That thing is a wreck. If it needs a couple of engines, along with all of the other faults you know about, and the ones you haven't found yet, you'll be up to your neck in $450,000 for an aircraft which might be worth $200,000. I hope you walked away from it. Buy a better one for $200,000 and save half of your expenditure.
Jimmy - Get one of the small borescope type cameras that connect to your phone! Seriously cheap tool ($20-50) and super useful. Vote this up so Jimmy sees it!
This advise is not meant for Jimmy. He is, after all the guy that bought the 'Elvis' plane from a crooked auctioneer using the oldest trick in the book; the phantom bidder.
Yep as far as you can, also the confidence the seller shows with that retched in his hand, shows to me he is bluffing. Also, for engines that have bin running yesterday !!!!, they Shure are NOT running today. Cheers.
Well Jimmy...l long for the near future...when great aged airplanes can be repurposed into clean electric motors and fuel cells /batteries. So cost prohibited engine replacement can keep these older proven fliers..in the air. ..not rotting on ground due to repair costs due to certified engines pricing and repairs... Imagine the solar panels on top of your hanger giving you working power, lights and keeping your plane fully charged RTG any time.... 5:18
I think Jimmy was under the impression the plane was in really good shape and air worthy... I know, when it's used you never assume anything, especially nowadays when your word doesn't mean much to people. Benefit of the doubt.
@@alanbishop332 no he knew it was not flyable, and even if he didn’t when going to look at cars or planes you always bring some basics for an inspection.. especially when driving
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 lol I wish, did not even stay at a holiday inn last night. But I do have 2000 hours in king air 350 and 3000 hours in C208’s. The Caravan is sweet flying extremely reliable safe do almost everything airplane. Jimmy should look at a Malibu or Navajo both excellent recip airplanes.
@@justusetpecator yes I have over 50,000 hours in my carrier I've flew F15, F16, F22,F35 and 727, 737,747,757,767,777 and A300, A320(every model) A330, A340, A350 and A380 and finally flew a Lancaster bomber at an airshow in 2012 before I retired. I've flown about 50k hours on Microsoft flight sim since then. I'm probably one of the most experienced pilots in the world but I don't like to boast because I'm humble
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Sweet … that is so cool. I don’t see it as a boast, I think you have or had fantastic career. Do you still fly, maybe own your own plane?
Jimmy, my dad has 5 kids and a wife. He owned an Aztec but felt he needed something larger. So, he landed a deal on a C-421. After owning it for four years, he calculated it cost $975.00 an hour to operate. My dad stated, he could have CHARTERED a LEAR JET for less. In the 1980s.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 The hourly cost is not as important as one might think. For someone with clients within 2-3 hours flight time, but no local airline service, it makes total sense. Also depends on what your time is worth. If you're billing out at $150 per hour and it takes you 4 hours to drive each way but only 1½ hour to get to the airport and then get to the destination, you end up with substantially more billable hours per day. The "right" aircraft is a very valuable tool for those that have to travel to their customers.
I have bought 8 airplanes, but have looked at dozens (in an attempt to buy). It’s just infuriating how often people will misrepresent the aircraft they are selling. It doesn’t matter that you have to travel hundreds of miles at great expense. They always act surprised when you find out what a hunk of junk they have.
I drove 24 hours to purchase a 36' boat. Upon arrival I discovered everything, and I mean EVERYTHING was not as advertised. The seller thought I was attempting to negotiate. I said no, there's not a chance in Hades this is coming home with me and honestly it should not ever be placed on the water again.
I rode from maryland to ft myers with my father in law to buy a boat. We got there and found almost every bit of gelcoat craked, so they must've found the one good spot to take a pic. Looked at it for about 2 minutes and turned around and drove 21 hours back😂😂
@@jakleo337 If the Bible did not command against it I would certainly agree on the last point. But the boat thing is a bit different. I want to own my boat so I can customize it like I want it. My boat is not "a deal". It's a lifestyle. I have it parked out back on the saltwater canal so I can just step outside on a whim and be in the ocean in 10 minutes. Way different than an aircraft. But yes, high maintenance nonetheless.
Actually restarts in-flight were pretty easy, especially if you had unfeathering accumulators. Mixture - Idle Cutoff, Throttle - Open, Propeller - Unfeather, Mixture - advance slowly. If there were no mechanical problems she would light off pretty quickly.
What You Said ! (Or pilot debrief). I'm glad Jimmy has Darn Good Sense ! He makes out like He doesn't but He's one of the Smartest Guys I've run across
The ABS altitude is a radar altimeter! The first clue is the DH light. You set the Radar Altimeter to the DH of the approach and that light goes on and a tone is generated in your headset when you reach DH.
I'm not a pilot nor an A&P, but allow me to channel Monty Python and say... "run away! run away!" Seems to be a fairly common practice to prime radial engines until fuel starts to flow out onto the ground, don't remember seeing that technique with other engines. After the de-gloving talk, Silas will never again wear a watch. But yeah, something like a watch or bracelet can de-glove a hand.
After instructing in all the twin Cessnas, I always recommend starting the left engine first. That is because the battery cable to the left starter is very short! Yes, they are persnickity to start, but each of the GTSIO engines has its own mind. VG kit is good for takeoffs, but don't add the extra weight. That way you will have better engine out controllability on takeoff. This is equipped with boots and hot props, but NOT certified for flight into known icing. The spoiler STC is always a nice addition to the CE-421.
And I have always instructed starting the starboard engine first. For two reasons, 1., if the battery is not strong enough to start the starboard engine first, then it should be charged or replaced while on the ground. You don't want a low battery being charged in the air. Good way to have an inflight fire. 2., The cabin entrance is on the port side. If the port engine is started first and a fire erupts, crew and passengers will have to disembark into flames. If you start the starboard engine first and a fire erupts you can exit the aircraft without endangering the passengers and crew. If you start the port engine second and a fire erupts, then with the starboard engine already running, you can use it to power up and taxi the aircraft forward and out of the flames allowing the passengers and crew to disembark safely. I have personally seen a pilot start the port engine first, over prime it like in this video, and the large puddle of fuel catch fire! Luckily a quick lineman grabbed a fire extinguisher and put out the flames. The paint was burned off the bottom of the wing and there was other fire related damage as well. The passengers exited, frightened, but no worse for the wear.
they could have put a bucket to catch it and could have put it back in to show it to the next guy that was on his way to look at it because they sure was not fixing anything
Before going to OCS in the Army and being commissioned in the Field Artillery, I was a aircraft electrician. As a rotary wing mechanic, we had the one guy I went to school with who managed to set off both squib bottles (fire suppression) on a UH-60 Blackhawk. Another graduate of Ft. Eustis in my class was asked to never turn wrenches on an aircraft again and was re-assigned as a unit clerk. Oh to be young again and enjoy the follies of youth and the misfortunes of others.
AS I read your post I hadda smile because my military days (1966 thru 1973) was kinda similar. Enlisted and did my Basic & AIT at Ft. Lewis Wa. as 11B10 (infantry), 1968 as a SPC4 applied for and attended NCO academy. Came out with E5, immediately applied for and attended OCS. Commissioned 2nd Lt in 1969. Went to Ft. Sill for branch and became a Field Artillery Officer. Likely as you as a JO I was mess Officer, motor pool Officer, Safety Officer,, you know, the have a butter bar run the gamet of jobs, it's how a 'shave tail' Lt learns what the jobs are and how to work with your NCO's. 1973 I was a 1st Lt XO for Battery A, 2nd Btn 218th Arty but had enough. Resigned my commission June of that year and called my military career done.Thank you for YOUR service TexasGrandDad 🙂
Jimmy, what you're missing is that you're trying to get an aircraft airworthy that if it were manufactured today would cost well over 1.8 million. The only other similar Piston Twin aircraft in production today are the Beechcraft Baron and Technam 2012. The Technam 2012 which is the only cabin class Piston Twin in production is $2.5 million. The maintenance costs for the Baron and the Technam are calculated based on the costs of manufacture. The 421 is a big complex aircraft just like the Baron and Technam, which by the way neither are pressurized. The market for Twin Cessna's is very small due to the maintenance costs and availability of parts. You cannot look to recover the costs of what it will take to get this 421B airworthy. Doesn't happen that way. Remember this is a 51 year old aircraft that has been sitting for some time with deferred maintenance. . There is currently a RUclips video of an owner that put in $250,000 of Garmin upgrades into his 414A. There is no way he will ever recover those costs when he goes to sell. The value of the 421B you are looking at is based on core value if you were to sell it for salvage. In my estimate the $100,000 price the owner is looking for is pretty close to core value if you were to part it out. Additionally the cost of TurboProp Single Engine aircraft is less than a Technam 2012 so potential buyers are more likely to purchase a Turboprop with higher reliability PT6's and better performance which are easily maintained by service centers all over the world. Piston Twins are a dying breed with the exception of smaller ones used for ME training. If you're going to buy a cabin class piston twin you're going to have to realize that you're not going to make money reselling it and those of us that still have them keep them because we love them....
