+WinterTreeCrafts I have great respect for armorers and the work you guys do. I am a utility blacksmith and a very patient man, I can make oddities of all kinds, yet I still do not think I would have the patience to do what you do as effectively as you do. Excellent work, keep your hammer swinging and your anvil singing and have a wonderful day!
Ah Crap, I just accidentally deleted someone's comment. The answer to your now invisible question as to why I havn't made more of these videos is that they take a tremendous amount of time, at least for an extremely amateur video-editor such as myself. I've also been building a new shop and havn't been doing much commission work lately. I have some long-term plans to make a few more, but its a few years off.
Informative and inspiring. This is the way all instruction videos should be made. Well planned and well made, no wasted words, you know what you're talking about and you know what the viewer would like to know, and you explain why things should be done a certain way - why anneal, why choose carbon steel, etc. You speak clearly, no babbling and stuttering, you speak with authority. Superb stuff. Thank you. I look forward to viewing more of your videos
Having been dragged through what seemed like dozens of medieval armory museums by my father when I was a kid (we lived in Italy, Switzerland, and Spain) it's really nice to see something of how it was made. Thank you for sharing this; I hope you share more such things!
Its the "bulgar" style from Oldworldanvils. I got it back around 2003 if I recall. It was much cheaper back then, the shipping cost the same as the anvil. Its around #125 if I recall. You don't need a huge anvil for armour work. I'll be getting a 200+ pounder shortly and this little fella will become the riveting/secondary anvil.
I'll agree with the general consensus that I found this enlightening, educational, and suprisingly funny. Kept catching myself chuckling to some of the statements made and the wry sense of humour (had me at Planishing). Knew some details about armour reproduction, though have never committed hammer to steel yet, but this video does a really good job of delivering the essential basics and knowlege behind your techniques. Kudos guys, I wish you all the best :)
As for stainless steel, its not really lighter, but due to the properties of the material it is more resistant to dents and deformation and has a bit more of a springy quality to it than mild steel, so you can usually use thinner stainless steel than you could regular steel and achieve the same or greater durability. So, stainless armour is generally lighter because it can be thinner, just as spring steel armour is the lightest, because its usually the thinnest.
Fascinating! I always think, "Yanno, I bet I could do that" until I see a video like this and realize just how many years of practice and talent have to go into even making something so "simple." The tempering part was particularly awesome. I've read about the basics of tempering vs. hardening but never actually seen it so perfectly illustrated before.
+tyler holtz You cannot heat-treat mild steel, which is almost certainly what you purchased from the hardware store. You need a steel alloy that has minimum carbon content in order to be heat-treatable. 40-60 points of carbon is the range that is best suited for armour. Mild steel has less than 20 points. (Points meaning tenths of a percent) Generally speaking you'll need to special order heat-treatable steels from businesses that specialize in steel products. Hardware stores are a great way to overpay for small pieces of common stuff.
Which makes it something other than mild steel. Theres also case carburization, but both are impractically expensive and laborious for this application.
So, if you *are* annealing between passes, but you are getting the potatoe chip thing, slow down some and as the ripples form, pound them smooth over a stake or an anvil, don't let them multiply and get steep and numerous. Any inward pointing corners need to be rounded out with a file, or they'll crack almost no matter what. Odds are, its a lack of heat. Cold raising only works with frequent annealing. If the metal is getting really stubborn to move, its telling you something. Cook it.
Fluting is generally the final stage of forming, done after planishing and fitting but before doing any holes or articulation. Some tweaking on the fit will be necessary post-flutes as well. I'm mediocre at fluting at best though, so take that with a grain of salt. I'm sure others do it differently. Ultimately, do whatever works best for you.
Now this is art! I figured I should finally leave a comment having referred to this video time and again. Thanks very much for this very detailed direction for the layman-wannabe-blacksmithing-noob-guy.
I just so happen to be reading that one right now. Most of the stuff I've read only covers mild steel, which is unsuitable for my needs. I hope I get more information as I read the book more.
One day... Though this wasn't really meant as a tutorial, more of a "This is how much work it takes". At some point I would like to do a tutorial on some basic stuff, in additional to more "marketing" videos.
For me it was a tutorial because very few people put up armor making videos of any sort. So really any sort of video is helpful in teaching people who want to do what you do. Even if thats not the intended purpose. Thanks :)
I think the spring steel part may have some modern day applications. I was thinking of using a custom ribbon spring to shorten the acceleration time of a velomobile and give it a little extra power for uphill climbs while remaining within the bounds of local laws. Now all I have to do is get the materials, tools, and do the math.
