Yeah he does not look happy with the topic lol. Ash is a true classic Runescape fan, not whatever OSRS has become over the past decade. Love that he's still there though. When (if) he leaves I think it's highly likely the game takes an even bigger turn for the worse.
I hope tick manipulation doesn't seep into too much content. I get that I'll never attempt the Inferno, but the majority of the game probably shouldn't need it.
A popular quote from some game Dev was that "Player's if given the chance will optimize the fun out of a game." I feel like Jagex has just leaned in on the certain player type that enjoys doing these kinds of things and has in turn alienated the people who don't want to give the time of day to learn techniques that don't feel like genuine mechanics and more manipulation.
I started playing recently (I was partying when it was first popular), I love the world and role playing games in general. I wander about exploring in my silly outfit and chatting to people but 90% of players seem to be running around wearing the same white hooded outfit, doing the same handful of tasks as fast as possible and saying nothing. It looks like they are at work. I thought it was supposed to be social and fun. I know there are supposed to be lots of bots but it is hard to tell who is even real.
@@ericconnor8419 based non-efficient player. I hate how everyone is always wearing graceful and I think it’s ugly so I literally don’t wear it. I wanna wear what I wanna wear, the run energy almost never affects me anyways
One thing: Prayer flicking in combat was not possible before the pre-piety era (summer 2007). Changing a prayer would cause the character to stop attacking, meaning you'd also need to click the thing you were fighting after changing a prayer. There was no left-click option for higher level creatures/players either.
Cool video man. I've played osrs since day 1 launch. Only just reached base 80's. Never been interested in tick manipulation or anything meta really. For me I'll prioritise the most social method over anything in game. Places like MLM are my favourite. Afk, easy xp, and on the top level, fairly social. I see the same people for weeks at a time, made good friends with people there and gone onto boss or minigame with them. I could never tick manipulate a granite block on my own for hours. You never get the classic runescape experience.
@@Renblade Good luck bro. It's the best playstyle. You find yourself doing things you always felt too anxious to try on your own. One of my best memories was going to do KBD for the first time with 2 other players, also their first time. We met mining shooting stars. We decided none of us would leave until we all had the KBD head for our slayer helmets. us 3 did the same a few months back for the KQ head.
@@kennwan9917 I've played for a little over 20 years and I realize that i wasted 50% of that playtime trying for high daily xp gain. That doesn't mean anything though! to have all these experiences of more niche activities that are more social,I bet that's more fun. I guess it's also less known and a bit nerve-wracking because people are out chasing 99s instead. i beat Zezima for xpgain/week a single time in my life in 2012. Instead of making any friends :D
@@AdamOwenBrowning It made sense from the start, people having to go through the same skills and quests they'd already conquered as a kid, on top of socials being more active now for tips and tricks, everyone seems to know the meta. But these types of gamers exists in every game universe nowadays. I doubt it has much to do with saving time, as I'm pretty sure you've got to be unemployed to face the idea of 2 tick grinding. I could never after a long day at work. But these people burn out easily, they probably make the least progress spread out over a few years, because I bet half of that is spent burnt out bank standing. Besides, when you make it to end game, You want people to enjoy the content with. If you spent years with entity hider on and telling kids to "hop" then you'll have all the stats and none of the friends.
Long term it is not healthy for the game, I think the new skill should be specifically designed around avoiding tick manipulation methods. It causes stress on hands/joints and isn't enjoyable. My favorite boss in the game is The Hunllef, because it requires you to watch for which prayer to switch to, avoid certain tiles on the ground, keep track of your weapon style and navigate around the room. It isn't a boss where I have to eat at the same exact tick I get hit to heal through damage, which isn't intuitive at all.
Even the sweatiest methods like barblore can be done without too much stress on your hands, since you're not just spam clicking and tensing up just results in worse clicks and should be avoided. Although obviously if you do anything intense for 5 hours in a row you'll feel it in your joints, but that's a matter of not taking breaks rather than the method itself.
You can just not do it though. You just don't have to tick manipulate to max skilling. Its like me saying the GE shouldn't exist because i think ironman is more fun
@@papabaddad Oh yeah absolutely, if you don't find tick manipulation fun or rewarding you shouldn't do it unless you have a very limited amount of time to play and want diary reqs in a reasonable amount of time. But it's also incorrect to say that it has to cause physical strain.
@@papabaddad Not really because if everybody else is playing like a sweat then PKing becomes unviable and gathering worthless because of inflation. If people are hammering one technique for maximum 'efficiency' the role playing and game part get lost. What is the point of growing crops if they sell for nothing because people are hitting the same boss ten times in a row and picking up 1000s of expensive herbs.
@@ericconnor8419not so much an issue of efficiency as it is game design and this exact concept of “why do X when Y is best gp” is the whole drive behind playing an Ironman.
From personal experience, As a new player who really just got into old school runescape because all I had to play on was a phone and rs3 just wouldn't work on a old samsung. Tick manipulation and efficiency just felt like the natural course, I wanted to get higher stats so getting those xp drops faster was enticing, So I learned. but I don't think tick manipulation should scare off new players (it didnt for me) its not like you'll mess up a 3 tick cycle and be harrassed on your bad clicks and even if there were just hop worlds or stop streaming. Not to mention alot of the community talks about "afk" ways to play, where you put in minimum effort to get gp or xp like amethyst mining. So it might be the lazy way but hey its progress and no matter if you got say 99 cooking in 1 tick karambwans or afk cooking salmon. People are still gonna say "gratz" and move on because it really doesn't matter how you got to the achievement generally people are pretty supportive and the community keeps me in this game along with the fulfillment of the grinds.
I think this an example of a game being fully figured out over time. For example in Fortnites early days just building a ramp was impressive, nowadays u have to be able to build an entire city just to have a chance at killing one player. Same with League of Legends doing an 'Insec' was a move only pro players could perform early on, now average players can pull it off.
average players could pull insec, and we'd all be yelling it over vc as a joke. we all grew up, man. we used to be really, absolutely godawful at the games we play. I bet any stranger who is an adult reading this comment has the ability to get Gold in LoL. It's a pretty low standard of human function - but we used to play games for fun, not to extract standards of skill and improve upon those skills for the sake of getting better at video games.
I think I need to specify this deeply. Prayer Switching =/= Prayer Flicking. Simply switching your prayer to the right style is no where near Flicking prayer every tick ( 1 tick flick or block flicking)
It's just the way humans work, they will optimize the fun out of everything. And why i mean by that is that it is the nature of games like this. It's fun to find the optimal way of doing things, experimenting, until you find the most optimal thing. Then that drains the fun out of it the more you do it.
