Copenhagen is Great ... but it's not Amsterdam
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- Watch this video ad-free on Nebula: nebula.tv/videos/not-just-bik...
Copenhagen is a great city, but it's not Amsterdam ... or any other Dutch city for that matter. This video explores the differences in street design taken by Copenhagen and citites in the Netherlands, to discover some of the finer points of what makes for great urban design.
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Historical photos of Amsterdam are from the Amsterdam Beeldbank:
archief.amsterdam/beeldbank/
archief.amsterdam/beeldbank/?...
A map of all of the public trees in Amsterdam is available here:
maps.amsterdam.nl/bomen/?LANG=en
Mikael from Copenhagenize made a "response video" to this video:
ruclips.net/video/0Ggh1Jx7--o/видео.html
At least, I'm told it's a response video. I thought you were supposed to actually watch the video before you respond to it, but I'm new to this whole RUclips thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
6 minutes in and he agrees with you. Dutch cities are better for biking but seem like an alien planet.
@Not Just Bikes You missed the better pun: It’s time to Amsterdamnit!
He may be the most accredited urbanist - according to the nauseous first third of his video - but you have more interesting things to say about urbanism. 🤷🏽♂️ I was following him long before finding your channel... but he doesn't deserve the free advertisement you're giving him here.
OMG it's so funny, he really made it somewhat personal XD
The way he even manages to make it about religion is particularly obnoxious. Maybe he has a poster about that for sale too?
So basically, Copenhagen is one step ahead of everyone else, but Amsterdam is three steps ahead. But to urban planners, it's easier to take one step at a time than three at once.
its level one
Honestly when I was in Copenhagen, I couldn't believe that some people hold that as the gold standard for bicycle friendliness. As said in this video, most of the cycling infrastructure in Copenhagen just feels painted or bolted on. Unlike in any Dutch city, where cyclist are included in street design from the beginning with safety and usability in mind.
KevinKickMusic I’m visiting Anchorage, Alaska right now. Its nothing compared to Amsterdam but still among the best I’ve seen in the USA
@@FalconsEye58094
I don't think many municipalities in America will be prepared to reserve the kind of money required to bring their cities to the kind of cycle friendliness as here in the Netherlands.
@@KevinKickChannel So one thing the Dutch say is that it doesn't take much money. Or, it would if you try to fix everything quickly. But they changed the standards, and then as streets are maintained they get re-done to the new standard. You were going to do maintenance anyway, you just do it differently this time. So the 'bad' Dutch streets typically haven't been retouched in the past 30-40 years. Modern Amsterdam is the result of 30+ years of gradual improvements.
*People arguing whether Copenhagen or Amsterdam is better for biking*
Me: living in the US👁👄👁
Mood
How can you argue with that, the netherlands is superior in every aspect
Me: living in the fucking Philippines 👁💧👄💧👁
@@lovelypeaches4339 Me living in India, I have the experience to navigate my bicycle at full speed at an intersection with 200 two wheelers and 100 four wheelers. So Copenhagen and its shared lane.
the us sucks
I'm now feeling patriotic for The Netherlands even though I'm not Dutch
Its not about patriotism, its about getting the facts straight, We the Dutch we don´t have to boast about our cycling infrastructure.
Its already good for what it is.
Copenhagen would benefit to see Dutch road planners take on Copenhagen's infrastructure, not just cycling also pedestrians and cars.
And perhaps more greenery would do well for Copenhagen 🤷🏽♂️..
The fact that Copenhagen has a cycling infrastructure that is widely used is a good thing, but keep improving overtime to boost up the safety.
@@Zoza15 I like dutch patriotism or their love to their country which isn't boastful or condescending but rather humble and quiet
@@appleslover I live in The Netherlands and sometimes i do think we are boasting about it because only we have the best thing here.
Never in my life would i imagined that cycling here over all of the years was special for other countries worldwide as we dont even blink at our cycling lanes because we are so used to it.
I just wish other countries could have the best like we have or better.
If The Netherlands can aid to that then you are more then welcome ask for our help.
@@Zoza15 thank you for your nice words, I wish I was a president or a prime minister to implement policies influenced by The Dutch experience, but alas! I already lost faith in my country and its politicians, and also there isn't much time to spare in life, so I am thinking of moving to the Netherlands continue my education and live the rest of my life
But if there's anything can stop that from happening it would be crowdedness and some feeling of alienation.
Again thank you for responding
haha
You are 100% spot on. I am a daily bicyclist in Copenhagen, but when i travel in the Netherlands i feel like a genius when i am using there bicycle infrastructure.
It's like another planet. All copenhageners should experience this, so we can get to the next level.
I'm also a daily cyclists in Copenhagen. What I noticed in Amsterdam was really narrow bike paths where it was impossible to overtake one another (the reason why Dutch cyclists use the sidewalk instead). Really poor pavement (uneven tiles etc) which force you to use bikes with wider tyres. And constant change in design. Similar to the video guy's criticism of the new wide bike bridge and the following intersection which anyone in Copenhagen agrees on is stupid. We should't look to the Dutch and their constantly changing design options. Also I didn't see many of these protected intersections in Amsterdam.
What was nice in Amsterdam was the big parking facilities and the lack of cars on the smaller streets in the centre.
But I'm sure Dutch infrastructure is much better outside Amsterdam.
@@frederikcopenhagen Seems like nationalism has the etter of you. What you say aout Amsterdam is totally untrue. Amsterdam is not just far superior to Copenhagen. Amsterdam trully is like cycling on another planet compared to Copenhagen. In Amsterdam I basically never have to ride on the road. I always feel 100% safe. There are non stop protected cycle paths. And not just in Amsterdam but nation wide. Unlike in Denmark. Sure Amsterdam is crowded but that is what you get in a global city with such great cycling infrastructure. It is ecasue Amsterdam cycling infrastutcure is so succesfull. People go out and cycle. You are never alone. No prolem at all ecasue the red asfalt makes everything very clear Where you are supposed to go etc. You are always protected. And when I want to overtaken someone, no problem at all. Copenhagen is not even in the same league as Amsterdam. Amsterdam is so much etter that the two cities are not comparable at all.
@@hansolo2121 My comment is as biased as this video. At least I have spent far longer time in Amsterdam than he has spent in Copenhagen.
Again, Amsterdam has decent infrastructure. It's often inadequate and clearly misses a link across the Ij, wider bike paths and bike paths on many streets where there are none today, like Van Wroustraat. But I'm sure infrastructure is much better in Utrech, Groningen etc. I haven't been there.
@@appa609 We're just trying to leisurely get from A to B. We're not racing in the Tour de France. If you want to travel fast then get in a car.
And while going to the next level, some trees will also make the city more beautiful then it already is ;)
I have lived and cycled in different cities in Spain, UK, Ireland, Germany and the Netherlands. No place like the Netherlands. Period. End of the story. Not just cycling infrastructure in cities but between cities. You can cycle from one corner of the country to another without sharing a road with cars. You have bridges, tunnels, separated lanes on roundabouts, lanes that run parallel to main roads just for cyclist...and another very important thing is how respectful drivers are towards cyclists as, is quite likely, that the driver is a cyclist too. Couples cycle holding hands, people carry anything on bikes, mothers (and fathers) carry one kid front, another back and two shopping bags hanging from the handle bar shines or rains (and it does rain here, a lot). If you have never cycled in the Netherlands, I would invite you to do so as seeing is believing. You will be impressed.
I love the details of couples holding hands and carrying anything on a bike. And it's true I've done both without even thinking about it! The craziest thing I carried on a bike was either a secondhand office chair on a normal bike. Or a 2 person bed frame with a cargo bike. The chair was a bit odd to do but did feel save from traffic.
Everyone in Copenhagen basically does everything you just said.
@@REAL6 Also riding on decent cycling infrastructure from city to city, and to add to that, from village to village? Have you seen the bus stop at 02:40 - 02:50? The passengers are stepping directly from the bus on the bike lane ! Or take the Inderhavnsbroen, or as Mikael Colville-Andersen calls it: "Stupid, Stupid Bridge" . Such a bridge and the aforementioned bus stop would be unthinkable in the Netherlands, because of well thought-out mandatory criteria. Copenhagen topping the Copenhagen index is a joke.
@artodisque Fair, but in many places in West Europe there are many towns not very far from each other or incorporated into one big city. England for example has many areas with towns every few miles where you could have cycle paths running between them, especially around cities like in London where many of the Boroughs would be seperately named towns in the Randstad, even though it is all one connected city. On google maps the distance from Mitcham to Bromley for example is only a bit more than from Delft to Zoetermeer, but those first are in my experience considered way less 'seperate cities' than the second, even though they are both subdivisions of a greater urban area.
