Pelham Express Service - More Harm Than Good?
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- When Peak Direction Express service was first introduced on the IRT Pelham Line, it decreased travel times by a considerable amount, however, over the years, with the introduction of timer signals, that same time save is now negligible. In this video, I explain the issues that (6) Express service has, and how we can fix them.
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I've lived in Parkchester for 23 years before I moved out to Texas and I promise you no matter how many issues the merges causes NO ONE WANTS THE EXPRESS SERVICE DISCONTINUED. A lot of people who relied on the express service just accustomed to its operation. The best solution is to just alternating express and local service at Pelham Bay Park and increasing the speeds into the station. You can even have express trains go immediately to Parkchester after Pelham
Exactly
Yes, all those people that live deep in soundview, throgs neck, country club, co-op and other areas where you have to take a long bus ride would be livid if the express is removed.
@@williamerazo3921 I remember when the Redbirds R29 and R33 trains ran on the (6) line during the 1980's and the 1990's.
@@SuperheroJunior
I don't
TRUE!!!
Having worked the 6 from time to time, I can tell you that express service is very necessary, since ridership at the local stations south of Parkchester is much less than that north of Parkchester. Since, in the northbound direction, there are 2 Pelham Expresses for every Parkchester local, the switching problems at Parkchester are negligible. The biggest problems are if you have a sick or disorderly passenger that cannot, or will not, be removed at Parkchester.
Yeh I don't see any real issues. Parkchester is my local station and the times to get a local into the express track siding isn't long
Most pain you will get from this type of service is midday at around 1 when your stuck on a 6 local right outside parkchester
but that’s only been at 1pm by the time it hits rush hour there is no problem
As somebody that lives in the northern Bronx and has to quickly get from WTC to My stop north of parkchester the 6 express actually does cut what would be an 1-2 hour ride into just a certain 1 hour and maybe an extra 30 minutes if the 4/5 is delayed
Or let the express train run on M track all the way to pelham
@@metrocityrr you'd be bypassing the busiest 6 line station in The Bronx--Westchester Square.
You raise a real sore spot regarding signal timers and low speed limits. Andy Byford was working to correct those unnecessary slowdowns, but of course Governor Musclecar chased him away.
Option 4, converting Westchester Square into an Express station and extending peak directions service to that station seems like the most viable option all the while changing the interlocking at Parkchester would seem as part of the project as well.
Option 5, converting Westchester Sq and Express and Pelham Bay Park into express.
optionn 0
leaving things the way they are because there is no need foran express portion from parkchester to pelham bay if they were need for one am sure the MTA would of made it
@@ninofromkitchennightmares1497 Yeah... maybe not, but in Brand New Subway, I always make the express go all the way to PBP (*P*elham *B*ay *P*ark) instead of just the express ending at Parkchester.
@@nicholasstantonshomeaccoun2291 They have all the R62AS back on the Pelham 6 line now will get the Job done until the Brand New R262/AS comes to replace all the R62AS.
@@leecornwell5632 Thanks, Lee.
Very well done. I worked my last five years on the 6 doing Parkchester relays. Of course, that was 13 years ago, but the problem remains the same. The obvious immediate remedy is to run the Parkchester service express and let the Pelham trains stay local all the time. As you correctly point out, while this would partially solve the "train" problem, it would create mayhem with passengers racing across the platform to change from local to express service, something I call the "favorite sport of NYCT straphangers". Eliminating the express service entirely would not go over well as you would be depriving the riders of their aforementioned favorite subway sport. So, while you have great ideas, I don't think we can expect any of them to materialize anytime soon.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that so many people have good ideas on improving transit within NYC, yet the MTA fails to recognize this and continues on with their band-aid solutions. Coming from someone who grew up on the (6) Line, I would love to see the situation at Parkchester improve, as currently, it's pretty annoying to get held on an Exp while a local relays in-front of you.
Ever notice the run for express trains at Hunts Point? (Ret. C/R N. Aiken)
@@nathanieldaiken1064 I haven’t ridden the Pelham Line at all, but this run wouldn’t exist anymore with the proposed service changes discussed. The trains could run every 2 minutes, meaning crowding wouldn’t be an issue as well.
@@MysticTransit Although I understand you’ve had a different situation
From what I’ve seen at castle hill avenue the local ends up being the one delayed and rightfully so
@@ninofromkitchennightmares1497 rightfully so is a stretch, since there are multiple high use local stops that get skipped (like Morrison Av) which has about the same ridership as most of the express stops north of Parkchester.
I think the 6 line has to keep peak direction express service due to how close the stops are spaced. Because the 6 does not share track with any other line, it can run at higher frequencies than most lines. So if it's 2 minutes between trains at the express stops, then it's just 4 minutes between trains at the local stops. I think the easiest way to rectify the Parkchester bottleneck is to reconfigure the switches so they can be taken at higher speeds, to minimize the time that one train is in front of another.
You take the you will see a riot in the Bronx.
Pelham express is just fine. Like anything else I’m sure it could be improved. But as a semi frequent rider from Buhre Ave I am in no way willing to see it eliminated.
It’s funny someone just liked the comment because I just got off the 6 express train 20 minutes ago
The Express ain't the same like it use to be anymore. I personally think the 6 local and 6 express should both head to Pelham bay park all times. During rush hours.
There’s no capacity at Pelham Bay Park for that
@@holzman00 I suggest having the 6 express trains terminating at Parkchester and having the 6 local terminate at Pelham Bay, so just switch the roles a little! You know how the (7) can terminate at 111th or Mets Willets Point too, I feel like the (6) should get a extra terminal during rush hour like maybe ending at Westchester Square then heading into the yard.
