I think the cloth bag may have been a bad choice. I imagine most of the air is exhausting through that 30 micron bag instead of through the canister filter (path of least resistance and all). Whereas with a plastic bag all the air would have to exhaust through the canister filter.
@@WoodWorkLIFE I put a plastic trash bag inside my cloth bag. It's a little bit of a pain but the cloth bag protects the plastic bag and the plastic bag doesn't let any dust through.
Nice walkthrough. Like others I especially like the cost discussion. It's a bit of a mind bender. You can spread out the cost if you have parts already, or buy things over time. But when you figure the cost of all of this is in the $600-700 range, and actually closer to $750 really with the HF 2 HP, filter, Rikon impeller and a SDD (vs the smaller one you have here) - there are some nice options you can get for that commercially or via Ebay. Jet, Grizzly/ShopFox etc. Now if you talk to Pentz he'll say you need really 1000 CFM at the tool for fine particulate. Not the 400 CFM we usually talk about. To do that, you're more looking at a well north of $1k investment. So the question is how much can you do all at once. Options from ClearVue and Oneida, even the personal/small shop systems (think 1800 on ClearVue or Mini-Gorilla or V-System on Oneida) are in the $1300 upwards of over $2000. What can you afford...the big question. I don't even think it's the oft used "how much is your health worth". Something is better than nothing, and these DIY systems are certainly better than nothing.
Most people don't think about pressure losses due to duct length and turns. Buying a HF dust collector and finding out what you really need for a dust collector makes your growth path make sense. As your shop grows, so can your dust collector. Great video, thanks
I did this same thing to my harbor freight system as well with a few differences. I went with the cyclone xl and went with the 6in pipping for the main run then went down to 4in pipe towards the tool then blast gate to flex hose. I did not change the impeller. I did the filter on top allowing the small particles to fall in bag. I will say tht this is a huge upgrade from its original design. When i use the flex hose to get dust/chips off of floor it is tough to keep the hose from “grabbing” the floor.
Bandsaw collection 14 inch piece of 2 inch pipe put the open end of pipe at a angle and allow the bandsaw blade to cut it . Then it can be pulled out when you need to open the lower door.
I'm not sure about your other machines, but on the flex hose you should swap the orientation of the blast gate so the screw is always on the machine/collection side. On most of those metal gates there's some slop in the gate that creates a small gap on the side of the screw when you tighten it that can create a small gap/leak robbing you of CFM.
I have a Grizzly 2hp DC that I picked up off of eBay for $50. A commercial wood shop was selling it so they didn't have much to gain by selling it for more. I built a Thien baffle inside a 55 gallon plastic drum. I still need to upgrade to a canister filter as the Powertec bag is probably not doing a great job. But I'm not using the Dust collector everyday. A Thien baffle is a great alternative to the Oneida cyclone and I pulled the drum out of a dumpster at work a few years ago. I guess I just lucked out getting mine set up for around $100. My DC peaks at 24 amp on 120v. I have it plugged into a 20 amp receptacle and have only popped the breaker a couple of times when I've forgotten to turn off a fan or heater in the shop.
One more cheap upgrade for you. Order a Gamma Seal lid (15 bucks) and find an empty 5 gallon bucket. Use this combination instead of the final cloth bag under the Wynn filter. The Gamma Seal consists of a removable screw on lid and a mating ring that snaps on to a bucket. You can cut the center out of the lid and fasten it to the bottom of the Wynn filter. I used silicone caulk and a handful of sheet metal screws. Then you can remove, dump, and re-attach the bucket in about 30 seconds when you dump your chip barrel. Much faster and easier than fiddling with the cloth bag, which will develop holes when the mice get into your compressor shed. (My D/C and compressor are both in a lean-to, outside my shop. Mice made a nest in the original filter bag during a period when I was not doing much shop work)
I full heartedly agree. I have a Gama Seal collection bin for my shop vac cyclone and then the dust bin on my collector filter. as well as what others have said about the chip blocker removal and eliminate and the flex hose.