And by stringing together short (
@artodisque Denmark is smaller and flatter than the Netherlands. So there flies your argument
One thing i wanna mention is that when getting your drivers license in Danmark. The schools really emphasize cyclist safety. Not checking right shoulder when turning right, is almost instant failure of the test.
Its a very big point of attention for all drivers
Watching this as a cyclists in Midwest America like: "ALL OF THIS IS AMAZING!"
I’ve biked around in both cities and as a New Yorker, I found the sense of order both satisfying and stressful. Satisfying that such a system could exist. Stressful because I was pretty much a caveman on wheels screwing up all that nice order. 😅
Haha yep :(
Watching it as someone in the mountains on the east coast.......I need to move. Forget public transit even just riding my bike gives me a panic attack around here. I hate that we were told as kids to watch for cars instead of the other way around....
Well
@@kaosine2877 i mean as kids you wont be driving cars haha
As a danish person, I think our Danish infra-structure should be the bare minimum everywhere.
And I hope the people in charge in my country will be open to learn from the Dutch.
The lack of trees is so odd.
@@weetikissa But this is mostly a problem during winter when trees lose their leaves right? Or am I forgetting something here?
@@weetikissa In the darkest part of winter we only have a 1 hour difference of sunlight with Copenhagen. That difference isn't that big really, but it's funny that it warrants a different philosophy.
It's the whole Denmark. Absolutely horrible place because of lack of trees. Constant wind and no shade from sunshine. Yup, I've cycled there.
Yeah, when I visited Copenhagen I found it a very stark contrast to my home city (in the Netherlands). It's just a concrete block
Copenhagen is a northern city built on an island in a very windy sea. Many trees don't like this.
I am always so confused when Copenhagen gets called cycle haven, as a Dutchman i only saw mostly chaos with some scary streets
ja man. geen middenbermen en straten die net zo breed zijn als lang.
vooral als je kijkt naar andere nederlandse steden kijkt, de kleinere steden zijn zo veilig voor fietsen, in amersfoort kan je van het centrum de stad uit fiesten met maar 1 plek om over te steken.
Hé Jan. Mijn achternaam is Jansma. Dat is ‘t bewijs!
Ik heb nooit gerealiseerd hoe goed Nederlandse wegen zijn totdat ik op wegen in andere landen reed en zag hoe het verkeer daar was.
@MrVeggie247 Pretty much everyone in the Netherlands cycles you dipshit, including the people with cars.
I have been cycling in many "bike friendly" cities in Switserland, Germany and also Copenhagen. They all have some nice dedicated bike lanes. However, whenever you get to an intersection they just give up and say, now you have to figure it out by yourself. The key element of the biking environment in the Netherlands is that even at intersections there are protected dedicated crossings with often seperate traffic lights for bikers. You never have to figure out how to cross, its always instantly clear.
8:54 "I have enough trouble to get approval for a painted bicycle gutter, how can I explain THIS!?" Solid Gold. The USA is so far far behind this in every way.
the paint on the road says "bike-street , cars are guests"
@@qedqubit Thanks! I was wondering what that means!
So is austrila and canada basically the big 3 of the english lanuage that isnt england lol
@@JimboRustles I'm so happy helmets aren't only not mandatory, but even recommended _not_ to wear in the Netherlands
I was cycling with a friend who's a bit overly careful of things, she wore a helmet while cycling, and we got stopped by the police!
Neither of us did anything wrong, they just wanted her to know it's safer to *not* wear a helmet while cycling. That was it, but I was so glad to hear that from them!
@@EduardoGonzalez-tc2dg the UK is really crap too
2:47... Getting out of that bus, right on the bicycle lane *ouch*
Yep, that's a huge part of the reason that cycletracks are "dangerous" in studies that like to be waved around against them, but the solution is obviously to just NOT make it so that bus passengers are getting off directly into the bikeway.
@@snoopyloopy It isn't the best solution, but is safer than having the bikes going around the bus into the lane for the cars. If you don't have the space for the safest option, an island bus stop, this is actually the solution that will give you the least amount of deadly or very harmful accidents. It may be a bit counter intuitive, but the research backs it. That said I think they have the space in Copenhagen to upgrade to the best solution in most places.
@@kattkatt744 The bus stop should be moved where the bike path is and the bike path should be going behind the bus stop, same amount of space and small amount of maneuvering for the cyclist, but much better overall.
Yeah, even in Sydney, one of the worst cycling cities in the world, the bike lanes are built around bus stops.
@@Arjay404 I don't get the intention with your comment. I did say an island bus stop would be the best solution. Why you are describing one to me and saying that is what should be done?
The reason why Copenhagen was chosen 'Best Cycling City' is because more people in Denmark are member of a cycling organization, which was one of the criteria. But that's like being a member of a pedestrian organization for walking to the supermarket.
We have a saying in danish that goes like this: "If 2 danes meet they shake hands. If 3 danes meet they form an organization/union". So yeah, that adds up :D
Every Dutchmen has on average 1,3 bikes. The Danish a meager 0,9 ;-)
No? That is not one of the criteria as far as I’m concerned. What is your source for this?
Marcel Mank but Denmark is also much less densely populated which alone makes the bikes naturally more convenient for many people in the Netherlands :) With that said, I do think an average 50,000 inhabitants town in the Netherlands would have more bikers than a Danish one.
From the two cities compared though it doesn’t seem like Amsterdam has more bikers than Copenhagen from the statistics, which both see about 50% of all daily commutes done by bike
@@kristianemilpaludan1653 European Commission couple of years back. Netherlands scored better in everything except cyclists being a member of an organisation.
The fact that Copenhagen built wide bicycle paths that look exactly like car paths, meant that my family accidentally drove on one of them when we visited
This is what I was scared of the whole time; there are no curbs, no signs, no red freaking asphalt... How many people get run over in Copenhagen, this does not look good at all!
The new idea that gets implemented more and more in the Netherlands, are the bicycle lanes where cars are the guest. Especially in places with no room for both car and bike lanes. So you can drive on the red lanes but you have to be very, very careful driving your car. And it seems very successful. So you basically did something in Copenhagen before it was cool in the Netherlands. :’-)
@@NathanMandjes Yeah I hate those streets!
I know it's deliberate design in that case, but as a cyclist my life feels in danger as most car drivers don't give a stone about my wellbeing.
As a car driver I'm going insane having to drive 10km/h on those lanes behind a cyclist I can't pass!
Fuck. Those. Streets!
Ok but really no dane would make this mistake so it's more a case of you not being used to bicycle paths tbh. Like it's really not that hard
@@theramendutchman You don't need curbs or red asphalt on dedicated bike infrastructure, and signs are often unnecessary (road/infrastructure design should naturally guide most traffic decisions anyway).
The reason Copenhagen is rated as the best city for bicycling and not a Dutch city is because the Netherlands is just so good it had to be disqualified cause it'd just be unfair to all the other cities as it would absolutely dominate the entire list otherwise
the entire top [number of cities in the Netherlands] would all be Dutch cities if they let it qualify
It's like if metro systems got ranked, top 10 would be taken by China and Japan.
But it's easy to solve this with "one city per country" rule.
@@solderbuff same with ski resorts, if they would rank all the ski resorts in the world they would all be from Europe instead they rank half of them with US ski resorts
@@MaartenvanderVeeke I am not certain about it that.
Having bad city planning does not mean one has bad resort planning.
The best city for cycling outside of the Netherlands? It still looks like gold-dust for most European cyclists.
🤔
Oh man, as someone from Holland living in Copenhagen you won’t believe how often I had the same exact feeling. Now don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love Copenhagen, but I had to get used to the cycling experience. The first day I cycled down my quiet suburban street without designated bike lanes, approaching traffic lights where I wanted to take a left-hand turn. I did what I knew in this situation. I waited in front of the car lane allowing me to take the turn when the light would hit green. Soon I was greeted with a 20-second-long car honk, from a car pulling up behind me, letting me know the driver was the king of the road and I’d better bugger off. It didn’t take me long to find out that in Denmark it is customary to first cross the street and pile up awkwardly (and vulnerable) with 30 other cyclists at the corner of the street (where there is no obvious or logical place to stand) waiting for the next green light to finalize your left-hand turn. Being back in Holland every now and then. Cycling over the bicycle highways and bicycle rotundas of my birth town just feels so much more relaxing.
When it comes up in a conversation, Danes are often surprised that I feel that there is sufficient room for improvement. probably because Copenhagen was ranked as being "the best cycling city in the world". And this is a bit of a problem since if this is the belief, there is really not so much incentive to improve.
You actually can take that left turn tho, you would just have to wait at the right side of the road. You cant be in the way of cars or other cyclists. But if the car coming from your direction was to go either left or right, and no one was coming the opposite direction, you can make the turn.
