I love your creativity and idea on the rain catchment. Pay the structural engineer at your design company to review it and make suggestions, stamp it, and I hope you have fun with doing it your way.
Fortunately, we don't have to pay Schionning, and we pass any change through them before building. They also watch our videos as they are a sponsor of our project.
Things are moving along nicely and glad the city gave you some slack on removing the container from the yard. On the rain catchment - I cannot recall how many water tanks you have - but for consideration could you dedicate one tank to service both bathrooms and have that tank as the rain catchment ‘destination’ exclusively. It does not preventing you topping up via the water maker (or shore) but it ring fences the hygiene aspects and could in extremis introduce a brake on unnecessary water consumption in the bathrooms.😉👍⛵️
It's an interesting idea, but we prefer to have the choice to use any tank for any purpose, depending on the need. There are four tanks, two typically collect rain water, one to port, one to starboard. There are two other tanks that, one to each side. These typically get their water from the water maker unless there is enough rain to fill all tanks. In that case, we would test the water collected in the first two rain water tanks before transferring some to the other two tanks and then letting the rain water tanks refill. All tanks can also be filled by the water makers as well or by shore water. But when it comes to usage, we can use any tank for what we need. The main point of multiple tanks is so that no matter where the water is coming from, it goes into two tanks, not all four, and is then tested before we move some to the other tanks, if needed. When water is moved between tanks, we 'polish' it through filters as well.
Great progress this week. Looking forward to the Coppercoat going on. Not sure about the strength of the gutter, aesthetically and from a practical purpose it looks great. However a large person stepping on the outboard edge of the gutter is certainly going to load it significantly. But enough glass will take care of that, a test section is certainly the way to move forward. Make the gutter opening wide enough so it can be easily cleaned. 👍
Agree with the structural concerns mentioned elsewhere here but also consider the extra challenge keeping that trough clean…. Be it sand, debris, mossy mildew etc those troughs will require cleaning.
In order to avoid inefficiency for the water trap I'd do a 2 inch opening. This will ensure no water swaps across the trap. And for not to weaken the structure of the cabin top the trap should be outside the vertical walls. Otherwise this would act like a spring when sheet or mast loads try to tension the roof. Hope you made sure the windows leave enough height between the roof and the upper window edge or the ceiling inside. Consider also the piping below the trap for that.
the rainwater catchment looks practical and functional, but what came to my mind was dirty hands, I don't know what kind of filtration you where thinking of. but the undercut is more dificult to clean. and your hands maybe contaminated with, oil, fuel and grease from working on the boat, engine, winches ect. i don't know if the filter will get that out, and if it could cause long term heatlh effects.
Not too worried about that, if we get anything in the gutter like that, we can clean it. All water collected goes through some serious filtering as well.
Great work guys! Shame the fwd cradles didn't fit - will this be rectified on the kits going fwd? With your gutter design; I would suggest this be the very edge of your roof as the outboard upright of the gutter will finish that nicely. The section reminds me of a recessed SUP handle - inspiration? 😄
On the sup... no, but we did get the idea the recessed idea from other cats, like some Fountaine Pajot boats (Salina 48, for example). We will be telling Schionning about the cradle issue, so they should get it fixed. We aren't sure how far out we will go with the gutter, we'll figure that out when we get there :)
Another issue that might arise in the rain gutter is if you are putting filled radius’s on the right angles then walking along main deck you will occasionally get a sight line down the length of the gutter. Because the fills will be all free handed, there might be unsightly wobbles in the gutter. Sorry to be mentioning leverage earlier and now warping sight lines…. it feels like being negative but just wanting to raise things for you to think about. I’m sure you will do a good job.
I like the rain catchment system. I think it will work. But it may be harder to keep clean compared to the as-designed one with the PVC and the holes. Also, the grab rail functionality will work, but it will be harder to grab than a rail that stands up off of the surface so you can wrap your hand all the way around. So it is a compromise. Just as a thought, if you put cushions in the areas where you want to sit, maybe that will make the original system more workable since the cushions will keep your gluts up above the raised PVC.
@@SailingSVLynx Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. You couldn't clean inside the pvc without some kind of fish. But the valley just before the PVC would be easy to clean. Hopefully not much gunk would get inside the pipe itself.