I'm looking at installing a similar system with a different 2hp dust collector. By my calculations, it is still probably cheaper and may fit better in my shop than a commercial dust cyclone. What worries me is installing the motor/impeller assembly horizontally and if it will have an impact on the bearings; it was designed to run vertically. One comment on the cloth bag, as others have suggested, the bag may negate the filter but you could replace it with a plastic bucket instead of a plastic bag as it is sturdier and airtight forcing the air to exit through your filter.
Air is going to take the path of least resistance right? Doesn't that mean it will skip the expensive Wynn filter and push back through the fabric bag?
Very good review of the Air filtration for your shop. It would be great if you had a diagram of the entire system with parts changes and tools at the end.
I have the same cyclone kit, love it! I need to install some sort of sight window into the barrel so I know when to change it. Also I think if you oriented then body of the unit that holds the filter so it’s in a straight line to the impeller exit and hard plum them, you’ll pick up some efficiency.
For some of us, a 'real' cyclone isn't really an option. The sub-panel for my shop only had one slot available. So, I couldn't add another 240v circuit that would allow me to run a 3hp cyclone. (Yes, I could have added another sub-panel, but that would have required increasing the size of the breaker going to the shop's sub-panel, which would have required running a larger cable to handle the increased amperage, which would have required a couple hundred feet of trenching, etc.) That reduced the options to something that can run on 120v. There are several single stage dust collectors on the market that, like the HF, run on normal household current. There are precious few true cyclones that will. That leaves an upgrade like was demonstrated in the video.
Technically this is still cheaper than even the cheapest cyclone. It just close enough that it makes you wonder. But ya, my old show was the same deal.
One of the things that this video is helping me to understand is that the big $2,500 systems must be a very profitable venture. They are selling a few simple components: an electric motor, blower and housing, conical chip separator, Wen filter, various mounting and connecting hardware. When is Harbor Freight going to add a chip separator to their system? Going to blow the market up...
That would be ridiculous if they just made something like that. The big manufacturers do have much bigger motors, better engineered impellers and the systems are engineered as a whole (much more efficient) on top of all that the whole system is air tight. No matter what I try this system always loses a bit of suction.
You need to calculate the value of being able to customize your installation thereby saving floor space. Something the premade setups may or may not allow you to do.
Really great setup, and basically my exact setup with a few exceptions that others have mentioned. I did a ton of research in customizing my system, so wanted to share. 1) Change out that flex hose and the stock separator and just run a long bend 90 (preferably pvc for the smooth transition) straight into your filter. If you search there is a lumberjocks journal where someone tests out each individual component and both of these are big culprits in reducing air flow. 2) Just build a dust pan on the bottom of the filter with a plugged hole for a vacuum sweep. Saves room, and I think you'll find that barely anything ends up in there anyway. Wynn even makes one too. 3) Cut out the chip guard from the inlet. You shouldn't get chips through there now, and it also reduces air flow. 4) In general, keep your flex hose sections as short as possible, and ideally limit them to the last few feet before the tool (if needed). 5) Any 90 degree turns in your ducting should be done with two 45's separated by a few feet. This will also help with air flow.
Trying to understand the grizzly bag attached to the cannister filter. Wouldn't that undercut the cannister filter? The plastic bags are prone to damage but I think the idea is that they are non-permeable. I wonder if attaching something more like a small plastic drum would work better. You shouldn't have much dust left at this point so it's not likely you'd need to have a lot of access to it for frequent changes.
I'm thinking about putting this same kit together. What kit do you think would be about the same cost if you're buying it from square one? For about the same money?
That is a tough one. Laguna has a nice one for similar money (but a little more) Rikin has one too. I haven’t personally tested all of them so I can’t speak to the results.
Your total cost calculations doesn't even include the impeller. I'm glad you're talking about how this is in a very good deal when all said and done. It's a cool system
That is a tough one. What would you consider budget? For less than $500 the unit from Rockler is very good, you could also look at something used from Rikon or new from Grizzly. They are all basically the same under $500 as far as parts and motors and whatnot, I think it is more about the features you need. The smaller impeller on the HF model though is a serious hinderance in performance and is a pretty expensive fix.
There's a better way. Put your dust collector in a trailor or pocket house outside of the shop and run a hose in to the homerun. That eliminates most noise and air pollution in a shop.