As someone with joint problems, it kind of just confirmed for me that the higher end content likely isn't going to be for me if it ends up being balanced around these mechanics. Things like the quests and skilling I tend to enjoy more and I'm fine with my slow methods of raising levels. While I do do some things to be more efficient, they're things that aren't going to kill my hands and which I still find fun. Grinding's genuinely something I've always liked since I was a kid, but like I do know that there are points where grinds can become Unfun for me. And killing my hands is definitely among the Unfun things. But the treating it like it's my job thing is up there too. I suppose I'm just happy that the content most affected by this is stuff I generally don't care about much for with MMOs. I've never been into raids and the like as much as others. I'm generally around for things like quests, raising skills and rping. As someone who loves speedrunning as a spectator though, I do think that these methods are interesting to learn about. Efficiency is just kind of really cool, I think. The amount of work that goes into routing things, into testing things, etc. It'll never be my thing. Especially not with my hands. But it is neat seeing what weird shit people have concocted. I just hope they're taking breaks and doing stretches and exercises as needed.
This hyper efficiency became relevant once information could be shared much more easily through the internet. The main cause of this obsession with being efficient directly results from the satisfaction players feel when they get better at a game, and they use efficiency as a metric for that. It would be easy to argue that most people would not be satisfied with remaining at the same ability level after playing the same game for years. Players need to be validated just as anyone else who invests a lot of time into a hobby or skill.
I've played runescape between 2003 and, I think, 2009. Complaints about efficiency caps are nothing new. Ever since I was active on the forums, people were explaining to each other how to get the best xp/h. The tick system was just not known in the early years and the methods were just much simpler so you did not need spreadsheets. A popular example was taking the gp/h you could make into account. E.g. if you made X amount of money, green d hide bodies was best for crafting, but if you made more, cutting diamond was more efficient. Efficient here means minimizing the total time spent training and making back the money lost while training.
Yes, as he said there was always a level of efficiency in the community (after the earliest days anyway). Don't fish shrimp forever, do salmon. Salmon/trout will get you better xp but lobbies are better for money, shit like that. He's talking more about the "sweatier/more tryhard" methods.
Good video. Constructive critisism: While talking about the evolution of efficiency in the game, had you contextualized that evolution by speaking of “what was the game centered around before the introduction of skillcapes?” (e.g. socializing), it would have broaden the perspective of the evolution of effeciency by highlighting its counterparting nature to the playerbase’s focus before and thus made your point come across more clearly.
Prayer-flicking is turning your prayer on and off every tick, to not use prayer. In the video you refer to prayer-switching as prayer-flicking, which are different. Only mentioned this to clarify what the jmod was referring to in the clip. They balanced around prayer-flicking as if they didn't, people would be able to survive the inferno with tons of supplies left.
The game has become both more sweaty and more AFK. We've gotten the Inferno, but we've also gotten Scurrius. While this might seem paradoxical, it goes back to what Runescape was always best at: letting players explore the world in exactly the way they want to.
This is crazy. I started rs in 03 and yeah there was no tick manipulation well not for the majority of us kids who went to school with rumors about monsters dropping dragon weapons which was at the time pretty end game weapons. I was one of the few with a prayer cape to after construction released I lent out my gilded alter and made a bunch of money to buy 99 prayer and used my own house and yeah going to GE you were flooded with cape emote spams as prayer, herblore and farming were really rare. But fletching, cooking and fire making capes were all over the place.
omg thank you for correcting your pronunciation of Melee, growing up playing smash bros and hearing people call it "mee-lee" when the fucking announcer yells MAAYLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY drove me insane.
Reading about or finding optimal efficiency routes is something I’ve always enjoyed about video games. But when I’ve exhausted most of my interest in a game, that’s when you get weird with it. The stages of competence, I guess, lol.
As a newer player (made account 6 years ago, only played about a years time in the last 2 years), I can tell you right now that prayer flicking and tick manipulation has not effected me up until bossing. I'm rather intimidated by it, but I view it as a challenge, not an obstacle. I understand that it's become a huge part of OSRS, just as you and the OSRS team said, bosses are adjusted to prayer flicking and tick manipulation. I can't speak for other, or all newer/new players though.
I think both the playerbase and the game have evolved, side-by-side. We the players are older, and not only do we value our time differently, we also get satisfaction from the planning elements (spreadsheets, routing, theory crafting). The devs see our collective shift and have catered more and more to it over time.
I dont think peoples actually value their time by being efficent, if you want to value your time you wouldent play the game at all. But I do get that some peoples get satisfaction over getting high exp rates but most peoples that do tick manipulation usually plays the game for 16h a day they are not exactly valuing their time by any means.
@@zedorian6547 The great thing about this game is that you can do whatever you want, I'm the AFK skiller and I'm just fascinated by people tryharding tick skilling.
@@beingofstrange What you mean is that runescape, or video games in general, are a waste of time, and that is an opinion you are free to have! Nobody hates you for it. But it isn't mine and probably isn't the original commenter's, so it has no value in the discussion lol.. silly logic. It is exactly the same as me saying "any one of your hobbies that isn't making you money is a waste of your time, if you valued your time you wouldn't do anything except for work." But I get it, I'm overexaggerating, it's just the funny joke that Runescape is the game people "hate" playing because they sink hundreds of hours into it haha
When I learned about tick manipulation I avoided it like the plague because it sounded hard to do same with pray flicking. They are something you have to actively do and some players wanna play passively. I think it’s good for the game because people love to get better outcomes. I think it’ll hurt the playerbase a little if it becomes mandatory
its just gradually figuring the game out and having different goals (as kids we just wanted to mess around at castle wars, as adults we want to "feel productive"). Max cape is definitely a factor though... pre max cape was like 100 maxed players? (OSRS). Now its 30k.
As someone who took part and won the thing three times with my old clan, I expected a segment about the Jagex Skilling Cup, a competition for which clans had to select their most efficient players and have them record their most efficient hours of skilling in specific skills. Great video nonetheless
I feel like prayer flicking ruined future content when it comes to PVM. Sure any account can prayer flick without prayer potions, but the issue is NEEDING to do it for most bosses or content added to the game. It should be an option, not a necessity, when a majority of players don't actively do that.
I highly agree. Not to mention prayer flicking is that thing of easy to learn hard to master but for some with bad internet or certain hand troubles at older ages it proves one dimensional mechanics. I'm not against it but I'd definitely like to see better mechanics involved that aren't just based around flicking a prayer on and off.
It's a tedious mechanic, not a fun one. And being bad at it, or refusing to do it costs you money, as you'll need 50x the prayer pots that a decent flicker needs.
Instead of having fun chilling and accomplishing nothing, our satisfaction levels with the game became directly tied to the achievements we worked for. One of my best achievements on OSRS was Maxing back in 2021 and it wasn’t necessarily a fun grind, but it was fun being done with it and having the result of my hard work.
I think it could be because a few players like the experimentation and technical-knowledge required to figure this type of "efficiency" out to be their gameplay. They enjoy finding mathmetically the best methods, largest xp amount figured out. It could be a type of play-style.
I'm not the biggest EOC fan, but this video literally proved why they had to do it. Prayer flicking isn't a good mechanic to lock end game content behind, and that's why they went with EOC.