Are you annealing between passes? Do the edges of the metal look like a wavy potatoe chip as your hammer passes get near them? Corners and sharp angles pointing inward towards the plate will have a habit of cracking, but if you are getting cracks at the edge of the plate you are likely work-hardening/over-working the metal and eventually it just reaches the point where it just cracks.
I mostly use 1050 medium carbon steel. For a beginner, 1018 "Mild Steel" is fine and cheap. Do not purchase from a hardware store, you will pay 10x more than you need to. Any local metal fabrication or welding place will likely be happy to sell you sheet stock. For a few bucks they'll even cut it to manageable size. Expect to pay $30-$80 for a 4'x8' sheet depending on thickness and your location. A company called "admiral steel" also ships small quantities of whatever you could want.
For training blades or live cutting in the western tradition, I'd recommend Albion Arms, Arms and Armour and Darkwood Armory. Angus trim is also a name thats been big over the years though personally they aren't to my taste. Those are the big names in production "real" swords, in that they are actual well balanced properly shaped swords, rather than sword-like objects. Fully custom is a LOT of money. Head over to a website/forum called myarmoury they'll have a lot of info for you.
Fortunately, if two plates are rubbing together such that they'll abrade off your protective layer of wax, they'll also manage to do a fairly decent job of keeping that spot rust free, as they'll abrade the corrosion off as well (within reason). Now, as to what the polish will look like.... thats another matter...
For modern armour you are generally looking at: Mild steel (1014) - Soft, cheap, not heat-treatable. Start here Stainless Steel (usually 304) - Expensive, not really heat-treatable, tough to work. Won't rust though. Spring Steel (I think 1050 is best) - Inexpensive, easy to work, heat-treatable. There are other spring alloys like 4160 and 5160. 5160 in particular is spendier, but I think 1050 is best (and most period). Then theres spring stainless, which is a whole other can of worms..
Thanks so much for your help, so nice to encounter craftsmen that take the time to help the newbies. :P Now to make that helm, and join the order of the knights who say: "Ni!"...
Anything resembling your videos and/or skill at camera work and editing is purely coincidental and accidental, I assure you ;) By the way, thanks for all your amazing videos over the years, they've helped me wrap my head around a few techniques over the years.
As for the rest: You can use a kiln, but a faster and cheaper method is to use a forge or, for spot heating, a torch. Don't bother with a basic propane torch, use an oxygen-propane rig with a rosebud tip. To anneal, just bring the steel up to cherry red (~1500 deg. F) and let it cool as slowly as possible. Don't leave it at cherry red any longer than you have to in order to make it an even heat. Tempering is far more complicated and specific and I can't really cover it in a youtube comment.
The "stronger" the material, the lighter the gauge you can use. A very rough rule of thumb is 14 gauge mild is as tough as 16 gauge stainless is as tough as 18 gauge spring is as tough as 19/20 gauge spring stainless. However, once you get to spring stainless, IMO you hit the point of diminishing returns where the edges are so thin, they are hard to keep from being sharp and the weight difference is so small, its not worth the money and trouble, except for the rust factor.
Honestly, I wouldn't obsess so much over it. Once you are in spring territory, other factors have a greater effect, and if you are not an experienced armourer, spring stainless will be more difficult to work with. Your skill in designing and shaping the metal will play a far larger role in making a well-fit and light harness than shaving a few ounces here and there due to material choice.
What kind of steel alloy do you use? Would I be able to acquire a good steel for this from a Home Depot or Lowes? I'm rather limited in my funds and any suggestions for a good metal to use by a beginner would be appreciated. I have the basic hands own skills down but still need to perfect them. Thank you so much for your time and keep up the great work! :D So great to see people keeping what is definitely an art alive.
@erichmatt For riveting on two leather straps that will attach the poleyns to the thigh armour. For knees that will be independent a set of holes are punched at the top to lace an arming point through.
Barely touched the stuff since college. It was good to do during class but in terms of making more than 50 cents an hour, not so much. How did you know I ever made maille?
Question: When doing fluting on say a gauntlet, what is the "work-order"? Is it first make everything fit perfectly with the holes drilled, THEN marking the fluting and punching them in? Thanks!
Dear Eric, where did you get your metal dishing bowls on the stumps from. I have been looking for those, but can't seem to find them anywhere. Your help would be greatly appreciated. ,,🙂 Kind regards, Warmold from the Netherlands
Those dishes look like the bottoms off of decommissioned compressed gas bottles -- cut off and smoothed. There are other ways to make compound curves (bowl like shapes) than "sinking" the sheet metal into a dish. Look on The Armour Archive for " soft hammer/hard anvil" quasi-raising, which can raise a bowl from flat sheet on a flat anvil top.
