter, self-driven and passionate candidate.
also them: you're self taught, direct and complete your own projects and hustle through troubleshooting your own problems? Yikes.
How in the hell do they think there's no irony in this thinking?
Agreed
I dont understand, pls explain.
Please elaborate
@@poetlorryit It's contradictory for hiring managers to be looking for a 'self-starter' while being turned off by a job candidate who is self taught.
We live in the age of hypocrisy and pointing out such hypocrisy is a hate crime where violence is warranted against you in order to terminate you with extreme prejudice in the name of love and tolerance for peace and security.
Appreciate the clear cut, no bs answers. Thanks.
Glad to help
Well I do agree that you can just call yourself a software engeneer or sort of, just because many web developers end up doing all the things so you won't be just a web developer. But the thing about the degree, actually in europe, not sure where are you from, but many companies started to hire without requiring a degree. Half of the people i know don't have degrees but work as developers. I never saw someone that got rejected over someone with degree even if the knowledge and experience was better. Let's not talk about freelancing, where the degree matters even less.
I wish that we're true in the USA but it's simply not. I'm in Washington, DC. I don't know a single company that takes in programming managers without a degree. Maybe if you're already one somehow but nobody (for the most part) is going to make you a manager and give you that shot without some schooling. If you have the experience, you can get a job in this golden age, but we need to keep in mind that this field changes over the decades. What works now may not work in the future. I think people should future proof themselves by not saying I only do web. Even if that's the case, they write code and that code applies to games, mobile apps, GIS, ML/AI and more. We write code for a living and that code spans more than just the web.
@@realchrishawkes maybe because going to college in USA it's expensive and one that goes into college will learn and know something after. But for us, it's pretty cheap and the students need to learn more by themselves. That's why, if you don't do things on your own, a college degree helps you only to reduce 10% of taxes(in Romania) not sure about other countries. For sure that having knowledge and a degree will help you and give you an advantage, but it's on the second place for most.
@@ProgrammingwithPeter USA still calls the shots in IT, no offense to anyone out there. Most of the tech we work with, large companies etc... are in the USA. Even the Python creator from Denmark went to Reston, VA (right by where I live) and created Python there. As bad as that sounds, companies and developers in the USA are still writing the rule books in this field. What works now, may not work in the future. No question having a degree is better than not. It really boils down to whether or not this trend will continue but I'm not so sure that it will. If I had the opportunity to get my degree I would have, but I'm now in the field of people who probably never will. This is something I do contemplate regularly and it's certainly something which has affected me personally.
@@realchrishawkes for sure about USA, i just would say that my opinion is that the degree will matter less at least when talking about non-management jobs. Since the need for developers is getting larger day by day, eventually they will need more and more. Maybe i'm wrong, since i'm not from there, but if you think about it, this happened in europe and that's why there are many self taught developers because there are many jobs that doesn't require a degree. As a side joke, if you will be required to get a degree, you can always move in another country. I think time will tell us, but as of right now, the 'No degree. self taught dev' is still viable. I mean, from what you said, you are totally a living proof that you can learn software development and work without a degree.
@@ProgrammingwithPeter I agree with that and hope it continues to get larger as it has. I do worry about the products who centralize the development. A lot of companies used to hire direct freelancers and now they use shopify. If not that, they hire consulting agencies who centralize the work. The ability for one to jump in and work directly for a business that is not an IT company (most) is less and less each year.
Going to college basically tells the employer about your endurance and attention to detail. If you complete college, then at the very least you have the endurance to sit through things you don't like to do necessarily. If you graduate with a 4.0, you got superb attention to detail obviously. Process that as you may...(college is very important kids :)
I've worked in the industry for 30(ish) years and I've worked with a ton of people without degrees along the way - Army Vets, Marine Vets, an aircraft engine mechanic who did not have a college degree, a musician, and so-on and so-on - I've worked at companies listed in the top 10 and 20 of the S&P 500 and those huge companies hired people without degrees and promoted them into management positions - same with the very conservative oil and gas industry companies I've worked with here in Houston - once you are in a company your educational background matters less-and-less - is it easier to get hired with a degree, sure - but it matters less and less over time and I know a ton of people in the industry without degrees - hell - some of the biggest names in our industry do not have college degrees - all that said - don't let not having a degree stop you - you can get hired - you may have to work longer and harder and make less to start off, but you'll get parity in the end
It may be a DC thing but I don't know anybody getting hired as a manager from outside without a degree. I think it's safer to have one no doubt and many RUclipsrs advise to drop out and I think that's wrong.