I think this evolution is due to both the aging player base and the nature of playing RPGs in general. RPG players and MMORPG players have always been the kind of people who want t maximize gains for minimal effort. Efficiency, I would argue, has always been a part of the landscape. The thing is that in 1990 the internet wasn’t so vast, and people were not as connected, so you really only found out about something like tick manipulation via friends. These days, there are hundreds of easy to find guides and videos on the topic, and no friends required! So it very much is a hallmark of the time, but also the age of players. I would like to get back into OSRS, but I get maybe an hour to play each day - some weeks I may not even be able to play at all. You can bet that I’d rather play as efficiently as possible in that hour if I could, especially since I’m paying for the ability to play. This combination of low free time + readily available information on how to be efficient is probably the main driver for this style of play.
the first time I heard about ticks was when Woox killed jad with no armor or items with only 1 prayer point left back in like 2010.. i didn't know how he did it
I’ll lazy flick on a boss when I’m feeling intense, but I do my skilling very chill I don’t like the intensity of the efficiency-scape. I think if people would slow down and do a few silly random things between their grinds, then they would have more fun
Cool vid. Just so that no noobs get the wrong idea though, the explanation of what was happening in the general graardor room is incorrect. What you're seeing in the video is praying melee when graardor attacks, then swapping to range and mage for the minions attacks. It is not possible to protect against the boss' range attack by praying range (especially considering it is a melee attack that rolls against your ranged defence) I know it's a minor detail and doesn't matter at all, but I waste too much time playing this game to not mention it
Hey Runescape Historian, I've decided to try playing Runescape, Old School specifically. Did you ever make a starters guide, or know of a good one I could refer to?
I believe that Momeydragon has a video showing her having fun while still staying at Rank 1 Hunter. She sacrificed sleep and not RS socialization when going for 200m, interestingly. Also, I think we could use an interview from N0valyfe on early efficiency, years before Zarfot. No chance the same amount of people who are playing from 2003-2023 will be playing from 2015-2035. Efficiency being a main priority ruined the social aspect of the game.
There is absolutely no way anyone that's grinding 200m all skills with tick manipulation enjoys it. Have u seen that Autmn Elegy guys streams? sounds like he's on the verge of falling asleep and hates his life
me as a relative new Oldschoold Player (tried it for like 1 week, switch to a few month rs3, now OSRS back) founds this tick manipulation extrem interesting. Yeah it sounds extrem hard first, but the more and more you try you will learn it! Im not nearby a expert or ANYTHING like that! Im not 3-Tick fish or someting, but espacialy prayer flicking too maintain prayer longer in combats makes it more activ und give a little more feeling over the control of the fight
7:00 prayer flicking and even 1 tick flicking is already a hard requirement for combat tasks, kill boss without losing 1 prayer point etc. You'd have to be pretty lucky to tank Jad with no protection prayers
That Jad one is easy. Just have more than 97 HP. Jad has a max hit of 97, so you just need to either have high HP or overheal, and everything should be fine.
The game has evolved as a direct result of the playerbase evolving and valuing their time more. Best part about this game is you can play how you want. I've 2 tick wc'd but then turned around and afked to 99 at redwoods. You can choose to be sweaty or you can choose a low efficiency method. That's what makes OSRS amazing its a true sandbox.
Surely if you valued your time you would learn to speak German or play the violin or something. I thought the entire point of this was to waste time. Even if you get all 99s you have not actually achieved anything of value so why rush.
@@ericconnor8419 the value comes from the enjoyment of the game. "Not wasting time" on terms of not wasting entertainment time. Leisure time is not infinite especially if you have kids. Also many people likely spend their time learning while playing runescape. When I was in college I often afkd something while doing homework. Runescape is the ultimate sandbox multi task style game.
im 28 with a wife and 2 kids and a job. its afkscape or uninstallscape, not down for those sweaty tick sessions. i just wanna have a chill sesh in my downtime
I think if osrs doesn't cater to us oldies the game is going in the tank. I wouldn't worry too much man. Those chinese investors want long term growth!
What's also come with the spreadsheet nerds is how they follow them like a religion and get really toxic about it I straight up left a cc I was in for years all because I thought certain gear was better which it clearly was in my experience and my own testing of it, but that DPS calc showed it wasn't, and a few of these dudes would argue about it ENDLESSLY and constantly bring it up whenever I said anything in chat and just get really rude and personal with their attacks. It's not an uncommon occurence either, some really strangely toxic people on this game
If you go and look up the old players like Zarfot and Foot they were the micro efficient tick manipulating people pre eoc then you had people like Suomi who was macro efficient just playing the game a lot taking donations or whatever else
I can't say which for sure, but I'd rather not have future content be required to know a mechanic, that you don't have any idea of knowing, outside of the game's given guidance to get you to even know what a 'tick' is. It's why I've heard movement is clunky in RuneScape to even play for some people, or how it's clunky to do certain actions, due to this tick system indirectly. Even if developers acknowledged their 'mistake' as something to be okay with, I don't know why mixing herbs, cutting trees and then clicking a fishing spot would correlate to someone a more active/efficient method of training, unless you really read up, read tons of guides and know the game, like the Missingo glitch of Pokemon allowing you to have infinite items at 11th or 13th inventory spot, after talking to an old man. Only way I'd say it would be good, if Jagex actually developed items intended to use to mechanic, like for fishing to be able to get faster XP rates. It could even be the same action/clicks you do, but something that actually makes sense and can be taught by the game to get you to understand ticks. It rewards a more active play, but offers you the option to be AFK as well.
It came from the players and the game adapted to them. When a game first comes out everybody is bad at it. Over time the average player gets better and better. And RuneScape has been around a long time now.
If they start making content where you have to prayer flick or tick eat I’m fucking out. I like pvm to be calm and relaxing. I will never go for an infernal cape.
I think its more of a player thing. because the same stuff happened in other mmorpgs in the early 2010s. recently they brought back classic wow but the players have become way more elitist than in 2005. for a long time most people blamed it on the dungeon finder and the cataclysm expansion that streamlined all the low level content and removed group quests .all of this happened around the same period as when the runescape community got more elitist. as you can see resetting the game to the start did not make the community nicer or act like how they did in the 2000s. i heard similar stories from people who played other obscure mmorpgs. the only exception is ff14 but that is only because the game devs go out of their way to punish elitism and the use of weird mechanics and addons.
Personally I blame 50% of this trend caused by release of bonds. Forced and encouraged players to care only about money and efficiency. The game starting to feel more and more like a job then just a game you having fun. No I don't think this is healthy for the game to encourage sweaty try-harding with tick manipulation and creating new content based on these type of players.
Is tick manipulation an accepted glitch that has been embraced, or is it an engine limitation that cannot be fixed or would require a massive undertaking to fix which would upset the community if it was? While I don't mind tick manipulation for things, I don't like the idea that boss monsters are going to be designed around what is essentially manipulating a limitation in the game engine that was never intended from the start.
you can increase the tickrate theoretically but the entire engine runs on ticks and it would be a massive undertaking. you would also need to improve the servers because with the 4 ticks per second rate they have now going up will put much more strain on the servers that can barely run when they're being ddosed.
If you want to get rid of the tick system in general, you need to rewrite the code for basically the whole game. We're speaking about RuneScape 4 or OSRS 2 at that point.