Just an FYI for anyone wanting to upgrade their Harbor Freight dust collector fan. You can now also by a fan from Wen Tools. It's the same specs as the Rikon fan but only costs $35 and shipping is free, compared to $120 with shipping for the Rikon. The part number is 3403-22.
Is that Bostich pancake compressor your shop compressor, or do you have a beast somewhere hidden in the corner? Thinking of switching out my old cheapie 10gal horizontal tank compressor for one of the smaller compressors for portability when I need it and to use around the shop for the little bit I use air for. Figured for extra capacity i can plumb it into my old tank if need be.
@@WoodWorkLIFE Thanks. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but looking at the Fortress unit from HF. Need the portability and higher pressure to fill up motorhome tires on top of general shop use.
Great video, well done. Question, at around the 7:30 min mark when you vacuum up the dust, and then shut off the DC, it seems there is a sound in the background, as the DC motor slows down. It sounds like there is a squeak as the motor is slowing to a stop. Is that correct? My Craftex 2hp (converted to 2 stage with Oneida SDD) is making a similar sound (if I heard yours right). Interested if yours is doing that and if you've done anything to correct it. Thanks.
I have a harbor freight dust collector set up similar to yours, I am interested in upgrading my impeller, do you have a part number and where you purchased it, thanks
I got HF dust collector and trying to switch to 2 Stage. How did you connect HF Dust collector (5 inch) to 4 inch cyclone. What adapter/reducer did you use?
I did flip the nozzle as per your advise and that’s an amazing tip! By the way, how’s the performance of the cyclone after flipping the top nozzle. I see the pipe is around 1 feet deep inside the cyclone and now its towards the top. Is it throwing lot of dust in the compressor outlet. Just checking and appreciate your response!
@@WoodWorkLIFE I am building a shop that will have a band saw, 10" miter, table saw, planner, scroll saw, jointer, and 12 x 33 wood lathe. What do you recommend?
There are several videos on RUclips showing the before and after amp draw for the Rikon impeller upgrade. IIRC, it adds about 10% to the amp draw upon start up, less than that when running. So, it MIGHT have some effect on the motor or bearings. However, most expect that any difference in longevity will be negligible.
I think the cloth bag may have been a bad choice. I imagine most of the air is exhausting through that 30 micron bag instead of through the canister filter (path of least resistance and all). Whereas with a plastic bag all the air would have to exhaust through the canister filter.
You might be right...good thought.
I came to comment this as well. You're negating the badass canister filter for sure.
Heavy duty plastic sacks for the Wynn. (See what I did there..?) Clamped, sealed.
@@WoodWorkLIFE I put a plastic trash bag inside my cloth bag. It's a little bit of a pain but the cloth bag protects the plastic bag and the plastic bag doesn't let any dust through.
@@diyVT that insanely makes sense, I might try that. I have some plastic bags.
Nice walkthrough. Like others I especially like the cost discussion. It's a bit of a mind bender.
You can spread out the cost if you have parts already, or buy things over time. But when you figure the cost of all of this is in the $600-700 range, and actually closer to $750 really with the HF 2 HP, filter, Rikon impeller and a SDD (vs the smaller one you have here) - there are some nice options you can get for that commercially or via Ebay. Jet, Grizzly/ShopFox etc. Now if you talk to Pentz he'll say you need really 1000 CFM at the tool for fine particulate. Not the 400 CFM we usually talk about. To do that, you're more looking at a well north of $1k investment. So the question is how much can you do all at once. Options from ClearVue and Oneida, even the personal/small shop systems (think 1800 on ClearVue or Mini-Gorilla or V-System on Oneida) are in the $1300 upwards of over $2000.
What can you afford...the big question. I don't even think it's the oft used "how much is your health worth". Something is better than nothing, and these DIY systems are certainly better than nothing.
Very well said
Most people don't think about pressure losses due to duct length and turns. Buying a HF dust collector and finding out what you really need for a dust collector makes your growth path make sense. As your shop grows, so can your dust collector. Great video, thanks
Great point! Thanks for watching.
I did this same thing to my harbor freight system as well with a few differences. I went with the cyclone xl and went with the 6in pipping for the main run then went down to 4in pipe towards the tool then blast gate to flex hose. I did not change the impeller. I did the filter on top allowing the small particles to fall in bag. I will say tht this is a huge upgrade from its original design. When i use the flex hose to get dust/chips off of floor it is tough to keep the hose from “grabbing” the floor.
