Dagger Against Longer Weapons | Dark Souls Rolling?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- How to defend against a spear thrust with a staff and a dagger? What to do if you only have two "cudgels" (i.e. wooden branches) and are attacked by a spearman? Is there any chance to ward off a longsword attack with just a dagger? The late 14th century Italian knight and fencing master Fiore de'i Liberi has some answers that my HEMA instructor Erik Bailey and I demonstrate and comment on in this video.
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#skallagrim #swords #endhimrightly
Throwing one of your clubs is caveman's take on pommel throw. How did humanity survive up until now is beyond me.
Early Man had to use all their explosive pommel-throws to end the dinosaurs rightly.
Because our ancestors evolved to be the ultimate throwing machines.
We evolved made the pommel smaller and pointy and made the sword throw the pommel
How about all those centuries where the main form of disease treatment was removing blood? You can't be sick if you're dead!
It's one of our advantages over other animals: A body that is built specifically to be great at throwing things.
The other advantages being high intelligence (for some people this works in reverse for some reason though, not sure why) and very high stamina (ability to sweat)
Nobody:
Italians: "How can I style on my opponents the hardest?"
to be fair, if your enemy defeats your ally you might still feel like you can win, but if he defeats your ally with ~style~ , you'd definitely avoid fighting him.
Well, I mean the entire book was just one big flex on everyone, how Fiore styled on people and how much better he was. Imagine this Italian dude going around challenging ppl all accross Italy and Germany meanwhile having his literal playbook circulating. Would make anyone stop for a second and go, hol up.... maybe I shouldnt challenge him if hes still this confident.
Wasnt really designed to be a teaching aid more of a description of how he will own you with enough parts omitted you still dont know for sure how he gets to that point.
@@TheStaniG It's the medieval equivalent of "What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals..."
They made JoJo's reffrences before JoJo even exist
Everyone knows the dark souls roll gives you invulnerability, so even if the sword hits you, it doesn't matter.
He medium rolled he had less frams of invisibility
But in the context of reality, it's impractical, as stylish as it may be.
not to say its feasible, but a good "dark souls" roll ends with you back on your feet, without having to try to get back up, since you never really fell flat. as in a continous roll. This kind of technique is used in self defense martial arts like Aikido.
I remember taking damage during a roll
That roll catch tho...
To paraphrase Dr. John D. Clark, when presented with a situation where one has a dagger against an opponent armed with a longsword, I've always reccomended a good pair of running shoes.
Ah. The Nike maneuver
Wise man
(Nods)
There is a manual of a man defeating spearman with a dagger to show how skilled he is.
The most underrated form of medieval combat techniques. Cardio
Well, at the risk of being hunted down and viciously pummeled, I'm going to add that this is also known as the "Chlorine Tri-Fiore-ide Maneuver".
Branch: Most underrated weapon in history
Issa branch. Cheap, easy, good club.
A spear = branch + knife
@@Orannis9
spear = pointy branch
Most underrated *throwing* weapon in history
Still waiting for the UK to ban wooden branches, those things are way too dangerous.
The Dark Sould roll works by confusing your enemy into asking, "Did he really just try to roll?"
"Here's the technique for dual-wielding cudgels: throw one cudgel away and draw a dagger, since dual-wielding cudgels is stupid."
I must admit, that is the single best technique in that situation.
Quite often the answer is: Don't get into that situation, what are you? Stupid?
Isn't a bag of rocks PHEMA, Pre-Historic European Martial Arts?
PREMA would sound way bether tho
Don't think they had bags in pre historic times lol
Oonga boonga
@@The.Usurper they had baskets though..
Pre-historic would make a lot more sense regarding the response and aid from the other FEMA.
It seems like fighting style masters would sometimes just throw in joke stuff for other people in their circle.
old-timey cartographers would usually make up towns that don't exist as a form of copy protection (it's called paper towns me thinks). If someone's map has a place that you invented, that means they copied you.
If someone's swordsmanship book has some your nonsensical move of "Just start throwing shit" then...
@@LawkzBro fairly sure that is s still a thing
@@LawkzBro Dictionary publishers would do the same thing, adding in fake words...only problem is, sometimes those words became real. haha
I would like to see more videos on historical dagger and knife fighting, and I suppose that many people would love to see the same.