Tick manipulation became dumb when future content was built around it. The only meaningful blame can be point towards the developers for actively allowing and even encouraging efficiency (tic manipulation in bosses such as the Inferno). Blaming the players for a changed mind-set is meaningless, it is up to the developers to attract the types of crowds they want to attract.
Efficiency within the gaming spectrum has ruined a core part of playing video games in my mind. I have more fun playing a game when I have no clue what is going on rather than hard sweating like it is a job.
Fr, our memories of old rs2 are so vivid because we had no idea what the world had waiting for us, we just played mostly blind and discovered new things every day. The world still felt huge and mysterious
Yeah not at all. EOC is old compared to efficiency, at least from what I've been experiencing. I used to play for "lowest game time per exp" and it was a year or two before 2009.
@@princelorian this lol i never had a 99 . Ever since i started to afk train ive literally got 7 99s in 4 months. Tbf though i have the freedom to afk 12 hours on mobile while im at work
This is something that happens in every game, even short single player games. Eventually players will find the most optimal strategy and play that way, even if it means taking all the fun out of the gameplay. This is because most games are goal driven. It’s the responsibility of a good designer to make sure the most rewarding method is also the most fun method. That’s where RuneScape has heavily failed in the design department.
I agree 100%. A lot of the communities I've been in were pking or minigames and they've died now. It's all meta gaming and dmm tournies or high profile pkers that pk literally 8hrs a day for a job. Of course they will be the best and have the coordination to tick perfectly, and switch. It's gotten to the stage where people watch it and don't play it so it's sad in a way.
I've accepted I wont do inferno. I struggle with Pray flicking immensely and tick manipulation is pretty much out of the picture for me. I PRAY it doesn't become a staple for content going forward. Runescape is not that kind of game and really wasn't meant to be for decades.
Are you aware of YTMD? If you search by runescape and sort by oldest, there are some real old, golden, stupid memy stuff on there from as early as 2005
Efficienyscape killed the game for me. Technically mtx killed it first, and then oldschool got released and I remembered people stopped playing minigames and stopped talking with eachother period. Then the sweaty pking scene showed up tick abuse prayer flicking etc. I actually prefer the way combat is ran in rs3. Prayer has an animation, a quick animation but an animation. Magic doesnt suck, one type of melee weapon doesnt dominate all weapons. And EOC like it or not, just adds gameplay to the gameplay. That said I play osrs anyways, RS3 has issues and the artstyle is one of them, theres also no challenge at all outside of endgame bosses. RS HD (just before eoc) was the golden age of RS for me, Summoning was cool, dungeoneering was perfect. The games artstyle looked the best and I believe prayers had those animations just before EOC. I was one of the few that liked eoc, but jagex never balanced it.
Haha I got to admit the only spreadsheet I looked at not from myself but from a youtuber was a slayer one back in 2016 and he had macros through VB and everything. I can't imagine building a macro enabled spreadsheet with VB just for using on countless hrs on a tree or rock in a game that you don't earn a living from (maybe some do streaming)
99% of players I know are afkers who talk about how everyone cares about efficiency these days. Like one percent or less are consistently tick manipulating skills and going for max xp/hr methods.
growing up playing this game if you was one them people that cared about exp so much you couldnt even talk for a min you was labeled as a No life in my eyes and i deleted them i now wish i didnt do such thing but it is ture
Depends on the community who is talking about tick methods. Yeah im sure some of them are doing it to save time but I think we all know that runescape is not a game that needs to be rushed in terms or progression. I think a lot of tick manipulators do it to improve themselves and see what kind of mechanics they can learn. However, theres also a good chunk of elitist pricks in osrs that do tick manipulation just so they can condescend those who dont. They dont want to be deemed inferior.
Efficiency is killing this game. I purposefully wear Justiciar over bandos purely for the fashion scape and the amount of guys that run over to Me seething demanding to know why I'm not wearing bis this or that is unreal
Yeah I kinda have to agree, there's a guy in my clan who will ask 'Whats everyone doing' periodically, I've learned to ignore him because the moment you tell him what you are doing he starts aggressively telling you to do it a more 'efficient' way, and if you turn down the advice he gets salty about it as if you've just insulted his mother or something. Real annoying when you just want to chat with people and train the skills you want, the way you want.
@@Robothuck haha omg those guys are the worst. Their life must really suck to be telling you how to play a game that you have free reign to do whatever the fuck you want how you like it! Tell him get stuffed from me
@@mckdogdrums3543 haha that won't be necessary I learned to just ignore him when he asks in the clan chat 'whats everyone doing' pretty sure the only reason he asks is so he can start backseat gaming everyone
Prayer flicking is the worst part of the game. It prevents me from bossing, it's absolutely a terrible mechanic and should not be required to boss. I've basically stopped playing for now because of this dumb mechanic.
LOL at God Ash's face for that entire Q&A section
Yeah he does not look happy with the topic lol. Ash is a true classic Runescape fan, not whatever OSRS has become over the past decade. Love that he's still there though. When (if) he leaves I think it's highly likely the game takes an even bigger turn for the worse.
I hope tick manipulation doesn't seep into too much content. I get that I'll never attempt the Inferno, but the majority of the game probably shouldn't need it.
A popular quote from some game Dev was that "Player's if given the chance will optimize the fun out of a game." I feel like Jagex has just leaned in on the certain player type that enjoys doing these kinds of things and has in turn alienated the people who don't want to give the time of day to learn techniques that don't feel like genuine mechanics and more manipulation.
I started playing recently (I was partying when it was first popular), I love the world and role playing games in general. I wander about exploring in my silly outfit and chatting to people but 90% of players seem to be running around wearing the same white hooded outfit, doing the same handful of tasks as fast as possible and saying nothing. It looks like they are at work. I thought it was supposed to be social and fun. I know there are supposed to be lots of bots but it is hard to tell who is even real.
@@ericconnor8419 based non-efficient player. I hate how everyone is always wearing graceful and I think it’s ugly so I literally don’t wear it. I wanna wear what I wanna wear, the run energy almost never affects me anyways
One thing: Prayer flicking in combat was not possible before the pre-piety era (summer 2007). Changing a prayer would cause the character to stop attacking, meaning you'd also need to click the thing you were fighting after changing a prayer. There was no left-click option for higher level creatures/players either.
Cool video man.
I've played osrs since day 1 launch. Only just reached base 80's. Never been interested in tick manipulation or anything meta really. For me I'll prioritise the most social method over anything in game.
Places like MLM are my favourite. Afk, easy xp, and on the top level, fairly social. I see the same people for weeks at a time, made good friends with people there and gone onto boss or minigame with them. I could never tick manipulate a granite block on my own for hours. You never get the classic runescape experience.
Reading this inspires me to go back and play
@@Renblade Good luck bro. It's the best playstyle. You find yourself doing things you always felt too anxious to try on your own. One of my best memories was going to do KBD for the first time with 2 other players, also their first time. We met mining shooting stars. We decided none of us would leave until we all had the KBD head for our slayer helmets. us 3 did the same a few months back for the KQ head.