Japan has same turning regulation, except reversed for right hand drive. Scary as heck on multilane road as big trucks must stay right and sometimes they go wide to avoid cars drifting out of lane.
This is odd, though I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean to take a left hand turn from the right hand kerb side? Even in UK I go in the car lane at roundabouts and intersections, though I do put the bike in a reasonable gear so the drivers aren't cramping up their clutch foot waiting for me to crawl off the line.
@@TimpBizkit When doing a left swing in an intersection you have to wait for the traffic going straight before turning left. For cars this is easy because there is usually dedicated space to wait in the middle of the road while the rest of traffic passes by. For bicycles however, the easiest and most common tactic is to drive to the next corner of the intersection and then wait for a green light. You are allowed to just make a turn the way cars do it, but it is so unusual that people will react as if you have broken a law.
@@nicolaim4275 How would you make a left turn in such a way in Copenhagen? You’d have to wait until all the cars driving straight ahead have done so, then get into the middle of the intersection and wait there if the cars coming from the other side are still in the way...
Also I don’t really know the rules for cycling here in Copenhagen, but I learned in school that you were not allowed to make a direct left turn as a cyclist, ever.
I moved to Utrecht,NL from USA 3 years ago. The most important idea that needs to be taken from the Netherlands are the protected intersections. I didn’t realize how bad Copenhagen is to cycle in. Nowhere in Netherlands have I felt stressed cycling. In USA, every ride had some stress. #1 goal everywhere should be stress free cycling.
Hope you like the beautyfull city Utrecht.
That's so funny you'd say that, I recently moved to Utrecht from Almere and I feel so stressed when cycling through the centre or crossing busy roads! In Almere every lane is separate and super safe, you can almost cycle on auto pilot haha.
Stress-free cycling is such a great way to describe it. Coming from the USA, it was an absolute joy to cycle in the Netherlands where the ease and protection of cyclists is the priority of the roadways. You're lucky to get 2 feet of semi-paved median to cycle on in the US and the constant need to be aware of fast-passing cars is such a deterrent to those who might otherwise cycle more consistently.
Utrecht
@@Elle-ira Alemre is also less than 60 years old at this point. It was designed after the Dutch decided to put bike infrastructure everywhere. If you go to Houten, a village near Utrecht, you will see much of the same kinds of modern super safe design, because like Almere, they never had to design around an old and established city.
As a Dutch cyclist, what I really find scary is bus passengers exiting the bus on the bike line.
In Holland there would always be a (elevated) place where you could exit the bus and you would be invited to walk towards the intersection where the is a zebrapad to cross the bike lane.
Yeah. Always stick your head out of the bus to see if the bike lane is clear - bus passengers have right of way but not every cyclist will respect this or will just be taken by surprise, as has honestly happened for me a couple of times when bus stops aren't very visible and there's traffic congestion.
many a times have a i seen crashes or near crashes of cyclists and pedestrians of this design. :/
We do have something like this in like half the busstops in Denmark. The problem is the passengers don't care and simply walk out on the bike lanes right away anyway. Its a cultural problem.
Not a perfect solution I agree, but in DK there is a rule, that as a cyclist you have to stop and let passengers out of the bus if there is no dedicated bus stop platform and they have to step out directly to the bike lane.
As being a Dutch, the urban design standards of the Netherlands naturally feels normal and just part of our culture. Just the way it is. Maybe separation of cars and bikes were just necesary because so much people are riding bikes here. Although we have some complaints about infrastructure sometimes and dangerous crossings still exists, it is good to see we have this high standards compared to the rest of the world. If we want to do something about unnesseary car-use (and our climate) it is time for other cities to change it more like the Dutch way of urban planning I think.
You'll also need to redo all the zoning etc. Allow for small businesses/commerce in residential areas for example, make it THE best option to cycle instead of grabbing a car by reducing distances between customers and businesses
@@AwoudeX I guess that the NL has done it already.
Do you think so many people ride bikes there because of the great infrastructure for it? Or the great infrastructure was built because so many people ride bikes?
My feeling after living in both countries is that the idea of biking is much more bottom-up in The Netherlands, while in Denmark is top-down. Definitely, it is better to bike in Amsterdam and in The Netherlands in general, the infrastructure for that is just another level. :)
Netherlands should improve it's train system. It was almost impossible to switch trains with bikes + trailer in Amsterdam main station. I was horrified by the tiny elevators. Some didn't even function and those that did only fitted one bike at a time with one wheel up. On the first trip this one man felt sorry for us and took us to the industrial garbage elevator, where everything fitted in.
Hence I heavily discourage anyone to travel to the Netherlands with their own bikes.
Man, I seriously _love_ your video's. They're structured and have a purpose, your voice is clear and easy to listen to for non-native English speakers, and, okay, who doesn't like to hear their country being praised.
Brazen NL It’s the clear and neutral Canadian accent that makes the difference....
As a dane who lives in Copenhagen and rides my bike to work every day, I completely agree, we've achieved a nice start, but it's time to up to Netherlands level.
Regarding the retrofitted bridge, it is the bane of my inner peace! I cross it twice a day and I hate the solution! Especially when you realise that it could be fixed by turning the intersection into a roundabout.
It's named "Vision Zero": ruclips.net/video/5aNtsWvNYKE/видео.html
I love that sharp corner though, looks fun!
Could it be that the Dutch improved on the ideas from Copenhagen? I remember our urban planners using Copenhagen as an example. We may have 'outgrown' you. But that's likely due to necessity and opportunity. The Netherlands, being flat and extremely densely populated, is an ideal business case for cycling after all.
@@mark01337 Source?
@@therealdutchidiot For what would you like a source? The fact that the Netherlands is flat and densely populated? Google it, and make a choice from the first 50 hits.
The Netherlands being a good business case for cycling? It's flat and densely populated. Common sense tells me it is. If I searched, I could probably find sources, but why bother.
Necessity of cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands? Look up the battle Amsterdam is having against cars. Yes, necessity may be a bit of an overstatement, I'm sure we could come up with other solutions. But cycling is a pretty good one. Opportunity follows from that.
Or would you like a source for my memories? I'm afraid memories don't work that way. Which is why I clearly classified that statement as 'from memory'.
I’m Danish, from Odense. I think you’re absolutely spot on with this.
We’re good, and in an achievable way. But it could absolutely be better, and what you’re showing of the Netherlands is definitely impressive.
But at least we’re working on a big tram line in my city now, and have closed down one of the biggest roads through city centre, in favour of more walkable mixed development, so we’re improving :)
I'd sign a petition for all urban planners to have one mandatory "Not Just Bikes" video a day. And like a swing of a magic wand, better cities for everyone.
Even if you Orange pilled the urban planners you still have to get past the budgeting people.
Personally all politicians should be expected to ride transit in their districts atleast once a week. Or do a more inspection style trip once a month where they spend a day trying to go all over the city using as much of the system as possible. This way they get to experience first hand how disrespectful or awesome their transit really is, amd give them real motivation and insight on making their transit nice to use.
I'm sorry Copenhagen. Don't be mad. I still love you. 🇩🇰
@keizer MONSTEr lol. No, I have not, but I've walked in LA which was scary enough for me.
a lot of the trees in Copenhagen had to be cut down due to Dutch Elm Disease... so blame the Dutchlandrians for the lack of trees.
Jeppe Geer they could have replanted...
@@AndreSomers I'm blaming the Dutchstanis here, they should have come and planted new trees!!! :p
@@jeppegeer i think the word you are looking for is hollandrians sir
I just come here to feel good about my countery
As we all do
Ah yes Amsterdam, the best country in the land
I know, right! Basicly this looks like a 3th world country 😂👍
hahaha
@@NLJeffEU 3th?
I've been looking for a channel to explore my interest in urban planning, especially non-car urban planning, and this is absolutely it. I live on the other side of the Atlantic; AKA, BICYCLE HELL. I'm in a city that's improving, but really, our urban planning attitude seems to be "get on the road, try not to die, good luck." I'm hoping to learn urban planning in the Netherlands so I can fix things back in the US, and hopefully reduce bicycle deaths to 0. I'm really happy to have found this channel.
How to get a degree in urban planning:
Step 1 - download Cities:Skylines
Step 2 - play it for 1000 hours
Step 3 - congratulations on your degree!
HEY ITS A FELLOW WASHINGTONIAN HIIIII
@@thany3 yup. my city has a big long stroad through the whole thing and i dont plan on changing it since it works lol
Would be great to see American cities ending up looking more like Dutch ones, except there's a million and one reasons why it won't be happening (any time soon). The fact that things aren't very walkable (outside of the very city centres), zoning laws (meaning things are even further apart), American pride and expectance related to car-ownership (they expect everyone to own a car), etc.