The thing is I dont think there is much to say about that topic, because they werent used as primary weapons for obvious reasons. So I dont think there are many techniques, just stab and hope for the best if you lost your primary and secondary weapons.
@@hungrydragon9402 have you read Manual del Baratero?
In fact, I have not.
@@hungrydragon9402 I see. I'd say that you should take a look, it's an interesting piece - a 19th century knife fencing manual from Spain. Though, as far as I know, english translation has certain errors and I'd recommend you to check russian translation with the researcher's comments.
i cant imagine that they'd be much different from todays knife fighting
5:05 lets see what happens if i actually strike with intent.
Skallagrim hides his hand.
😂😂😂
Fiore was the original memelord making -videos- books about silly Dark Souls 'techniques.'
That sly, time-travelling bastard!
Rolling works like that in Dark Souls as well- you roll to avoid the first hit, and the second swing hits you on the way out. :^)
Rule 1 of dark souls: roll to avoid attacks
Rule 2 of darks souls: don't stop rolling until you are safe
Just roll with it dude
@@Olav_Hansen KEEP ROLLIN' ROLLIN' ROLLIN'
KEEP
ROLLIN' RO-
ROLLIN' RO-
KEEP
ROLLIN' ROLLIN'...
@@bobmcbob49 thats how i play dark souls AND fight irl
*Sits in corner with Havel sheild*
I think most of Fiore tecniques should have the appendice: "if you're good as me"
Fabio Varrà you’re *
@@LifaenOrion thx
That wouldn't be consistent with his going out of his way to say he doesn't consider himself a master, but you're right
So your telling me dark souls could have been harder?
This makes me curious: Has anyone ever done a no roll run before? In the original dark souls it was very possible due to how heavy armor worked, but in dark souls 3? I simply must know!
@@TerraReveene well im not going to do it the game is hard enough. Plus... i dont think i can afford another controller
RUclipsr Otzdarva did no roll no hit run in ds2.
@@paweukomski7301
That was torture
@@TerraReveene Well yes there's actually a SL 1, no dodge/block/parry run for DS3 by tolo. Pretty much either run around the hitboxes in a very specific way or die, lmao.
Thats why you use the darkwood grain ring when you roll
Logan Dial he's playing DS2 and didn't level adp.
I would enjoy seein other dagger theorical stuff as well as some other less know weapon or situation ! Keep up the good work buddy !
up
he threw the cudgel. I did not see that one coming; it hits my head... I'M DEAD!
he threw the cudgel. I saw it coming; I dodged! he drew dagger and stabbed me... I'M DEAD!
DAMN technique!
Skallagrim, could you do a update video on a analysis of the riddick ulaks.
I am a fan of how Fiore recognizes that style is important.
Going to miss these videos featuring Erik. Thanks for all you provided to Skall's videos, man. Hope it's not the last time we see you
I once saw a sparring session where two guys were trying longsword vs dagger. The dagger guy threw his weapon for a non-lethal blow and was able to roll dodge the cuts/thrusts from the longsword for a while and he kinda did a Benny Hill around the arena back to his dagger. He eventually was hit anyway but good on him for doing so well.
I'll always tune in for weigh-ins on weapon matchups. Good stuff.
The DarkSouls Roll was so funny XD
Wasn't Fiore an very excentric guy?
Very intressting as always :3
Yeah,he dedicated a non negligeable portion of his teaching to styling upon his opponents
Even the writing for some of these is essentially "I can totally do that with ease.You can't,but I can😏"
@@silverhand9965 Master Fiore had quite fun with that, i assume.
Or he was laughed at one to often.
Mispronunciation - it's not "in theory", but rather "in Fiorey"
The onĺy reason the dark souls roll work in the game is invincibility frames, remove them and you're screwed.
Sekiro tho
@@irithylloldman6526 wait they removed that in sekiro ?
@@ahmadtarek7763 yeah, that's why dodging is shit in sekiro, so you have to parry everything
@@bobmcbob49 It has invinsibility frames, and so does jumping.
But it's like 2 or 3 frames. So it's only for getting out of the way of an attack that is coming, rather than dodging through the attack.
but in sekiro you could backstep kinda fast?
so we finally found another end him rightly meme? XD
Great HEMA banter. Love your combined work, Skall & BIMA!
This was great fun to watch, and it's nice to see some Fiore stuff on your channel.
I really enjoy and appreciate these practical demonstrations of theoretical moves.
Take that, algorithm.