Six express should go to Pelham bay park during rush hour
@@LIRRSBSPRODUCTION have some 6 terminate at 125st
Make a 3rd track at PBP, have the 6 local go to PBP all times stopping at all stations but the 6X would go nonstop between PBP and Parkchester
I like the idea of having an another operator & conductor ready to go at the terminal. On the DC metro they do this during rush hour even though with then it’s just an operator no 2nd person
This doesn't make sense smh, the 6 Express is one of the most used services. The Parkchester relay crews aren't fast enough. What they should consider is changing the crossover layout north of the station, not get rid of the service 😭😭
It's time to face the facts, service just isn't that useful, as it has a negligible time save over the Local, plus, causes more issues with service reliability than the line without the express service.
@@MysticTransit tell that to literally anybody before Hunts Point avenue in the north
The 6 express is VERY useful
In the morning local trains are able to immediately head out to parkchester which means more service on the local
Most 6 express riders are heading into Manhattan which would mean those in the north have a quick shot to 125th street
You also have to remember that The only people who need to transfer at parkchester are those between Whitlock and Lawrence avenue which believe it or not are stops where people get off
Local service is fine as is and so is express service
Remember every local train in the morning heads to Pelham bay and can either run local or deadhead to parkchester
The only people who negatively are effected even in the slightest are those living north of parkchester which would be taking the express or better yet just transfer across the platform to the 6 local at parkchester
There are no service reliability issues on this line and to be honest if you actually have been riding this line for the past 6 years every weekday you would become accustomed and you will simply time your commute to catch the expres without waiting for a train every 5-6 minutes
@@MysticTransit i totally disagree with you. The is very useful & helpful. Yes there is a bottleneck at Parkchester, but what you’re talking about with area does not happen with every train. And the idea of getting rid of the because of time management will be negated when you have people North of Parkchester on the train longer than they usually are. I’ll take what we have now over the total elimination of the in a heartbeat
Two options, one to convert the Westchester station and redo the junction. The second option to extend and move the terminal to near Co op city with three tracks and a lay up
Exactly extend the 6 line to co op city mall barto Bronx. We have the metro North Connecticut railroad coming from Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city. They definitely gonna have to extend the Pelham 6 line to co op city mall barto I'm telling you. Another thing definitely needs to happen is the Thrid Avenue Elevated line between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Queens plaza connecting with the 7 N W trains. The 10 trains could be extended to Hunts point and throggs Neck Avenue Elevated line village.
Too expensive but a very good idea
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2I agree. Just because of the Approved project of east side metro north access, they are going to be very slow about extending the 6 to co op City. If that were to be approved, the construction would need to be different than what the elevated subway currently uses
@@calvinkendrick851 it's gonna definitely be extended to co op city mall I'm telling you. You have to remember the 6 Pelham Bay park is very very crowded just like main street Flushing and they have many buses. You know that the Connecticut metro North railroad is definitely coming to Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city. They don't have no choice to extend the Pelham 6 line to co op city mall. Another thing to when the Governor Cathy hucko ask the MTA workers to do something they have to do it or else they won't have no Job anymore. The mayor Eric Adams and governor Cathy hucko is gonna work together with out fighting. When coumo and bill deblosio was fighting all the time nothing was not done. The only three things that was done is the coumo bridge up in Tarrytown and the bike and bus lanes and the second Ave subway line. Not even mentioning about bringing the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back. Those two was fighting all the time for 8 years they were in office. Nothing was not really done. You have to look at that carefully. All the important things would of been done. Like the Air train to LaGuardia airport and willets point city field. Now governor Cathy hucko wants the N W trains to be extended to LaGuardia airport instead of the Air train. I'm just letting you know that now. The Thrid Avenue Elevated line and the ninth Ave Elevated line could of been done.
@@leecornwell5632 oh okay that’s good, I didn’t know Kathy Hochul approved for the 6 to be extended to the bay plaza mall. I only knew about the Approved east side access and the inter borough express which interestingly is going to be NYC’s first light rail. Extending the 6 would be more practical and necessary to extend to bay plaza vs the D all the way from 205th street. Even though the east side access will have a station in co op City, that’s still a little far from the mall unless they’ll build a stop along the tracks. But they may need to use stone like structure. Yeah hopefully they get that 3rd Avenue L revived again and it should continue on Webster Avenue. That’s good that the N and W trains are getting extended to LaGuardia. However I didn’t notice some of these things in the MTA’s 20 year plan 🤔
Parkchester is my local station and I use the 6 to get to my college in Manhattan. The 6 Express is fine as it is in my opinion. Every time I am at Parkchester in the mornings there is usually a Manhattan bound local train waiting to leave. Also quite often you would have 6 trains from pelham run local from Parkchester to Hunts Point before running express to third ave.
The wait times for me aren't that long and frankly I just think they need to get crews to take Parkchester bound locals into the center track quicker but other than that I don't think any other changes are necessary.
6 express is fine for what it does for those getting into Manhattan. It also is good if a local leaves but an express is close or arrives. It shouldn't be eliminated.
This is basically an "it is what it is situation"
I would keep the way it is, because it is not a big deal. It's not like there isn't a yard where you force to rely on a terminating train. So what the local would have to wait. The local is less important than the Express especially between 3rd Avenue and Hunts Point Avenue.
Another thing that can help and could possibly be a great video topic is adding and/or reopening closed subway exits
2:43 "Conga lines of trains waiting outside" Conga (the song) is now stuck in my head from this line.
I agree MTA needs to eliminate alot of these Timers and allow the trains to run faster. that would definitely improve service substantially
Deinterline first
That part. Get rid of them damn timers.