I don't think this is lost on him. The point is, even a solid airframe can be mechanically totalled because it makes more sense to pay twice the money for a sorted one than to buy one that needs work. It's not that the projects are necessarily overvalued - its that the good ones are undervalued.
@@eagle2019help me to understand your point. Whether an airplane is sorted and $200k, or half that with 100k in required repairs, what is the difference? Either way, 100k is not going to cut it. I totally see your point if the issues are cosmetic but aircraft is airworthy - in which case a person can slowly improve while flying. But in this case, 100k won't cut it either way.
@@prodigalpilot The $100k airplane may not need $100k in repairs immediately to be airworthy. To get this airplane back in the air may require a minimal number of repairs. Looks like a fuel pump and maybe a couple of other things. Everything else can be repaired over time and be paid for over time. $100k may be enough. If the engine is making metal, there is no requirement to buy a new engine or get it overhauled. Many companies buy used engines at a much lower cost. This is especially true in the jet and turbo prop world. They can buy a mid-time engine for way less than $100k. There are numerous ways of cutting cost when on a budget. Flight schools and charter operators are famous for this.
@@eagle2019 I don't disagree. I think my last point is i would be uncomfortable purchasing any plane that i do not also have liquidity enough to resolve any issue that may come up. Therefore, my position would remain "if all you have is 100k to spend, then you can't afford a cabin class twin" - good day! To be clear - by my definition - i certainly can't afford a cabin class twin!
seller expects good cashout for something that needs maybe and additional 200k dollars pouring into it to make it airworthy. probably hes never going to sell it which than the plane ends up as sparedonor or scrap either way i agree with you that old man has lost its mind thinking the money he poured in he could somehow get it back by some iditot buying it from him for 100k
I have a relative that has a 340 for sale for 125k. Meticulously maintained for charter use. Really nice plane. He replaced the engines or engine within the last couple years
I have a 76'340A, Very low time Ram Engines, it breaks my heart the 340 is not valued near as highly as a Baron. The 340 is a great flying airplane, and has great room in it for a entry level cabin class twin.
Jimmy, look up the N421KC report, if you can’t get engine started in 6-7 blades, by continuing to try to start the GTSO, you will destroy the starter drive, that’s what happened to this aircraft, the guy who bought it from Fla for $110K could not understand how to start and operate a cabin class twin, it was a sad story, but luckily they walked away from death that day, actually flew this airplane once, and warned the owner to never fly it again until he replaces the engines, and get some emergency training. He had never flown in a pressurized airplane before, I have a far amount of time in all 421s , they are wonderful airplanes and require constant feeding to properly and safely,Maintain and operate., great videos
I say, "Walk, Walk, Walk away from this bad day and don't look back, Jack!" For what that 421 will end up costing you to get airworthy and keep it that way, you could buy a lot of airlines tickets for you and your wife--FIRST CLASS, and coach for the kids and still have enough cash to put fuel in the Lancair or 310. I will say, however, that the 421 travels and travails would make for some great video content. So, there is that to consider. I love t!he Jimmys World. You make me laugh and miss those GA days that were such an important part of my early aviation career. God bless you and your sweet family, Jimmy
but before you totally bail.... haller at those boys over at JR AVATION for like yea.... see how much it actually TOOK WITH THEIR $$$ tossed into it!!! :) LOL MMMMMUUUAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA just a thought
Learned the $hard$ way on restoring my 1966 Austin Healey 3000 BJ 8. A fool and his gold are soon parted. Shoulda been suspicious when the odometer only showed 30K miles but it was sitting in a field with a tree growing up through the rotted out rag top and holes in the floor boards!! Ha Ha! Who was it that sang...."Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.....??" Good luck, Jimmy!!
Jimmy - Ya don't have to have all those motors, & sht like that! '61, boarded Lan Chile DC-6 in Panama, but landed in single engine plane on Threshold of Miami, after losing all but #1 in fireballs over Caribbean! After roll-out, she bumped up on end of runway, & Capt said, "Welcome to Miami"! Should I check on status of plane today, so you might get 'er cheap?
Yep. Most people close a throttle when an engine of any kind floods out. The best restart is always pedal to the floor and hold without extra pumping. Maximize air flow and minimize fuel.
@@buckmurdock2500 I am not a mechanic and I've only had a twin cessna about 25 years. There is an overflow tube, not sure if it is from the spider or where exactly it comes from, but there is a tube, and you can see it in the video.
You got Circle K all over Canada as well.... Im not an aviation or airframe mechanic but my truck mechanic side says fuel pouring out is not normal....
The death null on this deal for me is this… you want to sell it on at some point in the future. You already have a motor that’s nearly timed out, Which assuming it’s actually ok will make it hard to sell in the future, when it’s even closer to timed out if not fully timed out. Someone, somewhere, sometime is going to be on the hook for that 100+g engine. Ain’t no getting away from that, and until that pill gets swallowed the value of the plane will be adversely effected
Im a cabin class twin Cessna insurance instructor. 421B the B is for best right?!?! 😂 In all seriousness that bird is a unique beast. Besides the obvious GTSIO engine items… you’d want to inspect the trunions, probably have your brake master cylinders overhauled, nose gear linkage, trim rod, door seals, and windows. I would switch to Michelin tires and keep 10 pounds more in the mains than the book says (85psi). I personally think the 340 is the best of them all. Everyone always want a 414A because it has the cabin of a 421 and a 4ft longer “wet” wing. The 340 has a smaller cabin but the same engines as 414 and same fuel system as the bird your looking at in this video. The way I describe to my students is 421 is a millionaires plane, 414 is a passengers plane, and 340 is a pilots plane. If you can squeeze the friends and family in the smaller 340 cabin you’ll appreciate the performance of that plane.
On further reflection, I have come to believe that anyone who owns a plane is considered to be filthy rich by anybody else in the world, especially those who SERVICE those planes. The prices you mention for parts and labor are insane unless you are filthy rich. Not just rich, but...filthy rich. And, the built in laws that require expensive "Annuals" and "AD's" just keep the liquid gold flowing in the fuel lines. Kinda like the hearing aid world where I come from. Of course, the devices are much smaller, but the process is much the same. $5 grand for a small device that is still simply a receiver and an amplifier.
It’s interesting seeing the owners keeping their mouth shut knowing all the problems it has as they watch and see if you figure it out. Like dad used to say “people are funny”.
You read my mind. In fact, I notice this happens in most of Jimmy's (and many of us in our normal lives) in such 'potential buyer' situations. At best it's 'shady'. I can just hear the conversation the next day: Jimmy "I noticed the 'metal in the screen'" entry". Owner "Oh, you caught that did you?".
Oh yea, the old “I’ve got a couple more guys looking at it” line. Play hardball, Jimmy. It’s worth 75, no more. Tell him, “no worries, I’ll let the couple more guys buy it” and walk away. Call his bluff.
@@donaldwatson554 This stupid old man isn't reputable lied about all the problems and give the ol "it started fine yesterday" dosn't even seem like he's got a clue how to start he thing. Complete joker
The stories didn't even match logs or evidence either. Spider webbs and they couldn't start it to go with the story that they run the engines so often. The flight hours over the last 7 years don't match their usage story either. It seems with the metal they knew the engine was bad and procrastinated fixing it for lack of money and now they're ditching it.
I flew and oversaw maintenance on a 421B. When they are in great shape and the engine, prop and heater hours are good plus its ADs current and the avionics are good, it MIGHT be a good plane. That one engine has too much time. These plane are best maintained when one pilot is doing most of the flying. The engines require very exact power management. Run away from this bird and take the family to dinner!
The fuel was pouring out of it because you had the mixtures full rich! You're supposed to prime it and then pull the mixtures to idle cutoff. As you crank it, when she lights off you move the mixtures to full rich. You flooded the engines and the fuel was pouring out of the manifold drains. That was a fire waiting to happen. Were there no checklists on board?? I have 4,000 hours in 300 and 400 series Twin Cessna's.
My first thought about the oil shavings in the filter was, “Looks like somebody’s been backlashing this propeller gears.” The boss used to beat it in our heads to plan way ahead for descents in the 421. Always do a long, cruise descent.
Many years ago I was flying a corp. pressurized Baron...parked next to me in the hanger was a Corp. 421 golden eagle. Went around the patch with him a couple of times....nice bird....Those TGIO 520s can be fairly quiet..at a cost. My friend had one engine failure on TO....NO problem saving the bird.....but the engines at the time, to overhall ,was extreme!!! I love CessnasI got my multi in a beautiful 310 Q model years ago.