@@thany3 Yes of course! I think it's important people learn that there is a choice at all though. In the minds of many Americans, the car is the way to go. It's what they grew up on, and their parents, and their grandparents, so that's all they know. If we want stuff to change first they have to be exposed to the options and possibilities!
I've checked a map and I can confirm that Copenhagen is not Amsterdam :P
Good to know. I'll make sure I reference that in any follow-up video. Bring out the facts!
As a Dane - I very much agree. I fail to understand why Copenhagen keeps branding itself as the best bike city when this is clearly Amsterdam. I’m not sure on what grounds the city is spinning itself like this. Copenhagen is fine but Amsterdam is better. I agree with your review although I have a few comments.
1:29 since this is actually a bridge (Langebro), it is maybe not a typical example of a wide road. It is difficult to break up in smaller spaces. But it is indeed a good question why there is no kerb between the roadway and the bike lane here. It is the same on other bascule bridges in Copenhagen. Maybe there is a technical reason? Someone please enlighten us if you know about bridges. 1:46 This street, Hambrosgade, is indeed conspicuous with its lack of a bike lane and traffic calming, but it is not typical. It is short and in a somewhat underdeveloped corner of the centre. 2:05 Yes, this part of Hans Christian Andersens Boulevard leading up to the aforementioned Langebro is indeed huge and terrible and it is the widest street in the city. But it’s not your typical Copenhagen street, and most of it (behind you) does have trees, a median and bike lanes with a kerb. 2:17-2:40 Yes, I agree. Copenhagen has way too few trees. 2:40-3:02 And yes, as a tram enthusiast I completely agree. The closure of the tramway system in the heyday of the car was a disaster. Trams will actually return to the suburbs in a few years but politicians in the municipality of Copenhagen are still too neurotic to allow them in or even to use the word “tram” about them. 3:02 I also agree about the lack of bus lanes but although Copenhagen has more wide streets than Amsterdam, they are still not typical for the city. Åboulevard - Hans Christian Andersens Boulevard - Langebro - Amager Boulevard is the one very wide street and another is the first part of Vesterbrogade and its side street Bernstorffsgade, the corner of which you are standing on at this point (it does have trees and bus lanes to your left, though). Then there is Kalvebod Brygge and also Fredensgade - Tagensvej - Nørre Allé - Lyngbyvej but the latter has trees and dedicated bus lanes (all have bike lanes, of course). And apart from these, I can’t really think of other very wide streets. So yes, they are there, and they are more numerous than in Amsterdam but they are not really that typical. 3:18 Yes, and it’s free to bring your bike on S-trains. Whether there is space or not is probably a matter of designing the railcars. 3:45 Yes alas, this bridge was designed by a Polish company which clearly knew nothing about bikes, and it is (yet another) example of local politicians becoming so starstruck by some design idea that they totally forget that their voters are actually going to use it... 3:54 I clearly see what you mean about the asphalt colour. But trust me, it comes with practice. 4:25 Yes, this is indeed the case in some places. But in other places Copenhagen has actually had bike lanes since the 30s. 4:33 Yes, I also wonder why these ramps are the preferred choice of traffic planners here. Clearly, the fact that the pavement is not lowered is a type of traffic calming, but it somewhat comes at the expense of comfort for cyclists. 4:49 Oh dear, yes this place is herostratically famous and it is a bit of a current scandal in the city with journalists constantly haranguing the politicians about it. 6:00 I agree that a system of cycle tracks without level crossings is often a good idea, and some suburbs here have them, but I cannot really think of many places in the municipality of Copenhagen where there would be space, even if you did away with the cars (an idea that I completely support). I’m afraid that the dense geography of the older part of the city sets some limits here - but there may be a cultural thing that comes into play as well. From a Scandinavian design perspective, Dutch cityscapes often come across as consisting completely of infrastructure which makes them seem a little messy to Nordic eyes (this goes for North American cityscapes as well, I’m afraid) And I suspect that, here and now, Scandinavians simply prefer a “cleaner” city design, even though, sadly, it may come at the expense of safety. 6:05 Completely agree about the turn lanes. 6:40 And about bicycle parking. 6:54 (I know too little to comment here). 7:35 Yes, maybe that is indeed the explanation but hopefully this won’t deter the Netherlands from promoting their urban design as well.
I'm sorry, Amsterdam is NOT, and NEVER HAS BEEN the city with the best cycling infrastructure. And it will never will be. It has the name but it is a death trap for every day cycling. Partly because of it's own success, partly because it still is a car centric culture.
There are solutions, and various plans have been drawn, the problem lies with funding it. Amsterdam decided to install a new Metro line, cost overruns has made it impossible to tackle the most pressing problem, the city's center should have been car free a few years ago. Ah well, just an opinion.
By "best" I mean "best of the two".
Thank you! This is is the comment I wanted to see, and I'm so glad you put timestamps for your comments.
I knew I wouldn't get everything right, because I'm not that familiar with Copenhagen (it was only my 3rd visit there), but I did try to be fair: these clips are definitely representative of what I saw in my 4 hours of cycling footage that I took. I'm glad to see I wasn't THAT far off in my evaluation, but your comments are definitely helpful. Thanks!
Paul C I disagree, in all the big cities I’ve been too Amsterdam definitely had the best system. The few scary intersections get improved with new protected biking lanes and sometimes these new Nike priority streets. And some roads have very busy biking lanes, but you can easily avoid them by taking small roads with almost no traffic
Actually many consider Groningen or Utrecht the best city for bikes. Obstruction shots, like the bad bridge design in Copenhagen, can also be daily made in Amsterdam, with cyclists on their way to work always getting stuck behind big trucks on the channels. ;)
Don't let the folks at Copenhagenize catch wind of this video :')
wild silvarret appears. Love your content man.
We already have!
Love your videos btw :)
Oh hey Silv, fancy seeing you here :)
dane here, and i absolutely agree with all the points of this video, especially with the bike/car turn lane thing. its horrifying as a cyklist. i love that denmark is trying to become friendly to bikes, but as OP said, it feels like a lot of the decisions were made as a compromise, and by people who have never been on a bike.
@@SammyTheHuman It is like the video pointed out, an urban developer can see Copenhagen as an achievable first step. What worries me is that Copenhagen city councel is petting itself on the back with: we are the best bicycle city in the world and fail to make the next step and become a real bike friendly city like we have in the Netherlands.
as someone living in London, I thought Copenhagen was absolutely incredible for cycling, I even found Paris quite nice to cycle in tbh. I need to visit the Netherlands I reckon...
Trust me. Your mind Will be blow away if you think copenhagen is a gold standard.
I’m Dutch and I’m living in London and cycling here is an adventure for me, and not in a good way. But more than that, it seems that car drivers are annoyed by the behavior of cyclists when all they are trying to do is minimize the chance of having an accident. But somehow that doesn’t register. I really don’t get it.
If you thought Paris was nice to cycle, than you’ll be blown away with most cities in Netherlands. But it makes sense, considering that you’re from London.
@@starbase218As a pedestrian in London, I hate both car drivers and cyclists. Neither look where they are going and seem to think they rule the street (and in the case of cyclists - the pavements as well)
@@shockingfish Can you put yourself in the position of a person on a bike though? And if so, how much choice do you think they have (generally speaking of course, there are always assholes).
I've never heard someone throw shade so eloquent and constructive. Good vid.
I cycled from the Netherlands through Germany to Ribe in Denmark. I can tell you that I was disappointed by the Danish cycling infrastructure but it was still far superior to the clusterfu## that is Germany's cycling infrastructure.
Yup, I cycled from the Netherlands to Odense, Kolding, Ribe and Romo. Cycling through Germany felt much safer than the parts in Denmark. Though in the city’s it was comparable. Both country have their own inconveniences. In Germany I was scared to hit pedestrians. In Denmark I was scared to be hit by a car.
I'm dutch and I lived in Leipzig, Germany for half a year, still mostly getting around by bicycle. Now Leipzig also has tramrails to get stuck in, next to the usual hopping on and of the sidewalk, and dodging cars at intersections. The German train network is a joke as well compared to what I'm used to. I got an appreciation for infrastructure then
@@azorazan Well, both in the Netherlands as in Germany, it depends where you are. In the west of the Netherlands there is one of the best public transport systems I got to know, in the south of that same country, also quite dense populated, it is on of the worst a got to know, a complete failure.
