lmfao reminds me of the time I made a turbo down pipe from a piece of pipe cut at (a very eye balled) 45 degree angle put together to make a 90 degree bend. I welded the pipe together... to a turbo flange ... to a modified piece of water-pipe to the wastegate flange (water pipe was just the wastegate passageway) I done all of this without anything other than a tape measure at my community college while the car sat at my house. I got home and it all mounted up flawlessly lol mostly luck I suppose.
As a toolmaker for 45 years I mostly used the cheap ones for common everyday use but for close tolerance the Mitutoyo have a better railways, which wear better. But calipers where for .002” tolerance or more. Micrometers were always for under .002”. It all depends on pressure, which calipers do not have unless they are special order, spring loaded inspection calipers. When I started out there were only veneer types, which required proper pressure. Also, temperature can effect the accuracy. SS expands and contracts with temperature.
`I prefer to use a micrometer because if I make something 4 or 5 thou oversize, I just keep twisting the barrel until it reaches the right size. It saves a lot of machining time.
The calipers are precise enough for broad tolerances jobs or to get closer to the needed size, but, for final control, the micrometer is best... ;) Beware not to dammage your micrometer by using it as a "C" clamp... lol
Thank you very much I just started a new job in a medical company. It isn't my first medical company it's actually my third. I've been Quality Control, QA Inspector. for all three companies. Yet in different departments from customers complaints to proof reading of manuals. I've been working in manufacturing since the late 80ies. Now I'm in the manufacturing department. Awesome! This video helped me plenty. In my measurements.
Thanks for the kind words, it's a pleassure to hear some feedback that says something in the video helped someone... I want to wish you plenty of success in your new job, and that it makes you happy to get up in the morning.... ;)
Back in the day on my engineering training I had a mitutoyo mechanical imp/metric vernier, some years later in the age of digital my nephew was an apprentice at a Kawasaki hydraulic motor factory, I gave him my old fashioned vernier, told him, any time you are stuck with a flat battery the old standby will serve you well. He is now in South Africa servicing those motors, first in the gold fields now offshore oil exploration. Nice to know that tool investment is still with him if he needs it.
+Russ Cattell I had a vernier caliper (Eclipse, it may have been until I lost it and replaced it with a Mitutoyo imp/metric instrument, probably the same as yours. In between times, I have owned 2 different makes of digital calipers although none of these were very expensive. They did not last long, the analogue Mitutoyo has outlived them both. I still use this, unlike other people I know who have bought expensive digital calipers which, while lasting longer than the digital calipers that I bought, still failed and were not worth fixing after just a few years. I'll stick with my old Mitutoyo, which at 40+ years old, is still a very useful tool.
@@wontputrealname I'd buy calipers every 2-3 years just because you know the jaws are consistent. You tend to get bumps over time and it is not flat especially if you measure metal parts.
Good to see the off brand is calibrated perfectly for what I need. Been using those for the last 10 years for all sorts of things like welding, reloading, cutting and random house measurements. That’s 100% with in tolerance of my uses at home. Looks like I’ll keep buying them haha
Wise thinking, to get the tool that will reliably do the job for a reasonnable cost. You get to know how you can trust the tool and use it accordingly.... 🌈👍
Thanks for the demo. Like others have said, I keep the Mitutoyo for when it really matters. I have also noticed that the biggest differences come from using the thumb knob to roll the calipers tight. The cheaper versions seem to lack the rigidity, so the error seems to come from a "bowing" of the caliper. Using the tips of the calipers worsens this effect. When I seat the workpiece deep and grasp the calipers closed around my workpiece, I get more consistent results, and my cheap calipers stay usable for longer. Thanks again! I'll be perusing through more of your posts to see what other interesting tidbits you have!
Hi Allen, Making accurate and constant measurements even with the best instruments requires some practice and a feel for it... A great way to practice is to compare your readings with a known part and practice until you get constant readings. Right about using the part closer to the body on a caliper... Thanks for viewing and I hope you find some other videos you'll enjoy in the future, Pierre
Fifteen to twenty years ago I bought some NSK digital calipers for NZD200 (USD145 at todays rate). I loved them and treasured them, and they are still as new. More recently, I have been doing less engineering, and more woodworking... I noticed the number of people on RUclips using throw-away cheap chinese calipers, so I bought some rather than use the NSK's. For this purpose THEY HAVE BEEN BRILLIANT! They far exceeded my expectations, with excellent repeatability. Your test with the gauge blocks is the true test of accuracy; for woodwork or checking bolt/screw sizes the cheapies are way more than accurate enough, at less than one tenth of the cost. A HUGE plus for the cheapies... if they time-out, they retain their current position when I turn them on again, and they turn on automatically when I move the slide. The NSK's turn always turn on at zero, regardless of the actual position. A really useful review, many thanks.
Hi John, For most applications thos cheaper tools are a good thing, it allows people on a budget to buy something tha will get the job done, even as a machinist I enjoy having a tool that won't make me cry if it gets hurted. If we agree that a caliperis a medium precise tool then we agree that most situations can be worked with a low budget... ;) Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
If it's important that a dimension that has to be held within +/- 0.005" , a caliper, no matter who made it is not the tool to use. You can use a caliper if you need to measure closer than that if you do what was done in the video... zero the caliper to gage blocks set to the required and you can get to +/- 0.0005" . It is important to note that even the Mititoyo doesn't read to "tenths" of a thousands of an inch. It can be anywhere in the range of +/-0.00025 of the indicated dimension. Like others have noted, I have both Mititoyo and Harbor Freight mystery calipers. I stoned the sharp edges on the HF's when I got them and it smoothed them up considerably. The batteries last about 3 years of daily use.. I do turn them off every time I use them. The HF calipers are the ones I use all the time.
Agree with you, like mentioned many times by lots of people the accuracy of even the best of caliper isn't up to precision under at most +/- 0.001", and, even there best to proof the measure with something better... Thanks for the input, Pierre
Aceroadholder I agree too. We always used a micrometer for anything that precise. Calipers were good for use at the parts counter when comparing parts, but not for machine work of any kind.
Here's a thing you might not know about the cheap calipers. They have a port on them that is beneath a plastic cover, that gives outputs from their quadrature encoders. With some very basic wiring and know how, a cheap caliper can be used as a linear encoder, and they are surprisingly good at that duty. My 3d printer project uses three HFT calipers for its X, Y, and Z stages, and it is very precise and repeatable. Food for thought (especially given the price of a real linear encoder - heheh)
This is a great add-on to the discussion, those new insights could help someone in future applications for a reasonable cost.... Let's be creative...!!! Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
the ones I had just spat out straight quadrature signals from the encoder pickups and it was merely a matter of figuring out how many CPI there were and counting em.
I agree with your final conclusion. I would like to notice that the cheaper one are much more battery hungry and a jaw movement speed can be an issue also.
Right about the batteries, sliding too fast will cause an error in many tools, for batteries, if you get SR-44 batteries instead of LR-44, they'll last longer but will cost you a little more...
Same here, my first precision tools about 45 years ago were Mitutoyo, still got those and they still perform like as they were when purchased, impressive... They didn't have digital in those years, not that I remember, though, they had the combimike, the little mechanical dials on the side... Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Good video! As a machinist now for 11-12 years I have a extensive collection of calipers and micrometers. About 2-3 years ago I bought a cheap pair (like in the video) to use around the house for projects and on vehicle repair/maintenance. They are reasonably accurate for most things around the house. But I stopped using them I was never happy with how they were built and the batteries would go dead very often so I ended up buying another 8" Mitutoyo harsh environment caliper for at home. Not everyone needs or can afford Mitutoyo calipers for at home but the fit & finish and hand feel of a quality tool is worth the investment.
My very first vernier was the 8" one in the video comparing the 11 units in some of my next video, still a great and precise tool, a little harder to read with age though... Good quality tools always pay off in the end ;) Thanks for your input and comment, Pierre
Gauge blocks are good if you have them but you can also compare the calipers directly by utilizing both outside and inside measuring arms. Half a thousandth is worth probably $40 to me. Also, a $15 dropped caliper often turns out to be more accurate than a dropped $150 caliper so you'll end up upside down then. You're micrometer is in perfect condition... all is good.
As any experienced machinist already knows, a caliper is also called an "Aproxo-meter" for any really close tolerances work there is a need for a tool that can be at least 10 times more precise. Another primary factor is the experience of the operator in being able to achieve accurate and repeatable measures... As far as I'm concerned, a dropped and/or an uncalibrated tool is excluded from my tool chest, it's just a waste of time and material potential in the future.... 🙂😉
hi Pierre, the tape holding the battery lid on the cheap calipers told me all i needed to know without having to turn in the tool. nice shootout video!
Hi, you're just right about the lesser quality tools, they cost less and give you a little less... lol But n many cases they do the job and if they get smashed its funny not painful... ;) Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
After 29 years in the machinist/tool room business I've had the big 3 ( Mitutoyo, Starrett, and Brown & Sharpe) for when accuracy matters, when accuracy doesn't matter don't waste your money or the risk of damage from dropping the expensive ones.
I like to use the better tools in cases where higher precision is required, but in crappy environment the cheaper decent ones do great, like mentionned, a caliper or a vernier isn't a vrey precise instrument in itself. Reliability is prime factor, though... Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Brings back memories of when we had factories and real jobs. wiggle it a little bit. We called calipers “very nears“ for engineers they're worth their weight in gold.
All depends on 2 things, first, how precise you need to be, second and even more important, how repeatable and precise can the handler be..........!!!!! It's a mater of experience and feel...
Using my cheap calipers for more precise work and my mitutoyos for the dirty stuff. My harbor freight calipers are more accurate than my mitutoyos. Anything precise gets measured with micrometers. Thumbs up!
Very good and quick comparison. I bought my first Mitutoyo 6 Inch x 0.1 Inch per revolution dial caliper in 1970 (and still have it) and a few years ago bought the Mitutoyo 6 Inch Absolute caliper and have been very pleased with their accuracy. Unfortunately the 6" dial caliper has an known error due to wear of 0.001" now between 0.540" and 0.580" but still good for everyday uses. Thanks for the review.
Got my fist Mitutoyo vernier am micrometer in the same era, still have them, they're in still in great shape though, but like agreed by most, the caliper is more a tool used to get closer to tight tolerances and then finish with something more precise or measure wide tolerances lots of times on length where the measures are often +/- 0.005" and plus. Thanks for comment, Pierre
I had similar results with an older (16yo +) pair from Harbor Freight (HF) vs Mitutoyo Absolute digital calipers... the HFones were either on, or off by 0.0005 or 0.001. as tested like you, with gage blocks, but I used non-whole number sizes. I did try the newer calipers that will also do fractions. but found they would not repeat 100%, while the Mitutoyo's do.
Hello John, the Mitutoyos will like you say, give more constant results, the accuracy and repeatability on the cheaper ones will depend if you got a good one or a less quality unit... As for measuring parts within the thousand of an inch, the resolution simply can't give an accurate number either the caliper is a quality unit or a cheap one, the result is unreliable in any case, the half thousand resolution doesn't mean much... Those tools have their place, it's to the machinist to determine how accurate the part has to be measured and act accordingly... Thanks for your input, Pierre
Top quality is always nice if affordable but for sure, the ''cheapo'' ones for most part do come out fairly well. I have had to rely on some of those and unless tolerances super tight they do for me. A mic in the end is the most reliable, along with telescope gauges. Now you gotta grow that fungus again!;;
Thing that messes me around is the amount of pressure applied. All my calipers measure different. Operator error I guess. I’ve tried a blind test and that had better results, I tend to push as hard as the number I’m looking for.