Chris Hawkes probably a DC thing bro, you’re living with a bunch of high nosed people over there
"Your days of being called a web developer are over. From here on out, you will be known as, 'The ActionScript 1.0 Master!'."
This is like one of your most useful vids man. Love it.
Thank you
Thx Chris. I went to a bootcamp and have mixed feelings about it. Most of what I learned I taught myself anyways through guys like you and Brad traversy. You have inspired me to go back to school and finish up my degree in CS while I work at my software engineering part time job.
You just have to do what you have to do. I don't have the answers but I think people are wrong when they say a degree does not matter. It's more lenient now due to demand but that changes.
Damn Chris
That dose of truth
Your videos were in my recommendation.
Worth it !!
Thank you brother! RUclips is down now, I'll bring it back
This video is super valuable especially for new people trying to get into the industry. There is so much misinformation online and people giving out bad advice for their own benefit. This video needs to be seen by everyone to be honest to clear up the misinformation out there.
After many years of listening to your videos, this is one of the best I've seen so far. Very candid opinions revealed here.
Thank you for watching!
The harsh reality of this video needs to be revealed to everyone interested in this industry, however there's some things I'd like to highlight..
The first thing to mention is - being self taught is still a viable option. I feel like there may be some viewers who were looking into becoming self-taught who didn't have college as an option, who are now turned away to the Idea. Chris wasn't saying it's impossible to become a software engineer without a degree, its just *much* more difficult to become credible. You can tackle this industry head on if you've got that relentless motivation to do so, and that applies to most other industries as well, just be prepared to push yourself.
There's plenty of legitimate companies offering high paying jobs without degrees because thats one of the new trends that has been going on. But that doesn't mean these jobs are any easier to get, if anything, it's now more difficult to get sought after jobs because there is much more competition now.
The second thing I'd like to point out is, Chris claims you have a 0% shot at management without a degree, that's a pretty extreme blanket statement, you should know to be wary of those who make these kinds of statements and speak very authoritatively. This statement may be true at some companies, but if this is the case then don't bother investing your entire career into that company. That's awful business practices and its likely investor motivated, which is why I say don't bother committing your entire career into a company like that as they're a house of cards anyways. Another thing to put on your radar - management, is a system for organizing processes. If that wording didn't just spark an idea in your head, you might not be a software engineer.
What I mean by this is, you probably shouldn't go after positions that can be replaced by software, such as management. I know of a very specific multi-billion dollar international software company that developed a simple and very effective "project manager" program which can be tiered. They used it to replace all of their project managers for every single development team regardless of location or time zone and now they market it as one of their solutions. Once set up, it can basically replace 90% of management positions, which you should all know is much more cost effective than paying someone a big salary over several years to manage the same teams, and thus, it will be appealing to investors, which means "bye bye" management positions. Chris was right about a constantly changing industry, but it's not like any of us weren't already aware of it.
Thanks for this, I'm from the same state as Chris and what I got after watching this video was don't even bother learning nor applying if you don't have a degree. I'm the only one working while my wife goes to school and watches our kid. I usually code a few hours between 9-12 after work and thought if I could invest a year and a half of learning and have a "good portfolio" I can apply to 200 places and get 1 offer lol.
Your content keeps getting better Chris!
thank you!
I couldn't get a job without a degree either, so I did 1 semester at tech school software degree, then lied and said I was 3 years into my degree and would be finishing soon. Wouldn't you know it, got hired, and then quite school on the down low. Every resume I submit will still say software degree from tech school, and I doubt anyone will ever look into it. Just some advice for someone who doesn't want to be in debt, but needs to get passed HR.
That can be bad though. Yahoo ousted their CEO for that a few years back. Although, I guess in his case he said he actually graduated.