Your rain catchment design looks like it will work fine .... I understand the choice to make it flush, my only concern would be if the volume of rain water run off will be caught in the channel (channel volume looks ok ..... more so that the velocity of the run off water whether from heavy rain or wind effected may push over the gap especilly with the flush gutter. Maybe a slight flare on the outer edge or even rather than a blunt bullnose maybe more of an undercut chanfer to enhance water capture (probably not an issue, if you are getting that much rain your probably gunna catch enough) The suggestion would be to consider how you might be incorporating your rear deck clears ..... it is a good idea to think about a clean flush stowage option now rather than just have them hanging rolled up ..... I think Leopard Catamarans have theirs nicely tucked away flush under their roof. You certainly would have room with your design, might just need to incorporate some sail track 4" in from channel moulding (underneath/coach roof ceiling edge)
If i was building your rail catchment system i would try to produce various lengths of the “inside portion” of your handhold area using fiberglass cloth. Should be able to rap fiberglass around a mandrel (ie. Plastic pipe) to create the required shape. Later these various lengths could be incorporated into your square shaped pieces of foam.
How did you get all the calculations/installment process/joinery regarding structural safety? Is that something Schionnings provided or did you hire a structural engineer? I'm designing my cat and looking for someone to do the structural simulation and adapt my plans accordingly
Thanks again for sharing the journey through the build. I do wonder about the strength of the rain gutter. Glass is strong, but the strength after going through four essentially 90 degree bends is uncertain to me. For it to handle the downwards force of a human (foot or bum) or any line temporarily led over the lip and tensioned (for whatever reason that comes about) seems uncertain to me. Not as strong as the uninterrupted planar sheet. But maybe I’m wrong? I’m sure you will make it good in any case. Thanks for sharing.
@@Hotzenplotz1 without using big amounts of glass and resin…. isn’t the leverage gained by the gutter greater than that of just a load on a planer sheet? I’m no engineer but just thinking about it on a gut level…. it seems that a load on the outside edge has the leverage of the depth of the gutter. More than it would have if it was simply sitting on the same spot on a planar sheet. Like I say, I could be wrong. And yeah, I’m sure you can make it as strong, but that might require a lot of glass.
@@tonyfromaus7855 No, sheet loads are horizontal as the ropes are moving horizontally across the roof and will therefore try to open or close the gutter. The cabin top is engineered by the naval architect to be strong with all the beams, walls, window stanchions and bulkheads. It's not just a planar sheet of fibreglass, it's always to be seen as a whole. At last the roof itself is not planar either. But if the gutter is placed wrong it can influence the strength negatively.
@@Hotzenplotz1 I wasn’t referring to ordinary sheet runs. Just imagining a line led over the edge and lashed to the toerail or cleat. Perhaps temporarily holding down a wayward dingy or a solar panel or whatever. But that’s not the main point. My point (and I may be wrong) is that if the roof was a plane then the weight of a man on the edge would presumably be ok. But after those right angles the depth of the gutter can be the leverage that a load on the top outboard edge would be applying to the first right angle. More leverage than a planar sheet would feel.
@@tonyfromaus7855 That's an argument, but it can be done with a little more glass and thicker core material. A beam becomes stronger if the distance from top to bottom is increased, therefore thicker core. And it doesn't matter if the outer edge flexes a bit.
There is a direct drain to the ocean that is controlled by an electric valve from the helm. Once it has rained for a bit, we can flip the switch and send the rest of that rainwater through the filter system, which sends it into dedicated rain water tanks that would not foul the rest of our water, if something went wrong.
For making stands for the catamaran, you need just wery bottom part of the MDF and glass. Upper part is useless. There will be several tons on each cradle. So make it proper strength ...
21:40 woo that top shelf is warped in middle badly. I'm afraid if you don't address that right away it will transfer that bend to your foam boards and that sure will cause issues when comes time to use those parts.
The O'Kelly's RUclips channel is a good one to watch. One of the latest videos talks about performance verses non performance catamarans. You should go watch. I myself am a mono-hull sailor and just have never warmed to catamarans. But interesting to watch the RUclips channels that are building these boats. Did you see Sailing AWEN? They were T-boned while at anchor by another catamaran. Their hull cracked pretty bad. Latest videos show the repair.