The problem with my Harbor Freight digital caliper is repeatability. It doesn't always re-zero when opened and closed or moved around. That gives me an uncertainty of when it's dead on or off by a few thousandths!
If you could make it do he problem at the store I'm pretty sure you could get another one if it looks not too abused, quality control is more a problem with the cheaper units than with brand names, you have to be a little more picky in order to save money though... ;)
theomnipresent1, just measure three times with a reset between each time until you conclude that you really only need to measure once or twice. The expensive calipers I use at work do the same thing...
Sorry about some mistakes, when it's posted to RUclips, to my knowledge it's impossible to change the content without redoing the whole process... And it happens despite the fact I watch it completely at least twice before uploading...
I use vernier calipers exclusively. I use them in my woodwork and mechanical hobbies.Yes, you have to learn how to read them, but it's not that hard to do (even at my advanced age). And you can tell instantly if they are in calibration or not. I bought a couple of Starrett dial indicators decades ago and they were fine, but if you don't keep them really clean the racks and gears can get sticky or even damaged. Digital indicators work fine but I never trust them completely. If you E-bay you can get fantastic deals on the best equipment. I can get just as good accuracy with vernier calipers as I can with micrometers (I have a number of them also).
Just like you, lots of my good tools are from local adds, by being on the lookout you can get real good deals on almost new tools..... 🙂🙂👍 Thanks for viewing and for your comment, Pierre
Hi, The chepaer one will surely be adequate if you're an occasionnal or a hobby user, those are great tools for a price if you can make sure that you get a decent unit to start with... ;) Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
It’s fine if you do your works by hand. Because our hands aren’t more accuracy than the $12 caliper. I think the Mitutoyo is suitable for CNC machine works
I use cheaper one and accurate enough for what I need, MTB for one thing all depends on the tolerance one needs like the video pointed out. Good video I was wondering how accurate the cheaper ones were that I had and now I know, they are fine for what I’m using them for I’m not working in a high tolerance so I can trust them
Most things I have to machine are +/- .005. Harbor Freight calipers are good enough most of the time. If I am doing high tolerance machining I always use a micrometer. You can make a caliper read whatever you want. Mics are more accurate in my experience. Good vid.
I have a 15 USD Chinese digital caliper. I work with it for more then 7 years. It serve me good. For my kind of work I do not need a more precise one. But I really like to see quality tools at work. Thank you for the video.
There isn't a huge difference in precision from between a cheap and an expensive caliper, differences are more on overall finishing, solidity in certain obvious cases, battery life, repeatability and how a company backs up the products... But, on the last point, even Harbor Freignt or Canadian Tire will exchange a faulty product... BTW, my everyday all purpose, including crappy jobs, is a MasterCraft from Canadian Tire, paid about $12.99 on sale, and like the Bunny, is lasting and lasting for about near ten years... Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Hi David, Mitutoyo tools are in my own opinion excellent tools, I still have my first micrometer and vernier that I purchased about 40 years ago and they're still in great shape after serving my needs for so long... Thanks for viewing and taking time to comment, Pierre
no problem pierre i enjoyed watching your video i am a retired electrical and refrigeration engineer living in the u.k but i still keep myself busy cant stop working but most of what i do now is auto airconditioning i gues it keeps me out of trouble ha ha i have subscribed to your youtube channel so i shall keep in touch all the best david
Hi Brian, you're realistic about the 0.001", there comes a time where the operator counts as much as the tool, mostly to get the last bits of accuracy out of even the better name brands, but I definitely vote on better units to get the better jobs done. Thanks, Pierre
I've got a 30 inches vernier scale and a 40" digital, both are Mitutoyo, those are $$$$$ but can not compare to cheap Chinese CRAP in that range... Money isn't everything but, sometimes...
The 2nd set of Mitutuyo calipers look like mine that I bought in college. I'm a design engineer and need calipers and a micrometer to measure/check parts and occasionally do production support.
My Mitutoyo died over the winter. I just got a $25 dollar pair off of Amazon for now. The biggest difference to me is the feeling. The Mitutoyo is so smooth and feels like a quality tool. The cheaper units (we have quite a few cheaper units at work as well) feel rough and just don't compare. You really do get what you pay for when it comes to calipers, but a cheap set will get the job done when extreme accuracy isn't important.
I got several Cheap Calipers and a few branded micrometers since i feel there isnt much point in me getting a branded caliper when i will be finishing my work measurements with a micrometer, so even with a very accurate caliper its still not as accurate as the micrometer
I watched this because I had bought a cheap one, and it was way off. After watching this, I took the cheap one apart. I did a little bit of filing and a little bit of bending and put it back together. Now it works perfectly!! Well, within 1-2/100's of a mm. I think that's plenty close for what I do.
Hi Tom, There are some good deals with "Some" of the cheaper brands, just like you did with a little tweeking and by being picky on whant you buy, but, we can expect the quality control or manufacturing to be always so good... Nice to see you got a pretty good tool in the end... ;) Thanks for sharing your expereince, Pierre
I use that tool most of the time for non critical measures or to approach the critical ones that will be terminated with more precision tool, for the price it's a hard to beat toll... ;) Thanks for your input, Pierre
About when you measured with the newest mitutoyo calipers. I have those too and I never have to reset a zero, when I got it I cleaned the jaws and set the origin. I never had to touch the zero button unless I was making relative measurements. The slight anomalies you saw were most likely caused by a tiny speck of dirt between the jaws when you zeroed the calipers. And just after zeroing the calipers were the jaws cleaned.
over 40 years ago, I started with a vernier scale caliper, but I also have some quite old digital ones, even one with carbide lined jaws, still in perfect condition....
For the type of stuff I do these cheap ones are great buys. I *do* keep a Mitutoyo caliper and a small micrometer on hand that I only rarely use. When I need real accuracy that micrometer has beed great. They were worth the money, despite the small amount of use they get, because when it needs to be accurate and it is not it costs a lot more time, money and materials when you screw it up. So I keep the Mitutoyo stuff very clean and locked away. My cheap measuring stuff just sits on my bench in their boxes. Or just dumped into a drawer. Good video!
I am a woodworker and I don't use calipers every day. I have a cheep digital one but I have to remove the battery when I put it away because it kills the battery if I don't. My favorite caliper is the dial type, easy to read accurate enough for me and always ready to measure.
Hi Terry, Cheaper tools aren't created equal, some will "Eat" the Battery in a very short period of time and some others like the cheap ones shown here will take at most 2 cheap 25 cents batteries a year at most, the accuracy readind on the exterior dimension is pretty good with all calipers, expensives or cheap alike, the main problem is when it comes to inside reading, not all are the same, this is due to the care of the fabrication on the jaws ont the tool. There is also a video about this I made a little after, here is the link: ruclips.net/video/VquhlPbIBzk/видео.html Thanks for viewing and taking time to comment, Pierrre
Hi, I mostly use my cheap caliper unless I really need the reliability and accuracy, then, most of the time the final measures are made with a micrometer... ;) Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Something I noticed on the cheap calipers is that they suck the battery dry just sitting in the box. I took to removing the battery when calipers are not in use. Mit calipers don't. (At least I have not caught them doing it.)
@@MikeJones-oo7wi Oh. Well I can't say that my bench is vibration-free. It's right next to a road and sometimes big trucks go by. I mean my building is right next to the road, and the bench is under a window that overlooks the road.
I had already purchased a set of the inexpensive pair and have been using them quite often. No issues so far other than the battery cover not being the best; I did the black tape fix. I had been wondering just how accurate they are. Thanks for the info!
Hi, funny thing about the black tape, that's the most point those cheap calipers got in common... Even now my second cheap caliper, the newer one got promoted to the black tape rank... lol Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Cheap or expencive, not see any big difference in accuracy in my experience. A caliper is not a accurate instrument anyway, better use it as 'guidance'. Naturally, for most of us doing this for as a hobby, it's usually more than accurate with a caliper. The biggest difference between cheap and expencive ones are battery life, in my opinion. Like a 1 day vs 5 years. those cheap calipers are EATING batteries bigtime!! at least the ones I'm familiar with.
Right about the aproximate accuracy of a caliper, and, it depends how close you need to get , some are better on battery life but sadly there is no certain way to find out before you try, the Dollar Store batteries or batches on eBay could help but you don't want to be left with 1000 minus 5 batteries to trash...
I would guess there are variations in battery life, both among cheap and expencive brands. I've got some $20 calipers on my lathe, accuracy is fine, but the battery life, oh my god..) If I'm unfortunate and forget to remove the batteries and let them be on from the morning until afternoon..nothing else to do run for new batteries next day) Bought a 'proffesional' caliper 20 years ago, Timex or something like that, $100 then. first battery change after 6-7 years, and it often happened I forget to turn it off for several days. Cost of batteries no bid deal, sure one can have a big storage of them, but just amazing such a big difference when it comes to battery life.
This is the first time someone tells me about a battery life that is soooo short as not even 24 hours... Normally for me a short life is more around a month or two as compared with the good brands they last years... That unit would be in the trash as far as I'm concerned, this is really a crappy tool... :(
Rimrock300 I don't use mine very frequently so I remove the battery in between uses. To make it easier I actually glued an angled piece of plastic from an old credit card so I can pluck it out easily when I'm done using it. Battery lasts a long time then.
Wow, to discharge those batteries that fast, the calipers must be taking around 50 to 100 milliamps. I wonder, have you tried genuine batteries? It might be possible that you've been scammed by the Chinese. Hell, some of those cheap power banks are nothing but a couple of old, used and often *worn out* battery cells from laptop batteries. I'm serious ... the cheapo chinese love reusing things. Then again, there ARE good Chinese products, at least in my knowledge when it comes to electrical test equipment. (Hint: "Rigol")
Well done comparison. When I have to be right I use the regular old micrometer and for the rest the cheap calipers. I always drop the calipers and if they get damaged I don't feel too bad. Keep on keeping on.
I bought one of the cheaper models a few years ago and found it worked great, was accurate and in general no complaints. I recently bought another 2 for general checking (appeared to be identical) for work and BOTH measured OK but drained the button cell battery in a couple of days, even when off. They are only usable if you remove the battery each time you are finished with it. We are binning them. Very disappointing.
Hi Lance, Wow, a couple of days is a real bad deal... Is there any way to get it back to the store and complain, this doesn't make a good tool to keep. Never got a problem of the sort, the ones I own will last for at least 3 to five months with cheap batteries purchased at the Dollar Store at 5 for $1.00... Good luck in getting those back where they come from and get a refund.. Thanks for your input and for comment, Pierre
Great video! Couldn't agree with you more. I think anybody buying a $12 caliper probably isn't doing something mission critical enough to cause a disaster if it's 1/1000th off. I love quality tools, and tools I use often are good quality, but I've always been okay with a "cheap" caliper - it isn't like I'm honing cylinder heads or anything. But if I was, I would probably step up to something nicer to prevent a headache. I wanted to mention I notice the cheap caliper I have (the same $12 one you have) drains the coin cell if you leave it in. Seems to trickle power even when turned off, so I don't store it with the battery installed. Conveniently the case has a little divot for the battery to rest.