I would LOVE to see more content like this, like weapon x versus weapon y, ways you can win with the "worse" weapon for that situation
Fascinating stuff, fights never go how you plan so you make very good points.
One of your best videos. Yeah dagger vs sword is risky, but if you have no choice it is better to have some idea of what to do. I've been in disadvantaged positions before and made it out.
When I saw it say “Duel Clubs vs. Spear”, for a split second I hoped the one under it said “Duel Spears vs. Club”.
Loved that dark souls reference. That was amazing. And that face afterwards!
These hypothetical scenario breakdown videos are very interesting
So so glad I found this channel once again thank you for all your hard work
The video in question skalla spoke of is Doug marceida and a guy in the italian special forces.
Very fascinating video with very high level practitioners
The sound of the clang of edge on metal armor is wicked
The staff and dagger combo is very good.
This is one of the best channels ever!
"This dagger is useful after parrying and is normally equipped in the left hand."
"A favorite of the knights of Carim, who are famous for fighting without a shield"
the dagger WAS used to parry. but rapiers, not fckng bastard swords...
Could you check out Vinland Saga and give us your thoughts about it?
OH YES, seconded, thirded AND fourthed
yeah, I thought the same thing
I watched only three episodes, it was so good that I decided to wait until it's almost completed. The guy eating a mushroom (probably to induce berserker mode) was pretty cool tho, I've heard the manga is very accurate when it comes to weapons, fights, armors and dresses and so on
Yep, I tried comment on one of his previous videos.
spoiler : its shit like every shonen
Videos like these make me want to get Dagger and practice against a longsword
Hey there, as with defending any overhead strike, be it hammer fist or descending sword, the rule of thumb is to not block to the outside of your opponent (as you show here) but rather to block his downward trajectory blow from the inside and block upward. You might still suffer a blow but if your angling (inside and upward block) is sufficient and your positioning is relatively close to your opponents body, you will fair much better. With dagger against heavier sword, angle the dagger slightly vertically so that it's moving upward, sharp flat edge moving towards your opponent, not resting on top of your forearm, ulna. As you've correctly demonstrated this method of blocking a heavier sword bears no leverage.
Great video. I'd like to watch more break downs from manuals and how to react or counter such moves.
Thanks for the insightful video, Skall. Wishing you guys well with the move!
Those are certainly my favorite videos !
With dagger vs. long sword the dagger wielder only has a good chance if he is in full plate armour. If not I would suggest a well timed and placed throw of the dagger would be the next best option.
Everyone knows that if you have a dagger and your opponent has a great sword or ultra, you should roll backstab it. Then while he's getting up, kick into backstab or plain old chain backstabbing.
Fun video guys, keep at it!
The most important, and probably the hardest thing for my students to learn is to resist the urge to block something coming at them. Stopping momentum creates, at best, equal footing. Slight redirection of momentum is taking control and creates significant advantage.
In the illustration of parrying the sword with your dagger, Fiore shows the master grabbing his opponent by the right arm with his left. That would severely restrict the player's movement, if only for a couple moments. But a couple moments is all you need to sink a dagger into his chest.
You forgot the ultimate unarmed technique... turning around and running as fast as you can. I count it as winning as long as you're alive.
Nice timing on the video, I've been doing winged spear and dagger combo PVP in DS3 recently, works out amazingly in the game but maybe not so well in real life
Me: Doing Indian club exercises in my basement, minding my own business.
(A wild spearman appears)
Me: "Thank you, Fiore di Libre."
It's actually "Fiore dei Liberi", as in " the dude called Fiore, from the family of Liberi". Yes, the style is named after him. Modest fellow.
ED: Actually, the manuscripts he published were called "Fior di battaglia", or "flower of combat", which is marginally better, I guess.
please do an analysis on the sekiro techniques like the mikiri counter.
This video was great! Loved the Dark Souls moment.
this is why i love that channel
In Genbukan Ninjutsu we are actually taught rolling as part of a series of sword escapes. These are performed against a katana though, which is a curved single-edged sword, so rolling to escape is a much easier thing to do, compared to a double-edged straight sword. But still, years of training exactly where and when to roll when attacked at [this] angle or [that] angle, do lead to some seriously impressive results.
Your weapons vids are the best on RUclips imho
As an italian i am proud of the thow you have shown. It’s definitely something I would do just to be a triehard
Still wanting to see a rapier + parry dagger vs X if you haven't done a video on that yet. Thanks for the hard work you put into your content.