The reason the expresses go to Pelham is because those guys north of Parchester prefer express service. And I have to be honest with you I think it’s fine the way it is. Westchester Square could be converted into a express station and therefore if that were the case, what you could do is still have the express train to go to Pelham and have the local trains head over to the yard to relay. I think that the MTA is going to keep express trains going to Pelham. Most of the time anyway, the Express would leave the station first
Except it screws everyone on the local tracks with 6-8 minute service during the rush hour, and actually provides more service further out, where there’s less demand, rather than inward, where there is more demand.
Why doesn't the express 6 service run between Pelham and Parkchester?
The third track continues further. They can turn Pelham into a 3 track, 2 island platform terminal station.
Or the can act as a shuttle from 3rd Ave to Pelham Bay. It will run peak express and then turn around and run local back up/down.
The best way to improve the express would be to have them terminate at Parkchester and the (6) go to Pelham Bay Park.
Stop consolidating costs too much money and will cost Community outrage. While yes 143, Elder and Zerega are close to other stations. Closing them at a time where the MTA is trying to save as much money as possible without inconvenience would be a bad idea.
The only stop consolidating I can support is closing Hewes and Lorimer on the J & M in exchange for a Union Av station with a Transfer to the G at Broadway
I honestly don't see what needs to be improved. The service is fine as it is and the times to get trains into the siding to have them go back into Manhattan are negligible. The 6 train as a whole is very efficient as a result
Stop closing stations
Elder avenue gets more passengers than Parkchester at times and the Pelham line doesn’t need station removals
I think the best plan is to keep expanding CBTC across the system until it reaches the Pelham Line. The current crossover conflicts at Parkchester can be easily mitigated, since there's at least 3 minutes between each local or Express train, respectively; that's plenty of padding for conflicting moves. Once CBTC is installed, the trains will be spaced out more evenly, and they'll have much better timetable precision, making the relay move less of a burden. Fortunately this problem can be solved with electronics before concrete.
Operationally, the easiest solution right now is flipping the locals and expresses (your 3rd option) to eliminate all conflicts. I think the mad shuffle across the platform could feel a lot less rushed if the trains are accurately synchronized, and nobody's trip times would actually become longer - the joys of timed cross platform transfers. However, I believe this would cause more problems than it solves, especially regarding disabled and encumbered passengers. Forcing so many transfers could cause unsafe crowding on the narrow platforms, especially since the expresses are at best 4 minutes apart. I think CBTC is the only real solution.
Unfortunately, the bumper blocks at Pelham Bay can't handle as many trains as are needed along Lexington Ave, even with optimized operations. Long-term, though, the best solution would be to extend the 6 to Co-op City with a proper terminal. That way all trains could continue to the end of the line, and the Express service could be extended as far as Pelham Bay Park before merging with the locals. This could shave off about 15 minutes in total for riders along the 3 or 4 stop extension. Worth the cost, IMHO.
Your missing the point
The 6 Express goes local after parkchester there is no trying to change that as most of its riders don’t even ride until Middletown road getting off at Westchester or castle hill
Am fine with the bay plaza extension but 6 express can’t run express to Pelham bay park
Pelham bay isn’t like flushing it isn’t a major population center with business and recreational needs
It’s literally just a transit hub that isn’t even as hyped up as it is portrayed to be
@@ninofromkitchennightmares1497 what point am I missing? If the 6 were extended to Co-op City then there'd be enough demand to run the locals and expresses all the way to the end of the line, rather than short stopping the locals at Parkchester. The Express track provisions are such that Pelham Bay could be the last stop before the local and express trains merge onto the new 2-track extension. Riders south of Pelham Bay could transfer to the express at Parkchester, while riders north of Pelham Bay would be able to skip 13 stops on their way into Manhattan -- this would be no different to how riders currently behave on the 7. The alternative is to have 30tph stopping at every station, except for the current Express segment. With the 6 train serving co-op city, the demand for a longer Express service should materialize.
@@botmes4044 Then why dont all services run local from Parkchester to Co-Op City?
Because the most rdumb idea this comment section likes to bring out is that express run to pelham bay skipping the most used stations on the line for what reason?
because parkchester isnt a good terminal for them
@@ninofromkitchennightmares1497 Speaking about the 6 Pelham line being extended to co op city mall. They definitely gonna have the Connecticut metro North going back to Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city mall in the future. So it would definitely make sense that the Pelham 6 line be extended to co op city because it's definitely right there to cross over the high way and make two stops and make a middle tracks over there aswell just Incase if they want to do a track maintenance and inspections some times on the weekends it won't delayed the service s. They could definitely make a middle Express track.
Plus Pelham Bay park is definitely over Crowding and dangerous because they have so many crazy people in the world would rob you and do anything to harm others while people are waiting for the buses to come late nights and day time just like at main street Flushing the same exact way. They definitely need to extend the 7 Flushing line to Bayside Terrence and the 11 trains run to 20th college point whitestone in Queens.
3:57 that transition smooth asf
I was happy when I saw the 6 terminating at Bowling Green tho
Bro the 4 option is the best because it doesn’t make sense for the trains to cross in front of each other and if capacity is an issue there at Phelam Bay than they should terminate some 6 trains at 3rd avenue-138 street for some quick turnarounds there
As someone who operates those IRT lines they should let the 6 run express all the way to pelham bay park instead of express up to parkchester and then local from parkchester to pelham
Veering towards Option 5 as being the most reliable, increased reliabilty/throughput should help cushion the blow of all-local service, though the final scene suggests a 1/9-skip-stop-style regime might be possible \m/
I don’t support the skip stops because it would add up delays.