To get the proper tool for the job includes being realistic about the quality of that tool, calipers and verniers aren't "Super High Precision Tools", they're great to get near precision measurements, then, more precise tools are required, a good machinist is aware of this first hand... BTW, those $12 calipesr are quite acceptables for most jobs in the shop, it saves the $$$$ ones some wear and tear.... 🌈👍
The better quality tools are always worth the extra money, if you can afford to spend it. Be also aware that some lower priced items are also a good option for lower budget operations. A good way to get good quality tools is to look for some well maintained used tools on your local adds or any source you trust...
I've bought a few cheapos, but everytime I need them, they're out of juice. So i bit the bullet and bought myself a new Mitutoyo when they were on sale. Those Mitus (and Tesas probably too) are in a league of their own, and I am happy to pay the price for them. They're well worth it.
@@ninjatheory7846 I bought the 500-181-30 for a little over €100. It's a 15cm (6") model without thumb wheel, without mm/inch button and without data output. (Just check with you local dealer for promotion sales ) The price range of the Tesa calipers also starts around € 100 . They're also worth checking out. At first i bought a Gedore for €75, thinking a German name brand would be ok too, but when I read "Made in China" I sent them back immediately.
Except for real fnacy work this Mastercraft take all the beating, I'm talking about the one with the electrical tape to keep the battery in the box... Where it gets different is when it comes to measure inside, if you get a little spare time there is a video where it makes the brand name winners...
I love Mitutoyo calipers! I did buy a cheap one because of cost. I have checked out other cheap ones. I can honestly say, the feel and true accuracy, Mitutoyo all the way! :)
My first tools like 40 years ago were Miyutoyo and it's still my favorite for many f their tools... A good used Mitutoyo on local adds is usually an happy find.... ;)
Until a year ago. i rocked that haircut but with a 6 inch beard 4 inch mustache and short hair on top. and by rocked it i mean i did that for 2 years straight.. how i still got laid is beyond me.
Mitutoyo's were the first precision measuring tools I got around 40+ years ago, and, still in great shape, those are kinda my favorites... ;) Thanks for comment, Pierre
look, a member of the metric system master race acting like a child. btw, i am not american and i only know metric system, but i dont act like a smartass about imperial
elintra because only two retarded countries in this world rely on imperial. imperial is not logic, unprecise and hey... look at the definitions of the imperial units. nowadays all of them are defined by a factor of a meteic unit... so in fact you have already the metric system, but you convert it to imperial for no logical reason.
Hi, just any micrometer is going to be more precise than a caliper even a good brand name tool, I've got another video where I compare gauge blocks and us micrometers if you're interested here are some links: ruclips.net/video/KB9gQmmMpVM/видео.html ruclips.net/video/IfAB1o0-Tjo/видео.html ruclips.net/video/VquhlPbIBzk/видео.html Hope you enjoy the discussion about different aspects of metrology applied to smaller shops or for hobby use... Pierre
It's either the cheap one or none. That's the choice for me. I'm a do it your selfer, not a pro. Much of what I do is woodworking, so my $15 one is awesome. Nice to see someone who isn't a tool snob.
Since there are lots of good tools in the budget price, you're doing the best for you, beside not being certified those tools are gonna last you a long time with quite accurate measurements, if you own or know someone with good references, like gauge blocks or similar you could verify the accuracy of your caliper. There is a more recent video I produced with a more accurate way of testing calipers, in case you're interested, here is the link: ruclips.net/video/hQqFAfPLid0/видео.html Thanks for viewing and for your comment, Pierre
These are great till the battery goes flat, when your out on a job. I prefer the traditional job. When will America get out of the stone age and go metric. Good interested test, thanks.
Canada is quite metric on most measures, schools have been teaching it for many years now. The young generation is using metric on almost all. All of our containers, speed, distance, temperature are metric. Construction are still using some imperial basic measures, as an example, plywood paneling is still 4 feet by 8 feet, but, the thickness is gone metric with let's say thickness of 19 millimeters, also lots of hardware and fasteners are still imperial, it's getting very much easier to get metric versions at all suppliers. On the other hand, the US are not very advanced in the usage of metric except for the car industry and a few other applications... Thanks for viewing and for comment.... 🙂👍
@@stephenlennox6491 I don't find either an issue. Where I work we use imperial and metric at the same times even, doesn't phase us. Rarely encounter conversion issues either. I like how easy metric units convert, but no unit of measure is perfect, even metric. And metric still is used improperly at times, such as kg for weight and mass. 10 doesn't divide cleanly into 3 or 4. Imperial can do tenths, same as metric. Metric still uses hr/sec, and degrees, same as imperial.... to me, arguing over units is like arguing over language that never stops evolving, kinda pointless really, when you think about it enough.
I just tested my Fowler on the 1-2-3 blocks I have thanks to this video. Although a little rough in measurement they seemed to be no more than half a thou over. Definitely good enough for hobbyist. The Canadian Tire one I had was a piece of crap - it had a problem on the quadrature sensor that caused it to jump some 5mm at random locations - it was the same jump every time. So I just got something a little better.
Hi Jeffrey, You really need to be choosy when you get the Canadian Tire calipers, some aren't that good depending of the batches... A caliper in a precise tool but far from a super precision tool, all depends on what your tolerances are, this is where judgement is to be used... ;) Thanks for your comment, Pierre
The cheaper ones are great to do jobs in harsh conditions or to get close from targeted measures, then, a better tools is required to get better results... ;)
The cheaper callipers are good for measuring drill bits as you have to twist them about in the jaw to get a proper reading. As you know that's how 'twist drills' cut (or mark here) so a HSS bit twisting against the jaws of a device for accurate measurements over time isn't a good thing. The cheap ones are, well they're cheap & accurate enough. Good for college kids training as +-0.25mm tolerance on their jobs anyway.
Ashley McGovern If you are measuring the diameter of drills, HSS or not, you should measure the shank of the drill above the cutting edges. That way you're not touching the jaws with the cutting edges of the drill and should be doing no damage.
wontputrealname It doesn't always work like that in a toolroom environment. There are drills that have been re sharpened over & over & done well or badly & it's the tip that cuts not the shank. Especially when you need a specific odd size to pre-drill when tapping etc. We were always taught the shank can be fatter / bigger dia than the flute/tip. Always measure the tip. When making gauges to strict tolerances for the quality control to use, you can understand. It's not like building a bird box in my shed then.
+Ashley McGovern The flutes are NEVER of a larger diameter than the shank. If the hole bored is bigger the drill hasn't been re-ground properly. If the drill is ground with the cutting edges only slightly of unequal length, the hole will be larger than the drill's rated size.
Most of the time the accuracy is more than good enough on those calipers, if more precision is needed, then, a micrometer or something in that precision range is required. Drill bits just about never make a final hole the rated diameter, it's always a little larger if the flutes are vrey close to even on each side, and, much bigger if the flutes are uneven... This is another area of machining where the precision isn't the first call... ;) Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
+Pierre's Garage This is why for a 1/2 inch hole to slide a bolt through, a 1/2 inch drill is fine as a new drill will drill a hole about 3 to 5 thou oversize, one which has been "done up" fairly well will be about 8 to 10 thou oversize. If, however, a 1/2 inch hole with a closer tolerance is needed, then a 31/64" drill should be used and a 1/2" reamer passed through the hole after as the reamer will give a hole
I disassembled my cheap caliper. I looked at the circuit board finger pattern that forms the capacitive sensor with a microscope. I could see that the layout was not drawn with knowledge of the pcb manufacturers print resolution, as there was a visible error in the spacing of the traces. If the traces are not positioned at integer number of final print resolution steps, the PCB traces will have some dither to their positions, limiting the resolution of the instrument. Doing it correctly costs nothing. Apparently Mitutoyo engineers bothered to work with their PCB maker to do this right. Very amazing to see the performance.
Most of the time, using the same materials will give two very different products, and, most of the time only a few operations better taken care will make all the difference, this is where we differentiate the better companies from the lousy ones... Good observation...!!!
It’s worth noting the Mitutoyo has 5 digits of resolution vs 4 with the Mastercraft. That could be important in something other than woodworking but it does emphasize the higher quality tool. I’ve used a Mitutoyo vernier caliper for over 40 years with confidence that I wouldn’t have in a cheap tool.
My first measuring tools about 45 years ago were Mitutoyo tools, no digital though. Those are always reliable and in perfect shape. The better tools are always an investment, sometimes when working in a harsh or crappy environment where the better tools could be rapidly abused or even destroyed, this is where the secondary or cheaper decent tools will not hurt the heart of someone that likes tools.... Guess this no secret that a caliper or a verner has limited precision, for me it's more considered as an "Aproximeter", all depends of the required tolerances for the actual job... Thanks for your comment, Pierre
They are called " very near " for a reason. As a toolmaker for indicators I use mostly Interapid. For inspection I use Compac/Interapid. Mitutoyo verniers are well made. The model you have is very sensitive to coolant/getting wet. They have a water resistant model which is excellent too. Can't beat quality. Fowler/Starret/Brown & Sharpe don't cut it for me. All my inspection mics are Mitutoyo and back in the day had Etalon. Good video but knowing the size of your build up clearly influenced how you used the measuring instruments. For a proper test you should have someone give you a Gauge build up stack that you do not know the size. Good video and cheers.
Good idea about the unknown stack, even with experience there could be a slight bias... Since there is no CNC and the only machines using coolant are a surface grinder and a band saw, I'm not worried about the coolant proof tools. If you wish there is a more recent video where I evaluate a digital caliper on the cheaper side using a method much closer to the ISO standard, here is the link: ruclips.net/video/hQqFAfPLid0/видео.html Thank you for viewing and taking time to share your experience, Pierre
@@pierresgarage2687 Sure as my coolant comment was for others and let's be honest we shouldn't be getting them wet but again from experience just 1 tiny spec will set them off.
That's not a very good review of calipers. Go over to the channel for AvE and see that review of calipers. He actually tears them apart and you understand the difference in the electronics and you'll know that your batteries will die very very fast in the cheap one.
This review is meant to be somthing different, if I want to know the how and why of the battery life then I watch AVE's video again... This is more directed to the use and difference in accuracy and quality controll of the tools...
Pierre; I think there is variability among the Harbor Freight calipers. I have a 6" HF that I have used for years and it is dead nuts accurate as compared to my Starrett calipers and when measured against my Starrett gauge blocks. And, it doesn't eat batteries (I go about 3 years between battery changes) and feels smooth as glass. For everyday machining, it is more than adequate and I don't worry if I ever drop it, etc. I even got it for free with an HF coupon. My lucky day ;) For higher precision work, I go with the Starrett calipers or switch to my Starrett mic's. Seeing as 90% of what I machine is in the +/- 2 thou range of needed accuracy, the mic's don't come out all that often. Thanks for showing this. Regards; Ron Kluwe
Hi Ron, since the cheaper units are a little on the irregular side, it's normal to get some that are pretty "dead on" with reference gauges, the problem comes with the fact that there is lots of variance within the batches... Lots of my work requires closer tolerances, so, a micrometer is always at hand... Thanks for your input, Pierre
+Peter Huskins Most people either don't know, or can't be bothered to learn, how to read a VERNIER caliper, yet they have the cheek to call digital calipers by the same name. Digital calipers are NOT vernier calipers, as I'm sure you know.