The gun guy that roll away is Instructor Zero. The knife guy is Doug Marcaida, Kali master with small knife. The roll won't do much with long sword. It was to ilustrate the timing and distance effectivity of guns and knife in self defense scenario on the street - every day life
To roll faster and and cover more distance you gotta be below 25% your max equip load, thats why the roll failed on this video.
As far as I'm aware Fiore is mostly concerning judicial combat and so it would be even footing with two fresh combatants, but I could see the dagger techniques being useful against a longswordsman who has been fighting prior to your encounter with him and may deliver an overcommitted "sloppy" thrust like you showed.
Really happy to suscribed this channel, nice content, really interesting (i'm not into "medieval martial" stuff but I'm starting to like it with your content ! Greetings from France !
That dark souls edit made my night
Nice video Skallagrim and friend. I personally would like to see more of those, have a good one
An alternative but more risky maneuver with the spear v staff and dagger may be to try and trap the spear shaft between the body and a well grounded stick on the outside of the spear, thus preventing the attacker withdrawing with the weapon.
I've seen a dagger blocking longsword technique which might work, but that was a parrying dagger with huge hand guard. Like a sai. And parrying was performed mainly with that guard.
Gotta love that Darksouls "You Died" notice with Skallagrim's expression
I'm a huge fan of this video format. I like seeing the room and learn why things don't work with visuals. I like these odd techniques that seemed very situational. I will say that it seems that these "manuals" were probably only intended for very low grade rich nobles to learn from. I don't see a master of a spear or sword ever thinking an idiot holding a spear with their hands basically touching was a worthy opponent.
8:00 That was beauty AF
So just having a long shaft gives you massive advantage, alright
but a long blade might break stuff in a blacksmith's shop and get stuck in doorways
The best defense is to be whiter than Erik's legs and remove your shirt to blind him
You put dark souls roll in the video just so I'd click it. And I did. Thank you.
We're gonna miss your shennanigans Eric!
3:08 cudgeling was my nation's national sport for over 150 years. It was fought with your choice of 2 short cudgels or 1 long staff weapon. I dont remember the exact rules beyond that, if there were any, but thats the long and short of it.
Daggers were a matter of practicality of course. Portability and cost and depending on the knife techniques could potentially be used on a reasonably well balanced knife. AS mentioned, you're at a significant disadvantage vs a proper weapon but it's better than unarmed. I remember watching folks sparring practicing short sword vs spear and the young fit spear guy started getting cocky. This middle aged man with a belly gets up and offers to spar and the younger guy suddenly lost alot of his cockiness. Man took the short sword, choked up on it, and said "ok this is a dagger now because otherwise you have no chance". Younger guy fences at him for about 20 seconds abusing his range while to old guy waits patiently avoiding the strikes. Suddenly the old guy snaps out the "dagger", deflects the spear, grabs + pulls with his other hand while rushing forwards and stopping his "dagger" right at the young guy's stomach. "and yer dead. Good footwork though, keep practicing." He looks so unassuming and unthreatening but every time I saw that guy spar before I moved away he crushed whoever he was against.
As to the first spear thrust, if one's doing the trombone-sliding-hand kind of thrust, you'll be in a position with your hands close together. That kind of thrust is usually done from pretty far away, though.
Yah, some of those short vs long counters are done in oriental martial arts as well. A lot of the trick is that you have to really launch the counter at their weapon shoulder very early and very committed to get inside their strike radius before they can land the blow, and just use whatever parry you have available (i.e. the dagger) as a potential semi-sacrifice move to get you into close/grappling range where your dagger or empty-hand techniques gain the advantage again.
It's not your first choice -- it's the choice you end up having to make under the circumstances.
Also, there are times when certain "exotic" rolling choices can pay off, but it isn't as simple as side-rolling at sustained range, as you demonstrated here. As the professor used to say, "It's not one of the 10 easy lessons."
With a Sai, in order to defend against a sword strike, you press it against the arm instead of holding it away. By blocking at an angle you can redirect the strike so the full force doesnt just go through your arm.