He's the only person I could find who uses the term software engineer instead of web developer. Google refers to us as web developers and they have self taught people working for them, no deploma required.
Quite a common term actually.
@@realchrishawkes Good to know that, the term certainly does apply the only difference you could say is one refers to web as opposed to desktop.
Are you saying if you’re self-taught don’t try getting a software engineering job, if you don’t have one already?
No, more like build your product and get better than anyone else, degreed or not. You'll get your shot then regardless.
@@realchrishawkes that's what I've been doing. build something
How do you feel about Webmasters? From experience, it's become a digital marketing role and less technical
I made projects using react, node and mongoDB. Am I a software engineer, full stack webdev, ... ? What's the best choise to call myself?
Man, your words resonate deeply with me on a bunch of different levels
Thank you for watching!
With 4 years of coding, you gain practical knowledge and experience. With 4 years of school, you get a a piece of paper, a pile of debt, and no real coding experience. Degree or not, its about having connections, meeting people and being unique from the crowd. Half of the developers i know dont have a degree (ny state area) but they still sacrificed a lot to get where they are
Connections come and go. Networking is huge for sure. I think it's safer to have the degree.
What about having a management degree?
Seems pretty valuable to me.
I don’t have a cs degree but I graduated from college with a degree in business administration that I’m proud of, I’m learning about this software developer industry while working a full time job and spending most my free with html css JavaScript and php. I actually have a site hosted, it’s not the best looking site but I actually completed a project on my own with my own thoughts and not from following examples. I’m wanting to make a career change because I’m sooo intrigued by the challenge and being able to create something awesome. But the barrier to entry is going to be tough I know it is... where should my next move be, what are your thoughts on the transitioning phase
Best of luck!
I went to school for business administration as well and dropped out. I'm not far from graduating. I may go back. I think you'll find getting a job with that degree is way easier than you think. It's a good all around degree which most certainly applies to IT. Keep plugging away. I don't think you'll have that big of a problem landing your first gig if you keep practicing.
Chris Hawkes, thanks mr. Hawkes, I had to grind sooo hard to get where I’m at today but I wanna grow more and not stay stagnant. I learned that the journey to success has lots of bumps and scrapes and those bumps and scrapes are what defenses you, so I like my bumps and scrapes... without them I wouldn’t have this opportunity.
I have a degree in finance. Im trying the data engineer role as a transitional one to swe. I made a python/data blog site, github, made some tools at my job voluntarily (small company) and i have gotten some good interviews should get a decent data/scripting job. I plan on getting my masters in cs just in case though. I know for big corporations (like banks) they literally will not consider you for a swe job with no CS degree. Leetcode practice and side projects can get you into google i heard.
Sonny, that just awesome thanks for sharing your story, and I hope you get the job, and yea unfortunately the cs degree can be the barrier to entry with some major companies out their, I hope to land a decent position with a good company without the barriers... time will tell
Thank you for this video. I market myself as a WordPress Developer. Can I just call myself as a Software Engineer? I've long been debating what I should call myself (web designer or developer) and just ended up focusing on WordPress as that's my most marketable skill. Would love your thoughts on this.
Have you created any software yet? If you've only done websites/pages you're a web developer. If you created web applications or you have experience creating desktop applications/software. You are now a software developer/engineer.
Designers are very good at html, css, photoshop and other things that have to do with the look of a website. Designers dont have to be concerned with functionality. Front-end developers are concerned with both the design aspects of a website and it's functionality.
Hope that clears some things up.
I am calling myself a software engineer from now onwards. But what if you want to specify that you are dealing with the web and not any other?
Still CS student. If I say and show to my employer (in real case scenario) that I created indoor navigation system for phones and web administration tools for system managment for it, is it still not better than degree? What's your take on this? Still better to have a degree than real life project? Want to hear your opinion.
If you're in school I would stick with it and do whatever you have to on the side. If you start rolling in money or a great idea, okay quit. 10 years from now you may want that degree and all those on RUclips who said they didn't need it might be living in an apartment and working at Starbucks.
I completely agree about bootcamps , as I have graduated one myself. They promise you all this shit you will be able to do, but after finishing it I knew nothing. I sat through the lectures with no replay button. Learned everything on self-taught route afterwards, way more efficient honestly..