Express should be PBP parkchester Hunts point 3rd avenue with no stops in between these 4 stations, while the local makes all of these stops
I don’t live in NY at all or rode this portion of the subway but I can tell based on research and track layout that Plan 5 would make the most sense, where express and local trains would both terminate at Pelham bay park. The (6) would make all stops while the peak direction express would only stop at express stations and skip all local stops (INCLUDING those between Pelham bay park and parkchester)
This has been my line since 1981. I've seen several generations of blue collar New Yorkers come and go in this neighborhood. Parkchester being my main stop, this video hits deep. If you look up the history of unconstructed subway lines in NYC, there was a proposed elevated line to be built along Lafayette Avenue back in the 1920's. The Depression and WWII killed that proposal. Looking at the proposal in 2023, it's a shame the line never got built. This line could have connected the Co-Op City area to the South Bronx.
I know that Co-op City was built in the late 1960's, but a new elevated line branching off the 6 Line and have it elevated to serve the residents along Lafayette Avenue would have alleviated commuter backup along the Westchester Avenue Line. Oh well...
My favorite solution: none
Option 1) A flyover isn't neccessary. They removed the switches directly south of Parkchester circa 2005 that should be restored.
Option 2)Non starter. Your adding extra commuting time because institutional laziness.
Option 3) Same as 2, and is not cost effective.
Option 4) In the late 2000's, they increased the number of (6) local trains starting/terminating at Pelham Bay Park to increase service and mitigate any issues with the .
4a) Terminal Operations are bad because of the dispatchers. I have seen local trains pull into Parkchester and be held for minutes until an express arrives. Then be forced to sit in the station, unnecessarily creating the 'Conga Line' you mentioned.
Option 5) Absolutely not!!! There are riders who already take 10-15+ minute bus rides (Throgs Neck, Castle Hill, etc) to reach those stations. And if an all local service gets delayed, they run it express anyway. We don't need all those Grade and Station timers, they create inefficiencies onto into themselves.
I remember doing relays at this station. Fun times.
Idk if you've already made a video about this, but something I've always found really absurd and a time wasting is the rail switch of the Middle village bound M train at Myrtle av/Broadway. I mean, when the M train switches towards Middle village, it runs across all 3 rails, blocking completely the tracks for the Manhattan bound J and Z trains, having to be held at Kozciuszko st. It is a huge problem during rush hours.
The MTA needs specialists... They would be assigned to every station and would be fully versed in mental health. When required, they would be able to call police that have been specially trained to deal with people that are having a mental health crisis.
I used to live off the Pelham Bay stop. The commute is way too long to midtown as is. I think express service should run all the time from there. My commute with an express is a hour and a half on a good day.
I agree… downtown express all morning… uptown express all afternoon
But your skipping the most used station in the bronx
this is my thoughts, but no matter how bad express service is, people must have to be extremely stupid to think it should be removed. Anyway nice video mystic.
It’s not as stupid as one might think, those at local stations get double the service, and there is more certainty to when the train will arrive. Plus, a full local (6) might actually be faster than a factoring in wait times and better signaling/track speeds.
@@TMC_BC I can agree
The 6 Express doesn’t actually become a faster service until after Whitlock
The 6 Local comes more frequently and nobody really rides towards Manhattan on the 6 In the afternoon when it really does effect riders
People just need to realize you can’t redesign this line without hurting it more
6:09 they already do that. They're called drop back crews. Sometimes there isn't enough crews available to do it.
My proposal for this is to not have trains short turn at Parkchester. This will solve a lot of merging issues at the station. You could argue that if an express and local are both in the station at the same time, one of them will be held. This is true, but passengers on the train thats held could transfer to the train that is leaving sooner. Also, the train that is held will stay in the station, which allows boarding while the train is being held.
Except most riders get off at parkchester
Infact usually the local is empty o barely with passengers by the time it reaches parkchester
It’s a one seat ride for either party to where they live without having to transfer
i cant really see this as an issue
@@josephrosner905 Its an issue because people trying to get home faster take an Express then transfer to a Local and for what reason?
If your coming from manhattan you would most likely take this route
4/5 to 6X up to parkchester and then now with your plan your forced once again to transfer to another train
well there isnt really much of a difference in that when trains dont short turn at parkchester
Great video and analysis of the 6 express/local operations. I definitely think there are ways to improve performance on the 6 express service during the rush hours. I think the 6 express should make station stops only at 3rd Avenue-138th street, Hunts Point-149th Street, Parkchester and Pelham Bay Park, instead of having 6 express trains turning into Pelham Bay Locals after Parkchester. This would create less of a bottleneck around Parkchester and allow for more frequent service without slowdowns. Local riders that want to capture express service at the express train stops can transfer at those stations if they want express service. The only bottleneck would then be on the Manhattan bound side at 3rd ave-138th st as local and express service merge since the tunnel between 125th street and 138th st for the 6 is 2 track. The other instance where a bottleneck will occur with this are for express and local services merging right before Pelham Bay Park to terminate. In my time riding the 6 express/local, the difference is approximately 10-12 minutes. The fastest express section of trackage for the 6 is between Hunts Point and Parkchester where the trains reach nearly 50mph
@@jeffrienunez4557 he never mentioned closing
@@williamerazo3921 I meant to comment on the video. I didn’t realize I commented here
Nope
6 Express is right to end at Parkchester as it should
Barely anybody actually rides all the way from Pelham bay park and that’s pretty much asking for delays
The reason why the 6 runs so well is because most of the trains don’t end at Pelham bay park and quickly turn around at parkchester to quickly send back trains into Manhattan
Just because you look at a track map doesn’t mean the MTA doesn’t schedule trains to fit in and operate with little to no delays
And this actually works because the 6 is de-interlined as much as can be not having to share a track with no other line means the MTA has full control on when trains run
@@ninofromkitchennightmares1497 exactly
‘Nother upload from the god
Pelham Bay Park is not a proper terminal station to modern standards. A new modern terminal at CoOp City with tail tracks and fast speed switches to allow trains to come in at 15 mph and allow full express service between Manhattan and CoOp City
Exactly 💯% right because Pelham Bay park is a very busseoust line just like Main street Flushing I'm telling you Co op city mall would definitely be perfect for the 6 Pelham line to be extended to co op city mall because they gonna have the Connecticut metro North railroad going to Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city. I totally agree with him 100% Pelham Bay park is definitely over Crowding and it's dangerous waiting for the buses at late nights coming from work and back home 🏠.