@@kennwan9917 I've played for a little over 20 years and I realize that i wasted 50% of that playtime trying for high daily xp gain. That doesn't mean anything though! to have all these experiences of more niche activities that are more social,I bet that's more fun. I guess it's also less known and a bit nerve-wracking because people are out chasing 99s instead.
i beat Zezima for xpgain/week a single time in my life in 2012. Instead of making any friends :D
@@AdamOwenBrowning It made sense from the start, people having to go through the same skills and quests they'd already conquered as a kid, on top of socials being more active now for tips and tricks, everyone seems to know the meta. But these types of gamers exists in every game universe nowadays. I doubt it has much to do with saving time, as I'm pretty sure you've got to be unemployed to face the idea of 2 tick grinding. I could never after a long day at work.
But these people burn out easily, they probably make the least progress spread out over a few years, because I bet half of that is spent burnt out bank standing.
Besides, when you make it to end game, You want people to enjoy the content with. If you spent years with entity hider on and telling kids to "hop" then you'll have all the stats and none of the friends.
Long term it is not healthy for the game, I think the new skill should be specifically designed around avoiding tick manipulation methods. It causes stress on hands/joints and isn't enjoyable. My favorite boss in the game is The Hunllef, because it requires you to watch for which prayer to switch to, avoid certain tiles on the ground, keep track of your weapon style and navigate around the room. It isn't a boss where I have to eat at the same exact tick I get hit to heal through damage, which isn't intuitive at all.
Even the sweatiest methods like barblore can be done without too much stress on your hands, since you're not just spam clicking and tensing up just results in worse clicks and should be avoided. Although obviously if you do anything intense for 5 hours in a row you'll feel it in your joints, but that's a matter of not taking breaks rather than the method itself.
You can just not do it though. You just don't have to tick manipulate to max skilling. Its like me saying the GE shouldn't exist because i think ironman is more fun
@@papabaddad Oh yeah absolutely, if you don't find tick manipulation fun or rewarding you shouldn't do it unless you have a very limited amount of time to play and want diary reqs in a reasonable amount of time. But it's also incorrect to say that it has to cause physical strain.
@@papabaddad Not really because if everybody else is playing like a sweat then PKing becomes unviable and gathering worthless because of inflation. If people are hammering one technique for maximum 'efficiency' the role playing and game part get lost. What is the point of growing crops if they sell for nothing because people are hitting the same boss ten times in a row and picking up 1000s of expensive herbs.
@@ericconnor8419not so much an issue of efficiency as it is game design and this exact concept of “why do X when Y is best gp” is the whole drive behind playing an Ironman.
From personal experience, As a new player who really just got into old school runescape because all I had to play on was a phone and rs3 just wouldn't work on a old samsung.
Tick manipulation and efficiency just felt like the natural course, I wanted to get higher stats so getting those xp drops faster was enticing, So I learned. but I don't think tick manipulation should scare off new players (it didnt for me) its not like you'll mess up a 3 tick cycle and be harrassed on your bad clicks and even if there were just hop worlds or stop streaming.
Not to mention alot of the community talks about "afk" ways to play, where you put in minimum effort to get gp or xp like amethyst mining. So it might be the lazy way but hey its progress and no matter if you got say 99 cooking in 1 tick karambwans or afk cooking salmon. People are still gonna say "gratz" and move on because it really doesn't matter how you got to the achievement generally people are pretty supportive and the community keeps me in this game along with the fulfillment of the grinds.
You’re welcome.
Literally, only scrolled back and clicked just to support. Keep it up bro!
I think this an example of a game being fully figured out over time.
For example in Fortnites early days just building a ramp was impressive, nowadays u have to be able to build an entire city just to have a chance at killing one player. Same with League of Legends doing an 'Insec' was a move only pro players could perform early on, now average players can pull it off.
totally agree
And then fortnight reverted back to its old ways before building because players got sick of building cities just to get one kill
We dont mention fortnite here bro. Trash game and your a plague if you played it
average players could pull insec, and we'd all be yelling it over vc as a joke.
we all grew up, man. we used to be really, absolutely godawful at the games we play. I bet any stranger who is an adult reading this comment has the ability to get Gold in LoL.
It's a pretty low standard of human function - but we used to play games for fun, not to extract standards of skill and improve upon those skills for the sake of getting better at video games.
I think I need to specify this deeply. Prayer Switching =/= Prayer Flicking. Simply switching your prayer to the right style is no where near Flicking prayer every tick ( 1 tick flick or block flicking)
It's just the way humans work, they will optimize the fun out of everything. And why i mean by that is that it is the nature of games like this. It's fun to find the optimal way of doing things, experimenting, until you find the most optimal thing. Then that drains the fun out of it the more you do it.
yeah, this is a hot topic for sure. to me, efficiency-scape is when the magic of the game started to wither and die.
As someone with joint problems, it kind of just confirmed for me that the higher end content likely isn't going to be for me if it ends up being balanced around these mechanics. Things like the quests and skilling I tend to enjoy more and I'm fine with my slow methods of raising levels. While I do do some things to be more efficient, they're things that aren't going to kill my hands and which I still find fun. Grinding's genuinely something I've always liked since I was a kid, but like I do know that there are points where grinds can become Unfun for me. And killing my hands is definitely among the Unfun things. But the treating it like it's my job thing is up there too.
I suppose I'm just happy that the content most affected by this is stuff I generally don't care about much for with MMOs. I've never been into raids and the like as much as others. I'm generally around for things like quests, raising skills and rping.
As someone who loves speedrunning as a spectator though, I do think that these methods are interesting to learn about. Efficiency is just kind of really cool, I think. The amount of work that goes into routing things, into testing things, etc. It'll never be my thing. Especially not with my hands. But it is neat seeing what weird shit people have concocted. I just hope they're taking breaks and doing stretches and exercises as needed.
Worst comment I’ve read possibly ever
@@hansa9159 *Written 😉
I agree 100%
Thanks for taking my suggestion!
This hyper efficiency became relevant once information could be shared much more easily through the internet. The main cause of this obsession with being efficient directly results from the satisfaction players feel when they get better at a game, and they use efficiency as a metric for that. It would be easy to argue that most people would not be satisfied with remaining at the same ability level after playing the same game for years. Players need to be validated just as anyone else who invests a lot of time into a hobby or skill.
I've played runescape between 2003 and, I think, 2009. Complaints about efficiency caps are nothing new. Ever since I was active on the forums, people were explaining to each other how to get the best xp/h. The tick system was just not known in the early years and the methods were just much simpler so you did not need spreadsheets. A popular example was taking the gp/h you could make into account. E.g. if you made X amount of money, green d hide bodies was best for crafting, but if you made more, cutting diamond was more efficient. Efficient here means minimizing the total time spent training and making back the money lost while training.
Yes, as he said there was always a level of efficiency in the community (after the earliest days anyway). Don't fish shrimp forever, do salmon. Salmon/trout will get you better xp but lobbies are better for money, shit like that. He's talking more about the "sweatier/more tryhard" methods.
Jagex : We want more skill in our game, Also Jagex : T bow.