That's great, the impeller makes a big difference
I may have to do that as well.
Bandsaw collection 14 inch piece of 2 inch pipe put the open end of pipe at a angle and allow the bandsaw blade to cut it . Then it can be pulled out when you need to open the lower door.
The pipe runs into the blade underneath the table at a angle. When the saw is running the blade under the table is in the slot of this 12 inch pipe.
Glad to see your report in the process of installing a dust collection system that mirrors what you have done.
Turned out great
I'm not sure about your other machines, but on the flex hose you should swap the orientation of the blast gate so the screw is always on the machine/collection side. On most of those metal gates there's some slop in the gate that creates a small gap on the side of the screw when you tighten it that can create a small gap/leak robbing you of CFM.
Good call, I'll have to try that out.
I have a Grizzly 2hp DC that I picked up off of eBay for $50. A commercial wood shop was selling it so they didn't have much to gain by selling it for more. I built a Thien baffle inside a 55 gallon plastic drum. I still need to upgrade to a canister filter as the Powertec bag is probably not doing a great job. But I'm not using the Dust collector everyday. A Thien baffle is a great alternative to the Oneida cyclone and I pulled the drum out of a dumpster at work a few years ago. I guess I just lucked out getting mine set up for around $100. My DC peaks at 24 amp on 120v. I have it plugged into a 20 amp receptacle and have only popped the breaker a couple of times when I've forgotten to turn off a fan or heater in the shop.
One more cheap upgrade for you. Order a Gamma Seal lid (15 bucks) and find an empty 5 gallon bucket. Use this combination instead of the final cloth bag under the Wynn filter. The Gamma Seal consists of a removable screw on lid and a mating ring that snaps on to a bucket. You can cut the center out of the lid and fasten it to the bottom of the Wynn filter. I used silicone caulk and a handful of sheet metal screws. Then you can remove, dump, and re-attach the bucket in about 30 seconds when you dump your chip barrel. Much faster and easier than fiddling with the cloth bag, which will develop holes when the mice get into your compressor shed. (My D/C and compressor are both in a lean-to, outside my shop. Mice made a nest in the original filter bag during a period when I was not doing much shop work)
I full heartedly agree. I have a Gama Seal collection bin for my shop vac cyclone and then the dust bin on my collector filter. as well as what others have said about the chip blocker removal and eliminate and the flex hose.
I'll have to check those out
I'm looking at installing a similar system with a different 2hp dust collector. By my calculations, it is still probably cheaper and may fit better in my shop than a commercial dust cyclone. What worries me is installing the motor/impeller assembly horizontally and if it will have an impact on the bearings; it was designed to run vertically. One comment on the cloth bag, as others have suggested, the bag may negate the filter but you could replace it with a plastic bucket instead of a plastic bag as it is sturdier and airtight forcing the air to exit through your filter.
i just double checked, my bag is 2.5nm, its the $50 Grizz bag.
Your pricing is me explaining a project cost to my wife 😂
Ha, so true. Gotta justify that spend.
Put the remote control on a breakaway lanyard hang around neck . Always with you.
Air is going to take the path of least resistance right? Doesn't that mean it will skip the expensive Wynn filter and push back through the fabric bag?
You and other commenters are right...damnit I need to get a plastic bag in there.
Very good review of the Air filtration for your shop. It would be great if you had a diagram of the entire system with parts changes and tools at the end.
I'll do a blog post on this later
@@WoodWorkLIFE Did you ever publish the blog post? I'm trying to figure out which fitting for the dust collector to dust deputy. 5" to 4"?
Install a 5 gallon bucket to the bottom of the canister filter with a gamma seal lid. That bag at the bottom is blowing out fine dust.
Don't forget to tape the long seams in the piping.
Awesome job Rick! 😃👍🏻👊🏻
Thanks Fred
I have the same cyclone kit, love it! I need to install some sort of sight window into the barrel so I know when to change it. Also I think if you oriented then body of the unit that holds the filter so it’s in a straight line to the impeller exit and hard plum them, you’ll pick up some efficiency.