Look here ... The dutch road infrastructure- concept ist the best and most secure of the world ...
ruclips.net/video/5aNtsWvNYKE/видео.html
Yes, as a german cyclist I must agree, clusterf*** is a nice way to describe it. There might be some well meant projects here and there. But overall you're very much left standing in the rain as a cyclist. Often existing bikelanes are really bad - no maintenance in 20 years. So either you slow down to 12km/h to mange - but that's not really cycling - or you switch to the road itself, where you'll get honked with a guarantee. Sometimes the bike lanes are that bad, that they take away the signs and you are allowed to use the road along with the cars... But you'll get honked at anyway, plus can experience dangerous overtaking and such.... All in all it feels like these lanes only exist because of some regulations, there, you've got a bike lane, now be quiet. But not like something someone thought up, who rides a bike sometimes...
It is so nice to finally hear someone mention the massive lack of trees. It is not because we live in a windy city or because of natural causes, it has to do with urban planning and poor leadership. The city actively works against trees, citizens have been fighting to protect and preserve what is left, but the fellings go on. They take up to 281 at a time, for various reasons. Usually for construction, widening of roads or climate change adaptation (I know, it makes no sense). Trees are also felled for parking and for profit (precious land). They like to say they replant, but old trees cannot be replaced, and the young ones have a hard time surviving on the streets today. And yes, it sucks riding on treeless streets.
That's awful! I live in a very bike-unfriendly city in Canada but at least the city goes out of its way to protect old trees for the very reasons you mention.
There have never been so many trees in CPH as there is right now, in Enghave Plads close to me, there is more that three times as many trees than before the metro was made, one of the trees replaced a 113 year old tree is a 65 year old walnut tree, there is five pear-trees and one cherry. in these years CPH planting 200.000 new trees, most is 10-15 years old.
@@holgerjrgensen2166 I've recently watched a number of videos taken by people driving all over Copenhagen (from the ourskirts into the centre), and one of my observations was the lack of trees, so this video concurs with my own impressions. Perhaps I should visit Enghave Plads to prove myself wrong.
@@DikWhite The many new metro stations resulted in new or modernized squares, maybe Enghave Plads is the one, as got most trees, but the metro squares have added a lots of more trees.
Yesterday, I'd saw that new cyclepath on Frederiksbergs Alle', where it ends in Vesterbrogade is near fininsh, it is only a short distance, but makes order in this special cross, also 7 trees in each side will be planted.
Also behind the Central station is a new finish metro-square with new cycle-path/parking and trees.
On 'Bryggen', other side of the harbour is just finish the work and a new cyk/Ped-bridge over the canal, as leads the water from the little lagoon (+ beach) down in the harbour.
It is nearby the next habour-bridge will be in few years, when the new metro station is finish, - further south, another harbour-bridge will come, unknown when, but near Langelinie in nord a harbour-bridge is in it's first step, research.
In Denmark's longest Alle' 14 km. Vestvolden, we are soon able to enjoy a new Cycle-bridge across Jyllingevej, a busy motor-road, it has been vaiting in Poland for seven years, because of unexpected conditions in the ground of construction.
There is still need'ed few more bridges to make the 14 km. non-stop, but soon it is 10 km. (it is actually a hilly park with canal, and Alle')
On Bryggen, further south from the new little bridge, Nokken, is wild nature by the harbour-side, a new two-way cycle-path will soon be ready, so the gravel-path will be for the Ped's.
So, CPH have far more green areas, and far more trees than Amsterdam.
An historical canal-park, and a canal-quarter with very old trees, were made by help of Dutch workers.
Well, I'd also did see some of the videos recently, in general, I'd think they should move the camera more, to give 'a more livable perspective', and details, but there are some of the motor-roads, with the cycle-path on the side, where there is no space for trees.
You'll be surpriced when You come and look around.
The growt of trees and cycle-paths continiue, absolutely positive.
Another thing is,
My 'Block' is about 200 m. X 60 m.
when I moved in 36 years ago
there were no trees or green,
today we have 75 big trees, about 30 different types, some nealy 50 years old, and other green,
even the roofs of cycle-parking, and garbage, has vegetation.
Vesterbro was the less green quarter in CPH, now there is trees and green in allmost every street, and about 2.000 hidden behind the walls.
(about 3.000 new trees in a Km/2. in 3-4 decades)
Very nice to hear a non-native Dutchmen speak so favourably about the Dutch cycling culture.
I'm from Austria and have ridden my bike in about 30 countries so far. The Netherlands is clearly number one, and no other country comes even close to the cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands.
Then comes Denmark, Finland (Oulu in particular is very good, better than Danish cities) and Flanders is also quite good in parts.
I expected a lot from Copenhagen, but was a bit disappointed. It's good, no question, there are also a lot of cyclists (so many that it's partly already stressful as a cyclist), but Copenhagen is still a car city and there are not enough good bicycle parking places.
"I have enough trouble getting a painted bicycle gutter" oof, that hits me right where I live.
In some parts of the US, you're luckily to even have a sidewalk or shoulder to bike or walk on.
@@Beun007 Let them sort out the healthcare system first.
I live in Saskatoon, Canada, and we just limp from one misguided project idea to another when it comes to cycling. The times I have cycled in A'dam showed me how superior the Dutch approach is to city planning. Over here, we are still in the Stone (or maybe Asphalt) Age.
1life0gods And the bike lanes that exist lead from nowhere to nowhere.
I hope your videos will be watched not only by Dutch people who are proud of their country. But by people in countries that can learn from the things implemented in the Netherlands.
Gebel I am afraid your right. This chat will probably be GEKOLONISEERD and most takeaways will go unheard. But a man can dream :)
Nee dat is niet zo
Dikkertje Fap wat is niet zo?
A Brazilian that lives in Antwerp/Belgium and is obsessed with the bike infrastructure in the Netherlands. Antwerp is pretty decent compared to the rest of the world but it doesn't come even close to what you guys have in the Netherlands. I can only dream of it being implemented by other countries and I'm constantly trying to spread the word amongst my Brazilian friends. So yes, not only Dutch people :).
Matheus Andrade great to hear! I think not just bikes is doing a great job targeting a international audience. The reason I voiced my concern is because RUclips pushes videos to people it thinks will watch it. And Dutch people do like hearing positive things about the Netherlands.
I live in Amsterdam and am convinced (having lives in London, manchester, New York and elsewhere) that it is the city planning that calms the pace of life and makes it so great to live here
if one does not know Dutch is living in Amstradam possible as they learn? :)
The bicycle infrastructure of Copenhagen is just Germany's bicycle infrastructure with add ons.
It's seems to be designed mostly with cars in mind, to then slap a bicycle lane on top of it.
That's exactly what I thought too, when I went to Copenhagen! The paths are wider and there are nice cycle bridges but no protected intersections and if you're out of the city, you don't really feel any difference to German infrastructure.
I beg to differ here, because in Germany bike lanes are often just painted white stripes on the pavements. This is not the case in Denmark.
@@troelspeterroland6998 Yes, I was in Münster, they think they did something for bicycling, but they failed totally.
The Netherlands took decades (!) to get where it is now, I think criticizing Denmark might not be the right way. As is clear from the video.
In the Netherlands every time a road is getting large construction: look at the design and see how we can make it safe for all the people/traffic.
@@autohmae It did. But I also recall the Dutch situation vividly back in the early 80s. Back then I already cycled to school as a little kid, all by myself, on completely separate red bike paths and this was only after 20 years of developing proper cycling infrastructure. This was in a smaller satellite town of Rotterdam. Of course much has improved since then but if The Netherlands was able to pull it off in 20 years then why can't the world do it in 30 or more? Forget about those high tech bike parking facilities for now. Those weren't around 10 years ago when I left. Those are only the cherry on the cake. Bake the ff-ing cake first. 😉
Go Netherlands! We need rolemodels in Germany to finally overcome our automotive lobby.
Your infrastructure is outstanding. I am so jealous!
The car lobby thou...
If German car brands would make bicycles then i´d reconsider.
I´m sure we Dutch think you lovely Germans would make great cycling infra, but do you have the will to change minds and fight off big companies that want to keep things the way they are?.
@@Zoza15 Some cities have shown signs of that but nowhere near the extent of a Dutch city. It's a mindset issue. Seperating bikes, cars, pedestrians and public transit with appropriate infrastructure would benefit everyone but most people don't think far enough ahead (Downs-Thomson paradox) when they see urban planners dedicating more space to bicycles and throw a fit...
@@Quotenbrtchen Its a slow progress as it was here in The Netherlands, maybe in 20 30 years the change will become more apparent now.
More nations are starting to take cycling serious which is quite a blessing from us Dutch people to see.
Fight no matter how hard, you can always use the Dutch examples against the car lobbyists.