Hey, do you know any good sources that explain the different types of steels? Preferably a guide specifically for armorers? Is it true stainless steel is lighter?
WinterTreeCrafts I call it Peening. I use it to make ladles, spoons, and Shield Bosses. Though I think my method is a bit older. No fancy forms or swage blocks, just get it up to cherry and pound it into the end-grain of a log. Then minor straightening if needed using a small ball stake. No worries, I don't think we're competitors in the market. I make Lemellar armour, not plate.
Thanks dude, i read up on annealing after i posted the comment. I was thinking about doing this in a pottery-kiln (? No idea what their called in english, hope you get the idea), will 1000 celsius do? How hot and how long for annealing, and how hot for tempering, im using 1,2mm mild steel. Also, its galvanized, will this have any effect? :)
The pottery kiln will do, as it can heat the metal past red heat at 1000°C. Don't use galvanized in hot work of any kind, as red heat will vaporize zinc, and you'd be breathing that. At best it will give you a monstrous headache. At worst it kills.
Its an NC tool whisper daddy four burner. I actually have never been terribly impressed with it. We just picked up a Chile Forge single burner for little stuff and it is a big step up in quality and so I would recommend their forges over the NC tool models.
I might just end up using 4160, as that is the preferred material of the guy who's workshop I'm using. If you could tell me more about spring stainless, I would be very appreciative. If you don't have time, I understand.
4160 approximates carbon steel, with just a pinch of alloying elements lightly sprinkled in -- and 60 points of carbon. It has an excellent report as sword blade material. If it's good for swords, it's also good for knives, possibly in a harder temper if desired -- not being subjected to the shock and levering of a sword strike. Spring stainless, likewise best for knife type application. There, you have carbon for hardening, plus good corrosion resistance. See also surgical stainless.
Your saw sounds horrible because the buckle is hitting a resonance. Either feed faster or slower(not sure the speed your running on that saw), and chuck up that buckle in something sturdier than pliers. Maybe a tight vice style plier? Basically the hold on the buckle from the pliers is just loose enough to allow vibration, like a windchime, or triangle.
Johnson's paste wax or a more expensive and specialized product called "Renaissance Wax" are the two most common I see folks use. As for videos and such, look up Eric Dube, he's got fantastic videos on making armour.
I'm more or less self-taught with the help of videos, forums and books. Armourers are very loathe to take on apprentices but generally pretty helpful on forums. Unless you know someone in the trade, its difficult to find anything resembling instruction. Best bet is start reading, watch videos, and grab some tools and set to work and start experimenting.
Last questions: What wax is used to protect the armor, and can you recommend any in-dept videos or books on armour making? (The more the better!) Thanks!
@WTC, where can iI buy a 1050 steel sheet because I searched around with no success. Every metal supplier that I've asked only carried mild steel sheets (1008, or 1018).
Question, apologies if it's a dumb one: Why does dishing thin the metal to the point of uselessness (potentially) while raising doesn't? It looks like you're doing exactly the same thing; smacking a sheet of metal with a hammer against a curved surface, except in one case the curved surface is concave, and in the other it's convex
Really bad at explaining things but we'll have a go. take a piece of paper. Try and push it into a hole working from the edges to the center and notice how it crumples based on the pressure you apply. Now take a second piece of paper and, over an upright form, work the paper downwards by pushing from just past the form your using and working out to the edges. Doesn't really explain it well but hopefully should at least let you see how the principal works and hopefully give you a better idea of it.
LunaLover231 You can work the problem out for yourself with a bit of modelling clay. Gently use a mallet or hammer to simulate the action you would make working with steel. A lot of little mysteries can be worked out without bruning fuel, metal and muscle.
So many questions... How do you deal with rust-protection in areas with much grinding.Like in the rivet of a jont, or where the pauldrons scratch against the breastplate.
Thank you for the cideo. Now that is how you make real medieval armor contrary to other fake armorers who make fake armors with out heat treatment just for the looks other than functionality.
any idea where i can pick up a good dishing form, im trying getting into blacksmithing as a hobby, and i dont think ill go straight to raising for putting curves on things like calf plates , thanks
So say I was simply making armor for looks and not functionality (ex. costumes). Would simply dishing suit for such work do, or is raising critical for simply look and design?