I generally agree with you, though I often see some points you didn’t figure into your argument. One of the things you often overlook, is the phenomena often referred too as “being in the zone.” I think you should play some racquetball, weekly, for at least a couple years. Get good enough to be able to match some very good players. Then tell us how far a person can move in a given span of time. Indeed a person can span the entire length of a racquetball court, in the time it takes the ball to fall about two inches. One doesn’t run, or leap exactly, though it may appear that way to an onlooker. It feels rather more like teleportation. You see the ball bounce downward off the wall, just a couple inches from the floor, and you don’t stop to consider that you are on the far side of the court and thus it is not physically possible to reach the ball before it hits the floor. No you don’t stop to consider anything, instead you just go BANG, and hit the ball, before it touches the floor. The BANG was not the racquet striking the ball, but rather the sensation of reaching a suitable location through shear force of will in a way that feels instantaneous, where you might strike the ball very softly. So softly that it only barely reaches the wall, after a single low floor bounce, maybe only six inches back (the ball may have traveled that far out from the back wall as it fell only a couple inches), so that the ball will lose what little momentum you imparted as it strikes the wall before falling an inch to the ground. At that point, if your opponent can’t teleport nor stop time, because they aren’t quite in the zone at the top of their game, then you score the point…
Skal you should do a video on the fight scenes in the last kingdom. Plenty of things to tear apart, I'm sure. Right up your alley 😁
Awesome video you guys! Love these tutorial-like videos 😁
Rogues armed with daggers equipped with the typical little armour but with well made gauntlets/shoulder protection kind of like the one famous depiction of an Irish Kern could actually be really interesting in a fantasy world.. Goes with most modern knife-fights too where they typically wrap jackets, hoodies or blankets around their arms to shield blows from the opponents weapons.
What if you approached this with more of a video game mindset? The person using the long sword is armored, slow and going for crushing blows...the one with the dagger is very nimble and is dual wielding either 2 daggers or a dagger and a short sword. Would speed and dexterity allow the dagger wielder to avoid the heavy blows and hit the weak points?
@alvi syahri less armor also means more mobility ....but that doesn't mean a success in real life. I'm just thinking in terms of video game warrior vs rogue or something similar.
it seems the like button on your vids (or in my app) are broken. Always see your recent vids with exactly 2500 likes, and adding my like doesn't change the number.
However, have a safe trip and may your new house be a home.
Dammit Skallagrim, your roll test was flawed! You didn't wear the Dark Wood Grain ring which gives you extra I-frames and a ninja flip roll (which science proves can dodge anything)!
We all know if a guy with a dagger ran straight at a guy with a gun...
He would just deflect the bullet like Genji and dash past him... Easy
Ottawa swordplay is having an open house September 7th if you in the area. They teach Johannes Liechtenauer
As a freerun athlete and stuntman I really like the rolling part estheticly despite being so impractical. No matter how quick or long the roll is you can't outspeed the sword. Even if you somehow manage it your recovery of that is gonna be long enough to put you in danger again. The only way I was able to use it to certain degree was with a wide sweeping strike to ensure the other blade is busy and hope to to recover my posture quick enough to continue my assault
I remember hearing over and over how a strike from a long sword could be blocked with a reverse grip dagger held against the arm. From the very beginning I knew that was not possible, as it doesn't take a lot of force to displace the dagger and cut the arm anyway. I knew this from practice
Just letting you know this is pretty cool stuff!
Make more of these videos please.
Loved the vid man
Well thanks to your new video we know how to counter this. Swiping a stick with your feet against it and kicking your stick onto his hand
at the roll part i just had an idea: what if instead of a sideroll you straight on tackle the guy before he gets his swing into motion? If you get him onto the ground you have a nice chance with a dagger but how big that if is , i do not know.
You need to cross quite a distance throughout which the longsword user can easily attack you at any time. Don't forget that the opponent won't just stand there waiting while you charge in.
I think the two branch/club thing is meant for people who are attacked while in the wilderness or piling wood at home, that kind of thing. Something for people who are just working and have nothing but a common dagger at the time. I honestly don't see a problem with it, I've done similar stuff and had it done to me minus the spear. Works pretty good, It's cumbersome to hold both clubs and the thrown one is distracting to your opponent. Often that's all you need to get past that spear point and with rushing into dagger distance, if they're not good alert wrestlers, they're done.
It'd be crazy for dagger vs longsword to work. But as an interesting point, if you open your hand slightly you actually lay the flat of the dagger against your arm. This means the strike is structurally going into your arm, but the edge is still hitting metal, so you would be technically safe.