As one who used to use the and still use it from time to time from Pelham Bay, that train has been a lifesaver for me. The situation with the 6 Train is one that will never change when it comes to what train should be an Express or Local but what can and should change is timers along the route. They’re way too slow and they either need to increase the speed or take them out entirely. I would also support putting in a new switch between St Lawerence & Parkchester and have the Locals terminate in the Express track during rush hours. Other than that, like what’s been said over here, “it is what it is”.
to be honest, let the 6 terminate on the express track at parkchester. They need to build a switch in between st lawrence & parkcester to it can switch on the express track & the express trains, switch over to the local or juss make westchester sq & express stop too
Do you ride the 6X past parkchester?
I think this is one of those, it is what it is situations. Many of those express stations are hubs where people are already getting off busses and have long commutes as it is. An extra 5 minutes per day is an another hour lost to a regular commuter a week, taking away the express service is a non starter.
As far as the other ideas, I don't see the MTA doing anything significant.
Great video as always.
Fun fact: There are 2 DeKalb’s, One being DeKalb Avenue Junction as you said in the video and DeKalb Avenue- Stanhope Street, The only train that runs on the DeKalb And Stanhope line is the L train, but the J train will run via the L line at times.
The 6X got nerfed! I think some timers need to be removed.
My favorite solution is the 6X terminating at Parkchester while the local terminates at Pelham.
CBTC elimates timers.
@@michaelscott7706 Yup!
CBTC eliminates timers, but it doesn't always increase the speeds of the trains. A great example is the , which actually slowed under CBTC operations.
What’s the evidence for that and cbtc does work for three tracks express and local services
@@MysticTransit I saw a video in 2019 where a 7X was traveling pass 69 street and it was doing 50. Now in 2023 it does 35-40 through there
As a 6 line rider.. the express is necessary… I don’t like the ghetto stops between
I lived in the Bronx up until 2019 and sometimes my Mom and I would use the six train and my dad too would also use it and there was this field trip that I had when I was younger and my dad told me he was coming and luckily he took the express so I recommend that the express is the best out of the whole entire six line
Those new signals they added back in '96-'97 made the speeds worse. Those two-shot timers act like one-shot signals. And believe it or not, the older lunar white one-shot signals cleared faster than what's there now. Those timer signals after Hunt's Point going downtown are the worst
First, I cannot be convinced that the express saves as little as 3 or 4 minutes. Tge rule of thumb I developer during 70 years riding NYC subways was that each lical stop adds about 3/4 of a minute to run time and, with 9 skipped stops, would expect the diamond 6 to shave about 7 minutes off the run.
Next, I don't understand why there's a problem. Crossing the locals and expresses should cause no more congestion than merging them, and these trains were sharing a track in Manhattan, so there is sufficient capacity at the crossover. Of course there's friction due the timing, but not cascading delays.
BTW, wouldn't the proposal to remerge the services to continue local to Pelham Bay Park generate at least the sane friction at Parkchester, plus the turnaround problems at Pelham, plus the expense of more not-particularly-needed extra operation?
I wonder if the capacuty of a single track for turning all those locals is being taxed.
Finally, I'll add that in those 70 years of riding, including many pre- and post-Chrystie trips through Dekalb Junction and Myrtle Junction [BTW, DeKalb Junction has been completely de-interlined; the current problem is with Myrtle, the interlocking that sorts trains onto the two sides of the Manhattan Bridge] the only place I have experienced consistent severe and cascading delays is on the southbound local track on the QBL entering Forest Hills.
My opinion is making 6 local end at parkcheaster and rush hour 6 end at pem bay park and 6 exp at parkcheaster
I think the MTA should make Pelham Bay Park a 3 track terminal and have train run express in the peak direction from 3 Ave 138 street to Pelham Bay Park stopping at Hunts Point and Parkchester and have (6) local trains run to Pelham Bay Park at all times.
I been in parkchester for 8 years since then trust me we need express trains so many people students everyone uses it if anything we need more 6 trains and if anything we should get another line to Manhattan from Parkchester
Don't take away the express train everything will be horribile
The Express 6 isn’t going anywhere!! People in Throgs Neck, Co-op City, Countryside, Buhre and other areas will never let that happen. I feel like the regular 6 was made to serve the hood in the Bronx between 138-Parkchester. The Express 6 serves the better neighborhoods in the Bronx.
Exactly 💯% right on that brother man . However the Pelham 6 line has to remain Express services and Local. I have a real spriital feeling that the 6 Pelham line is definitely gonna be extended to co op city mall I'm telling you. The would probably run the 10 trains to Thrid Avenue Elevated line between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx and Queens plaza connecting to the 7 N W trains. That's the reason why the R62AS has those higher numbers on them. They definitely need to focus on the extra iRT elevated lines. Leave the iND and the BMT lines alone because the B D trains have a long trip between 205 street Norwood Ave Bronx and Bedford park and Coney island stillwell and Brighton Beach 🏖️ and 145 street on the B trains. Let the Pelham 6 line to be extended to co op city. You have to remember the metro North railroad is definitely coming to Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city mall very soon.