You made the right decsion to walk away from that bird. The fuel leaks are a big concern. Remember the 421 has bladders, BIG $$$ The panel for the most part is very dated and needs upgrading. The other squawks you mentioned are big $$. Plus you hadn't even had a mechanic do a prepurchase on it. If they gave that airplane to you, you could easily invert more money then what it's maket value is, just to bring it up to something safe you'd want to fly your family in. I have considerable time in 421's, and they do a nice job, but you better have some deep pockets to stay on top of the maintenance. If you want a cabin class twin, I'd be looking at Cessna 340's. Much less to operate and maintain then a 421.
C 421 & 340... I have flown ...what worked the best is almost flood the engine, you will see some fuel on the ground under the engine draining... then lean it.... starter on till it starts then slowy add mixture...also flying it plan your desent so you slowy take power out ,since they are very sensitive if not mistaken is 1 inch every minute ...very nice machine to fly ...
There was a movie that came out in '94 that starred Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels that Jimmy needs to view. For 125K, there are a lot of RV's (especially in Fla) that would fully meet his needs.And Jimmy might even tow Elvis's discards.
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. You can't do a proper inspection with a cell phone flashlight app! You're a pilot. You should ALWAYS carry a good rechargeable pocket flashlight, and on inspection trips like this, a telescoping inspection mirror.
and one of those SHAKEY SHAKEY SHAKEY gives you 2 mins of light ONES TOO!!!! just saying...... BUT... if the FONE is IN RECORD MODE for him to send the videos to the mekinik for final GO FOR IT or RUN FROM IT decideing... well yea... then a FLASHLIGHT ain't gunna get the VIDEO griz needs for the ''fixin'' to come? or wordage to that effect
I really think this video was for entertainment purposes. I think he is much smarter than people give him credit for. I own a 421C and have committed to getting it to be my little airliner. It will take a while, but I'm well on my way.
Occasional starts can be even worse if they didn't give them a chance to heat up. Water is one of the two main products of combustion and when it first starts you get condensation in the cylinders and exhaust. If you shut it off before the condensation has been boiled off, well we all know what water and steel makes...
Exactly right!!! Procedure is to Prime then put the Mixtures to Idle Cut-Off. When the engine lights off, push mixture to full rich. The fuel pouring out of the manifold drains was because the mixtures were full rich!!
Hey Jimmy...SO what happened in the end? Will there be a part 2 to this airplane? Just asking. Thank you for taking us with you on these many adventures.
Im with you on that decision. Its got a lot going for it since its been stored in a hangar. But offer the 75K and see where that goes. If he has others coming to look at it he might come around to your offer if they all pass on it. Other than that. Know when to walk. Its easy to get caught up in the excitement and make an impulse purchase. Loved this video.
This video should be titled "how to not start a GTSIO-520". Pretty well know and established procedures for starting them, and waiting for fuel to pore out is not one of them...
A friend was flying a 402c freighter that I used to fly. I trained him how to start it. I warned him not to overprime the engine due to the possibility of hydraulic lock damaging a piston rod. Long story short, he broke a rod and destroyed the crank case. If you have to use a lot of prime to get it to start, either you are doing something wrong or the engine needs attention. In either case, dont over prime these engines.
I was hoping we'd at least hear what his offer was and the answer. I guess the inference to make is his offer was too low for the owner, so "NO SALE" was rung up.
He asked the guy if he would take 75k, and that old short guy said "no". If it were me, I would say, "then would you take 50k"? Then I would round up the family and head back home. And those geared engines have some quirks to them as well, which makes it even more expensive if not handled properly, jmho. @@KutWrite
@@gotchagoing4905: Yeah, but cutting out immediately is not good for the view-count! I say that as practicality, not as a criticism. I like Jimmy's channel, but do see some method to what I first thought was madness. He's quite smart! He got me to watch, though I'd have bet it was "no sale." Plus, I await the next video to see what his "Final Answer." (remember "Who... Millionaire?"
He (Jimmy) is very smart and very savvy. Now we have to wait until next week to see how that trip actually ended. I have never seen an engine pump out expensive 100LL on the ground while trying to start it up. That had me on the edge of my chair.I've taken fuel out of my ship to make c-rats coffee using a c-rats can and a handful of sand but that was jp-4. And that almost timed out engine I think that would be the actual deal killer,imho.@@KutWrite
My brother once purchased property with the contingency that if he had a well drilled there would be good water. If the well was good no problem, he would have had to put one in anyways and if not, he was only out the cost of the well but avoided the bigger expense of a unusable land purchase. The risk was minimal knowing surrounding properties had good wells. Meet the $100k purchase price dependent on the results of an annual inspection, offer too pay for half. If no insurmountable problems found you purchased the plane discounted by half the annual cost and the uncertainty of hidden problems removed. You would be able to calculate accurate restoration costs based and the inspection what it would take to safely ferry the plane home. If bad things were found consider money spent on the annual inspection the cost of avoiding a money pit and living longer.
Mike Busch has a webinar on this touchy subject. The only trouble is it's contingent on the plane being flyable to a nearby and impartial AP for the annual or pre-buy inspection.
Now I’m no Air plane pilot or aircraft mechanic but this deal looks like someone trying to sell you a polished turd Jimmy. I deal in new and used Appliances and this is exactly what I dealt with before just on a smaller scale, the owner needs to come way off on his price and the only person I would even see getting any value out of that plane is someone who has one already that has structural damage and a ton of good parts to swap. Thanks for another great video and I forgot to hit up your gas pump on my way thru Macon at Buckees but will do so later on this year!
I work on 402Cs a lot, I know different engine and non pressurized, but a lot of what I saw concerns me... Unless he lowers his asking price your better off walking from this one.
Oh man I’m so sorry. I can’t say I’ve been in this exact situation but I’ve been plenty close. It’s hard to convey the loss to anyone who doesn’t own a cruising boat and as I type this I wonder if I could face this myself. I work like you in the entertainment industry and my boat kinda justifies the years of sacrifice I put into being what some would call a success. I imagine there’s some additional clarity by the time you read this but please know many of us get it. I’m a sailboat guy who loves your channel and felt every moment of what I just watched like it was my own boat or family suffering. Godspeed and I hope to share an anchorage with you soon.
What are you on about? The man went on a trip with his family to buy a plane and it didn't go the way he would have liked, pretty sure he will live and doesn't need heartfelt condolences about sailboats, lol.
32:30 looks like the boost pump from my Cirrus the other week. Replacement for my little pump is $1500. ended up being bad seals inside it. Morristown is a nice airport, very close to me. My Io-360 ES replacement from AirPower was $76,000 including the installation. I love a 421 but I would pass on that hangar queen.
My take on this so called “deal” is RUN… the seller is desperate and isn’t being straight with you. Never buy anything with metal in the filter unless you plan on rebuilding or replacing the engine.
I am pretty dang sure that the starting method used by the seller is not only incorrect, but freaking dangerous. My twin was full rich, throttle closed, boost pump on and crack throttle, boost pump off and start. I am happy you did not become a bad imitation of Richard Pryor.
Jimmy, you need a better flashlight. I generally don't like chineseum tools, but if you go to horror freight and get "BRAUN 500 Lumen LED Rechargeable Magnetic Handheld Foldable Slim Bar Work Light" you'll be pleasantly surprised with how handy that little bugger can be. (edit:) And you can look at the cost of the road trip as a few thousand bucks to save a couple hundred grand. :)
Jimmy - I restored one of these. Boots recondition $2,000. Annuals - $50,000 be realistic. It’s your family you’re flying around. I operated a C model for nearly 20 years. 😊👍🙏.
My grandfather owned a 414 and 421 at the same time for private use plus a few other twins. Looking at the two they were so similar in looks if you were looking at them from the front at a distance and the easy way to tell was the much larger props on the 421. I believe they were 90” props whereas the 414 had 76” props. He found the 414 to be the actual better plane as it has a better single engine performance. If I’m not mistaken it was capable of almost 20,000 feet on one engine and the 421 was something like almost 14,000. I loved them both in all honesty. Really miss getting to fly with him. Loved his King Air 300 the most though.
@@eagle2019 That and the extremely long nose. But from a distance looking straight at it from the nose the props always got my attention first because they were so big for the size of the airplane.
@@buckmurdock2500 I said I believe. I couldn’t remember at the time I wrote that. The 414 maximum is 74 and minimum is 72. The 421 shows 88 and 90. That comes from MT Propeller USA. So I was off a little.
Once you "prime" the engine you keep the mixture all the way off. Once it fires your increase the mixture. They are flooding it out big time. Once flooded, full throttle and mixture idea cutoff. When it starts throttle to idle and increase the mixture. At least that's the way it works on my TSIO-520-WBs.
The carburetor ain’t carbin the starter ain’t startin battery ain’t battin well the engine that just don’t work either. Yeah you still got a lot of fuel still fuelin on the ground. Sad how owners let aircraft deteriorate. Good stuff as always Jimmy !