Thanks for the suggestions, but I've watched all the O'Kelly's episodes as they come out since day one, along with pretty much every catamaran channel out there for many, many years, including many monohull channels as well. We've been planning our voyage for over 20 years now, going from a thought, to a dream, to a plan, to now building our boat for our eventual voyage :)
@@SailingSVLynx I should have known you watch all the catamaran channels. Twenty years plus in the making. Wow. I've been sailing forty years, but up until 2022 it was all up and down the East coast. Finally took my boat out into the ocean in 2022. Took her to Bermuda. I thoroughly enjoyed the voyage, out and back. I'm ready for more long trips. This year we're planning to go North for a bit. Wishing you a speedy, successful build so you can start your adventures.
New Rain catchment - way to complex construction, extra time and expense, ongoing maintenance, structurally weaker than other options. IMO, not a good option.
We plan to have a water maker, but that's not 'free' water. It costs power and slowly wears out parts. Rain is cheaper to collect, so when mother nature offers some, why not collect it?
Between Brian and the Bobcat, it's a dead heat for MVP on this project so far!
🙃
I love your creativity and idea on the rain catchment. Pay the structural engineer at your design company to review it and make suggestions, stamp it, and I hope you have fun with doing it your way.
Fortunately, we don't have to pay Schionning, and we pass any change through them before building. They also watch our videos as they are a sponsor of our project.
Things are moving along nicely and glad the city gave you some slack on removing the container from the yard. On the rain catchment - I cannot recall how many water tanks you have - but for consideration could you dedicate one tank to service both bathrooms and have that tank as the rain catchment ‘destination’ exclusively. It does not preventing you topping up via the water maker (or shore) but it ring fences the hygiene aspects and could in extremis introduce a brake on unnecessary water consumption in the bathrooms.😉👍⛵️
It's an interesting idea, but we prefer to have the choice to use any tank for any purpose, depending on the need. There are four tanks, two typically collect rain water, one to port, one to starboard. There are two other tanks that, one to each side. These typically get their water from the water maker unless there is enough rain to fill all tanks. In that case, we would test the water collected in the first two rain water tanks before transferring some to the other two tanks and then letting the rain water tanks refill. All tanks can also be filled by the water makers as well or by shore water. But when it comes to usage, we can use any tank for what we need. The main point of multiple tanks is so that no matter where the water is coming from, it goes into two tanks, not all four, and is then tested before we move some to the other tanks, if needed. When water is moved between tanks, we 'polish' it through filters as well.
Great progress this week. Looking forward to the Coppercoat going on. Not sure about the strength of the gutter, aesthetically and from a practical purpose it looks great. However a large person stepping on the outboard edge of the gutter is certainly going to load it significantly. But enough glass will take care of that, a test section is certainly the way to move forward. Make the gutter opening wide enough so it can be easily cleaned. 👍
That's the plan!
Agree with the structural concerns mentioned elsewhere here but also consider the extra challenge keeping that trough clean…. Be it sand, debris, mossy mildew etc those troughs will require cleaning.
Yet, they are far easier to clean that the original plan with holes drilled in PVC pipe. :)
@@SailingSVLynx Yes, the holes in the pipe were going to be a nightmare to try to clean. Your design makes much, much more sense! Well done!
Keep up the awesome progress, well done so far.
Thanks, will do!
In order to avoid inefficiency for the water trap I'd do a 2 inch opening. This will ensure no water swaps across the trap. And for not to weaken the structure of the cabin top the trap should be outside the vertical walls. Otherwise this would act like a spring when sheet or mast loads try to tension the roof. Hope you made sure the windows leave enough height between the roof and the upper window edge or the ceiling inside. Consider also the piping below the trap for that.
We already plan to have it outside, in the hangover portion that is just for shading the windows.
the rainwater catchment looks practical and functional, but what came to my mind was dirty hands, I don't know what kind of filtration you where thinking of. but the undercut is more dificult to clean. and your hands maybe contaminated with, oil, fuel and grease from working on the boat, engine, winches ect. i don't know if the filter will get that out, and if it could cause long term heatlh effects.
Not too worried about that, if we get anything in the gutter like that, we can clean it. All water collected goes through some serious filtering as well.