Well said! There's certainly a sense of satisfaction when you're young and learning the tools of the trade in learning how to read a vernier scale. Like the people who blindly follow the sat-nav in their cars as it guides them off a cliff, they will just look at a digital read-out and not think about the numbers they're seeing.
Hi Peter, As we get older those digital tools are a blessing in order to ease the reading, before those came a common item I use to read a regular vernier scale, but, now with age it's much more difficult to see and make out the scale.... ;) Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
No problem Pierre. I'm just a bit of an old duffer when it comes to modern tech. Im sure in another 100 yrs when Im old and my eyes don't work so well, I'll buy one! ; )
in the same manner, whats wrong with using paper and pencil instead of a calculator for doing all the calculations for your job? whats wrong with using regular mail service instead of e-mail? its just faster and more efficient. thats all. yes, Vernier calipers are cool to work with when you are at your Eng workshop class, but when you have deadlines at your work, you dont have the luxury of time
Thanks . I worried that cheap amazon ones would be inaccurate but within 1/1000” of the accuracy of expensive ones I think the cheap ones will be great for me. Accurate to 0.01mm is all I need
I worked in a hydraulic pump repair shop and we had all kinds of different brands of calipers and micrometers and all that stuff and my favorites were always the mitutoyos. However that was a while ago have no idea what their quality is like now.
That's not the point! The test was of the accuracy of various devices. The tests were using calibrated blocks that were British units; therefore it seems reasonable that one would test using the units that match the reference material.
If you don't have gauge blocks, to assess the error of your calipers - don't fret. You can easily make a graph comparing measures taken with micrometers to measures taken of the same place on the same piece with the calipers. Then you can extrapolate your corrections to the readouts as indicated by the graph.
You're right about the fact there are many ways to control some measuring tool, as you probably know the resolution on calipers is kinda poor, mostly when you try to determine something like a part that measure in tenths of inches, there is now real sure way to determine if you're in the upper or lower tenths... As mentioned calipers are more for loose tolerances and approximation, this is more the intended message of this video... Thanks, Pierre
I might have taken all those measurements with the gage blocks always on that paper surface. Imagining that heat from your hands might have some (small) effect upon the block... expansion.. plus repeated use will likely contaminate the surfaces. Perhaps the 1" block is encased in plastic for the heat transfer reason?
Calipers won't be able to discriminate the difference at all, it's not a rated for precision under one thousand of an inch, the blocks expansion is way under that with a few degrees difference. You may worry about this if you need precision in micron... Not really achievable unless you operate a highly precise machining facility, then, you must have a separate controlled atmosphere metrology department... This gets to be really $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I use verniers for rough measurement only. If I need very close tolerances it's micrometers for me. As for cheap versus top of the line, well on occasion things get dropped or damaged. $12.00 versus $120.00 seems lot better to me.
You're quite right about the precision of even a lower priced mocrometer, it's easyly 10 times more accurate than even the best quality vernier or caliper. Cheers, Pierre
Also in the 70's, my first vernier and first micrometer were Mitutoyo, still got those and they are in great shape, remember that they were quite costly, as for quality those didn't have much to envy to other more namely brands, they were considered cheap only cause at that time Japan made items weren't very valued in people's eyes. Thanks for your comment...
Mitutoyo and other Japanese brands suffered from the 60s stigma of "made in Japan" cheap junk but we just didn't realize at the time that the Japanese were starting to crank out high quality stuff.
There is a reason to pay a "Little" more for a tool... lol I've been using mututoyos since ever 40 years and they're still doing great. Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Great vid! I found that most frustrating thing cheap digital calipers is the battery life! Where as Quality caliper manufacturers batteries last years. I a set of Tesa calipers that I have owned for 8 years are still on the original battery
With most digital calipers I expect at least one year of battery life, a little moe on brand names, we just need to be aware that there the SR-44 and LR-44 types, the SR are more expansives and will outlast the LR series, since most of us buy the LR batteries we get about one year, the SR will at least double or triple that time, at a cost, though... * 8 years is a LONG time....!!!! Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Depending on the application it's being used on, cheap Chinese made calipers are just fine. I bought a plastic cheap one for $7 specifically to measure bullet casing lengths for my reloading and it's served me well.
Hi, and with the plastic one you can work in a magnetic anvironment and get away with it... All depends on what is the required precision is... Mine has been doing great for many years already...... ;) Thnaks for viewing and for your input, Pierre
Good Video i have the same Crappy tire one tried to sell the mitutoyo dial gauge at garage sale not even $20 bucks folks would not buy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chinese Quality improved alot I have Snap on Tools , waisted my money Canadian Tire Pro series looks the Same Craftsman just sold to Stanley Tools
I have a mitutoyo, and a couple $15 Amazon Chinesium grade calipers. They all give exactly 1.0000, 2.0000 etc on guage blocks, but for some reason I still trust the mitutoyo more. The biggest thing, is that the mitutoyo feels nicer, and I can leave it on 24/7 for years and the battery is fine. The cheap ones last a few months even off, since they really are still measuring in order to auto turn on when moved.
Good brand name tools are 99% better and reliable than the cheaper ones, but, in certain places or circumstances the cheaper ones have some place as long as we know where their limit is... ;) Cheaper batteries can be purchased in places like Dolar Stores for like 5 for a dollar, this is what I do for the cheap tools. Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Guess I'm more use in the kitchen to the "Shake and Bake", that doesn't apply to caliper... lol Got to reorganize my routine... Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Two questions/comments: 1. It looks like there would be in induced error just from placing the stock in the calibers by hand. If the stock/gage block is not exactly square with the jaws with one end high or low, the calipers reading would be affected. This corresponds with use on a lathe where the calipers is not applied exactly perpendicular to the work. The thin calipers jaws do not necessarily square the tool with the work. 2. The test would benefit from a duplication check. Do the calipers read the same in multiple readings, perhaps returning to the stock after measuring something else. Good video. Thank you.
My $10 PITTSBURGH from H.F. started blinking the display on & off. I cleaned the battery contacts... nope, didn't help. I just finished cleaning the ruler face and PCB face with rubbing alcohol and now it is fixed. Good video thanks.
Sometimes it doesn't take much to interfere with the reader unit of the tool, your $10 tool will surely live as long as an costly tool, it will do what you require. Thanks for taking a moment to share your experience... Pierre
No competition Mitutoyo all day long. Cheap models do not last. You just need to hold the 2 models in your hand to no which is Best. Quality always shines through. Nice job Mitutoyo class act. My 12inch version cost a decent amount 2nd one in 35 years. So about the same cost as buying 35 plus cheap ones. But still looking like new and just as accurate.
I bought a cheap harbor freight 8” digital caliper 29.99 many years ago for scribing lines and rough work and it is holding up real nice, bought another one about a year ago and it is not as good as the older one ( it eats batteries and always is jumping .200)
I always measure with calipers, mark with chalk, and then cut with a hatchet and things always come out fine.
Hi, There are days like that where I sharpen the hatchet too.... lol
Thanks for comment, Pierre
ctbram0627 n
lmfao reminds me of the time I made a turbo down pipe from a piece of pipe cut at (a very eye balled) 45 degree angle put together to make a 90 degree bend. I welded the pipe together... to a turbo flange ... to a modified piece of water-pipe to the wastegate flange (water pipe was just the wastegate passageway) I done all of this without anything other than a tape measure at my community college while the car sat at my house. I got home and it all mounted up flawlessly lol mostly luck I suppose.
Lol🤣😂
I hope you measure 7 times and cut 1ce otherwise no matter how good the hatchet, the end result might suffer.
As a toolmaker for 45 years I mostly used the cheap ones for common everyday use but for close tolerance the Mitutoyo have a better railways, which wear better. But calipers where for .002” tolerance or more. Micrometers were always for under .002”. It all depends on pressure, which calipers do not have unless they are special order, spring loaded inspection calipers. When I started out there were only veneer types, which required proper pressure. Also, temperature can effect the accuracy. SS expands and contracts with temperature.
That's what I always thought: If you truly want precision you use micrometers. Callipers have an extra digit that I figure you just ignore generally.
"veneer" types?
Surely you meant "vernier"?
`I prefer to use a micrometer because if I make something 4 or 5 thou oversize, I just keep twisting the barrel until it reaches the right size. It saves a lot of machining time.
The calipers are precise enough for broad tolerances jobs or to get closer to the needed size, but, for final control, the micrometer is best... ;)
Beware not to dammage your micrometer by using it as a "C" clamp... lol
old guy i worked with actually did that
@@69mrnikolai at least he squeezed it to the correct extent lol
@@pierresgarage2687 rofl, so bad how to use that, man 😂
@@umarmuchtar6080 That's true, sometimes I do get blisters on my fingers from doing that, so I use a g clamp to turn the barrel to the correct size.
Thank you very much I just started a new job in a medical company. It isn't my first medical company it's actually my third. I've been Quality Control, QA Inspector. for all three companies. Yet in different departments from customers complaints to proof reading of manuals. I've been working in manufacturing since the late 80ies. Now I'm in the manufacturing department.
Awesome! This video helped me plenty. In my measurements.
Thanks for the kind words, it's a pleassure to hear some feedback that says something in the video helped someone... I want to wish you plenty of success in your new job, and that it makes you happy to get up in the morning.... ;)
Back in the day on my engineering training I had a mitutoyo mechanical imp/metric vernier, some years later in the age of digital my nephew was an apprentice at a Kawasaki hydraulic motor factory, I gave him my old fashioned vernier, told him, any time you are stuck with a flat battery the old standby will serve you well. He is now in South Africa servicing those motors, first in the gold fields now offshore oil exploration. Nice to know that tool investment is still with him if he needs it.
+Russ Cattell
I had a vernier caliper (Eclipse, it may have been until I lost it and replaced it with a Mitutoyo imp/metric instrument, probably the same as yours.
In between times, I have owned 2 different makes of digital calipers although none of these were very expensive. They did not last long, the analogue Mitutoyo has outlived them both.
I still use this, unlike other people I know who have bought expensive digital calipers which, while lasting longer than the digital calipers that I bought, still failed and were not worth fixing after just a few years.
I'll stick with my old Mitutoyo, which at 40+ years old, is still a very useful tool.
@@wontputrealname I'd buy calipers every 2-3 years just because you know the jaws are consistent. You tend to get bumps over time and it is not flat especially if you measure metal parts.
Good to see the off brand is calibrated perfectly for what I need. Been using those for the last 10 years for all sorts of things like welding, reloading, cutting and random house measurements. That’s 100% with in tolerance of my uses at home. Looks like I’ll keep buying them haha
Wise thinking, to get the tool that will reliably do the job for a reasonnable cost. You get to know how you can trust the tool and use it accordingly.... 🌈👍
Thanks for the demo. Like others have said, I keep the Mitutoyo for when it really matters. I have also noticed that the biggest differences come from using the thumb knob to roll the calipers tight. The cheaper versions seem to lack the rigidity, so the error seems to come from a "bowing" of the caliper. Using the tips of the calipers worsens this effect. When I seat the workpiece deep and grasp the calipers closed around my workpiece, I get more consistent results, and my cheap calipers stay usable for longer.