Hi Jimmy I recently lost the ability to fly airplanes due to Covid illness and repercussions. Covid took the feeling from my legs and I’m now in a wheelchair. It hurts so bad not to be able to fly airplanes ever again. You give me back a glimpse of what I miss out on your show or RUclips. Thank you so much for your ability to bring aviation back into my life. I live in skilled nursing facility with an illness that most likely will take my life, but I know that I am blessed to have the ability to fly with my family and to share the excitement with you as you put on your RUclips channel segments. I have two 23 foot wingspan military drones, each with incredible motors, and back up motors. I am looking for a a buyer, preferably somebody who can use it for education and help out young pilots to learn about the New World of drones. The funds will be used to help my family who is currently homeless to get back on their feet. I will also be donating some of the money to my local CAP. we all love you and your family. I wish that you and your own will have an amazing life full of love and aviation. Your fan Drone and aviation buff Daniel “WOOKIE” Robinson❤✈️
This will show on my daughters account but was watching this and i worked on all models of Cessnas, 100, 200, 300, 400 and really liked tge 414 and 421 but, those geared engines are great for high altitude and stuff but, if your really determined to get a cabin job a 414 or 340 might be a better fit. One more thing is, of all the time i worked on them i only knew of two people that used them for their personal airplane because of the high cost to maintain so, i cant imagine what it costs now. Airplane parts are expensive which im sure you know. That plane needs a BUNCH of TLC that it hasn't had. Walk away.........
I could barely afford to maintain my Chevy Vega, which I purchased after I gave up on my Ford Pinto because of occasional explosion issues. So I'm convinced that those who buy and maintain airplanes are crazy people. No offense, of course, Jimmy. 😁
The LAST flight found in FlightAware for N845YC From: LEXINGTON, NC TUESDAY 16-APR-2019 04:46PM EDT To: GREENEVILLE, TN TUESDAY 16-APR-2019 05:33PM EDT
To get my car started you have to give it four shots of prime, mixture idle cutoff, hit the starter and when it starts to pop, give it one slow shot of prime and when it lights, bring the mixture up full. Works every time. Maybe it will work with an airplane too.
Jimmy, it’s a 421C; what the hell are you thinking? The overhaul cost on a GTSIO-520 was over $60,000 thirty years ago. To quote an old friend of mine (who had 1,500 hrs in 421s) ‘The only place the remaining engine will get you in an engine out situation is to the crash site’.
The thing that destroys an airframes value is corrosion.. you can get money for mechanical items, however it's not like a car you can still drive on the road...the stress on the airframe makes it inoperable unless you only want to taxi
Jimmy have you been logging all the maintenance work you've done in anticipation of taking the A&P Test?? This 421B would be a great project plane. It would give you experience with a large number of systems you would be tested on. I haven't seen this 421B or reviewed the logbooks. All the information I have is what I've seen on this video. That being said, based on what I've seen, I wouldn't be so quick to walk away from this airplane. As you are well aware the biggest killer of aircraft is corrosion. If this aircraft has been hangared for all or most of its life it most likely does not have corrosion issues. Bring a borescope and check everywhere, in the wings, rudder, elevator, etc.I would do a deeper dive beginning with removing all the inspection panels and checking for corrosion. If there is no corrosion, I'd move on to the engines. Compression, oil filter check, exhaust system inspection, turbo chargers etc. Next the electromechanical landing gear. The goal is to inspect all the big ticket items. $100,000 for this aircraft is not that unreasonable. Just on core values you're probably at $50 to $60k. You can part out the airplane for the rest. There is currently a GTSIO520 RAM overhauled run-out engine, with logbooks for $16,500 that could be your ferry engine in the event the engine making metal is toast. As I said I would do a deep dive into the airframe, engines, etc. and review of the logbooks. Make a detailed list of all the discrepancies and then from there you can make a more informed decision. I've been a Commercial Pilot and Aircraft owner for 35 years and 10,000+ hours. I've owned eight airplanes, a 421C, 401B, Cardinal RG, Piper Archer and several Jet warbirds. The 401B and warbirds were projects. This is going to take a bit of work time and money but in the end you could end up with a really nice 421B that would serve your family well. Don't buy this with anticipation of fixing it up and flipping it for a profit. Not going to happen. Good luck! If there is anything I can help you with give a ring.
"Invertant. May I have the definition please?" "Upside down by accident." "Could you use it in a sentence please?" "If you were directly above him, then how could you see him? Because I was 'invertant'. Bullsh1t!" "Invertant. I-N-V-E-R-T-A-N-T. Invertant." 🤣
Download the FREE Upside App at upside.app.link/jimmysworld to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.
I hope that works for 100LL.
Was thinking the same thing
That thing is a wreck. If it needs a couple of engines, along with all of the other faults you know about, and the ones you haven't found yet, you'll be up to your neck in $450,000 for an aircraft which might be worth $200,000. I hope you walked away from it.
Buy a better one for $200,000 and save half of your expenditure.
As long as they don't keep kicking your purchases out for some reason or another like they keep doing me
Yea he’s an accident waiting to happen
Jimmy - Get one of the small borescope type cameras that connect to your phone! Seriously cheap tool ($20-50) and super useful. Vote this up so Jimmy sees it!
Heck, I'll even toss in a few $$ to buy him one!
So where do I get one ?
When a seller won't negotiate and then says someone else is coming to look at it,,,,🏃🏃🏃🏃🏃as fast as you can.
This advise is not meant for Jimmy. He is, after all the guy that bought the 'Elvis' plane from a crooked auctioneer using the oldest trick in the book; the phantom bidder.
Yep as far as you can, also the confidence the seller shows with that retched in his hand, shows to me he is bluffing.
Also, for engines that have bin running yesterday !!!!, they Shure are NOT running today. Cheers.
If the buyer saw this video, he must have already canceled the trip. 😂
Well Jimmy...l long for the near future...when great aged airplanes can be repurposed into clean electric motors and fuel cells /batteries. So cost prohibited engine replacement can keep these older proven fliers..in the air. ..not rotting on ground due to repair costs due to certified engines pricing and repairs...
Imagine the solar panels on top of your hanger giving you working power, lights and keeping your plane fully charged RTG any time.... 5:18
It's got brand new tyres on it because the old ones would have shown you exactly how long it had been standing...
Needed new one because the old ones soaked up too much fuel.😉
I am starting to get concerned about Jimmy. 17 hour drive and he didn't bring a real flashlight or any basic tools.
I was thinking at least a flashlight. 😂
Had the same thought
I think Jimmy was under the impression the plane was in really good shape and air worthy... I know, when it's used you never assume anything, especially nowadays when your word doesn't mean much to people. Benefit of the doubt.
@@alanbishop332 no he knew it was not flyable, and even if he didn’t when going to look at cars or planes you always bring some basics for an inspection.. especially when driving
Cell phone has light don't need tools when you have AAA
The moral of the story is if you're going to be flying your family at 200mph at 20,000 fleet don't look for a bargain
Amen to that! Also high quality training in a level D sim is a must, train and operate using part 135 standards as a minimum.
@@justusetpecatorOK sure Mr expert pilot
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 lol I wish, did not even stay at a holiday inn last night. But I do have 2000 hours in king air 350 and 3000 hours in C208’s. The Caravan is sweet flying extremely reliable safe do almost everything airplane. Jimmy should look at a Malibu or Navajo both excellent recip airplanes.
@@justusetpecator yes I have over 50,000 hours in my carrier I've flew F15, F16, F22,F35 and 727, 737,747,757,767,777 and A300, A320(every model) A330, A340, A350 and A380 and finally flew a Lancaster bomber at an airshow in 2012 before I retired. I've flown about 50k hours on Microsoft flight sim since then. I'm probably one of the most experienced pilots in the world but I don't like to boast because I'm humble
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Sweet … that is so cool. I don’t see it as a boast, I think you have or had fantastic career. Do you still fly, maybe own
your own plane?
Jimmy, my dad has 5 kids and a wife. He owned an Aztec but felt he needed something larger. So, he landed a deal on a C-421. After owning it for four years, he calculated it cost $975.00 an hour to operate. My dad stated, he could have CHARTERED a LEAR JET for less. In the 1980s.
So my best advice to you is RUN AWAY!!!!!
To lower the hourly cost, all one needs to do is fly more.
Sound advice......RUN JIMMY RUN !!!@@lanceyarwood3132
@@buckmurdock2500 And save maybe 50 $ from the 975$.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 The hourly cost is not as important as one might think. For someone with clients within 2-3 hours flight time, but no local airline service, it makes total sense. Also depends on what your time is worth. If you're billing out at $150 per hour and it takes you 4 hours to drive each way but only 1½ hour to get to the airport and then get to the destination, you end up with substantially more billable hours per day. The "right" aircraft is a very valuable tool for those that have to travel to their customers.