Ya, I am thinking about doing the same thing.
Nice video, Rick! Having done the upgrades, gotten a smaller cyclone, and then a ClearVue.. it's definitely worth spending a bit more, if you have it.
Ya, that is the impression I got after finishing it. It turned out well but I felt like I was missing something.
For some of us, a 'real' cyclone isn't really an option. The sub-panel for my shop only had one slot available. So, I couldn't add another 240v circuit that would allow me to run a 3hp cyclone. (Yes, I could have added another sub-panel, but that would have required increasing the size of the breaker going to the shop's sub-panel, which would have required running a larger cable to handle the increased amperage, which would have required a couple hundred feet of trenching, etc.) That reduced the options to something that can run on 120v.
There are several single stage dust collectors on the market that, like the HF, run on normal household current. There are precious few true cyclones that will. That leaves an upgrade like was demonstrated in the video.
Technically this is still cheaper than even the cheapest cyclone. It just close enough that it makes you wonder. But ya, my old show was the same deal.
One of the things that this video is helping me to understand is that the big $2,500 systems must be a very profitable venture. They are selling a few simple components: an electric motor, blower and housing, conical chip separator, Wen filter, various mounting and connecting hardware. When is Harbor Freight going to add a chip separator to their system? Going to blow the market up...
That would be ridiculous if they just made something like that. The big manufacturers do have much bigger motors, better engineered impellers and the systems are engineered as a whole (much more efficient) on top of all that the whole system is air tight. No matter what I try this system always loses a bit of suction.
You need to calculate the value of being able to customize your installation thereby saving floor space. Something the premade setups may or may not allow you to do.
Not a bad idea
Really great setup, and basically my exact setup with a few exceptions that others have mentioned. I did a ton of research in customizing my system, so wanted to share. 1) Change out that flex hose and the stock separator and just run a long bend 90 (preferably pvc for the smooth transition) straight into your filter. If you search there is a lumberjocks journal where someone tests out each individual component and both of these are big culprits in reducing air flow. 2) Just build a dust pan on the bottom of the filter with a plugged hole for a vacuum sweep. Saves room, and I think you'll find that barely anything ends up in there anyway. Wynn even makes one too. 3) Cut out the chip guard from the inlet. You shouldn't get chips through there now, and it also reduces air flow. 4) In general, keep your flex hose sections as short as possible, and ideally limit them to the last few feet before the tool (if needed). 5) Any 90 degree turns in your ducting should be done with two 45's separated by a few feet. This will also help with air flow.
Ya I thought about that. I could use som 5" pvc and make a smoother transition.
Trying to understand the grizzly bag attached to the cannister filter. Wouldn't that undercut the cannister filter? The plastic bags are prone to damage but I think the idea is that they are non-permeable. I wonder if attaching something more like a small plastic drum would work better. You shouldn't have much dust left at this point so it's not likely you'd need to have a lot of access to it for frequent changes.
By turning the filter and housing upside down, don't you have the dust funnel pointing upward and collecting dust all around the perimeter?
I'm thinking about putting this same kit together. What kit do you think would be about the same cost if you're buying it from square one? For about the same money?
That is a tough one. Laguna has a nice one for similar money (but a little more) Rikin has one too. I haven’t personally tested all of them so I can’t speak to the results.
One can always say how much do you value your lungs. Great job, I also need to upgrade my dust collection. Thank You
Can you share a link to get uograde impeller like yours?
Your total cost calculations doesn't even include the impeller. I'm glad you're talking about how this is in a very good deal when all said and done. It's a cool system
It's a cool system, the price is just a little out there. Your 75-85% to a pro cyclone.
I did not catch the impeller upgrade name and where to buy
It’s in the description. Comes from Rikon parts.
So if I were buying a new dust collection system, which one would you recommend for a budget line?
That is a tough one. What would you consider budget? For less than $500 the unit from Rockler is very good, you could also look at something used from Rikon or new from Grizzly. They are all basically the same under $500 as far as parts and motors and whatnot, I think it is more about the features you need. The smaller impeller on the HF model though is a serious hinderance in performance and is a pretty expensive fix.
@@WoodWorkLIFE I am looking for less than $700 if I can.