Thanks again! I'll be perusing through more of your posts to see what other interesting tidbits you have!
Hi Allen,
Making accurate and constant measurements even with the best instruments requires some practice and a feel for it...
A great way to practice is to compare your readings with a known part and practice until you get constant readings.
Right about using the part closer to the body on a caliper...
Thanks for viewing and I hope you find some other videos you'll enjoy in the future, Pierre
Fifteen to twenty years ago I bought some NSK digital calipers for NZD200 (USD145 at todays rate). I loved them and treasured them, and they are still as new. More recently, I have been doing less engineering, and more woodworking... I noticed the number of people on RUclips using throw-away cheap chinese calipers, so I bought some rather than use the NSK's. For this purpose THEY HAVE BEEN BRILLIANT! They far exceeded my expectations, with excellent repeatability. Your test with the gauge blocks is the true test of accuracy; for woodwork or checking bolt/screw sizes the cheapies are way more than accurate enough, at less than one tenth of the cost. A HUGE plus for the cheapies... if they time-out, they retain their current position when I turn them on again, and they turn on automatically when I move the slide. The NSK's turn always turn on at zero, regardless of the actual position. A really useful review, many thanks.
Hi John,
For most applications thos cheaper tools are a good thing, it allows people on a budget to buy something tha will get the job done, even as a machinist I enjoy having a tool that won't make me cry if it gets hurted. If we agree that a caliperis a medium precise tool then we agree that most situations can be worked with a low budget... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
If it's important that a dimension that has to be held within +/- 0.005" , a caliper, no matter who made it is not the tool to use. You can use a caliper if you need to measure closer than that if you do what was done in the video... zero the caliper to gage blocks set to the required and you can get to +/- 0.0005" .
It is important to note that even the Mititoyo doesn't read to "tenths" of a thousands of an inch. It can be anywhere in the range of +/-0.00025 of the indicated dimension.
Like others have noted, I have both Mititoyo and Harbor Freight mystery calipers. I stoned the sharp edges on the HF's when I got them and it smoothed them up considerably. The batteries last about 3 years of daily use.. I do turn them off every time I use them. The HF calipers are the ones I use all the time.
Agree with you, like mentioned many times by lots of people the accuracy of even the best of caliper isn't up to precision under at most +/- 0.001", and, even there best to proof the measure with something better...
Thanks for the input, Pierre
Aceroadholder I agree too. We always used a micrometer for anything that precise. Calipers were good for use at the parts counter when comparing parts, but not for machine work of any kind.
How to use a micrometer
Here's a thing you might not know about the cheap calipers. They have a port on them that is beneath a plastic cover, that gives outputs from their quadrature encoders. With some very basic wiring and know how, a cheap caliper can be used as a linear encoder, and they are surprisingly good at that duty. My 3d printer project uses three HFT calipers for its X, Y, and Z stages, and it is very precise and repeatable. Food for thought (especially given the price of a real linear encoder - heheh)
This is a great add-on to the discussion, those new insights could help someone in future applications for a reasonable cost....
Let's be creative...!!!
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Kinkhorse Yes if they are the same as the linear scales, the communication will be per RS-422 aka TIA/EIA-422.
@Kinkhorse: like a JTAG interface? I like it. great hack.
the ones I had just spat out straight quadrature signals from the encoder pickups and it was merely a matter of figuring out how many CPI there were and counting em.
K. Meinzer: sweet. Thanks for the info
I agree with your final conclusion. I would like to notice that the cheaper one are much more battery hungry and a jaw movement speed can be an issue also.
Right about the batteries, sliding too fast will cause an error in many tools, for batteries, if you get SR-44 batteries instead of LR-44, they'll last longer but will cost you a little more...
Thanks for that Pierre, an honest appraisal of your callipers accuracy. Boy am I impressed with the Mitutoyo's
Same here, my first precision tools about 45 years ago were Mitutoyo, still got those and they still perform like as they were when purchased, impressive... They didn't have digital in those years, not that I remember, though, they had the combimike, the little mechanical dials on the side...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Good video! As a machinist now for 11-12 years I have a extensive collection of calipers and micrometers. About 2-3 years ago I bought a cheap pair (like in the video) to use around the house for projects and on vehicle repair/maintenance. They are reasonably accurate for most things around the house. But I stopped using them I was never happy with how they were built and the batteries would go dead very often so I ended up buying another 8" Mitutoyo harsh environment caliper for at home. Not everyone needs or can afford Mitutoyo calipers for at home but the fit & finish and hand feel of a quality tool is worth the investment.
My very first vernier was the 8" one in the video comparing the 11 units in some of my next video, still a great and precise tool, a little harder to read with age though...
Good quality tools always pay off in the end ;)
Thanks for your input and comment, Pierre
So, after 16 mins we've learned that higher priced, better quality tools work better than budget ones. Brilliant work, sir.
How rude.
Gauge blocks are good if you have them but you can also compare the calipers directly by utilizing both outside and inside measuring arms. Half a thousandth is worth probably $40 to me. Also, a $15 dropped caliper often turns out to be more accurate than a dropped $150 caliper so you'll end up upside down then. You're micrometer is in perfect condition... all is good.
As any experienced machinist already knows, a caliper is also called an "Aproxo-meter" for any really close tolerances work there is a need for a tool that can be at least 10 times more precise. Another primary factor is the experience of the operator in being able to achieve accurate and repeatable measures...
As far as I'm concerned, a dropped and/or an uncalibrated tool is excluded from my tool chest, it's just a waste of time and material potential in the future.... 🙂😉
hi Pierre, the tape holding the battery lid on the cheap calipers told me all i needed to know without having to turn in the tool. nice shootout video!
Hi, you're just right about the lesser quality tools, they cost less and give you a little less... lol
But n many cases they do the job and if they get smashed its funny not painful... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
"Good, not great" - just like like my caliper budget xD
After 29 years in the machinist/tool room business I've had the big 3 ( Mitutoyo, Starrett, and Brown & Sharpe) for when accuracy matters, when accuracy doesn't matter don't waste your money or the risk of damage from dropping the expensive ones.
I like to use the better tools in cases where higher precision is required, but in crappy environment the cheaper decent ones do great, like mentionned, a caliper or a vernier isn't a vrey precise instrument in itself. Reliability is prime factor, though...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Brings back memories of when we had factories and real jobs. wiggle it a little bit. We called calipers “very nears“ for engineers they're worth their weight in gold.
All depends on 2 things, first, how precise you need to be, second and even more important, how repeatable and precise can the handler be..........!!!!!
It's a mater of experience and feel...
Excellent comparison. Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot, you're welcome... 🙂🙂
Using my cheap calipers for more precise work and my mitutoyos for the dirty stuff. My harbor freight calipers are more accurate than my mitutoyos. Anything precise gets measured with micrometers. Thumbs up!
Very good and quick comparison. I bought my first Mitutoyo 6 Inch x 0.1 Inch per revolution dial caliper in 1970 (and still have it) and a few years ago bought the Mitutoyo 6 Inch Absolute caliper and have been very pleased with their accuracy. Unfortunately the 6" dial caliper has an known error due to wear of 0.001" now between 0.540" and 0.580" but still good for everyday uses. Thanks for the review.
Got my fist Mitutoyo vernier am micrometer in the same era, still have them, they're in still in great shape though, but like agreed by most, the caliper is more a tool used to get closer to tight tolerances and then finish with something more precise or measure wide tolerances lots of times on length where the measures are often +/- 0.005" and plus.
Thanks for comment, Pierre
1-2 ten thousanth of an inch on a vernier caliper, I'd live with that lol
don't forget he applied pressure when zeroing which might actually correct the measurements..
I had similar results with an older (16yo +) pair from Harbor Freight (HF) vs Mitutoyo Absolute digital calipers... the HFones were either on, or off by 0.0005 or 0.001. as tested like you, with gage blocks, but I used non-whole number sizes.
I did try the newer calipers that will also do fractions. but found they would not repeat 100%, while the Mitutoyo's do.
Hello John, the Mitutoyos will like you say, give more constant results, the accuracy and repeatability on the cheaper ones will depend if you got a good one or a less quality unit...
As for measuring parts within the thousand of an inch, the resolution simply can't give an accurate number either the caliper is a quality unit or a cheap one, the result is unreliable in any case, the half thousand resolution doesn't mean much...
Those tools have their place, it's to the machinist to determine how accurate the part has to be measured and act accordingly...
Thanks for your input, Pierre
Top quality is always nice if affordable but for sure, the ''cheapo'' ones for most part do come out fairly well. I have had to rely on some of those and unless tolerances super tight they do for me. A mic in the end is the most reliable, along with telescope gauges.
Now you gotta grow that fungus again!;;
Right about the cheapos doing most of the hard work... !!! ;)
It will grow don't worry, being lazy helps keep it alive... lol
Thing that messes me around is the amount of pressure applied. All my calipers measure different. Operator error I guess. I’ve tried a blind test and that had better results, I tend to push as hard as the number I’m looking for.
The problem with my Harbor Freight digital caliper is repeatability. It doesn't always re-zero when opened and closed or moved around. That gives me an uncertainty of when it's dead on or off by a few thousandths!
If you could make it do he problem at the store I'm pretty sure you could get another one if it looks not too abused, quality control is more a problem with the cheaper units than with brand names, you have to be a little more picky in order to save money though... ;)
theomnipresent1, just measure three times with a reset between each time until you conclude that you really only need to measure once or twice. The expensive calipers I use at work do the same thing...
in aircraft engineering i had the tesa vernier caliper, and moore a wright micrometer. bought in the 1980's.
and still as good today.
I made my own calipers out of wood... They are accurate to the nearest quarter inch...live long and prosper ✌️
Hi everything is relative, depends what's to be done and how precise it needs to be... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
+Pierre's Garage no-you are mistaken... The posters of this video use THOUSANDTHS of an inch... Please watch the video more closely in future
Sorry about some mistakes, when it's posted to RUclips, to my knowledge it's impossible to change the content without redoing the whole process... And it happens despite the fact I watch it completely at least twice before uploading...
Pierre's Garage Jeremy western is a horrible troll who posts racism and adolescent nonsense, please don't feed him.
Use slide clamps, and mark the increments on the pipe with a sharpie.
I use vernier calipers exclusively. I use them in my woodwork and mechanical hobbies.Yes, you have to learn how to read them, but it's not that hard to do (even at my advanced age). And you can tell instantly if they are in calibration or not. I bought a couple of Starrett dial indicators decades ago and they were fine, but if you don't keep them really clean the racks and gears can get sticky or even damaged. Digital indicators work fine but I never trust them completely. If you E-bay you can get fantastic deals on the best equipment. I can get just as good accuracy with vernier calipers as I can with micrometers (I have a number of them also).
Just like you, lots of my good tools are from local adds, by being on the lookout you can get real good deals on almost new tools..... 🙂🙂👍
Thanks for viewing and for your comment, Pierre
Thanks I'm buying the $12 ones
Hi,
The chepaer one will surely be adequate if you're an occasionnal or a hobby user, those are great tools for a price if you can make sure that you get a decent unit to start with... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
with imperial system there is no differents.. Even with a wood meter all measurement are ok!