Thats probably a matter of opinion. I can only speak to 14th century kit as thats what I personally work with. For both purposes you *can* make some styles of harness utilizing only dishing and other very simple techniques. However, if you are able to raise and do other more advanced techniques the end product will be superior both in terms of aesthetic and design (articulation, fitting etc). On the plus side, because its only for costume you don't have to worry as much about thinning the metal, which means you can dish more deeply. If your technique is well executed, dished armour can get pretty close to looking "right", but can also very easily turn out looking round, clunky and "medievalesque". Depending on how serious you are, your best bet is probably to spend some time in a museum looking at pieces similar to what you want to make and run through in your head how to make that shape.
johhnytrash Yeah, DIY construction turned out to be far more of an undertaking than we had imagined, and we had imagined it would be pretty rough to begin with. We're hoping to be finally sleeping at the new place next month, with the workshop to follow later in the summer. I'm still making gorgets (and if you hit reload on the two gorget pages you'll see the new versions) but I can't say for sure at this point when I'll be taking commissions again. Hopefully before the year is out.
WinterTreeCrafts Hey, I'm an amateur comic artist and leather craftier, I'm very well aware of how long commissions can take and the circumstances that keep you from them. Just know I'll be watching and I'll get in the queue as soon as it's open again.
may i ask you why not using ( expecially for the Planishing ) a mechanical or pneumatical hammer, something like a Sewing machine with a hammer in the place of the needle, with variable speed and power and size of the hammer? wouldn't it be faster, less boring and less fatiguing?
From what I understand, those hammers are very worth it and as you say, are faster, less boring and less tendon-killing if your work is such that you can actually utilize one. For volume production with a large number of similarly shaped parts, hands down they are a good tool to have. I havn't been able to personally try one but from what I understand, folks like me who aim for *very* assymetrical and historically accurate shaping and lines, its very difficult to match the curvatures of the piece to the anvil/hammer on a pneumatic machine. Theres just too much variation and not enough matched pieces to get a decent production run going. At some point I would love to try one to see if thats true or not. Because I freakin hate planishing.
because real man use a fucking hammer (roars mightily) , also there is the whole preserving the art and the fact that my hand can more precisely strike what I need and do so at more angles.
+Cheeky Bastard Sorry for the long delayed response, been extremely busy lately. Most armourers use a paste wax on any parts that have been polished to keep them from rusting. Johnson's Paste Wax on the cheap and easy to find end of things and Renaissance Wax on the expensive and order it online end of things.
+WinterTreeCrafts Thank you for your response. I found it perplexing to see hammered steel shining after a few years and I know machine oil doesn't stop rusting because I tried it. Thank you again for your response.
+WinterTreeCrafts I have great respect for armorers and the work you guys do. I am a utility blacksmith and a very patient man, I can make oddities of all kinds, yet I still do not think I would have the patience to do what you do as effectively as you do. Excellent work, keep your hammer swinging and your anvil singing and have a wonderful day!
Ah Crap, I just accidentally deleted someone's comment. The answer to your now invisible question as to why I havn't made more of these videos is that they take a tremendous amount of time, at least for an extremely amateur video-editor such as myself. I've also been building a new shop and havn't been doing much commission work lately. I have some long-term plans to make a few more, but its a few years off.
that face when you dont roll your edges
your shop is immaculate. i dream of having a shop such as this. great work
Informative and inspiring. This is the way all instruction videos should be made. Well planned and well made, no wasted words, you know what you're talking about and you know what the viewer would like to know, and you explain why things should be done a certain way - why anneal, why choose carbon steel, etc. You speak clearly, no babbling and stuttering, you speak with authority. Superb stuff. Thank you. I look forward to viewing more of your videos
Such detail! It's lovely to see true artists blacksmithing real pieces nowadays!
Great watching a craftsman at work.
Excellent craftsmanship. Very informative and educational. Last video 5 years. Please continue to make more. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Having been dragged through what seemed like dozens of medieval armory museums by my father when I was a kid (we lived in Italy, Switzerland, and Spain) it's really nice to see something of how it was made. Thank you for sharing this; I hope you share more such things!
One of the best Armoursmith Videos i have ever watched!
Its the "bulgar" style from Oldworldanvils. I got it back around 2003 if I recall. It was much cheaper back then, the shipping cost the same as the anvil. Its around #125 if I recall. You don't need a huge anvil for armour work. I'll be getting a 200+ pounder shortly and this little fella will become the riveting/secondary anvil.
I'll agree with the general consensus that I found this enlightening, educational, and suprisingly funny. Kept catching myself chuckling to some of the statements made and the wry sense of humour (had me at Planishing). Knew some details about armour reproduction, though have never committed hammer to steel yet, but this video does a really good job of delivering the essential basics and knowlege behind your techniques. Kudos guys, I wish you all the best :)
Beautiful work, your video nicely shows the difference from a smith and an armourer
As for stainless steel, its not really lighter, but due to the properties of the material it is more resistant to dents and deformation and has a bit more of a springy quality to it than mild steel, so you can usually use thinner stainless steel than you could regular steel and achieve the same or greater durability.