The Pelham 6 line is definitely gonna be the hood when they exstend the 6 Pelham line to co op city mall. The 12 trains between Throggs neck village and Hunts point.
The Pelham 6 line is definitely gonna be the hood when they exstend the 6 Pelham line to co op city mall. The 12 trains between Throggs neck village and Hunts point.
This well needed...this express made it easier to live in parkchester!
I think the solution for Parkchester would be to convert Westchester Square-East Tremont Avenue into an express station. Remove the express tracks at Middletown Road and Buhre Avenue as they will not be needed.
Alternatively, if the 6 were to one day be extended to Co-Op City-Bay Plaza, Pelham Bay Park can be rebuilt into a 3-track station, and the express tracks at Buhre Avenue and Middletown Road can remain (With Westchester Square still being converted into an express station obv).
In addition to improving Pelham express service on the 6, I would also like to see Jerome Avenue express service on the 4 be implemented, and for the 3 to be extended to the Bronx to run along Jerome Avenue, up to Bedford Park Boulevard-Lehman College, although to do that, I would have 167th Street and Bedford Park Boulevard converted into express stations. The express tracks on Moshulu Parkway can be removed or used as storage tracks for terminating 3 trains.
In addition, Nereid Avenue on the 2 and 5 should be converted into an express station to serve as a proper terminus for rush hour 5 trains, and so that trains can skip stations along the White Plains Road line from East 180th Street to Nereid Avenue (Except Gun Hill Road, which is an express station).
How to improve train operations at the Parkchester #6 station - here are two ideas that were briefly mentioned in your video.
1) Re-vamp the station and track signal timers that slow train movements and operations - a program that was started by the previous NYC-Transit President from London
2) Configure the Parkchester #6 station to be either more like the F-train Kings Highway station, or a simplified version of the nearby #2 & #5 East 180th Street station - in both cases there are track switches both before and after the station platforms allowing trains to be switched to an open station platform, or to leave the station platforms and get switched to the proper track - in either direction.
Both of these suggestions would greatly improve the operations. The idea of elminating the #6 Pelham Bay Peak Direction Express and adding 5 minutes or more time traveling to the commuter's rides should be a non-starter of an idea - if you're really about improving transit.
More good. I takes a journey to get to midtown if it was all local. That’s why I like the skip stop service of the 1/9 and J/Z
A bigger issue for me personally is how the "5" White Plains Road Express just end abruptly at Gun Hill Road instead of continuing to 238 the Street as a local from there.
But the 6 Express Local configuration is fine.
The #6 benefits from the fact it can run very frequently, because 1) it is the only local 2) it runs in a very popular corridor in Manhattan and 3) it south Bronx section has a very low passenger ratio. And because of this unique setup, they can split the services.
Meanwhile, the #5 isn't so lucky, because it share it branch with at least two other lines. So any major changes will affect other services not related to the #5.
Also, the yard is on the White Plains Road Line, not the Dyre Avenue Line. So that's why there is a #5 service on White Plains Road. Or they have to run them empty from the 180th Street Yard.
The #6 biggest prize is that it has a yard after Parkchester. So trains heading to Manhattan can be feed from the yard. So the terminating train has more time to layup than your typical terminal station.
So anyone living on the #6 line has it better than anyone living on the #5 line.
To be honest, I don't really support the idea of service and we should probably just have the (6) Local. It may cause a few problems, but I don't really like the idea of 6 Express.
But then again, the MTA could go worse...
I'm looking at you Z train
Damn give the Z some love once in a while at least 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Only people who would have a problem with it are the people who don’t ride it daily
I'm guessing you don't actually use the 6 Express Train on a daily basis?
Yeah...
Honestly, as a former Soundview resident, I think a good solution is to not only extend the Pelham Express service to Pelham Bay Park, but to also convert the station into a typical express terminal station similar to Flushing-Main Street, granted that it will be expensive as shit. I was also thinking of converting Wakefield-241st Street into a similar express terminal station should the 5 rush-hour express continue operating express north of East 180th Street.
I used to live near Parkchester and the 6 train was just fine. I don’t recommend removing express.
As a train nerd, I forgot about the 6 line until “Pelham 123” came back to Netflix.
6 express needs to term at parkchester it’s Simple
For someone who takes the 1 train everyday from the Bronx to Manhattan I wonder if peak directional service is possible or is it truly not needed
it could be made possible but is very unlikely as it will decrease how many local trains will run per hour which can be a problem for commuters who live near local stations
I think it is possible but the only thing is, it would only benefit riders who board at Vancortlandt Park 242nd Street and Dyckman Street, since the stations on between are local. In 2005, the 9 line was retired but back when the 1 was operating with the 9, they ran skip stop service similar to the J and Z trains
Bring the11 trains to Thrid Avenue Elevated line between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave and Queens plaza connecting to the 7 N W trains where the 8 /10 trains were supposed to run if the Third Ave Elevated line was not even supposed to be tairing down in the first place. You know it was a crime to tair down the old Thrid Avenue Elevated line down.
@@malikrthr1 You are definitely doing the right thing is to fucus on the extra iRT elevated lines. Keep bringing up the second Ave Elevated line and the Thrid Avenue Elevated line also.
The (1) doesn't need Express service.