I have bought 8 airplanes, but have looked at dozens (in an attempt to buy). It’s just infuriating how often people will misrepresent the aircraft they are selling. It doesn’t matter that you have to travel hundreds of miles at great expense. They always act surprised when you find out what a hunk of junk they have.
this makes me not want to buy a plane... and my wife to not want a plane lol
I drove 24 hours to purchase a 36' boat. Upon arrival I discovered everything, and I mean EVERYTHING was not as advertised. The seller thought I was attempting to negotiate. I said no, there's not a chance in Hades this is coming home with me and honestly it should not ever be placed on the water again.
It's still better to buy a hole in the water than create a hole in the ground.
I rode from maryland to ft myers with my father in law to buy a boat. We got there and found almost every bit of gelcoat craked, so they must've found the one good spot to take a pic. Looked at it for about 2 minutes and turned around and drove 21 hours back😂😂
If you can't put it on the water you can put it under . Artificial reefs are a thing you know .
What type of 36’ boat were you looking at?
Cool story but needs more dragons and stuff.
As the saying goes "there's no such thing as a good deal in aviation"
Same as in the maritime world,nothing is as expensive as a free boat or plane in this case.
As my uncle, the good doctor, said to me, " If it flies, floats or fucks, rent it, don't buy it".
@@jakleo337 good advice,another is if it’s such a passion,make it pay for itself.
@@jakleo337 If the Bible did not command against it I would certainly agree on the last point. But the boat thing is a bit different. I want to own my boat so I can customize it like I want it. My boat is not "a deal". It's a lifestyle. I have it parked out back on the saltwater canal so I can just step outside on a whim and be in the ocean in 10 minutes. Way different than an aircraft. But yes, high maintenance nonetheless.
It's cheaper to rent@@jakleo337
Can you imagine attempting a restart in-flight! That thing looks like a future episode for Broncolirio
Actually restarts in-flight were pretty easy, especially if you had unfeathering accumulators. Mixture - Idle Cutoff, Throttle - Open, Propeller - Unfeather, Mixture - advance slowly. If there were no mechanical problems she would light off pretty quickly.
@@eagle2019 nice thanks for letting us know Eagle, that's a good sign. is she still 4-sale?
and Dan Gryder
What You Said ! (Or pilot debrief). I'm glad Jimmy has Darn Good Sense ! He makes out like He doesn't but He's one of the Smartest Guys I've run across
They could give it to you with a bag full of money in it and it still wouldn’t be a deal! Run Jimmy Run!
That old fella was like Sargent Shultz from Hogans Hero’s
I know nothing about
lol.
I wouldn’t but a lawnmower from that guy.
The ABS altitude is a radar altimeter! The first clue is the DH light. You set the Radar Altimeter to the DH of the approach and that light goes on and a tone is generated in your headset when you reach DH.
Thank you, I was about to google it.
The old Sperry RA-215 Radar Altimeter. A $450 dollar value!
ABS stands for Absolute Altitude….also known as AGL.
I'm not a pilot nor an A&P, but allow me to channel Monty Python and say... "run away! run away!"
Seems to be a fairly common practice to prime radial engines until fuel starts to flow out onto the ground, don't remember seeing that technique with other engines.
After the de-gloving talk, Silas will never again wear a watch. But yeah, something like a watch or bracelet can de-glove a hand.
After instructing in all the twin Cessnas, I always recommend starting the left engine first. That is because the battery cable to the left starter is very short! Yes, they are persnickity to start, but each of the GTSIO engines has its own mind. VG kit is good for takeoffs, but don't add the extra weight. That way you will have better engine out controllability on takeoff. This is equipped with boots and hot props, but NOT certified for flight into known icing. The spoiler STC is always a nice addition to the CE-421.
And I have always instructed starting the starboard engine first. For two reasons, 1., if the battery is not strong enough to start the starboard engine first, then it should be charged or replaced while on the ground. You don't want a low battery being charged in the air. Good way to have an inflight fire. 2., The cabin entrance is on the port side. If the port engine is started first and a fire erupts, crew and passengers will have to disembark into flames. If you start the starboard engine first and a fire erupts you can exit the aircraft without endangering the passengers and crew. If you start the port engine second and a fire erupts, then with the starboard engine already running, you can use it to power up and taxi the aircraft forward and out of the flames allowing the passengers and crew to disembark safely. I have personally seen a pilot start the port engine first, over prime it like in this video, and the large puddle of fuel catch fire! Luckily a quick lineman grabbed a fire extinguisher and put out the flames. The paint was burned off the bottom of the wing and there was other fire related damage as well. The passengers exited, frightened, but no worse for the wear.
I THINK ITS TIME TO RABBIT UP,JIMMY, LIKE THE MAN SAID "SOMEONE ELSE WAS COMMING,SOOOO LEDEM HAVEIT😅
you need a gauge that tells you how much gas is on the ground
😂😂😂😂😅
They call that gauge... sandles!
they could have put a bucket to catch it and could have put it back in to show it to the next guy that was on his way to look at it because they sure was not fixing anything
Before going to OCS in the Army and being commissioned in the Field Artillery, I was a aircraft electrician. As a rotary wing mechanic, we had the one guy I went to school with who managed to set off both squib bottles (fire suppression) on a UH-60 Blackhawk. Another graduate of Ft. Eustis in my class was asked to never turn wrenches on an aircraft again and was re-assigned as a unit clerk. Oh to be young again and enjoy the follies of youth and the misfortunes of others.
AS I read your post I hadda smile because my military days (1966 thru 1973) was kinda similar. Enlisted and did my Basic & AIT at Ft. Lewis Wa. as 11B10 (infantry), 1968 as a SPC4 applied for and attended NCO academy. Came out with E5, immediately applied for and attended OCS. Commissioned 2nd Lt in 1969. Went to Ft. Sill for branch and became a Field Artillery Officer. Likely as you as a JO I was mess Officer, motor pool Officer, Safety Officer,, you know, the have a butter bar run the gamet of jobs, it's how a 'shave tail' Lt learns what the jobs are and how to work with your NCO's. 1973 I was a 1st Lt XO for Battery A, 2nd Btn 218th Arty but had enough. Resigned my commission June of that year and called my military career done.Thank you for YOUR service TexasGrandDad 🙂
Jimmy, what you're missing is that you're trying to get an aircraft airworthy that if it were manufactured today would cost well over 1.8 million. The only other similar Piston Twin aircraft in production today are the Beechcraft Baron and Technam 2012. The Technam 2012 which is the only cabin class Piston Twin in production is $2.5 million. The maintenance costs for the Baron and the Technam are calculated based on the costs of manufacture. The 421 is a big complex aircraft just like the Baron and Technam, which by the way neither are pressurized. The market for Twin Cessna's is very small due to the maintenance costs and availability of parts. You cannot look to recover the costs of what it will take to get this 421B airworthy. Doesn't happen that way. Remember this is a 51 year old aircraft that has been sitting for some time with deferred maintenance. . There is currently a RUclips video of an owner that put in $250,000 of Garmin upgrades into his 414A. There is no way he will ever recover those costs when he goes to sell. The value of the 421B you are looking at is based on core value if you were to sell it for salvage. In my estimate the $100,000 price the owner is looking for is pretty close to core value if you were to part it out.
Additionally the cost of TurboProp Single Engine aircraft is less than a Technam 2012 so potential buyers are more likely to purchase a Turboprop with higher reliability PT6's and better performance which are easily maintained by service centers all over the world. Piston Twins are a dying breed with the exception of smaller ones used for ME training. If you're going to buy a cabin class piston twin you're going to have to realize that you're not going to make money reselling it and those of us that still have them keep them because we love them....
I don't think this is lost on him. The point is, even a solid airframe can be mechanically totalled because it makes more sense to pay twice the money for a sorted one than to buy one that needs work. It's not that the projects are necessarily overvalued - its that the good ones are undervalued.
@@prodigalpilot That's all well and good if you have "twice the money" burning a hole in your pocket. If $100k is your budget then that's it.
@@eagle2019help me to understand your point. Whether an airplane is sorted and $200k, or half that with 100k in required repairs, what is the difference? Either way, 100k is not going to cut it. I totally see your point if the issues are cosmetic but aircraft is airworthy - in which case a person can slowly improve while flying. But in this case, 100k won't cut it either way.
@@prodigalpilot The $100k airplane may not need $100k in repairs immediately to be airworthy. To get this airplane back in the air may require a minimal number of repairs. Looks like a fuel pump and maybe a couple of other things. Everything else can be repaired over time and be paid for over time. $100k may be enough. If the engine is making metal, there is no requirement to buy a new engine or get it overhauled. Many companies buy used engines at a much lower cost. This is especially true in the jet and turbo prop world. They can buy a mid-time engine for way less than $100k. There are numerous ways of cutting cost when on a budget. Flight schools and charter operators are famous for this.