So, stainless armour is generally lighter because it can be thinner, just as spring steel armour is the lightest, because its usually the thinnest.
Wow! What a craftmanship!
Thanks again for answering my questions about armor making.
Great Video and Great Job on this part. Keep up the great work. Would love to see more videos.
Fascinating! I always think, "Yanno, I bet I could do that" until I see a video like this and realize just how many years of practice and talent have to go into even making something so "simple." The tempering part was particularly awesome. I've read about the basics of tempering vs. hardening but never actually seen it so perfectly illustrated before.
You have so many dishing formes, but you choosed raising method, this is real true, respect :D
Great video, great shop, great craftsman.
Modren remarkable craftmanship.
Amazing video. So informative and great camera shots
This was a beautiful video. I wish there were more like it. Best of luck, in future endeavors.
that is truly art to behold!
Plan to order a Gorget as soon as i take my measurements!
+tyler holtz You cannot heat-treat mild steel, which is almost certainly what you purchased from the hardware store. You need a steel alloy that has minimum carbon content in order to be heat-treatable. 40-60 points of carbon is the range that is best suited for armour. Mild steel has less than 20 points. (Points meaning tenths of a percent)
Generally speaking you'll need to special order heat-treatable steels from businesses that specialize in steel products. Hardware stores are a great way to overpay for small pieces of common stuff.
Which makes it something other than mild steel. Theres also case carburization, but both are impractically expensive and laborious for this application.
Great! Nice way to illustrate your fine work!
So, if you *are* annealing between passes, but you are getting the potatoe chip thing, slow down some and as the ripples form, pound them smooth over a stake or an anvil, don't let them multiply and get steep and numerous.
Any inward pointing corners need to be rounded out with a file, or they'll crack almost no matter what.
Odds are, its a lack of heat. Cold raising only works with frequent annealing. If the metal is getting really stubborn to move, its telling you something. Cook it.
You my man are one very skilled man. I loved watching the vdeo and has "liked" so keep it up.
ATVB
Roger from UK
Fluting is generally the final stage of forming, done after planishing and fitting but before doing any holes or articulation. Some tweaking on the fit will be necessary post-flutes as well. I'm mediocre at fluting at best though, so take that with a grain of salt. I'm sure others do it differently. Ultimately, do whatever works best for you.
Wish you would make more videos like these! Gauntlets!
One day....
Now this is art! I figured I should finally leave a comment having referred to this video time and again. Thanks very much for this very detailed direction for the layman-wannabe-blacksmithing-noob-guy.
awesome video! Thanks for showing what you do. I enjoyed your sense of humor as well :)
This video was very educational and entertaining. Thank you. Also reminded me of that show "how its made" lol
Really enjoyed the video, thanks for making it.
I just so happen to be reading that one right now. Most of the stuff I've read only covers mild steel, which is unsuitable for my needs. I hope I get more information as I read the book more.
you must make more armor tutorials!
One day... Though this wasn't really meant as a tutorial, more of a "This is how much work it takes".
At some point I would like to do a tutorial on some basic stuff, in additional to more "marketing" videos.
For me it was a tutorial because very few people put up armor making videos of any sort. So really any sort of video is helpful in teaching people who want to do what you do. Even if thats not the intended purpose. Thanks :)
It was really helpful as it pretty much explained step for step how it is done. Obviously one has to experiment a bit but this here sows the basics.
I love your work!
I think the spring steel part may have some modern day applications. I was thinking of using a custom ribbon spring to shorten the acceleration time of a velomobile and give it a little extra power for uphill climbs while remaining within the bounds of local laws. Now all I have to do is get the materials, tools, and do the math.
Wow! That’s really nice!!!
Are you annealing between passes? Do the edges of the metal look like a wavy potatoe chip as your hammer passes get near them? Corners and sharp angles pointing inward towards the plate will have a habit of cracking, but if you are getting cracks at the edge of the plate you are likely work-hardening/over-working the metal and eventually it just reaches the point where it just cracks.
Excellent video, where did you learn your craft? If you don't mind me asking. And where could one learn such an art?
I mostly use 1050 medium carbon steel. For a beginner, 1018 "Mild Steel" is fine and cheap. Do not purchase from a hardware store, you will pay 10x more than you need to. Any local metal fabrication or welding place will likely be happy to sell you sheet stock. For a few bucks they'll even cut it to manageable size. Expect to pay $30-$80 for a 4'x8' sheet depending on thickness and your location.