Lol and Jethro Tull's blow pipe already in game by 2015 that completely changed the meta
4:38 I had no idea that was a thing, that is insane.
Prayer flicking was something I just went "OH COOL!" When I saw it and pulled it off in pvm. It's for high level play, and I get that.
Good video. Constructive critisism: While talking about the evolution of efficiency in the game, had you contextualized that evolution by speaking of “what was the game centered around before the introduction of skillcapes?” (e.g. socializing), it would have broaden the perspective of the evolution of effeciency by highlighting its counterparting nature to the playerbase’s focus before and thus made your point come across more clearly.
Its the sweat. If they sweat enough, they'll have a lower chance of touching grass.
i remember always being so self concious about people seeing the bronze arrows i was shooting lmao
Prayer-flicking is turning your prayer on and off every tick, to not use prayer. In the video you refer to prayer-switching as prayer-flicking, which are different. Only mentioned this to clarify what the jmod was referring to in the clip. They balanced around prayer-flicking as if they didn't, people would be able to survive the inferno with tons of supplies left.
I remember obtaining one of the first few quest capes and being pestered all over Gielnor, it was nice lol
The game has become both more sweaty and more AFK. We've gotten the Inferno, but we've also gotten Scurrius. While this might seem paradoxical, it goes back to what Runescape was always best at: letting players explore the world in exactly the way they want to.
This is crazy. I started rs in 03 and yeah there was no tick manipulation well not for the majority of us kids who went to school with rumors about monsters dropping dragon weapons which was at the time pretty end game weapons. I was one of the few with a prayer cape to after construction released I lent out my gilded alter and made a bunch of money to buy 99 prayer and used my own house and yeah going to GE you were flooded with cape emote spams as prayer, herblore and farming were really rare. But fletching, cooking and fire making capes were all over the place.
omg thank you for correcting your pronunciation of Melee, growing up playing smash bros and hearing people call it "mee-lee" when the fucking announcer yells MAAYLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY drove me insane.
Reading about or finding optimal efficiency routes is something I’ve always enjoyed about video games. But when I’ve exhausted most of my interest in a game, that’s when you get weird with it. The stages of competence, I guess, lol.
As a newer player (made account 6 years ago, only played about a years time in the last 2 years), I can tell you right now that prayer flicking and tick manipulation has not effected me up until bossing. I'm rather intimidated by it, but I view it as a challenge, not an obstacle. I understand that it's become a huge part of OSRS, just as you and the OSRS team said, bosses are adjusted to prayer flicking and tick manipulation.
I can't speak for other, or all newer/new players though.
efficiently clicked this vid
I think both the playerbase and the game have evolved, side-by-side. We the players are older, and not only do we value our time differently, we also get satisfaction from the planning elements (spreadsheets, routing, theory crafting). The devs see our collective shift and have catered more and more to it over time.
Im not so sure about that “we” part. Im tired of all the hyper efficiency to be honest. Its boring and kills any sense of adventure in my opinion.
I dont think peoples actually value their time by being efficent, if you want to value your time you wouldent play the game at all. But I do get that some peoples get satisfaction over getting high exp rates but most peoples that do tick manipulation usually plays the game for 16h a day they are not exactly valuing their time by any means.
@@zedorian6547 The great thing about this game is that you can do whatever you want, I'm the AFK skiller and I'm just fascinated by people tryharding tick skilling.
if you valued your time you wouldn't play runescape lol.. this is a silly reason for being "efficient"
@@beingofstrange What you mean is that runescape, or video games in general, are a waste of time, and that is an opinion you are free to have! Nobody hates you for it. But it isn't mine and probably isn't the original commenter's, so it has no value in the discussion lol.. silly logic. It is exactly the same as me saying "any one of your hobbies that isn't making you money is a waste of your time, if you valued your time you wouldn't do anything except for work." But I get it, I'm overexaggerating, it's just the funny joke that Runescape is the game people "hate" playing because they sink hundreds of hours into it haha
When I learned about tick manipulation I avoided it like the plague because it sounded hard to do same with pray flicking. They are something you have to actively do and some players wanna play passively. I think it’s good for the game because people love to get better outcomes. I think it’ll hurt the playerbase a little if it becomes mandatory
its just gradually figuring the game out and having different goals (as kids we just wanted to mess around at castle wars, as adults we want to "feel productive").
Max cape is definitely a factor though... pre max cape was like 100 maxed players? (OSRS). Now its 30k.
imagine feeling productive while playing runescape lmao
As someone who took part and won the thing three times with my old clan, I expected a segment about the Jagex Skilling Cup, a competition for which clans had to select their most efficient players and have them record their most efficient hours of skilling in specific skills. Great video nonetheless
I feel like prayer flicking ruined future content when it comes to PVM. Sure any account can prayer flick without prayer potions, but the issue is NEEDING to do it for most bosses or content added to the game. It should be an option, not a necessity, when a majority of players don't actively do that.
This type of balancing is why I don't play anymore lol
I highly agree. Not to mention prayer flicking is that thing of easy to learn hard to master but for some with bad internet or certain hand troubles at older ages it proves one dimensional mechanics.
I'm not against it but I'd definitely like to see better mechanics involved that aren't just based around flicking a prayer on and off.
It's a tedious mechanic, not a fun one. And being bad at it, or refusing to do it costs you money, as you'll need 50x the prayer pots that a decent flicker needs.
tick manipulation is pretty discouraging to me, especially tick eating. i mean what the fuck dude
Instead of having fun chilling and accomplishing nothing, our satisfaction levels with the game became directly tied to the achievements we worked for. One of my best achievements on OSRS was Maxing back in 2021 and it wasn’t necessarily a fun grind, but it was fun being done with it and having the result of my hard work.
Efficiency is a fun way to spruce up a game we all grew up playing, but it's not for everyone.
I think it could be because a few players like the experimentation and technical-knowledge required to figure this type of "efficiency" out to be their gameplay. They enjoy finding mathmetically the best methods, largest xp amount figured out. It could be a type of play-style.
RS players are wild. Everyone freaked out about EOC but players are going nuts over Excel Sheet RS
Subscribed.
I'm not the biggest EOC fan, but this video literally proved why they had to do it. Prayer flicking isn't a good mechanic to lock end game content behind, and that's why they went with EOC.
I feel like the answer is just that it's mostly adults playing the game instead of kids now.
I think this evolution is due to both the aging player base and the nature of playing RPGs in general. RPG players and MMORPG players have always been the kind of people who want t maximize gains for minimal effort. Efficiency, I would argue, has always been a part of the landscape. The thing is that in 1990 the internet wasn’t so vast, and people were not as connected, so you really only found out about something like tick manipulation via friends. These days, there are hundreds of easy to find guides and videos on the topic, and no friends required! So it very much is a hallmark of the time, but also the age of players. I would like to get back into OSRS, but I get maybe an hour to play each day - some weeks I may not even be able to play at all. You can bet that I’d rather play as efficiently as possible in that hour if I could, especially since I’m paying for the ability to play. This combination of low free time + readily available information on how to be efficient is probably the main driver for this style of play.
the first time I heard about ticks was when Woox killed jad with no armor or items with only 1 prayer point left back in like 2010.. i didn't know how he did it
I’ll lazy flick on a boss when I’m feeling intense, but I do my skilling very chill
I don’t like the intensity of the efficiency-scape. I think if people would slow down and do a few silly random things between their grinds, then they would have more fun
Cool vid. Just so that no noobs get the wrong idea though, the explanation of what was happening in the general graardor room is incorrect. What you're seeing in the video is praying melee when graardor attacks, then swapping to range and mage for the minions attacks.