@@Zoza15 Well I think car companies have lost a lot of credibility with politics in the last years. Obviously it isn't nice for politicians having to deal with the emission fraud. And the green party is getting more and more power. They used to be a rather small party. Now in the 2021 elections they have a reasonable chance to become the strongest party. A coalition without the green party will be very difficult and they might even be able to provide their candidate as chancellor.
I feel like alot of these issues with Copenhagen might be complacency. Im from Denmark and in my 30's the bike infrastructure you find in Denmark has more or less been there since at least the 90's, and i think we just sort of said to ourselfs this is perfect and stopped perfecting the way we do this.
However i come from a small town in northern Denmark with 3000 Inhabitants and even that town had protected bicyclelanes. and as long as i can remember you have been able to ride on completly seperated bicylcelanes from that town all the way to the nearest city 30km away. If i step outside my apartment now i can ride from that aparment in the city to the sea 40km away without leaving a bicyclelane, "problem" is that was the same 30 years ago and not much improvements have been made since that.
I am a bike lover and i live in the Netherlands, city of The Hague. I feel blessed when I ride my bike here. I was a bike messenger for 5 years before. Still love riding every road here for pleasure not work. We don't realise this kind off stuff much, thanks for showing this to me, I will even enjoy and love my bicycle more and more.x
This, i also live in The Hague and although i travel by car mostly, sometimes i grab my bike and almost throughout my whole neighborhood have designated bike lanes, there is only 1 place that can be iffy while riding my bike (intersection Laan van NOI - Theresiastraat) but in overall the infrastructure is the best.
All cities in The Netherlands, big and small, are better for cyclists than Copenhagen. It isn't just Amsterdam, it is nationwide.
Just googled for best cycling city. A true list would have every single city in the Netherlands beat Copenhagen. Those lists are a joke.
He says that in the video
As a Dutch person, Amsterdam is probably the worst city to bike besides maybe Rotterdam, because the traffic is more chaotic than in the rest of the country
@@MJ-rv5ri ...and still it's much better than Copenhagen...
@@MJ-rv5ri Rotterdam is really good to ride your bike...In comparison to Amsterdam and Utrecht there's a lot less dangerous areas where pedestrians and cyclists crash. The roads are in general a bit more spaceous and other than that not a lot is different..
You mean Amsterdam city centre is bad, not Amsterdam city in general?
2:43 bus stop where the passengers walk directly on the bike lane. Not in the Netherlands, there would be a raised platform with a rail of fence. To protect the passengers.
Yes, but the Copenhagen situation is used to claim that all cycletracks are going to be "dangerous" at bus stops, even when designed as the Dutch do.
I think it's more common that bike lanes simply go around the backside of the busstops in the Netherlands, but to be fair, that little clip is from a bridge and there isn't really any space to make the bike lane go behind the busstop, because then the entire sidewalk would be gone
In Netherland the waiting areas are obligatory directly at the road and the bike lane behind of it. In this direction it's a lot more securely.
Detlef Mann Not everywhere actually, there’s quite some bus stops in my town Veendam with a raised platform near the street, a raised cycle path (almost like a speed bump) behind that, and the waiting area on the other side of the cycle path. goo.gl/maps/Ctg18GQmfsT6GSmcA
and a more spacious variant: goo.gl/maps/eF8yjWFSHLcGm9Ak9
i know it doesn't really change much, but the "law" clearly states that people on bikecycles MUST stop when a bus is unloading passengers. Sadly not alot of people stops.
8:53 I think this sums up a lot of planning in car-centric cities: Getting *any* cycle lane already meets resistance, so going for the Dutch solution just seems totally unachievable. The best thing to aim for at that stage is just to make it a bit safer and a bit less inconvenient to cycle.
Funny story: the bridge in 3:46 got the turns because of a miscalculation. They started building the bridge from both sides of the canal, but at some point realized that the two parts were not gonna meet in the middle as planned.. They did a half-assed fix, that was probably cheaper than starting from scratch, but that bridge really *is* horrible.
It’s really funny to see this as a Dutch person and realizing that everything you take for granted whilst on a bike is actually very special for the rest of the world.
I do remember when I was 16 on a school ‘project week’ we had; we cycled to Berlin in 5 days (through the Hartz mountains) and sometimes we had to ride on the side of motorways. That was some scary stuff. In the Netherlands that’s highly illegal.
I recently visited Arizona and there also bikes are on the side of the highway where you pass with 75 MPH. Eery.
Man, you reminded me of the road trip my family and I took to New Brunswick, where I passed a guy riding bicycle on a controlled-access highway while I was driving at the speed limit of 110 km/h. Needless to say, I was flabbergasted. The thought of someone riding a bicycle on a controlled-access highway during normal operation simply does not compute for me. I tried my best to give the poor guy some space in the short time I had, but I'm sure it wasn't enough.
@@BicyclesMayUseFullLane You zipped past that lad at 110km/h??! Did the lad get injured because of the side-wind?
@@Henry_Jr_Watsson I certainly hope not. IIRC I yielded about half of traffic lane to the poor guy. While I have personally ridden on a road where the speed limit was 80 km/h (read: people were probably driving at 90 km/h, and it certainly wasn't exactly pleasant), I'm not really sure if the side wind scales linearly.
The highway was not busy, as in I was the only car around, so there is that.
The other way around also happens: sometimes you see foreign exchange students in the Netherlands cycling on a motor way or high way.
@@dodec8449 Well, I remember seeing a clip of some Dutch TV program on youtube, where a guy who claims to be from Canada was cycling on autosnelweg in the Netherlands, and was pulled over by the police. And he got off scot-free, with a free escort off the motorway, because he claimed everyone does this in Canada.
What made that guy's claim less credible, however, is that he claimed he was from Ontario IIRC. And even here in Ontario, controlled-access highway (400s series) do not permit bicycles on them. That is why I was caught by surprise in New Brunswick.
Foreign planners could also try the Belgian approach: a half-assed version of the Dutch approach!
Tim Pauwels half assed version? I was in Antwerp a few months ago. The amount of cars in that city almost make me angry. The tram couldn’t move, people parked their big ass cars on the sidewalk. And the whole city came to a grinding standstill around 16:00
My first trip to the USA: this is America, the most car-centric country in the world. So why are your roads so... so *Belgian*?
Jim Heeren That’s what half arsed means, like ‘oh that looks good but lets not put any effort into it’
In Belgium it really depends on where you are, often from town to town. In many of the towns east of Antwerp (Campine region) and into Limburg, there is great cycling infrastructure, on par with similar sized towns in the Netherlands. In Leuven, a medium sized city, cycling is great. I can’t speak for Antwerp, but I think the problem might be that Belgium is still in a sort of intermediairy phase, which the Netherlands went through 20-30 years ago. In this phase more cycling infrastructure is being built but too many people are still clinging to their cars. Once more people are taken out of a car onto a bike, those Belgian cities will become more bike friendly, because the infrastructure is getting there, but the mentality of the people is still far off.
@@StratosTitan Yes, in Belgium, Limburg is great and modern, but the Antwerps infrastructure is very "behind". It depends where you are.
So what I'm hearing is : "The Dutch are so ridiculously advanced in this aspect, they make urban planners elsewhere doubt if they choose the right profession. Basically the Dutch are living in 2050 when it comes to people's safety on the streets."
I'm Canadian, lived in Amsterdam and visited Cophengan and can wholly agree with your sentiments in this video. I found Copenhagen so strangely lacking trees and the cycling didn't feel as organic to the city as it does in Amsterdam, despite being branded the same. Great video!
Yeee we don’t have many threes in the city itself they are in the Parks :D
i hear Victoria CAN has a lovely biking system/trail?
15 years or so ago, Copenhagen was hit by Elm disease, they were forced to cut down a lot of their trees.
And in the last 15 years they couldn't be bothered to plant new ones?
Couldn't agree more. When I was visiting Copenhagen it felt great to be able to ride a bike around town but indeed you feel scared quite a lot of time when cycling.
I've cycled in Copenhagen and, while I agree with the points raised in the video, I wasn't in the least bit scared there - but that's because I normally ride in Dublin, Ireland...
The thing you will quickly realize if you bicycle in Copenhagen, is that drivers there are more cautious there than in most other places. They know they constantly have to be watching out for bicycles, and especially when turning. Pedestrians are a bigger problem, since they often don’t seem to have the same respect for bicyclists.
amsterdam: lawful good
copenhagen: chaotic good
As a Dane from Odense. The bicycle infrastructure in Copenhagen feels like a hellscape compared to what we have, though ours still isn't quite as good as in the Netherlands.