A company called "admiral steel" also ships small quantities of whatever you could want.
For training blades or live cutting in the western tradition, I'd recommend Albion Arms, Arms and Armour and Darkwood Armory. Angus trim is also a name thats been big over the years though personally they aren't to my taste.
Those are the big names in production "real" swords, in that they are actual well balanced properly shaped swords, rather than sword-like objects.
Fully custom is a LOT of money. Head over to a website/forum called myarmoury they'll have a lot of info for you.
Ok. Thanks a lot man. You really cleared things up for me.
If this doesn't work out for you dude your voice is totally awesome to hear narrate some shows lol
Fortunately, if two plates are rubbing together such that they'll abrade off your protective layer of wax, they'll also manage to do a fairly decent job of keeping that spot rust free, as they'll abrade the corrosion off as well (within reason). Now, as to what the polish will look like.... thats another matter...
For modern armour you are generally looking at:
Mild steel (1014) - Soft, cheap, not heat-treatable. Start here
Stainless Steel (usually 304) - Expensive, not really heat-treatable, tough to work. Won't rust though.
Spring Steel (I think 1050 is best) - Inexpensive, easy to work, heat-treatable.
There are other spring alloys like 4160 and 5160. 5160 in particular is spendier, but I think 1050 is best (and most period).
Then theres spring stainless, which is a whole other can of worms..
Thanks so much for your help, so nice to encounter craftsmen that take the time to help the newbies. :P Now to make that helm, and join the order of the knights who say: "Ni!"...
An apprenticeship from this place would seem really cool, shame I live too far away.
Do you still come to youtube? Im gonna build a play list of all the armorers ln youtube eventually. There are less then i would have thought.
Anything resembling your videos and/or skill at camera work and editing is purely coincidental and accidental, I assure you ;)
By the way, thanks for all your amazing videos over the years, they've helped me wrap my head around a few techniques over the years.
As for the rest:
You can use a kiln, but a faster and cheaper method is to use a forge or, for spot heating, a torch. Don't bother with a basic propane torch, use an oxygen-propane rig with a rosebud tip.
To anneal, just bring the steel up to cherry red (~1500 deg. F) and let it cool as slowly as possible. Don't leave it at cherry red any longer than you have to in order to make it an even heat.
Tempering is far more complicated and specific and I can't really cover it in a youtube comment.
wow wow and wow again. to think my ancestors wore these in battle. my cousin still has a couple of sets in the house.
The "stronger" the material, the lighter the gauge you can use. A very rough rule of thumb is 14 gauge mild is as tough as 16 gauge stainless is as tough as 18 gauge spring is as tough as 19/20 gauge spring stainless.
However, once you get to spring stainless, IMO you hit the point of diminishing returns where the edges are so thin, they are hard to keep from being sharp and the weight difference is so small, its not worth the money and trouble, except for the rust factor.
Honestly, I wouldn't obsess so much over it. Once you are in spring territory, other factors have a greater effect, and if you are not an experienced armourer, spring stainless will be more difficult to work with. Your skill in designing and shaping the metal will play a far larger role in making a well-fit and light harness than shaving a few ounces here and there due to material choice.
What kind of steel alloy do you use? Would I be able to acquire a good steel for this from a Home Depot or Lowes? I'm rather limited in my funds and any suggestions for a good metal to use by a beginner would be appreciated. I have the basic hands own skills down but still need to perfect them. Thank you so much for your time and keep up the great work! :D So great to see people keeping what is definitely an art alive.
@erichmatt For riveting on two leather straps that will attach the poleyns to the thigh armour. For knees that will be independent a set of holes are punched at the top to lace an arming point through.
i can't imagine having to make dozens of full sets of armor like what people did a long time ago.
Barely touched the stuff since college. It was good to do during class but in terms of making more than 50 cents an hour, not so much. How did you know I ever made maille?
堅実で，素晴らしい動画ですね！
Question: When doing fluting on say a gauntlet, what is the "work-order"? Is it first make everything fit perfectly with the holes drilled, THEN marking the fluting and punching them in? Thanks!
Thanks for a very informativ vid. Hope to more in the future
Dear Eric, where did you get your metal dishing bowls on the stumps from. I have been looking for those, but can't seem to find them anywhere. Your help would be greatly appreciated. ,,🙂 Kind regards, Warmold from the Netherlands
Those dishes look like the bottoms off of decommissioned compressed gas bottles -- cut off and smoothed.
There are other ways to make compound curves (bowl like shapes) than "sinking" the sheet metal into a dish. Look on The Armour Archive for " soft hammer/hard anvil" quasi-raising, which can raise a bowl from flat sheet on a flat anvil top.