That's what I am saying. Regardless of local and express, speed limits can be raised.
I lived on castle hill ave and you had to catch an express regardless to get past parkchester because locals end at parkchester. I think they should send trains express all the way to pelham bay park and maybe that would help because the express would just go straight through and not have to cross over
they should put more trains on the Astoria express line. there are only a couple express trains per day and this would be good for people who need to connect to the 7 fast or just need to get into Manhattan
I dont really understand why this has to be such an issue, but maybe someone can explain it;
If I interpret the timetable correctly, the pattern is roughly as follows (in the moring rush hours): out of all the local 6 trains running towards Pelham, half terminate at Parkchester to return as a local, Manhattan-bound train, and the other half continue to Pelham to continue as an express Manhattan-bound train.
So why doesn't that leave enough time for the local trains terminating at Parkchester to get onto the middle track after the station, wait there for the next Manhattan-bound express train to pass (and switch to the middle track at Parkchester), and then go onto the local track at Parkchester immediately after the express train passes? There would be several minutes to spare before the next Express train comes around, right?
Tbh I like the idea at 5:36 that is good but can cause trains having to leave to terminal quicker and major delays for the mta
I find the Pelham Express services very GREAT!!!!
I have often wondered to what extent intensity of supervision and dedication to mission by operating personnel affects service quality. When rail fanning in places like Japan or Toronto we see employees hustling to fix door issues, change ends, communicate effectively with other personel and the public. Here, there seems more of a manana attitude. The starting gong rings, conducter is in position yet it takes two minutes for the train to leave. I often hear veteran transit professionals bemoan the lack of quality in the overall workforce at MTA properties. This problem is not a secret. I know that few jobs are easy, and much fault can be found with how things are run from the top. I am just saying that much is going on behind the scenes that is not visible to us as outside observers and receivers of anecdotes and gossip. I say that rather than invest hundreds of millions in infrastructure upgrades, much of the same benefit can be derived from investing in more training, incentives, modern HR practices and accountability.
Really enjoy your work
Much appreciated
Awesome I had a idea of diamond 6 going Lexington Avenue express and 9 going 7th Avenue express but it do sucks that it can’t go express from parkchester
I can’t stand the section of the N line when coming off the Manhattan Bridge and going down to my stop at 59th… Its way way too slow through there…
The should instead be extended to City Island-Rochelle Street, while the (6) should run to Pelham Bay Park. The & (8) should terminate at Parkchester. the run all local via the IRT Pelham Line, IRT Lexington Avenue Line, IRT Utica Avenue Line, & IRT Rockaway Elevated Line. The should run from Parkchester to Rockaway Park-Beach 105th Street, while the (8) should run from Parkchester to Flatlands Avenue. The local trains should have track switches added to allow for them to better weave around express trains, while stopping at every station. The express trains should also weave around the local trains. There are better options.
The eight and nine trains should come from dead,with the eight from co op city meeting with the six,then separate in Manhattan and go to Central Park east and terminal at Times Square and the nine train the Manhattan express will originate there and in the Bronx the third Avenue line comes back to gun hill road.
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 Let the 10 trains run between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx and Queens plaza connecting to the 7 11 N W trains. Let the 8 trains run through co op city and Throggs Neck Avenue village Bronx Elevated line. They definitely need a new iRT subway 🚇 line running to Hunts point and throggs Neck Avenue village Bronx Elevated line.
Hey @MysticTransit I wanna know your thoughts on my idea to make an IND Northern Blvd Line from Court Sq to Mets - Willets Point run by the G Train. It’s no secret that the IRT Flushing Line is an extremely overcrowded line and adding a train on Northern Blvd feels like it would relieve congestion from the IRT Flushing Line and give people who live in Jackson Hts a 2nd option As well as making it easier for people who live in East Elmhurst to get into the city. This idea can also relieve congestion from Citifield during baseball season since the 7 train would no longer be the only subway option in that area. The stops on this new train line will be: Queens Plaza(new platform), 39 St, 48 St, 54 St - Broadway (Transfer to M and R trains at Northern Blvd station), 71 St, 78 St, 87 St, Junction Blvd, 108 St, & then to turn south to terminate underground next to the 7 Train station of Mets - Willets Point. The reason I think the G train should run this new line is due to how short it already is. No exp service will be necessary for this new train line. Tell me your thoughts on this idea.
The G is a bad candidate for Northern Blvd, either a branch off of the 2nd Avenue Line, or my favorite, run a new crosstown subway along 50th Street, possibly connecting to Canarsie along 10th Ave, or going west into New Jersey.
@@TMC_BC "The G is a bad candidate" thats your opinion
@@St4rBoyRailfanning “that’s your opinion” is not a good argument lmao. You’re talking about making a proposal, these things matter in discussion.
@@TMC_BC even if my idea is a bad proposal extending any train line into new jersey is even worse since there is almost no way the MTA would consider that whatsoever
@@St4rBoyRailfanning Okay, but it’s good from a transit perspective. It was super close to happening after ARC failed, NJ agreed until it suddenly pulled out, and ARC was officially dead.
The possible solution is to have both 6 local and express service end @ Pelham Bay Park like how the 7 train to Main Street operates. In the am rush hour, all trains run local to the Middletown Road stop. From this point, trains can run local and express to 138 street-3rd Ave. And then have reverse service during the pm rush hours. This way if NIS trains have to go to and from the yard at Westchester Square, the express tracks can be used for NIS trains to and from Pelham Bay Park.
Main Street is 3 track terminus
@@williamerazo3921 ur right, that is the only difference between Pelham Bay Park and Main Street.