It is not possible to protect against the boss' range attack by praying range (especially considering it is a melee attack that rolls against your ranged defence)
I know it's a minor detail and doesn't matter at all, but I waste too much time playing this game to not mention it
Hey Runescape Historian, I've decided to try playing Runescape, Old School specifically. Did you ever make a starters guide, or know of a good one I could refer to?
I was here in an efficient time
I believe that Momeydragon has a video showing her having fun while still staying at Rank 1 Hunter. She sacrificed sleep and not RS socialization when going for 200m, interestingly. Also, I think we could use an interview from N0valyfe on early efficiency, years before Zarfot.
No chance the same amount of people who are playing from 2003-2023 will be playing from 2015-2035. Efficiency being a main priority ruined the social aspect of the game.
Ive not fully watched the video fully yet, but i guess you should mention Zarfot somewhere in here
I remember when Legends cape meant the wearer was an absolute badass
What forums were those at 1:55 ? I like reading message boards from around this era
Was it zybez? Remember running one pretty popular in 2013-2016 and then they shut it down
There is absolutely no way anyone that's grinding 200m all skills with tick manipulation enjoys it. Have u seen that Autmn Elegy guys streams? sounds like he's on the verge of falling asleep and hates his life
me as a relative new Oldschoold Player (tried it for like 1 week, switch to a few month rs3, now OSRS back) founds this tick manipulation extrem interesting. Yeah it sounds extrem hard first, but the more and more you try you will learn it! Im not nearby a expert or ANYTHING like that! Im not 3-Tick fish or someting, but espacialy prayer flicking too maintain prayer longer in combats makes it more activ und give a little more feeling over the control of the fight
Can always remember you don't have to follow anyone on runescape. It's whatever you want to do
7:00 prayer flicking and even 1 tick flicking is already a hard requirement for combat tasks, kill boss without losing 1 prayer point etc.
You'd have to be pretty lucky to tank Jad with no protection prayers
That Jad one is easy. Just have more than 97 HP. Jad has a max hit of 97, so you just need to either have high HP or overheal, and everything should be fine.
The game has evolved as a direct result of the playerbase evolving and valuing their time more. Best part about this game is you can play how you want. I've 2 tick wc'd but then turned around and afked to 99 at redwoods. You can choose to be sweaty or you can choose a low efficiency method. That's what makes OSRS amazing its a true sandbox.
Surely if you valued your time you would learn to speak German or play the violin or something. I thought the entire point of this was to waste time. Even if you get all 99s you have not actually achieved anything of value so why rush.
@@ericconnor8419 the value comes from the enjoyment of the game. "Not wasting time" on terms of not wasting entertainment time. Leisure time is not infinite especially if you have kids. Also many people likely spend their time learning while playing runescape. When I was in college I often afkd something while doing homework. Runescape is the ultimate sandbox multi task style game.
5:01 mod woof
We’re Ll just approaching thirty and need to prioritize the time we do spend in game imho
im 28 with a wife and 2 kids and a job. its afkscape or uninstallscape, not down for those sweaty tick sessions. i just wanna have a chill sesh in my downtime
Yeah no you gotta let those things go if you wanna be a true osrs gamer
@@Theviewerdude ha. No.
I think if osrs doesn't cater to us oldies the game is going in the tank. I wouldn't worry too much man. Those chinese investors want long term growth!
What's also come with the spreadsheet nerds is how they follow them like a religion and get really toxic about it
I straight up left a cc I was in for years all because I thought certain gear was better which it clearly was in my experience and my own testing of it, but that DPS calc showed it wasn't, and a few of these dudes would argue about it ENDLESSLY and constantly bring it up whenever I said anything in chat and just get really rude and personal with their attacks. It's not an uncommon occurence either, some really strangely toxic people on this game
What about the fish sack for the prestigious item list!
If you go and look up the old players like Zarfot and Foot they were the micro efficient tick manipulating people pre eoc then you had people like Suomi who was macro efficient just playing the game a lot taking donations or whatever else
I can't say which for sure, but I'd rather not have future content be required to know a mechanic, that you don't have any idea of knowing, outside of the game's given guidance to get you to even know what a 'tick' is. It's why I've heard movement is clunky in RuneScape to even play for some people, or how it's clunky to do certain actions, due to this tick system indirectly.
Even if developers acknowledged their 'mistake' as something to be okay with, I don't know why mixing herbs, cutting trees and then clicking a fishing spot would correlate to someone a more active/efficient method of training, unless you really read up, read tons of guides and know the game, like the Missingo glitch of Pokemon allowing you to have infinite items at 11th or 13th inventory spot, after talking to an old man.
Only way I'd say it would be good, if Jagex actually developed items intended to use to mechanic, like for fishing to be able to get faster XP rates. It could even be the same action/clicks you do, but something that actually makes sense and can be taught by the game to get you to understand ticks. It rewards a more active play, but offers you the option to be AFK as well.
It came from the players and the game adapted to them.
When a game first comes out everybody is bad at it. Over time the average player gets better and better. And RuneScape has been around a long time now.
Figured out PvP players using some cannon glitch find out and make vid please for ZONTENT
Be your own person mate stop riding odas banana lol
If they start making content where you have to prayer flick or tick eat I’m fucking out. I like pvm to be calm and relaxing. I will never go for an infernal cape.
It’s hard to imagine how anyone can actually enjoy doing these methods. I’m sure some people genuinely do but it’s 99% of peoples idea of hell
I've done a fair amt of tick manipulation for fishing, the main reason is if I hate the alternatives more
Its for efficiency nerds honestly the best way to play rs is just casually in moderation and over time you’l still reach the same goals.
Gaming has evolved its goes beyond Runescape I've seen it with classic WoW the current gaming culture is more toxic and more meta-chasing.
You cant pray flick bandos range atk, just the minions. You tick eat the range atk from graar
I think its more of a player thing. because the same stuff happened in other mmorpgs in the early 2010s. recently they brought back classic wow but the players have become way more elitist than in 2005. for a long time most people blamed it on the dungeon finder and the cataclysm expansion that streamlined all the low level content and removed group quests .all of this happened around the same period as when the runescape community got more elitist.
as you can see resetting the game to the start did not make the community nicer or act like how they did in the 2000s. i heard similar stories from people who played other obscure mmorpgs. the only exception is ff14 but that is only because the game devs go out of their way to punish elitism and the use of weird mechanics and addons.
Personally I blame 50% of this trend caused by release of bonds. Forced and encouraged players to care only about money and efficiency. The game starting to feel more and more like a job then just a game you having fun.