Well, mostly from myarmoury forum. Where they said your maille is the closest similar to the historical one
possible to do a video on your arming jacket? looking for a basic guide on how they're constructed.
Hey, do you know any good sources that explain the different types of steels? Preferably a guide specifically for armorers? Is it true stainless steel is lighter?
As the daughter of a Silversmith, your tools and techniques make me happy. However, he refers to "dishing" as sinking.
I've heard "doming" used as well, but not as often as sinking and dishing. Sinking makes sense, being the opposite of raising in a way.
WinterTreeCrafts
I call it Peening. I use it to make ladles, spoons, and Shield Bosses. Though I think my method is a bit older. No fancy forms or swage blocks, just get it up to cherry and pound it into the end-grain of a log. Then minor straightening if needed using a small ball stake. No worries, I don't think we're competitors in the market. I make Lemellar armour, not plate.
Thanks dude, i read up on annealing after i posted the comment. I was thinking about doing this in a pottery-kiln (? No idea what their called in english, hope you get the idea), will 1000 celsius do? How hot and how long for annealing, and how hot for tempering, im using 1,2mm mild steel. Also, its galvanized, will this have any effect? :)
The pottery kiln will do, as it can heat the metal past red heat at 1000°C.
Don't use galvanized in hot work of any kind, as red heat will vaporize zinc, and you'd be breathing that. At best it will give you a monstrous headache. At worst it kills.
May I ask what forge do you use? It looks great...so many lovely, lovely tools. Saving up for a beverly! and that belt sander...
Its an NC tool whisper daddy four burner. I actually have never been terribly impressed with it. We just picked up a Chile Forge single burner for little stuff and it is a big step up in quality and so I would recommend their forges over the NC tool models.
I might just end up using 4160, as that is the preferred material of the guy who's workshop I'm using. If you could tell me more about spring stainless, I would be very appreciative. If you don't have time, I understand.
4160 approximates carbon steel, with just a pinch of alloying elements lightly sprinkled in -- and 60 points of carbon. It has an excellent report as sword blade material. If it's good for swords, it's also good for knives, possibly in a harder temper if desired -- not being subjected to the shock and levering of a sword strike.
Spring stainless, likewise best for knife type application. There, you have carbon for hardening, plus good corrosion resistance. See also surgical stainless.
Your saw sounds horrible because the buckle is hitting a resonance. Either feed faster or slower(not sure the speed your running on that saw), and chuck up that buckle in something sturdier than pliers. Maybe a tight vice style plier?
Basically the hold on the buckle from the pliers is just loose enough to allow vibration, like a windchime, or triangle.
What a great video, Thank you very much.
Do you still use your doughnuts?
Sure do. I use them as my bottomless forms, with the cast ironmonger ones being my heavy beaters due to the larger mass.
Beautiful work. Where did you guys get your anvils?
Around 8:40, doesthe crease still fortify the peace after you beat it flat again?
Johnson's paste wax or a more expensive and specialized product called "Renaissance Wax" are the two most common I see folks use.
As for videos and such, look up Eric Dube, he's got fantastic videos on making armour.
I'm more or less self-taught with the help of videos, forums and books. Armourers are very loathe to take on apprentices but generally pretty helpful on forums.
Unless you know someone in the trade, its difficult to find anything resembling instruction. Best bet is start reading, watch videos, and grab some tools and set to work and start experimenting.
Last questions: What wax is used to protect the armor, and can you recommend any in-dept videos or books on armour making? (The more the better!) Thanks!
Thank you very much!
out of curiosity what is the oil and wax mixture that you use for sealing the metal?
Would sell one kidney to become your apprentice :O
@WTC, where can iI buy a 1050 steel sheet because I searched around with no success. Every metal supplier that I've asked only carried mild steel sheets (1008, or 1018).
Question, apologies if it's a dumb one: Why does dishing thin the metal to the point of uselessness (potentially) while raising doesn't? It looks like you're doing exactly the same thing; smacking a sheet of metal with a hammer against a curved surface, except in one case the curved surface is concave, and in the other it's convex
Dishing thins the metal, raising thickens it.
I get that, what I don't understand is WHY
Really bad at explaining things but we'll have a go. take a piece of paper. Try and push it into a hole working from the edges to the center and notice how it crumples based on the pressure you apply. Now take a second piece of paper and, over an upright form, work the paper downwards by pushing from just past the form your using and working out to the edges.
Doesn't really explain it well but hopefully should at least let you see how the principal works and hopefully give you a better idea of it.
LunaLover231 raising bends the metal where dishing stretches it.