(we leave all the terrible infrastructure to the cars)
This is so spot on! I am Dutch and live in Amsterdam. So when I heard Copenhagen was voted the world's best bicycle city a few years ago I was super excited about visiting and learning how things could be further improved. And sad to say I was really disappointing. For example when cyclist path just end and people go over the busy sidewalks to go further. Recent years Amsterdam has made even further steps so bring it on..!! PS: I love Copenhagen, new marine area with UN City going to be awesome too!
@@julesjacobs1 I think, to explain the dutch cycling- infrastructure it's more eligible to show the infrastructure in Nijmegen, Utrecht or Appeldoorn. ruclips.net/video/wZDsRH3g0q0/видео.html
Utrecht is the most bicycle friendly city
@@julesjacobs1 just an fyi, people walking on the bikepaths are mostly tourists.
copehagen isnt great its fine. i think a lot of the safety comes from the culture and there just being so many bikes. and things are improving in Denmark especially in Aalborg, they are starting to make bus only roads, and there is a great networks for bikes (still not perfect) and once countries get used to the Copenhagen style of city planing the Netherlands is the next obvious step
Exactly, The Netherlands didn't think up the entire structure in one go. It has to grow. When we started, no doubt parts have been build the same as they are in Copenhagen now. We are still improving and learning. People have to remember we started our network in the 60-70's. We have at least a 40 year head start compared to most of the world. If city's/countries want to implement a cycling network, they can't just plop it in and tell every road user "good luck, have fun and drive safe". You have to gradually build it in and let everybody get used to it. And once you get a little bit everywhere you can expand and improve on what you've got. Smart designers turn to the Netherlands to use the lessons we have learned the hard way.
PS: it isn't just making the bicycle paths, but the traffic laws also need a review to better protect cyclists and pedestrians in most countries. Also awareness of having many cyclists and pedestrians is an important part of the learning curve.
PS2: not my video, but they got a great example of what I mean around the 12 minute mark in this video named "what can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?" ruclips.net/video/l0GA901oGe4/видео.html
I am from the Netherlands (grew up there) but live in Copenhagen and you nailed it! Danes are usually very very rule loving and much more polite in traffic than in NL. I think that’s why it works
This was incredibly illuminating... Like this just broke the internet for me lol. Thank you for such a comprehensive, first-hand account! Love your videos!
Coming from the Netherlands I honestly found Copenhagen cycling terrifying at times, also I never really realised the lack of green until you pointed it out!
Try London, that place would put you off cycling altogether. Mijne god de Engelse weten niets van fietsen.
Ik vond het meevallen op de fiets in Kopenhagen. Gewoon goed uitkijken en rustig aan :) die kruisingen waren wel hel op aarde. Ik durfde niet voor te sorteren om linksaf te gaan, dus ik ging in etappes via een soort halve vierkant, zeg maar...
The Netherlands is a great country cycling and looks wise,also the people were really nice during my 2019 trip so kind , I had free camping at a site, Invited to stay with a family over night, offered free food ,helped with directions I found the Dutch to be welcoming.
David Macdonald glad you enjoyed your stay in our country.
I like the Netherlands too, 100% biased of course.
Well, not being German helps a lot (kidding).
Be our guest.
You’re welcome mate
I live in Den Haag/The Hague. They narrowed a lots of streets from two car lanes to one, because they only get busy a few hours a day. A lot of green and many safe bicycle lanes were created the last couple of years. A few years ago there was a big sign that the city’s bike lanes were subsidised by the E.U. The city is still creating new lanes, but I think the city looks great now and is a nice place to ride your bike 😁 There are also streets where it is a bikers lane and cars are guests 😁✌🏻Plus the city provides of many free guarded outdoor/indoor bicycle parking lots in the centre , at the station and at the beach. You only need a key chain with a QR code which they give you for free.
Dude, I love your channel! It's so interesting and unique. I have been living in the Netherlands for 5 years now, your insight is enlightening.
The Copenhagenize index lost all credibility when they put Antwerp in fourth place. Cycling in Antwerp is simply dangerous.
always so slow passing through that city, to me it feels not well planned
I find Antwerp to be easier to bike around than Amsterdam. Both are pretty pretty chaotic but Amsterdam is way more crowded and has more big interjunctions (at least in and around the city centre). I think that Utrecht is the most bicycle friendly ‘big’ city in the world.
I’m Dutch, I live in antwerp, cycling here and in the whole country of belgium is awful
@@brats8906 we're on the 1999 level the Netherlands had. The Flemish are getting there.
@@brats8906 For Dutch perspective, Dutch perspective is not everything and perfect. Cycling in Western Belgium is not that bad as you say.
2:35 Jesus, that street looks _bare_
It's so devoid of detail that it feels more like a template street that would get details in later on rather than a real street that exists somewhere.
Thankfully, it was only temporary, due to the street being reconstructed. This street now has trees on it.
I came to Copenhagen expecting an urban design utopia. I’ve been blown away by the number of cars, noise, chaos. I think my word to describe it is ‘functional’ whereas I was expecting perfection.
Cycling helmets are not uncommon in Copenhagen.
It would be interesting to compares Copenhagen’s cyclist’s ages to Amsterdam’s.
I'd be interested to see your take on bike infrastructure in NYC. I definitely love Amsterdam's bike accomodations much more, but NYC is far better than it would seem on paper. I could just be used to it, but since there are so many smaller, one way streets that are wide enough to comfortably fit traffic and bikes, getting around is surprisingly not too bad.
That's of course a factor but many European cities would probably indirectly qualify for that also by default. Having distinct bicycle infrastructure needs constructive input, no matter the circumstances and there tends to be less input in America.
I grew up in the Netherlands in a small city. I went to work in Copenhagen for a year and naturally, I brought my bike. I rode my bike to work maybe twice and then just switched to public transport because I just didn't feel safe. And with all those intersections, riding a bike just wasn't very efficient and i was very annoyed having to stop and wait every minute.
dude, i have tears in my eyes, thinking that in Romania there are basically no bike lanes and i can't really ride on the street because i haven't got a helmet
You make really high quality videos. A pleasure to watch
0:00 Intro
0:05 Copenhagen is great, but it’s not Amsterdam
1:20 Road width and lack of traffic calming
2:16 Lack of trees
2:41 Buses & lack of trams
3:03 Trains
3:26 Cycling
3:50 Asphalt color
4:06 Cycling infrastructure
4:37 Dybbølsbro junction
5:27 Intersections & lack of alternate cycling network avoiding cars
6:02 Combined bicycle lane/car turn lanes
6:37 Bicycle parking
6:53 Other Danish cities
7:16 Why Copenhagen is held up as an example by urban planners
7:37 Hypothetical urban planner visiting Copenhagen
8:20 Hypothetical urban planner visiting a Dutch city
9:01 The real value of Copenhagen for urban planners
9:58 Outro
You made timestamps for a year old video? I’ll like the comment because it’s helpful but the chance is that most people won’t see it.
@@CedricCaffa No worries lol, I made them for myself. :P
At the end, you mention "people centered" that is one of the main differences in dutch culture in general and an mayor driver of the wealth, heqlth, happyness and competitiveness of this tiny nation.
Don’t like the word Tiny😘
I don't know what is tiny about the Netherlands. An example of a tiny country is San Marino.
@@roodborstkalf9664 Well, it is a one of many small countries in the world. Economically, it is practically a part of Germany. But nothing bad about that.
Agree! Yet, latest 11 years (since VVD in power) have changed it for the worst. If I compare life here in 2005-2005 and now, it has clearly became worse almost in all respects :(
I could have attributed this to "lower" taxes, but our cumulative brutto income is >100K per year (both partners have full-time jobs, both have high responsibilities). So, if that is about being less social, than perhaps
Vladislav van der Velden The VVD has caused a huge increase in our wealth. Our GDP/capita has increased with thousands and our unemployment rates have never been this low.
Also, I’m pretty sure a liberal party would change the countries competitiveness for the better while a socialist party would most likely not care about such means to increase our wealth, because: ‘cApiTalisM StInKs’
I definetly agree with most of the things you've said, but as other people have said, a lot of the reason why we think it's so great, is probably because we're all so used to it. That of course doesn't help foreigners, since they've probably experienced a very different biking culture. So yeah, we don't derserve number 1, looking from the outside.
Recently, however, some improvements have been made. We've gotten the "Supercykelsti" or "Super bike path" which has connected lots of cities around Copenhagen, with old and new bike paths. It's gotten a lot easier to go from city to city on bike and lots of people use them to go to work or school. They're very nice to use, and lots of them go away from the main roads and instead into forests or over fields, making it a very pretty experience. They also have little railings at each traffic light, that you can rest on until the light turns green. Not sure if you had heard of them, but thought it might be nice to know. :)
Very nice comparison and analysis! Thank you!