The timeframe for those programs is astronomically aggressive. Even the smartest in the world can't be that good after 3 months.
Yeah, so many complexities are being abstracted away. Dropbox created a type checking compiler for Python. This field is probably going to get pretty crowded in a few years. Im trying to hedge my bets by getting a masters in CS.
Get PHD if you can. Even Masters is useless now. There are already many people getting Masters now. I know coz I got one. But if you are doing Masters, then do a thesis option. There are some univs that allow you to do non-thesis Masters which is useless.
@@blasttrash Masters in CS?
@@GodsNode s
Hi Chris, the word you said "be an enterpruner" give me a strengthen what to do for my future. I got a IT degree and had been work in the IT industry as software developer. After working a year, I realized I more like working by myself as everything is under my control. I have ideas for projects or business but I am afraid it is going to work or success plus I don't have business knowledge. I always tell my ideas to my sister. She said your ideas is good from teachnology point of view but not from business. In that case, how should I balence between functionality or quality of product and making money? Any ideas or books or course would you recommend to overcome that problem. Your truly fan. Cheers
I've tried applying in DC and I was close multiple times, and I've gotta say it is hard to find a position without a degree in DC, but it is not impossible. I met a person that didn't have a degree, certificate or bootcamp to vouch for him, but he did have an AWS certification which led him to obtain a developer job within a month from his AWS certification
What I don't see people talking about is dealing with management and bossy people.
This is real talk. No B.S. I agree to your point.
Thanks for watching!
Hey Chris . Thanks for the wonderful videos. Can you please guide on how to get a sound knowledge of DS and Algo, in order to get a Software engineering job?
I can try. This is an area where having a solid understanding helps a ton but mostly to get through the terrible interview experience which exists in this industry.
Does degree major matter? Like you said, having a degree will make the job search process much easier, but do employers actually care about what you studied, or do they just want to see that you committed to something for 4+ years? I ask this because right now, I'm studying Computer Science, but after looking over all of my credits, I would be able to graduate with a BS in Information Science and Technology about a year earlier than if I were to stick with CS. Doing so would keep my student loans relatively low at around 20k compared to the 35k+ that I might have to take out if I were to stay for that extra year in CS. Obviously there are a lot of benefits to pursuing more technical / rigorous degrees, but are those benefits worth the extra financial burden?
What about someone who may have a degree but it is not related to software? Is that still better than no degree?
Definitely better than no degree for sure.
"limit the amount of youtubers RUclips listen to". Starting right now
Not me of course :)
@@realchrishawkes ;)
This is the most realest video I have ever seen you make Chris!!!.
All is crystal clear but can you make explain do you like entrepreneur work alone or you have someone else to work with you for
making design and e-commerce sites etc and then deploying and maintenance sites or you doing all that staff
Do you think that one person can do all this for themselves?
Good thing I enrolled in college after getting out of the army. I was studying programming while I was in and was close to just going straight onto the workforce after becoming a veteran because of all the bloggers and youtubers preaching that you dont need a degree. I decided to go for college in the end because I didn't want my GI Bill to go to waste and felt that a degree might help me get promoted faster later in my career. The only annoying thing is my state college calls their CS degree "Computing and Informatics" which I feel might look slightly worse to a future employer.
I would much rather have a degree than not.
Very well said, and exactly what I'm doing.
It must be a DC thing because where I live I’ve had no issues getting jobs without a degree. Yet again I’m a Node/React guy which I feel might be the sweet spot when it comes to getting work without a degree. I feel like if you want a job in Java or Python, a degree becomes more neccessary. At least that’s what I typically see on the job postings for Java and Python. I’ve gone back and forth on whether or not I want to persue a CS degree and I know that it definitly won’t count against me but I’m trying to factor in the worth of it given the amount of success that I’ve had so far in my area without one. In fact, a buddy of mine who got his CS degree and working in embedded systems makes 40k less a year than I do. It could just be the demand difference but I definilty believe that with or without a degree, you have to be able to market yourself. If you can do that without a degree I feel like it’s worth skipping the formal education. Plus I’m already trying to pay off my wifes student loans and I don’t want to prolonge that process any longer than I have to. lol
So what do i really call myself, just started with HTML CSS :p
all due respect, nothing
Hi Chris! I want to ask you about Linode and also career related. How can I reach you?