It’s fine if you do your works by hand. Because our hands aren’t more accuracy than the $12 caliper. I think the Mitutoyo is suitable for CNC machine works
I use cheaper one and accurate enough for what I need, MTB for one thing all depends on the tolerance one needs like the video pointed out.
Good video I was wondering how accurate the cheaper ones were that I had and now I know, they are fine for what I’m using them for I’m not working in a high tolerance so I can trust them
@glyn hodges yes, because using 1 kg or 1/2 liter is too much brains
Most things I have to machine are +/- .005. Harbor Freight calipers are good enough most of the time. If I am doing high tolerance machining I always use a micrometer. You can make a caliper read whatever you want. Mics are more accurate in my experience. Good vid.
Hi Scott,
This is a good way to see thngs, and right about micrometers being much more accurate... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
I think my cheap one even says +/- 0.04 mm. Definitely more than good enough for home use.
You don't need to pay a fortune in order to get a decent caliper, even more so for home use...
I have a 15 USD Chinese digital caliper. I work with it for more then 7 years. It serve me good. For my kind of work I do not need a more precise one. But I really like to see quality tools at work. Thank you for the video.
There isn't a huge difference in precision from between a cheap and an expensive caliper, differences are more on overall finishing, solidity in certain obvious cases, battery life, repeatability and how a company backs up the products...
But, on the last point, even Harbor Freignt or Canadian Tire will exchange a faulty product...
BTW, my everyday all purpose, including crappy jobs, is a MasterCraft from Canadian Tire, paid about $12.99 on sale, and like the Bunny, is lasting and lasting for about near ten years...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
One thing to watch out for, even Mitutoyo is now made in Brazil or somewhere. You have to buy an old stock one to get made in Japan.
Quality control isn't as rigorous as it used to be, unfortunately....!!!! There are still goo tools available but you need to be picky.
great video pierre i have been using a mitutoyo caliper for 20 years a great product
Hi David,
Mitutoyo tools are in my own opinion excellent tools, I still have my first micrometer and vernier that I purchased about 40 years ago and they're still in great shape after serving my needs for so long...
Thanks for viewing and taking time to comment, Pierre
no problem pierre i enjoyed watching your video i am a retired electrical and refrigeration engineer living in the u.k but i still keep myself busy cant stop working but most of what i do now is auto airconditioning i gues it keeps me out of trouble ha ha i have subscribed to your youtube channel so i shall keep in touch all the best david
The only digital calipers I have had were in the $30 range and I have found them to be within .001" I would trust them no closer than that.
Hi Brian, you're realistic about the 0.001", there comes a time where the operator counts as much as the tool, mostly to get the last bits of accuracy out of even the better name brands, but I definitely vote on better units to get the better jobs done.
Thanks, Pierre
Pierre's Garage
Like most things you tend to get what you pay for to at least some extent.
I've got a 30 inches vernier scale and a 40" digital, both are Mitutoyo, those are $$$$$ but can not compare to cheap Chinese CRAP in that range... Money isn't everything but, sometimes...
The 2nd set of Mitutuyo calipers look like mine that I bought in college. I'm a design engineer and need calipers and a micrometer to measure/check parts and occasionally do production support.
My very first precision tools over 40 years ago were Mitutoyo's, those are still in great condition, with minimal care they'll last for ever....!!!
That is the only brand I buy. Never settle for less.
I went to harbor freight and spent 20 minutes and 13 dollars US, to find a well made calipers with smooth action. The time and money was well spent.
My Mitutoyo died over the winter. I just got a $25 dollar pair off of Amazon for now. The biggest difference to me is the feeling. The Mitutoyo is so smooth and feels like a quality tool. The cheaper units (we have quite a few cheaper units at work as well) feel rough and just don't compare. You really do get what you pay for when it comes to calipers, but a cheap set will get the job done when extreme accuracy isn't important.
Just like you mention, a Mitutoyo is a MITUTOYO, but, it's less painfull to scrap a cheap tool... sigh....
Cheers, Pierre
I got several Cheap Calipers and a few branded micrometers since i feel there isnt much point in me getting a branded caliper when i will be finishing my work measurements with a micrometer, so even with a very accurate caliper its still not as accurate as the micrometer
I quite agree with your findings...
Thanks for viewing and for your comment....
I watched this because I had bought a cheap one, and it was way off. After watching this, I took the cheap one apart. I did a little bit of filing and a little bit of bending and put it back together. Now it works perfectly!! Well, within 1-2/100's of a mm. I think that's plenty close for what I do.
Hi Tom,
There are some good deals with "Some" of the cheaper brands, just like you did with a little tweeking and by being picky on whant you buy, but, we can expect the quality control or manufacturing to be always so good...
Nice to see you got a pretty good tool in the end... ;)
Thanks for sharing your expereince, Pierre
Thanks man. I own one of the CDN TIre ones. So it confirms that for the "back yard mechanic" it's good enough!
I use that tool most of the time for non critical measures or to approach the critical ones that will be terminated with more precision tool, for the price it's a hard to beat toll... ;)
Thanks for your input, Pierre
Like you say... bang for the buck can't go wrong.
About when you measured with the newest mitutoyo calipers.
I have those too and I never have to reset a zero, when I got it I cleaned the jaws and set the origin. I never had to touch the zero button unless I was making relative measurements.
The slight anomalies you saw were most likely caused by a tiny speck of dirt between the jaws when you zeroed the calipers. And just after zeroing the calipers were the jaws cleaned.
You're right about keeping the jaws clean and checking regularly, it doesn't take much to offset the reading...
Thanks for the comment, Pierre
For that degree of critical measurement(as he said), it's best to use the micrometers....
In deed... ;)
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
I have the oldest Mitutoyo digital caliper in my tool cart, at my work, after al those years it run as it was new.
over 40 years ago, I started with a vernier scale caliper, but I also have some quite old digital ones, even one with carbide lined jaws, still in perfect condition....
For the type of stuff I do these cheap ones are great buys. I *do* keep a Mitutoyo caliper and a small micrometer on hand that I only rarely use. When I need real accuracy that micrometer has beed great. They were worth the money, despite the small amount of use they get, because when it needs to be accurate and it is not it costs a lot more time, money and materials when you screw it up. So I keep the Mitutoyo stuff very clean and locked away. My cheap measuring stuff just sits on my bench in their boxes. Or just dumped into a drawer. Good video!
This is a clever use of cheaper stuff, nothing stops us to revert to the better tool when needed..... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
I am a woodworker and I don't use calipers every day. I have a cheep digital one but I have to remove the battery when I put it away because it kills the battery if I don't. My favorite caliper is the dial type, easy to read accurate enough for me and always ready to measure.
Hi Terry,
Cheaper tools aren't created equal, some will "Eat" the Battery in a very short period of time and some others like the cheap ones shown here will take at most 2 cheap 25 cents batteries a year at most, the accuracy readind on the exterior dimension is pretty good with all calipers, expensives or cheap alike, the main problem is when it comes to inside reading, not all are the same, this is due to the care of the fabrication on the jaws ont the tool.
There is also a video about this I made a little after, here is the link:
ruclips.net/video/VquhlPbIBzk/видео.html
Thanks for viewing and taking time to comment, Pierrre
So unless you're building rocket parts for nasa or formula one engine parts it's ok to use the cheaper one. :)
Great comparison video, thank you.
Hi, I mostly use my cheap caliper unless I really need the reliability and accuracy, then, most of the time the final measures are made with a micrometer... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
I would disagree, these days a one thou tolerance is considered huge, were I work anyways... And we dont make rocket parts or formula engines.
Cold forming here ..... we use mitotoyo calipers and mics .... mics get the diameters of the body the caliper gets the washer of the bolt
Something I noticed on the cheap calipers is that they suck the battery dry just sitting in the box. I took to removing the battery when calipers are not in use. Mit calipers don't. (At least I have not caught them doing it.)
Me too !.
Lock the jaws shut when not in use , movement turns them on.
@@MikeJones-oo7wi Do you think the jaws are moving as the calipers lie in the box on the bench?
@@Odonnol vibration can set them off.
@@MikeJones-oo7wi Oh. Well I can't say that my bench is vibration-free. It's right next to a road and sometimes big trucks go by. I mean my building is right next to the road, and the bench is under a window that overlooks the road.
A very well done review, thank you!. I lerned a couple o things.
Glad you got something from the video and thanks for comment, Pierre
I had already purchased a set of the inexpensive pair and have been using them quite often. No issues so far other than the battery cover not being the best; I did the black tape fix. I had been wondering just how accurate they are. Thanks for the info!
Hi, funny thing about the black tape, that's the most point those cheap calipers got in common...
Even now my second cheap caliper, the newer one got promoted to the black tape rank... lol
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Cheap or expencive, not see any big difference in accuracy in my experience. A caliper is not a accurate instrument anyway, better use it as 'guidance'. Naturally, for most of us doing this for as a hobby, it's usually more than accurate with a caliper. The biggest difference between cheap and expencive ones are battery life, in my opinion. Like a 1 day vs 5 years. those cheap calipers are EATING batteries bigtime!! at least the ones I'm familiar with.
Right about the aproximate accuracy of a caliper, and, it depends how close you need to get , some are better on battery life but sadly there is no certain way to find out before you try, the Dollar Store batteries or batches on eBay could help but you don't want to be left with 1000 minus 5 batteries to trash...
I would guess there are variations in battery life, both among cheap and expencive brands. I've got some $20 calipers on my lathe, accuracy is fine, but the battery life, oh my god..) If I'm unfortunate and forget to remove the batteries and let them be on from the morning until afternoon..nothing else to do run for new batteries next day) Bought a 'proffesional' caliper 20 years ago, Timex or something like that, $100 then. first battery change after 6-7 years, and it often happened I forget to turn it off for several days. Cost of batteries no bid deal, sure one can have a big storage of them, but just amazing such a big difference when it comes to battery life.
This is the first time someone tells me about a battery life that is soooo short as not even 24 hours... Normally for me a short life is more around a month or two as compared with the good brands they last years...
That unit would be in the trash as far as I'm concerned, this is really a crappy tool... :(
Rimrock300
I don't use mine very frequently so I remove the battery in between uses. To make it easier I actually glued an angled piece of plastic from an old credit card so I can pluck it out easily when I'm done using it. Battery lasts a long time then.
Wow, to discharge those batteries that fast, the calipers must be taking around 50 to 100 milliamps.
I wonder, have you tried genuine batteries? It might be possible that you've been scammed by the Chinese. Hell, some of those cheap power banks are nothing but a couple of old, used and often *worn out* battery cells from laptop batteries. I'm serious ... the cheapo chinese love reusing things.
Then again, there ARE good Chinese products, at least in my knowledge when it comes to electrical test equipment. (Hint: "Rigol")
Well done comparison. When I have to be right I use the regular old micrometer and for the rest the cheap calipers. I always drop the calipers and if they get damaged I don't feel too bad. Keep on keeping on.
Similar technique around here, except that not so bad on the dropping part, Pierre
I bought one of the cheaper models a few years ago and found it worked great, was accurate and in general no complaints.