Dane here, thanks for the comment about buses being scaring when the bike lane becomes a right turn lane. Always thought it weird it was considered the most bike friendly design.
I would definitely agree with the sentiment that people see Copenhagen as "doable" as compared to what's in The Netherlands. I've heard it mentioned a number of other times before in various other forums, so it certainly must exist. At the same time, I feel that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In many instances, any change at all is vehemently opposed (or at is at least met skeptically) and requires not just great financial resources to overcome, but consumes a lot of political capital too. In that scenario, the rationale for not going for the best seems to be quite lacking, especially given the propensity for things to get watered down. Copenhagen is already compromise as it is so it's imperative to ask for Dutch to at least get Copenhagen out of the deal.
Also, the usual issues of Dutch quality only exist for converting the cities we have now. In new-build or large scale reconstruction projects, there's effectively a blank slate which negates the usual reasons for compromise. Instead, that opportunity should be used to absolutely get as close to Dutch quality as possible, thus saving money by avoiding the need to have to come back and rebuild it in the future. But more importantly, it provides real-world example of the fact that the Dutch aren't "special" and that the same things which work there DO work elsewhere. And the last point is that by being built to that quality from the start, there's no need to expend political capital to make changes at a later date. Instead, it provides a model to be copied out elsewhere.
We just have a few billion euro of a headstart on other countries on bike infrastructure. In fact, other countries should be able to do it cheaper since they can copy us. As the narrator said, it's a choice to invest or not. The danish are richer than the dutch, so they should be able to if they want.
Amazing content, this should be on tv. I wonder what effect current events will have on infrastructure.
I suspect that car-centric places will use it as another excuse to stay car-centric, and many people will be irrationally scared of public transit.
Ultimately depends on the people in power. Show it to decision makers and real change can happen.
@@NotJustBikes At this pace, we'll have Uber-like electric self-driving cars around the world before we'll have cycle safe cities.
@@NotJustBikes yeah i don't get it, i mean most people here in NL still own a car. I drive when i need to go further then 5 KM but fewer then that i will use my bike. I think the car lobby has nothing to lose since everyone still owns a car.
One of the best videos. All of them are great. On point and super analysis, along with the great jokes, remarks and new words. :)
My thoughts exactly! I couldn't believe how huge the streets in copenhagen were.
At 7:09 its my hometown of Nijmegen with some great cycling acomdations
Yes! It's really quite nice to cycle there. Much better than most of Amsterdam.
Waneer gaan we weer nederlands spreken. Bedankt voor deze video. Als een Nederlander in Canada mag je zeggen dat ik trots ben op Nederland. En ik heb deze video opgestuurt aan mijn zoon die Urban Planing studeert aan de Universiteit in Kingston Ontario.
6:17 this reminds me of cycling through the Leiden Centraal bus station. Having to ride between a lane of running buses and a lane of stopped buses right after an exit for every platform of the whole station is terrifying
Your videos make me so aware of, specially, how safe i move around on my bike where i live. I just feel i have right to my cycling space!. But most if all i LOVE how much it is invested in greenery and trees. Green around humans shows us the seasons, its beauty , it keeps the air healthy and so many more positive things💚. Thank you for remind us how lucky we are.
Spanish girl.
It's interesting to learn about the differences between those countries, for someone who live in Poland both look like urban heaven :)
Thank you for another valuable and well made video!
Really great presentation, highlighting the major and minor differences between these two bicycling nations. Your assessment of why CPN gets so many city planners from around the world seems spot on. It represents the next step that their home cities can take to make cycling more integrated. Amsterdam is too big of a leap to aim for at the start, which is such a compliment for the Dutch. Their whole system is so impressive, especially the cycle only bridges, and dedicated underground parking racks. The Dutch have this tiny country, which they enlarge, which is impressive enough, but they seem so efficient with what they have. Makes you wonder what they could do, if they had a large country with lots of mineral resources.
Everytime I am stuck in traffic or have to share the road with cars I think of these videos. The videos have rocked me to my core!
I want out of my Canadian suburban neighbourhood!!!!!!
Great channel! Really informative!
As someone from Copenhagen, i can agree to the shared turning lanes. It's especially scary if you are not turning in the intersection, but going straight, then you need to be on the left side of the turning lane, meaning in the middle of the road on the lane going straight. With traffic behind and to both sides of you. It can definately be improved upon.
Looks and feels like NL back in the 80s/90s.
Yes, about 10-15 years after the Netherlands really started with the more cycling-centric policies.
@@rogerwilco2 I was hoping other countries would be able to skip this phase and go straight to what the Netherlands is doing.
Exactly, it looks like how it was here when I was young, and I'm from 85
No it doesn't. Back in the 80s the Netherlands was way beyond this.
Haha true
You’ve really nailed it here with your breakdown. Thank you
Thanks for the great video! I'm excited to be living in Copenhagen this upcoming semester, but I will absolutely be visiting Amsterdam as many weekends as I can.
I turned on automatic subtitles and the transcription of your summary made me chuckle a bit, lol: "because once you've cope and agonized then it's time to Netherland's eyes"
lol! Yeah this was made back in the day before I started uploading the actual script into the subtitles. I'm not sure whether I should fix this one though, because that's great.
"Struggle to get a painted bike gutter" AMEN to that, I have spent HOURS laying out beautiful bike facilities with roadway separation, showing it would be just paint and glued channelizes. I have had city councils say it was "Too progressive"
That is crazy.
paint and glued channelizes is a safety hazzard in Denmark. Its slippery - we a have lot more iceing during winter and all year rain here. Cyclists organizations has spend many years to the the city councils to abandon and minimize the painted approach. The lack of coloring is not something copenhagen commutes has an issue with - cars, bikes and pedestrians is always seperated by tiles, level and surface pattern.
In terms of improvement in bike traffic here the approach has also been focused on effective speed for bicylists. Greeen waves optimized for bicycles, flow in traffic for cyclists minimizing stops etc. In General people chooses to commute up to 10km from their workplace, many commutes 20km and longer - especially since the commuter train system was changed to accept bicycles for free.
The bring-your-bike on commuter trains approach also has been a focus as it increases the long distance commuting. Its quite common to bring your bike on the commuter train for 20-35km commmutes in the morning at take the bike back home (or bike in the morning and commuter train in the afternoon if weather is bad). Simlar for people with a 10km commute if weather is bad either in the morning or afternoon - or you may choose to brig the bike on commuter train for 20km af switch to your bike for the last 3-6km.
...and you willl find trees& green as well - even on the the roads you choose to show here.
Our city keeps "testing" one road at a time that doesn't go anywhere and then using that as an excuse to not build a network.
When I lived in Maastricht there were some roads without any trees but they were mostly in the old city center with small sidewalks and streets. It makes sense not to have any trees there but during my stay they did plant trees on one of the wide streets
Fantastic insight - well done !
This is so true. I live in Copenhagen and I ride my bike almost every day. Often I feel nervous because the cars are so close - they often don't care about you and you are just in the way.
This video is basically
"this is nothing like the ... you'll find in the Netherlands"
I was in Copenhagen last October. Did rent a bike for one day and it was allright. I didn’t really dare to take left turns on intersections, so I just crossed the streets in half a square. I did not notice the lack of trees at all :) cycling is a good way to do a little sight seeing, to see a bit more than one could manage on foot.
I totally agree. You hit the nail. I came regularly in Copenhagen for work and visit some friends. CPH is bicycle friendly yes, but it felt totally confusing as a Dutchman. Sometimes you have no clue where to cycle. While you think it is sidewalk while it is cycling path and when you think you get it right you suddenly end up in a shared road with cars. With no warning signs. Not only the turn right option with cars is scary. When I reach an intersection (with traffic lights) in general It doesn't feel intuitive where to go left and left again what's first to narrow and doesn't make sense at all. While it can be improved and effective together with cars turn left but still on separated lanes. The bus stop is painful to see and way too dangerous when passengers getting off the bus. Urban planning is not always perfect and is not making sense and I hope they integrate the dutch approach step by step. The Danes by the way always in a hurry on a bike. In the Netherlands it is more relaxed.
The bright side is Copenhagen do care about cycling. You have a lot of space and wide bicycle lanes and cycling highways. And everybody wear helmets.
But the Netherlands is not perfect. We still have some improvements to do in the country such on safety. Like take bicycles on public transport especially on buses. What I really like in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. But also the Dutch way of cycling need some improvements like in many major Dutch cities it feels like anarchy on the road. While the Danes are more civilized on the bicycle (they even stop for red light) What is very confusing for car users. Also the introduction of e-bikes caused much accidents. And elderly people using (e-)bicycles above 70 years helmets and every year medical should be mandatory. And bicycle exam what I had on elementary school should not be an option but should be implied in Dutch law.