Probably this one on sale amzn.to/3rOGIym
There's a better way. Put your dust collector in a trailor or pocket house outside of the shop and run a hose in to the homerun. That eliminates most noise and air pollution in a shop.
Just an FYI for anyone wanting to upgrade their Harbor Freight dust collector fan. You can now also by a fan from Wen Tools. It's the same specs as the Rikon fan but only costs $35 and shipping is free, compared to $120 with shipping for the Rikon. The part number is 3403-22.
Matthew Hina I cannot find WEN tool part number 3403-22 anywhere. Do you have a link? Thank you
I have a dust collector like your original. Would just changing the impeller be viable and improve suction?
Yes but, the bag packing with sawdust will reduce your airflow significantly over time. Thus the cyclone and the higher surface area filter.
Is that Bostich pancake compressor your shop compressor, or do you have a beast somewhere hidden in the corner? Thinking of switching out my old cheapie 10gal horizontal tank compressor for one of the smaller compressors for portability when I need it and to use around the shop for the little bit I use air for. Figured for extra capacity i can plumb it into my old tank if need be.
That's all I use. I only fire a few pin nails every now and again. I'd like to put a bigger oiled compressor in here soon.
@@WoodWorkLIFE Thanks. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but looking at the Fortress unit from HF. Need the portability and higher pressure to fill up motorhome tires on top of general shop use.
Great video, well done.
Question, at around the 7:30 min mark when you vacuum up the dust, and then shut off the DC, it seems there is a sound in the background, as the DC motor slows down. It sounds like there is a squeak as the motor is slowing to a stop. Is that correct?
My Craftex 2hp (converted to 2 stage with Oneida SDD) is making a similar sound (if I heard yours right). Interested if yours is doing that and if you've done anything to correct it. Thanks.
I think there is a great video on centrifugal switches that may explain that...also, its a cheapo DC, probably just a shit bearing.
I have the older green harbor freight dust collector. Do you have the link for where toy can find the impeller?
www.rikonparts.com/product/60-200
@@WoodWorkLIFE appreciate it.
I have a harbor freight dust collector set up similar to yours, I am interested in upgrading my impeller, do you have a part number and where you purchased it, thanks
www.rikonparts.com/product/60-200
I got HF dust collector and trying to switch to 2 Stage. How did you connect HF Dust collector (5 inch) to 4 inch cyclone. What adapter/reducer did you use?
If you remove the top nozzle and flip it over it works as a 5" adapter...(pro tip)
@@WoodWorkLIFE Sorry, I didn’t get it, I dont see a top nozzle with my Unit.
I got it, thanks for the tip!
I did flip the nozzle as per your advise and that’s an amazing tip! By the way, how’s the performance of the cyclone after flipping the top nozzle. I see the pipe is around 1 feet deep inside the cyclone and now its towards the top. Is it throwing lot of dust in the compressor outlet. Just checking and appreciate your response!
Nice setup. Got a link for the Rikon impeller part ?
www.rikonparts.com/product/60-200
a long 90° would be a better option to the hard 90°. it would not add to much to the space and would increase your flow better.
good call, seems to be sucking sufficiently for now but I will look to optimize for efficiency as I use it.
Hi, good video. What alternatives do you recommend of you don't already have anything?
Depends on how much capacity you need.
@@WoodWorkLIFE I am building a shop that will have a band saw, 10" miter, table saw, planner, scroll saw, jointer, and 12 x 33 wood lathe. What do you recommend?
@@luis.valencia the lathe is going to need a ton of suction to do well. Buy once cry once, go with a cleavue or a big Laguna cyclone.
Thank you. Link for the impeller upgrade?
www.rikonparts.com/product/60-200
Does the stock harbor freight have enough horsies to spin that larger impeller safely?
Ya it's a "2hp" motor
There are several videos on RUclips showing the before and after amp draw for the Rikon impeller upgrade. IIRC, it adds about 10% to the amp draw upon start up, less than that when running. So, it MIGHT have some effect on the motor or bearings. However, most expect that any difference in longevity will be negligible.
Is that a 15 amp remote lamp switch on the saw?
You got it
Dust does not puff out of that bag?
It does when its on.
The impeller cost another $100. You might as well buy the Wen that comes with a 12" impeller.