I recently bought another 2 for general checking (appeared to be identical) for work and BOTH measured OK but drained the button cell battery in a couple of days, even when off. They are only usable if you remove the battery each time you are finished with it. We are binning them. Very disappointing.
Hi Lance,
Wow, a couple of days is a real bad deal... Is there any way to get it back to the store and complain, this doesn't make a good tool to keep. Never got a problem of the sort, the ones I own will last for at least 3 to five months with cheap batteries purchased at the Dollar Store at 5 for $1.00...
Good luck in getting those back where they come from and get a refund..
Thanks for your input and for comment, Pierre
Great video! Couldn't agree with you more. I think anybody buying a $12 caliper probably isn't doing something mission critical enough to cause a disaster if it's 1/1000th off. I love quality tools, and tools I use often are good quality, but I've always been okay with a "cheap" caliper - it isn't like I'm honing cylinder heads or anything. But if I was, I would probably step up to something nicer to prevent a headache.
I wanted to mention I notice the cheap caliper I have (the same $12 one you have) drains the coin cell if you leave it in. Seems to trickle power even when turned off, so I don't store it with the battery installed. Conveniently the case has a little divot for the battery to rest.
To get the proper tool for the job includes being realistic about the quality of that tool, calipers and verniers aren't "Super High Precision Tools", they're great to get near precision measurements, then, more precise tools are required, a good machinist is aware of this first hand...
BTW, those $12 calipesr are quite acceptables for most jobs in the shop, it saves the $$$$ ones some wear and tear.... 🌈👍
$12 is good value for that level of accuracy.
For most cases it is.....!!!!!
Mitituyo are much smoother and easier to control the thumb wheel. Cheaper ones can jump around a little when trying to hit a certain mark
The better quality tools are always worth the extra money, if you can afford to spend it. Be also aware that some lower priced items are also a good option for lower budget operations.
A good way to get good quality tools is to look for some well maintained used tools on your local adds or any source you trust...
get what you pay for. the cheaper ones good for rough work where it's not critical
Hy Roy, I totally agree with you on that... ;)
Thanks for comment, Pierre
I've bought a few cheapos, but everytime I need them, they're out of juice. So i bit the bullet and bought myself a new Mitutoyo when they were on sale. Those Mitus (and Tesas probably too) are in a league of their own, and I am happy to pay the price for them. They're well worth it.
How much did you pay for it when it was in sale ? The ones on eBay are fake they are cheap China crap!
@@ninjatheory7846 I bought the 500-181-30 for a little over €100. It's a 15cm (6") model without thumb wheel, without mm/inch button and without data output. (Just check with you local dealer for promotion sales )
The price range of the Tesa calipers also starts around € 100 . They're also worth checking out.
At first i bought a Gedore for €75, thinking a German name brand would be ok too, but when I read "Made in China" I sent them back immediately.
When required, good quality is always a better deal.... 🌈👍
calipers to stuff close then micrometers for the last .020"
That's what most serious machinists do and it works... !!! ;)
Thanks for comment, Pierre
+Pierre's Garage for a direct comparative measurement 0~0 cheap ones are very close
Except for real fnacy work this Mastercraft take all the beating, I'm talking about the one with the electrical tape to keep the battery in the box...
Where it gets different is when it comes to measure inside, if you get a little spare time there is a video where it makes the brand name winners...
+Pierre's Garage best calipers only get you close, inside mic, bore gage and when all else fails snap gages.
You're absolutely right about that... Couldn't agree better... ;)
I love Mitutoyo calipers! I did buy a cheap one because of cost. I have checked out other cheap ones. I can honestly say, the feel and true accuracy, Mitutoyo all the way! :)
My first tools like 40 years ago were Miyutoyo and it's still my favorite for many f their tools...
A good used Mitutoyo on local adds is usually an happy find.... ;)
That's not a bad idea, about getting a used Mitutoyo caliper. Appreciate the tip. The quality doesn't get much better. :)
Until a year ago. i rocked that haircut but with a 6 inch beard 4 inch mustache and short hair on top. and by rocked it i mean i did that for 2 years straight.. how i still got laid is beyond me.
i use various mitutoyo for 12 years, they´re really durable and precise.
Mitutoyo's were the first precision measuring tools I got around 40+ years ago, and, still in great shape, those are kinda my favorites... ;)
Thanks for comment, Pierre
as long as you're using the inch as a unit, it doesn't matter which caliper you use! period!
look, a member of the metric system master race acting like a child.
btw, i am not american and i only know metric system, but i dont act like a smartass about imperial
no - you act like a dumbass about the metric master race ;)
TechTom and yet I am a member of this master race. I just don't act like a smartass like you
Using inches is more preferable for everyday staff, and why can't you use imperial, its probably harder work for you.
elintra because only two retarded countries in this world rely on imperial. imperial is not logic, unprecise and hey...
look at the definitions of the imperial units. nowadays all of them are defined by a factor of a meteic unit...
so in fact you have already the metric system, but you convert it to imperial for no logical reason.
It would have been interesting to see the micrometer readings on those gauge blocks for comparison.
Hi, just any micrometer is going to be more precise than a caliper even a good brand name tool, I've got another video where I compare gauge blocks and us micrometers if you're interested here are some links:
ruclips.net/video/KB9gQmmMpVM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/IfAB1o0-Tjo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/VquhlPbIBzk/видео.html
Hope you enjoy the discussion about different aspects of metrology applied to smaller shops or for hobby use...
Pierre
Nice job on the compare.
Hello Randy, some people might be surprised with the results if they ever decide to test their tools... lol
Cheers, Pierre
It's either the cheap one or none. That's the choice for me. I'm a do it your selfer, not a pro. Much of what I do is woodworking, so my $15 one is awesome. Nice to see someone who isn't a tool snob.
Since there are lots of good tools in the budget price, you're doing the best for you, beside not being certified those tools are gonna last you a long time with quite accurate measurements, if you own or know someone with good references, like gauge blocks or similar you could verify the accuracy of your caliper.
There is a more recent video I produced with a more accurate way of testing calipers, in case you're interested, here is the link:
ruclips.net/video/hQqFAfPLid0/видео.html
Thanks for viewing and for your comment, Pierre
These are great till the battery goes flat, when your out on a job. I prefer the traditional job. When will America get out of the stone age and go metric. Good interested test, thanks.
Canada is quite metric on most measures, schools have been teaching it for many years now. The young generation is using metric on almost all.
All of our containers, speed, distance, temperature are metric.
Construction are still using some imperial basic measures, as an example, plywood paneling is still 4 feet by 8 feet, but, the thickness is gone metric with let's say thickness of 19 millimeters, also lots of hardware and fasteners are still imperial, it's getting very much easier to get metric versions at all suppliers.
On the other hand, the US are not very advanced in the usage of metric except for the car industry and a few other applications...
Thanks for viewing and for comment.... 🙂👍
America has been metric for decades
@@SoloRenegade Supposedly. Like the UK the older blokes still like imperial measurements. Just an age thing.
@@stephenlennox6491 I don't find either an issue. Where I work we use imperial and metric at the same times even, doesn't phase us. Rarely encounter conversion issues either. I like how easy metric units convert, but no unit of measure is perfect, even metric. And metric still is used improperly at times, such as kg for weight and mass. 10 doesn't divide cleanly into 3 or 4. Imperial can do tenths, same as metric. Metric still uses hr/sec, and degrees, same as imperial.... to me, arguing over units is like arguing over language that never stops evolving, kinda pointless really, when you think about it enough.
I just tested my Fowler on the 1-2-3 blocks I have thanks to this video. Although a little rough in measurement they seemed to be no more than half a thou over. Definitely good enough for hobbyist. The Canadian Tire one I had was a piece of crap - it had a problem on the quadrature sensor that caused it to jump some 5mm at random locations - it was the same jump every time. So I just got something a little better.
Hi Jeffrey,
You really need to be choosy when you get the Canadian Tire calipers, some aren't that good depending of the batches...
A caliper in a precise tool but far from a super precision tool, all depends on what your tolerances are, this is where judgement is to be used... ;)
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
I'll use this video in future when I can't sleep, it is beating the old one of paint drying by several inches😂
nilus1955 What's that in metric...?
Good test, when I get better I will up grade to the not so cheap ones. Good video, thanks.
The cheaper ones are great to do jobs in harsh conditions or to get close from targeted measures, then, a better tools is required to get better results... ;)
The cheaper callipers are good for measuring drill bits as you have to twist them about in the jaw to get a proper reading. As you know that's how 'twist drills' cut (or mark here) so a HSS bit twisting against the jaws of a device for accurate measurements over time isn't a good thing. The cheap ones are, well they're cheap & accurate enough. Good for college kids training as +-0.25mm tolerance on their jobs anyway.
Ashley McGovern
If you are measuring the diameter of drills, HSS or not, you should measure the shank of the drill above the cutting edges.
That way you're not touching the jaws with the cutting edges of the drill and should be doing no damage.
wontputrealname It doesn't always work like that in a toolroom environment. There are drills that have been re sharpened over & over & done well or badly & it's the tip that cuts not the shank. Especially when you need a specific odd size to pre-drill when tapping etc. We were always taught the shank can be fatter / bigger dia than the flute/tip. Always measure the tip. When making gauges to strict tolerances for the quality control to use, you can understand. It's not like building a bird box in my shed then.
+Ashley McGovern
The flutes are NEVER of a larger diameter than the shank.
If the hole bored is bigger the drill hasn't been re-ground properly.
If the drill is ground with the cutting edges only slightly of unequal length, the hole will be larger than the drill's rated size.
Most of the time the accuracy is more than good enough on those calipers, if more precision is needed, then, a micrometer or something in that precision range is required.
Drill bits just about never make a final hole the rated diameter, it's always a little larger if the flutes are vrey close to even on each side, and, much bigger if the flutes are uneven... This is another area of machining where the precision isn't the first call... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
+Pierre's Garage
This is why for a 1/2 inch hole to slide a bolt through, a 1/2 inch drill is fine as a new drill will drill a hole about 3 to 5 thou oversize, one which has been "done up" fairly well will be about 8 to 10 thou oversize.
If, however, a 1/2 inch hole with a closer tolerance is needed, then a 31/64" drill should be used and a 1/2" reamer passed through the hole after as the reamer will give a hole
I disassembled my cheap caliper. I looked at the circuit board finger pattern that forms the capacitive sensor with a microscope. I could see that the layout was not drawn with knowledge of the pcb manufacturers print resolution, as there was a visible error in the spacing of the traces. If the traces are not positioned at integer number of final print resolution steps, the PCB traces will have some dither to their positions, limiting the resolution of the instrument. Doing it correctly costs nothing. Apparently Mitutoyo engineers bothered to work with their PCB maker to do this right. Very amazing to see the performance.
Most of the time, using the same materials will give two very different products, and, most of the time only a few operations better taken care will make all the difference, this is where we differentiate the better companies from the lousy ones...
Good observation...!!!
YES WELL, IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH A HAMMER, IT'S AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM, MAXXAUS.
There are lots of electrical problems on this Earth, we need MORE electricians..... 😈😉🌈👍
It’s worth noting the Mitutoyo has 5 digits of resolution vs 4 with the Mastercraft. That could be important in something other than woodworking but it does emphasize the higher quality tool. I’ve used a Mitutoyo vernier caliper for over 40 years with confidence that I wouldn’t have in a cheap tool.