@@eagle2019 I don't disagree. I think my last point is i would be uncomfortable purchasing any plane that i do not also have liquidity enough to resolve any issue that may come up. Therefore, my position would remain "if all you have is 100k to spend, then you can't afford a cabin class twin" - good day! To be clear - by my definition - i certainly can't afford a cabin class twin!
That seller is out of his mind. After just reading the logs you could have called it good and just turned the trip into a better family outing
seller expects good cashout for something that needs maybe and additional 200k dollars pouring into it to make it airworthy. probably hes never going to sell it which than the plane ends up as sparedonor or scrap either way i agree with you that old man has lost its mind thinking the money he poured in he could somehow get it back by some iditot buying it from him for 100k
PLUS it was out of annual too, I believe. Lord knows what that would bring to light...$$$$$@@Mastercluster
i don't believe this was the seller. i think he just works for the seller.
Old twin aircraft. Needs two new engines... Yikes.
And, yes, metal in the oil always is a sign of impending doom on any engine. Don't fool yourself.
I mean I know the project is expensive but damn that guy goes into detail and I love building plane videos from the scratch .
I have a relative that has a 340 for sale for 125k. Meticulously maintained for charter use. Really nice plane. He replaced the engines or engine within the last couple years
I have a 76'340A, Very low time Ram Engines, it breaks my heart the 340 is not valued near as highly as a Baron. The 340 is a great flying airplane, and has great room in it for a entry level cabin class twin.
Where is it listed at?
Airline guy looking.
@@47colton controller N5446G
@@Easterwood67 thanks
All right, come on, give up the deets on this 340 already.
Your wife is a very understanding person. I hope that you still have enough credit remaining with her to make the 17 hour return trip.
She got Upside :)
Jimmy, look up the N421KC report, if you can’t get engine started in 6-7 blades,
by continuing to try to start the GTSO, you will destroy the starter drive, that’s what happened to this aircraft, the guy who bought it from Fla for $110K could not understand how to start and operate a cabin class twin, it was a sad story, but luckily they walked away from death that day, actually flew this airplane once, and warned the owner to never fly it again until he replaces the engines, and get some emergency training. He had never flown in a pressurized airplane before, I have a far amount of time in all 421s , they are wonderful airplanes and require constant feeding to properly and safely,Maintain and operate., great videos
I say, "Walk, Walk, Walk away from this bad day and don't look back, Jack!" For what that 421 will end up costing you to get airworthy and keep it that way, you could buy a lot of airlines tickets for you and your wife--FIRST CLASS, and coach for the kids and still have enough cash to put fuel in the Lancair or 310. I will say, however, that the 421 travels and travails would make for some great video content. So, there is that to consider. I love t!he Jimmys World. You make me laugh and miss those GA days that were such an important part of my early aviation career. God bless you and your sweet family, Jimmy
I agree on what GA use to be. Getting to regulated to even enjoy a simple Saturday Hamburger Flight.
but before you totally bail.... haller at those boys over at JR AVATION for like yea.... see how much it actually TOOK WITH THEIR $$$ tossed into it!!! :) LOL MMMMMUUUAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA
just a thought
Learned the $hard$ way on restoring my 1966 Austin Healey 3000 BJ 8. A fool and his gold are soon parted. Shoulda been suspicious when the odometer only showed 30K miles but it was sitting in a field with a tree growing up through the rotted out rag top and holes in the floor boards!! Ha Ha!
Who was it that sang...."Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.....??"
Good luck, Jimmy!!
know when to walk away and know when to run ...
The Gambler, Kenny Rodgers.
Jimmy - Ya don't have to have all those motors, & sht like that! '61, boarded Lan Chile DC-6 in Panama, but landed in single engine plane on Threshold of Miami, after losing all but #1 in fireballs over Caribbean! After roll-out, she bumped up on end of runway, & Capt said, "Welcome to Miami"! Should I check on status of plane today, so you might get 'er cheap?
Should have used a flooded start once the fuel started pouring out. Open the throttle, close the mixture, reverse when it fires.
Yep. Most people close a throttle when an engine of any kind floods out. The best restart is always pedal to the floor and hold without extra pumping. Maximize air flow and minimize fuel.
where would fuel pour out from ? ? ?
@@buckmurdock2500 I am not a mechanic and I've only had a twin cessna about 25 years. There is an overflow tube, not sure if it is from the spider or where exactly it comes from, but there is a tube, and you can see it in the video.
@@philiproesel7885 The fuel comes out of the manifold drains. There is one on each engine.
@@eagle2019 Thank you! I was looking it up. Mike Bush always has an answer, or Jimmy Garland. One of them will usually
set me straight.
I’m with ya. That fuel running out of there is scary.
You got Circle K all over Canada as well.... Im not an aviation or airframe mechanic but my truck mechanic side says fuel pouring out is not normal....
The death null on this deal for me is this… you want to sell it on at some point in the future. You already have a motor that’s nearly timed out, Which assuming it’s actually ok will make it hard to sell in the future, when it’s even closer to timed out if not fully timed out. Someone, somewhere, sometime is going to be on the hook for that 100+g engine. Ain’t no getting away from that, and until that pill gets swallowed the value of the plane will be adversely effected
Im a cabin class twin Cessna insurance instructor. 421B the B is for best right?!?! 😂
In all seriousness that bird is a unique beast. Besides the obvious GTSIO engine items… you’d want to inspect the trunions, probably have your brake master cylinders overhauled, nose gear linkage, trim rod, door seals, and windows. I would switch to Michelin tires and keep 10 pounds more in the mains than the book says (85psi).
I personally think the 340 is the best of them all. Everyone always want a 414A because it has the cabin of a 421 and a 4ft longer “wet” wing. The 340 has a smaller cabin but the same engines as 414 and same fuel system as the bird your looking at in this video. The way I describe to my students is 421 is a millionaires plane, 414 is a passengers plane, and 340 is a pilots plane. If you can squeeze the friends and family in the smaller 340 cabin you’ll appreciate the performance of that plane.
On further reflection, I have come to believe that anyone who owns a plane is considered to be filthy rich by anybody else in the world, especially those who SERVICE those planes. The prices you mention for parts and labor are insane unless you are filthy rich. Not just rich, but...filthy rich.
And, the built in laws that require expensive "Annuals" and "AD's" just keep the liquid gold flowing in the fuel lines. Kinda like the hearing aid world where I come from. Of course, the devices are much smaller, but the process is much the same. $5 grand for a small device that is still simply a receiver and an amplifier.
You got a lot of fuel over here…”yeah, that’s normal” - GULP
It’s interesting seeing the owners keeping their mouth shut knowing all the problems it has as they watch and see if you figure it out. Like dad used to say “people are funny”.
Most people look at airplanes have no intention of buying. Pretty much the case here. I call that "funny""
You read my mind. In fact, I notice this happens in most of Jimmy's (and many of us in our normal lives) in such 'potential buyer' situations. At best it's 'shady'. I can just hear the conversation the next day: Jimmy "I noticed the 'metal in the screen'" entry". Owner "Oh, you caught that did you?".
Oh yea, the old “I’ve got a couple more guys looking at it” line. Play hardball, Jimmy. It’s worth 75, no more. Tell him, “no worries, I’ll let the couple more guys buy it” and walk away. Call his bluff.
I have found if you’re dealing with a reputable person, and they say other people are coming to look at it there very well may be.
@@donaldwatson554 This stupid old man isn't reputable lied about all the problems and give the ol "it started fine yesterday" dosn't even seem like he's got a clue how to start he thing. Complete joker
at 44:38 I was thinking "walk away now"!
The stories didn't even match logs or evidence either. Spider webbs and they couldn't start it to go with the story that they run the engines so often. The flight hours over the last 7 years don't match their usage story either.
It seems with the metal they knew the engine was bad and procrastinated fixing it for lack of money and now they're ditching it.
I flew and oversaw maintenance on a 421B. When they are in great shape and the engine, prop and heater hours are good plus its ADs current and the avionics are good, it MIGHT be a good plane. That one engine has too much time. These plane are best maintained when one pilot is doing most of the flying. The engines require very exact power management. Run away from this bird and take the family to dinner!
The classic line.. "I gotta couple of more guys coming to look at it"
Biting my tongue! Wanting to yell STOP ! .... FLOODING THIS!! PUDDLES NOT GOOD!!! DANG!😆
The fuel was pouring out of it because you had the mixtures full rich! You're supposed to prime it and then pull the mixtures to idle cutoff. As you crank it, when she lights off you move the mixtures to full rich. You flooded the engines and the fuel was pouring out of the manifold drains. That was a fire waiting to happen. Were there no checklists on board?? I have 4,000 hours in 300 and 400 series Twin Cessna's.
Exactly what I was thinking, I’d be pissed some idiot tried to start my airplane that had no clue what he’s doing!!