LunaLover231 You can work the problem out for yourself with a bit of modelling clay. Gently use a mallet or hammer to simulate the action you would make working with steel. A lot of little mysteries can be worked out without bruning fuel, metal and muscle.
Can I buy any old equipment you don't use any more? This video is awesome. I want to do this.
The apprentice inherited pretty much everything I didn't need anymore, which wasn't much. Most tools can be repurposed.
Where is a good place to buy this stuff? Like the steal ball you pound on.
Arthur Ball Whoops, sorry I never saw your question. A business called Ironmonger Armory is an excellent source for many of the tools required.
WinterTreeCrafts Why thank you Sir. The video was very well done.
What anvil brand is that? And what's the size? Thank you and amazing work!!
makes it look easy
Do you happen to know whether or not spring stainless is lighter than spring?
So many questions... How do you deal with rust-protection in areas with much grinding.Like in the rivet of a jont, or where the pauldrons scratch against the breastplate.
Thank you for the cideo. Now that is how you make real medieval armor contrary to other fake armorers who make fake armors with out heat treatment just for the looks other than functionality.
any idea where i can pick up a good dishing form, im trying getting into blacksmithing as a hobby, and i dont think ill go straight to raising for putting curves on things like calf plates
, thanks
I got most of mine from Ironmonger Armory out of Maine. They have a website with a tool section where you can find them.
Im making a metal helmet (coldforming-raising), but sometimes the steel tears in the plate-ends, any advice?
What was your annealing temperature and what was its cooling rate ?
Nice shop
beautiful...
So say I was simply making armor for looks and not functionality (ex. costumes). Would simply dishing suit for such work do, or is raising critical for simply look and design?
Thats probably a matter of opinion. I can only speak to 14th century kit as thats what I personally work with. For both purposes you *can* make some styles of harness utilizing only dishing and other very simple techniques. However, if you are able to raise and do other more advanced techniques the end product will be superior both in terms of aesthetic and design (articulation, fitting etc). On the plus side, because its only for costume you don't have to worry as much about thinning the metal, which means you can dish more deeply.
If your technique is well executed, dished armour can get pretty close to looking "right", but can also very easily turn out looking round, clunky and "medievalesque". Depending on how serious you are, your best bet is probably to spend some time in a museum looking at pieces similar to what you want to make and run through in your head how to make that shape.
Your site hasn't been updated since last year, how soon before you get the shop up and running again?
johhnytrash Yeah, DIY construction turned out to be far more of an undertaking than we had imagined, and we had imagined it would be pretty rough to begin with. We're hoping to be finally sleeping at the new place next month, with the workshop to follow later in the summer. I'm still making gorgets (and if you hit reload on the two gorget pages you'll see the new versions) but I can't say for sure at this point when I'll be taking commissions again. Hopefully before the year is out.
WinterTreeCrafts Hey, I'm an amateur comic artist and leather craftier, I'm very well aware of how long commissions can take and the circumstances that keep you from them. Just know I'll be watching and I'll get in the queue as soon as it's open again.
tell me, if im wrong, but you can use the english wheel for planishing
may i ask you why not using ( expecially for the Planishing ) a mechanical or pneumatical hammer, something like a Sewing machine with a hammer in the place of the needle, with variable speed and power and size of the hammer? wouldn't it be faster, less boring and less fatiguing?
From what I understand, those hammers are very worth it and as you say, are faster, less boring and less tendon-killing if your work is such that you can actually utilize one. For volume production with a large number of similarly shaped parts, hands down they are a good tool to have. I havn't been able to personally try one but from what I understand, folks like me who aim for *very* assymetrical and historically accurate shaping and lines, its very difficult to match the curvatures of the piece to the anvil/hammer on a pneumatic machine. Theres just too much variation and not enough matched pieces to get a decent production run going.
At some point I would love to try one to see if thats true or not. Because I freakin hate planishing.
because real man use a fucking hammer (roars mightily) , also there is the whole preserving the art and the fact that my hand can more precisely strike what I need and do so at more angles.
TheGaming Smith ^ I think he said it better than me :)
Thanks very informative
I wish I could work in a place like this
Very nice
I was wondering what you use to preserve the shine on your armour?
+Cheeky Bastard Sorry for the long delayed response, been extremely busy lately.
Most armourers use a paste wax on any parts that have been polished to keep them from rusting. Johnson's Paste Wax on the cheap and easy to find end of things and Renaissance Wax on the expensive and order it online end of things.
+WinterTreeCrafts Thank you for your response. I found it perplexing to see hammered steel shining after a few years and I know machine oil doesn't stop rusting because I tried it.
Thank you again for your response.