Just curious, when you’re talking about degrees, are you referring to CS degrees or just bachelor degrees in general?
Degrees in general mostly. Some IT companies will not let you manage without a specific CS degree though.
I'm in the process of ruining my relationship with my girlfriend while learning to code right now.
I've been there. Sadly, this profession strains relationships more than others.
@@realchrishawkes happened with me too, and at 23 I'm thinkking I will ever be able to be with someone
Leave her bro, Cuz if you got no bread, she will leave your for someone that makes more money then you.
You gotta make that bread no matter what.
Atta boy
@@joelpeterson4263Thanks, I do what I can.
Damn... this is REAL as fuck... thank you.
Damn not going to lie, as a current bootcamp student that part about people from them is a bit hard to hear. But I can't fault you for just speaking the truth. Though I do feel like the one I chose is probably one of the better ones, if not the best. I know that statement is highly self serving but I'm fairly realistic in general and would say differently if I felt so. I actually have an income share agreement so the my opinion of it at a high level is that at the very least the bootcamp's financial incentive is properly aligned with my own professional goals. If I don't get hired, they don't get paid and that means they've wasted resources. Being that they're backed wholly by VCs, I see this as a positive. It also is pretty well rounded and their standards for continuing are fairly high. But one of the biggest things I think I may have going for me is that I actually got hired to basically monitor my own group of new students and grade their work, so I get to put that on my resume. I just finished the front end section and I've learned html, css, react and redux, not counting the various libraries we've touched on and dev ops tools like git. I'll be learning node starting next week then it's on to python for some cs stuff and oop. I don't really expect to get hired right away when I finish but I do feel like they're giving me a strong base to start from and that I'll be able to more easily learn things in the future. I'm also basically obsessed with this stuff now and have always been kind of a half added autodidact, so I'm fairly confident that I'll be willing to continue my education indefinitely on my own. I guess now that I've written all of this I realize that I'm probably trying to justify my decision. Whether that be to you, to the people who read the comments or to my own self, I honestly don't know. But I do truly feel like I'm on an indefinitely better path than I was as a worker on a log crew/ in a sawmill in N. Michigan.
What exactly do you mean when you say management?
Surely there are positions where you'd have authority over others, but wouldn't be considered "management"
Lead programmers typically are considered management roles.
@@realchrishawkes Ok, so team lead is management, but Sr dev is just that, Sr dev, not management?
Does that mean your chances of becoming a team lead are slim without a degree?
At some companies yes, you have no shot. Even the ones where it's possible, you can still be turned down due to not having one while the other applicants do. This has personally happened to me on multiple occasions. I've been a senior developer for many years now and I don't have a degree. So yes, you can be a senior engineer/programmer without a degree, it's not uncommon. Managers without a degree that didn't come from their own startup, less common. At least from what I've seen in the DC area.
@@realchrishawkes Yeah makes sense, thanks for the response. Yours is one of the better tech channels
Tbh in CA they have become a lot more relaxed on degree requirements. I am self-taught but also am going back to college to finish. I am almost done. If anything I'll have that piece of paper as back up even though my skills speak for themselves.
That's nice to hear. I feel like that's not the case over here but maybe I'm wrong.
Chris Hawkes Yes hopefully so. I see your point though as I have friends who don’t know as much as me in the realm of programming as a whole who kinda condescend me just became they have a degree so I could see that happening to employees
On the last part of your video where you mention about some RUclipsrs spouting crap out of their mouths is absolutely true. I have noted two RUclipsrs one in particular who just did four months of self-taught as a developer and hasn't been a programming for not even a year. Who is talking about the importance of Math as a Software developer and why you won't be a good software developer if you don't improve your math skills? After hearing this I quickly unsubscribed and most of it was contrary to what real experienced developers would speak about from their years upon years of experience. As always excellent video Chris and keep on creating good content.
what if you have a degree but it's not a computer science degree?
Much better than no degree.