My first thought about the oil shavings in the filter was, “Looks like somebody’s been backlashing this propeller gears.” The boss used to beat it in our heads to plan way ahead for descents in the 421. Always do a long, cruise descent.
Maybe the misplaced nut is one off a 737 max plug door?
Many years ago I was flying a corp. pressurized Baron...parked next to me in the hanger was a Corp. 421 golden eagle. Went around the patch with him a couple of times....nice bird....Those TGIO 520s can be fairly quiet..at a cost. My friend had one engine failure on TO....NO problem saving the bird.....but the engines at the time, to overhall ,was extreme!!! I love CessnasI got my multi in a beautiful 310 Q model years ago.
You made the right decsion to walk away from that bird. The fuel leaks are a big concern. Remember the 421 has bladders, BIG $$$ The panel for the most part is very dated and needs upgrading. The other squawks you mentioned are big $$. Plus you hadn't even had a mechanic do a prepurchase on it. If they gave that airplane to you, you could easily invert more money then what it's maket value is, just to bring it up to something safe you'd want to fly your family in. I have considerable time in 421's, and they do a nice job, but you better have some deep pockets to stay on top of the maintenance. If you want a cabin class twin, I'd be looking at Cessna 340's. Much less to operate and maintain then a 421.
C 421 & 340... I have flown ...what worked the best is almost flood the engine, you will see some fuel on the ground under the engine draining... then lean it.... starter on till it starts then slowy add mixture...also flying it plan your desent so you slowy take power out ,since they are very sensitive if not mistaken is 1 inch every minute ...very nice machine to fly ...
There was a movie that came out in '94 that starred Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels that Jimmy needs to view. For 125K, there are a lot of RV's (especially in Fla) that would fully meet his needs.And Jimmy might even tow Elvis's discards.
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. You can't do a proper inspection with a cell phone flashlight app! You're a pilot. You should ALWAYS carry a good rechargeable pocket flashlight, and on inspection trips like this, a telescoping inspection mirror.
and one of those SHAKEY SHAKEY SHAKEY gives you 2 mins of light ONES TOO!!!! just saying...... BUT... if the FONE is IN RECORD MODE for him to send the videos to the mekinik for final GO FOR IT or RUN FROM IT decideing... well yea... then a FLASHLIGHT ain't gunna get the VIDEO griz needs for the ''fixin'' to come? or wordage to that effect
I really think this video was for entertainment purposes. I think he is much smarter than people give him credit for. I own a 421C and have committed to getting it to be my little airliner. It will take a while, but I'm well on my way.
Could be both engines. Just sitting around that long is arguably worse than a high time engine run regularly.
There is no doubt
Occasional starts can be even worse if they didn't give them a chance to heat up. Water is one of the two main products of combustion and when it first starts you get condensation in the cylinders and exhaust. If you shut it off before the condensation has been boiled off, well we all know what water and steel makes...
@@brandyballoon but everyone knows tons of plane owners who let their craft sit for long periods
Jimmy, I took some FOD in the right engine on our Citation Ultra. Estimate right now is north of $800,000. Everything is relative
*Oh boy,* here we go again...
What could possibly go wrong 😂😂😂
I never start them in full rich. Once I have it primed, I crank until I get it to start then throw the mixture lever forward.
Exactly right!!! Procedure is to Prime then put the Mixtures to Idle Cut-Off. When the engine lights off, push mixture to full rich. The fuel pouring out of the manifold drains was because the mixtures were full rich!!
Hey Jimmy...SO what happened in the end? Will there be a part 2 to this airplane? Just asking. Thank you for taking us with you on these many adventures.
“Man I am glad I am not that guy” 😂 love it lol. Nothing wrong with a little friendly ribbing 🙂
Im with you on that decision. Its got a lot going for it since its been stored in a hangar. But offer the 75K and see where that goes. If he has others coming to look at it he might come around to your offer if they all pass on it. Other than that. Know when to walk. Its easy to get caught up in the excitement and make an impulse purchase. Loved this video.
"...get caught up in the excitement and make an impulse purchase..." like he did on the Elvis jet.
zactly...@@ralph5476
Make sure that you check the pressurization. Best way is to see how high that you can get before the cabin altitude hits 10,000 ft.
This video should be titled "how to not start a GTSIO-520". Pretty well know and established procedures for starting them, and waiting for fuel to pore out is not one of them...
A friend was flying a 402c freighter that I used to fly. I trained him how to start it. I warned him not to overprime the engine due to the possibility of hydraulic lock damaging a piston rod. Long story short, he broke a rod and destroyed the crank case. If you have to use a lot of prime to get it to start, either you are doing something wrong or the engine needs attention. In either case, dont over prime these engines.
Hey Jimmy , I stopped at timestamp 34:36, and thought, “Walk Away, walk away”. I’m not an A/P and i see too many bad things!!! Love the channel.
I was hoping we'd get to see Jimmy flying on this episode.... guess we'll just have to wait until you find the right plane.
I was hoping we'd at least hear what his offer was and the answer.
I guess the inference to make is his offer was too low for the owner, so "NO SALE" was rung up.
He asked the guy if he would take 75k, and that old short guy said "no". If it were me, I would say, "then would you take 50k"? Then I would round up the family and head back home. And those geared engines have some quirks to them as well, which makes it even more expensive if not handled properly, jmho. @@KutWrite
@@gotchagoing4905: Yeah, but cutting out immediately is not good for the view-count!
I say that as practicality, not as a criticism. I like Jimmy's channel, but do see some method to what I first thought was madness.
He's quite smart! He got me to watch, though I'd have bet it was "no sale."
Plus, I await the next video to see what his "Final Answer." (remember "Who... Millionaire?"
He (Jimmy) is very smart and very savvy. Now we have to wait until next week to see how that trip actually ended. I have never seen an engine pump out expensive 100LL on the ground while trying to start it up. That had me on the edge of my chair.I've taken fuel out of my ship to make c-rats coffee using a c-rats can and a handful of sand but that was jp-4. And that almost timed out engine I think that would be the actual deal killer,imho.@@KutWrite
Time to put your track shoes on Jimmy--lace them up real tight !!!
"if it's too good to be true, it probably is!"
My brother once purchased property with the contingency that if he had a well drilled there would be good water. If the well was good no problem, he would have had to put one in anyways and if not, he was only out the cost of the well but avoided the bigger expense of a unusable land purchase. The risk was minimal knowing surrounding properties had good wells. Meet the $100k purchase price dependent on the results of an annual inspection, offer too pay for half. If no insurmountable problems found you purchased the plane discounted by half the annual cost and the uncertainty of hidden problems removed. You would be able to calculate accurate restoration costs based and the inspection what it would take to safely ferry the plane home. If bad things were found consider money spent on the annual inspection the cost of avoiding a money pit and living longer.
Mike Busch has a webinar on this touchy subject. The only trouble is it's contingent on the plane being flyable to a nearby and impartial AP for the annual or pre-buy inspection.
Now I’m no Air plane pilot or aircraft mechanic but this deal looks like someone trying to sell you a polished turd Jimmy. I deal in new and used Appliances and this is exactly what I dealt with before just on a smaller scale, the owner needs to come way off on his price and the only person I would even see getting any value out of that plane is someone who has one already that has structural damage and a ton of good parts to swap.
Thanks for another great video and I forgot to hit up your gas pump on my way thru Macon at Buckees but will do so later on this year!
Hey Jimmy, my daughter and I went by pump 226 at Buckys in Macon. Someone took your note and it’s gone. Thanks for the treasure hunt.
oh no!! someone must have seen this video...
@@therealjimmysworld4 sure!!!
I work on 402Cs a lot, I know different engine and non pressurized, but a lot of what I saw concerns me... Unless he lowers his asking price your better off walking from this one.
Oh man I’m so sorry. I can’t say I’ve been in this exact situation but I’ve been plenty close. It’s hard to convey the loss to anyone who doesn’t own a cruising boat and as I type this I wonder if I could face this myself. I work like you in the entertainment industry and my boat kinda justifies the years of sacrifice I put into being what some would call a success. I imagine there’s some additional clarity by the time you read this but please know many of us get it. I’m a sailboat guy who loves your channel and felt every moment of what I just watched like it was my own boat or family suffering. Godspeed and I hope to share an anchorage with you soon.
What are you on about? The man went on a trip with his family to buy a plane and it didn't go the way he would have liked, pretty sure he will live and doesn't need heartfelt condolences about sailboats, lol.
@@sukhoifockewulf lol I replied to the wrong video.. Ha thanks for letting me know..
@@michaelconner7149 np, haha.
Save your time and money. Keep saving the 310.
32:30 looks like the boost pump from my Cirrus the other week. Replacement for my little pump is $1500. ended up being bad seals inside it. Morristown is a nice airport, very close to me. My Io-360 ES replacement from AirPower was $76,000 including the installation. I love a 421 but I would pass on that hangar queen.