My first measuring tools about 45 years ago were Mitutoyo tools, no digital though. Those are always reliable and in perfect shape. The better tools are always an investment, sometimes when working in a harsh or crappy environment where the better tools could be rapidly abused or even destroyed, this is where the secondary or cheaper decent tools will not hurt the heart of someone that likes tools....
Guess this no secret that a caliper or a verner has limited precision, for me it's more considered as an "Aproximeter", all depends of the required tolerances for the actual job...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
why does he keep saying .05 when he means .0005 or 1/2 a thousandth with calipers this means nothing
They are called " very near " for a reason. As a toolmaker for indicators I use mostly Interapid. For inspection I use Compac/Interapid. Mitutoyo verniers are well made. The model you have is very sensitive to coolant/getting wet. They have a water resistant model which is excellent too. Can't beat quality. Fowler/Starret/Brown & Sharpe don't cut it for me. All my inspection mics are Mitutoyo and back in the day had Etalon. Good video but knowing the size of your build up clearly influenced how you used the measuring instruments. For a proper test you should have someone give you a Gauge build up stack that you do not know the size. Good video and cheers.
Good idea about the unknown stack, even with experience there could be a slight bias...
Since there is no CNC and the only machines using coolant are a surface grinder and a band saw, I'm not worried about the coolant proof tools.
If you wish there is a more recent video where I evaluate a digital caliper on the cheaper side using a method much closer to the ISO standard, here is the link:
ruclips.net/video/hQqFAfPLid0/видео.html
Thank you for viewing and taking time to share your experience, Pierre
@@pierresgarage2687 Sure as my coolant comment was for others and let's be honest we shouldn't be getting them wet but again from experience just 1 tiny spec will set them off.
That's not a very good review of calipers. Go over to the channel for AvE and see that review of calipers. He actually tears them apart and you understand the difference in the electronics and you'll know that your batteries will die very very fast in the cheap one.
This review is meant to be somthing different, if I want to know the how and why of the battery life then I watch AVE's video again... This is more directed to the use and difference in accuracy and quality controll of the tools...
Pierre;
I think there is variability among the Harbor Freight calipers. I have a 6" HF that I have used for years and it is dead nuts accurate as compared to my Starrett calipers and when measured against my Starrett gauge blocks. And, it doesn't eat batteries (I go about 3 years between battery changes) and feels smooth as glass. For everyday machining, it is more than adequate and I don't worry if I ever drop it, etc. I even got it for free with an HF coupon. My lucky day ;)
For higher precision work, I go with the Starrett calipers or switch to my Starrett mic's. Seeing as 90% of what I machine is in the +/- 2 thou range of needed accuracy, the mic's don't come out all that often.
Thanks for showing this.
Regards;
Ron Kluwe
Hi Ron, since the cheaper units are a little on the irregular side, it's normal to get some that are pretty "dead on" with reference gauges, the problem comes with the fact that there is lots of variance within the batches...
Lots of my work requires closer tolerances, so, a micrometer is always at hand...
Thanks for your input, Pierre
What's wrong with a regular non digital vernier guage? Bloody lazy youngsters these days!
+Peter Huskins
Most people either don't know, or can't be bothered to learn, how to read a VERNIER caliper, yet they have the cheek to call digital calipers by the same name.
Digital calipers are NOT vernier calipers, as I'm sure you know.
Well said! There's certainly a sense of satisfaction when you're young and learning the tools of the trade in learning how to read a vernier scale. Like the people who blindly follow the sat-nav in their cars as it guides them off a cliff, they will just look at a digital read-out and not think about the numbers they're seeing.
Hi Peter,
As we get older those digital tools are a blessing in order to ease the reading, before those came a common item I use to read a regular vernier scale, but, now with age it's much more difficult to see and make out the scale.... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
No problem Pierre. I'm just a bit of an old duffer when it comes to modern tech. Im sure in another 100 yrs when Im old and my eyes don't work so well, I'll buy one! ; )
in the same manner, whats wrong with using paper and pencil instead of a calculator for doing all the calculations for your job?
whats wrong with using regular mail service instead of e-mail?
its just faster and more efficient. thats all.
yes, Vernier calipers are cool to work with when you are at your Eng workshop class, but when you have deadlines at your work, you dont have the luxury of time
Thanks . I worried that cheap amazon ones would be inaccurate but within 1/1000” of the accuracy of expensive ones I think the cheap ones will be great for me. Accurate to 0.01mm is all I need
did you notice that you got 3.1415 on minute 7:14? by chance? hahahaha
Not then, but now I see it... ;)
Thanks for comment, Pierre
I worked in a hydraulic pump repair shop and we had all kinds of different brands of calipers and micrometers and all that stuff and my favorites were always the mitutoyos.
However that was a while ago have no idea what their quality is like now.
Same here, Mitutoyos were my firsts about 40 years ago, still true now... The better tools are always "Better Tools"...
If you measure in inches your opinion is irrelevant.
I don't see why this comment would be so much more relevant...???
Makes sense to me to use British Units when the reference blocks are in British Units!
the British use the metric system
That's not the point! The test was of the accuracy of various devices. The tests were using calibrated blocks that were British units; therefore it seems reasonable that one would test using the units that match the reference material.
if you go back to imperial measurement systems you are idiots-you even decimalized the £
If you don't have gauge blocks, to assess the error of your calipers - don't fret. You can easily make a graph comparing measures taken with micrometers to measures taken of the same place on the same piece with the calipers. Then you can extrapolate your corrections to the readouts as indicated by the graph.
You're right about the fact there are many ways to control some measuring tool, as you probably know the resolution on calipers is kinda poor, mostly when you try to determine something like a part that measure in tenths of inches, there is now real sure way to determine if you're in the upper or lower tenths...
As mentioned calipers are more for loose tolerances and approximation, this is more the intended message of this video...
Thanks, Pierre
Thanks have used cheap ones and for what I have done they have been fine. but as you said at the end micrometers are the best! thanks for your work!
Hi Danne,
If a tool is used for what it is with it's limitations, there is no problem to it... ;)
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
I might have taken all those measurements with the gage blocks always on that paper surface. Imagining that heat from your hands might have some (small) effect upon the block... expansion.. plus repeated use will likely contaminate the surfaces. Perhaps the 1" block is encased in plastic for the heat transfer reason?
Calipers won't be able to discriminate the difference at all, it's not a rated for precision under one thousand of an inch, the blocks expansion is way under that with a few degrees difference.
You may worry about this if you need precision in micron...
Not really achievable unless you operate a highly precise machining facility, then, you must have a separate controlled atmosphere metrology department... This gets to be really $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I use verniers for rough measurement only. If I need very close tolerances it's micrometers for me. As for cheap versus top of the line, well on occasion things get dropped or damaged. $12.00 versus $120.00 seems lot better to me.
You're quite right about the precision of even a lower priced mocrometer, it's easyly 10 times more accurate than even the best quality vernier or caliper.
Cheers,
Pierre
I worked in machine shops back in the 70s when Mitutoyu WAS the cheap brand, and Brown & Sharps was the best.
Also in the 70's, my first vernier and first micrometer were Mitutoyo, still got those and they are in great shape, remember that they were quite costly, as for quality those didn't have much to envy to other more namely brands, they were considered cheap only cause at that time Japan made items weren't very valued in people's eyes.
Thanks for your comment...
Mitutoyo and other Japanese brands suffered from the 60s stigma of "made in Japan" cheap junk but we just didn't realize at the time that the Japanese were starting to crank out high quality stuff.
Long story short, I found a set of mitutoyos at workA and appropriated them. The difference in FEEL between harbor freight and these is astounding
There is a reason to pay a "Little" more for a tool... lol
I've been using mututoyos since ever 40 years and they're still doing great.
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Great vid! I found that most frustrating thing cheap digital calipers is the battery life! Where as Quality caliper manufacturers batteries last years. I a set of Tesa calipers that I have owned for 8 years are still on the original battery
With most digital calipers I expect at least one year of battery life, a little moe on brand names, we just need to be aware that there the SR-44 and LR-44 types, the SR are more expansives and will outlast the LR series, since most of us buy the LR batteries we get about one year, the SR will at least double or triple that time, at a cost, though...
* 8 years is a LONG time....!!!!
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Depending on the application it's being used on, cheap Chinese made calipers are just fine. I bought a plastic cheap one for $7 specifically to measure bullet casing lengths for my reloading and it's served me well.
Hi, and with the plastic one you can work in a magnetic anvironment and get away with it... All depends on what is the required precision is... Mine has been doing great for many years already...... ;)
Thnaks for viewing and for your input, Pierre
Good Video
i have the same Crappy tire one
tried to sell the mitutoyo dial gauge at garage sale not even $20 bucks folks would not buy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chinese Quality improved alot
I have Snap on Tools , waisted my money
Canadian Tire Pro series looks the Same
Craftsman just sold to Stanley Tools
I have a mitutoyo, and a couple $15 Amazon Chinesium grade calipers. They all give exactly 1.0000, 2.0000 etc on guage blocks, but for some reason I still trust the mitutoyo more.
The biggest thing, is that the mitutoyo feels nicer, and I can leave it on 24/7 for years and the battery is fine. The cheap ones last a few months even off, since they really are still measuring in order to auto turn on when moved.
Good brand name tools are 99% better and reliable than the cheaper ones, but, in certain places or circumstances the cheaper ones have some place as long as we know where their limit is... ;)
Cheaper batteries can be purchased in places like Dolar Stores for like 5 for a dollar, this is what I do for the cheap tools.
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Clean it then wiggle it. Never wiggle it prior to cleaning it. Good advice Pierre, as always.
Guess I'm more use in the kitchen to the "Shake and Bake", that doesn't apply to caliper... lol
Got to reorganize my routine...
Thanks for viewing and for comment, Pierre
Two questions/comments:
1. It looks like there would be in induced error just from placing the stock in the calibers by hand. If the stock/gage block is not exactly square with the jaws with one end high or low, the calipers reading would be affected. This corresponds with use on a lathe where the calipers is not applied exactly perpendicular to the work. The thin calipers jaws do not necessarily square the tool with the work.
2. The test would benefit from a duplication check. Do the calipers read the same in multiple readings, perhaps returning to the stock after measuring something else.
Good video. Thank you.
My $10 PITTSBURGH from H.F. started blinking the display on & off. I cleaned the battery contacts... nope, didn't help. I just finished cleaning the ruler face and PCB face with rubbing alcohol and now it is fixed. Good video thanks.
Sometimes it doesn't take much to interfere with the reader unit of the tool, your $10 tool will surely live as long as an costly tool, it will do what you require.
Thanks for taking a moment to share your experience... Pierre
No competition Mitutoyo all day long. Cheap models do not last. You just need to hold the 2 models in your hand to no which is Best. Quality always shines through. Nice job Mitutoyo class act. My 12inch version cost a decent amount 2nd one in 35 years. So about the same cost as buying 35 plus cheap ones. But still looking like new and just as accurate.
Well said, quality is always a better option in the long run... 🌈👍
I bought a cheap harbor freight 8” digital caliper 29.99 many years ago for scribing lines and rough work and it is holding up real nice, bought another one about a year ago and it is not as good as the older one ( it eats batteries and always is jumping .200)