I like how real you are bro
Thanks for the video, but now I have a real dilemma. I was considering to start a 3-month "web development" bootcamp that teaches html, css, js, react, git and some more tools and methodologies like scrum. It sounds pretty good and I don't have to pay for it (for reasons). I'm also pusuing a CS degree in part time, actually more like on the weekends where I live. It's a cool state university that offers this curriculum for people who want for example a normal CS degree but on the side so to say, with most people who take it have full time jobs. It's pretty stressful but definitely made possible, Bachelors in 4.5 years and Masters another 3.5 years, so it's streched for obvious reasons. So should I just stick with the degree for now and not take the bootcamp that I could take on the week days because I don't have a job at the moment. I wanted the bootcamp to land me a job because I don't yet have the degree, but will it maybe drag down my degree at the end? Are bootcamps only for people who can't do it on their own? I'm not sure. I'm also not exactly a beginner. I used to have 2 Jobs as a software dev, each for 2 years before (both jobs were actually for education in combination with work, I don't know what they call it in the US, i'm from Europe) but I never learned web programming there, just some Java and an obscure Database language. I learned the hard way that I'm not very employable, even after 3.5 years doing this stuff and learning every day. But now I'm actually learning much faster because those 3.5 years did give me all the fundamentals to pick up new things quickly. I just need to know what to do next. Bootcamp and degree or just focus on the degree? Instead of the bootcamp I could take another 8 month course to get certified in Java or C#, .Net. But that would be something I already kind of done before. I have never done web programming before, so that's what really gets me excited right now.
But I do want to get the job at end of the day for the most part. I just don't want to work for a big bank or something (did that and it's not for me). You can get a lot more money working at a big bank in IT, but the work is dull, the people you work with are dull (mostly all the people are older in those huge financial companies I've noticed, 50 and above, and never changed the company), and it's not worth the money in my opinion. I think it really depends on the company for how much you enjoy your job, and for me working at something similar to bank of america in europe had a lot of salary, but I was miserable every day. I'm glad I don't have to go there anymore. Something more reasonable, but still a bigger company is the way to go in my opinion. Maybe degrees aren't as important there as in bank of america. Just needed to get this out to people who think the biggest comapny will be the best choice and therefore think they definitely need some kind of degree. A degree will never hurt though.
I've been calling myself a Software Developer. Should I be calling myself a Software Engineer?
I think so yes. The industry started moving titles like Programmer, Programmer Analyst, Full Stack Developer, DevOps Engineer to Software Engineer. It's an all around encompassing term which defines what we do (write software & configure technology). I create games, databases and more, so I don't want to be a web developer. I can write web apps but I can also do a lot more than that so I prefer the title Software Engineer. You can be a web developer but it's better to be a Software Engineer who focuses mostly on web development. Same thing but you're not stove piped into one role.
Software developer is about the same thing as engineer. You're not sticking to one field which is good so I see no problem with that role actually. I thought I read web developer. My bad.
@@realchrishawkes What do you mean by creating databases ? Is it like mySQL/SQLite/MongoDB ?
Btw Michael Widenius, the creator of mySQL, didn't finish his school, but I guess he has solid knowledge on database theory during his school at University and/or self-taught through reading standard textbooks by Korth-Silberschatz, C.J Date or Ramez Elmasri. I didn't finish reading the books, because my interest changed.
Yeah good advice, go to IT college at least doesn't matter the name. After
3-4 years of massive struggle and learning this is when somebody will start to pay you something. Loads of BS on youtube on this topic. Chris you are right on the money here!
You know if you want to call yourself an engineer perhaps you should get a degree in engineering..... That is what qualifies you to use that title. That is one of my pet peeves in this industry. Everyone calls themselves an engineer without having taken a single course to get their engineering degree. I think you should call yourself what you really are: a WEB DEVELOPER.
I actually have that title professionally but I understand your point.
I appreciate an honest take on this subject for once. I see so much horseshit "career advice" being peddled around on this subject.
Thank you for keeping it 💯
Thank you for watching. We will all get our shot if we work hard enough. We have to do whatever it takes and this is just one piece of advice I have for the industry right now. Half of the developers I've worked with professionally do not have computer science degrees but they are software engineers and do more than just web, myself included.