@@tombarzey7964 Another difference is that barely anybody gets on at Pelham bay
Most riders are from Westchester square or castle hill avenue hence why they start at Pelham bay and are local to parkchester
@@ninofromkitchennightmares1497 those 2 stops have a lot of businesses and schools in the area is most likely the reason for the high ridership.
For decades on the #7 line - there were three services on the #7 Flushing line - #7 locals from Main Street to Times Square, #7 peak direction expresses from Main Street to Times Square, and #7 locals from 111th Street to Times Square - with the same basic operation during the evening rush hours. In plain English - not ALL of the #7 Flushing local trains went to or originated from Main Street-Flushing! Even though the Manhattan of the #7 line is now 34th Street-Hudson Yards - the same basic operation remains to this day.
Simple reconfiguration of the switches would suffice.
Yup
Send the local out of the station first express follows after. The first switch would be express tracks to local tracks and then train length later local tracks to express
Physical and line interlining will always be the issue. Unless the junctions are fixed the lines that branch off the Manhattan/Brooklyn trunks will always suffer. Great proposal btw
What that has to do with this topic
Hello zeenoz, quick question: how do you feel about the ibx using light rail?
I'm not a big fan of it. I would've preferred it to be Conventional/Regional Rail for it to connect up to some of our existing rail lines (like the Northeast Corridor).
@@MysticTransit “the Northeast Corridor”
POV: Mystic using drugs while commenting on RUclips
@@TMC_BC yes it’s called through running it works in Tokyo
@@qjtvaddict I know, it just doesn’t work here. The thru-running lines should go into Manhattan, not onto IBX.
The Light Rail is fine for Brooklyn and Queens. However the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to come back. Use the 10 trains between Hunts point and throggs Neck Avenue Elevated line village The 6 definitely needs to be extended to co op city mall barto Bronx so this way they could definitely transfer to the Connecticut metro North railroad.
Regardless of the option taken the MTA should run the express trains on the centre track and not the outside track, and vice-versa for the local trains.
4:00 - Is that an R46 E train? No. Apparently not...
I actually love local service, as every local stop only allows trains to stop for a maximum of 2 minutes
Good Job on the video. Now do a video on 7 Local & 7 Express Service.
To be honest, the (7) is fine as it is. I don't think a video is necessary for it's Peak Direction service.
What was that (E) train doing outside?🤔
We need 6 exp beyond parkchester using center track
Make Pelham bay station a 4 track terminal and 2 tracks continue to orchard beach or to coop city to end stops?
Peak direction is fine. I really have no idea why the put the switches and the express when the express could use the center track. THERE IS A REASON THERE ARE TWO ISLAND PLATFORMS, PEOPLE!
The station layout isn’t logical.
Mystic, what do u think of the IBX being a light-rail?
Most of the stations passed by the express are deserted
All the blue collar workers that used these stops are gone with the industries that employed them
I strongly advocate that 6 trains - 🔴 locals & 🔷 expresses - be terminating at Pelham Bay Park with the locals on the east track & expresses on the west track in the afternoon/evening rush hour & rush hour & in the morning rush hour, the east track train goes to the express track & the west track train automatically goes into local track to Chambers Street-Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall or Bowling Green Manhattan. Also, give the express trains the advantage of entering Pelham Bay Park first as the East 177th Street-Parkchester station will be reduced to a short turn terminal akin to 3rd Avenue-East 138th Sheet alongside Hunts Point Avenue & allow 6 train peak directional expresses to beyond the latter to the former. I'd let the concurrent local & express trains leave Pelham Bay Park together in the morning rush hour & enter together in the afternoon/evening rush hour for the three minute dwell time
Morning rush hour:
Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall or Bowling Green 🔴-🔷-🔴🔷 Pelham Bay Park
Afternoon/evening rush hour:
Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall or Bowling Green 🔴🔷-🔷-🔴 Pelham Bay Park
Even more radical, alongside the current crossover to the east, build new crossovers on the west of the East 177th Street-Parkchester station just before it, much akin to the West 34th Street-Hudson Yards station for the 7 train or give East Tremont Avenue-Westchester Square the designation of opening/terminating station for 6 trains wanting to get the ball rolling or have said train put out of service at that point. Likewise for Middletown Road.
Solution: Send 8 Local to Throgs Neck and all peak 6s Express exress than local after Hunts point
The IRT should have a 8 train atp
@@NtGoat_AKA_Goatie What is ATP
@@transitimprover at this point
@@ohohflextra Okay. It would go to Throgs Neck
Throgs Neck is not a very valuable extension, especially if you keep express service. The built environment of the neighborhood is very hostile to transit, and to change it would take decades.
No one gonna talk about the R46 E at 3:58
This is how the switch should go = \_/=
Extend 6 to co op city and to Wakefield via bay Chester ave or 222 street
run local and express from Pelham Bay Park ..no more local to Parkchester..have them all run to Pelham Bay..saves on track switching...period!
ik this is off-topic but, HAS ANYONE SEEN R46 5632
Another solution is a grade separated interlocking like the one at DeKalb Avenue
bro a grade seperation wouldnt really speed up trains
De kalb junction needs fixing and cbtc
we dont talk about the r46 E tottaly
BUS SERVICE SYSTEM
I really think the second solution would be ideal. There are already select 6 trains out of Brooklyn Bridge weekday mornings from about 9:20 to about 10:40 that are express to East 177 Street after Hunts Point only to go out of service to the Pelham Yard north of Westchester Square. Select Pelham Bay Park 6 trains that would have gone Express after East 177 Street within that time now have to run Express after Hunts Point to 138 to then be local to Brooklyn Bridge. Honestly, the second solution flip would be good for consistency.