Hmm why am I dizzy…I’m pulled to my recliner…my eyes focus on the screen…,YES…it’s Jimmy’s World!
Since this trip was in December I can’t wait to see how this all came out. I absolutely love your videos.
Band by the name of REHAB has a song called “just walk away”
Sadly so many just like this one scattered across the country.
My take on this so called “deal” is RUN… the seller is desperate and isn’t being straight with you. Never buy anything with metal in the filter unless you plan on rebuilding or replacing the engine.
I am pretty dang sure that the starting method used by the seller is not only incorrect, but freaking dangerous. My twin was full rich, throttle closed, boost pump on and crack throttle, boost pump off and start. I am happy you did not become a bad imitation of Richard Pryor.
Jimmy, you need a better flashlight. I generally don't like chineseum tools, but if you go to horror freight and get "BRAUN 500 Lumen LED Rechargeable Magnetic Handheld Foldable Slim Bar Work Light" you'll be pleasantly surprised with how handy that little bugger can be. (edit:) And you can look at the cost of the road trip as a few thousand bucks to save a couple hundred grand. :)
I love those little guys. I think I am up to 4 now.
Jimmy - I restored one of these. Boots recondition $2,000. Annuals - $50,000 be realistic. It’s your family you’re flying around. I operated a C model for nearly 20 years. 😊👍🙏.
My grandfather owned a 414 and 421 at the same time for private use plus a few other twins. Looking at the two they were so similar in looks if you were looking at them from the front at a distance and the easy way to tell was the much larger props on the 421. I believe they were 90” props whereas the 414 had 76” props. He found the 414 to be the actual better plane as it has a better single engine performance. If I’m not mistaken it was capable of almost 20,000 feet on one engine and the 421 was something like almost 14,000. I loved them both in all honesty. Really miss getting to fly with him. Loved his King Air 300 the most though.
The easiest way to tell a 414 from a 421 is the hump on the top front of the engine cowling for the gearing on the 421
@@eagle2019 That and the extremely long nose. But from a distance looking straight at it from the nose the props always got my attention first because they were so big for the size of the airplane.
The 400 twin Cessna's other than the 421 and 411 have 81" propellers. 76" propeller is something you'd find on a Cessna 172.
@@buckmurdock2500 I said I believe. I couldn’t remember at the time I wrote that. The 414 maximum is 74 and minimum is 72. The 421 shows 88 and 90.
That comes from MT Propeller USA. So I was off a little.
Your Nav/Com 1 connects to the Sandel Electronic HSI.
Once you "prime" the engine you keep the mixture all the way off. Once it fires your increase the mixture. They are flooding it out big time. Once flooded, full throttle and mixture idea cutoff. When it starts throttle to idle and increase the mixture. At least that's the way it works on my TSIO-520-WBs.
Didn't know you were up here at KMOR, Jimmy. That's right up the road from me.
your wife is amazing to keep such a positive attitude. I would love to more about how you fund this adventure.
He explained it already a few years ago. He basically sold his businesses.
For the startup procedure we primed our DC3 until it pissed fuel. We also had ground crew with fire bottles.
Did you ever think about looking up the POH online quickly and figuring out the real starting procedure?
41:12 to 41:53 Ratchet twirling, That's the deal breaker right there!
I don't have a preflight bag, but I do have a wing locker that I put everything in I need for a preflight. Does that count?
The carburetor ain’t carbin the starter ain’t startin battery ain’t battin well the engine that just don’t work either. Yeah you still got a lot of fuel still fuelin on the ground. Sad how owners let aircraft deteriorate. Good stuff as always Jimmy !
The seller should grab the money at 75k and be darn happy to get it because 75k for that thing is still a high offer.
You can wrap some electrical tape around the screwdriver bit or even use a paper towel to keep it inside the socket.
Hi Jimmy I recently lost the ability to fly airplanes due to Covid illness and repercussions. Covid took the feeling from my legs and I’m now in a wheelchair. It hurts so bad not to be able to fly airplanes ever again. You give me back a glimpse of what I miss out on your show or RUclips. Thank you so much for your ability to bring aviation back into my life. I live in skilled nursing facility with an illness that most likely will take my life, but I know that I am blessed to have the ability to fly with my family and to share the excitement with you as you put on your RUclips channel segments. I have two 23 foot wingspan military drones, each with incredible motors, and back up motors. I am looking for a a buyer, preferably somebody who can use it for education and help out young pilots to learn about the New World of drones. The funds will be used to help my family who is currently homeless to get back on their feet. I will also be donating some of the money to my local CAP. we all love you and your family. I wish that you and your own will have an amazing life full of love and aviation.
Your fan Drone and aviation buff
Daniel “WOOKIE” Robinson❤✈️
This will show on my daughters account but was watching this and i worked on all models of Cessnas, 100, 200, 300, 400 and really liked tge 414 and 421 but, those geared engines are great for high altitude and stuff but, if your really determined to get a cabin job a 414 or 340 might be a better fit.
One more thing is, of all the time i worked on them i only knew of two people that used them for their personal airplane because of the high cost to maintain so, i cant imagine what it costs now. Airplane parts are expensive which im sure you know. That plane needs a BUNCH of TLC that it hasn't had. Walk away.........
Learning loads from you Jimmy, getting ready to splurge!
Do it!
I could barely afford to maintain my Chevy Vega, which I purchased after I gave up on my Ford Pinto because of occasional explosion issues. So I'm convinced that those who buy and maintain airplanes are crazy people. No offense, of course, Jimmy. 😁
Whoa! U have a mini me Jimmy! Your oldest looks exactly like you. 👋👍
The LAST flight found in FlightAware for N845YC
From:
LEXINGTON, NC TUESDAY 16-APR-2019 04:46PM EDT
To:
GREENEVILLE, TN TUESDAY 16-APR-2019 05:33PM EDT
Grounded for a reason.
To get my car started you have to give it four shots of prime, mixture idle cutoff, hit the starter and when it starts to pop, give it one slow shot of prime and when it lights, bring the mixture up full. Works every time. Maybe it will work with an airplane too.
nice UK wildcats hat!
Jimmy, it’s a 421C; what the hell are you thinking? The overhaul cost on a GTSIO-520 was over $60,000 thirty years ago. To quote an old friend of mine (who had 1,500 hrs in 421s) ‘The only place the remaining engine will get you in an engine out situation is to the crash site’.
It's an early '70's 421B; a 421C is much better airplane and they command a much higher price.
Remember who you intended passengers will be. Maybe safer is better than a "good" deal
The thing that destroys an airframes value is corrosion.. you can get money for mechanical items, however it's not like a car you can still drive on the road...the stress on the airframe makes it inoperable unless you only want to taxi
Jimmy have you been logging all the maintenance work you've done in anticipation of taking the A&P Test?? This 421B would be a great project plane. It would give you experience with a large number of systems you would be tested on. I haven't seen this 421B or reviewed the logbooks. All the information I have is what I've seen on this video. That being said, based on what I've seen, I wouldn't be so quick to walk away from this airplane. As you are well aware the biggest killer of aircraft is corrosion. If this aircraft has been hangared for all or most of its life it most likely does not have corrosion issues. Bring a borescope and check everywhere, in the wings, rudder, elevator, etc.I would do a deeper dive beginning with removing all the inspection panels and checking for corrosion. If there is no corrosion, I'd move on to the engines. Compression, oil filter check, exhaust system inspection, turbo chargers etc. Next the electromechanical landing gear. The goal is to inspect all the big ticket items. $100,000 for this aircraft is not that unreasonable. Just on core values you're probably at $50 to $60k. You can part out the airplane for the rest. There is currently a GTSIO520 RAM overhauled run-out engine, with logbooks for $16,500 that could be your ferry engine in the event the engine making metal is toast. As I said I would do a deep dive into the airframe, engines, etc. and review of the logbooks. Make a detailed list of all the discrepancies and then from there you can make a more informed decision. I've been a Commercial Pilot and Aircraft owner for 35 years and 10,000+ hours. I've owned eight airplanes, a 421C, 401B, Cardinal RG, Piper Archer and several Jet warbirds. The 401B and warbirds were projects. This is going to take a bit of work time and money but in the end you could end up with a really nice 421B that would serve your family well. Don't buy this with anticipation of fixing it up and flipping it for a profit. Not going to happen. Good luck! If there is anything I can help you with give a ring.
"Invertant. May I have the definition please?"
"Upside down by accident."
"Could you use it in a sentence please?"
"If you were directly above him, then how could you see him? Because I was 'invertant'. Bullsh1t!"
"Invertant. I-N-V-E-R-T-A-N-T. Invertant." 🤣
There's always "other guys" coming to look at it..
Hi Jimmy and family ....you guys are awesome....we always watch and learn so much from you Jimmy may peace be upon you 😊