No I don't think this is healthy for the game to encourage sweaty try-harding with tick manipulation and creating new content based on these type of players.
player base for sure we want to push the game
Is tick manipulation an accepted glitch that has been embraced, or is it an engine limitation that cannot be fixed or would require a massive undertaking to fix which would upset the community if it was? While I don't mind tick manipulation for things, I don't like the idea that boss monsters are going to be designed around what is essentially manipulating a limitation in the game engine that was never intended from the start.
you can increase the tickrate theoretically but the entire engine runs on ticks and it would be a massive undertaking. you would also need to improve the servers because with the 4 ticks per second rate they have now going up will put much more strain on the servers that can barely run when they're being ddosed.
If you want to get rid of the tick system in general, you need to rewrite the code for basically the whole game. We're speaking about RuneScape 4 or OSRS 2 at that point.
Thumbs up from anyone who followed the barrows gloves speedrun excel spreadsheet? There's probably more than one but still.
Tick manipulation became dumb when future content was built around it.
The only meaningful blame can be point towards the developers for actively allowing and even encouraging efficiency (tic manipulation in bosses such as the Inferno). Blaming the players for a changed mind-set is meaningless, it is up to the developers to attract the types of crowds they want to attract.
My mindset is the less time I spend doing something the better lol
Same 😂
then why play? this games stupid as hell
@@beingofstrange because the maxcape calls
first things first im the realest!
All I know is my wrist hurts
i love being inefficient catching sharks and cutting magic trees ❤️
I personally dont tick manipulate and im maxed.
Most players i know who do tick manipulate burn out before max.
The turtle wins the race :)
Efficiency within the gaming spectrum has ruined a core part of playing video games in my mind. I have more fun playing a game when I have no clue what is going on rather than hard sweating like it is a job.
Fr, our memories of old rs2 are so vivid because we had no idea what the world had waiting for us, we just played mostly blind and discovered new things every day. The world still felt huge and mysterious
IT came from people not wanting to spend 10 years of their life leveling up again cause Jagex made a dumb descision a.k.a EOC lol
But it was becoming a thing as early as 2006. EoC didn't become a thing until 6 years later.
Yeah not at all. EOC is old compared to efficiency, at least from what I've been experiencing. I used to play for "lowest game time per exp" and it was a year or two before 2009.
tbh you might as well turn a movie on a play a better game and afk skill. youre barely saving any time 2t/3t skilling and just shredding your wrist
@@princelorian this lol i never had a 99 . Ever since i started to afk train ive literally got 7 99s in 4 months. Tbf though i have the freedom to afk 12 hours on mobile while im at work
Nah bro. "No xp waste" was commonly used well before eoc.
This is something that happens in every game, even short single player games. Eventually players will find the most optimal strategy and play that way, even if it means taking all the fun out of the gameplay. This is because most games are goal driven.
It’s the responsibility of a good designer to make sure the most rewarding method is also the most fun method. That’s where RuneScape has heavily failed in the design department.
Efficiency really killed pvp worlds used to have hybrids and melee fights now its all clans with tribrid with ancients and tb no chance...
Gaming in general has gone from fun to everyone tryharding. Just look at what happened to Fortnite and CoD.
I agree 100%. A lot of the communities I've been in were pking or minigames and they've died now. It's all meta gaming and dmm tournies or high profile pkers that pk literally 8hrs a day for a job. Of course they will be the best and have the coordination to tick perfectly, and switch.
It's gotten to the stage where people watch it and don't play it so it's sad in a way.
Dark patterns for sure
I've accepted I wont do inferno. I struggle with Pray flicking immensely and tick manipulation is pretty much out of the picture for me. I PRAY it doesn't become a staple for content going forward. Runescape is not that kind of game and really wasn't meant to be for decades.
I'm totally capable of doing inferno considering all the other stuff I've done in game, but nothing about it even looks enjoyable tbh
After this recently added boss,phantom muffin, I'm kinda worried what the next bosses will look like.
Are you aware of YTMD? If you search by runescape and sort by oldest, there are some real old, golden, stupid memy stuff on there from as early as 2005
Efficiency for me was training at experiments instead of hill giants.
Efficienyscape killed the game for me.
Technically mtx killed it first, and then oldschool got released and I remembered people stopped playing minigames and stopped talking with eachother period.
Then the sweaty pking scene showed up tick abuse prayer flicking etc.
I actually prefer the way combat is ran in rs3. Prayer has an animation, a quick animation but an animation. Magic doesnt suck, one type of melee weapon doesnt dominate all weapons.
And EOC like it or not, just adds gameplay to the gameplay.
That said I play osrs anyways, RS3 has issues and the artstyle is one of them, theres also no challenge at all outside of endgame bosses.
RS HD (just before eoc) was the golden age of RS for me, Summoning was cool, dungeoneering was perfect. The games artstyle looked the best and I believe prayers had those animations just before EOC.
I was one of the few that liked eoc, but jagex never balanced it.
You know you’re a filthy sweat if you have spreadsheets about xp……
Haha I got to admit the only spreadsheet I looked at not from myself but from a youtuber was a slayer one back in 2016 and he had macros through VB and everything. I can't imagine building a macro enabled spreadsheet with VB just for using on countless hrs on a tree or rock in a game that you don't earn a living from (maybe some do streaming)
99% of players I know are afkers who talk about how everyone cares about efficiency these days. Like one percent or less are consistently tick manipulating skills and going for max xp/hr methods.
when this became mainstream, part of the games aura died
growing up playing this game if you was one them people that cared about exp so much you couldnt even talk for a min you was labeled as a No life in my eyes and i deleted them i now wish i didnt do such thing but it is ture
Depends on the community who is talking about tick methods. Yeah im sure some of them are doing it to save time but I think we all know that runescape is not a game that needs to be rushed in terms or progression. I think a lot of tick manipulators do it to improve themselves and see what kind of mechanics they can learn. However, theres also a good chunk of elitist pricks in osrs that do tick manipulation just so they can condescend those who dont. They dont want to be deemed inferior.
Efficiency is killing this game.
I purposefully wear Justiciar over bandos purely for the fashion scape and the amount of guys that run over to Me seething demanding to know why I'm not wearing bis this or that is unreal
Yeah I kinda have to agree, there's a guy in my clan who will ask 'Whats everyone doing' periodically, I've learned to ignore him because the moment you tell him what you are doing he starts aggressively telling you to do it a more 'efficient' way, and if you turn down the advice he gets salty about it as if you've just insulted his mother or something. Real annoying when you just want to chat with people and train the skills you want, the way you want.
@@Robothuck haha omg those guys are the worst. Their life must really suck to be telling you how to play a game that you have free reign to do whatever the fuck you want how you like it! Tell him get stuffed from me
@@mckdogdrums3543 haha that won't be necessary I learned to just ignore him when he asks in the clan chat 'whats everyone doing' pretty sure the only reason he asks is so he can start backseat gaming everyone
Prayer flicking is the worst part of the game. It prevents me from bossing, it's absolutely a terrible mechanic and should not be required to boss. I've basically stopped playing for now because of this dumb mechanic.