Great work guys! Shame the fwd cradles didn't fit - will this be rectified on the kits going fwd? With your gutter design; I would suggest this be the very edge of your roof as the outboard upright of the gutter will finish that nicely. The section reminds me of a recessed SUP handle - inspiration? 😄
On the sup... no, but we did get the idea the recessed idea from other cats, like some Fountaine Pajot boats (Salina 48, for example). We will be telling Schionning about the cradle issue, so they should get it fixed. We aren't sure how far out we will go with the gutter, we'll figure that out when we get there :)
It always takes a while during rain for the water to run clean so make sure the gutter is easy to clean
No doubt.
Another issue that might arise in the rain gutter is if you are putting filled radius’s on the right angles then walking along main deck you will occasionally get a sight line down the length of the gutter. Because the fills will be all free handed, there might be unsightly wobbles in the gutter. Sorry to be mentioning leverage earlier and now warping sight lines…. it feels like being negative but just wanting to raise things for you to think about. I’m sure you will do a good job.
We will make sure it looks nice... we promise. 😁
I like the rain catchment system. I think it will work. But it may be harder to keep clean compared to the as-designed one with the PVC and the holes. Also, the grab rail functionality will work, but it will be harder to grab than a rail that stands up off of the surface so you can wrap your hand all the way around. So it is a compromise. Just as a thought, if you put cushions in the areas where you want to sit, maybe that will make the original system more workable since the cushions will keep your gluts up above the raised PVC.
We think the PVC would be harder to clean. How would you get inside? The recessed slot can have a sponge inserted to wipe it out.
@@SailingSVLynx Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. You couldn't clean inside the pvc without some kind of fish. But the valley just before the PVC would be easy to clean. Hopefully not much gunk would get inside the pipe itself.
Super intéressant et vraiment sympathiques vous êtes😉
Thanks!
Your rain catchment design looks like it will work fine .... I understand the choice to make it flush, my only concern would be if the volume of rain water run off will be caught in the channel (channel volume looks ok ..... more so that the velocity of the run off water whether from heavy rain or wind effected may push over the gap especilly with the flush gutter. Maybe a slight flare on the outer edge or even rather than a blunt bullnose maybe more of an undercut chanfer to enhance water capture (probably not an issue, if you are getting that much rain your probably gunna catch enough)
The suggestion would be to consider how you might be incorporating your rear deck clears ..... it is a good idea to think about a clean flush stowage option now rather than just have them hanging rolled up ..... I think Leopard Catamarans have theirs nicely tucked away flush under their roof. You certainly would have room with your design, might just need to incorporate some sail track 4" in from channel moulding (underneath/coach roof ceiling edge)
We plan to build a mockup first and test it before messing with the real cabin top.
If i was building your rail catchment system i would try to produce various lengths of the “inside portion” of your handhold area using fiberglass cloth. Should be able to rap fiberglass around a mandrel (ie. Plastic pipe) to create the required shape. Later these various lengths could be incorporated into your square shaped pieces of foam.
We are looking into that :)
I think mechanical fasteners (bolts) will need to be incorporated into your design. Looks nice.
Thanks, but fiberglass layers will be very strong.
Is the roof for your helm included in the rainwater collection system? It looks like it'd collect a lot.
It will. The hardtop will drain forward, down a tube, to the cabin top collection system.
How did you get all the calculations/installment process/joinery regarding structural safety? Is that something Schionnings provided or did you hire a structural engineer? I'm designing my cat and looking for someone to do the structural simulation and adapt my plans accordingly
Schionning took care of that, but I wish you the best of luck in your new design!
Thanks again for sharing the journey through the build. I do wonder about the strength of the rain gutter. Glass is strong, but the strength after going through four essentially 90 degree bends is uncertain to me. For it to handle the downwards force of a human (foot or bum) or any line temporarily led over the lip and tensioned (for whatever reason that comes about) seems uncertain to me. Not as strong as the uninterrupted planar sheet. But maybe I’m wrong? I’m sure you will make it good in any case. Thanks for sharing.
If done properly this is no problem. But read my comment on sheet loads and the position of the trap.
@@Hotzenplotz1 without using big amounts of glass and resin…. isn’t the leverage gained by the gutter greater than that of just a load on a planer sheet? I’m no engineer but just thinking about it on a gut level…. it seems that a load on the outside edge has the leverage of the depth of the gutter. More than it would have if it was simply sitting on the same spot on a planar sheet. Like I say, I could be wrong. And yeah, I’m sure you can make it as strong, but that might require a lot of glass.