I always fancied myself as a “Business Solutions Provider” 😉
If you become a web developer you will do time with a digital marketing agency and working for them is like being in front of a firing squad.
Good advice 👍
thank you
On the subject of youtubers selling out: This is actually a comment for your "How Much Are 100k Subscribers Worth On RUclips?" video, Im commenting on an old video because I dont want to stir up a debate with your followers. I notice that you have a very long Linode ad in front of all your videos which any sane person would just scrub their time slider through. And lets be honest, the reason you do that is because every sane person has ad blockers installed on their browser so youtube ads really dont mean anything. Thats not a smart move for either you or Linode, youre going to turn off viewers by having such a long ad, and Linode is really not going to get views because everyone just moves past it. If you limit the time of that ad to 10 or 15 seconds people might actually watch it and not be bothered by it. If you really feel strongly about responsible content, then you should set an example by not running intrusive ads.
Hey, nice video and very good advices. I like that you unmask the ideal world that some youtubers tells. But your words and thinking can be demotivating in some cases like mine.
I would love to make a CS degree but I'm 31 years old and I really don't find it a good time-invest. I know it's harder this self-taught way, but it's so expensive for me otherwise.
I'm from South America and I'm going to live in Europe in a few months. Can't tell you why but I don't spect to be that hard as you explain it is in the USA, at least in the market you are experienced.
So may be you are right but a CS degree it's not for everyone (and I'm not talking about cognitive capacities).
Thank you!
Its not for me either. You can still succeed though. I started at 28. Do you want to work for a company or build your own?
@@realchrishawkes I want to end building my own company, that's for sure, just now I need a lot of experience in the industry both technical and entrepreneurial. I'm also starting to have freelance jobs and I have a journey ahead where I will be working remotely some time. So I'm deciding on the go.
Btw I come from network industry.
Economist Bryan Caplan says that education is 20% human capital and 80% signaling. Because companies don't want to take risks.
Makes sense.
Great vedeo seems like good advice
Dear hipsters, listen to Chris, what he's saying here is brutal truth.
facts
9-5 work as a web developer; 6- 11 build your own empire.
working 13 hours a day sounds ridiculous
Wow. After two years I can tell that he's correct
So, what I got was the cream will rise to the top and the rest will be discarded like make chicks at an egg farm. lol
The degree is not what gets you the job. Computer Science has become an over saturated major now. You need to do what all these people wont do. Actually go out into the real world and talk to people. If you can't create connections/relationships with people then your're just hoping for something to fall on your lap.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
everything is possible if your "why" is strong enough. stay focused
Very true
Many RUclipsrs spell shit out of their mouth? That's not great i think maybe you shouldn't say that, but anyway I like your advices :)
I probably shouldn't
I am not at all interested in developing local or native applications. That's why I call myself a web developer. College majors are defined by "web development" or "software development" or "computer science" etc. I think its just fine calling yourself a web developer.
it is. theres no point pretending you can make native or local apps by saying more than web developer
Haha that's funny I made a website and first thing you see if "web developer"
lol
I just want to add, DO NOT WRITE SELF TAUGHT on your LinkedIn or resume, I’m sure most of you know this but me been a dipshit didn’t, now I’m getting tons of phone calls from recruiters sell yourself high opportunities will come.
Unadulterated Truth
I hope I don't come off as too negative. I'm trying to help people. Many RUclipsrs say whatever is positive just like self-help books that concentrate their point on a few success stories and ignore the graveyard of failed developers and entrepreneurs who tried to follow the advice and failed. There are way more of them than the other way around. I think people should do whatever they want and whatever will make them happy. There is no one route or piece of advice that works for all. People need to just be as creative and ambitious as possible. At the very least they will be better off than they were before.
this is super biased. you keep stating extremes, but most software jobs are regular programming jobs that pay 55-90k / year and are enjoyable and let you have side projects, etc etc. its true you have to stay up to date, but there are companies that will pay to have training for employees to learn new frameworks and tech stacks... from personal experience, I haven't encountered most of the negatives you've listed about programming jobs. I feel like you're only stating the truth which exists in a small percentage of the industry.
I'm in the DC area.