@@tonyfromaus7855 No, sheet loads are horizontal as the ropes are moving horizontally across the roof and will therefore try to open or close the gutter. The cabin top is engineered by the naval architect to be strong with all the beams, walls, window stanchions and bulkheads. It's not just a planar sheet of fibreglass, it's always to be seen as a whole. At last the roof itself is not planar either. But if the gutter is placed wrong it can influence the strength negatively.
@@Hotzenplotz1 I wasn’t referring to ordinary sheet runs. Just imagining a line led over the edge and lashed to the toerail or cleat. Perhaps temporarily holding down a wayward dingy or a solar panel or whatever. But that’s not the main point. My point (and I may be wrong) is that if the roof was a plane then the weight of a man on the edge would presumably be ok. But after those right angles the depth of the gutter can be the leverage that a load on the top outboard edge would be applying to the first right angle. More leverage than a planar sheet would feel.
@@tonyfromaus7855 That's an argument, but it can be done with a little more glass and thicker core material. A beam becomes stronger if the distance from top to bottom is increased, therefore thicker core. And it doesn't matter if the outer edge flexes a bit.
love the idea of rain water catchment but how are you going to let first 3 minutes of rain go overboard to clean off roof befor storage
There is a direct drain to the ocean that is controlled by an electric valve from the helm. Once it has rained for a bit, we can flip the switch and send the rest of that rainwater through the filter system, which sends it into dedicated rain water tanks that would not foul the rest of our water, if something went wrong.
For making stands for the catamaran, you need just wery bottom part of the MDF and glass. Upper part is useless.
There will be several tons on each cradle. So make it proper strength ...
These were sent by Schionning, and work well. Other boats (many) have used them, including another 1520 that is ahead of us.
21:40 woo that top shelf is warped in middle badly. I'm afraid if you don't address that right away it will transfer that bend to your foam boards and that sure will cause issues when comes time to use those parts.
As we wrote in the video, we are fixing them. :)
The O'Kelly's RUclips channel is a good one to watch. One of the latest videos talks about performance verses non performance catamarans. You should go watch. I myself am a mono-hull sailor and just have never warmed to catamarans. But interesting to watch the RUclips channels that are building these boats. Did you see Sailing AWEN? They were T-boned while at anchor by another catamaran. Their hull cracked pretty bad. Latest videos show the repair.
Thanks for the suggestions, but I've watched all the O'Kelly's episodes as they come out since day one, along with pretty much every catamaran channel out there for many, many years, including many monohull channels as well. We've been planning our voyage for over 20 years now, going from a thought, to a dream, to a plan, to now building our boat for our eventual voyage :)
@@SailingSVLynx I should have known you watch all the catamaran channels. Twenty years plus in the making. Wow. I've been sailing forty years, but up until 2022 it was all up and down the East coast. Finally took my boat out into the ocean in 2022. Took her to Bermuda. I thoroughly enjoyed the voyage, out and back. I'm ready for more long trips. This year we're planning to go North for a bit.
Wishing you a speedy, successful build so you can start your adventures.
You probably already know this. But one thing you can do to get epoxy to fully harden faster is put a black tarp on it (assuming it is in the sun).
Yes, but thanks in case we hadn't.
Do you guys own the bobcat? Rent? Or borrow? They are around 20,000 USD or more aren't they?
A friend owns it and lets us borrow it whenever we want. It's nice to have good friends.
New Rain catchment - way to complex construction, extra time and expense, ongoing maintenance, structurally weaker than other options. IMO, not a good option.
Thanks for your thoughts. We will be passing this design thruogh Schionning first.
I am building aboat in my backyard and I need Brain for a couple of years if you can spare him
Get your own Brian ;)
How about a water-maker, way less trouble, why collect rain and bug crap into your water tank....
We plan to have a water maker, but that's not 'free' water. It costs power and slowly wears out parts. Rain is cheaper to collect, so when mother nature offers some, why not collect it?
your design looks good, but I would use a half PVC pipe at the bottom .... should be better for Water transport than glasfiber on foam
regards
Oliver
We were just working on a possible design with that option. :)